When the Stick of Joseph guys, the Ward Radio guys, and Dave Butler & Mike Day all get together is the best crossover since that time when the Power Rangers met the Ninja Turtles
I have read Leviticus many many times, and all I can say is that my mind was blown my understanding has exploded, and I can see the representation in the tomb as being the ark of the covenant I can see Jesus as the sacrificial lamb, and I can see Barabbas as the one that was allowed to go free. The symbolism is right on and absolutely amazing.. I want more❤❤❤
The Dueteronomists don't mention the urim and thummin because they found a dark stone in the bottom of a well and decided to use it instead for convenience.😅
I love this series. Dave Butler blows my mind all of the time. One comment, as a Sunday School teacher I have taught out of Leviticus. In 2022 Come Follow Me, three chapters of Leviticus are in the curriculum--1, 16, and 19. But the same lesson also has chapters from Exodus. Granted that isn't much. It has always been on us to read and study and learn on our own. It is a mistake to assume that it is on the Church to teach us things beyond how to live right, recognize the Spirit, and understand covenants.
To a point but it is also up to the church to help navigate into more restoration....so when do they step in and give the more and when is it incumbent on us to understand what we have until they provide the more. There is a responsibility on both sides ....which is why prophets like mosiah have given their sermons and teachings to ensure that their garments are spotless having given their all to teach all that they can. So much more is coming up in archaeology....it seems that more is imminent...but we will have to wait for their direction on what and when
@@davidmickelle7326President Nelson has definitely told us that it is our responsibility to learn and read and pray and listen. If the Spirit is telling me to read specific scripture, I need to read and pray for understanding.
@@Famr4evr not saying he didn't and that we shouldn't...but when it comes to doctrinal restoration that is not an individual's role to define...we can receive and need to receive all kinds of insights and revelations however their relevance is our lives only and when and what we share over the pulpit and in Sunday school is not necessarily all that we have been shown...that is until the prophets also declare it over the pulpit. So there are limitations to what we can share based on what has been restored through Prophetic Revelation and not just our own personal prophetic revelation.
@davidmickelle7326 Agree! I have been learning a lot about hesed/חסד and its relationship to covenants and such for the past like six months through books, lectures, and essays about how it might possibly be the word behind “covenant” in the Book of Mormon, and was itching to share with people, but hesitant to make any grand conclusions about anything (I had started wondering if, because it’s a covenant term, it is also related to sealings), and then I was listening to the Josh Sears episodes of Follow Him and HE brought up hesed, and then he mentioned that President Nelson had taught in 2022 that hesed is the new and everlasting covenant and then I was like YES!! Share away with confidence!! And then I was assigned the topic of the third article of faith for sacrament meeting a couple weeks later and was like, “ugh, obedience…. Wait! Hesed has to do with our oridinances!!!” It was all very serendipitous! God is great like that 😊 For something like, this, though (basically flipping the OT on its head…) I feel we will be waiting a while before (if..) any official affirmations come out. But no harm in exploring theology as long as we keep in mind theology is NOT the same as doctrine!
First CZcams comment ever... Nearly every time I leave church on Sunday my wife asks, how was class? And I say, it was good but I'm frustrated because I feel like everyone missed what the scripture was teaching. This episode and many of your other material, challenges me in the way I thirst.
Sunday Gospel Doctrine is supposed to be simple enough for even the weakest members, the newest members, and any visitors to feel the spirit and understand. The meat is for us to learn on our own, as we do when we read, study, pray, and watch these amazing videos. Teaching Gospel truths has to be kept simple. This does make it hard to find fellow deep seekers who are all on the same page. Having said this, I believe we are all eventually going to get there in time. We have to have great sound understanding when Christ returns. We really need to know the doctrine so much better than on that simple level. Time is running out, for sure, not only for repentance, but to learn all we can and act on what we have learned. It must increase our devotion, our dedication, our temple attendance, our repentance, faith, etc. With great knowledge comes great power if it is applied properly and allows us to become more like The Savior.
Cardon's skepticism about the ark of the covenant parallel is answered with one principle. Things and places become holy when they come into contact with the Holy One and His ordinances. The ordinances are where the power of God is made manifest. (D&C 84:20-21)
I was just thinking that the stone being rolled away is like the veil being parted, so people can see into the Holy of Holies! Then you see inside the ark as it is with two angels as the cherubim.
I like what you say about the Book of Mormon. When you know that the Book of Mormon is true, you have to reinterpret and relativize your understanding of the Bible to what the Book of Mormon says. The same thing happened with Paul. When he came to a testimony of Jesus, he had to go back and re read the scriptures with the lens of his testimony of Jesus Christ and reinterpret a lot of what he understood before.
Yahweh created Satan. Ezekiel 28. Yahweh in a flesh tabernacle has a name and that is Jesus. Jesus is eternal and everything was created by him, through him and for him. Jesus is God. Satan , as a rebellious created created spirit; an Angel (numbers 22, Matthew 4, Luke 22, Job 1) destroys of his own free will, which he chose but is obedient to the word of Yahweh.
I do remember that the reforms of King Joshiah lead the campaign of removing messianic references of Christ from the OT texts. These weren't small things removed from the OT, these were Plain and Precious Truths.
Margaret Barker spoke of the Deuteronomists in the same terms in a speech at The Library of Congress as contained in the book, The Worlds of Joseph Smith. She even specifically mentioned this may be at least part of the, "plain and precious things" taken out of the scriptures that The Book of Mormon tells us.
The Sacrifice of the Two Goats: The two goats were required to look exactly alike (just like they were twins). There is a type and shadow for this, with the twins Jacob and Esau-both nations were struggling in Rebecca’s womb about to be born. In the womb (in the pre-existence) they wrestled with each other over which one would be the firstborn and thus covenant son. Brothers-Jehovah and Lucifer in the pre-existence struggle to be the covenant son. While Rebecca was in labor pains, a leg came out, and the midwife, wrapped a red thread around it, but then, it went back in, and the other child came out. When Jacob came out he had a hold of Esau’s heel. So which son would become the covenant son? The one with the red thread? It was Rebecca’s decision to decide. She acting as priestess. Speaking of the two goats… The high priest determined which goat was dedicated to the Lord (Yahweh who was without sin to make a covering) and which one would be labeled the scapegoat (for Azazel-Satan) all the sins of Israel would be placed on it’s head. The high priest would wrap a red thread around the scapegoat and sent it away free. Then the priest would tie another red thread on the door of the temple. The scapegoat would run into the mountains and eventually throw itself off the cliff to its death. The priest would sacrifice the covenant goat and wait for the thread on the temple door to turn from red to white. When it was white, he knew Israel’s sins were forgiven, and the scapegoat was dead. This is the meaning of “though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18) Isaiah 1:1820 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Esau was the firstborn, however, he married out of the covenant and therefore disqualified himself from receiving the birthright. He also had no respect for the covenant and sold it to his brother on a whim. Rebecca decided that Jacob was to be the covenant son, even though Isaac wanted Esau to receive it. Isaac told Esau to go hunt and bring back meat and make him some stew and then he would give him the covenant blessing. Rebecca heard this and so she told Jacob to go out and get two goats….which she then killed. Rebecca told Jacob what to do and whatever sin would be placed upon her head. She made the stew for Isaac and then “made a covering” of skin (wool) to “cover over” Jacob’s arm (to make Isaac think it was hairy Esau). The Atonement of the Lamb of God “covers over” our sins. Jacob received the birthright. Esau came home ready to receive it, but Isaac, had rightfully already given it to Jacob.
13:56 elder holland references Barrabas name son of the father and picking one of the two to release by Pilate. Very neat. One of my favorite talks by Elder Holland.
This group should do a come follow me channel together, take us through the entire 4 standard works, pulling in all your knowledge of various languages, translations, apocraphal correlations, etc. Etc. I want to hear it ALL... such good stuff!!!!
Another great video. I love seeing these men of faith together. Looking forward to more of this, but also want to see some more Jacob Hansen and Luke Hansen and Jonah Barnes videos. Mike Day, David Butler, Jackson Paul… this stuff is awesome!
It seems like it all the reforms were more to centralize power and authority. ‘Forget all those times Jacob and Moses spoke with God face to face (or touched him! God doesn’t have a body, Jacob didn’t actually wrestle God). No one can talk to God except the authorized priests, in the only official temple, in Jerusalem. No one can see God. God has no body. God has no children. Forget what it says in Psalms 86 about a council of gods and “ye are gods.” Only the priests have the ability to commune with God. God will never have a body. Forget all that stuff in Genesis about being made in His image. Heck, forget that “Elohim” is plural! And forget that “Shaddai” is related to “breasts/שדיים/shaddaim” (as “El Shaddai/אל שדי” translates as God of the Mountains (mountains=הרים) but is most often translated as “God Almighty” in the Bible because the word meaning “to overpower/שדד/shadad” is, fortunately for the scribes, close enough to the word for “breasts/shadaim/שדיים). And all sacrifices are TO God, to appease Him because we sin, not to remind us that we know the Son will come down to save us from sin. The sacrifices are not AS God, only TO God. Forget all that, there’s only one God, and He has neither gender nor body nor children, and humans are but mere creatures and not children. And only the priests are allowed to have anything to do with God.’ Not unlike the councils to formalize doctrine to cease infighting (and therefore more easily control the populace), the death of the belief in premortality (6th century under emperor Julian..?), along with a loss of the belief (in the West, anyway) in theosis/divinization/exaltation (the Eastern Orthodox branches never forgot that bit of doctrine, or that marriage is eternal). History repeats!
I’m so grateful for the Restoration of Christ’s church. For the restoration of the priesthood keys, and that we have temple so we can make covenants and do the work for our ancestors. What a blessing from our Father in Heaven.
John seems to have been saying everything possible to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Holy Son of God. Therefore, these claims do not seem implausible in the least. Thanks to these good brothers for sharing their insights.
Those guys were just wrong when they said we didn’t learn about Leviticus and the feast of the Atonement in Sunday School. I remember teaching it. It was the May 2-8 lesson. We may not have taught his theory about the connection with the Gospel of John. But I think there’s a good reason not to teach academic theories as fact. They’re interesting and fun to listen to in settings like Ward Radio. But academic theories - and even academic consensus - can and do change.
The Church’s responsibility is to SUPPORT us in our gospel study and be a RESOURCE in teaching our family. This is why we have been given Come Follow Me to teach in our family. Ultimately our personal study to attain knowledge cannot be replaced by being hand-fed in Sunday School. The members of the class show how much personal study they do by the comments they make in class-no matter if they are seasoned members or new converts.
Dave Butler and Mike Day have it going on. The whole ark thing and the tomb was very very cool. I don't think it was a stretch to say John was making a connection to the ark for those that have ears to hear.
My two bits on the Sunday School rant. I've been in Come Follow Me groups who would eat this fat of the gospel. But I've also been in groups with new converts still on milk, people with simple cognitive functions, or adults still learning how to read, and ya gotta keep them in mind too with lesson prep. If someone wants to learn beyond the Sunday schol lesson, it's their own responsibility, not the church's.
Cardon, John 18:3 tells you why they fell down: ..."a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharacees..." These were devout Temple Guards and officers.They would have been as devout as can be. Their falling would have been almost reflexive to hearing "The Name" in this highly charged atmosphere.
Could the stone being rolled away be symbolic of the waters gushing forth from the Well of Souls, flowing like unto a river which is representative of the love of God as Nephi and Lehi saw?
Exodus 25:18-20. The angels surrounding the mercy seat where (Leviticus 16) the blood of the bullock and the goat was sprinkled. John 20:12. Types and shadows...
Idk that yall even read these comments, but on this very topic of the brass plates being different. Nephi, jacob, enos, all obtained the plates. They also had to learn "the language of our fathers". The first mention of language was from the tower of babel. Same tower that the jaredites came from. I believe that the brass plates contained writings from the original language. Also note that lehi didnt gift the plates to his firstborn. Nephi didnt even give them to any of his kids. Typically, old jews would gift such a thing as a birthright to their oldest son. It seems to me that nephi didnt have any kids worthy enough to pass the plates to so he gave them to his brother Jacob.
This topic is relevant at this time. Going to have to watch it again so I can digest all the information presented, but can’t wait for episode 3, and 4 and 5 and 6. Awesome guys.
We believe that Christ learned line upon line precept upon precept. Being "unchangeable" does not preclude going through an experience similar to our own and growing to become like Heavenly Father in stature and majesty. If God did that and Christ did that and they have invited us to do that, then "unchangeable" must refer to some other aspect of their being that does not change. Perhaps their spiritual nature perhaps certain attributes that they have. I will suggest you consider what those aspects might be and study further.
The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow is referring to the consistency in who he is from everlasting to everlasting. For example, some people get slim or gain weight, suffer some sort physical ailment, but they are nice, giving, caring, or a loving person. This same person can become the total opposite of who they are because of a new experience. We can change personalities, gain new knowledge, etc. God on the other hand remains the same. A wishy washy God is not a god you can believe in. Hope this makes sense
It is simple really. God was not God in the beginning, he had not attained that title, that exaltation. Once he had attained that title of God and became perfect and exalted then comes the what you are referring to, being unchangeable. Consistent, trustworthy
this is all fascinating. I have questions, Mike mentioned a sacred embrace between mary and christ, I see nothing to indicate that in John, infact He says" touch me not" Jn 20:17 Also I believe david metioned that in the tomb, where Christ laid represented the Ark of the Covenant. and said that christ had ascended and sat on the throne of God. Yet in John 20:17 he tells Mary he had not as yet. Explain
So I think Jonah needs to listen to Jack Logan Ancient Traditions. She has only 4 on CZcams so most of her podcasts are on her website. She studies all the ancient religions and points that all ancient religions come from one central religion which consisted of Temple rights. Everything she talks about connects to all we believe about the Temple. Her podcasts are amazing and I’ve only listened to 3!!!!!! It would be fascinating to see how his knowledge with apocryphal text and what she shares connects. Same with David. I wonder if he has heard of her podcasts.
Also, have you guys ever heard Ron Wyatt's stuff regarding the ark of the covenant being hidden beneath golgotha, and when Christ died the earth was rent, a crack in the rocky hill split down from the base of the cross allowing a trickle of blood from Christ on the cross to drip onto the ark of the covenant, aka mercy seat. Interesting stuff
Mike Day! 24:56 you mention the sacred embrace between Mary and Christ, is that connected to the old 5 point embrace that's no longer practiced in our temples?
I understand why Sunday School needs to keep things basic. What they should do is bring back School of the Prophets in each Stake, or make it part of the CES but available in each Stake, where those who want a deeper dive can go.
Keep in mind Joseph never felt like he was “done” with the KJV. I mean, compare the creation account given in Moses (basically the JST of Genesis, which was done before Joseph took any Hebrew lessons) to the one in Abraham. Key differences! (We see “times” rather than “day,” and where in Genesis and Moses “God” is singular, it is very clearly plural in Abraham). I also don’t know that he had been made aware of Heavenly Mother the first time he took a crack at the KJV. I don’t think he had in any clear way, yet. Anyway, things to keep in mind!
@@gingersnaps215 What about the translation of the Book of Mormon makes you think that he needed Hebrew lessons to get the JST right? He never sat down with books on Egyptian to translate the Book of Mormon. Likewise, he never sat down with books on Hebrew or even the Hebrew Bible to do the JST.
@@andrewbfrost7021 I’m saying his mind was expanded by the knowledge he gained from learning Hebrew. In the King Follett discourse (the version as recorded by Wilford Woodruff) he mentions how the German Bible translates the name of the son of Zebedee more accurately than the English (Jacob, rather than James -James is an anglicized version of the Greek version of the Hebrew Ya’akov). Was he inspired to change the name of James to Jacob in his first pass at the KJV? Nope. He also mentions how the word in Genesis translated as “created” is more accurately translated as “organized” (In the beginning God created the world, etc etc). Did he make that change in his first pass at the KJV? Nope. Did he finish (or even start..?) a second pass before he died? Nope. I’m not sure how tight or loose the translation process of the Book of Mormon was, but I know it required effort and thought on the part of the translator, or else Oliver would have been more easily able to do it. I don’t think it was just shown in written form the entire way through (with the exception of names spelled specifically, like Coriantumr; there’s apparently a crossed out misspelling of that name in the JSP manuscripts); it seems the translator had to study it out and select the best wording at the time. Maybe after Joseph had settled on language/a word, then it would appear in writing? Who knows! I have never “seen” like that, though I have had “here’s what to say” kind of inspirations (though it didn’t come out of my mouth exactly the same as it felt in my brain, if that makes sense). Here a little, and there a little, line upon line. That’s all I am saying.
@@gingersnaps215 I think understand what you are saying. Do you think that the Book of Mormon would be different if he had translated it again in the Nauvoo period and if he had taken some Egyptian? I’m not trying to be rude(it probably sounds like I am over text). I’m just trying to clarify the issue and my own thoughts. If not, why do you think the translation process was full and far more precise for the Book of Mormon, but quite spotty for the Bible, God knowing that Joseph would never live to go through it again? He certainly felt that it was an important mandate from the Lord to do.
@@andrewbfrost7021 Didn’t Brigham say if the Book of Mormon had been translated again it would most likely have different wording? I’m sure the “after all you can do” phrase would be more clear for 21st century minds, at least! (If you look at other 19th century writing, it seems that phrase was understood as “despite all”). I’m not saying I don’t think what we have, as we have it, neither was nor is important. But there have been minor revisions over the years (usually just grammar and word choices, nothing majorly huge). I wonder if the Divine Feminine might have been more apparent, beyond the little hint we get in Nephi’s vision that Mary is the mother of the Son of God *after the manner of the flesh* (Val Larsen seems to think that the Mother - and the Father and Son- is mentioned in the Book of Mormon in the epithet “Lord God Almighty” since in the Hebrew Bible that epithet is “Jehovah El Shaddai,” and we understand Jehovah to be Jesus, El to be the Father, and Shaddai *might* be the mother since “shaddai” in Hebrew is שדי and is *awfully close* to the word for “breasts” (shaddaim/שדיים) and conveniently close to the word meaning “to overpower” (shadad/שדד). I wonder about things like that.
The Deuteronomist movement gives a lot of context to the various trials prophets are put through. Abinadi, Alma and Amulek, they all question around this idea of a humble self sacrificing Messiah utilizing their questioning to trap and ensnare so they can kill due to blasphemy. If it weren't for the Deuteronomist themes...these entrapments just seem like they're ignorant lumpkins not having any real sophistication just people too foolish to understand the gospel. But if it's looked at from a Deuteronomist/Josiah kill all visionaries entrapment scenario it takes on a different hue.
Latter-Day Watch wants to do a collab with others on May 1st about Christ’s Grace. You guys have clout. Please pass it on to others. Correct the Evangelists misdirections about our beliefs. Thanks!
What are the specific misdirections? No archaeology from any reputable university to support BOM? Different gospel between Bible and DC? Joseph's shady history with treasure digging and seer stones? Church lying about Jospeh's polygamy but then admitting it? What exactly are you referring to?
@@CelestialComrades I always wonder about why DC132 is STILL in the official canon of the mormon church? Based on what is written in DC 132 verse 63, the three purposes for plural marriage are: 1) to multiply and replenish the earth 2) to fulfill a promise 3) for exaltation in the eternal worlds So it says explicitly in D&C 132:63 that plural marriage is a requirement for "exaltation in the eternal worlds". Why, then, doesn't the modern LDS church continue to teach this? Has the modern LDS church fell into apostasy? ALSO, Verse 54 says Emma will be 'destroyed' unless she participates in plural marriage. That's not very encouraging words for monogamous couples who want to be exalted.
@@kevinedward-jt2vs That part D&C 132 can't be interpreted as polygamy is required to enter exaltation because Adam had only one wife and he was exalted, the rest is still correct
The idea about people falling when Jesus’ name was said: The laws of nature causes “Every knee to bend and every tongue to confess that Jesus is the Christ.” (Philippians 2:19-11; Romans 14:11) A person’s mind may not accept or know that Jesus is the Christ-in order for them to choose to fall down and confess. But that person’s physical body…..knows who the Creator is. Our body is organized from earthly element and that element immediately knows and obeys the Creator. The fact that these people fell when Jesus’ name was said….shows that their bodies were witnessing that He was in fact the Great I am. Romans 14:11-12 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Philippians 2:10-11 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It is my understanding, that there are two “Ark of the Covenants.” There are two thrones-the one on earth (in the Holy of Holies) which was constructed after the one which is in heaven. The golden box in the Old Testament was a replica of the heavenly Ark that God sits upon. Isaiah tells us that the throne in heaven is flanked by two living seraphim, who cry, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah 6:1-4 1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
22:12 Cardons missing the whole point, its a symbol, it's not the actual ark. The Ark is where God sits, it's his chariot throne, within the holy of holies. It is interesting because there were also temple workers within the holy of holies that were referred too as angels.
Smart Old Testament lovers, this is all great stuff anything to help defend the Bom and Jesus is needed. I was challenged with this and would love some input DEUTERO-ISAIAH Problem (as it relates to the Book of Mormon), Isaiah chapters: Ch. 1-39 1st/Proto-Isaiah, in Jerusalem, Nephi left with brass plates, author believe Israel can’t be conquered Ch. 40-55 2nd/Deutero-Isaiah, 587bc captivity/exiled to Babylon, anyonymous author, Ch. 56-66 3rd/Trito-Isaiah , back in Jerusalem, another anonymous author. Scholarly consensus is that Isaiah chapters 40-46 were not written by 8th century Isaiah son of Amoz, but were written by others after the Jews were “destroyed around 587BC just after Lehi left town with the brass plates. Therefore, Nephi could have only had chapters 1-39, but problematically he quotes deuteron-Isaiah chapters which had not yet been written from his brass plates into the Book of Mormon. He quotes it in King James Version style and includes KJV errors. efore getting to Isaiah 53 (the suffering servant) let me first do an easier one to demonstrate: Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” Was it fulfilled in Jesus? As described by Matthew 1:22-23 “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, [23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”?
In 740 BC Ahaz, king of Judah, was being attacked and threatened with invasion by both Syria and Israel. Ahaz was alarmed. Rather than seek the Lord he sought Assyria’s help. Isaiah the prophet comes in to reassure the king “fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands (Syria & Israel) verse 4. The Lord says to not to worry, Judah will be delivered from enemies in verse 7 “It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.” Isaiah through God offers a sign to explain just how quickly this will be over, in verse 14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” . The child is an object to measure how much time (very little) it will take for the kings of Syria and Israel to change their mind and leave the land. The child Immanuel begins to grow up but before he is even mature enough to understand how to choose, Judah’s the enemies will back down. “For BEFORE the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings” In the next chapter Isiah 8:8 a Immanuel is alive during Ahaz’s continued reign. Furthermore, when Matthew was quoting Isaiah he was using his greek copy of Isaiah. The greek used the word (παρθένος Parthenos) for virgin but, in fact, Isaiah was written originally in Hebrew which used the word (הָעַלְמָ֗ה Ha-al-mah) which means “young woman” not necessarily a virgin. Matthew so badly wants Jesus to be fulfilling this scripture that he is grapping anything in the Old Testament that relates to Jesus’ life and saying “look it’s fulfilled in Jesus!” One more example: Jesus fled to Egypt during Herod ,Matthew 2:15 “And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” This is a reference to Hosea 11:1 “called my son out of Egypt.” But this can’t be a prophecy of a future Jesus because it has already happened as explained in the first part of the verse where Yahweh called the nation of Israel (his child) out of Egypt “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”
AT 2:50 - Re: Mormons believe Christ is the brother of Satan. - You have to remember that Christians who believe in the Trinity see Christ as another aspect/face of God, not a separate entity who has goals and aspirations and levels of love for us equal to those of Heavenly Father. Again, it all goes back to needing to know the nature of God. BTW, King Josiah "discovering" a new scroll in the temple (early version of Deuteronomy) telling the people that they needed to consolidate all worship into activities at the Jerusalem Temple is very convenient for the Saducees, who controlled the Temple and all of the offerings made there. It makes a person wonder if Josiah's (640BCE - 609BCE) actions weren't the final straw that brought about the Babylonian invasion. Just thinking.
The Holy Trinity is 3 Persons of one Godly Essence. Each Person is fully the one God, but not the other Person. Christ Himself is fully man and fully God, two natures unmingled and inseparable. To say that He is an aspect/face of God would be to say God changes modes, which is Modalism, not Trinitarian.
The old temple scroll was found after all the scriptures had been burned for some time. King Josiah’s grandfather, King Manasseh, ordered all the scriptures to be brought forth to be burned. Manasseh put idols in the temple and the high places and forced the people to bow down to them. King Josiah was attempting to salvage the evil that his grandfather and father did. However, the judgements had already been cast, and Josiah’s attempt only gave Israel a little more time, but then after Josiah, it all went down hill again. Josiah seemed to take after his great grandfather, King Hezekiah. Both were considered “good kings” (compared to the wicked kings). But they also made mistakes by attempting to “right the ship” so to speak. Kings are not prophets and they overstepped their authority. During Heziekiah’s day, Isaiah was the prophet and he didn’t always agree with the king’s tactics.
Leviticus 16 says the sins of the people were atoned for. Which people? All people all over the world? No. It was for the sins of God's people Israel which the atonement was for. Why then would it be any different with Jesus' atonement? He was sent to Israel, specifically the lost sheep of the House of Israel. He didn't come to redeem any other people.
The church is trying to correlate lessons for people who have been members for 2 weeks. They made that decision back in the 70s when the church was growing fast and there were lots of new members and we didn't want to overwhelm anyone.
Can see the natural man temptation show up when we start to say "the church" (The Prophet, and by turn Christ) should "do things this way, we know better than they do", same sin of Adam and Eve. Loved this episode. Great parallels I hadn't ever seen before. I'm happy to learn these things here and then share them in Sunday School when it's appropriate.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. - Psalm 90:2 1. lasting or enduring through all time : ETERNAL (Merriam-Webster). How would LDS interpret this? She it be interpreted from beginning and forever to beginning and forever? How many of you have heard those words being used in that context today? Is Jesus not created? Isaih 44:24 God spread out the earth by himself? 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:3 I guess this excludes the Father from creation? monogenés: only begotten properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" - literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind). - Strongs Greek.
the goats were not named "Yahweh" and "Azazel". SMH. These 2 unnamed goats were for 2 deities. YHWH, the God of Israel and the other lesser deity named Azazel. See Leviticus 16:7-10.
Jesus The Christ is not who He was when Lucifer was removed. Lucifer is no longer the same being, either. They were, but no longer are. The First Presidency has told us not to refer to Christ as our brother in the past. The Book of Mormon says Christ is The Father.
Christ is the Father of the church. We become His children when we are baptized into the church (that’s my understanding). Christ = Father of congregants, church/Zion = mother. Satan = father of the world, Babylon = mother of the world (the great whore of Babylon, and all that). The Book of Mormon doesn’t know trinitarian theology or formulas, but does know how unified the Father and Son are, and so what one does it is the same as if it had been done by the other. Kerry Muhlstein goes into that seemingly trinitarian bit of the Book of Mormon on his episodes of Follow Him, Jared Halverson offers his interpretations in the first season of Unshaken (I’m unsure if he does the same in the current season as I haven’t listened to it).
@@gingersnaps215 While I love my LDS brothers and sisters, the Bible teaches the Trinity. The problem is that the LDS interprets scripture differently. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. - Psalm 90:2 It's very difficult to interpret this as God having a beginning. The Greek definition of everlasting means eternal. It's not like this passage is saying in the context of, "everlasting peace." How can God be from everlasting? I know the LDS believes Jesus is the creator. John 1:3 says so. Then there's Isiah 44:24 where it is God alone that creates the earth. So Jesus is not under the direction of the Father? By himself? Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 Corinthians 3:17 The spirit is also called Lord? Who Prays to the LORD in the name of the spirit? And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2 Why is the spirit there? What's the purpose. Is it a part of creation also?
@@adamkaine2714 well, can I ask you then, as a Catholic, what is your understanding of the embodiment of Christ? Does Christ retain his resurrected body currently, or is He all spirit? I ask because I have heard conflicting things from Catholics and Protestants alike.
@@gingersnaps215 I'm not Catholic. Why would you assume that? I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't subscribe to a denomination. I do believe that Jesus retains his body. Jesus ascended into heaven with a body. He told Thomas to touch him. We received a new body when we die. But God the Father has no body, nor does the spirit. Read 1 Timothy 1:17 Also no man has seen God at anytime. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. - John 1:18 Anytime covers all of time. Therefore, how can you know he has a body? Jacob wrestling with the angel does not change that, unless Genesis is a contradiction?
@@adamkaine2714 ha! Sorry I swear I read “Catholic” in your first response. Brain flub! My question then, is how do you rectify the trinitarian belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct beings of *one substance* if you believe Jesus still has a body? That is what the doctrine of the Trinity states, yes? Distinct beings, but of one substance?
OPEN YOUR EYES! Jesus warned against people paying more attention to the outside of the cup, while leaving the inside of the cup dirty. Jesus doesn't care about your outward ceremonies and symbols. Jesus DOES care if you have come to see you cannot be good enough to be a god, but instead will trust with your heart ALONE in HIS loving atonement for ALL your sins! He cares more if you truly are bowing your spirit to HIS humble, loving Lordship as the one and only God! Only THEN does He make you his living temple, and then start doing rennovations in your life from the inside to the outside.
@@jonahbarnes5841 You make my point. You are more concerned with the outward appearance of the "thumbnail" than what is really going on inside. The "jesus" that mormons talk about is not the Jesus of the Bible. The mormon jesus is concerned with commanding men to commit celestial polygamy. The biblical Jesus calls a person to come directly to Himself to be saved by a personal relationship with Him through HIS loving atonement for their sins, and HIS subsequent resurrection to Lordship. The Biblical Jesus makes you HIS living temple. The mormon jesus makes you trust in a dead brick temple.
Kevin, as you're bowing your spirit to HIS, read Mark 9 and then take a look at your intolerance and start practicing the renovation in your life. Learning of Jesus is always good! If it is us worshiping through our christian music before our service, or learning through CZcams video we grow closer to Jesus.
@@MJ-pt2jp My point is that Jesus doesn't care about your outward ceremonies and symbols (as he clearly says in scripture). Ceremonies don't save anyone. Temples don't save anyone. Jesus didn't tolerate the Jews hypocrisy, and He won't tolerate mormon lies. What am I saying, except that unless a person comes directly to Jesus with their heart trusting alone in HIS atonement and Lordship, then they will not enter into the kingdom of God. Rom 10, John 3. READ THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, and ask THAT Jesus who He is.
@@kevinedward-jt2vsgosh I’m so tired of seeing the wrong Jesus line! We don’t deliberately and aggressively come after you even though we believe you’ve been deceived. I appreciate your passion but unless you can point to an example of when Christ himself came down and revealed to you or someone that we are worshiping the wrong Jesus then please stop this nonsense! If Jesus didn’t care about temples or ceremonies or symbols then why would he command men to participate/learn from/build them?
This is what Scripture study looks like. If you're ok with linking Isaiah to Jesus, nothing that was said in this episode is that much of a stretch. I actualy think Dave Butler and Mike Day are on to something real and I'm also on board with the Sunday School ideas. I think this model is so watered down that the classes are way too superficial on the doctrine.
When the Stick of Joseph guys, the Ward Radio guys, and Dave Butler & Mike Day all get together is the best crossover since that time when the Power Rangers met the Ninja Turtles
Capped!
😂
Wish Sunday School was this deep and challenging!! Ya’ll have me hungry for more, please.🙏
I love the symbolism of the angels in the tomb 💕💕💕👍👍👍
I have read Leviticus many many times, and all I can say is that my mind was blown my understanding has exploded, and I can see the representation in the tomb as being the ark of the covenant I can see Jesus as the sacrificial lamb, and I can see Barabbas as the one that was allowed to go free. The symbolism is right on and absolutely amazing.. I want more❤❤❤
Give us more!!
The Dueteronomists don't mention the urim and thummin because they found a dark stone in the bottom of a well and decided to use it instead for convenience.😅
I love this series. Dave Butler blows my mind all of the time. One comment, as a Sunday School teacher I have taught out of Leviticus. In 2022 Come Follow Me, three chapters of Leviticus are in the curriculum--1, 16, and 19. But the same lesson also has chapters from Exodus.
Granted that isn't much. It has always been on us to read and study and learn on our own. It is a mistake to assume that it is on the Church to teach us things beyond how to live right, recognize the Spirit, and understand covenants.
To a point but it is also up to the church to help navigate into more restoration....so when do they step in and give the more and when is it incumbent on us to understand what we have until they provide the more. There is a responsibility on both sides ....which is why prophets like mosiah have given their sermons and teachings to ensure that their garments are spotless having given their all to teach all that they can. So much more is coming up in archaeology....it seems that more is imminent...but we will have to wait for their direction on what and when
@@davidmickelle7326President Nelson has definitely told us that it is our responsibility to learn and read and pray and listen. If the Spirit is telling me to read specific scripture, I need to read and pray for understanding.
@@Famr4evr not saying he didn't and that we shouldn't...but when it comes to doctrinal restoration that is not an individual's role to define...we can receive and need to receive all kinds of insights and revelations however their relevance is our lives only and when and what we share over the pulpit and in Sunday school is not necessarily all that we have been shown...that is until the prophets also declare it over the pulpit. So there are limitations to what we can share based on what has been restored through Prophetic Revelation and not just our own personal prophetic revelation.
@davidmickelle7326 Agree! I have been learning a lot about hesed/חסד and its relationship to covenants and such for the past like six months through books, lectures, and essays about how it might possibly be the word behind “covenant” in the Book of Mormon, and was itching to share with people, but hesitant to make any grand conclusions about anything (I had started wondering if, because it’s a covenant term, it is also related to sealings), and then I was listening to the Josh Sears episodes of Follow Him and HE brought up hesed, and then he mentioned that President Nelson had taught in 2022 that hesed is the new and everlasting covenant and then I was like YES!! Share away with confidence!!
And then I was assigned the topic of the third article of faith for sacrament meeting a couple weeks later and was like, “ugh, obedience…. Wait! Hesed has to do with our oridinances!!!” It was all very serendipitous! God is great like that 😊
For something like, this, though (basically flipping the OT on its head…) I feel we will be waiting a while before (if..) any official affirmations come out. But no harm in exploring theology as long as we keep in mind theology is NOT the same as doctrine!
First CZcams comment ever... Nearly every time I leave church on Sunday my wife asks, how was class? And I say, it was good but I'm frustrated because I feel like everyone missed what the scripture was teaching. This episode and many of your other material, challenges me in the way I thirst.
Sunday Gospel Doctrine is supposed to be simple enough for even the weakest members, the newest members, and any visitors to feel the spirit and understand. The meat is for us to learn on our own, as we do when we read, study, pray, and watch these amazing videos. Teaching Gospel truths has to be kept simple. This does make it hard to find fellow deep seekers who are all on the same page. Having said this, I believe we are all eventually going to get there in time. We have to have great sound understanding when Christ returns. We really need to know the doctrine so much better than on that simple level. Time is running out, for sure, not only for repentance, but to learn all we can and act on what we have learned. It must increase our devotion, our dedication, our temple attendance, our repentance, faith, etc. With great knowledge comes great power if it is applied properly and allows us to become more like The Savior.
What if you spoke up? Those with an ear to hear will hear. others not so much. How many others go home feeling the same, with all of you being silent.
@@bryanpons6585 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Cardon's skepticism about the ark of the covenant parallel is answered with one principle. Things and places become holy when they come into contact with the Holy One and His ordinances. The ordinances are where the power of God is made manifest. (D&C 84:20-21)
I thought this very thing, but you said it perfectly.
I was just thinking that the stone being rolled away is like the veil being parted, so people can see into the Holy of Holies! Then you see inside the ark as it is with two angels as the cherubim.
🤯 Woah! That is so true! Thanks for this.
I like what you say about the Book of Mormon. When you know that the Book of Mormon is true, you have to reinterpret and relativize your understanding of the Bible to what the Book of Mormon says.
The same thing happened with Paul. When he came to a testimony of Jesus, he had to go back and re read the scriptures with the lens of his testimony of Jesus Christ and reinterpret a lot of what he understood before.
Yahweh created Satan. Ezekiel 28.
Yahweh in a flesh tabernacle has a name and that is Jesus.
Jesus is eternal and everything was created by him, through him and for him.
Jesus is God.
Satan , as a rebellious created created spirit; an Angel (numbers 22, Matthew 4, Luke 22, Job 1) destroys of his own free will, which he chose but is obedient to the word of Yahweh.
I do remember that the reforms of King Joshiah lead the campaign of removing messianic references of Christ from the OT texts. These weren't small things removed from the OT, these were Plain and Precious Truths.
Margaret Barker spoke of the Deuteronomists in the same terms in a speech at The Library of Congress as contained in the book, The Worlds of Joseph Smith. She even specifically mentioned this may be at least part of the, "plain and precious things" taken out of the scriptures that The Book of Mormon tells us.
Yeah. It’s pretty clear these gents are relying a lot on Margaret Barker.
You guys have been putting out some absolute bangers lately !! 💯💯💯
Sunday Feelings Barn
Love your videos with all of these knowledgeable guests!
It's videos like this that i wish i could hit the thumbs up more than once. Keep 'em coming!! Love this collab.
I just love hearing all these wonderful insights from these amazing men! Keep up the great work!
I just love that this channel was made. Nothing better than profound gospel discussions.
Love these deep dive segments!❤ More please!
Mike Day is awesome and no way is Dave Butler off his rocker. Both have opened my eyes to look and read and understand the scriptures so much better.
The Sacrifice of the Two Goats:
The two goats were required to look exactly alike (just like they were twins). There is a type and shadow for this, with the twins Jacob and Esau-both nations were struggling in Rebecca’s womb about to be born. In the womb (in the pre-existence) they wrestled with each other over which one would be the firstborn and thus covenant son. Brothers-Jehovah and Lucifer in the pre-existence struggle to be the covenant son.
While Rebecca was in labor pains, a leg came out, and the midwife, wrapped a red thread around it, but then, it went back in, and the other child came out. When Jacob came out he had a hold of Esau’s heel. So which son would become the covenant son? The one with the red thread? It was Rebecca’s decision to decide. She acting as priestess.
Speaking of the two goats…
The high priest determined which goat was dedicated to the Lord (Yahweh who was without sin to make a covering) and which one would be labeled the scapegoat (for Azazel-Satan) all the sins of Israel would be placed on it’s head. The high priest would wrap a red thread around the scapegoat and sent it away free. Then the priest would tie another red thread on the door of the temple. The scapegoat would run into the mountains and eventually throw itself off the cliff to its death. The priest would sacrifice the covenant goat and wait for the thread on the temple door to turn from red to white. When it was white, he knew Israel’s sins were forgiven, and the scapegoat was dead.
This is the meaning of “though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)
Isaiah 1:1820
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Esau was the firstborn, however, he married out of the covenant and therefore disqualified himself from receiving the birthright. He also had no respect for the covenant and sold it to his brother on a whim. Rebecca decided that Jacob was to be the covenant son, even though Isaac wanted Esau to receive it. Isaac told Esau to go hunt and bring back meat and make him some stew and then he would give him the covenant blessing. Rebecca heard this and so she told Jacob to go out and get two goats….which she then killed. Rebecca told Jacob what to do and whatever sin would be placed upon her head. She made the stew for Isaac and then “made a covering” of skin (wool) to “cover over” Jacob’s arm (to make Isaac think it was hairy Esau). The Atonement of the Lamb of God “covers over” our sins. Jacob received the birthright. Esau came home ready to receive it, but Isaac, had rightfully already given it to Jacob.
Jesus is the GOAT
High Priest lesson manual written by Hugh Nibley....
13:56 elder holland references Barrabas name son of the father and picking one of the two to release by Pilate. Very neat. One of my favorite talks by Elder Holland.
Elder Holland is THE GOAT!
We used to have meetings like this. It was called High Priest Group.
This group should do a come follow me channel together, take us through the entire 4 standard works, pulling in all your knowledge of various languages, translations, apocraphal correlations, etc. Etc. I want to hear it ALL... such good stuff!!!!
Another great video. I love seeing these men of faith together. Looking forward to more of this, but also want to see some more Jacob Hansen and Luke Hansen and Jonah Barnes videos.
Mike Day, David Butler, Jackson Paul… this stuff is awesome!
I wonder if we could be like the Deuteronomist, we want to change the doctrine to fit our feelings and thoughts.
Seems like some scholars are pointed in that direction.
It seems like it all the reforms were more to centralize power and authority. ‘Forget all those times Jacob and Moses spoke with God face to face (or touched him! God doesn’t have a body, Jacob didn’t actually wrestle God). No one can talk to God except the authorized priests, in the only official temple, in Jerusalem. No one can see God. God has no body. God has no children. Forget what it says in Psalms 86 about a council of gods and “ye are gods.” Only the priests have the ability to commune with God. God will never have a body. Forget all that stuff in Genesis about being made in His image. Heck, forget that “Elohim” is plural!
And forget that “Shaddai” is related to “breasts/שדיים/shaddaim” (as “El Shaddai/אל שדי” translates as God of the Mountains (mountains=הרים) but is most often translated as “God Almighty” in the Bible because the word meaning “to overpower/שדד/shadad” is, fortunately for the scribes, close enough to the word for “breasts/shadaim/שדיים).
And all sacrifices are TO God, to appease Him because we sin, not to remind us that we know the Son will come down to save us from sin. The sacrifices are not AS God, only TO God.
Forget all that, there’s only one God, and He has neither gender nor body nor children, and humans are but mere creatures and not children. And only the priests are allowed to have anything to do with God.’
Not unlike the councils to formalize doctrine to cease infighting (and therefore more easily control the populace), the death of the belief in premortality (6th century under emperor Julian..?), along with a loss of the belief (in the West, anyway) in theosis/divinization/exaltation (the Eastern Orthodox branches never forgot that bit of doctrine, or that marriage is eternal). History repeats!
@@gingersnaps215 🤯💜
Psalms 82, not 86. I always mix that up 😆
I’m so grateful for the Restoration of Christ’s church. For the restoration of the priesthood keys, and that we have temple so we can make covenants and do the work for our ancestors.
What a blessing from our Father in Heaven.
This has been an eye opening episode
Both goats represent different aspects of Yeshua and what He did for us.
John seems to have been saying everything possible to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Holy Son of God. Therefore, these claims do not seem implausible in the least. Thanks to these good brothers for sharing their insights.
Those guys were just wrong when they said we didn’t learn about Leviticus and the feast of the Atonement in Sunday School. I remember teaching it. It was the May 2-8 lesson. We may not have taught his theory about the connection with the Gospel of John. But I think there’s a good reason not to teach academic theories as fact. They’re interesting and fun to listen to in settings like Ward Radio. But academic theories - and even academic consensus - can and do change.
The Church’s responsibility is to SUPPORT us in our gospel study and be a RESOURCE in teaching our family. This is why we have been given Come Follow Me to teach in our family. Ultimately our personal study to attain knowledge cannot be replaced by being hand-fed in Sunday School. The members of the class show how much personal study they do by the comments they make in class-no matter if they are seasoned members or new converts.
Very cool! Keeps me motivated to learn more
Just saw Brad in one of the Book of Mormon videos playing the role of King Mosiah and I about fell out of my seat. Haha
Oh, there are new videos??
Love your channel so much. 💖
now i love to hear again , these guys are worth ones time
Dave Butler and Mike Day have it going on. The whole ark thing and the tomb was very very cool. I don't think it was a stretch to say John was making a connection to the ark for those that have ears to hear.
My two bits on the Sunday School rant. I've been in Come Follow Me groups who would eat this fat of the gospel. But I've also been in groups with new converts still on milk, people with simple cognitive functions, or adults still learning how to read, and ya gotta keep them in mind too with lesson prep. If someone wants to learn beyond the Sunday schol lesson, it's their own responsibility, not the church's.
Third time through episode. So awesome. Love it. Thank you
This is so cool!
Does anyone know the name of the glory intro song? 😫 I'm trying my best to find it, but so far I'm unsuccessful.
Hullo there! I’m Tyler…
Cardon, John 18:3 tells you why they fell down: ..."a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharacees..." These were devout Temple Guards and officers.They would have been as devout as can be. Their falling would have been almost reflexive to hearing "The Name" in this highly charged atmosphere.
Truth and light!
Could the stone being rolled away be symbolic of the waters gushing forth from the Well of Souls, flowing like unto a river which is representative of the love of God as Nephi and Lehi saw?
I love this new theme song!!!!
Exodus 25:18-20. The angels surrounding the mercy seat where (Leviticus 16) the blood of the bullock and the goat was sprinkled. John 20:12. Types and shadows...
I just saw Escape from Germany! So funny to see Brad as one of the elders. Of course he's the one filming and risking their safety! haha Great film!
Idk that yall even read these comments, but on this very topic of the brass plates being different. Nephi, jacob, enos, all obtained the plates. They also had to learn "the language of our fathers".
The first mention of language was from the tower of babel. Same tower that the jaredites came from.
I believe that the brass plates contained writings from the original language.
Also note that lehi didnt gift the plates to his firstborn. Nephi didnt even give them to any of his kids. Typically, old jews would gift such a thing as a birthright to their oldest son. It seems to me that nephi didnt have any kids worthy enough to pass the plates to so he gave them to his brother Jacob.
We read them. ;)
Sunday feelings barn!!!! 😆
is there two cherubim's on ark of the covenant because there were two angels standing by the garden tomb?
This topic is relevant at this time. Going to have to watch it again so I can digest all the information presented, but can’t wait for episode 3, and 4 and 5 and 6. Awesome guys.
Ward radio let me know when y'all come to Texas.
I Love Ur books bro Butler! Jesus Great love from the beginning is finally explained as my heart knew but you phrased❤
bam!
Hey I got a question if we believe that god was once man as we are now how does that doctrine work in tandem with Moroni 8:18? Help a brother out
Basically He was always a Man. He didn’t start out as a cloud, a thunder, etc. He’s our own kind. Or rather, we are His own kind.
We believe that Christ learned line upon line precept upon precept. Being "unchangeable" does not preclude going through an experience similar to our own and growing to become like Heavenly Father in stature and majesty. If God did that and Christ did that and they have invited us to do that, then "unchangeable" must refer to some other aspect of their being that does not change. Perhaps their spiritual nature perhaps certain attributes that they have. I will suggest you consider what those aspects might be and study further.
The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow is referring to the consistency in who he is from everlasting to everlasting.
For example, some people get slim or gain weight, suffer some sort physical ailment, but they are nice, giving, caring, or a loving person. This same person can become the total opposite of who they are because of a new experience. We can change personalities, gain new knowledge, etc.
God on the other hand remains the same. A wishy washy God is not a god you can believe in.
Hope this makes sense
It is simple really. God was not God in the beginning, he had not attained that title, that exaltation. Once he had attained that title of God and became perfect and exalted then comes the what you are referring to, being unchangeable. Consistent, trustworthy
this is all fascinating. I have questions, Mike mentioned a sacred embrace between mary and christ, I see nothing to indicate that in John, infact He says" touch me not" Jn 20:17 Also I believe david metioned that in the tomb, where Christ laid represented the Ark of the Covenant. and said that christ had ascended and sat on the throne of God. Yet in John 20:17 he tells Mary he had not as yet. Explain
The azazell goat was thrown off a cliff. Similar ending for Judas Iscariot in one account
So I think Jonah needs to listen to Jack Logan Ancient Traditions. She has only 4 on CZcams so most of her podcasts are on her website. She studies all the ancient religions and points that all ancient religions come from one central religion which consisted of Temple rights. Everything she talks about connects to all we believe about the Temple. Her podcasts are amazing and I’ve only listened to 3!!!!!! It would be fascinating to see how his knowledge with apocryphal text and what she shares connects. Same with David. I wonder if he has heard of her podcasts.
17:22 - The G.O.A.T. = Greatest Of All Time
Lucifer: "I am the greatest!"
Jehovah: "I AM."
Also, have you guys ever heard Ron Wyatt's stuff regarding the ark of the covenant being hidden beneath golgotha, and when Christ died the earth was rent, a crack in the rocky hill split down from the base of the cross allowing a trickle of blood from Christ on the cross to drip onto the ark of the covenant, aka mercy seat. Interesting stuff
I don't think they adjusted the story to fit traditional ceremony. I tend to think the ceremonies were prophetic and foresaw the actual future events.
Mike Day! 24:56 you mention the sacred embrace between Mary and Christ, is that connected to the old 5 point embrace that's no longer practiced in our temples?
I understand why Sunday School needs to keep things basic. What they should do is bring back School of the Prophets in each Stake, or make it part of the CES but available in each Stake, where those who want a deeper dive can go.
I wish there would be some discussion about the JST of these passages.
Keep in mind Joseph never felt like he was “done” with the KJV. I mean, compare the creation account given in Moses (basically the JST of Genesis, which was done before Joseph took any Hebrew lessons) to the one in Abraham. Key differences! (We see “times” rather than “day,” and where in Genesis and Moses “God” is singular, it is very clearly plural in Abraham). I also don’t know that he had been made aware of Heavenly Mother the first time he took a crack at the KJV. I don’t think he had in any clear way, yet.
Anyway, things to keep in mind!
@@gingersnaps215 What about the translation of the Book of Mormon makes you think that he needed Hebrew lessons to get the JST right? He never sat down with books on Egyptian to translate the Book of Mormon. Likewise, he never sat down with books on Hebrew or even the Hebrew Bible to do the JST.
@@andrewbfrost7021 I’m saying his mind was expanded by the knowledge he gained from learning Hebrew. In the King Follett discourse (the version as recorded by Wilford Woodruff) he mentions how the German Bible translates the name of the son of Zebedee more accurately than the English (Jacob, rather than James -James is an anglicized version of the Greek version of the Hebrew Ya’akov). Was he inspired to change the name of James to Jacob in his first pass at the KJV? Nope. He also mentions how the word in Genesis translated as “created” is more accurately translated as “organized” (In the beginning God created the world, etc etc). Did he make that change in his first pass at the KJV? Nope. Did he finish (or even start..?) a second pass before he died? Nope.
I’m not sure how tight or loose the translation process of the Book of Mormon was, but I know it required effort and thought on the part of the translator, or else Oliver would have been more easily able to do it.
I don’t think it was just shown in written form the entire way through (with the exception of names spelled specifically, like Coriantumr; there’s apparently a crossed out misspelling of that name in the JSP manuscripts); it seems the translator had to study it out and select the best wording at the time. Maybe after Joseph had settled on language/a word, then it would appear in writing? Who knows! I have never “seen” like that, though I have had “here’s what to say” kind of inspirations (though it didn’t come out of my mouth exactly the same as it felt in my brain, if that makes sense).
Here a little, and there a little, line upon line. That’s all I am saying.
@@gingersnaps215 I think understand what you are saying. Do you think that the Book of Mormon would be different if he had translated it again in the Nauvoo period and if he had taken some Egyptian? I’m not trying to be rude(it probably sounds like I am over text). I’m just trying to clarify the issue and my own thoughts. If not, why do you think the translation process was full and far more precise for the Book of Mormon, but quite spotty for the Bible, God knowing that Joseph would never live to go through it again? He certainly felt that it was an important mandate from the Lord to do.
@@andrewbfrost7021 Didn’t Brigham say if the Book of Mormon had been translated again it would most likely have different wording? I’m sure the “after all you can do” phrase would be more clear for 21st century minds, at least! (If you look at other 19th century writing, it seems that phrase was understood as “despite all”).
I’m not saying I don’t think what we have, as we have it, neither was nor is important. But there have been minor revisions over the years (usually just grammar and word choices, nothing majorly huge). I wonder if the Divine Feminine might have been more apparent, beyond the little hint we get in Nephi’s vision that Mary is the mother of the Son of God *after the manner of the flesh* (Val Larsen seems to think that the Mother - and the Father and Son- is mentioned in the Book of Mormon in the epithet “Lord God Almighty” since in the Hebrew Bible that epithet is “Jehovah El Shaddai,” and we understand Jehovah to be Jesus, El to be the Father, and Shaddai *might* be the mother since “shaddai” in Hebrew is שדי and is *awfully close* to the word for “breasts” (shaddaim/שדיים) and conveniently close to the word meaning “to overpower” (shadad/שדד).
I wonder about things like that.
The Deuteronomist movement gives a lot of context to the various trials prophets are put through. Abinadi, Alma and Amulek, they all question around this idea of a humble self sacrificing Messiah utilizing their questioning to trap and ensnare so they can kill due to blasphemy. If it weren't for the Deuteronomist themes...these entrapments just seem like they're ignorant lumpkins not having any real sophistication just people too foolish to understand the gospel. But if it's looked at from a Deuteronomist/Josiah kill all visionaries entrapment scenario it takes on a different hue.
22:40 Joseph of Arimathea must have known that this tomb would only temporarily house the body of Jesus.
I know him
I miss the old theme song 🙏
Do you know how to find it? I cant find it!
Had Christ ascended at this point?
11:05 every knee shall bow
Wewease Bwyan!
Latter-Day Watch wants to do a collab with others on May 1st about Christ’s Grace. You guys have clout. Please pass it on to others. Correct the Evangelists misdirections about our beliefs. Thanks!
We need to make May 1st 2024 a day of learning!
What are the specific misdirections? No archaeology from any reputable university to support BOM? Different gospel between Bible and DC? Joseph's shady history with treasure digging and seer stones? Church lying about Jospeh's polygamy but then admitting it? What exactly are you referring to?
We are talking specifically about works vs grace and how we are saved in our theology, and how a lot of people misunderstand it
@@CelestialComrades I always wonder about why DC132 is STILL in the official canon of the mormon church? Based on what is written in DC 132 verse 63, the three purposes for plural marriage are:
1) to multiply and replenish the earth
2) to fulfill a promise
3) for exaltation in the eternal worlds
So it says explicitly in D&C 132:63 that plural marriage is a requirement for "exaltation in the eternal worlds". Why, then, doesn't the modern LDS church continue to teach this? Has the modern LDS church fell into apostasy?
ALSO, Verse 54 says Emma will be 'destroyed' unless she participates in plural marriage. That's not very encouraging words for monogamous couples who want to be exalted.
@@kevinedward-jt2vs That part D&C 132 can't be interpreted as polygamy is required to enter exaltation because Adam had only one wife and he was exalted,
the rest is still correct
👍🏼👍🏼🔥🔥🔥🔥❤
The idea about people falling when Jesus’ name was said:
The laws of nature causes “Every knee to bend and every tongue to confess that Jesus is the Christ.” (Philippians 2:19-11; Romans 14:11)
A person’s mind may not accept or know that Jesus is the Christ-in order for them to choose to fall down and confess. But that person’s physical body…..knows who the Creator is. Our body is organized from earthly element and that element immediately knows and obeys the Creator. The fact that these people fell when Jesus’ name was said….shows that their bodies were witnessing that He was in fact the Great I am.
Romans 14:11-12
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Philippians 2:10-11
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It is my understanding, that there are two “Ark of the Covenants.” There are two thrones-the one on earth (in the Holy of Holies) which was constructed after the one which is in heaven. The golden box in the Old Testament was a replica of the heavenly Ark that God sits upon. Isaiah tells us that the throne in heaven is flanked by two living seraphim, who cry, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.”
Isaiah 6:1-4
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
There is a third ark.
22:12 Cardons missing the whole point, its a symbol, it's not the actual ark. The Ark is where God sits, it's his chariot throne, within the holy of holies. It is interesting because there were also temple workers within the holy of holies that were referred too as angels.
Agreed. And the symbol isn't & cannot be greater than the fulfillment
Brad Witbeck in the BoM videos are you King Mosiah?! If not you look just like him😇
Smart Old Testament lovers, this is all great stuff anything to help defend the Bom and Jesus is needed. I was challenged with this and would love some input DEUTERO-ISAIAH Problem (as it relates to the Book of Mormon), Isaiah chapters:
Ch. 1-39 1st/Proto-Isaiah, in Jerusalem, Nephi left with brass plates, author believe Israel can’t be conquered
Ch. 40-55 2nd/Deutero-Isaiah, 587bc captivity/exiled to Babylon, anyonymous author,
Ch. 56-66 3rd/Trito-Isaiah , back in Jerusalem, another anonymous author.
Scholarly consensus is that Isaiah chapters 40-46 were not written by 8th century Isaiah son of Amoz, but were written by others after the Jews were “destroyed around 587BC just after Lehi left town with the brass plates. Therefore, Nephi could have only had chapters 1-39, but problematically he quotes deuteron-Isaiah chapters which had not yet been written from his brass plates into the Book of Mormon. He quotes it in King James Version style and includes KJV errors.
efore getting to Isaiah 53 (the suffering servant) let me first do an easier one to demonstrate: Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” Was it fulfilled in Jesus? As described by Matthew 1:22-23 “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, [23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”?
In 740 BC Ahaz, king of Judah, was being attacked and threatened with invasion by both Syria and Israel. Ahaz was alarmed. Rather than seek the Lord he sought Assyria’s help. Isaiah the prophet comes in to reassure the king “fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands (Syria & Israel) verse 4. The Lord says to not to worry, Judah will be delivered from enemies in verse 7 “It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.” Isaiah through God offers a sign to explain just how quickly this will be over, in verse 14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” . The child is an object to measure how much time (very little) it will take for the kings of Syria and Israel to change their mind and leave the land. The child Immanuel begins to grow up but before he is even mature enough to understand how to choose, Judah’s the enemies will back down. “For BEFORE the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings” In the next chapter Isiah 8:8 a Immanuel is alive during Ahaz’s continued reign.
Furthermore, when Matthew was quoting Isaiah he was using his greek copy of Isaiah. The greek used the word (παρθένος Parthenos) for virgin but, in fact, Isaiah was written originally in Hebrew which used the word (הָעַלְמָ֗ה Ha-al-mah) which means “young woman” not necessarily a virgin. Matthew so badly wants Jesus to be fulfilling this scripture that he is grapping anything in the Old Testament that relates to Jesus’ life and saying “look it’s fulfilled in Jesus!” One more example: Jesus fled to Egypt during Herod ,Matthew 2:15 “And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” This is a reference to Hosea 11:1 “called my son out of Egypt.” But this can’t be a prophecy of a future Jesus because it has already happened as explained in the first part of the verse where Yahweh called the nation of Israel (his child) out of Egypt “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”
AT 2:50 - Re: Mormons believe Christ is the brother of Satan. - You have to remember that Christians who believe in the Trinity see Christ as another aspect/face of God, not a separate entity who has goals and aspirations and levels of love for us equal to those of Heavenly Father. Again, it all goes back to needing to know the nature of God. BTW, King Josiah "discovering" a new scroll in the temple (early version of Deuteronomy) telling the people that they needed to consolidate all worship into activities at the Jerusalem Temple is very convenient for the Saducees, who controlled the Temple and all of the offerings made there. It makes a person wonder if Josiah's (640BCE - 609BCE) actions weren't the final straw that brought about the Babylonian invasion. Just thinking.
The Holy Trinity is 3 Persons of one Godly Essence. Each Person is fully the one God, but not the other Person. Christ Himself is fully man and fully God, two natures unmingled and inseparable.
To say that He is an aspect/face of God would be to say God changes modes, which is Modalism, not Trinitarian.
The old temple scroll was found after all the scriptures had been burned for some time. King Josiah’s grandfather, King Manasseh, ordered all the scriptures to be brought forth to be burned. Manasseh put idols in the temple and the high places and forced the people to bow down to them. King Josiah was attempting to salvage the evil that his grandfather and father did. However, the judgements had already been cast, and Josiah’s attempt only gave Israel a little more time, but then after Josiah, it all went down hill again.
Josiah seemed to take after his great grandfather, King Hezekiah. Both were considered “good kings” (compared to the wicked kings). But they also made mistakes by attempting to “right the ship” so to speak. Kings are not prophets and they overstepped their authority. During Heziekiah’s day, Isaiah was the prophet and he didn’t always agree with the king’s tactics.
Leviticus 16 says the sins of the people were atoned for. Which people? All people all over the world? No. It was for the sins of God's people Israel which the atonement was for. Why then would it be any different with Jesus' atonement? He was sent to Israel, specifically the lost sheep of the House of Israel. He didn't come to redeem any other people.
The church is trying to correlate lessons for people who have been members for 2 weeks. They made that decision back in the 70s when the church was growing fast and there were lots of new members and we didn't want to overwhelm anyone.
That's what Gospel Principles class was. The church got rid of it.
@@jackiechoate6163At the same time they dumbed down sunday school to the basic, here's a story... what can we learn stuff.
Can see the natural man temptation show up when we start to say "the church" (The Prophet, and by turn Christ) should "do things this way, we know better than they do", same sin of Adam and Eve.
Loved this episode. Great parallels I hadn't ever seen before. I'm happy to learn these things here and then share them in Sunday School when it's appropriate.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
- Psalm 90:2
1. lasting or enduring through all time : ETERNAL (Merriam-Webster).
How would LDS interpret this?
She it be interpreted from beginning and forever to beginning and forever? How many of you have heard those words being used in that context today? Is Jesus not created?
Isaih 44:24
God spread out the earth by himself?
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
- John 1:3
I guess this excludes the Father from creation?
monogenés: only begotten
properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" - literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
- Strongs Greek.
the goats were not named "Yahweh" and "Azazel". SMH. These 2 unnamed goats were for 2 deities. YHWH, the God of Israel and the other lesser deity named Azazel. See Leviticus 16:7-10.
You shoukd be able to see where Jesus has been removed from the bible through chiasmus. God is great.
Jesus The Christ is not who He was when Lucifer was removed. Lucifer is no longer the same being, either. They were, but no longer are. The First Presidency has told us not to refer to Christ as our brother in the past. The Book of Mormon says Christ is The Father.
Christ is the Father of the church. We become His children when we are baptized into the church (that’s my understanding). Christ = Father of congregants, church/Zion = mother.
Satan = father of the world, Babylon = mother of the world (the great whore of Babylon, and all that).
The Book of Mormon doesn’t know trinitarian theology or formulas, but does know how unified the Father and Son are, and so what one does it is the same as if it had been done by the other. Kerry Muhlstein goes into that seemingly trinitarian bit of the Book of Mormon on his episodes of Follow Him, Jared Halverson offers his interpretations in the first season of Unshaken (I’m unsure if he does the same in the current season as I haven’t listened to it).
@@gingersnaps215 While I love my LDS brothers and sisters, the Bible teaches the Trinity. The problem is that the LDS interprets scripture differently.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
- Psalm 90:2
It's very difficult to interpret this as God having a beginning. The Greek definition of everlasting means eternal. It's not like this passage is saying in the context of, "everlasting peace." How can God be from everlasting? I know the LDS believes Jesus is the creator. John 1:3 says so.
Then there's Isiah 44:24 where it is God alone that creates the earth.
So Jesus is not under the direction of the Father? By himself?
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 Corinthians 3:17
The spirit is also called Lord? Who
Prays to the LORD in the name of the spirit?
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2
Why is the spirit there? What's the purpose. Is it a part of creation also?
@@adamkaine2714 well, can I ask you then, as a Catholic, what is your understanding of the embodiment of Christ? Does Christ retain his resurrected body currently, or is He all spirit? I ask because I have heard conflicting things from Catholics and Protestants alike.
@@gingersnaps215 I'm not Catholic. Why would you assume that? I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't subscribe to a denomination. I do believe that Jesus retains his body.
Jesus ascended into heaven with a body. He told Thomas to touch him. We received a new body when we die. But God the Father has no body, nor does the spirit. Read 1 Timothy 1:17
Also no man has seen God at anytime.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. - John 1:18
Anytime covers all of time. Therefore, how can you know he has a body? Jacob wrestling with the angel does not change that, unless Genesis is a contradiction?
@@adamkaine2714 ha! Sorry I swear I read “Catholic” in your first response. Brain flub!
My question then, is how do you rectify the trinitarian belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct beings of *one substance* if you believe Jesus still has a body? That is what the doctrine of the Trinity states, yes? Distinct beings, but of one substance?
OPEN YOUR EYES! Jesus warned against people paying more attention to the outside of the cup, while leaving the inside of the cup dirty. Jesus doesn't care about your outward ceremonies and symbols. Jesus DOES care if you have come to see you cannot be good enough to be a god, but instead will trust with your heart ALONE in HIS loving atonement for ALL your sins! He cares more if you truly are bowing your spirit to HIS humble, loving Lordship as the one and only God! Only THEN does He make you his living temple, and then start doing rennovations in your life from the inside to the outside.
The entire video is on Jesus Christ. He's literally the thumbnail. Do ... do you need something to do?
@@jonahbarnes5841 You make my point. You are more concerned with the outward appearance of the "thumbnail" than what is really going on inside. The "jesus" that mormons talk about is not the Jesus of the Bible. The mormon jesus is concerned with commanding men to commit celestial polygamy. The biblical Jesus calls a person to come directly to Himself to be saved by a personal relationship with Him through HIS loving atonement for their sins, and HIS subsequent resurrection to Lordship. The Biblical Jesus makes you HIS living temple. The mormon jesus makes you trust in a dead brick temple.
Kevin, as you're bowing your spirit to HIS, read Mark 9 and then take a look at your intolerance and start practicing the renovation in your life. Learning of Jesus is always good! If it is us worshiping through our christian music before our service, or learning through CZcams video we grow closer to Jesus.
@@MJ-pt2jp My point is that Jesus doesn't care about your outward ceremonies and symbols (as he clearly says in scripture). Ceremonies don't save anyone. Temples don't save anyone. Jesus didn't tolerate the Jews hypocrisy, and He won't tolerate mormon lies. What am I saying, except that unless a person comes directly to Jesus with their heart trusting alone in HIS atonement and Lordship, then they will not enter into the kingdom of God. Rom 10, John 3.
READ THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, and ask THAT Jesus who He is.
@@kevinedward-jt2vsgosh I’m so tired of seeing the wrong Jesus line! We don’t deliberately and aggressively come after you even though we believe you’ve been deceived. I appreciate your passion but unless you can point to an example of when Christ himself came down and revealed to you or someone that we are worshiping the wrong Jesus then please stop this nonsense! If Jesus didn’t care about temples or ceremonies or symbols then why would he command men to participate/learn from/build them?
This is what Scripture study looks like. If you're ok with linking Isaiah to Jesus, nothing that was said in this episode is that much of a stretch. I actualy think Dave Butler and Mike Day are on to something real and I'm also on board with the Sunday School ideas. I think this model is so watered down that the classes are way too superficial on the doctrine.
Jesus is the GOAT