Chris Packham, could you please explain to me how you expect the thousands and thousands of acres of moorland to be managed if grouse shooting is banned? How do the small rural communities continue to thrive? How to the small village schools, post offices, pubs, village halls all stay open and well used if keeper lose their jobs and no shooting parties visits the areas. Without the income generated by the shoots (as you point out, it's as much as £75 per grouse shot) land owners would not be able to pay for the management of their moors. Pubs and restaurants would lose a valuable winter income and communities would be reduced to the few farmers struggling to make a living. So would you be happy to see this happen to our small rural communities? For the sake of what? Without moorland being properly managed the picture would be bleak - over run with foxes, stoats, rats, crows, magpies. No where for sandpipers, curlews, plovers to nest in the peace and quiet and for families to be driven away from areas that they love, protect and cherish. Your one sided view of grouse shooting is discraceful.
I beat on a grouse moor and know a lot of keepers who look after them and what they do for wildlife on there moors. And not 1 of them has ever shot trapped or killed any bird of prey. They are so protective of there wildlife the time and effort that goes in to have a healthy biodiversity and keep invasive plants etc in check is amazing. On our moor we have kites peragrin Falcons buzzards etc yes they mite take grouse but that's nature . If the keeper wasn't there the moor wouldn't have grouse because it wouldn't have heather so no grouse no grouse no kites buzzards or my favourite bird that I feel so privileged to see peragrin Falcons. Yes it costs a lot of money to look after a moor so who if not people who shoot is going to pay for it's up keep ?. Not the council look what happened when they tried to ban it at likely and bingley council realised they could not afford to do it hence no ban. Chris packam in my opinion has been brought in 2 this by uneducated fools who have no idea what is going on who wear ski masks and intimidate people who love and care about the country side . He was a very nice young man who I watched with my children when they where young and until this blatant attack on shooting I still watched on Spring watch etc. I will never watch it again while that man is on it. Sorry Chris you have had your pants pulled down by trouble causing idiots.my comments on here will be read by some and I will get threatened on fb or other means but freedom of speach is a thing we take for granted. Please feel free to comment.
i will comment: i upvoted you because, while i agree with him, you're the one person who disagreed using prose and sense and personal experience, not insults. I upvote anyone who contributes to the debate, it's the sludge in the comments that depresses me
Just wants to make a name for himself and get back in the public light! Amazing what these people do to re-start their Careers! No idea of the good moorland management does for the whole Eco system!
On the moors in the north Pennines they used to mine lead. Perhaps that explains the high lead content of grouse . That is if you believe the analysis Packham quoted
Mr Packham will obviously go to any lengths to propagate his anti hunting views. I am surprised he hasn't aired this on the beeb ? Mark Avery's opinions are also well known and substantially biased against shooting. In fact Mr Avery was head of an organisation that killed birds that it portrayed they were trying to protect. I will be shopping more often in M and S. You think that at this uncertain time in our economy Mr Packham would refrain from launching assaults on two industries which give substantial employment rather than cause people to lose them.
Managed to listen to the first minute....he then started whinging about the CEO of Iceland who apparently shoots all the Grouse that Iceland sells. Lets talk about things that get the ill-educated public in a tiss shall we. Get a feeling he has tried Grouse shooting himself, managed to miss all the birds put took out a beater and 2 dogs. Got himself kicked off the shoot and is now sulking.
See also this article by George Monbiot linking the drainage of grouse moors to some of the severe flooding in recent years www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land
I worked on an estate with a grouse shoot for 3 months and I believe driven grouse shooting should be banned. I think walked up grouse shooting is different and extremely challenging for the gun and should be allowed with careful restrictions to avoid it becoming commercialised.
Does Mr Packham have permission to be on private land in a grouse butt whilst at the same time exhorting us to ban grouse shooting. I doubt it.I thought he was a vegetarian and as such wouldn't be eating meat of any sort.Strange fellow, who is he?
Lead has been banned here for a while now. We use steel shot & we can't sell wild meat. We also strictly enforce bag limits on how many you can harvest. Alberta Canada
Claire McDay: Putting the "Storm Desmond" floods into context. On the 5th December 2015, the rain gauge at Honister Pass in the Lake District, recorded 341.4mm of rain. This is a new record for UK rainfall, and has been evaluated as a 1 in 1300year event, which means that in any given year the probability of the highest rainfall being large than 341.4 MM. is 0.08%. The rain gauge at Thirlmere recorded 405mm over 48 hours which is also a new UK rainfall record. This period of extremely heavy rain came on top of five weeks of persistent rain which lead to the ground being completely saturated. The intense rainfall of the 4th and 5th of December really was a perfect storm which lead in combination with saturated water tables, to the severe flooding in most parts of Cumbria and north Lancashire.
Nonsense Chris, your entire analysis is based on supporting statements designed to arrive you at the conclusion you desire! As for lead in the birds if you're so mentally incapacitated that you could not spit it out when you encounter a piece of shot. Then perhaps solid food just isn't for you.
Packham on somesort of sad lonersome crusade, trying to mug the public of with his uninformed opinion and making out that it is fact. BBC need to sack this sad act from their broadcasting
@TheNatureLover no nead to swear, but it's what I'd expect from the thugary of antis. One of the problems with Packham is the fact he does ignor what anybody else thinks. I can guarente I put more effort in than most antis into the population and conservation of many species, so please don't swear at me, and make out you know anything about me. Because you dont.
It's a bit misleading to base all this on a sample of "some grouse" without giving an indication of how many "some" are. The amount of lead will vary massively from one bird to another. Legal limits for lead in game have been considered by the people who set them for other meats for many years and it was agreed that because of the massive variation of lead levels in game shot with lead, that it made more sense to give to manage risk. The alternative is wasting lots and lots of meat. Liz Truss, an MP well known for being anti-shooting, said the the recent lead ammunition report “did not show that the impacts of lead ammunition were significant enough to justify changing current policy”. Plus, even people who eat game regularly don't eat *so* much of it that they're at major risk. And let's face it, Mr Packham doesn't really care whether you eat grouse shot with a lead cartridge; he just wants *driven* grouse shooting banned. Are grouse shot on walked-up shoots not shot with lead cartridges as well?
Just been thinking about the vast number of professions that are linked with the grouse shooting industry. So here are a few of those people that could go out of business if grouse shooting was banned....tailors (who hand make all the keeper suits and many of the land owners etc), wallers (maintain the miles of miles of stone walling on moors) sawmills and builders and quarries that supply material to build that butt you were standing in Chris and stone for all the roads, gunsmiths, shooting outlets and caterers who provide the shoot party lunches. I'm sure given more time I could go on and on. So there is a bigger price to pay for your witch hunt and it's called taking away people's right to earn a living! If you don't want to ingest the almost non existent amount of lead present in game birds then I suggest you simply don't buy it. But a complete ban on grouse shooting is not going to make our country side sustainable.
The same old(e) sad rhetoric n soundbites , I'm a countryman n you people r tory thugs , you r tastiest foxes of them all no identity want to belong to your cosy backstabbing vermin club , you sinister crafty spoilt devil's doin just what you want
Here's a question for you Chris, who the hell is going to do the conservation work ,if grouse shooting were to be banned ??? Grouse eat one thing and one thing only. ...Heather and they prefer new growth. . Keepered moors benefit other ground nesting birds . Please take your speech impediment and fwec off.
The pace brothers of the into the wilderness series and podcast are wanting a debate with you about the pros and cons of grouse shooting, why have you not responded to them Chris? Surely if you feel as passionate as you say about having it banned you wouldn't mind the publicity? Or do you fear it may sway some folk the other way?
BRAVO Chris Packham for pointing out one of the countless reasons why grouse shooting is an abhorrent practice. It serves absolutely no purpose other than satisfying (?) the bloodlust of a sadistic minority - and lining the pockets of large estates. I don't buy at Iceland anyway and have recently stopped buying anything from M&S.
But he hasn't. He's talking about lead in meat, not about shooting anything. And if it's so abhorrent, shouldn't he be talking about *all* grouse shooting?
well said Chris. interesting point Mark discovered about lead contamination of grouse. you have a lot of silly comments left under this film, obviously by gun fanatics and people who classify killing helpless creatures as a sport so rather than take part in a polite debate, the realisation that their hobbies could be removed has also removed their ability to type propely too. keep the films coming...
Anneka Svenska ha ha ha anti people chris packham says British people should stop having children as to many people live here.he says stop looking to cure cancer.the man is a fool a anti Christ and he has sad sick followers.
Where did he say that? He didn't did he? And how did grouse evolve before men in tweed were burning and draining the hills for them? And how do they survive so well all round the world where the eis no driven grouse shooting? It's a very poor argument - in fact it's no argument at all.
All the usual eco-warrior claptrap. Light on facts heavy on rhetoric. 75% of the worlds heather moorland is in the UK and it needs to be managed. The income from shooting helps maintain and improve this habitat. Sheep grazing has caused huge loss of this habitat and reduced bio-diversity and many moor owners now spend huge sums trying reverse this process. Managed shooting moorland supports three to five times the number of lapwing, golden plover, curlew and redshank and ring ouzel of non-shooting estates.
yes I like grouse, a pleasure to cook as a chef, I like ina Botham , one of my heores.. I lie chris packham.. with all the stories in media these days, rights and wongs.. its a wonder humans do anything right .. we might as well stay in bed..
What a distorted view. I'm not arguing about the lead levels if you take into account all the shot found in the bird. If you then take this out, as you would when you eat the bird, the levels will be completely fine. Pachams rationale is flawed as always.
Omg these comments are so horrible. Let's weigh up the pros and cons and see what can be done to benefit us all. I would probably say not poisening raptors, birds of prey etc is a start. Let's think about who is paying who to do what and look at better ways to spend money etc
You are torking out of your back side grouse mores do so much for wildlife just take a look were there aren't working grouse there's nothing need I say more
One for those still in denial about the role of grouse industry in the illegal persecution of raptors - on 27th June 2016 an illegally set trap and rabbit bait was found on a grouse moor (Invercauld Estate) with a fatally injured gull in its jaws (although such traps were clearly after bigger prey). Clear evidence was later "found that eight similar traps had been deployed, attached to stakes and baited with dead rabbits, in a line stretching two hundred metres across the moor. It was also evident that these traps had been removed very recently". One doesn't have to be very cynical to imagine the hiatus between the original discovery and the later finds was profitably used to warn the 'right people' to remove further evidence. The estate has issued a statement saying that they were "extremely concerned by such an allegation" (I bet they were!) but then, laughably, implied it was part of a plot to "discredit the grouse industry". Quite why such devious plotters would have first set the line of traps and then, once discovered, diligently removed the evidence before they could be discovered and exploited defies the imagination. Grouse moors are big places and the chances of an actively deployed line of illegal traps being discovered at all must be small. No evidence of systemic persecution? Really?
Strange John, that no-one has replied to your latest . I wonder why? I thought they always had something to say... even James is keeping his head down!
Completely mystifying, Ardmaraig ........ not. They do have a habit of not answering any question that is at all embarrassing. I'm still waiting to hear why it's OK for them to use BBC (not just BBC celebs but paying for a virulently pro-field sports programme & book) but not others - I've posed the question several times and never got a sensible response.
how many raptors are killed by pigeon flyers mate.how many birds are killed by cats.sorry lots of rspb owners have cats so you don't want their money to stop. the killing of raptors is illegal and those who do it should be punished but don't target everyone the same.lots of good work is don't by hunters but you are always blinkered in view. your own agenda is floored and you know it game shooting money keeps your hen harrier going along with other at risk birds.clever people know they plough millions more into conservation than the rspb.
+The Kestrel see there you are thank you the truth finally rich few that's your class argument and the cruel means you are against all hunting methods.so it's not about conservation at all.evidence means nothing to the narrow minded.bye
+The Kestrel shot in the head.you have no idea what hunting is about do you.look you have a education issue.hunters respect there Quarry far more than you will ever.you look at life through rose tinted glasses had the utopia you seek dose not exist.
Trying to message Chris can't get him on Twitter (dislike twitter as well) I would like to know if he has any contacts with land owners that; Would be happy with people planting trees to create new wood or forest? I think it would be nice to encourage my family and friends to plant a trees for; births, weddings, anniversaries, christmas etc. To celebrate new life, new beginnings. Where they are able to see the progress of the trees at least each year and see how the new wood or forest is progressing. I think it would be a nice to encourage a new way of celebrating special events. And perhaps encourage others to do the same around the world especially in areas where trees have been stripped away through deforestation. Please may I have your thoughts and help to achieve this aim of mine. So my family and friends can be more proactive?
total and utter rubbish Modern estate owners and modern Gamekeepers do more for wildlife and there habitats than ever before, if you dont like shooting then fair enough its not for everyone but all of this spin and hype is just total and utter rubbish
The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”. Government responded: Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation. A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain. Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code. The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative. The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Click this link to view the response online: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate. The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee Thanks, The Petitions team UK Government and Parliament
There's a very loud minority who support grouse shooting. But the the majority of the population don't partake in hunting or shooting of any kind and that's why you don't hear their opinions. I would have thought that those who don't partake would be opposed to the idea of grouse shooting for most people wish to help wildlife rather than hinder its recovery and those who don't tend to exhibit psychopathic tendencies. Eventually I hope that humans will realise that they may have to sacrifice their unnecessary hobbies and sports that conflict with the natural world and the well being of the planet
Well said Chris Packham. It is time we made more productive use of the grouse moors by planting trees and actually encouraging all plants and wildlife not creating a selective wasteland in order for morons to blast one species which can barely fly.
yes Alan plant trees . commercial forests would probably pay the same as grouse shooting but the eco system they support is poor and the hen harrier as well as other moorland birds be further put at threat.but I would think as a environmentalist you would know that or are you just a I'll informed activist.and I think the forests would then be used for pheasant shooting.working in harmony is the true way to successful conservation.
+The Kestrel and re wilding would be forests fool that's what was there originally .I think the real issue is the class war.i also think giving out wrong information is to blame for all this the pink wellie brigade come with there university degree ideology and try to change hundreds of years of work.then all go back to driving big cars eating mass produced food wearing synthetic clothing and crying how nature is ill treated.
The Government has refused to ban lead shot so it can't be all that bad. There are very strict and high hygiene standards for game meat. In fact some countries that have banned lead shot are going to allow it again on safety grounds and health grounds
That this government failed to ban lead shot despite clear scientific & medical evidence against it only shows how many of their large donors like field sports ....
John Cantelo Maybe it was because the Lead Ammunition Group was so disjointed and that the scientific evidence was not in favour of banning lead ammunition. Many countries like Sweden and Denmark are repealing the ban on lead ammunition because of the increased danger of steel ammunition to the forestry industry when chopping down trees. Steel shot is hard and damages saw and axe blades if they hit a piece of steel were as lead is soft and won't damage the tools and therefore safer for the user. I also don't think that the vast majority of people and field sports organisations actually donate to political parties. Prove that organisations like BASC, CA, SACS, NGO etc donate to political parties. They are there for their members not to fund political parties. I can quote from the LAG report 'The risks are very low for the general population who consume wild game infrequently' In fact a MP has stated there is more lead in a pint of beer than in a shot game bird. I have eaten a lot game and never come across a shotgun pellet in the meat I have eaten and enjoyed
Do you seriously believe that the CEO of Iceland would sell grouse at the loss you implying because he's a shooter?! You said that a grouse costs 75 quid to shoot, yes to SHOOT but not to buy. grouse shooting earns local rural areas millions per year, and in some very rural places whole community's depend on the jobs driven shooting provides. Stop providing misleading information to thousands, its not fair. And well done on getting shooting banned on likely moor, we have already seen a drop in numbers for every native bird species usually found there not to mention all the local keepers who are jobless.
Christine Stromberg you need to check your mental state, because that made no sense. Grouse is a completely wild and organic food product, that’s as good and humane as it gets
I tell you what why bother with constructive debate anti shooting.hunting groups will never be satisfied until their war as they see it is won't they care not of the truth.i feel sometimes let the few spiteful so called conservationists win. then as the land is no longer viable bulldoze the lot and build on it hsg roads factory's etc.but then my love of the wild and nature kicks in and I think no we must tolerate these people as they are the destroyers as they wish not to work with but against all who do not agree with them.
Funny all comments blocked on pachams site!!! I no wat I’d rather eat free range grouse or chicken that’s been bought in from god no’s who where have a think? He has no idea
Please please don't think shooting is a rich persons sport,people from all walks of life shoot, Chris's clips are well meaning but a little inaccurate, for instance if lead was an issue,which I doubt there are many other forms of shot ie steel etc which can be used,
Chris Packham, could you please explain to me how you expect the thousands and thousands of acres of moorland to be managed if grouse shooting is banned? How do the small rural communities continue to thrive? How to the small village schools, post offices, pubs, village halls all stay open and well used if keeper lose their jobs and no shooting parties visits the areas. Without the income generated by the shoots (as you point out, it's as much as £75 per grouse shot) land owners would not be able to pay for the management of their moors. Pubs and restaurants would lose a valuable winter income and communities would be reduced to the few farmers struggling to make a living. So would you be happy to see this happen to our small rural communities? For the sake of what? Without moorland being properly managed the picture would be bleak - over run with foxes, stoats, rats, crows, magpies. No where for sandpipers, curlews, plovers to nest in the peace and quiet and for families to be driven away from areas that they love, protect and cherish. Your one sided view of grouse shooting is discraceful.
Simple, you leave it the fuck alone.
I beat on a grouse moor and know a lot of keepers who look after them and what they do for wildlife on there moors. And not 1 of them has ever shot trapped or killed any bird of prey. They are so protective of there wildlife the time and effort that goes in to have a healthy biodiversity and keep invasive plants etc in check is amazing. On our moor we have kites peragrin Falcons buzzards etc yes they mite take grouse but that's nature . If the keeper wasn't there the moor wouldn't have grouse because it wouldn't have heather so no grouse no grouse no kites buzzards or my favourite bird that I feel so privileged to see peragrin Falcons. Yes it costs a lot of money to look after a moor so who if not people who shoot is going to pay for it's up keep ?. Not the council look what happened when they tried to ban it at likely and bingley council realised they could not afford to do it hence no ban. Chris packam in my opinion has been brought in 2 this by uneducated fools who have no idea what is going on who wear ski masks and intimidate people who love and care about the country side . He was a very nice young man who I watched with my children when they where young and until this blatant attack on shooting I still watched on Spring watch etc. I will never watch it again while that man is on it. Sorry Chris you have had your pants pulled down by trouble causing idiots.my comments on here will be read by some and I will get threatened on fb or other means but freedom of speach is a thing we take for granted. Please feel free to comment.
i will comment: i upvoted you because, while i agree with him, you're the one person who disagreed using prose and sense and personal experience, not insults. I upvote anyone who contributes to the debate, it's the sludge in the comments that depresses me
Angry about "a blatant attack on shooting" loooooool. You guys. Few bucks short of a shot eh?
So do I packham is a king bellend and ruler of all dickheads
Just wants to make a name for himself and get back in the public light! Amazing what these people do to re-start their Careers! No idea of the good moorland management does for the whole Eco system!
On the moors in the north Pennines they used to mine lead. Perhaps that explains the high lead content of grouse . That is if you believe the analysis Packham quoted
Lead absorbed by red grouse causes brain damage, maybe that’s why most gamekeepers lack 70% of their braincells
Mr Packham will obviously go to any lengths to propagate his anti hunting views. I am surprised he hasn't aired this on the beeb ? Mark Avery's opinions are also well known and substantially biased against shooting. In fact Mr Avery was head of an organisation that killed birds that it portrayed they were trying to protect. I will be shopping more often in M and S. You think that at this uncertain time in our economy Mr Packham would refrain from launching assaults on two industries which give substantial employment rather than cause people to lose them.
Oh shut up lad, you’re spouting absolute tripe.
The Moors are the Moors because of grouse shooting
Managed to listen to the first minute....he then started whinging about the CEO of Iceland who apparently shoots all the Grouse that Iceland sells. Lets talk about things that get the ill-educated public in a tiss shall we. Get a feeling he has tried Grouse shooting himself, managed to miss all the birds put took out a beater and 2 dogs. Got himself kicked off the shoot and is now sulking.
Bogus inaccurate nonsense
Yes you are talking nonsense.
See also this article by George Monbiot linking the drainage of grouse moors to some of the severe flooding in recent years www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land
No more shopping in Marks and Spencer and Iceland.
I stood in a book shop and ripped pages out of that book in front of members of staff then walked out
I worked on an estate with a grouse shoot for 3 months and I believe driven grouse shooting should be banned. I think walked up grouse shooting is different and extremely challenging for the gun and should be allowed with careful restrictions to avoid it becoming commercialised.
The RSPB cannot campaign against shooting of game birds because its Royal Charter explicitly forbids it. Just think about that for a moment,
And the RSPB was also founded by a kean wildfowler. Now you think about that for a second twat. Some of the greatest conservationists are hunters
Does Mr Packham have permission to be on private land in a grouse butt whilst at the same time exhorting us to ban grouse shooting. I doubt it.I thought he was a vegetarian and as such wouldn't be eating meat of any sort.Strange fellow, who is he?
Sorry Chris, but on the labeling it does state 'may contain lead shot' so we can all make our own choices can't we?
please sub to me
teignghost1 hahaaa I remember when we used to be allowed choice and free will 😞 those were the days
Lead has been banned here for a while now. We use steel shot & we can't sell wild meat. We also strictly enforce bag limits on how many you can harvest. Alberta Canada
well done chris you have killed more grouse in the latest moor fire then was shot all last season what a prat .
Claire McDay: Putting the "Storm Desmond" floods into context.
On the 5th December 2015, the rain gauge at Honister Pass in the Lake District, recorded 341.4mm of rain. This is a new record for UK rainfall, and has been evaluated as a 1 in 1300year event, which means that in any given year the probability of the highest rainfall being large than 341.4 MM. is 0.08%. The rain gauge at Thirlmere recorded 405mm over 48 hours which is also a new UK rainfall record.
This period of extremely heavy rain came on top of five weeks of persistent rain which lead to the ground being completely saturated. The intense rainfall of the 4th and 5th of December really was a perfect storm which lead in combination with saturated water tables, to the severe flooding in most parts of Cumbria and north Lancashire.
Should you be on that land?
Thumbs up.
100% Farmers do more to promote wild life in one year than you have done in your life.
Nonsense Chris, your entire analysis is based on supporting statements designed to arrive you at the conclusion you desire! As for lead in the birds if you're so mentally incapacitated that you could not spit it out when you encounter a piece of shot. Then perhaps solid food just isn't for you.
Packham on somesort of sad lonersome crusade, trying to mug the public of with his uninformed opinion and making out that it is fact. BBC need to sack this sad act from their broadcasting
@TheNatureLover no nead to swear, but it's what I'd expect from the thugary of antis. One of the problems with Packham is the fact he does ignor what anybody else thinks. I can guarente I put more effort in than most antis into the population and conservation of many species, so please don't swear at me, and make out you know anything about me. Because you dont.
It won't happen though - Packham's too good at riling the upper classes, and Auntie Beeb loves anything like that.
It's a bit misleading to base all this on a sample of "some grouse" without giving an indication of how many "some" are. The amount of lead will vary massively from one bird to another. Legal limits for lead in game have been considered by the people who set them for other meats for many years and it was agreed that because of the massive variation of lead levels in game shot with lead, that it made more sense to give to manage risk. The alternative is wasting lots and lots of meat. Liz Truss, an MP well known for being anti-shooting, said the the recent lead ammunition report “did not show that the impacts of lead ammunition were significant enough to justify changing current policy”. Plus, even people who eat game regularly don't eat *so* much of it that they're at major risk. And let's face it, Mr Packham doesn't really care whether you eat grouse shot with a lead cartridge; he just wants *driven* grouse shooting banned. Are grouse shot on walked-up shoots not shot with lead cartridges as well?
Keep your nose out
Exactly the type of comment I’d expect from a 🤡 like you .
This is why he wont be the next Attenborough.
A shame really.
Just been thinking about the vast number of professions that are linked with the grouse shooting industry. So here are a few of those people that could go out of business if grouse shooting was banned....tailors (who hand make all the keeper suits and many of the land owners etc), wallers (maintain the miles of miles of stone walling on moors) sawmills and builders and quarries that supply material to build that butt you were standing in Chris and stone for all the roads, gunsmiths, shooting outlets and caterers who provide the shoot party lunches. I'm sure given more time I could go on and on. So there is a bigger price to pay for your witch hunt and it's called taking away people's right to earn a living! If you don't want to ingest the almost non existent amount of lead present in game birds then I suggest you simply don't buy it. But a complete ban on grouse shooting is not going to make our country side sustainable.
The same old(e) sad rhetoric n soundbites , I'm a countryman n you people r tory thugs , you r tastiest foxes of them all no identity want to belong to your cosy backstabbing vermin club , you sinister crafty spoilt devil's doin just what you want
Fucking good.
Here's a question for you Chris, who the hell is going to do the conservation work ,if grouse shooting were to be banned ???
Grouse eat one thing and one thing only. ...Heather and they prefer new growth. .
Keepered moors benefit other ground nesting birds .
Please take your speech impediment and fwec off.
The pace brothers of the into the wilderness series and podcast are wanting a debate with you about the pros and cons of grouse shooting, why have you not responded to them Chris? Surely if you feel as passionate as you say about having it banned you wouldn't mind the publicity? Or do you fear it may sway some folk the other way?
BRAVO Chris Packham for pointing out one of the countless reasons why grouse shooting is an abhorrent practice. It serves absolutely no purpose other than satisfying (?) the bloodlust of a sadistic minority - and lining the pockets of large estates. I don't buy at Iceland anyway and have recently stopped buying anything from M&S.
But he hasn't. He's talking about lead in meat, not about shooting anything. And if it's so abhorrent, shouldn't he be talking about *all* grouse shooting?
Where you shop - your choice
well said Chris. interesting point Mark discovered about lead contamination of grouse. you have a lot of silly comments left under this film, obviously by gun fanatics and people who classify killing helpless creatures as a sport so rather than take part in a polite debate, the realisation that their hobbies could be removed has also removed their ability to type propely too. keep the films coming...
Anneka Svenska ha ha ha anti people chris packham says British people should stop having children as to many people live here.he says stop looking to cure cancer.the man is a fool a anti Christ and he has sad sick followers.
I'll informed Mr P.
Anyway, we have steel shot available also 😁.
I shoot clays never had a inclination of shooting birds or even Grouse
Get your names down on that petition let's get him off the TV. Packham to be sacked.
Why does he have interests in keeping wild animals in a zoo. May be t make money by claiming it's a charity URM
So he wants to see all grouse extinct which isn't good for a naturalist
Where did he say that? He didn't did he?
And how did grouse evolve before men in tweed were burning and draining the hills for them? And how do they survive so well all round the world where the eis no driven grouse shooting? It's a very poor argument - in fact it's no argument at all.
Hi Chris, what is the effect of all the lead being shot/spread every year on the quality of the water in the area?
Nil
@@mike02439how the fuck do you know you’re a 🤡
Packham you don’t know what your talking about 🤪
Are you pissed?
@@shakeybeatz not yet , too early.
well said chris, ill stick to waitrose
All the usual eco-warrior claptrap. Light on facts heavy on rhetoric. 75% of the worlds heather moorland is in the UK and it needs to be managed. The income from shooting helps maintain and improve this habitat. Sheep grazing has caused huge loss of this habitat and reduced bio-diversity and many moor owners now spend huge sums trying reverse this process. Managed shooting moorland supports three to five times the number of lapwing, golden plover, curlew and redshank and ring ouzel of non-shooting estates.
yes I like grouse, a pleasure to cook as a chef, I like ina Botham , one of my heores.. I lie chris packham.. with all the stories in media these days, rights and wongs.. its a wonder humans do anything right .. we might as well stay in bed..
chefblanc exactly mate,well said,now you can’t even shoot pigeon which we’ve been doing for centuries and there’s now more pigeon than ever
What a distorted view. I'm not arguing about the lead levels if you take into account all the shot found in the bird. If you then take this out, as you would when you eat the bird, the levels will be completely fine. Pachams rationale is flawed as always.
Nice one Chris
Omg these comments are so horrible. Let's weigh up the pros and cons and see what can be done to benefit us all. I would probably say not poisening raptors, birds of prey etc is a start. Let's think about who is paying who to do what and look at better ways to spend money etc
So the one grouse had a pellet in it
Top stuff! Chris!
You are torking out of your back side grouse mores do so much for wildlife just take a look were there aren't working grouse there's nothing need I say more
Anything to take away the pleasures of the hunting and shooting classes eh, Chris?
What a tool.
One for those still in denial about the role of grouse industry in the illegal persecution of raptors - on 27th June 2016 an illegally set trap and rabbit bait was found on a grouse moor (Invercauld Estate) with a fatally injured gull in its jaws (although such traps were clearly after bigger prey). Clear evidence was later "found that eight similar traps had been deployed, attached to stakes and baited with dead rabbits, in a line stretching two hundred metres across the moor. It was also evident that these traps had been removed very recently". One doesn't have to be very cynical to imagine the hiatus between the original discovery and the later finds was profitably used to warn the 'right people' to remove further evidence. The estate has issued a statement saying that they were "extremely concerned by such an allegation" (I bet they were!) but then, laughably, implied it was part of a plot to "discredit the grouse industry". Quite why such devious plotters would have first set the line of traps and then, once discovered, diligently removed the evidence before they could be discovered and exploited defies the imagination. Grouse moors are big places and the chances of an actively deployed line of illegal traps being discovered at all must be small. No evidence of systemic persecution? Really?
Strange John, that no-one has replied to your latest . I wonder why? I thought they always had something to say... even James is keeping his head down!
Completely mystifying, Ardmaraig ........ not. They do have a habit of not answering any question that is at all embarrassing. I'm still waiting to hear why it's OK for them to use BBC (not just BBC celebs but paying for a virulently pro-field sports programme & book) but not others - I've posed the question several times and never got a sensible response.
how many raptors are killed by pigeon flyers mate.how many birds are killed by cats.sorry lots of rspb owners have cats so you don't want their money to stop. the killing of raptors is illegal and those who do it should be punished but don't target everyone the same.lots of good work is don't by hunters but you are always blinkered in view. your own agenda is floored and you know it game shooting money keeps your hen harrier going along with other at risk birds.clever people know they plough millions more into conservation than the rspb.
+The Kestrel
see there you are thank you the truth finally rich few that's your class argument and the cruel means you are against all hunting methods.so it's not about conservation at all.evidence means nothing to the narrow minded.bye
+The Kestrel shot in the head.you have no idea what hunting is about do you.look you have a education issue.hunters respect there Quarry far more than you will ever.you look at life through rose tinted glasses had the utopia you seek dose not exist.
Well done Chris.
"Packham out Packham in, let me begin" - Chris Packham having sex
u no brainer, good on chris packham
Trying to message Chris can't get him on Twitter (dislike twitter as well)
I would like to know if he has any contacts with land owners that;
Would be happy with people planting trees to create new wood or forest?
I think it would be nice to encourage my family and friends to plant a trees for; births, weddings, anniversaries, christmas etc.
To celebrate new life, new beginnings.
Where they are able to see the progress of the trees at least each year and see how the new wood or forest is progressing.
I think it would be a nice to encourage a new way of celebrating special events. And perhaps encourage others to do the same around the world especially in areas where trees have been stripped away through deforestation.
Please may I have your thoughts and help to achieve this aim of mine. So my family and friends can be more proactive?
total and utter rubbish Modern estate owners and modern Gamekeepers do more for wildlife and there habitats than ever before, if you dont like shooting then fair enough its not for everyone but all of this spin and hype is just total and utter rubbish
The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”.
Government responded:
Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation.
A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain.
Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code.
The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative.
The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected.
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Click this link to view the response online:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes
The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.
The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
Do you have any videos of crows pecking out lambs eyes? It’s always good to watch isn’t it? I’d of thyroid of already done a video
There's a very loud minority who support grouse shooting. But the the majority of the population don't partake in hunting or shooting of any kind and that's why you don't hear their opinions. I would have thought that those who don't partake would be opposed to the idea of grouse shooting for most people wish to help wildlife rather than hinder its recovery and those who don't tend to exhibit psychopathic tendencies. Eventually I hope that humans will realise that they may have to sacrifice their unnecessary hobbies and sports that conflict with the natural world and the well being of the planet
Actually fishing is the nation's most popular sport.
Fishing is hunting.
Driven shooting is more popular than golf.
Well said Chris Packham. It is time we made more productive use of the grouse moors by planting trees and actually encouraging all plants and wildlife not creating a selective wasteland in order for morons to blast one species which can barely fly.
Dear Oh Dear spoken from true ignorance of the biodiversity to be seen on a well kept moor
I totally agree with you
JUst subbed to you as well
Maybe you could sub back
yes Alan plant trees . commercial forests would probably pay the same as grouse shooting but the eco system they support is poor and the hen harrier as well as other moorland birds be further put at threat.but I would think as a environmentalist you would know that or are you just a I'll informed activist.and I think the forests would then be used for pheasant shooting.working in harmony is the true way to successful conservation.
+The Kestrel by who.if the land is not managed.
+The Kestrel and re wilding would be forests fool that's what was there originally .I think the real issue is the class war.i also think giving out wrong information is to blame for all this the pink wellie brigade come with there university degree ideology and try to change hundreds of years of work.then all go back to driving big cars eating mass produced food wearing synthetic clothing and crying how nature is ill treated.
It’s great to see so much support in the fight against packham and cronies!
Maybe soon he will get the message
Hes got a link missing
So we are eating toxic food
What a lot of drivel. I eat grouse and love it. There is more lead in a pint of beer than in grouse
So, you'll have the official figures to back that up, yes?
How much lead IS there in a pint of beer then? Is it 3,699 times the legal limit for meats other than grouse?
The Government has refused to ban lead shot so it can't be all that bad. There are very strict and high hygiene standards for game meat. In fact some countries that have banned lead shot are going to allow it again on safety grounds and health grounds
That this government failed to ban lead shot despite clear scientific & medical evidence against it only shows how many of their large donors like field sports ....
John Cantelo Maybe it was because the Lead Ammunition Group was so disjointed and that the scientific evidence was not in favour of banning lead ammunition. Many countries like Sweden and Denmark are repealing the ban on lead ammunition because of the increased danger of steel ammunition to the forestry industry when chopping down trees. Steel shot is hard and damages saw and axe blades if they hit a piece of steel were as lead is soft and won't damage the tools and therefore safer for the user.
I also don't think that the vast majority of people and field sports organisations actually donate to political parties. Prove that organisations like BASC, CA, SACS, NGO etc donate to political parties. They are there for their members not to fund political parties.
I can quote from the LAG report 'The risks are very low for the general population who consume wild game infrequently' In fact a MP has stated there is more lead in a pint of beer than in a shot game bird. I have eaten a lot game and never come across a shotgun pellet in the meat I have eaten and enjoyed
Do you seriously believe that the CEO of Iceland would sell grouse at the loss you implying because he's a shooter?! You said that a grouse costs 75 quid to shoot, yes to SHOOT but not to buy. grouse shooting earns local rural areas millions per year, and in some very rural places whole community's depend on the jobs driven shooting provides. Stop providing misleading information to thousands, its not fair. And well done on getting shooting banned on likely moor, we have already seen a drop in numbers for every native bird species usually found there not to mention all the local keepers who are jobless.
This might explain the mental states of people who eat a lot of grouse. Or not.
Christine Stromberg you need to check your mental state, because that made no sense. Grouse is a completely wild and organic food product, that’s as good and humane as it gets
Its Packham that has the mental disorder.......
I tell you what why bother with constructive debate anti shooting.hunting groups will never be satisfied until their war as they see it is won't they care not of the truth.i feel sometimes let the few spiteful so called conservationists win. then as the land is no longer viable bulldoze the lot and build on it hsg roads factory's etc.but then my love of the wild and nature kicks in and I think no we must tolerate these people as they are the destroyers as they wish not to work with but against all who do not agree with them.
chris prickham
It just doesn't make sense does it? Driven Grouse Shooting must end.
Stewart Abbott explain to me why you think grouse shooting should end?
Why ? Because a few Packham types say so ?
Funny all comments blocked on pachams site!!! I no wat I’d rather eat free range grouse or chicken that’s been bought in from god no’s who where have a think? He has no idea
Packham Liar, LIAR, LIAR!
Well done Chris
please sub to me
huzar!
How can you ban something that is found naturally in the environment.
Well dome Chris Packham!
Please please don't think shooting is a rich persons sport,people from all walks of life shoot, Chris's clips are well meaning but a little inaccurate, for instance if lead was an issue,which I doubt there are many other forms of shot ie steel etc which can be used,
Bellend.
do you support the RSPB ?