Do Ace Pilots Matter In Warthunder?
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Taking a look at pilot crew skills, and doing a direct before-and-after comparison with a regular pilot, then upgrading to full maxed out ace pilot.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro To Pilot Skills
03:44 Match 1 : Regular Pilot
07:06 Upgrading The Pilot
09:02 Match 2 : Ace Pilot
11:55 Final Thoughts - Hry
Just to add, getting the reduced cost and eventually "free" Ace from RP on the vehicle ONLY starts contributing when you purchase the Expert crew. It will not retroactively take into account RP earned on the vehicle while it is at Basic crew level
Yup, which is total BS if you ask me...
@@TinchoX consider that lions are purchasable with eagles, and there are people who spend money on SL when they feel pressured by the SL grind, gaijin has no reason NOT to make the SL grind as painful as possible. Making aircraft impossible to control without an expert crew keeps those lions low.
@@Hadgerz More like keeps new players away
the prize for experting is stupid, is like buying the plane again WTF?
@@Hadgerz if you cant pay sl to expert a crew then you must be absolute shit at the game i have been grinding every nation free to play no premium spading every vehicle in the game i have well over half of all aircraft unlocked and spaded with expert crew for every vehicle assigned to a crew before i even play it one time and am currently sitting on over 18milion sl and would be a lot more but i have bought close to 100 gambling crates and a ton from the last one earning sl is so easy the only way you can be having a hard time is if you are getting killed most of the time without doing anything if that is the case then it is not a problem with the game it is a you problem learn to play better and quit crying like a typical casual gamer that wants his hand held and everything done for him like a child i would be willing to bet money that you bought your way into top tier while having barely played the game and didnt take the time to learn how to play
@@paktahn similiar here, just slightly less SL
Definitely. Without upgrading skills top tier is a nightmare.
With or without upgrade, top tier is mess and nightmare.
Ace skill is a difference between a nuke and a good match
@@phunkracy nah
Depends on where you draw the line, I don't spend GE, I have lvl 75 crew and I expert the crew, but not ace it.
Not only top tier. Starts with 9.3. For example flying something like ariete or mig19s without at least expert crew is like playing with a feet
I got my first ace crew on Israeli premium A4. And damn, its like blackouts stopped to exist. Difference even with Expert was so significant it shocked me.
With some aircraft, even an expert pilot can almost totally eliminate g-loc blackouts.
@@TimsVarietyothers, like the ki-200, go from a horrid nuisance to an absolute freakish nightmare. Regularly defeating multiple 9Ls at a time with maneuver alone feels alien
@@TimsVarietyCan confirm. Some aircraft can easily 0 their blackout by simply rolling the opposite way in relation to wether you’re turning (e.g. You’re making a right hand turn, you roll left)
Once you taste ace pilot, it's so hard to go back to normal/expert pilot.
I feel the same about tank crew
Exactly the kind of information that should be out and available for players. You keep hitting the nail on the head, Tim. Really hope this one blows up.
I just recently aced my crew on my F105 and F111 (for free btw) and it made a huge difference!
how did you do it for free? playing it a ungodly ammount?
@@trollking7046 yes
@@GooberD understandable
@@trollking7046 what explain
@@nouser935 he aced his f111 and f105 by playing it un ungodly ammount
Expert crew qualifications are important because they give you a flat out +3 on every skill. Because of this, I think the best way to level out crews is to first get each crew to a level where you can buy expert qualifications for the tier of your vehicle.
This means, instead of directly putting points in the most critical (and the most expensive) skill slots, it's better to spread out crew points evenly, even on the "dump stats". Putting points in crew skills that are cheap to upgrade allows you to quickly get the crew to a level where you can buy Expert qualification. The +3 skill increase from Expert crew gets you to a higher skill level in critical skills faster than if you just put points on the critical skills alone.
After you have reached a level where you can get Expert qualification for your vehicle of choice, then you should focus on putting crew experience points on the critical skills. For planes, that would be G-Force Tolerance, Stamina, and Weapon Maintenance (and for gunners, Precision and Accuracy). For tanks, it would be gunner's Targeting skill, loader's Reloading, commander's Leadership, and possibly driver's Driving skill (though that is debatable), and secondary skills would be Agility and Field Repairs on all crew members, followed by Vitality and Keen Vision.
Ace qualification, by contrast, is not *as* important but it can still give an edge on planes that rely on sustained high-G turns. That said I would not waste Golden Eagles on Ace crews. Rather I just play a vehicle and eventually get the Ace crew upgrade for free.
i think that all depends on what teir you are playing at and if you are not one of the thousands of retards that bought their way into higher tiers if you are naturally progressing through the tree then imho if you dont have premium putting points into repair speed and repair rank while turning off auto repair is the first priority as it affects air land and sea vehicles and will save a shit load of sl especially if you play more than one nation by the time you get to the higher tiers you should have enough points to unlock expert crew also using crews for specific aircraft types like bombers help because a fighter crew needs no points for gunners until you get to higher tiers to unlock expert which i believe requires crew level 60 if you max out the repair speed and rank its enough a head start for naval and ground if you are planning to play those with the same crew i fully agree about not using ge to ace a crew you would be better of using that ge for a talisman if it is a vehicle you are going to play alot as it will earn you much more rp and you will get the ace crew for free even faster
The only top tier plane I have upgraded is the F-15, and I noticed the difference immediately. Haven't given him the ace upgrade yet, but I'm either going to do it with that one or the F-16C. Man I love AIM9Ms lol. Thank you for sacrificing some of your GE to the greedy snot rockets at Gaijin for us to see this video Tim! We appreciate it!
Apparently IRL viper pilots need to be able to sustain 9G for 30 seconds in order to remain eligible to fly it. A lot of them can go longer than 30sec.
Taking into account the way gaijin models aircraft (in RB anyway) to pull ~1.5x their real-world limits, i don't think it's too much to ask that expert crews be able to do hard pulls of >9Gs for 30sec before losing control, and Ace crews (the best of the best) longer than 30sec.
just neg g
Working on ace for the f15a currently (for free). It literally feels like you get 2x longer g load with just expert alone. Maybe with ace ill actually compete with a basic crew grippy
You’re awesome! No videos like this out there. Showed the difference very well. At first I wanted a deliberate full elevator turn at a certain speed comparison but I think the first high g turns in both games told the story perfectly fine and did so in a real game environment. I appreciate every video you make! Makes me wish you were in my local government haha. Who knows maybe you are… but I doubt it 😂
Retired - for now. :-)
Tim, as always; Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. They’re very professional, well organized, and very thorough. Your radar and missile tutorials/info videos most likely has helped thousands of players better understand the game and what they some up against in matches. I wish more creators took the time to make in-depth videos and not just the *insert some in-context meme sound to low effort game clip* compilations. Your effort is appreciated sir!
10:38 “snap shot”. 😂 bro that was a skyflash
Yeah, I had the wrong weapon selected. It happens.
@@TimsVariety yeah
This video is exactly why I subscribed to you dude! Thank you
For those who didn't count, it took 6 seconds for his pilot to black out at level 5 everything not aced or experr crew, and his pilot was blacked out for 4 seconds
I know it's a small thing and would've taken a tiny bit more time, but I honestly would've liked to have seen a comparison with an Expert crew thrown in as well, just to see if it's absolutely worth going from Expert *to* Ace.
It is, trust me I got the xp50 ace for free and going from expert to ace was about equivalent from going from base crew to expert (assuming lvl75 crew)
@@Asspiss100 no it isnt that big of a difference it only adds 3 points to each stat its only worth it is its something you are going to play a lot but if that is the case then using the ge to but a talisman is better cause you get a permanent rp boost from the vehicle and will earn the ace free in half the time it would normally take
@@paktahn you go from not being able to turn for shit, to being able to turn well and compete, to being able to turn very well and not black out. I'd call that massive improvement
great video. been playing top tier for so long and never realized why i would spend so many SL on my crew but i now realize how game changing this is.
One thing you missed is the "Keen Vision" upgrade actually effects how soon you can launch an air-to-air missile after acquiring a lock. Not relevant for majority of planes, but in top tier having a 2 second delay between lock and launch and a .5 second delay can be a huge gap between an Ace crew and an un upgraded crew.
It’s crazy to me how u don’t have more subscribers, ur content is awesome and really put together well
This is for people like you and me . Learning from others and play fairly is one thing , but kids or ( cheaters ) will just do what they used to do . " talking about cheaters , is for all games , and I have seen plenty of them in more than 20 years playing ".
I have learn many things on YT players who posted some of their videos ( Good or Not ) , Yep we can also learn from errors others did .
meanwhile nothing beats the eye sight spotting of dark dots in the sky...
I only have a fully aced pilot on the F-5E, but it is so worthwhile with a maneuver fighter like that. It's just unfortunate that you're having to spend around 1mill SL for most missile-tier jets.
It would be harder to test, but I'd be curious to see how bomber crew handle being aced vs being brand new-ish. I have a few decently trained gunners that are really solid, where by default they feel borderline useless.
DCS has Mat.... WT has you! Great job man!
really good info, thanks for breaking it down!
Hey, nice video, I have a suggestion, If you are going to test the range at what the pilot spots enemies switch off radar, the pilot with radar on and radar off have different detections.
Keep the good content coming! c:
very good video bro so helpful
Thanks Tim
I've been playing since 2012, and while the info you share here has been relevant since then, it is always nice to see someone answering the basic questions in an easy to understand way for newer players.
I started teaching newer people how to fly in wt about two or so years ago now, and while the concepts are easy to describe, sometimes it is much easier for some people to see a raw comparison like this for themselves to truly grasp the difference. I rarely send people to videos, but yours are an exception.
Keep up the good work.
Also worth mentioning that, since you can get an Ace crew by gaining RP with the vehicle, you unlock it faster with premium/talisman'd vehicles (due to the RP bonus).
IMO, for dogfighters definitely.
Its almost mandatory for any dogfighter planes above like, rank 4.
g tolerance and stamina are the most useful at every br , you can't do the tight and fast turns prop planes are known for without good g tolerance or stamina . So it makes dogfights greatly more difficult since certain flight paths will result in a blackout. in early to late jets you can't even do basic hard turns for longer than like 2 seconds without blacking out and than waiting 3 seconds to come back
I've been trying to get the JAS39C for quite a while now and the grind is killing me, as a South African I NEED it
Its worth it, keep going!
Someone probably commented this already, but the weapon maintenance stat DOES decrease rocket spread. For one of my planes (F104J) it actually changes the in-game text on the crew menu saying by how much it decreases. I think it only shows in planes that can carry rockets but not bombs.
here in 24 seconds, new personal best
You’re great Tim!
Thank you so much!
if you have a plane with rockets or with rockets equipped
the weapon maintanence stat says it impacts rocket spread
depending on the rocket it is different i think
Expert is a must! I don't bother with Ace and got it only on few planes that I play for long time.
I think it's worth noting that the longer you stay in the game the worse it gets. At least that's what they tell us in regards to pilot Stamina. Idk if it resets upon landing and taking off again or if it's overall time in game. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's just more info the snail gives us that isn't actually a thing.
You just confirmed my thought about the upgrades , but upgrading in Top tierce is a pain in ass .
Example : If you are targeting the F-14 tree , you will have to unlock and buy some planes that will do nothing good at lvl above BR 6.7 . they will not be able to match with all those BR 10 and above , in speed and armament , You can`t even put them in the Assault Arcade mode to make some upgrade .
Upgrading to Expert already make a difference and better when Ace .
I play mainly Bombers because of high ping i have ( 230 minimum lol ) I am far from the servers . So I am bound to avoid Dog fights .
You did a great job , Keep it up , I have much to learn lol .
Can people stop with the "bro fell off" comments? Where did this trend even come from?
Either way, it's unproductive.
Thank you Tim for another great video about lesser known mechanics.
bro fell off
IMHO its just a little humor, all in good spirits.
Great Video
thanks for the sacrifice
Good video on a subject I haven't really seen covered. Amazing to see the difference upgraded pilot skills make.
silence! papa Tim just uploaded.
I got the mirage 2000 from the event a little while ago, and I have never played france, and holy SHIT. An unleveled pilot in top tier is an instant death sentence, especially when compared to my expert (not a p2p nerd so no ace) su27.
I just wish keen vision and awareness did anything in sim. I know it's not a super popular mode, but it still sucks that they are dead skills for sim
The Expert SL cost is 1:1 the purchase cost of the vehicle.
I use a 3.7 BR J26 David (Sweden) for CAS and with Ace crew it can repair and reload in 9-10 sec
I like the video, but I do think that it would have been worth the effort to make a side by side comparison where you see basic vs ace crew at the same time.
For example going 0.95 mach and pulling max elevator until blackout, you will see how much further you could turn before blacking out and how long the recovery time is.
TLDR quantify the differences instead of just seeing that it is a bit better but you don't really know by how much.
It matters the most in G related skills. Some of planes change from unplayable to comfortable.
Is this the difference between a maxed crew and a max crew plus both qualifications?
Ah, bummer, I really wanted to see you try this thing on a lvl1 crew. :3
Since I nowadays started to put early jets on new crew slots as low as lvl 15 just to not waste crew xp on my maxed out crew slot. Often I start the stock grind like this. It increases the handicap and the frustration. Very very masochistic.
Anyway, I have the A6M5 ko aced for multiple crew slots, and it makes a big difference.
Brother I’m not gonna lie. I didn’t even know this was a thing. So this is why planes that shouldn’t be turning as hard as me outrun me sometimes. Makes so much sense lol. On my way to buy more GE now! 😃
The differnece between expert and the ace would be also nice to see. I never spent any GE on aces but always grind them. So most of the time I am at expert Level. When the Pilot moves from expert to ace you will see the differences quite a lot imho.
Anyway. I like the Video. As realistics player I do put first All points in to g tolerance and stamina. After that I Look that the repair rank and is pacing with the rank of the plane and keeping Balance with awareness. Most less important is vitality. At least at the top tier which I am playing. In most of the cases it doesnt matter much if your pilot surives or not a missile hit
10:41 "Snapshot" forgets he fired a Skyflash and kills the lock
Yep, had the wrong weapon selected. It happens.
@@TimsVariety For sure. It’s a bit better now that they fixed the weapon selector. Cycling through 2 sets of R-73s or 9Ms was certainly not fun.
Ace Pilots are just like "Who needs to breathe, i need to turn"
Funnily enough, the only comparison I was interested in is the jump from expert to ace, since it's easy to get things expert for free, but not ace. But apparently that wasn't interesting enough
I remember grinding like mad in my MiG-23ML in order to get my crew to Expert level (I had freshly started the soviet tree with said MiG after already finishing the US air tree).
It turned the 23ML from the stereotypical boom and zoom craft into a capable dogfighter.
So yeah, Id say its worth it. ^^
lol getting any info from the snail
Ace pilot in some jets makes difference between OK and great. In JA35s for example.
@Tim's Reload Skills also affect how FAST your plane reloads after landing
Do you have a video for tanks??. Thanks
Do you plan on making a new "Grinding Upgrades In Stock Jets" video? It's been away, a lot of stuff has changed in War Thunder and top tier jets stock grind is painfully.
Yep, that one is on the list.
I just have to pick a jet....
Tim how do gunner stats work on aircraft like the f14 that dont have turrets but have gunners, does it do anything
As far as I know, it does nothing - the gunner stats only matter for bombers with actual turret-gunners that shoot at things.
You never knew that you could reach the top qualification without having to pay for it I've had my JU288 without it and I could have earned it this whole time wow
Free skill is 50% and expert is 30%.. ace makes up the last 20% for pilots so just getting expert gets you 80% of the way there which is the most important part.
i do find a big difference in the expert to ace. i feel like its a bigger jump in ability than going from basic to expert.
Because i don't buy Golden Eagles in WT, all my Top Tier Jets Pilots for (F-14A, F-16A, F-15A, F-14B, F-16C & F-4J) are in Expert only, probably later on gonna try for Ace Pilot Skills but later.
PRO TIP buy expert and then grind ace (gives u some obj to go for)
I have 4 aced jets the f5c, the f16, the f14, and the f4s
The f14 is also talismaned
think the expert pilot cost is like the vehicle cost or very close to it
Does the RIO/WSO in the twin seat fighters count as a pilot or a gunner?
A pilot or neither, I've never gotten a straight answer about that out of the snail, but they don't count as a gunner unless they're in a turret that can shoot.
Hey Tim, while watching this video I couldn't help but notice that you have a few rewards from the battle pass that you must've looked over, I, along with many others, would appreciate if you claimed those rewards, which, if you haven't figured out yet, has no drawbacks. Thank you
yeah it does if he has the max warbonds amount and claims he will lose them i usually wait until season is about to end to see what premiums are in the next warbonds shop before buying one of the current ones and anything else i want then i spend and claim
I always just stick with expert. It gives me enough of a buff that it gets the job done. If i get the Ace for free waaaaaay down the line, thats great, but not really needed
Short answer yes, long answer absolutely
How does pilot attributes affect getting uptier/downtier matches?
Nope
I feel like they should add ace qualifications for purchased vehicles to trophies, like how you can get talismans.
um no that would further reduce the chance for a talisman which is worth way more its already quite rare to get one i have over 4.7 k hours and have only got maybe 15 free talismans in that time adding ace to the pool would reduce the chance by a lot
0:25 Sorry, I'm not a War Thunder player, but did you say that the Swedish Saab JAS-39C is in the British Tech tree? How bizarre.
They gave the UK tree the South African Gripen ....
I genuinely can't tell the difference from expert to ace. However I do get expert and get ace for free by just playing it. That's how I did it for the F4S. I got ace completely free and very fast
Keen vision also affects how far out vehicles and missiles render which is beyond dumb to me
I'd say it's worth
You explained Repair speed and Reload speed quite poorly. They both speed up how fast you can repair and rearm on an airfield in realistic battles. Maxing them out can give you a reload and repair speed of about 10 to 15 seconds.
Expert makes a huge difference for the high g-loads but Ace is not that necessary in my opinion.
Keen vision does not matter, the spotting is currently horrendous as enemies spawn out of nowhere with missiles, especially in top tier
Specifically about Expert crew, it simply cost as much as the plane did.
You'd think it'd wost as much as training your crew, maybe double, but nope, it's the price of the aircraft.
it isnt a big deal sl is easy to earn im sitting on almost 20 mil and expert and spade everything
@@paktahn okay tough guy
Crew skill has to be up there as my most hated mechanic. It just doesn’t scale properly and when working through a tree it’s easy to get to jets without having them maxed out. Then you just get to play with a ridiculous handicap. Even worse in those early mid jets without flares where manoeuvring hard is your only counter to missiles.
Add in that that gaijin has gone mad for high tier premiums I think it’s just this horrible handicap that almost forces you to spend cash just to get a chance.
Basically it’s a mechanic that worked in the game ten years ago, now it’s god-awful.
Definitely. At best, it’s an advantage for players who really don’t need it. At worst it’s just another pay-to-win mechanic.
@@Tom-jw7ii amen!
I feel that Ace crews lean towards P2W: the RP requirement is ridiculous, particularly when it only starts accumulating after purchasing an expert crew.
I've never unlocked an ace crew in my disgusting amount of hours.
Omg
I was just thinking of making such research)) Noosphere for real 👀
So defensive armaments have zero correlation to pilot aim?
In ground battles ace crew gives faster reload, repair, more resistance to damage etc. as you play with lineups you gather the experience much more slowly and need to use more silver lions for the expert levels. Overall the effect is very pronounced in ground battles and it is one of the most pay to win aspects of the game simply due to how long it takes to gather the experience
it isnt pay to win i have never spent a penny on the game in over 4.7k hours and have no problem winning in ground positioning is everything its far more important than air in both if someone gets the drop on you you fucked up either picked a bad spot or got too aggressive or are just dumb
I usually use premium planes to add points to my tank crew. 😂
You know what, I used to watch the European Canadian for war thunder, then i realised how much he annoyed me. He’s so arrogant. So Now I only watch you, you’re a great CZcamsr Tim!
he is definitely arrogant but he does put out quality content
@@paktahn it’s just bait content
o7
The first clip is my experience do far (im stock)
I wish we never had crew training.
Yo Tim, I think you upload the vid in 4k but your game is running on a lower resolution.
I record in 1440p, and encode in 4k. Then youtube does whoknowswhat when "processing" the vid after its uploaded.
I grinded for ace I my mig 3 bk becuase I got the premium tag on it for free
You are kidding yourself if you think crew skills aren't P2W and make a difference. A fresh pilot in a jet or even a late ww2 plane can't even pull a turn without passing out early into it. The only equalizer and why it's hated is an unseen incoming missile, unless the basic crewed plane gets a perfect pass a gun-kill is almost impossible.
Is your graphics Ultra high?
Not quite ultra high, but close - I turn a few shadow settings down, etc etc.
The groan of discomfort when you wasted 1Million SL for a video 🤣
Omg then the GE
@@Ryan-go6id Gotta deliver for my subscribers.
that is only like maybe 5 good games with a booster if you are free to play even less if you have premium it isnt hard to earn a mil in 2 hours
@@TimsVarietyFor future reference, you can train the vehicle in a different slot and it will be a n00bish crew…I hate to say it after the fact lol
IMO, dont sleep on crew skills. Especially mid tier vehicles that most new players are still playing. Its almost criminal compared to the crew that those new players are using. Feels like seal clubbing sometimes lol.
100% crew skill = 50% crew skill maxed + 30% expert + 20% ace
I don't think spending GE on a +20% is a good idea, spending on crew skill is valid, though you'll get it if you just grind a tree anyway, but it is understandable, you should at the very least wait for rank IV before you commit
with expert and maxed crew you already have 80% of the max, I don't think the remaining 20% is that significant