I was stood next to "warship" when he shot this video and am a regular working member of the BHG, D5600 has an extremely tired power unit, the bank to bank timing is miles out, and it's cold. All 12 cylinders are compressed from the start and they are all fueling with the fuel rack wide open under control of the engine governor (not human intervention).
Excellent video thanx for sharing, born in the mid 70's I was luck to bear witness to English Electric action, regulalry, and to witness one of these deisels come thundering, full hellfire, through your station for the first time in your life when you are very young you can not fail to be impressed, in awe (and somewhat intimidated.) This clip reminds me of that day, I will miss them when they are all finally taken from front line duty. Long live the british rail class diesels . . .
I LOVE English electrics - they are THE best Locos and I spent my entire youth Bashing them ALL. Many happy memories from this vid and the sounds. :-) Thanks for the upload. I 'classed' the 31s and the 50s back in 89!! Xx
The engine is designed to run in three modes: A-bank, B-Bank, and Full. The "Banks" are the left and right cylinder banks of the engine. Obviously, A-Bank, the one with the most white smoke, is having a hard time getting all of it's cylinders firing. a good way to resolve this in these old engines is to hook up extra power to those plugs, and manually pour fuel into the intake. However, the easiest way would be to just run the engine, as shown in the vid. The A cylinders will eventually fire up.
@gizmo98550 you are right. I did some research and one site tells me there are 3 methods of starting. Electric starter, as in a car, compressed air is pumped into the cylinders until it reaches enough speed to start ignition, or some older trains with dc generators, used the generator to turn the engine over, drawing from the battery, as you said. So, I was wrong - electric starters can be used, but i guess they hav to be made to suite the high compression
Excellent vid! Great work guys! Diesel engine are amazing. I love listening to one start in cold weather and blowing smoke (called Clag in the U.K. right?). Diesel in the morings the best smell!!
I went to see the class 50, lovely engine. Individual cylinders can have there fueling increased manually to check cylinders and can be decompressed evidently.
yes tpvalley, there is a hole cast in the cylinder head for de-compressing the cylinders. although this isn't used in this video. Each cylinder has it's own fuel pump which is fired from a cam on the camshaft. you can overfuel each individual cylinder to see if it is firing properly.
gardner engines smoke like this when cold too. my dad used to drive bristol RE's Aec 's Bristol MW's and leyland leopards. i love the sound of any EE engine, cold start or on full bore! I have seen a vid with a hymec cold starting and i know how smokey maybach engines are. long live british diesels
Old american diesels hauled longer trains but didn't have more power funnily enough! Take some switchers 1200hp and 120+ tons! I believe the heavy weight helped? The UK almost bought US locos in 1958 as they were tried and tested-reliable, but politics prevented this (we must buy british etc!!), so we had loads of unreliable failed designs. This loco was a successful one, after they fitted this this engine in place of Mirlees.
If we’d done some heavy maintenance or had water in the fuel( very common ) we’d have to warn the bridge about possible smoke or they’d panic. The really good one was when we had gas turbine problems with igniters or fuel and there would be sheets of flame out of the funnel
I wish u were reading this a while ago, we were trying to work out what the fitter was doing! I guessed what u said, but I saw first hand last weekend!
No, black smoke is overfueling, to much diesel and to litle air. White smoke is unburned diesel vapor, made by the compression heat in the cylinders, wich means that the diesel is not burned. Blue smoke is when the engine is burning oil. You can see at the end of the clip that one cylinder bank is smoking blue (not good)...
Listen everyone there is nothing wrong with this engine!!! it is a cold english electric engine they do this end of story!!! yes this one is tired which makes matters slightly worse, but not a great deal.
This engine is very worn, the folk involved r experts, the engine design pre-dates 1948, its called a English Electric SV or SVT, even when they were used by british rail they started badly when cold. I agree with u in that I woldn't want to live next door, Also there may be air in the fuel system as it has just been rebuilt.
I'm English, live in england, just know a bit of history. Better for pulling a heavy train will be worse for keeping time if the locos heavy, in the 1950s many designs failed- NBL class 21 22 41,43. and co-bo-class 28, etc.
EMD prime movers are still made in Illinois and the company is now owned by Greenbriar Equity Group LLC and Berkshire Partners LLC. Locomotives are built in Ontario. The original design for the EMD engine was from a Winton model (winton being a Cleveland based co) and the Winton 278 model was built as the GM-Cleveland 278. I worked on tugs with them. I am not ethnocentric but these are the facts. What a dumb thing to fight over.
@Jabirupilot1 u find seperate electric starters on alternator fitted locos. Ive never seen a loco with air start, plenty of trucks etc though using seperate air starter motors or ships using air as u described.
Yah know, people think this is a lot of pollution( it is) but locomotives are probably the most efficient way of transporting goods, BECAUSE they can tow the hell out of anything. So any one that thinks locomotives produce the most pollutants, that person Prius or volt most likely was on a locomotive.
Interesting video! Thank you for informing when the 1st cylinder began firing. At what point did the engine continue on its own without electric turnover? What was they technician doing? Wish you would explain details. Thank you. RWG Denver, Colorado USA
@scorps59 I'm not 100% sure, but I know they don't use normal starter motors. I think there is a motor-type thing which turns by compressed air (which is the hiss you can sometimes hear on these trains when they start). An electric starter may not be suitable for this type of engine because of its size and probably the large amount of compression. Some aircraft engines (radials) use compressed air to turn them over, by simply opening a tap to let the air through.
at 4.47 they were checking the horns. the high note needs lubricating. at 5.35 he's testing each cylinder. i'm not exactly sure how. at 6.58 he's testing the brake pressures i think. 7.52 is self explanatory.
They do. This engine took, what, several minutes to start? Steam engines took *hours* before they could even make steam. Of course once they were warmed up, they were still just as dirty. At least once this diesel is warmed up, it's much cleaner than coal is.
it depends on what you're burning in the fire box. Coal? Most defiantly more polluting. Natural gas, not so much. But with modern technology (at least when it comes to cars), the gasses coming out of the tail pipe, are actually LESS toxic than the air in some heavily polluted citys. Most of the reason why this is so smoky is because it's a cold day (diesels don't like cold starts), and the fact that it was just re-built, so there is probably some bugs still left in the system.
Theres a similar video with a class 20. When he checks each cylinder it speeds up like a dumper truck! so it must be a fueling thing. By the way the mirlees engines were replaced because they sufferred bed plate cracks, one was temporarily rated at 2000bhp! but others were 1250bhp and 1300 odd.
Its a V12 and has 12 cylinder heads. I think inlet and ex manifolds need to come off and cooling manifolds, bit of cowling, then open crank case doors, undo big end and lift out with piston, I think they have a lifting thread to fit a lifting eye in piston. only 10" bore so not that bad.
Totally dependable engines. For locomotives the engines r not set to get as much power as possible so the max rating can be used for hours on end, ie at 850rpm. The engines r used in ships etc aswell. Google "english electric" or 12svt. Oh and theyve been using similar engines for rail traction since 1947! when a 16svt had 1,600hp, this 12svt has 1,470hp if I recall correctly. I used to love hearing them throb into distance early morning.
indeed if i remember rightly jarvis went silent after they caused a major incident on the railways, but now they seem to be sprouting up where-ever track work is at
Replaced piston and rings. I think its mainly the fuel system priming, because they start beter than this normally. U know diesels; a bit of air in the lines can be a nightmare on some.
I knew somebody with a tug boat, 2-stroke diesel, doors into the air collecter/inlet port surround, a whole box of easy start would be used! 1 aerosol per cylinder! clang clang etc.
ya i know that u can "try" a light a pool of diesel on fire but it won't but the vapor will burn. that white smoke is just atomized/vaporized so it should light. vapor will burn
@Jabirupilot1 wow.. im not right very often.. but it wasnt said to shoot you down sir.. i didnt hear the normal wurr wurr wurr of a regular starter.. or air.. so i just made the assumption it was the generator being used to roll the engine over
In England, mainline locomotives are treated as if they were aircraft. If the locomotive does not pass the FTR exam 100 percent it is not allowed to run, period.
i knew it - i knew it - i was here at christmas and i told her i heard a deltic fire up this year - unfortunately i was having a pee at the time it passed in the toilet and got so excited i forgot what i was doing - thanks napier for a wet shoe
Your right 67genxer, they even used to leave them running overnight! bet it smelt marvalous, no fun if u happen to live over the road from a depot though.!!
If they just added a block/ water heater. Would make it live longer aswell as a lot of wear occurs when cold starting. I was almost ran over by one of these as a kid!
@@dutchdude1972 no not air the polarity to the main generator is reversed turning it into the world biggest starter motor. no danger of hurting that thing.
Its not revving flat out just a little revving. Bare in mind the oil is not multigrade, I think? so its thick when cold, the governor is engine oil pressure operated.
Woah..getting personal there.. I simply meant that many modern products are delivered by rail meaning that you, as a consumer, are a contributing factor here. In fact the computer you are on, debating with me, likely was delivered by rail at some point...At the very least a ship using similar, yet larger engines.
I was stood next to "warship" when he shot this video and am a regular working member of the BHG, D5600 has an extremely tired power unit, the bank to bank timing is miles out, and it's cold. All 12 cylinders are compressed from the start and they are all fueling with the fuel rack wide open under control of the engine governor (not human intervention).
Excellent video thanx for sharing, born in the mid 70's I was luck to bear witness to English Electric action, regulalry, and to witness one of these deisels come thundering, full hellfire, through your station for the first time in your life when you are very young you can not fail to be impressed, in awe (and somewhat intimidated.) This clip reminds me of that day, I will miss them when they are all finally taken from front line duty. Long live the british rail class diesels . . .
fantastic!!! brings back memories of crewe station when i was young thanks!!!!
Poetry in motion, true harmony, good stuff..
I LOVE English electrics - they are THE best Locos and I spent my entire youth Bashing them ALL. Many happy memories from this vid and the sounds. :-) Thanks for the upload. I 'classed' the 31s and the 50s back in 89!! Xx
loved the fiery belch at 03;15 !!
Loved the fireball at about 3:30. Darned engines can't live with 'em can't live without 'em.
Gotta love starting up an old cold diesel
The engine is designed to run in three modes: A-bank, B-Bank, and Full. The "Banks" are the left and right cylinder banks of the engine. Obviously, A-Bank, the one with the most white smoke, is having a hard time getting all of it's cylinders firing. a good way to resolve this in these old engines is to hook up extra power to those plugs, and manually pour fuel into the intake. However, the easiest way would be to just run the engine, as shown in the vid. The A cylinders will eventually fire up.
This is THE best railway clip on CZcams I have seen. Thank you for posting it. More please!
@gizmo98550 you are right. I did some research and one site tells me there are 3 methods of starting. Electric starter, as in a car, compressed air is pumped into the cylinders until it reaches enough speed to start ignition, or some older trains with dc generators, used the generator to turn the engine over, drawing from the battery, as you said. So, I was wrong - electric starters can be used, but i guess they hav to be made to suite the high compression
I must be mad but i just love heavy diesel engines. :D
This is by far one of the most wonderful videos on youtube. Man I am a weird girl lol...
Excellent vid! Great work guys! Diesel engine are amazing. I love listening to one start in cold weather and blowing smoke (called Clag in the U.K. right?).
Diesel in the morings the best smell!!
Hammerhartes Video ,Klasse mitschnitt.Warum kann man bei uns so etwas nicht miterleben.
TOP*****
I went to see the class 50, lovely engine.
Individual cylinders can have there fueling increased manually to check cylinders and can be decompressed evidently.
The engineers don't wave from the trains anymore, not like did back in 1954, I still get a tear in my eye when I hear an old train in the night.
yes tpvalley, there is a hole cast in the cylinder head for de-compressing the cylinders. although this isn't used in this video. Each cylinder has it's own fuel pump which is fired from a cam on the camshaft. you can overfuel each individual cylinder to see if it is firing properly.
gardner engines smoke like this when cold too. my dad used to drive bristol RE's Aec 's Bristol MW's and leyland leopards. i love the sound of any EE engine, cold start or on full bore!
I have seen a vid with a hymec cold starting and i know how smokey maybach engines are.
long live british diesels
I think I need a lie down after that, brilliant.
dont worry about green peace i worked on one of them boats when you start is even more smoke
maybe not like a train...or also the boat clagging a lot ? (sorry about my english)
Fred Dibnah was a steam engine man, but I'm sure the great man would have been fascinated by diesel and the mighty Deltic.
Bonjour, très belle vidéo, j’adore voir les gros diesel démarrer, les 50000 sont formidables, le V16 chante. Merci pour le partage.
Old american diesels hauled longer trains but didn't have more power funnily enough!
Take some switchers 1200hp and 120+ tons!
I believe the heavy weight helped?
The UK almost bought US locos in 1958 as they were tried and tested-reliable, but politics prevented this (we must buy british etc!!), so we had loads of unreliable failed designs. This loco was a successful one, after they fitted this this engine in place of Mirlees.
the white smoke is unburned diesel fuel vapor soo you should put a pilot lite or an open flame to it to "reduced emissions"
as a diesel fitter on br for a good few years hes testing each cylinder by overfuelling it on each fuel pump as each piston has its own pump
chris
clag is our birtish slang, for smoke from the exhast
I must come and see these machines for myself some day.
2 stroke diesels are great eh! :)
The triangular Deltic design is awesome, wish I had a small one in my car :)
This is a 4 stroke
lovely to see keep the old girls running lol
colin warn I agree it’s a shame non run on the mainline now
If we’d done some heavy maintenance or had water in the fuel( very common ) we’d have to warn the bridge about possible smoke or they’d panic. The really good one was when we had gas turbine problems with igniters or fuel and there would be sheets of flame out of the funnel
Cool saw that a few times as an apprentice 30 years ago in Victorian railways always a Cool sight !! And how they scream on the dyno!! Awsome
I wish u were reading this a while ago, we were trying to work out what the fitter was doing!
I guessed what u said, but I saw first hand last weekend!
Ole' girl seems to be running good after a good warm up. being that old .. =)
I just love the smoke!! I hope Al Gore sees this video! Go Brits go!!
Hello l like the class 31 priming pump at the start when you guys were getting the class 31 ready to startup
No, black smoke is overfueling, to much diesel and to litle air. White smoke is unburned diesel vapor, made by the compression heat in the cylinders, wich means that the diesel is not burned. Blue smoke is when the engine is burning oil. You can see at the end of the clip that one cylinder bank is smoking blue (not good)...
people cease to think that global warming is NOT caused by POLLUTION but by the planet warming up from the LAST ICE-AGE
Listen everyone there is nothing wrong with this engine!!! it is a cold english electric engine they do this end of story!!! yes this one is tired which makes matters slightly worse, but not a great deal.
This engine is very worn, the folk involved r experts, the engine design pre-dates 1948, its called a English Electric SV or SVT, even when they were used by british rail they started badly when cold.
I agree with u in that I woldn't want to live next door, Also there may be air in the fuel system as it has just been rebuilt.
Yes it is a diesel, made by English Electric.
I'm English, live in england, just know a bit of history.
Better for pulling a heavy train will be worse for keeping time if the locos heavy,
in the 1950s many designs failed- NBL class 21 22 41,43. and co-bo-class 28, etc.
Typical EE cold start - one cylinder at a time!!!
EMD prime movers are still made in Illinois and the company is now owned by Greenbriar Equity Group LLC and Berkshire Partners LLC. Locomotives are built in Ontario. The original design for the EMD engine was from a Winton model (winton being a Cleveland based co) and the Winton 278 model was built as the GM-Cleveland 278. I worked on tugs with them. I am not ethnocentric but these are the facts. What a dumb thing to fight over.
lol, The camera man in this has the patience of a saint recording that completely excessive long start up :P
I like how the smoke stack on this Train is spewing brown and white smoke it's pretty cool
@Jabirupilot1
u find seperate electric starters on alternator fitted locos.
Ive never seen a loco with air start, plenty of trucks etc though using seperate air starter motors or ships using air as u described.
Where I volunteered nobody ever went on shed etc without hi vis.
great video!
Yah know, people think this is a lot of pollution( it is) but locomotives are probably the most efficient way of transporting goods, BECAUSE they can tow the hell out of anything. So any one that thinks locomotives produce the most pollutants, that person Prius or volt most likely was on a locomotive.
12 cylinders,1470hp.
& if you want smoke,try a Deltic railtour,you'll get plenty behind one of them!!
Interesting video!
Thank you for informing when the 1st cylinder began firing.
At what point did the engine continue on its own without electric turnover?
What was they technician doing?
Wish you would explain details.
Thank you.
RWG Denver, Colorado USA
@scorps59 I'm not 100% sure, but I know they don't use normal starter motors. I think there is a motor-type thing which turns by compressed air (which is the hiss you can sometimes hear on these trains when they start). An electric starter may not be suitable for this type of engine because of its size and probably the large amount of compression. Some aircraft engines (radials) use compressed air to turn them over, by simply opening a tap to let the air through.
at 4.47 they were checking the horns. the high note needs lubricating.
at 5.35 he's testing each cylinder. i'm not exactly sure how.
at 6.58 he's testing the brake pressures i think.
7.52 is self explanatory.
I just love this video, cos it relly pisses off my Missus!!! I really love the sound of that diesel.
redmgbgt1 She sounds like a knob's worth
The engine is english electric, this replaced the origional mirlees jvstv12, with the mirlees it was a class 30, built by brush
It's ALIVE!!
The engine sound is great
They do. This engine took, what, several minutes to start?
Steam engines took *hours* before they could even make steam. Of course once they were warmed up, they were still just as dirty. At least once this diesel is warmed up, it's much cleaner than coal is.
it depends on what you're burning in the fire box. Coal? Most defiantly more polluting. Natural gas, not so much. But with modern technology (at least when it comes to cars), the gasses coming out of the tail pipe, are actually LESS toxic than the air in some heavily polluted citys. Most of the reason why this is so smoky is because it's a cold day (diesels don't like cold starts), and the fact that it was just re-built, so there is probably some bugs still left in the system.
7:01 A Fitness-to-Run exam is undertaken on the loco in general........taps dial with fingers........Yea that's a pass......
Theres a similar video with a class 20. When he checks each cylinder it speeds up like a dumper truck! so it must be a fueling thing. By the way the mirlees engines were replaced because they sufferred bed plate cracks, one was temporarily rated at 2000bhp! but others were 1250bhp and 1300 odd.
I take it nobody hangs their washing out in Bury on the weekends then?
Hellfire indeed!
Its a V12 and has 12 cylinder heads.
I think inlet and ex manifolds need to come off and cooling manifolds, bit of cowling, then open crank case doors, undo big end and lift out with piston, I think they have a lifting thread to fit a lifting eye in piston. only 10" bore so not that bad.
watcha wanna bet Al Gore shits has a hissy fit every time he watches this
I was expecting something exciting to happen like the new piston to break off and smash throught the engine casing.
yes the engine is really cold judjing by the smokes. And heating the water is the thing that in every country should be done (y)
I bet Mr Lee Kenny was deaf as a boot nail after doing that.
MORE LIKE THE SMOKE PARTY EXCELLENT!!!
CLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG
Totally dependable engines.
For locomotives the engines r not set to get as much power as possible so the max rating can be used for hours on end, ie at 850rpm.
The engines r used in ships etc aswell.
Google "english electric" or 12svt.
Oh and theyve been using similar engines for rail traction since 1947! when a 16svt had 1,600hp, this 12svt has 1,470hp if I recall correctly.
I used to love hearing them throb into distance early morning.
indeed if i remember rightly jarvis went silent after they caused a major incident on the railways, but now they seem to be sprouting up where-ever track work is at
I bet the neighbours love you
Clag is oil smoke When the cyl gets hot but not enough to burn Its like diesel steam or hot oil smoke
... and then somebody came running "Lee, Lee, stop the engine, there's still 3 pistons lying on the bench....."
Replaced piston and rings.
I think its mainly the fuel system priming, because they start beter than this normally.
U know diesels; a bit of air in the lines can be a nightmare on some.
Hmmm... that sounds so much like me first thing on a monday morning. Cold and reluctant to fire!
I knew somebody with a tug boat, 2-stroke diesel, doors into the air collecter/inlet port surround, a whole box of easy start would be used! 1 aerosol per cylinder! clang clang etc.
A new pope!!
ya i know that u can "try" a light a pool of diesel on fire but it won't but the vapor will burn. that white smoke is just atomized/vaporized so it should light. vapor will burn
This is not a Deltic. It is a Class 31, meaning English Electric 12SVT.
'People will think i'm burning tyres again' as a certain plastic alien once said
@Jabirupilot1 wow.. im not right very often.. but it wasnt said to shoot you down sir.. i didnt hear the normal wurr wurr wurr of a regular starter.. or air.. so i just made the assumption it was the generator being used to roll the engine over
That loco could transport over 600 people... far more efficient than any car or bus!
If thats a "Typical start", they SERIOUSLY need to take better care of their stuff
In England, mainline locomotives are treated as if they were aircraft. If the locomotive does not pass the FTR exam 100 percent it is not allowed to run, period.
Is this the 31 that used to be at the NRM in York?
at the beginning sounds like the engine of an old tractor with a cylinder
Little bit of hot air in a intake and diesel will start more smoothly with less smoke.
Brilliant film & all the better with knowledge like you two's (67g & tpv) to read.
Nice one!
Thank-you!
i knew it - i knew it - i was here at christmas and i told her i heard a deltic fire up this year - unfortunately i was having a pee at the time it passed in the toilet and got so excited i forgot what i was doing - thanks napier for a wet shoe
pvccat1
Your right 67genxer, they even used to leave them running overnight! bet it smelt marvalous, no fun if u happen to live over the road from a depot though.!!
If they just added a block/ water heater.
Would make it live longer aswell as a lot of wear occurs when cold starting.
I was almost ran over by one of these as a kid!
I feel bad for the starter motor... jesus...
It hasn't got one so don't feel bad.
@@dutchdude1972 no not air the polarity to the main generator is reversed turning it into the world biggest starter motor. no danger of hurting that thing.
english electric 12 SV
10" bore X 12" stroke.
1470hp at 850rpm I think.
These used to have Mirlees engines.
Its not revving flat out just a little revving.
Bare in mind the oil is not multigrade, I think? so its thick when cold, the governor is engine oil pressure operated.
Woah..getting personal there.. I simply meant that many modern products are delivered by rail meaning that you, as a consumer, are a contributing factor here. In fact the computer you are on, debating with me, likely was delivered by rail at some point...At the very least a ship using similar, yet larger engines.
Superb vid, some of the captions seem to have been cut short though.
The 67s were made in Spain IIRC.
Isn't that a great sound? remindes me at those lanz bulldogs