I personally think we shoul restore the trollybus to replace bus routes. A trolly bus is more environmentally friendly than even a hybrid or an electric bus, as batteries only return about 70% of the energy you put into them. That's a 30% loss of energy the trolly bus does not encounter, in addition to not needing to haul around a large and extremely heavy rare earth battery whose construction was both exceedingly expensive and which significantly poisoned the planet. By comparason, a trollybus needs no rare earth batteries, as it can make do with cheaper simpler batteries for it's short hop with long charge times.
You are absolutely right. As well as that, batteries decline over the years, so less and less of the electricity that is put in the battery is used to power the traction motors.
The efficiency of battery power exchange is a very relevant point. I've started to wonder if corded power tools might start to make a comeback for just that reason. Good point, thank you.
Lithium batteries have a charging/discharging efficiency of about 95%. The 70% figure you're quoting is more typical of lead-acid batteries. Trolleybus wiring runs at 750 volts, so there are some non-negligible power losses there, since each vehicle could draw in excess of 100 amps when accelerating from a standstill. You have a practical limit on wire thickness before weight and lack of flexibility becomes an issue. I'd have to dig up more details on wire cross-section, substation placement and number of vehicles on the network, but things aren't as clear cut in terms of efficiency as they seem. And then there's the cost of maintaining the electrical infrastructure, which isn't negligible.
They should never have been got rid of. More practical than trams (no rails needed), and environmentally greener than ordinary buses. Getting rid of trolleybuses in our cities was one of the biggest transport mistakes we made in the 20th century. Very insightful video Jago. 👏
Trams, at least in the 21st century, make much sense than trolley buses. They have much lower friction, fewer consumables (tires etc) and are generally much higher capacity with faster boarding due to multiple doors. This means they’re much cheaper to run than buses or trolley buses due to lower fuels costs and lower driver costs (per passenger). They’re also much easier to segregate from traffic thus easier to make more reliable. Given Britain’s cities are generally too small for subways, trams are definitely the most sensible option for the core of public transport going forward. As long as you’re happy to front the upfront costs (which are obviously much higher) they are generally profitable on a day to day basis. Which means if you’re a city trying to build a long term public transport network that isn’t so vulnerable to public cuts, trams are the way to go as you can’t cut money that’s already spent.
@@jamesmarsh6853 A very good comment. Couldn`t agree more. There are always goods and so so goods about any system. If a bit more effort was made to accommodate the tram systems - they would, as you have intimated, pay back dividends. Unfortunately, short term tinkering for profits so often seems the norm. That wot I fink, Guv!
@@jamesmarsh6853 Trams cost more than double the cost to build compared to trolley busses because of the cost of track in streets . Trolley busses can be made articulated, with lots of doors, just like modern trams and carry as many passengers. New designs can be self stearing.
@@terryflynn8830 So far I haven't seen any trolleybuses with low floors (on level with platforms) and that makes trams better for the elderly, people with prams and people with disabilities. Also a more comfortable ride. What matters is the population density to make the investment worthwhile, but I can't recall the commonly accepted numbers among professionals (which I'm not).
As a little kid, I remember the trams in Leicester. Mother did her best to avoid them as they were "too rough". In 1965 I went to Perth AU and they had a fantastic network of trolly busses. People including myself were upset at the loss of trolly buses being replaced by motorized buses. Melbourne never got rid of the trams and today the network is growing.
There are some nice driver's view rides of the Melbourne network on CZcams. I watch them all the time, there are a number of authors who have uploaded videos of that awesome network. I'm glad to hear that's growing.
Melbourne is the only Australian city that never had trolleybuses, I remember the Sydney trolleybuses in the ‘60s. They were single decker vehicles. Newcastle (NSW) has this clever idea of running battery/capacitor trams without an overhead wire, a pantograph pops up at each stop and charges the supercaps to give it power to go to the next stop. I do like the Chinese idea of a rubber tyred vehicle that looks like a tram but follows special marks on the road. So a tram without tracks. So not actually like a bus. It has a low profile like a tram. I haven’t heard much about them nowadays so I wonder if there was a show-stopper issue that made them not feasible.
@@darylcheshire1618 the problem with them is the damage to the roads. The axle weight is double the heaviest bus and when they trolley track along the same part of the road it very quickly develops gutters. So if you end up having to rebuild the road maybe you should have just built a tram line.
franc@@darylcheshire1618 A city in France had a system sort of like the Chinese one you mention. A single rail as a guide but it ran on rubber tyres with overhead wire. They eventually made it a conventional tram line as they found it really didn't work well. I can't recall the city, maybe Nantes?
@@lawrencelewis2592 That is interesting about the damage to the roads. In South Australia there is an o-bahn which uses concrete track in it’s own reservation. Ordinary buses are used with metal rims attached to the bus wheels, these rims run on the concrete track. When the bus leaves the concrete track, it just runs like an ordinary bus. It’s been a few years now, I’d like to know the pros and cons of this arrangement.
Glasgow's Trolleybuses gained the nickname "The Silent Death" thanks to their quiet motors and pneumatic tyres...there was a few accidents occurring over the years! They lasted here til 1967, 5 years after the last trams ran, and they didn't receive anywhere near the fanfare the last procession did for the tramcar. An unsung workhorse you could call them.
The Belgian Coast tramline (about 60 km long) had a similar problem. Before the 1980s the trams were so noisy you could hear them from miles away, warning people for the oncoming vehicle. The new 1980s trams however were so silent they had to be equipped with a claxon with foghorn ambition. This claxon can also be heard miles away. Problem solved.
There's a story, which I think is true, that the American singer Dionne Warwick did a concert in Glasgow in the early 60s. On her way to (or from?) the theatre she stepped into the road and was promptly run over by a trolleybus which she hadn't heard coming. Fortunate to get away with cuts and bruises. Silent death indeed
When I visited Seattle a decade ago I was pleasantly surprised to find their diesel buses switched to overhead power in the downtown area. To the people who might say power stations still burn fuel I say "yes but not in the street, you choose the location of a power station".
Also, the grid is agnostic. Wires don't know what fuel was burned (or sunshine collected, or wind harnessed) to make the electricity. In most places electricity has gotten cleaner at a rate that is faster than internal combustion engines.
@@HarryLovesRuth The other bonus of central power electricity generation is that it is far easier to clean the emissions of a power station than to clean the emissions of millions of individual combustion engines. Some of the captured emissions of a power station even have value and use when captured in sufficient quantities rather than just being belched out into the atmosphere. There are downsides to such capturing of emissions of course, but there are downsides to everything but the relative downsides compared to the opportunities are rather high. Even the move from 90% to 99% capture is relatively low cost particularly compared to the benefits; it cuts into profits a little of course and that's often where the arguments against it start to come from.
The power grid in Seattle has a large amount of hydro electric in it. (They do still burn a surprisingly large amount of coal or gas in the area given the plentiful hydro power, but it's not the worst part of the US in that regard).
Here in Latvia the only fossil fuel we burn for electricity is natural gas and that's more in winter when we need heating, in summer the grid is mostly hydro, solar, wind and nuclear via cable from Sweden, grids are getting cleaner all the time in EU
The Dutch city of Arnhem has been operating a trollybus network singe 1949. Currently there are 6 lines, in and around Arnhem, next to 6 more ordinary bus lines. In this age of electrically powered vehicles being all the rage the trolleybuses are considered quite modern. 😄
I had a memorable day in Arnhem riding the trolleybuses in the 90s. Some of them were then a bit elderly and rattly to be honest, but they still shot away from the stops! I guess it must be the nearest place to the UK where they still run trolleybus services.
They are even starting on "Trolley 2.0": Battery electric buses that run as normal trolley buses on the central core of the network and then wireless on the outer reaches. The reason Arnhem started with trolleybuses is the city is quite hilly and diesel and petrol buses of the period were not powerful enough.
@@IIVQ The combination of wires for the busy central core and battery for the outer suburban extensions (with recharge points at termini) seems a neat idea. As long as trolley poles can be raised and lowered simply - not the case in London and other contemporary networks. Battery might also help trolleybuses to leave the wires and navigate round obstructions.
@@iankemp1131 It works well. I have been drive about 10km without trolley wire, we had coffee at a coworkers house. In Arnhem they have a system to automatically raise the trolley poles to the wires (at select locations), driver doesn't need to leave his vehicle. Later this year the revenue service to Wageningen should start. And trolleybuses could always move around obstacles as they have a small combustion engine onboard.
I used a trolleybus from Surbiton to Kingston every day at the start of my time at Grammar School. Poor maintenance was probably the cause of the frequent loss of connection at the 'points' in the power wires at a junction in the heart of Kingston, and the resulting, frequent, rush hour chaos. And then there was the problem of the 1938 batteries which were supposed to power the trolleybuses far enough to get them out the way when they broke down. Suffice it to say that a team of 11 and 12 year old schoolboys, myself included, have never forgotten what pushing a N°602 feels like. The battery problem would be much less of a problem today, better maintenance and improved detailing of the 'points' would be less of a problem today and the fast acceleration of the gear-free trolleybuses might speed daily commutes. All that said, however, the inflexibility of any system dependent on a physical electrical connection remains. In the case of the Croydon trams, much of their routes was formed from pre-existing railway routes and was thus already separated from other traffic and also thus they've worked very well. The DLR had the same advantages. Elsewhere in London, no obvious further easy gains for trams or trolleybuses present themselves but maybe, just maybe, both may have a future in other UK conurbations where existing provisions have been allowed to decay. Edinburgh comes to mind, maybe with the never-to-be-completed Edinburgh tramways to be, at least in part, completed with trolleybuses. Now, there's a thought.
Very interesting. Were you at KGS or (like me) Tiffins? We lived at Winters Bridge, across the road from the 282 trolleybus terminus. There's a photo somewhere of an 11-year-old me standing in front of the last ever service, on 30 Dec 1966.
The "Oxford Street Plan" could have been implemented a lot easier than critics made out. Natural turning circles at Marble Arch and Holborn would have worked a treat and motor buses could have been taken off the road between the Tottenham Court Road end and the west end of Oxford Street. All sorts of excuses were put forward by the detractors as to why Trolleybuses should not be reintroduced, one of which even complained about Lots Road Power Station! Bring the wires back I say!
But why do it with wires? Nowadays battery or hybrid vehicles with a recharge point at each end would seem more flexible. I guess wires make more sense for a short self-contained route that won't be extended, but how useful is that?
@@iankemp1131 Turnaround times are often only 5 - 10 minutes when running to time zero when late barely time to have a cuppa let alone any charge to a battery. When many buses are running late due to peak hour traffic they are often turned short of destination to plug the gaps in the opposite direction.
@@iankemp1131 Batteries have a lot of safety (less than perfect battery design, or significant damage, results in the whole thing going up in flames in seconds, and the fire can't actually be put OUT short of burrying the thing in several times its weight in sand. Consequently firefighters response is to corden it off and let it burn itself out.), numerous environmental and ethical issues with acquring the materials for making the battery (generally considered better than continuing to use fossel fuels, but still bad and to be minimised), power to weight ratio issues (modern batteries have very high energy density. It's still not better than petrol (though that's made up by the entire battery + motor arangement weighing less than the entire fuel tank, engine, and drive train of an ICE vehicle in cars), and the larger the vehicle, the bigger the impact that has. There are other issues as well. Most or all of which can be solved or reduced by way of using overhead wires instead. (though, of course, the flexability issue still applies. Modern capacitors are pretty good though, so short of having to substantially change the entire route, they can usually do well enough for the situations where the trolley bus needs to disconnect. Which also lets you have No wires rather than a horrible, complicated snarl, at complicated intersections (such as depots or major hubs).)
The bureaucrats in The City would scream blue murder over putting up overhead wires; they used this excuse to stop London's first trams from entering inner CBD. When the conduit system was proposed (and introduced in the inner suburbs) they came up with more excuses. I think the real reason was to keep the hoi polloi out of the fashionable shopping streets. Today's version of the conduit system is far more reliable and safe; no excuses this time.
I loved living along a trolley bus route in San Francisco, which still has dozens of trolley bus routes. The ghostly 'tish' sound along the wires, when the bus was a few blocks away, meant it was time to get my arse outside and towards the stop on the corner (14th & Castro, for the 24, in case you're wondering), and the same sound was soothing to fall asleep to. I'd say this is one of your most comprehensive videos. I loved it.
Ha! I know that area (not incredibly well, but still!). Went to SF on several occasions for conferences. I usually stayed in the marina district (so I could take the cable car every morning), but had colleagues staying in all sorts of places. Used to go for dinner all over the city, usually somebody had an idea. Need to go to San Francisco (with flowers in my - now grey - hair).
One reason for them in San Francisco is probably the hills. Castro/Divisadero Street (24 route) has some pretty steep ones. The electric buses can climb them and there's no diesel engine roaring. Unlike tracked trolleys the buses do need two wires.
Do NOT under any circumstances refer to it as "San Fran". Or Frisco for that matter. The locals hate it. Always refer to it as San Francisco.@@tomgirldouble3249
Thanks as ever Jago! I grew up in Brentford and used to go to school on the 657 trolleybus, so imagine my pleasure in seeing your pictures of a trolleybus from my youth! I have fond memories of the trolleybuses in West London. They had many advantages, their only serious disadvantage being that they couldn't pass each other without lowering their collector arms. Many will remember having waited for an overdue trolleybus only to find three or even more turn up together because of some traffic hold up. The first one would be packed, and the others would be nearly empty. Having said that though, they could seat more passengers than the diesel buses and were considerably quieter. We need them today, as you suggest. They were well before their time in terms of their low pollution and noise levels. Whilst the British may not be thinking of bringing them back, our colleagues on the Continent simply don't have the same mindset. Alongside the vast number of modern tram networks, many cities have modern trolleybuses - look no further than Riga, Bern, Luzern, Salzburg, etc. etc. Even San Francisco has trolleybuses. By comparison, we do tend to be blinkered when it comes to public mass transport don't we?
It's one of the slightly geeky things that I enjoy when going around a European city - going on the trams or trolleybuses. There's no fear of them because for many purposes they are easy to conceptualise as above ground and shorter underground trains. Just much easier and cheaper to deploy and extend.
Another comment mentioned that Arnhem is considering trolleybuses with a battery for outer suburbs, That would also allow them to deviate round obstructions or other buses. The big question to me would be whether the trolley poles could be raised and lowered regularly with 100% reliability.
I remember the trolleybuses in Bournemouth, and in particular the final runs in 1969. The need for a turning circle was eased at the Christchurch end of the line by the use of a turntable - one of only five in the world, according to Wikipedia. There are even some photos online showing it in use by buses in 'Bournemouth Corporation' livery - yellow with two maroon (?) bands. My mother, and various other members of my family, worked on the buses and trolley-buses, including the open-top trolleybuses (which I recall riding). I recall her telling me the story of her first day as a 'clippy' (as female conductors were known) on the trolleybuses. At the end of the line (presumably at the turntable) is was necessary to move the 'arms' from one overhead cable to another, and to do this the long pole with a hook was used (this was also needed if the arms came off the cable). The pole cane be seen in the video at 7:52 onwards. What they didn't tell her (and I suspect they did this to all newbies), was that there is a powerful spring pushing the arm up onto the cable. So once you have pulled down on the arm and moved it to one side, it is necessary to keep a firm hold of the pole to avoid the spring pulling it out of your hands and flinging it through the air like a javelin - inevitable the first time someone tries it, I suspect.
I remember the buses smelt like BO, old farts and tobacco - exactly the same as old telephone boxes which my Brother and I would regularly frequent hoping somebody had forgotten to press button 'B' - only once where we rewarded with 4d but we kept trying.
@@David-ci1vn I wasn't allowed to join the cubs or scouts because my Mother had a deep seated suspicion about Scout Leaders, she thought there was something very strange about grown men who wear shorts, I believe history has proved her right on more than one occasion.
Toronto used to have a few trolley bus routes, but these disappeared in the 1970s. The trams nearly disappeared at that time as well, until a massive public demonstration ensured that they remained. Vancouver still has trolley buses.
I started secondary school in September 1960, and distinctly recall travelling on trolleybuses (routes 653 and 627) from Finsbury Park to Camden Town each day before they were replaced by routemasters around 1961/2 and were renumbered 253 and 127.
You’re right, the earliest trolleys were known by their drivers as “diddlers” because, unlike the earlier trams, they could diddle about in the traffic. I used to live in Goodmayes, quite close to Fulwell Cross (not Fulwell), the end of Route 691. Our local trolleybus service, the 663, ran East along the A118, (Goodmayes) High Road, to Chadwell Heath, where it turned off right, round a one-way road triangle via Station Road and Wangey Road, where it terminated near the Gaumont Cinema before heading back along the High Road towards Aldgate, London. I remember my Mum taking me one day to wave goodbye to our last trolleybus, which I guess was about 1960. After that, we were served by the No. 86 bus, a Routemaster, which went all the way to Romford. I think there was also a Service 193, usually with RT traction. Thanks for a very interesting overview of the “Trolleys”.
The 663 originally ran from Aldgate to Ilford and there was a 695 which ran from Bow to Chadwell Heath. I lived in Victoria Road, Barking and the 691 and 693 trolleybuses ran at the end of the road. These were operated by the SA class of trolleybus which were intended to run in South Africa, in Johannesburg and Durban, but , because of World War 2 were diverted to London instead. They were the first 8 feet wide vehicles to run. The normal legal limit was 7 feet 6 inches wide in those days.
@@RonFer1945 Good to hear from an expert! That would be Ilford Lane. If you'd then gone up Longbridge Rd, Goodmayes Lane and Barley Lane, which used to carry the 238 bus, you'd have passed near my old family home. Cheers!
That's another explanation for the early London trolleybuses being called 'diddlers'. It's often credited to the sound of the Westinghouse brake pump; a familiar sound on the Underground, but quite startling on a road vehicle.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Thanks, I love that sound, especially the way it dropped in pitch as the compressor slowed due to the traction motors drawing power to accelerate the train. Very evocative of the '60s to me.
My grandfather used to work as an engineer out of the old Plumstead Garage during the days of the trolley bus and then RMs. The route 696 used to go from Woolwich to Dartford and near the top of our road was a tight bend after a straight run. If the buses had not slowed down for the bend they would unhook from the lines. This happened so much they stored a pole at the shop next to the bend (yes there was storage on the vehicles for a pole but they were usually missing). My grandfather also stole a pole with hook to keep the guttering on our house clear. Wickham hill on that route is fairly steep and the trolley buses used to take it in their stride, but the RMs used to struggle going up hill. I remember being a child and watching some one walk up the hill quicker than the RM I was on.
Yes - ex LT conductor here, Mortlake Garage - the RM was a superb vehicle, but give it a steep hill and it struggled like it was towing an earth mover. The older drivers, while generally loving the RM, lamented only that one flaw when compared to the RT which had a petrol engine and took hills like a climber. Guess it's true: diesels don't like hills.
I too remember the old Plumstead and Abbey Wood garages. Wasn't old enough to see trolleybuses but do remember route 171a, Sunday only Abbey Wood to Tottenham replaced by 180a in '72.
Thanks for postingTrolley buses have been running for 74 years in Vancouver. In North Toronto there was the Nortown route which was active until 20 years ago.
My father was a trolley bus driver in Newcastle upon Tyne. I remember them with great affection. In terms of making a comeback, especially on the streets of London, I fear their time has passed. The arrival of the completely electric (battery powered) bus means we now have the best of both worlds. A "clean" power source and the ability to divert around obstacles and incidents at will. In many respects the experience of riding an electric bus is not dissimilar to riding a trolley bus.
Completely electric buses will be very expensive, due to the need for a magnum capacity battery. Trolley buses would be cheaper to build, including the infrastructure.
Battery buses are heavier (big batteries), more expensive (big batteries), need to charge (big batteries), and have a nasty habit of burning down the bus depot (you guessed it, big batteries). If only there were a technology that removed the need for these batteries, but kept the advantages of electric public transport... I'm in favour of trackless trollies that can automatically couple to the wires while moving - if you have this system, you can get rid of complicated wire crossings/points at junctions.
trolly buses have lower overall cost compared to bat buses. trolly buses use less power for the same route, (much better regen efficiency, plus lower maitance cost. plus less power used per acceleration. this is even more useful on routes with long hills sense the down grade buses can send the majority of the power to the uphill buses
@@C.I... Electric buses are very heavy too, they will destroy any surface they are driven on- driving up the cost of road repairs and the delays caused in the process.
There is a section of trunk road in Germany that has wires overhead to allow charging of electric lorries en route. This allows much smaller batteries to be fitted with improvements in payload and economics. Perhaps the same could be applied in cities to electric busses, sections of the route being electrified and the busses carrying enough battery capacity to drive between them. My parents lived in Croydon during the trolleybus era and thought they were terrific.
Unless battery technology improves, the future could be induction charging from plates under the roads or under bus stops to charge batteries. Magnetic induction technology has advanced significantly in recent years, both in efficiency and the distances between the induction plates. In Gumi, South Korea they have been experimenting with an 8 mile route for OLEV (Online Electric) buses.
It's called opportunity charging and it's being introduced across Europe for bus operations, including in the UK. Problem is that the initial infrastructure cost is horrendous and (as ever) UK government likes shouting about how much they're doing but not actually coming up with the cash to do it. :(
@@frglee even with improvements, I have a hard time imagining induction (~50%, but let’s say they bring it even as far as 75%) could compare to a battery (95%).
We have waited over 40 years for trolleybuses to return to West Yorkshire but, despite several plans nothing has happened. This is mostly because Westminster has no interest in spending on public transport in cities outside London. Bradford's trolleybuses were quick, quiet and very popular. The politicians got rid of them, not the ordinary people! One route near my home used to run every 10 minutes until 11.30 as a trolleybus service. Nowadays its diesel bus replacement runs every 60 minutes in the evening until 10.00!
South Yorkshire PTE had a trolly bus built in 1985 which was tested on its own track and deemed successful, however I believe deregulation of the bus services put pay to plans to reintroduce them. It now resides at the Trolly Bus museum at Sandtoft, Lincolnshire which is well worth a visit.
@@sterlinghartley2165 Yes, it's on an old airfield. Worth a visit. I think they occasionally run connecting vintage buses from Doncaster station? Similar problem to Crich Tramway Museum (or Beamish) though the former can be walked from Whatstandwell if you're fit!
@@iankemp1131 Critch is fairly near 2 station and has a bus you can catch to be closer (I've looked into going, just need to save up and get the time of work). Can't speak for Beamish tho I'd love to go. The vintage bus thing would be nice if there was a schedule or something, I haven't found one tho.
These should come back. A modern trolleybus could have enough battery power on board to reroute around disruptions and the ability to reconnect to the wires automatically without stopping, but wouldn't have to have the massive battery packs required to run entirely without wires. The wires could also be used for other municipal vehicles like garbage trucks and snow plows, maybe even delivery trucks.
@@francisboyle1739 The issue here is that with higher battery capacity comes higher weight and thus higher road surface wear. One of the advantages of trolleybuses is that they're actually lighter than even the diesel buses, which allows them, among other things, to perform better in hilly terrain and to be less harmful to roads.
I don't remember trolleybuses in London, but I do remember them in Reading. They had the advantage of being quieter and not putting out fumes, but they did seem a bit quaint even to a child, as I was then.
I can remember as a child in West Belfast, the Trolley Bus's at the top of our street. When the boom fell of the over head power cable ,the conductor had to get a pole out and hoist it back up. Something dangerous as they often got shocked! From memory it was a bamboo pole.This was in the mid sixties.
I used to go to cubs on the trolley bus. Better than trams as no rails needed, just overhead supply. Clean, environmentally. It was 2d to go to cubs and 3d to go to town, ( this was obviously pre-decimalisation)Then all the electrical buses disappeared, until now when suddenly its highly desirable for everything to go electric. We also had battery powered milk floats. They still run trolley buses at the Black Country Living Museum in Dudley.
In the 1950/60s I lived in Tolworth - opposite the terminus of route 601 (Tolworth - Twickenham via Surbiton, Kingston, Teddington and Fulwell) and often travelled this route as my mother had a friend who lived near Kneller Hall (Whiton). I loved the fierce (but smooth) acceleration of the trollybus. In the 1970s and 80s (having spent ten years in banking) I decided on a change of career and I learnt to drive buses (RTs, RMs, RFs, Metros and others) first out of Kingston, then Norbiton, then Fulwell garages. In the 1990s, after a break of six years from public transport, in 1999 I joined Tram Operations (a year before the system opened to the public) and became one of the first dozen drivers on that system. later assisting in the training of new drivers. So this video holds many memories for me as I have connections with much of it.
The trolley bus was a great excuse for the reason for being late to school (Perth, Western Australia) when the pole fell from the lines and the conductor had to get off the bus, get his big pole to get all back in order. Sadly, when I used the excuse it was never accepted. So many good memories…
Leeds City Transport ran a fine fleet of trams. Mum and I used to catch one at Compton road/Harehills lane for trips into Leeds and a little train spotting at Central station. Moving to huddersfield in 1962, I enjoyed 1d rides on their fine 6 wheeler trolleys to school and back, taking great enjoyment and entertainment watching a hapless connie trying to capture the tentacles with a very large bamboo pole. I was sad to see them go in 1968 along with my beloved steam trains. Emigrating to Australia I and friends acquired an AEC regent III from Chullora bus depot and spent six years living in it and touring Australia. This led to lifetime employment as a bus driver in Yorkshire, Queensland and Western Australia before starting my own bus charter business running ex wa govt. Mercedes’ and Leyland panther buses. This video pleased me immensely and I only wish I had not filmed more for myself. Thank you
Great, a video on trolley busses 🙂 I happen to live in a city where they still run! Here they were actually introduced after WWII to replace the heavily damaged tram network whilst retaining the electrical infrastructure. One of the other draws over diesel busses at that time was probably that the city, Arnhem, is one of the few places in the Netherlands where we happen to have some hills and electric vehicles offered an advantage in terms of acceleration. Over the years off-course many plans came and went to abolish them, only recently for busses running on bio-gas (ugh...), due to higher operating cost. But their distinctively light blue livery and uniqueness in this part of Europe has made them a bit of a local pride. More recently new trolley busses have been ordered with larger electric batteries on board have that can significantly the routes, so I think the future may look bright here for the trolley bus 😀
@@F1ghteR41 Buses running on diesel can also catch fire, as the Maltese will happily tell you while ranting about how useless their ex-London bendibuses were! Stagecoach East Midlands also had a spate of buses burning out a few years ago.
@@atraindriver the Maltese used to have some belting old buses running out of Valletta. The type I used used to see on old movies when I was a kid. Some had to be bump started down the ramp from the bus turn in Valletta to get them going, and god forbid they stall out in the wilds because the electric starters weren't up to getting them going again. Along with all the old cars of my teen hood like anglias and sunbeams and sprites, it was magnificent!
A trolley battery hybrid is very practical idea. In the city center the overhead wires power the bus as well as recharging the batteries plus at the terminus a recharge station could be available . It's the recharge time of the batteries that is normally an issue but if all they have to do get to/from the city centre before being recharged as they go through the center (where most time is taken) then they become more feasible. A diversion where a major city centre route is involved is such a major upheaval temporary overhead power could be rigged?
I do indeed remember trolleybuses with fondness. It was always a treat to watch the conductor replace a dislodged pantograph using a really long pole kept on board for the purpose.
I travelled on the last 630 from West Croydon to Mitcham. We were closely followed by another trolleybus showing 'Private'. Next day the 630 route was replaced by the 220 and 64 using the then new Routemasters. The northbound 630 was noted for its oddly imprecise destination: 'Near Willesden Junction'. I believe the term 'trolleybus' derived from the early power pickup being a four-wheeled trolley running along the top of the wires with a cable hanging down between them pulling the trolley along, rather than sprung poles with wheels running below as universally adopted. The trolleybuses running from Bournemouth to Christchurch in Dorset had a turntable for reversing at the end of the route: the conductor would pull down and hook the poles, then he and the driver would push the whole lot round to face the other way, before re-wiring the poles and setting off back to Bournemouth. Where a route diverged, the overhead wires had their own 'points' which were switched if necessary by the driver applying power at a certain distance from the junction; in heavy traffic the unavoidable stopping and starting could lead to incorrect switching and de-wiring, so some busy junctions had the overhead points some distance from the change of route, allowing the driver to trigger the route change in advance and run on a parallel pair of wires to the junction.
I remember the trolleys on the Crystal Palace to Croydon route. At the palace there was a roundabout so a trolley buscoming up Anerly Hill could reverse ready to go back down. I never saw it myself but dewiring going round the roundabout wass not unknown. The was a bamboo pole kept on the roundabout for the purpose. Now the trolley busses did carry a pole slung underneath the chassis but to get it out required all the trafffic behind to be moved back 12 to 13ft to slide it out. Another interesting point is that Anerly hill is steep and the trolleybusses laid over facing down the hill. The handbrake was not relied upon and a concrete scotch was deployed
I was born at Wheathill flats in Anerly, lived there until 1956 and occasionally rode on the trolley buses to Penge where I went to school in St Johns Road. We would sometimes walk to school taking short cuts through the bomb sites.
Interesting point about roundabouts. They are so much more widespread nowadays that it might prove a problem for trolleybuses, though hopefully better methods have been found for stopping the pole dewiring.
@@ACELog A scotch or chock is a lump of material, usually wood, sometimes metal triangular in shape. A scotch or chock is placed in front of a wheel to stop a vehicle from moving. Railway men refer to them as scotches (I am a volunteer railway man) and road users as chocks
I lived in Carshalton in the 1950s and I remember the trolley busses coming along our road. I can still picture the sparks that used to come off the pickups.
I used to go shopping with my parents in the early 1950's and take the trolley bus from Friern Barnet to Wood Green.They were very quiet,and as a 5 year old I looked forward to this ride. I seem to recall one problem they had was that the poles connected to the overhead cables could come away and then had to be reconnected by the bus conductor and driver. This was often a struggle particularly in a strong wind.and passengers were not impressed when it happened several times on a short journey.
I was born in 1955, but can clearly remember travelling regularly on the 630 Trolleybus with my mum from West Croydon to Earlsfield to visit an aunt. I must have only been about 5 or 6 years old. If memory serves me correctly that Trolleybus route was replaced by the 220 route using brand new Routemaster buses which replicated the 630 route, which was from West Croydon to Harlesdon. Years later in the late 1980's I worked with an older man who used to drive Trolleybuses for London Transport in his younger days.
Thank you for giving the trolley bus a quick step into the limelight. As I understand it my home town Belfast had the second biggest trolley bus network in the UK and I remember using them during my childhood. As you said, they never seemed to gather the affection or following of lots of other mass transport types but I always think of them fondly. The driver using the gigantic bamboo to replace the pantograph if it slipped off the wire was quite the spectacle for a wide eyed child of the time. Thanks again, I really enjoyed that.
I grew up in West London in the 50s and 60s and fondly remember the trolley busses that served London north of the river, ( I grew up in Richmond. As a child I used to think that the trolley buses were the new futuristic transport. They had more room, didn’t smell and accelerated more quickly. I wish we had them in Richmond and Sheen. North of the river my parents and I would use trolley buses in preference to the diesel buses, even when we had to wait longer. How I miss them!
Great video 👍🙂 Being a born and bred Jo'burg boy, I can remember the extensive trolley bus network, from the Jo'burg CBD to outlying leafy suburbs. Occasionally the pickup poles would jump the wire or gap, necessitating the grumpy conductor, getting out the long pole, stored underneath the bus, and using a combination of dexterity and fishing skills, reattach the offending pole, so that my journey to school or wherever could continue. Trolley busses were operated by the municipality and disappeared from the roads in the early 80's as more efficient diesel busses took over. You never forget that metallic hum & swish of the next trolley bus heading your way. Living in Edinburgh for quite some time, I've watched our 'tram' saga roll out, which has been a comedy of errors, second to none and will take many decades of paying them off.
Due to the torque characteristics of electric traction motors, these are highly suitable in hilly terrains such as Nottingham or Sheffield. Maximum torque at zero rpm and no vast local fumes that a fully loaded internal combustion engine creates in the same situation. PS: I rode on the last LT trolley bus for 20m as it pulled away from Wimbledon Town Hall; a policeman was just in front of me on the boarding platform - I had no choice other than get off - he was bigger than me !!
The last UK trolleybus system to close was in the very hilly town of Bradford where they were ideal. it closed on 26th March 1972. Just over a year later in October 1973 began the first oil crisis when crude oil shot up from $3 to $12 per barrel which obviously made diesel buses a lot dearer to operate. There was a second oil crisis in 1979 (oil rose from an average $18.85 to $39.50 per barrel). If the oil price had shot up say 10 years earlier perhaps some trolleybus systems might have survived as they ran on electricity produced from UK mined coal.
In Bolton in the North West we used to have a large tram network that had no maintenance during world war II for obvious reasons, however this meant afterward half the line was unusable so they went to trolleybuses, then to normal buses. Therefore we have no trams and everyone hates the public transport we have now. Yet if you go to the next town over that is part of the Manchester metrolink tram service, public transport is well liked there.
@@thomasburke2683 they wants trams it would just cost hundreds of millions to reinstate them. Not sure a steam train is exactly the kind of everyday cheap public transport people are looking for to be honest.
Thats why the hotel past Waters Meeting Road is called the Tramway Hotel! And also why that road is so wide...We really need the Metrolink here in bolton it would help so much for transport connections and footfall to a place in steep decline...
I'm not sure that extending Metrolink to Bolton would change local attitudes towards public transport; people might like the trams but they'd still moan like heck about the buses, which would remain the primary public transport for Bolton district just as they are for Bury district. Mind you, you have the delights of Diamond Buses there at the moment, who I believe are currently managing to make First look good, but I'm not sure that the upcoming change to TfGM franchise buses operated by GoAhead (Go North West) will make much difference as the major problem is a sheer lack of bus drivers. If bus drivers were paid a decent salary and not treated like scum by their employers (and, unfortunately, by a lot of their customers) then maybe more people would be willing to do the job.
@@atraindriver trams will relieve some pressure on the buses making them better along with the fact that trams will be well liked. Also if the network was as extensive as it used to be would make a bus a bit redundant.
Current Trolleybuses can travel tens of miles off of wire and recharge the batteries while moving meaning that a transport service doesn't have to electrify the entire line to provide service without local fumes. My hometown still has the long-running network and bought the new buses in the last decade. They've got distinct advantages over battery-electric buses in range, at the cost of maintaining the wires.
Doncaster trolleybuses ceased in 1963, when I was still a lad living in Sheffield. When I came here in 1975 though, some Daimler CVG6s and Leyland Titan PD2s with Roe trolley bus bodies were still around. I also remember a few trolley bus journeys in Rotherham, the last one being a couple of weeks before abandonment in 1965. Going on holiday to Bournemouth in the mid 1960s gave an opportunity to ride on their system, (I liked the turntable at Christchurch), but I was more interested in the Hants & Dorset Lodekkas there. The trolleybus system in Wellington (NZ) operated until just a few years ago.
I live near San Francisco, who never got rid of most of their trolleybus routes. In fact the only thing that has changed since I was a kid is most of the busses now have "clean air vehicle" stickers on them!
I just about remember travelling on a trolly in 1962 when I was five and we lived in Woodgreen in N. London. Very comfortable and smooth with a powerfull hum from the motor as the vehicle accelerated. Buses tended to be noisy and a bit rough.
Travelling round eastern Europe I was impressed by this relatively simple and potentially green technology. A massive improvement to some streets in London that smell of bus diesel. As a life long Doctor Who fan my highlight was of course the TARDIS at 0:38 😯
On the last day of London trolleybus operation the Diddler (No 1 though there was some doubt as to whether it really was No 1) was brought out of retirement at the Clapham Museum as Jago suggests. Local notables were conveyed from Fulwell to Kingston in the middle of the afternoon. Sadly I was in school nearby that day so I missed it. On arrival at Kingston it was towed back to Clapham. czcams.com/video/0-9IjiEvxmA/video.html is a record of the event. The actual last trolleybus was on the 604 route from Wimbledon to Hampton Court and thence to Fulwell. Scheduled to arrive at around midnight it was over an hour late as the streets were blocked by well over 1000 people who had come to witness the event. The last bus was packed (I'm guessing that, theoretically it was supposed to have been empty) and, as it finally drew into the forecourt of the depot, every lightbulb was stolen - perhaps a few are still on somebody's mantlepiece. Of course since it all happened in the early hours of the next morning, this time I wasn't in school.
I share your happy Fulwell memories! Jago implies that the Diddler accompanied the last trolleybus; not so, it was only run in the afternoon, as you say. I lived very close to Fulwell Depot and stayed up late to witness the last trolleybus on its approach to the Depot. The bus was indeed packed but I managed a short ride (hanging on the outside!), although I didn't get any bulb or other souvenir, alas. There were various ways that certain local boys could have fun by encouraging the trolley to de-wire - particularly at the road junction before the 'Nelson' pub where the 601 and 667 routes separated. The conductor had to change the spring-loaded points located at the previous stop for a 601 - so if someone else had changed them unobserved when a 667 was running, it would carry straight on while the trolley poles tried to go left - and out would come the long bamboo pole.
One of the things my mum would reminisce about most growing up in Barnet was riding trolleybuses, they used to stop outside the shop she lived above opposite the tube station. Mum would regularly help Maisie the clippie weed out all the people trying to avoid paying their fares she knew by the discarded tickets they attempted to use that they were for journeys longer than they were taking. On Fridays she'd go to the Finchley depot, as a reward the drivers would give her mint humbugs or a squashed fly biscuit for helping. As very an occasional treat Maisie the clippie would take her to the Aldenham works where they serviced buses and trolleys
Nottingham City Transport used trolleybuses well into the 60s. I was a regular user of them. From the suburbs of Wollaton Park to the City Centre it was the way to go. And so inexpensive too! Occasionally the poles that connected with the overhead wires would come off, but the bus conductor would simply drag out a long pole with a hook on the end to re attach them. In frosty weather the first buses of the day gave a spectacular display of sparks as they burned off the frost from the wires. Then they were replaced by motor buses, as fuel was cheap back then. Today Nottingham transport has gone back to using trams. Though I don't live there any more, I still fondly remember the old trolleybus!
I'm a tad too young to recall the trolleybuses running, but I do recall seeing the overhead wires still in place along Arkwright Street as late as 1968.
En route to live back in England in 2002 (for what turned out to be four and a half years), we stopped over in Vancouver. Guess what they had running along outside our hotel as part of what seemed to be a thriving inner city service? Single deck trolley buses! They seemed as normal a phenomenon as Melbourne's trams (we're back in Oz now), so presumably they're still running around in this new super-eco-aware era. I sincerely hope so, it was mesmeric and very nostalgic to see them swing gracefully in and out of their stop at the adjacent crossroads and then flow sinuously around the corner. Took me right back to West Croydon bus station back in the day..
I live in Vancouver and our trolley buses are definitely still going strong! I think there would be massive outcry if they ever wanted to get rid of them. Translink is also expanding into a fleet of battery electric buses, but that's to replace diesel buses on routes that don't have overhead wires, not replace the trolleys, thankfully.
Here in Toronto we had trolleybuses until 1993. One interesting thing about them is how they ran on the same voltage as the streetcars and at a trolleybus and streetcar route intersection, the buses would run on one of its own wires and the streetcar wire until the routes diverged and then the buse would go back to its own two-wire system. I asked a TTC guy why the system was abandoned and he told me that the TTC could only support so many kinds of transit technology. You can still see the poles for it here and there. The trolleybus shed was demolished about 20 years ago and is now a storage yeard for gravel.
When I first visited in 2013, I was thrilled to see the streetcars my parents had always talked about, and indeed travelled on, were still there. I'd been too young when we left to remember anything of Canada.
@@KarenWatsonUK The streetcars you rode have all been replaced with Bombardier Flexity units. Two new lines are under construction but will run as LRT lines.
My Dad told me that when trolley buses first ran he took his first ride. He explained that due to the powerful acceleration his arm was almost pulled out of its socket !
Very interesting video Jago. The last trolleybus in London service was 1521 (FXH 521) Chassis less Metro-Cammell vehicle of 1940. Now preserved at The East Anglian Transport Museum. There was a plan to reintroduce Trolleybuses to the old Uxbridge road route to Shepherds Bush, but local Politian's were against any form of electric traction being used on the Uxbridge Road.
My father drove trolley buses, although not in London, and I remember him going off to work in the winter wearing many layers of clothing and big leather flying gauntlets as there was no heating in the driver's cab.
Busses in london had no heaters right up to the RMs. On the RT the transmission protruded into the lower deck and could get hot, good to warm your feet on. Think of the poor tram driver, standing up with a rudemenstory windscreen. At least in a trollleybus or motor bus you got a seat
Travelled all over London collecting bus numbers in the late Fifties. The hotspots for trolleybuses were Stratford Broadway, Gardeners Corner Aldgate, Kings Cross and best of all, Nags Head Junction Holloway where hundreds could be seen in the course of a day. The final batch, the Q1 class operating in west/south-west London were superb vehicles, so much more pleasant to travel in than most diesel buses in service today.
Whilst being slightly too young to remember the London ones I have been fortunate enough to visit San Francisco on many occasions and they have a most excellent Trolleybus network which was until fairly recently run mostly by the very quirky (and fast) Skoda ETI vehicles which were most agreeable imho. The fleet has been renewed and although it is now possibly slightly more mundane from an enthusiast point of view it remains a very efficient network covering some particularly demanding terrain with heavy loadings.
My mother worked in Warshaws builders merchants in Old Street during the war and mentioned the trolley buses. The upper story windows were protected by a mesh screen because the catenary pickup arms often became detached on the corner and hit the windows.
Remember as a bus-spotting kid, visiting Colindale where the trolleys were dismantled. Grabbed myself lots of bits (!) some of which, sadly, I've still got.
The only trams I've been on were Blackpool and at Crich museum. Boneshakers and so noisy. Trolleybuses were great, super smooth and quiet. Great video thanks.
Great video. You can ride on a Trolley bus at the East Anglia transport museum at Carlton Colville, I went there a few years ago and it was a great day!
Very enjoyable thank you Jago. We had double decker trolley buses imported from the U.K. in both Sydney and Adelaide during my youth. On the City route Potts Point to Town Hall and a Suburban System Rockdale and Kogarah to Dolls Point and Ramsgate. They replaced both a former steam tram and electric tram system. The City service was suspended a few years after the war but the suburban lines ran for another decade. I remember them fondly and when living in Chiswick London I took one home I think from near Trafalgar Square in 1962. Thanks for the pleasant memories.
I can just remember trolleybuses around Hayes Middlesex, at the Grapes Junction in what must have been 1960, when conductors had to move the power lines around. I can also remember going to my aunt and unce in Barry and driving through Cardiff seeing trolleybuses there.
My town Hartlepool got it's trolley busses pretty early in the 1920's with them covering pretty much the whole town. Running up till the 1950's. Sadly nothing remains apart from the streets they ran down even the depot they were stationed at was demolished and now a car park for the railway station.
I lived in North London and rember them very well. They used to cause a big traffic jam at the end of my rd which was near a major junction of Trolley buses turning left or going straight on. The corner quite often resulted in the trolleys coming off the overhead cable and the conductor / driver had to get out and use a long pole to put them back on. This could cause quite a hold up. It was not unusual to see between 6 an 12 trolley buses queued up as they cannot pass each other.
It also meant that the poles had to be hung on poles and readily available - to anybody. Which, given the number of miscreants around these days, leads me to wonder if that would be at all possible today.
Kids used to pull the route change over lever, and if the driver did not notice the route indicator on the box, which was a small whit arrow, would drive straight on while the trolleys tried to turn left, ripping them off the traction wires, and potentially doing damage. I saw that happen. It was surprisingly noisy with the trolley poles wildly spinning , and fortunately no building windows within reach.
I just remember the trolley busses in Finchley. My father was a conductor for LT. The turning circle at East Finchley station was great watching them turn round.
I can remember, as a child, trolleybuses in Wembley, Middlesex. They shared the High Street with motorbuses. Wembley's Lyons Teashop restaurant was on the first floor of a building in the High Street and you could sit there next to the window on the same level as the upstairs deck of both motor and trolleybuses, smiling at the passengers. How's that for a piece of historical trivia?
I remember catching trolleybuses in Bratislava, Slovakia in my first overseas trip from Australia in 2005. I had never seen anything like it! Melbourne's tram network is flourishing, and I thoroughly enjoyed travelling on them during a recent visit.
I was born in 1957 and grew up in Hampton Hill (then still in Middlesex). I can remember the 667 trolleybus running from Hammersmith "Bdy" to Hampton Court and back. We used to catch it to go shopping in Twickenham. My main memory is how quiet they were. If not silent. They had replaced the trams on the same route, and were themselves replaced by the 267 and Routemasters.
@@CaseyJonesNumber1 Yes, I know that. Had I been born when I was due I would have have had "Hampton Court, Middlesex" on my birth certificate. As it is, I suffered the indignity of being born in Kingston Hospital.
@@CaseyJonesNumber1 Mine wouldn't have been the ACTUAL palace, either, but the Bearsted Maternity Hospital. Complete with trolleybus stop right outside. As West Mid must have done as well?
Near where I grew up is the former Chicago, Aurora, & Elgin Railway, an electric interurban line connecting those cities. It ceased operation in 1957 and was later converted into one of the first rail-trails in the country, the Illinois Prairie Path. One day I was cycling along the Batavia Branch and just happened to look up. These former lines are often used as the right-of-way for electric power lines, and indeed the CA&E was part of the electric empire of Samuel Insull, who also owned the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee, the Chicago South Shore & South Bend, and Commonwealth Edison electric utility. He's a Londoner who came to Chicago, an inverted Charles Yerkes. But anyways, I look up, and on one of these poles, there is a suspender for a trolley wire. Still there after the rails were taken up the year my father was born.
At 69 years old, I can still remember waiting to get on the trolley bus whilst the female conductor switched the pickup arms from one set of overhead cables to another set to continue on another route. Billet Road Walthamstow E17. I also remember riding on a steam train from St James Street station near High Street Market Walthamstow.
As a kid i used to love it in winter when my mum would take me shopping to Beresford square market in Woolwich. As the trams and trolleys weaved through the crowds, showers of sparks and blue flashes used to light up the sky. Also, the bus stop beside the arsenal gates was one of the biggest in the country.
I remember the Bradford trollies very well resplendent in their blue livery. They were well suited to Bradford which is in a basin. You can't leave the city without going up a hill so an obvious choice over trams which couldn't cope with many of the gradients
And probably better than diesel buses as well. No surprise then that Bradford had the distinction of being Britain's last trolleybus network, lasting till 1972.
Great video Jago. I recall the Bournemouth trolley buses. They were so much quieter and smoother riding than buses. The livery was yellow and when the council sold the network (in the 80s I recall), they wrote into the tender document that the successful bidder had to continue with the same livery. Maybe yellow was to reflect the sandy beaches!
Trolleybuses are the ideal form of public transport in cities and large towns. They are electric, so have all the now-accepted advantages over diesel. They are not reliant on the huge disadvantages of battery storage on the vehicle, but can use smaller batteries as an adjunct to enable them to roam off the main wired routes, charging up when under the wires, so not requiring expensive and extensive charging points needed by pure battery buses. They wouldn't need such huge expenditure on replacement batteries every five years or so, either, or entail as great a recycling cost. They can cope with much steeper gradients than trams, and don't need reserved track or elaborate traffic control measures. They accelerate far better than diesel buses, and don't drain batteries by doing so. They have regenerative braking, so a trolleybus going down a hill powers one going up. They are truly wonderful things, used still in other countries, and ought to be brought back tomorrow. You missed out the fact that trolleybuses were doomed by London Transport by merging the Central Buses department with the Tram & Trolleybus department. The bus people were in charge of it, and wanted electric traction out. Standardization was the management fad at the time, and those in charge were all bus people. There was even a trolleybus version of the Routemaster on the drawing board, but they soon ripped those up.
I grew up with trolley type busses in the US. We simply called them busses, it was all there were. There may have been diesel busses in areas of the city ( Seattle) with high hills, but the routes I rode were all electric. I remember the sound the wires made when the bus was getting near. In my memory they ran until the early 70s in my inner city neighborhood.
I remember riding in a trolley bus from Barking to East Ham once or twice. Other than that, it was always RTs. And I remember once seeing the driver or conductor taking a pole that was carried on the outside and replacing the trolley poles which had come off the overhead wires.
Trams & Buses have played their part in my life. My maternal Grandmother (and my Mum of course) lived in Bowles Road off Old Kent Road and this had a tram depot in it which changed to buses during their lifetime. The Bus (tram) depot was totally destroyed in the blitz, unfortunately so was my Mum's house! As you've guessed my Mum and family survived without a scratch but lost everything. I have photos of the destroyed Bus garage. My maternal Grandfather drove buses post WW1 after driving Old Bill Bus ambulances in France. My wife's Father & Grandfather worked on London Buses.
I can remember trolley buses in Portsmouth, running in the late 1940s, whilst Southampton still used trams. One advantage of the trolley was that it was very quiet and, of course, could pull into the side of the road to pick up/drop off the passengers . A very interesting film. Thank you.
A very good summary of the life and death of the London trolleybus Jago. Of course the newest ones were shipped overseas for further use. We had the second largest trolleybus system in Belfast and it was fun trying to catch up with them on my push bike going up and down the hills. Once London scrapped there system it became uneconomic for suppliers of equipment to carry on for the remaining municipal systems such as Bournemouth. Of course other countries have continued to use them and you can enjoy a ride on them in San Francisco for example.
Been living near Fulwell depot for over 25 years and I never knew it was the site of the first and last trolleybuses. To be fair I hadn't really given trolleybuses much in the way of thought in my life but you'd think there'd be a little sign or plaque or something.
Experienced trolley buses on a trip to Romania in 1990, they worked pretty well and didn't stink of diesel fumes and have headache inducing engine vibrations. Really quite nice. From time to time a bump in the road would dislodge the cable contacts in a shower of sparks and need the driver to walk round with a pole to put it back.
Shortly after the trams were replaced by trolleybuses, a woman was on her way back from the beer shop with her usual jug of ale. She waited patiently on the street corner for the tram to pass as usual, however trams had now been replaced with trolleybuses and, as it passed closer cutting the off the corner, she was left with a look of apprehension and just the jug handle in her hand. Story told by my grandfather but I wonder how many times this occurred.
I never knew that pole was there and I started my career working for 4 years in the building behind what is now the Enterprise van place so I must have passed that thing a good few hundred times. Oddly enough, I’m currently working for London Trams. I wonder how long the pole will last now that demolition of the buildings behind it has begun?
Two items-1)In the New York area,the only operations of trolleybuses was in Brooklyn,and it was a rather extensive network! 2) Again in the US,trolley retrievers were used,and there were two ropes attached to the trolleypoles,which made it quite convenient for the conductors of the buses! One long time operator of trolleybuses is Dayton,Ohio! Those services are now,about 100 years old,and now,use hybrids,i.e,Diesel-Electric/Electric which is actually close to 150 year old technology! History repeats,and politicians don't read history! Thanks Jago,a most interesting sidelight on London,as it once was!! Thank you 😇!
The Dayton System doesn't use Diesel-Electric, but instead "Battery-Wire" hybrids. The batteries have enough juice to drive the bus. at speed for something like 24-30 miles, and can be recharged while the bus is in motion under-wire.
Until I was about 5 or 6 we lived in North London in Winchmore Hill. This was on the trolleybus route out to (from memory) Enfield and (as my dad took the family's only car to work) my mother and us kids were always on Trolleybusses to go shopping at larger shopping centres such as Palmers Green or Wood Green which were larger than our local one, or on visits to relatives who lived closer into the middle of London. I can still clearly remember some of the characteristics of the Trolleybusses. The quiet, smooth ride, the fantastic (as it seemed to me then) acceleration rate, far greater than I ever experienced in my dad's car! But I also remember there were multiple times when the overhead pickup wires "jumped" off the overhead wires and the bus stopped. Then, the crew had to get out very long wooden poles with a Y shaped hook on the end; these lived in a compartment that ran the length of the bus under the seating area. and the crew used the poles to reattach whichever of the pickups had jumped off the overhead wires. It was like a gigantic version of a fairground game! I can also remember multiple times when the bus halted at a bus stop and would not start again. When that happened, we were all ushered off the bus and told to "wait for the next one" and the crew had to get out the poles and detach the failed bus's pickups from the overhead wires (presumably to prevent it shorting out a section of overhead wire which would stop "the next one" ever reaching us! ). In such an event, the conductor would detach one of the long sideways seat cushions from a failed trolleybus and stand it on the road behind, propped up against the back of the bus - even if it was raining! I do remember my elders being pretty scathing about the trolleybusses reliability - but I also remember them lamenting them being replaced - so I suppose there was affection for them too!
It's such a shame we got rid of our tram networks across the country, espcially with them being a great solution to traffic issues, being sustainable and much more popular than other forms of transport.
The Leeds system only lasted between 1911 & 1928 on 3 routes & was not very successful. There was plans to bring them back as the "NGT" scheme in the early 2000's, but it never happened. The Bradford system lasted a lot longer, opening 4 days after the Leeds one and was the last operated system in the UK, closing in 1972.
👓 Boy from Brum Searched all through these comments and have not found any mention of trolleybuses in Birmingham. The first ones replaced the short Nechells tram route in the 1920s and the only other route to be opened, again replacing trams was along the Coventry Road. Trams originally ran to Yardley but when converted the route was extended to Sheldon, not far from what became Birmingham International Airport. The main fleet were of six wheel formation but some additional four wheelers were subsequently added. The Nechells route was closed soon after the beginning of WW2 due to operational difficulties but Coventry Road lasted until 1952, when the fleet needed complete replacement and the trolleybuses joined in the tram scrapping exercise. I well remember travelling on them on occasions with my father and the the most remarkable thing was the rate of acceleration when leaving stops. One needed to hang on tight or get to a seat pretty swiftly! I also recognise the comments about the sizzling sound from the overhead wires when a bus was coming.
Yes, my mum took us on the Outer Circle bus to the Swan, Yardley, and then on the trolley bus to Sheldon, finally walking to Elmdon (now BHX) for the 1948? Kings Cup Air race - magic!
As a child in the fifties I lived in Leytonstone, a suburb of London. I used 5o accompany my mother to visit my paternal grandparents who lived in Plumstead, South East London. We would alight the 661 trolleybus in Leytonstone High Road and travel to the Woolwich Free Ferry via Stratford Broadway. Quite often the trolley would become detached from the overhead cables causing the conductor to dismount the bus and withdraw a pole from underneath the vehicle and reattach the trolleys to the cables. After crossing the Thames to South Woolwich we would continue our journey to my grandparents house on the really ‘old fashioned’ tram.
I just remember trolleybuses from early childhood, although my grandmother didn't live in a part of London where they ran. We did, however, see them when going out of town. They really ought to bring them back - while they do have their limitations, they are far and away the least polluting kind of vehicle. After all, the batteries required to run an electric or hybrid bus or car are themselves very polluting
We had Trolleybuses in Maidstone until February, 2967 run by Maidstone And District and a sister company Hastings And District in Hastings. Remember riding on them as a child and the huge roundabout at the top of Nottingham Avenue was the turning circle.
Maidstone Corporation ran the trollys in Maidstone, not M and D. I used to catch the Loose or Park Wood trolly from the town centre, up Stone St. to Maidstone Grammar School during my first year there. The school Transport Society had a special trip when they were replaced and we covered every last metre of the network.
@@richardthomasmillican3980 Ok fair enough I may have made a mistake but there were definitely trolley buses in Hastings which looked similar as I have seen a video which says trolley buses in Maidstone but in one section you can clearly see it is Hastings and not Maidstone. Thanks for the correction.
Just a few sketchy memories of trolley buses being used in Barking, Essex. The one thing that sticks in my mind is the conductor having to use a long wooden pole to reconnect the bus to the overhead lines whenever they become detached
I personally think we shoul restore the trollybus to replace bus routes. A trolly bus is more environmentally friendly than even a hybrid or an electric bus, as batteries only return about 70% of the energy you put into them. That's a 30% loss of energy the trolly bus does not encounter, in addition to not needing to haul around a large and extremely heavy rare earth battery whose construction was both exceedingly expensive and which significantly poisoned the planet. By comparason, a trollybus needs no rare earth batteries, as it can make do with cheaper simpler batteries for it's short hop with long charge times.
Sounds too much like common sense .
You are absolutely right.
As well as that, batteries decline over the years, so less and less of the electricity that is put in the battery is used to power the traction motors.
The efficiency of battery power exchange is a very relevant point. I've started to wonder if corded power tools might start to make a comeback for just that reason. Good point, thank you.
I wpuld also argue to implement the same tech into motorways on the outer lane for lorries.
Lithium batteries have a charging/discharging efficiency of about 95%. The 70% figure you're quoting is more typical of lead-acid batteries.
Trolleybus wiring runs at 750 volts, so there are some non-negligible power losses there, since each vehicle could draw in excess of 100 amps when accelerating from a standstill. You have a practical limit on wire thickness before weight and lack of flexibility becomes an issue.
I'd have to dig up more details on wire cross-section, substation placement and number of vehicles on the network, but things aren't as clear cut in terms of efficiency as they seem.
And then there's the cost of maintaining the electrical infrastructure, which isn't negligible.
I used Trolleybuses about 20 years ago in Geneva and thought to myself "These make a lot of sense, probably why we don't have them back in the UK".
I too lived in Switzerland for a while and the trolleybuses were a life saver when I used to visit a friend in Lausanne
They should never have been got rid of. More practical than trams (no rails needed), and environmentally greener than ordinary buses. Getting rid of trolleybuses in our cities was one of the biggest transport mistakes we made in the 20th century. Very insightful video Jago. 👏
Trams, at least in the 21st century, make much sense than trolley buses. They have much lower friction, fewer consumables (tires etc) and are generally much higher capacity with faster boarding due to multiple doors. This means they’re much cheaper to run than buses or trolley buses due to lower fuels costs and lower driver costs (per passenger). They’re also much easier to segregate from traffic thus easier to make more reliable. Given Britain’s cities are generally too small for subways, trams are definitely the most sensible option for the core of public transport going forward. As long as you’re happy to front the upfront costs (which are obviously much higher) they are generally profitable on a day to day basis. Which means if you’re a city trying to build a long term public transport network that isn’t so vulnerable to public cuts, trams are the way to go as you can’t cut money that’s already spent.
@@jamesmarsh6853 A very good comment. Couldn`t agree more. There are always goods and so so goods about any system. If a bit more effort was made to accommodate the tram systems - they would, as you have intimated, pay back dividends. Unfortunately, short term tinkering for profits so often seems the norm. That wot I fink, Guv!
@@jamesmarsh6853 Trams cost more than double the cost to build compared to trolley busses because of the cost of track in streets . Trolley busses can be made articulated, with lots of doors, just like modern trams and carry as many passengers. New designs can be self stearing.
@@terryflynn8830 So far I haven't seen any trolleybuses with low floors (on level with platforms) and that makes trams better for the elderly, people with prams and people with disabilities. Also a more comfortable ride.
What matters is the population density to make the investment worthwhile, but I can't recall the commonly accepted numbers among professionals (which I'm not).
@@kalle911 Low floor trolleybusses exist. Visit Zurich to ride some. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus_usage_by_country#/media/File:LighTram3-Linie-31-Zürich-Bild-1.jpg
As a little kid, I remember the trams in Leicester. Mother did her best to avoid them as they were "too rough". In 1965 I went to Perth AU and they had a fantastic network of trolly busses. People including myself were upset at the loss of trolly buses being replaced by motorized buses. Melbourne never got rid of the trams and today the network is growing.
There are some nice driver's view rides of the Melbourne network on CZcams. I watch them all the time, there are a number of authors who have uploaded videos of that awesome network. I'm glad to hear that's growing.
Melbourne is the only Australian city that never had trolleybuses, I remember the Sydney trolleybuses in the ‘60s. They were single decker vehicles. Newcastle (NSW) has this clever idea of running battery/capacitor trams without an overhead wire, a pantograph pops up at each stop and charges the supercaps to give it power to go to the next stop.
I do like the Chinese idea of a rubber tyred vehicle that looks like a tram but follows special marks on the road. So a tram without tracks. So not actually like a bus. It has a low profile like a tram. I haven’t heard much about them nowadays so I wonder if there was a show-stopper issue that made them not feasible.
@@darylcheshire1618 the problem with them is the damage to the roads. The axle weight is double the heaviest bus and when they trolley track along the same part of the road it very quickly develops gutters. So if you end up having to rebuild the road maybe you should have just built a tram line.
franc@@darylcheshire1618 A city in France had a system sort of like the Chinese one you mention. A single rail as a guide but it ran on rubber tyres with overhead wire. They eventually made it a conventional tram line as they found it really didn't work well. I can't recall the city, maybe Nantes?
@@lawrencelewis2592 That is interesting about the damage to the roads. In South Australia there is an o-bahn which uses concrete track in it’s own reservation. Ordinary buses are used with metal rims attached to the bus wheels, these rims run on the concrete track. When the bus leaves the concrete track, it just runs like an ordinary bus.
It’s been a few years now, I’d like to know the pros and cons of this arrangement.
Glasgow's Trolleybuses gained the nickname "The Silent Death" thanks to their quiet motors and pneumatic tyres...there was a few accidents occurring over the years! They lasted here til 1967, 5 years after the last trams ran, and they didn't receive anywhere near the fanfare the last procession did for the tramcar. An unsung workhorse you could call them.
I believe they were called that in London too.
The Belgian Coast tramline (about 60 km long) had a similar problem. Before the 1980s the trams were so noisy you could hear them from miles away, warning people for the oncoming vehicle. The new 1980s trams however were so silent they had to be equipped with a claxon with foghorn ambition. This claxon can also be heard miles away. Problem solved.
There's a story, which I think is true, that the American singer Dionne Warwick did a concert in Glasgow in the early 60s. On her way to (or from?) the theatre she stepped into the road and was promptly run over by a trolleybus which she hadn't heard coming. Fortunate to get away with cuts and bruises. Silent death indeed
And in Dundee, according to my father...
@@superted6960 Yep a miracle indeed; apparently, she hadn't put on her make up. Many fans said a little prayer which also helped 😄
When I visited Seattle a decade ago I was pleasantly surprised to find their diesel buses switched to overhead power in the downtown area. To the people who might say power stations still burn fuel I say "yes but not in the street, you choose the location of a power station".
Also, the grid is agnostic. Wires don't know what fuel was burned (or sunshine collected, or wind harnessed) to make the electricity. In most places electricity has gotten cleaner at a rate that is faster than internal combustion engines.
@@HarryLovesRuth The other bonus of central power electricity generation is that it is far easier to clean the emissions of a power station than to clean the emissions of millions of individual combustion engines. Some of the captured emissions of a power station even have value and use when captured in sufficient quantities rather than just being belched out into the atmosphere. There are downsides to such capturing of emissions of course, but there are downsides to everything but the relative downsides compared to the opportunities are rather high. Even the move from 90% to 99% capture is relatively low cost particularly compared to the benefits; it cuts into profits a little of course and that's often where the arguments against it start to come from.
Most of Seattle’s electricity comes from hydro dams and most of the rest comes from other renewables. Only a small amount comes from fossil fuels.
The power grid in Seattle has a large amount of hydro electric in it.
(They do still burn a surprisingly large amount of coal or gas in the area given the plentiful hydro power, but it's not the worst part of the US in that regard).
Here in Latvia the only fossil fuel we burn for electricity is natural gas and that's more in winter when we need heating, in summer the grid is mostly hydro, solar, wind and nuclear via cable from Sweden, grids are getting cleaner all the time in EU
The Dutch city of Arnhem has been operating a trollybus network singe 1949. Currently there are 6 lines, in and around Arnhem, next to 6 more ordinary bus lines.
In this age of electrically powered vehicles being all the rage the trolleybuses are considered quite modern. 😄
I had a memorable day in Arnhem riding the trolleybuses in the 90s. Some of them were then a bit elderly and rattly to be honest, but they still shot away from the stops! I guess it must be the nearest place to the UK where they still run trolleybus services.
They are even starting on "Trolley 2.0": Battery electric buses that run as normal trolley buses on the central core of the network and then wireless on the outer reaches.
The reason Arnhem started with trolleybuses is the city is quite hilly and diesel and petrol buses of the period were not powerful enough.
@@IIVQ The combination of wires for the busy central core and battery for the outer suburban extensions (with recharge points at termini) seems a neat idea. As long as trolley poles can be raised and lowered simply - not the case in London and other contemporary networks. Battery might also help trolleybuses to leave the wires and navigate round obstructions.
@@iankemp1131 It works well. I have been drive about 10km without trolley wire, we had coffee at a coworkers house. In Arnhem they have a system to automatically raise the trolley poles to the wires (at select locations), driver doesn't need to leave his vehicle. Later this year the revenue service to Wageningen should start.
And trolleybuses could always move around obstacles as they have a small combustion engine onboard.
I used a trolleybus from Surbiton to Kingston every day at the start of my time at Grammar School.
Poor maintenance was probably the cause of the frequent loss of connection at the 'points' in the power wires at a junction in the heart of Kingston, and the resulting, frequent, rush hour chaos.
And then there was the problem of the 1938 batteries which were supposed to power the trolleybuses far enough to get them out the way when they broke down. Suffice it to say that a team of 11 and 12 year old schoolboys, myself included, have never forgotten what pushing a N°602 feels like.
The battery problem would be much less of a problem today, better maintenance and improved detailing of the 'points' would be less of a problem today and the fast acceleration of the gear-free trolleybuses might speed daily commutes.
All that said, however, the inflexibility of any system dependent on a physical electrical connection remains. In the case of the Croydon trams, much of their routes was formed from pre-existing railway routes and was thus already separated from other traffic and also thus they've worked very well. The DLR had the same advantages.
Elsewhere in London, no obvious further easy gains for trams or trolleybuses present themselves but maybe, just maybe, both may have a future in other UK conurbations where existing provisions have been allowed to decay.
Edinburgh comes to mind, maybe with the never-to-be-completed Edinburgh tramways to be, at least in part, completed with trolleybuses. Now, there's a thought.
Very interesting. Were you at KGS or (like me) Tiffins? We lived at Winters Bridge, across the road from the 282 trolleybus terminus. There's a photo somewhere of an 11-year-old me standing in front of the last ever service, on 30 Dec 1966.
Whoops! That date must be when the last 282 bus ran, since the last trolleybus set out in 1962. Sorry.
The "Oxford Street Plan" could have been implemented a lot easier than critics made out. Natural turning circles at Marble Arch and Holborn would have worked a treat and motor buses could have been taken off the road between the Tottenham Court Road end and the west end of Oxford Street. All sorts of excuses were put forward by the detractors as to why Trolleybuses should not be reintroduced, one of which even complained about Lots Road Power Station! Bring the wires back I say!
But why do it with wires? Nowadays battery or hybrid vehicles with a recharge point at each end would seem more flexible. I guess wires make more sense for a short self-contained route that won't be extended, but how useful is that?
Ottawa are introducing battery power electric buses. See how they go at -25C temperatures?
@@iankemp1131 Turnaround times are often only 5 - 10 minutes when running to time zero when late barely time to have a cuppa let alone any charge to a battery. When many buses are running late due to peak hour traffic they are often turned short of destination to plug the gaps in the opposite direction.
@@iankemp1131 Batteries have a lot of safety (less than perfect battery design, or significant damage, results in the whole thing going up in flames in seconds, and the fire can't actually be put OUT short of burrying the thing in several times its weight in sand. Consequently firefighters response is to corden it off and let it burn itself out.), numerous environmental and ethical issues with acquring the materials for making the battery (generally considered better than continuing to use fossel fuels, but still bad and to be minimised), power to weight ratio issues (modern batteries have very high energy density. It's still not better than petrol (though that's made up by the entire battery + motor arangement weighing less than the entire fuel tank, engine, and drive train of an ICE vehicle in cars), and the larger the vehicle, the bigger the impact that has. There are other issues as well. Most or all of which can be solved or reduced by way of using overhead wires instead. (though, of course, the flexability issue still applies. Modern capacitors are pretty good though, so short of having to substantially change the entire route, they can usually do well enough for the situations where the trolley bus needs to disconnect. Which also lets you have No wires rather than a horrible, complicated snarl, at complicated intersections (such as depots or major hubs).)
The bureaucrats in The City would scream blue murder over putting up overhead wires; they used this excuse to stop London's first trams from entering inner CBD. When the conduit system was proposed (and introduced in the inner suburbs) they came up with more excuses. I think the real reason was to keep the hoi polloi out of the fashionable shopping streets.
Today's version of the conduit system is far more reliable and safe; no excuses this time.
I loved living along a trolley bus route in San Francisco, which still has dozens of trolley bus routes. The ghostly 'tish' sound along the wires, when the bus was a few blocks away, meant it was time to get my arse outside and towards the stop on the corner (14th & Castro, for the 24, in case you're wondering), and the same sound was soothing to fall asleep to.
I'd say this is one of your most comprehensive videos. I loved it.
Ha! I know that area (not incredibly well, but still!). Went to SF on several occasions for conferences. I usually stayed in the marina district (so I could take the cable car every morning), but had colleagues staying in all sorts of places. Used to go for dinner all over the city, usually somebody had an idea.
Need to go to San Francisco (with flowers in my - now grey - hair).
How wonderful would love to visit San Fran but at 70 & on a UK state pension, think my travelling days are over 🤔
One reason for them in San Francisco is probably the hills. Castro/Divisadero Street (24 route) has some pretty steep ones. The electric buses can climb them and there's no diesel engine roaring. Unlike tracked trolleys the buses do need two wires.
Do NOT under any circumstances refer to it as "San Fran". Or Frisco for that matter. The locals hate it. Always refer to it as San Francisco.@@tomgirldouble3249
@@9cjl point noted San Francisco it is🤗👍🏻❤️🖤🌸
Thanks as ever Jago! I grew up in Brentford and used to go to school on the 657 trolleybus, so imagine my pleasure in seeing your pictures of a trolleybus from my youth! I have fond memories of the trolleybuses in West London. They had many advantages, their only serious disadvantage being that they couldn't pass each other without lowering their collector arms. Many will remember having waited for an overdue trolleybus only to find three or even more turn up together because of some traffic hold up. The first one would be packed, and the others would be nearly empty. Having said that though, they could seat more passengers than the diesel buses and were considerably quieter. We need them today, as you suggest. They were well before their time in terms of their low pollution and noise levels. Whilst the British may not be thinking of bringing them back, our colleagues on the Continent simply don't have the same mindset. Alongside the vast number of modern tram networks, many cities have modern trolleybuses - look no further than Riga, Bern, Luzern, Salzburg, etc. etc. Even San Francisco has trolleybuses. By comparison, we do tend to be blinkered when it comes to public mass transport don't we?
It's one of the slightly geeky things that I enjoy when going around a European city - going on the trams or trolleybuses. There's no fear of them because for many purposes they are easy to conceptualise as above ground and shorter underground trains. Just much easier and cheaper to deploy and extend.
Another comment mentioned that Arnhem is considering trolleybuses with a battery for outer suburbs, That would also allow them to deviate round obstructions or other buses. The big question to me would be whether the trolley poles could be raised and lowered regularly with 100% reliability.
In Salzburg, we call them the "O-Bus" routes (="Oberleitungsbus").
Happy memories of the 607 trolleybus. It had been the number 7 tram route, and became the 207 Routemaster route. The future is electric.
When I first lived in London (early 1980s), the 207 bus ran all the way from Uxbridge to Shepherd's Bush Green - the route is a lot shorter nowadays..
I remember the trolleybuses in Bournemouth, and in particular the final runs in 1969. The need for a turning circle was eased at the Christchurch end of the line by the use of a turntable - one of only five in the world, according to Wikipedia. There are even some photos online showing it in use by buses in 'Bournemouth Corporation' livery - yellow with two maroon (?) bands. My mother, and various other members of my family, worked on the buses and trolley-buses, including the open-top trolleybuses (which I recall riding). I recall her telling me the story of her first day as a 'clippy' (as female conductors were known) on the trolleybuses. At the end of the line (presumably at the turntable) is was necessary to move the 'arms' from one overhead cable to another, and to do this the long pole with a hook was used (this was also needed if the arms came off the cable). The pole cane be seen in the video at 7:52 onwards. What they didn't tell her (and I suspect they did this to all newbies), was that there is a powerful spring pushing the arm up onto the cable. So once you have pulled down on the arm and moved it to one side, it is necessary to keep a firm hold of the pole to avoid the spring pulling it out of your hands and flinging it through the air like a javelin - inevitable the first time someone tries it, I suspect.
As a boy I remember watching the crew push the turntable round at Christchurch, I hardly recognised the place a few years back.
I remember the buses smelt like BO, old farts and tobacco - exactly the same as old telephone boxes which my Brother and I would regularly frequent hoping somebody had forgotten to press button 'B' - only once where we rewarded with 4d but we kept trying.
@@marklatimer7333 Me too, I remember being taken to telephone box by my sis to learn how to use it, it was Cub badge then I think.
@@David-ci1vn I wasn't allowed to join the cubs or scouts because my Mother had a deep seated suspicion about Scout Leaders, she thought there was something very strange about grown men who wear shorts, I believe history has proved her right on more than one occasion.
@@marklatimer7333 Mine was okay, he married my sister!
Toronto used to have a few trolley bus routes, but these disappeared in the 1970s. The trams nearly disappeared at that time as well, until a massive public demonstration ensured that they remained. Vancouver still has trolley buses.
I started secondary school in September 1960, and distinctly recall travelling on trolleybuses (routes 653 and 627) from Finsbury Park to Camden Town each day before they were replaced by routemasters around 1961/2 and were renumbered 253 and 127.
You’re right, the earliest trolleys were known by their drivers as “diddlers” because, unlike the earlier trams, they could diddle about in the traffic. I used to live in Goodmayes, quite close to Fulwell Cross (not Fulwell), the end of Route 691. Our local trolleybus service, the 663, ran East along the A118, (Goodmayes) High Road, to Chadwell Heath, where it turned off right, round a one-way road triangle via Station Road and Wangey Road, where it terminated near the Gaumont Cinema before heading back along the High Road towards Aldgate, London. I remember my Mum taking me one day to wave goodbye to our last trolleybus, which I guess was about 1960. After that, we were served by the No. 86 bus, a Routemaster, which went all the way to Romford. I think there was also a Service 193, usually with RT traction. Thanks for a very interesting overview of the “Trolleys”.
The 663 originally ran from Aldgate to Ilford and there was a 695 which ran from Bow to Chadwell Heath. I lived in Victoria Road, Barking and the 691 and 693 trolleybuses ran at the end of the road. These were operated by the SA class of trolleybus which were intended to run in South Africa, in Johannesburg and Durban, but , because of World War 2 were diverted to London instead. They were the first 8 feet wide vehicles to run. The normal legal limit was 7 feet 6 inches wide in those days.
@@RonFer1945 Good to hear from an expert! That would be Ilford Lane. If you'd then gone up Longbridge Rd, Goodmayes Lane and Barley Lane, which used to carry the 238 bus, you'd have passed near my old family home. Cheers!
That's another explanation for the early London trolleybuses being called 'diddlers'.
It's often credited to the sound of the Westinghouse brake pump; a familiar sound on the Underground, but quite startling on a road vehicle.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Thanks, I love that sound, especially the way it dropped in pitch as the compressor slowed due to the traction motors drawing power to accelerate the train. Very evocative of the '60s to me.
My grandfather used to work as an engineer out of the old Plumstead Garage during the days of the trolley bus and then RMs. The route 696 used to go from Woolwich to Dartford and near the top of our road was a tight bend after a straight run. If the buses had not slowed down for the bend they would unhook from the lines. This happened so much they stored a pole at the shop next to the bend (yes there was storage on the vehicles for a pole but they were usually missing). My grandfather also stole a pole with hook to keep the guttering on our house clear. Wickham hill on that route is fairly steep and the trolley buses used to take it in their stride, but the RMs used to struggle going up hill. I remember being a child and watching some one walk up the hill quicker than the RM I was on.
Yes - ex LT conductor here, Mortlake Garage - the RM was a superb vehicle, but give it a steep hill and it struggled like it was towing an earth mover. The older drivers, while generally loving the RM, lamented only that one flaw when compared to the RT which had a petrol engine and took hills like a climber. Guess it's true: diesels don't like hills.
I too remember the old Plumstead and Abbey Wood garages. Wasn't old enough to see trolleybuses but do remember route 171a, Sunday only Abbey Wood to Tottenham replaced by 180a in '72.
Thanks for postingTrolley buses have been running for 74 years in Vancouver. In North Toronto there was the Nortown route which was active until 20 years ago.
I remember traveling on trolley buses in the 50’s and they were great. Would like to see them return.
My father was a trolley bus driver in Newcastle upon Tyne. I remember them with great affection.
In terms of making a comeback, especially on the streets of London, I fear their time has passed.
The arrival of the completely electric (battery powered) bus means we now have the best of both worlds. A "clean" power source and the ability to divert around obstacles and incidents at will.
In many respects the experience of riding an electric bus is not dissimilar to riding a trolley bus.
Completely electric buses will be very expensive, due to the need for a magnum capacity battery. Trolley buses would be cheaper to build, including the infrastructure.
Battery buses are heavier (big batteries), more expensive (big batteries), need to charge (big batteries), and have a nasty habit of burning down the bus depot (you guessed it, big batteries).
If only there were a technology that removed the need for these batteries, but kept the advantages of electric public transport...
I'm in favour of trackless trollies that can automatically couple to the wires while moving - if you have this system, you can get rid of complicated wire crossings/points at junctions.
trolly buses have lower overall cost compared to bat buses. trolly buses use less power for the same route, (much better regen efficiency, plus lower maitance cost. plus less power used per acceleration. this is even more useful on routes with long hills sense the down grade buses can send the majority of the power to the uphill buses
@@C.I... Electric buses are very heavy too, they will destroy any surface they are driven on- driving up the cost of road repairs and the delays caused in the process.
@@C.I... The new metros coming to Newcastle this year have smaller batteries and can use the wires and battery in a hybrid way.
There is a section of trunk road in Germany that has wires overhead to allow charging of electric lorries en route. This allows much smaller batteries to be fitted with improvements in payload and economics. Perhaps the same could be applied in cities to electric busses, sections of the route being electrified and the busses carrying enough battery capacity to drive between them. My parents lived in Croydon during the trolleybus era and thought they were terrific.
czcams.com/video/_3P_S7pL7Yg/video.html
Unless battery technology improves, the future could be induction charging from plates under the roads or under bus stops to charge batteries. Magnetic induction technology has advanced significantly in recent years, both in efficiency and the distances between the induction plates. In Gumi, South Korea they have been experimenting with an 8 mile route for OLEV (Online Electric) buses.
It's called opportunity charging and it's being introduced across Europe for bus operations, including in the UK. Problem is that the initial infrastructure cost is horrendous and (as ever) UK government likes shouting about how much they're doing but not actually coming up with the cash to do it. :(
@@frglee even with improvements, I have a hard time imagining induction (~50%, but let’s say they bring it even as far as 75%) could compare to a battery (95%).
Tom Scott on YT did a video on this around a year ago - search for 'Lubeck' on his channel. I commented that someone had re-invented the trolleybus.
We have waited over 40 years for trolleybuses to return to West Yorkshire but, despite several plans nothing has happened. This is mostly because Westminster has no interest in spending on public transport in cities outside London. Bradford's trolleybuses were quick, quiet and very popular. The politicians got rid of them, not the ordinary people! One route near my home used to run every 10 minutes until 11.30 as a trolleybus service. Nowadays its diesel bus replacement runs every 60 minutes in the evening until 10.00!
South Yorkshire PTE had a trolly bus built in 1985 which was tested on its own track and deemed successful, however I believe deregulation of the bus services put pay to plans to reintroduce them. It now resides at the Trolly Bus museum at Sandtoft, Lincolnshire which is well worth a visit.
The dumb thing about that museum is you can't get there without a car. I just in the middle of Nowhere. I'd love to go but I can't drive.
@@sterlinghartley2165 Yes, it's on an old airfield. Worth a visit. I think they occasionally run connecting vintage buses from Doncaster station? Similar problem to Crich Tramway Museum (or Beamish) though the former can be walked from Whatstandwell if you're fit!
@@iankemp1131 Critch is fairly near 2 station and has a bus you can catch to be closer (I've looked into going, just need to save up and get the time of work). Can't speak for Beamish tho I'd love to go.
The vintage bus thing would be nice if there was a schedule or something, I haven't found one tho.
@@sterlinghartley2165 Both Beamish and Crich are served by Buses.
These should come back. A modern trolleybus could have enough battery power on board to reroute around disruptions and the ability to reconnect to the wires automatically without stopping, but wouldn't have to have the massive battery packs required to run entirely without wires. The wires could also be used for other municipal vehicles like garbage trucks and snow plows, maybe even delivery trucks.
Modern tech could also allow automatic pole alignment, meaning one could eliminate crossings/points at junctions too.
@@C.I... Or you could just install the overhead at stops, which is how most modern electric buses work. It's not either/or.
@@francisboyle1739 yes, that is the best of both worlds.
@@C.I... Or just use a pantograph like trains and trams cutting cost a bit and making operation significently easier.
@@francisboyle1739 The issue here is that with higher battery capacity comes higher weight and thus higher road surface wear. One of the advantages of trolleybuses is that they're actually lighter than even the diesel buses, which allows them, among other things, to perform better in hilly terrain and to be less harmful to roads.
I don't remember trolleybuses in London, but I do remember them in Reading. They had the advantage of being quieter and not putting out fumes, but they did seem a bit quaint even to a child, as I was then.
I can remember as a child in West Belfast, the Trolley Bus's at the top of our street. When the boom fell of the over head power cable ,the conductor had to get a pole out and hoist it back up. Something dangerous as they often got shocked! From memory it was a bamboo pole.This was in the mid sixties.
I used to go to cubs on the trolley bus. Better than trams as no rails needed, just overhead supply. Clean, environmentally. It was 2d to go to cubs and 3d to go to town, ( this was obviously pre-decimalisation)Then all the electrical buses disappeared, until now when suddenly its highly desirable for everything to go electric. We also had battery powered milk floats. They still run trolley buses at the Black Country Living Museum in Dudley.
In the 1950/60s I lived in Tolworth - opposite the terminus of route 601 (Tolworth - Twickenham via Surbiton, Kingston, Teddington and Fulwell) and often travelled this route as my mother had a friend who lived near Kneller Hall (Whiton). I loved the fierce (but smooth) acceleration of the trollybus. In the 1970s and 80s (having spent ten years in banking) I decided on a change of career and I learnt to drive buses (RTs, RMs, RFs, Metros and others) first out of Kingston, then Norbiton, then Fulwell garages. In the 1990s, after a break of six years from public transport, in 1999 I joined Tram Operations (a year before the system opened to the public) and became one of the first dozen drivers on that system. later assisting in the training of new drivers. So this video holds many memories for me as I have connections with much of it.
The trolley bus was a great excuse for the reason for being late to school (Perth, Western Australia) when the pole fell from the lines and the conductor had to get off the bus, get his big pole to get all back in order. Sadly, when I used the excuse it was never accepted. So many good memories…
Leeds City Transport ran a fine fleet of trams. Mum and I used to catch one at Compton road/Harehills lane for trips into Leeds and a little train spotting at Central station.
Moving to huddersfield in 1962, I enjoyed 1d rides on their fine 6 wheeler trolleys to school and back, taking great enjoyment and entertainment watching a hapless connie trying to capture the tentacles with a very large bamboo pole.
I was sad to see them go in 1968 along with my beloved steam trains.
Emigrating to Australia I and friends acquired an AEC regent III from Chullora bus depot and spent six years living in it and touring Australia.
This led to lifetime employment as a bus driver in Yorkshire, Queensland and Western Australia before starting my own bus charter business running ex wa govt. Mercedes’ and Leyland panther buses.
This video pleased me immensely and I only wish I had not filmed more for myself.
Thank you
Great, a video on trolley busses 🙂 I happen to live in a city where they still run! Here they were actually introduced after WWII to replace the heavily damaged tram network whilst retaining the electrical infrastructure. One of the other draws over diesel busses at that time was probably that the city, Arnhem, is one of the few places in the Netherlands where we happen to have some hills and electric vehicles offered an advantage in terms of acceleration. Over the years off-course many plans came and went to abolish them, only recently for busses running on bio-gas (ugh...), due to higher operating cost. But their distinctively light blue livery and uniqueness in this part of Europe has made them a bit of a local pride. More recently new trolley busses have been ordered with larger electric batteries on board have that can significantly the routes, so I think the future may look bright here for the trolley bus 😀
Busses running on gas, even the most modern ones, can catch fire (ask me how I know), so you're really lucky in avoiding this route.
@@F1ghteR41 well we do have some bio-gas busses running on regional routes. Luckily no major incidents since they were introduced as far as I know...
@@F1ghteR41 Buses running on diesel can also catch fire, as the Maltese will happily tell you while ranting about how useless their ex-London bendibuses were! Stagecoach East Midlands also had a spate of buses burning out a few years ago.
@@atraindriver Didn't know that, thanks for telling.
@@atraindriver the Maltese used to have some belting old buses running out of Valletta. The type I used used to see on old movies when I was a kid. Some had to be bump started down the ramp from the bus turn in Valletta to get them going, and god forbid they stall out in the wilds because the electric starters weren't up to getting them going again. Along with all the old cars of my teen hood like anglias and sunbeams and sprites, it was magnificent!
A trolley battery hybrid is very practical idea. In the city center the overhead wires power the bus as well as recharging the batteries plus at the terminus a recharge station could be available . It's the recharge time of the batteries that is normally an issue but if all they have to do get to/from the city centre before being recharged as they go through the center (where most time is taken) then they become more feasible. A diversion where a major city centre route is involved is such a major upheaval temporary overhead power could be rigged?
I do indeed remember trolleybuses with fondness. It was always a treat to watch the conductor replace a dislodged pantograph using a really long pole kept on board for the purpose.
I remember the trolley buses in Maidstone, Kent when I was a kid in the late ‘50’s. They used to go past my house when we lived in Sutton Rd.
I travelled on the last 630 from West Croydon to Mitcham. We were closely followed by another trolleybus showing 'Private'. Next day the 630 route was replaced by the 220 and 64 using the then new Routemasters. The northbound 630 was noted for its oddly imprecise destination: 'Near Willesden Junction'.
I believe the term 'trolleybus' derived from the early power pickup being a four-wheeled trolley running along the top of the wires with a cable hanging down between them pulling the trolley along, rather than sprung poles with wheels running below as universally adopted.
The trolleybuses running from Bournemouth to Christchurch in Dorset had a turntable for reversing at the end of the route: the conductor would pull down and hook the poles, then he and the driver would push the whole lot round to face the other way, before re-wiring the poles and setting off back to Bournemouth.
Where a route diverged, the overhead wires had their own 'points' which were switched if necessary by the driver applying power at a certain distance from the junction; in heavy traffic the unavoidable stopping and starting could lead to incorrect switching and de-wiring, so some busy junctions had the overhead points some distance from the change of route, allowing the driver to trigger the route change in advance and run on a parallel pair of wires to the junction.
I remember the trolleys on the Crystal Palace to Croydon route. At the palace there was a roundabout so a trolley buscoming up Anerly Hill could reverse ready to go back down. I never saw it myself but dewiring going round the roundabout wass not unknown. The was a bamboo pole kept on the roundabout for the purpose. Now the trolley busses did carry a pole slung underneath the chassis but to get it out required all the trafffic behind to be moved back 12 to 13ft to slide it out.
Another interesting point is that Anerly hill is steep and the trolleybusses laid over facing down the hill. The handbrake was not relied upon and a concrete scotch was deployed
I was born at Wheathill flats in Anerly, lived there until 1956 and occasionally rode on the trolley buses to Penge where I went to school in St Johns Road.
We would sometimes walk to school taking short cuts through the bomb sites.
Interesting point about roundabouts. They are so much more widespread nowadays that it might prove a problem for trolleybuses, though hopefully better methods have been found for stopping the pole dewiring.
"concrete scotch" ..?
@@ACELog A scotch or chock is a lump of material, usually wood, sometimes metal triangular in shape. A scotch or chock is placed in front of a wheel to stop a vehicle from moving. Railway men refer to them as scotches (I am a volunteer railway man) and road users as chocks
I lived in Carshalton in the 1950s and I remember the trolley busses coming along our road. I can still picture the sparks that used to come off the pickups.
I used to go shopping with my parents in the early 1950's and take the trolley bus from Friern Barnet to Wood Green.They were very quiet,and as a 5 year old I looked forward to this ride.
I seem to recall one problem they had was that the poles connected to the overhead cables could come away and then had to be reconnected by the bus conductor and driver. This was often a struggle particularly in a strong wind.and passengers were not impressed when it happened several times on a short journey.
I was born in 1955, but can clearly remember travelling regularly on the 630 Trolleybus with my mum from West Croydon to Earlsfield to visit an aunt. I must have only been about 5 or 6 years old. If memory serves me correctly that Trolleybus route was replaced by the 220 route using brand new Routemaster buses which replicated the 630 route, which was from West Croydon to Harlesdon. Years later in the late 1980's I worked with an older man who used to drive Trolleybuses for London Transport in his younger days.
Thank you for giving the trolley bus a quick step into the limelight. As I understand it my home town Belfast had the second biggest trolley bus network in the UK and I remember using them during my childhood. As you said, they never seemed to gather the affection or following of lots of other mass transport types but I always think of them fondly. The driver using the gigantic bamboo to replace the pantograph if it slipped off the wire was quite the spectacle for a wide eyed child of the time. Thanks again, I really enjoyed that.
I grew up in West London in the 50s and 60s and fondly remember the trolley busses that served London north of the river, ( I grew up in Richmond. As a child I used to think that the trolley buses were the new futuristic transport. They had more room, didn’t smell and accelerated more quickly. I wish we had them in Richmond and Sheen. North of the river my parents and I would use trolley buses in preference to the diesel buses, even when we had to wait longer. How I miss them!
Great video 👍🙂
Being a born and bred Jo'burg boy, I can remember the extensive trolley bus network, from the Jo'burg CBD to outlying leafy suburbs.
Occasionally the pickup poles would jump the wire or gap, necessitating the grumpy conductor, getting out the long pole, stored underneath the bus, and using a combination of dexterity and fishing skills, reattach the offending pole, so that my journey to school or wherever could continue.
Trolley busses were operated by the municipality and disappeared from the roads in the early 80's as more efficient diesel busses took over.
You never forget that metallic hum & swish of the next trolley bus heading your way.
Living in Edinburgh for quite some time, I've watched our 'tram' saga roll out, which has been a comedy of errors, second to none and will take many decades of paying them off.
Due to the torque characteristics of electric traction motors, these are highly suitable in hilly terrains such as Nottingham or Sheffield. Maximum torque at zero rpm and no vast local fumes that a fully loaded internal combustion engine creates in the same situation.
PS: I rode on the last LT trolley bus for 20m as it pulled away from Wimbledon Town Hall; a policeman was just in front of me on the boarding platform - I had no choice other than get off - he was bigger than me !!
The last UK trolleybus system to close was in the very hilly town of Bradford where they were ideal. it closed on 26th March 1972. Just over a year later in October 1973 began the first oil crisis when crude oil shot up from $3 to $12 per barrel which obviously made diesel buses a lot dearer to operate. There was a second oil crisis in 1979 (oil rose from an average $18.85 to $39.50 per barrel). If the oil price had shot up say 10 years earlier perhaps some trolleybus systems might have survived as they ran on electricity produced from UK mined coal.
In Bolton in the North West we used to have a large tram network that had no maintenance during world war II for obvious reasons, however this meant afterward half the line was unusable so they went to trolleybuses, then to normal buses. Therefore we have no trams and everyone hates the public transport we have now. Yet if you go to the next town over that is part of the Manchester metrolink tram service, public transport is well liked there.
Bolton should Bury the hatchet and embrace the tramway.
Bury also has the East Lancashire Railway but that's not what you have in mind.
@@thomasburke2683 they wants trams it would just cost hundreds of millions to reinstate them.
Not sure a steam train is exactly the kind of everyday cheap public transport people are looking for to be honest.
Thats why the hotel past Waters Meeting Road is called the Tramway Hotel! And also why that road is so wide...We really need the Metrolink here in bolton it would help so much for transport connections and footfall to a place in steep decline...
I'm not sure that extending Metrolink to Bolton would change local attitudes towards public transport; people might like the trams but they'd still moan like heck about the buses, which would remain the primary public transport for Bolton district just as they are for Bury district.
Mind you, you have the delights of Diamond Buses there at the moment, who I believe are currently managing to make First look good, but I'm not sure that the upcoming change to TfGM franchise buses operated by GoAhead (Go North West) will make much difference as the major problem is a sheer lack of bus drivers. If bus drivers were paid a decent salary and not treated like scum by their employers (and, unfortunately, by a lot of their customers) then maybe more people would be willing to do the job.
@@atraindriver trams will relieve some pressure on the buses making them better along with the fact that trams will be well liked. Also if the network was as extensive as it used to be would make a bus a bit redundant.
I clearly remember the trolleybuses in Bournemouth, They were yellow like custard. I havent thought of that in 50 years!
Current Trolleybuses can travel tens of miles off of wire and recharge the batteries while moving meaning that a transport service doesn't have to electrify the entire line to provide service without local fumes. My hometown still has the long-running network and bought the new buses in the last decade. They've got distinct advantages over battery-electric buses in range, at the cost of maintaining the wires.
Doncaster trolleybuses ceased in 1963, when I was still a lad living in Sheffield. When I came here in 1975 though, some Daimler CVG6s and Leyland Titan PD2s with Roe trolley bus bodies were still around.
I also remember a few trolley bus journeys in Rotherham, the last one being a couple of weeks before abandonment in 1965.
Going on holiday to Bournemouth in the mid 1960s gave an opportunity to ride on their system, (I liked the turntable at Christchurch), but I was more interested in the Hants & Dorset Lodekkas there.
The trolleybus system in Wellington (NZ) operated until just a few years ago.
Sad to hear the Wellington trolleybuses have gone, I remember them from my visits there many years ago and thought they would have been retained.
@@iankemp1131 Politics, I believe though my rooting around for more info hasn't so far revealed much.
Much of my misspent youth involved travel on trolleybuses 623 and 649 in the Tottenham area.
I live near San Francisco, who never got rid of most of their trolleybus routes. In fact the only thing that has changed since I was a kid is most of the busses now have "clean air vehicle" stickers on them!
I just about remember travelling on a trolly in 1962 when I was five and we lived in Woodgreen in N. London. Very comfortable and smooth with a powerfull hum from the motor as the vehicle accelerated. Buses tended to be noisy and a bit rough.
Travelling round eastern Europe I was impressed by this relatively simple and potentially green technology. A massive improvement to some streets in London that smell of bus diesel. As a life long Doctor Who fan my highlight was of course the TARDIS at 0:38 😯
On the last day of London trolleybus operation the Diddler (No 1 though there was some doubt as to whether it really was No 1) was brought out of retirement at the Clapham Museum as Jago suggests. Local notables were conveyed from Fulwell to Kingston in the middle of the afternoon. Sadly I was in school nearby that day so I missed it. On arrival at Kingston it was towed back to Clapham. czcams.com/video/0-9IjiEvxmA/video.html is a record of the event.
The actual last trolleybus was on the 604 route from Wimbledon to Hampton Court and thence to Fulwell. Scheduled to arrive at around midnight it was over an hour late as the streets were blocked by well over 1000 people who had come to witness the event. The last bus was packed (I'm guessing that, theoretically it was supposed to have been empty) and, as it finally drew into the forecourt of the depot, every lightbulb was stolen - perhaps a few are still on somebody's mantlepiece. Of course since it all happened in the early hours of the next morning, this time I wasn't in school.
Hi Dik, I expect to see a light bulb next time we meet! 😜
I share your happy Fulwell memories! Jago implies that the Diddler accompanied the last trolleybus; not so, it was only run in the afternoon, as you say.
I lived very close to Fulwell Depot and stayed up late to witness the last trolleybus on its approach to the Depot. The bus was indeed packed but I managed a short ride (hanging on the outside!), although I didn't get any bulb or other souvenir, alas.
There were various ways that certain local boys could have fun by encouraging the trolley to de-wire - particularly at the road junction before the 'Nelson' pub where the 601 and 667 routes separated. The conductor had to change the spring-loaded points located at the previous stop for a 601 - so if someone else had changed them unobserved when a 667 was running, it would carry straight on while the trolley poles tried to go left - and out would come the long bamboo pole.
One of the things my mum would reminisce about most growing up in Barnet was riding trolleybuses, they used to stop outside the shop she lived above opposite the tube station. Mum would regularly help Maisie the clippie weed out all the people trying to avoid paying their fares she knew by the discarded tickets they attempted to use that they were for journeys longer than they were taking. On Fridays she'd go to the Finchley depot, as a reward the drivers would give her mint humbugs or a squashed fly biscuit for helping. As very an occasional treat Maisie the clippie would take her to the Aldenham works where they serviced buses and trolleys
My late nan worked on the Trolley busses during and around the war. Many stories she told. Bring them back
Nottingham City Transport used trolleybuses well into the 60s. I was a regular user of them. From the suburbs of Wollaton Park to the City Centre it was the way to go. And so inexpensive too! Occasionally the poles that connected with the overhead wires would come off, but the bus conductor would simply drag out a long pole with a hook on the end to re attach them. In frosty weather the first buses of the day gave a spectacular display of sparks as they burned off the frost from the wires. Then they were replaced by motor buses, as fuel was cheap back then. Today Nottingham transport has gone back to using trams. Though I don't live there any more, I still fondly remember the old trolleybus!
I'm a tad too young to recall the trolleybuses running, but I do recall seeing the overhead wires still in place along Arkwright Street as late as 1968.
En route to live back in England in 2002 (for what turned out to be four and a half years), we stopped over in Vancouver. Guess what they had running along outside our hotel as part of what seemed to be a thriving inner city service? Single deck trolley buses! They seemed as normal a phenomenon as Melbourne's trams (we're back in Oz now), so presumably they're still running around in this new super-eco-aware era. I sincerely hope so, it was mesmeric and very nostalgic to see them swing gracefully in and out of their stop at the adjacent crossroads and then flow sinuously around the corner. Took me right back to West Croydon bus station back in the day..
I live in Vancouver and our trolley buses are definitely still going strong! I think there would be massive outcry if they ever wanted to get rid of them. Translink is also expanding into a fleet of battery electric buses, but that's to replace diesel buses on routes that don't have overhead wires, not replace the trolleys, thankfully.
@@jools1978 I took a trolley bus along East Hastings Street in Vancouver a few years ago. That was an eye opener…
Here in Toronto we had trolleybuses until 1993. One interesting thing about them is how they ran on the same voltage as the streetcars and at a trolleybus and streetcar route intersection, the buses would run on one of its own wires and the streetcar wire until the routes diverged and then the buse would go back to its own two-wire system. I asked a TTC guy why the system was abandoned and he told me that the TTC could only support so many kinds of transit technology. You can still see the poles for it here and there. The trolleybus shed was demolished about 20 years ago and is now a storage yeard for gravel.
When I first visited in 2013, I was thrilled to see the streetcars my parents had always talked about, and indeed travelled on, were still there. I'd been too young when we left to remember anything of Canada.
@@KarenWatsonUK The streetcars you rode have all been replaced with Bombardier Flexity units. Two new lines are under construction but will run as LRT lines.
@@lawrencelewis2592 Thanks for the update!
My Dad told me that when trolley buses first ran he took his first ride. He explained that due to the powerful acceleration his arm was almost pulled out of its socket !
Very interesting video Jago. The last trolleybus in London service was 1521 (FXH 521) Chassis less Metro-Cammell vehicle of 1940. Now preserved at The East Anglian Transport Museum. There was a plan to reintroduce Trolleybuses to the old Uxbridge road route to Shepherds Bush, but local Politian's were against any form of electric traction being used on the Uxbridge Road.
My father drove trolley buses, although not in London, and I remember him going off to work in the winter wearing many layers of clothing and big leather flying gauntlets as there was no heating in the driver's cab.
Busses in london had no heaters right up to the RMs. On the RT the transmission protruded into the lower deck and could get hot, good to warm your feet on.
Think of the poor tram driver, standing up with a rudemenstory windscreen. At least in a trollleybus or motor bus you got a seat
Travelled all over London collecting bus numbers in the late Fifties. The hotspots for trolleybuses were Stratford Broadway, Gardeners Corner Aldgate, Kings Cross and best of all, Nags Head Junction Holloway where hundreds could be seen in the course of a day. The final batch, the Q1 class operating in west/south-west London were superb vehicles, so much more pleasant to travel in than most diesel buses in service today.
My 90 year old father remembers trolleybuses being known as “silent killers” during the war, as during blackouts they were difficult to see or hear.
Whilst being slightly too young to remember the London ones I have been fortunate enough to visit San Francisco on many occasions and they have a most excellent Trolleybus network which was until fairly recently run mostly by the very quirky (and fast) Skoda ETI vehicles which were most agreeable imho. The fleet has been renewed and although it is now possibly slightly more mundane from an enthusiast point of view it remains a very efficient network covering some particularly demanding terrain with heavy loadings.
My mother worked in Warshaws builders merchants in Old Street during the war and mentioned the trolley buses. The upper story windows were protected by a mesh screen because the catenary pickup arms often became detached on the corner and hit the windows.
Remember as a bus-spotting kid, visiting Colindale where the trolleys were dismantled. Grabbed myself lots of bits (!) some of which, sadly, I've still got.
The only trams I've been on were Blackpool and at Crich museum. Boneshakers and so noisy. Trolleybuses were great, super smooth and quiet. Great video thanks.
I went to Zurich once and they have a fantastic tram and trolleybus network, I wish we had the same in some British cities…
Great video.
You can ride on a Trolley bus at the East Anglia transport museum at Carlton Colville, I went there a few years ago and it was a great day!
Very enjoyable thank you Jago. We had double decker trolley buses imported from the U.K. in both Sydney and Adelaide during my youth. On the City route Potts Point to Town Hall and a Suburban System Rockdale and Kogarah to Dolls Point and Ramsgate. They replaced both a former steam tram and electric tram system. The City service was suspended a few years after the war but the suburban lines ran for another decade. I remember them fondly and when living in Chiswick London I took one home I think from near Trafalgar Square in 1962. Thanks for the pleasant memories.
I can just remember trolleybuses around Hayes Middlesex, at the Grapes Junction in what must have been 1960, when conductors had to move the power lines around. I can also remember going to my aunt and unce in Barry and driving through Cardiff seeing trolleybuses there.
My town Hartlepool got it's trolley busses pretty early in the 1920's with them covering pretty much the whole town.
Running up till the 1950's. Sadly nothing remains apart from the streets they ran down even the depot they were stationed at was demolished and now a car park for the railway station.
I lived in North London and rember them very well. They used to cause a big traffic jam at the end of my rd which was near a major junction of Trolley buses turning left or going straight on. The corner quite often resulted in the trolleys coming off the overhead cable and the conductor / driver had to get out and use a long pole to put them back on. This could cause quite a hold up. It was not unusual to see between 6 an 12 trolley buses queued up as they cannot pass each other.
The overhead crossings outside Colindale (ex-Hendon) works were interesting to watch for dewirements.
It also meant that the poles had to be hung on poles and readily available - to anybody. Which, given the number of miscreants around these days, leads me to wonder if that would be at all possible today.
Sounds like North Finchley by the old Gaumont cinema, which itself was a tragic loss to the community. Also known as Tally-ho corner.
Kids used to pull the route change over lever, and if the driver did not notice the route indicator on the box, which was a small whit arrow, would drive straight on while the trolleys tried to turn left, ripping them off the traction wires, and potentially doing damage. I saw that happen. It was surprisingly noisy with the trolley poles wildly spinning , and fortunately no building windows within reach.
I just remember the trolley busses in Finchley. My father was a conductor for LT. The turning circle at East Finchley station was great watching them turn round.
I can remember, as a child, trolleybuses in Wembley, Middlesex. They shared the High Street with motorbuses. Wembley's Lyons Teashop restaurant was on the first floor of a building in the High Street and you could sit there next to the window on the same level as the upstairs deck of both motor and trolleybuses, smiling at the passengers. How's that for a piece of historical trivia?
I remember catching trolleybuses in Bratislava, Slovakia in my first overseas trip from Australia in 2005. I had never seen anything like it! Melbourne's tram network is flourishing, and I thoroughly enjoyed travelling on them during a recent visit.
I was born in 1957 and grew up in Hampton Hill (then still in Middlesex). I can remember the 667 trolleybus running from Hammersmith "Bdy" to Hampton Court and back. We used to catch it to go shopping in Twickenham. My main memory is how quiet they were. If not silent. They had replaced the trams on the same route, and were themselves replaced by the 267 and Routemasters.
Hampton Hill is still in Middlesex! Only the Middlesex County Council disappeared, by act of Parliament, not the Historic County.
@@CaseyJonesNumber1 Yes, I know that. Had I been born when I was due I would have have had "Hampton Court, Middlesex" on my birth certificate. As it is, I suffered the indignity of being born in Kingston Hospital.
@@webrarian mine says "Syon Park, Middlesex"! Not the ACTUAL Park 😄, but West Mid Hospital actually...
@@CaseyJonesNumber1 Mine wouldn't have been the ACTUAL palace, either, but the Bearsted Maternity Hospital. Complete with trolleybus stop right outside. As West Mid must have done as well?
@@webrarian yes, Trolleybus past the hospital - they ended just over a year after I arrived though.
Near where I grew up is the former Chicago, Aurora, & Elgin Railway, an electric interurban line connecting those cities. It ceased operation in 1957 and was later converted into one of the first rail-trails in the country, the Illinois Prairie Path. One day I was cycling along the Batavia Branch and just happened to look up. These former lines are often used as the right-of-way for electric power lines, and indeed the CA&E was part of the electric empire of Samuel Insull, who also owned the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee, the Chicago South Shore & South Bend, and Commonwealth Edison electric utility. He's a Londoner who came to Chicago, an inverted Charles Yerkes. But anyways, I look up, and on one of these poles, there is a suspender for a trolley wire. Still there after the rails were taken up the year my father was born.
At 69 years old, I can still remember waiting to get on the trolley bus whilst the female conductor switched the pickup arms from one set of overhead cables to another set to continue on another route. Billet Road Walthamstow E17. I also remember riding on a steam train from St James Street station near High Street Market Walthamstow.
As a kid i used to love it in winter when my mum would take me shopping to Beresford square market in Woolwich. As the trams and trolleys weaved through the crowds, showers of sparks and blue flashes used to light up the sky.
Also, the bus stop beside the arsenal gates was one of the biggest in the country.
I remember the Bradford trollies very well resplendent in their blue livery. They were well suited to Bradford which is in a basin. You can't leave the city without going up a hill so an obvious choice over trams which couldn't cope with many of the gradients
And probably better than diesel buses as well. No surprise then that Bradford had the distinction of being Britain's last trolleybus network, lasting till 1972.
Great video Jago. I recall the Bournemouth trolley buses. They were so much quieter and smoother riding than buses. The livery was yellow and when the council sold the network (in the 80s I recall), they wrote into the tender document that the successful bidder had to continue with the same livery. Maybe yellow was to reflect the sandy beaches!
I remember my many friends from Bournemouth used to mention the yellow buses, and even sang their jingle from time to time.
Trolleybuses are the ideal form of public transport in cities and large towns. They are electric, so have all the now-accepted advantages over diesel. They are not reliant on the huge disadvantages of battery storage on the vehicle, but can use smaller batteries as an adjunct to enable them to roam off the main wired routes, charging up when under the wires, so not requiring expensive and extensive charging points needed by pure battery buses. They wouldn't need such huge expenditure on replacement batteries every five years or so, either, or entail as great a recycling cost. They can cope with much steeper gradients than trams, and don't need reserved track or elaborate traffic control measures. They accelerate far better than diesel buses, and don't drain batteries by doing so. They have regenerative braking, so a trolleybus going down a hill powers one going up. They are truly wonderful things, used still in other countries, and ought to be brought back tomorrow.
You missed out the fact that trolleybuses were doomed by London Transport by merging the Central Buses department with the Tram & Trolleybus department. The bus people were in charge of it, and wanted electric traction out. Standardization was the management fad at the time, and those in charge were all bus people. There was even a trolleybus version of the Routemaster on the drawing board, but they soon ripped those up.
I grew up with trolley type busses in the US. We simply called them busses, it was all there were. There may have been diesel busses in areas of the city ( Seattle) with high hills, but the routes I rode were all electric. I remember the sound the wires made when the bus was getting near. In my memory they ran until the early 70s in my inner city neighborhood.
I remember riding in a trolley bus from Barking to East Ham once or twice. Other than that, it was always RTs.
And I remember once seeing the driver or conductor taking a pole that was carried on the outside and replacing the trolley poles which had come off the overhead wires.
Trams & Buses have played their part in my life. My maternal Grandmother (and my Mum of course) lived in Bowles Road off Old Kent Road and this had a tram depot in it which changed to buses during their lifetime. The Bus (tram) depot was totally destroyed in the blitz, unfortunately so was my Mum's house! As you've guessed my Mum and family survived without a scratch but lost everything. I have photos of the destroyed Bus garage.
My maternal Grandfather drove buses post WW1 after driving Old Bill Bus ambulances in France. My wife's Father & Grandfather worked on London Buses.
I can remember trolley buses in Portsmouth, running in the late 1940s, whilst Southampton still used trams. One advantage of the trolley was that it was very quiet and, of course, could pull into the side of the road to pick up/drop off the passengers . A very interesting film. Thank you.
A very good summary of the life and death of the London trolleybus Jago. Of course the newest ones were shipped overseas for further use. We had the second largest trolleybus system in Belfast and it was fun trying to catch up with them on my push bike going up and down the hills. Once London scrapped there system it became uneconomic for suppliers of equipment to carry on for the remaining municipal systems such as Bournemouth. Of course other countries have continued to use them and you can enjoy a ride on them in San Francisco for example.
Been living near Fulwell depot for over 25 years and I never knew it was the site of the first and last trolleybuses. To be fair I hadn't really given trolleybuses much in the way of thought in my life but you'd think there'd be a little sign or plaque or something.
I believe there's local (fulwell) trolley bus footage on CZcams.
Found it czcams.com/video/iySshjjujog/video.html
A lot of people refuse to recognise that sometimes solutions from the past are also solutions of the future.
Trollybuses are that future.
Experienced trolley buses on a trip to Romania in 1990, they worked pretty well and didn't stink of diesel fumes and have headache inducing engine vibrations. Really quite nice. From time to time a bump in the road would dislodge the cable contacts in a shower of sparks and need the driver to walk round with a pole to put it back.
Shortly after the trams were replaced by trolleybuses, a woman was on her way back from the beer shop with her usual jug of ale. She waited patiently on the street corner for the tram to pass as usual, however trams had now been replaced with trolleybuses and, as it passed closer cutting the off the corner, she was left with a look of apprehension and just the jug handle in her hand.
Story told by my grandfather but I wonder how many times this occurred.
I was wondering if you were going to say the conductor had nabbed it :)
I never knew that pole was there and I started my career working for 4 years in the building behind what is now the Enterprise van place so I must have passed that thing a good few hundred times.
Oddly enough, I’m currently working for London Trams.
I wonder how long the pole will last now that demolition of the buildings behind it has begun?
I wonder if a pole can be given listed status?!
@@davidf2281 yes it can - I've photographed listed stink pipes and bollards for Wikipedia. However it would need to meet the listing criteria.
Two items-1)In the New York area,the only operations of trolleybuses was in Brooklyn,and it was a rather extensive network! 2) Again in the US,trolley retrievers were used,and there were two ropes attached to the trolleypoles,which made it quite convenient for the conductors of the buses! One long time operator of trolleybuses is Dayton,Ohio! Those services are now,about 100 years old,and now,use hybrids,i.e,Diesel-Electric/Electric which is actually close to 150 year old technology! History repeats,and politicians don't read history! Thanks Jago,a most interesting sidelight on London,as it once was!! Thank you 😇!
The Dayton System doesn't use Diesel-Electric, but instead "Battery-Wire" hybrids. The batteries have enough juice to drive the bus. at speed for something like 24-30 miles, and can be recharged while the bus is in motion under-wire.
Until I was about 5 or 6 we lived in North London in Winchmore Hill. This was on the trolleybus route out to (from memory) Enfield and (as my dad took the family's only car to work) my mother and us kids were always on Trolleybusses to go shopping at larger shopping centres such as Palmers Green or Wood Green which were larger than our local one, or on visits to relatives who lived closer into the middle of London.
I can still clearly remember some of the characteristics of the Trolleybusses. The quiet, smooth ride, the fantastic (as it seemed to me then) acceleration rate, far greater than I ever experienced in my dad's car! But I also remember there were multiple times when the overhead pickup wires "jumped" off the overhead wires and the bus stopped. Then, the crew had to get out very long wooden poles with a Y shaped hook on the end; these lived in a compartment that ran the length of the bus under the seating area. and the crew used the poles to reattach whichever of the pickups had jumped off the overhead wires. It was like a gigantic version of a fairground game!
I can also remember multiple times when the bus halted at a bus stop and would not start again. When that happened, we were all ushered off the bus and told to "wait for the next one" and the crew had to get out the poles and detach the failed bus's pickups from the overhead wires (presumably to prevent it shorting out a section of overhead wire which would stop "the next one" ever reaching us! ). In such an event, the conductor would detach one of the long sideways seat cushions from a failed trolleybus and stand it on the road behind, propped up against the back of the bus - even if it was raining!
I do remember my elders being pretty scathing about the trolleybusses reliability - but I also remember them lamenting them being replaced - so I suppose there was affection for them too!
Not necessarily affection, perhaps just a fear of change and the unknown.
It's such a shame we got rid of our tram networks across the country, espcially with them being a great solution to traffic issues, being sustainable and much more popular than other forms of transport.
The Leeds system only lasted between 1911 & 1928 on 3 routes & was not very successful. There was plans to bring them back as the "NGT" scheme in the early 2000's, but it never happened.
The Bradford system lasted a lot longer, opening 4 days after the Leeds one and was the last operated system in the UK, closing in 1972.
There was also a 1980s plan for a Leeds & Bradford trolleybus network, on different routes to the NGT proposal
I understand one benefit for the Bradford system was that the trolleybuses were better at hills than motor buses, and Bradford has lots of hills.
👓 Boy from Brum
Searched all through these comments and have not found any mention of trolleybuses in Birmingham. The first ones replaced the short Nechells tram route in the 1920s and the only other route to be opened, again replacing trams was along the Coventry Road. Trams originally ran to Yardley but when converted the route was extended to Sheldon, not far from what became Birmingham International Airport. The main fleet were of six wheel formation but some additional four wheelers were subsequently added. The Nechells route was closed soon after the beginning of WW2 due to operational difficulties but Coventry Road lasted until 1952, when the fleet needed complete replacement and the trolleybuses joined in the tram scrapping exercise. I well remember travelling on them on occasions with my father and the the most remarkable thing was the rate of acceleration when leaving stops. One needed to hang on tight or get to a seat pretty swiftly! I also recognise the comments about the sizzling sound from the overhead wires when a bus was coming.
Yes, my mum took us on the Outer Circle bus to the Swan, Yardley, and then on the trolley bus to Sheldon, finally walking to Elmdon (now BHX) for the 1948? Kings Cup Air race - magic!
As a child in the fifties I lived in Leytonstone, a suburb of London. I used 5o accompany my mother to visit my paternal grandparents who lived in Plumstead, South East London. We would alight the 661 trolleybus in Leytonstone High Road and travel to the Woolwich
Free Ferry via Stratford Broadway. Quite often the trolley would become detached from the overhead cables causing the conductor to dismount the bus and withdraw a pole from underneath the vehicle and reattach the trolleys to the cables. After crossing the Thames to South Woolwich we would continue our journey to my grandparents house on the really ‘old fashioned’ tram.
I just remember trolleybuses from early childhood, although my grandmother didn't live in a part of London where they ran. We did, however, see them when going out of town. They really ought to bring them back - while they do have their limitations, they are far and away the least polluting kind of vehicle. After all, the batteries required to run an electric or hybrid bus or car are themselves very polluting
We had Trolleybuses in Maidstone until February, 2967 run by Maidstone And District and a sister company Hastings And District in Hastings.
Remember riding on them as a child and the huge roundabout at the top of Nottingham Avenue was the turning circle.
1967 typo error!
My dad was a conductor on Maidstone's trolleys until they finished. I got to ride on one in the final procession from the town hall to the depot.
@@nickmendes5458 Nice to hear that.
Maidstone Corporation ran the trollys in Maidstone, not M and D. I used to catch the Loose or Park Wood trolly from the town centre, up Stone St. to Maidstone Grammar School during my first year there. The school Transport Society had a special trip when they were replaced and we covered every last metre of the network.
@@richardthomasmillican3980 Ok fair enough I may have made a mistake but there were definitely trolley buses in Hastings which looked similar as I have seen a video which says trolley buses in Maidstone but in one section you can clearly see it is Hastings and not Maidstone.
Thanks for the correction.
Just a few sketchy memories of trolley buses being used in Barking, Essex. The one thing that sticks in my mind is the conductor having to use a long wooden pole to reconnect the bus to the overhead lines whenever they become detached