Gregory Bateson, Ecology of Mind and Double Binds
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- čas přidán 30. 11. 2020
- Two excerpts from the 2012 American Society for Cybernetics. One by Nora Bateson on the Ecology of Ideas and the other one man's story about his experience with a Double Bind.
good idea as a brief outline , want more on ecology though
Okay, so there are people that are 'double-binders'?! Interesting. Good story, thanks so much, Jude.
You want one experimental synthetic mRNA nano-machine lipid "vaccine" or you want to murder grandma?
It looks like this is a situation where it is a person who USES double-binds.
This seems to often be people with cluster B personality disorders (if they are merely doing it to satisfy a need / urge / desire ), to my knowledge a psychological layman.
If I had to make a guess, we are talking about some kind of therapist who would use double-binds on the client, perhaps to gain "narcissistic supply" (that's just what it sounds like based on the very limited context here).
Others use double-binds for manipulative control over a situation, to influence outcomes rather than to extract psychological energy (e.g. Trump debating Jeb Bush and other in 2016 in Republican presidential primaries)
DJT to Jeb said something like: "Are you going to apologize? No, of course you're not going to apologize."
Jeb loses either way.
1. If he apologizes, he admits he was doing something wrong / loses his frame of himself having any moral high-ground
2. If he refuses to apologize, he loses persuasive power by making Trump look correct.
That was the first time I realized (love him or hate him) how he was able to influence outcomes via his mastery over word.
PREAMBLE: Looking for a passageway. Still no idea nor interest in what the Reply Comment paper subject quote reference at 2:45 [0] refers to other than a label for that Time Stamp...
Thanks!
I keep lightly tapping the figurative bricks of the proverbial wall with the side of my hand looking for a hollow to proceed thru. Bang bang bong...and I find a Hollow Brick [~GG], a hole, a cut that is no longer indirect but takes me directly into the subject and resonates.
I don't know why it resonates specifically but I know I'm ready. There is also a certain felt sense of tolerating uncertainty and from there I go in.
I start looking hearing before and from [0] 2:45 time stamp and scrub it as a rabbit hole: The paper quote reference does nothing for me. I proceed up to and beyond [I] 4:18 and past [III] 5:08 time stamps.
It comes to me that from [III] I can see something referring to [I] and that **the person who is really stuck and trapped by The Dbl Bind is the Doc [II] not the client **
At this point the summary nutshell is the dbl asterisks around the above sentence that manifests into focus. I.E. the doc's pay grade and pgmming has a ceiling whereas the client's capacity dbled up w Bateson is outside that box. Should the Bateson Conversation include how to help the Doc?
How will the Doc leave the Dbl Bind he is seemingly controlled by? The Implication would seem to be that by the client removing himself The Doc's Dbl Bind is no longer triggered until the next client.
E.g. Perhaps The Doc's Projection Identifications of attributing to the client what the doc is doing and or an Induced Conversation roping the client into the doc's pantomime unwillingly. Client is likely the Targetted Scapegoat paying for the Doc's Targetting Svcs. Otherwise it's really not the Client who is trapped.
And I recognize the reply commenter is an implicit partner who has shown me what I was not referring to.
Thanks Again!
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Comment Edit 2:45 Time Stamp s/b Looking From (III) 5:08 to (I) 4:18 to arrive at the (II) dbl asterisks:
Edit: Yet an observer of The In the "story" where The Doc who is seemingly most the one thoroughly captured by the system-construct-definition.
A pgming construct that owns and that observedly--per the narration--that dictates like a preset pgm with a defined ceiling payscale. It seemingly runs the Doc who acts like a vessel with very limited options and responses unlike the client having a conversation w Bateson and naming the alledged only signal in the room that could be characterized as a sticky pink elephant...
Perhaps the focus of the "story" switcheroo is the Doc, not neccessarily the client's escape...
One wonders if the client and Bateson recognize that the progamming construct is not restricted to escaping the **co-opting pgm bind on the table that the Doc at the root believes accepts and acts out as Who (he) Doc IS**: The Doc serves it. It does not serve him. The client and Bateson might not have the inclination nor time in this clip of in-life filming to Carryforward Implicits of the Dbl Asterisks on the table...
~ Credit Given [CG] to Jude Lombardi et al
~ [CG] Paul Hedderman ZenBitchSlap for giving the satsang panoramic capacity to put a finger on a nutshell of works here including the insight signals of failed systems
~ Wo falling into failed system identifications--i.e. mistaking complex--should not be working but do--for merely complicated (not self emergent). ~ [CG] Dave Snowden Ref: Cynefin
~ [CG] NadaLou p Gene Gendlin [GG] Creating With Creators, Focusing, Thinking at The Edge: New Theory Building Strands [A1 Thru C1]
~~ Something that insists that isn't here yet. [C1] ~GG
Looking back from here and there to:
~~ A more right way: anyhow connected. [A1] ~GG
To see without making it up:
~~ Something that's not ordinarily associated With good. [B1] ~GG
~~ Ref: A Reprise Of Reverse Engineering (III) to (I) To See (II)s ~GG
Paraphrasing at-lasting streaming downloads...
‘Towards a Theory of Schizophrenia’….reference behind why this time mark exists.