Fly Better - Z Extension Omni Throttle
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- čas přidán 13. 03. 2023
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#noobifier #vkb #virpil #joystick - Hry
Never skip HOSAS day. Thanks for the great content.
I use the Virpil Z extension with my WarBrd Base. Works great. I would like to get the CM3 Base with the clutch but it is a bit too expensive for me to replace a perfectly fine working gimbal just to get the clutch.
I recently saw a video which helps with centering the stick. Setup 3 virtual Buttons for your y axis in the VPC configuration tool. 1 for 0 to 49% input, 1 for 50% (dead center) and one for 51 to 100% input. And now add color effects to the LED depending on which Button is "pressed". I used blue for 51 to 100% (forward), green for 50% (center position) and for 0 to 49% (backward). Now you can see if your stick is centered and you don't need to use a deadzone. Just push or pull the stick depending on the color of the LED.
I would like to claim this as my idea but i got it from @Afterimage Flight
Lock for his channel if you want to see his detailed setup guide for the LED colors. He also build a really great Star Citizen simpit.
I would like to share idea with you some time in the future. Drop me a line some time.
@@TheUpintilldawn sure, share away. If i can i am a glad to assist in any way possible.
Hey there, a question if I may?
I am currently running two Alpha Primes on WarBRDs but even with the lighter springs, I dislike having to push the stick so hard to strafe forward (especially since my off-hand is chipped due to an injury) and thus I use the X and Y axis for vertical and lateral strafe and have thrust forward/back bound to the brake levers; this leaves me with the right z-axis totally unused and that doesn't feel correct. Does the WarBRD hold the z-extension well, should I get the cosmo cams with it and is there a possibility to dry-clutch that base?
Okay, that was more than one question, but any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance and fly safe!
Or... just leave the spring in and use cruise control. Works perfectly for me.
One thing I noticed from using my z bend is it makes the flight more intuitive. I have my z strafe on the twist axis of the throttle stick. With them vertical it felt kinda arbitrary which way to twist to strafe up. With the z bend it makes it very intuitive to rotate up to strafe up. When I first got my dual stick I wanted to try 3D printing a throttle to mount to the CM2 I have. With the z bend I don’t have to fuss with it.
i feckin love my omnithrottle because i dont have pedals, or the space to make pedals work so i have to use all 6 axis on my twin sticks to make 6dof work. and my stupid brain just does not do well with left/right twist for up/down movement, just laying the left stick on its side allowed me to go from consciously thinking about that part of my control scheme every time i used it to it being basically instinctive. I'm not a "better" pilot by any means, at least as far as skill goes, but it definitely aided reaction times
Interesting and informative video.
I also run dual Virpil Constellation Alpha Primes and a Z Extension on the left stick, but I also have the Virpil CM3 Throttle on a mount beside the left stick, as well as Rudder Pedals. For 6DOF, I use the dual sticks for dogfighting and I use the throttle and pedals for non-combat ships (haulers and racers). The new CM3 base’s drag clutch is a useful feature but doesn’t appeal to me, and the throttle feels more natural, especially with the detents. Also, the throttle has tons of extra buttons, switches, HATs, and mode switches, which are more useful.
The Z-extension was a game changer when installed. Changed the virpils into an intuitive beast.
I just ordered the left alpha prime, cm3 base, Z extension and desk mounts for it all yesterday. Going to try HOSAM, beyond excited, and should elevate flying in Star Citizen!!! Glad to hear the Z was a good choice!
I use the VKB Gunfighters with their omni throttle adapter and love it, total game play changer. It makes flight ergonomics comfortable for me and flight is 1:1 movement intuitive in 0g flight. Left stick is all axis translations/strafes and right is axis rotations like a plane except I put roll on twist and Yaw on side movement and ditched pedals. It matches 1:1 what's happening on screen.
Do you use an adapter on both controllers?
How do you control that super important up/down axis?
@@TraumglanzWith the z extension the twist axis turns up and down instead of left/right so you're twisting the stick up or down which makes it is highly intuitive to bind to vertical strafe.
Thanks for following up. I hadn’t considered using one of the sticks as a throttle. I like that idea because it enables you to adjust and tune your controllers to the ships/vehicles you are flying (especially if you interact with multiple vehicles in one gameplay).
Its super ergonomic and super functionality
I've been waiting for your follow up review since you first told us about the Z axis... BUT...
I purchased one about 10 minutes after seeing that video.
A few weeks later it arrived and I've never taken it off my left VIRPIL since.
I LOVE IT!
I have vkbs and have them ALMOST set up the exact way, except for keeping to your old throttle setup, and keeping the right stick & pedals the same as regular flight sims. The reason is I don't have the room for a dedicated throttle in my setup, so I use my left stick as a throttle and don't use the x axis or twist on it in DCS, the other reason for the throttle setup is that without some type of cam or detent, neutral is not intuitive on the VKB's due to how the stick feels like it cams over very early on the negative y-axis.
Love these little videos, thanks Noob
I went z-extension on both sticks because I've wanted that setup since I saw Anakin's podracing controls in Phantom Menace in theaters
@ixianhawkins1115 *Angled twin sticks are also used iRL, on state-of-the-art tugs in harbors.* Two legacy WarBRD Bases and Constellation DELTA grips on Z-Extensions would approach real-life tug controls in ship simulation.
Is there a right hand model or does the extension work for both left and right sticks
I think it's pretty awesome that they are modifiable like this. Thank you for the info, N00b!
Great vid... Looking for my first dual stick set up. Like the idea of the "Z" extension.
I so want to get in to this so im saving for the chair to put the rest of the things on from monster tech. Really looking forward to figuring it all out the rest of this year! :D
Honestly the T1600 Throttle, with the analog stick at the index finger, makes a really good throttle. I have upgraded mine with polymer bearings and magnet detents at the 50% mark, so I get full use of the throttle for forward/back, then the analog stick gets used for strafe up/down, and left/right. It's not as fine as a joystick, but it does the trick. I would love a space joystick with analog sticks at either both index finger positions, or thumb positions for complete tracking. Turtle Beach got so close with their mouse track button, but I went with Evo gladiators. I like to keep all linear axis on my left hand, and all rotational axis on my right hand.
Thanks for the deeper dive so to speak. Understand how you use it better.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the support.
i use warbirds for both sticks. Left y i also use as throttle. y and x use springs. But thanks to this it gives me ideas for my Virpil Throttle use. i currently own left and right virpils, with all 3 panels, virpil m50 throttle plus pedals. My main problem... Trying to remember what button does what.. lol. I love duel stick flying in Star Citizen. See you all in the Verse.
I work/play on a L shaped desk. Since my gaming is on my "right" side... the z-ext doesnt work so well because it can hit the "left-side" of my desk. Something very contextual but relevant to me. But, I do use the z-axis on my LH stick and it feels more natural to keep the whole grip vertical since it matches the relation to the roll/z-axis setup.
I have left and right Gladiator EVO Omni throttles, and ergonomically, for me, they are so much more comfortable. I find the twist on standard upright joysticks to be painful after a while, but with these that totally goes away.
Hey, I am that discord member! I am glad for the new content, I asked in discord for clarification but am asking here too for more visibility and permanence. You missed one part that I am super curious about and that was about using Z extension in both hands simultaneously, is it good that way? I dont see that setup ever and I wonder why.
It is the setup I run since I got my alpha prime cm3. I plan to put back avia hard center on the left Y, because even with dead zone, it lacks the tactile feel of a quality throttle.
Not in the market for sticks but curious about the Z extension so video was interesting - cheers
When you do a full review of the WarBRD-D, please test out the Z extension with it. I am leaning toward buying a WarBRD-D and left Alpha Prime with the Z extension later in the year. I would love to know what to expect. :)
I use the Z-extension for my strafing stick but not my regular flight stick. i love this setup.
Same.
@Karl I'm used to the ergonomics of helicopters. Ideal set-up therefore for VirPil: Two MongoosT-50CM3 Bases, one MongoosT-50CM2 grip on a 200mm Extension (cyclic), one Constellation ALPHA PRIME-L on a Z-Extension (collective / strafe thrusters), one ACE Interceptor pedal set, one SharKa-50 Engine Quadrant, one Control Panel #2, one Control Panel #1.
"We've received your order details, but have not yet received your parcel ". Soon I will be trying the above. Thanks for the uploads.
How did you set a custom zero on the stick? was it through virpil software or in SC itself?
Someday I’ll have these.
What is your opinion about using dual NXT omni throttle? Like both left and right NXT being omni throttle.
I really like galaxy quest. Is it feasible to use 2 throttles to fly in games like star citizen (would appreciate knowing before buying a throttle)?
So to achieve that you removed Y spring, you used light spring in X, and you use what cam ? Cosmosim no center ?
Hm, setting a deadzone for the throttle axis... Need to keep that in mind when I can actually play 3.18. (I had received the Virpil sticks in January, and other than a basic keybind setup, I didn't really play much)
Cant wait t get my omni's vkb. I ordered them like a month ago but parcelforce is screwing me over atm haha
I just installed the Z-on my strafe stick (left) and it feels much better in star citizen, since I switched to having roll on the pedals and up/down strafe on the left twist axis----as for ppl who want cruise control for relaxed space flying: just switch to decoupled! no need to remove the spring :)
I have the ace pedals with rudder and toe pedals. You find the precision good enough for the pedals?
Nice watch!
It’s my daily.
+BrianMP5T *Thanks for a demo on **_one_** way to execute a VIRPIL® Z-Extension™.* I predict a "collective thruster" as more useful for a universal simpit execution, would set the left gimbal accordingly low to port.
I like the omni on the nxt. Frustrating that there are no gimbal available right now.
I hope this question isn't too noobish: I just received my two alpha primes with warbrd bases and also the z-extender a few weeks ago.
Coming from a rather cheap HOTAS setup, I had the same idea to use the left stick as a throttle. But never looked into making it work that way.
Would it be enough to remove the spring for the Y-Axis from the base or is there more to it?
I use mine with the spring still in it and just use cruise control to maintain a speed
You didn't talk about the clearance issues. With a MonsterTech desk mount I want two virpil constellation Primes with the left having a Z extension, and I'd like to put a Elgato stream deck XL on the top of the MonsterTech mount on the left, with a mouse pad on the right desk mount.
Will I have clearance issues using these with the CM3 base and that's why you don't? People say the WarBRD has more movement, if the CM3 sags a bit already, wouldn't the CM3 be better? And be less prone to hit your desk due to the reduced degrees of movement?
If someone can answer this PLEASE PLEASE LIKE this so I get a notification. I don't get notifications to replies on my comments!
I’m in week 10 waiting for an Alpha Prime, CM3 base, and a couple of extensions. Apparently there’s a shortage of CM3’s at the moment.
I'm thinking about getting dual Omni throttles but not using them as throttle as I have pedals. Would you suggest having that or the typical straight config
It is comfortable for long playbsessions
This is super cool but kinda obsolete if you have high quality rudder pedals and your using the avenger_one layout. Pedals are your throttle. Left is JUST up down left right strafe. right is orientation, so where your nose is pointing and roll is on the twist axis. It's NOT intuitive. I won't claim that, but once it is learned it is very good, nay the best layout for controlling your distance to target, and fine tuning your aim (per pixel adjustments in a fighter are made with the left stick).
There's also a bonus to some pedals. You can install a hydraulic damper and then remove the spring so now you have a throttle that will stay in place! That might be really good for big ships but I don't do that for fighters since overshooting is such a danger. What use a medium spring with an exponential damping groove. Along with a little damping to smooth things out. It means that in order to reach top (stupid) speed I need to push VERY hard. Its how I managed to curb my jousting in combat. I'm very happy now. It's all second nature now. A full body experience once you add in the tobii eye tracker.
For reference I have the MFG flight pedals with heel on ground style pedals (helps lock in a speed despite being under constant pressure)
I never and wont use pedals
@TheNOOBIFIER1337 whao! First off, np :) but that's really interesting noob because I know a while back you used to have/use a lot of pedals, mfg, virpil. What changed? Don't need it? Not comfortable? Standing on?
@@pythonBlender7 pedals in planes, cars, helicopters yes…. Space, Nope
What about the Z or omni with an extended stick though?
Is the vipil setup with extension better overall for Star Citizen and DCS? Does the extension really help vs straight vertical (but with twist still )?
It depends on personal taste. I enjoy both and switch between them depending on where I am playing
All these awesome toys......Can't beat the Noob and his reviews. Not only do you get a great and fair opinion he also includes spends a lot of time on why he coose the settings he did and provides a little objective opinion on his own choices. Gotta love some WEEOO to help break up the week.
Apprecited
i still perfer the CM3 throttle + foot pedals, still get the same 6DOF, but i guess if you going to play standing up foot pedals is not a option
I bought 2 sticks and extensions because of your old video. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Brother you are always teaching me something new and interesting.
Hey noobifier, sorry if I missed it but are those the cm3 or warbrd-d bases?
I'm really digging that clutch on the left stick.
This video example it could work the same with either CM3 or WRBRD D
@@NOOBIFIER1337 thanks buddy, my warbrd-d's are in the mail. Can't wait to fix them up just like your setup there.
What do you mean by "neutralize the Y axis"? Linear cam? No cam? No spring?
I feel like I also want to add an extension for more 'range', but I can't decide if 50mm, 75mm, or 100mm would work best (or at all, with the Z-extension)...
Dead Stick
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I have the MongoosT-50CM3 with linear CosmoSim no center cams with the spring real loose and the dampener tight. Seems dead to me, but wasn't sure if that's what you meant...
As for the extension for more range, I guess I'll go 75mm and hope for the best. =P
Unrelated, but I like your Speedmaster Date. I had to sell mine several years ago and I miss it. :(
Sorry to hear that, yes, I have had it for a long time but decided 14 years ago to use it daily. I wore it deployed to Afghanistan, Kuwait… the thing has been with me through a lot. It’s like part of my body now and I would feel naked without it.
Well I can't find the dual z-extension video, there's this one saying you did one and there's the announcement vid where you said you'll release one when the second extension arrives. It's certainly not in the virpil playlist and I can't see it in the complete videos list (and of course yt's search is less than useless)
What was the question. What would you like to know?
If it sags left with weak springs, couldn't some weight be added to the top/right of the stick to balance it out?
Possible
I am considering them to be added on both my VKB Gladiators NXT.
I use the Z-axis / Twist to fly back/forward and the Y-axis to fly up/downward.
But I'm still unsure of the added value in the ergonomic department. 🤔
@@BlueMax717 I didn't plan to use them to make my left joystick like a throttle. I don't see the point either while playing SC with all the options available. 🤷🏼♂
I would like to use them more for ergonomic purpose.
Newb to this setup. So, taking off verticaly from a landing pad, would you twist the left handle to do that like a motorcycle throttle?
It depends on where your up down is bound. Most have it on either left or right twist. So you you would roll on or roll off “bike throttle”
Up to you.
I use my roll (twist) axis for strafe up/down.
Some people use it AKA Motorcycle - throttle forward/back.
Up to you. Whatever is most comfortable/intuitive.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Thanks!
@@lordfraybin Apprecited!
would you ever even consider doing a review on the x56? or is it too low end for ya? (ps sorry if i seem like an asshole the way i worded it or like I'm aggressive i mean no offense)
30 days out waiting for mine.
It makes me sad. I just bought my CM2‘s two years ago and I was missing the cruise control feature of a throttle all the time. Now I could have all in one but the wallet says no and I already have two bases. It would be stupid to buy a 3rd. Frustrating.
is it a good idea to do a z extension for the right stick as well?
If you find it comfortable, its quite nice. I find it helps with being able to play for very long sessions.
I run 2 vkb omni sticks. It took some getting used to as I found yaw and roll to suddenly lose my muscle memory with the new hand position. I think rudders may have helped but I'm OK with what I have for now using right twist to roll. I find this set up is great ergonomically if you have to place your hands far apart or your desk mounts are lower.
Hope I will get a new Glad NXT that is probably the cheapest stick that can be used this way...
Can't find the dual z-extension video.
If you could post a link I'd appreciate it.
Love my VKB Omni Throttle.
Any chance you will sell your old VKBs? Seeing how you have the amazing Virpils
Looking to save some $.
I'll take one
Where is the video on dual z extensions?
aren't we all waiting for your take on 3.18 live.. ;)
WEEOO indeed.
Seems like a nice hybrid approach between dual sticks and throttle option. You mentioned a deadzone for zeroing out. Are there, I guess, cams or something for giving it a little tactile feedback for when you zero?
Electronic deadzone. I wouldnt use cams for Y on my left if it was flat throttle like this.
I need a friction clutch in my left stick
It’s possible
Ok I have to ask. Did you, or anyone ells, ever try playing a bike sim with the joysticks z extension x2 using the twist for thottle? Does it work ok or is it shit? I really need to know xD
This is. It optima. Why not just get a bike throttle
Can I use this to fly helicoper?
No
I was wondering if it’s possible that you can send me one I been playing DCS on keyboard for 4 years now and I really want a hotas but I can’t afford one so I was wondering if you have any old hotas that you don’t use no more I well take anything i just want a hotas to play the game I enjoy the most
No need for playing around with springs. With Star Citizen I just use cruise control to lock in my acceleration.
What your thought on the Winwing Orion 2 hotas set up's?
This video is better, not reading a script as much.. seems more natural
For the price, I’ll take VKB every time
Vkb doesn’t offer a left handed stick for their modern combat grip. So is your going top of the line, virpil is the only option.
@@Xaxxusyeah I guess if you have to have top of the line.
Monster drink is bad for you 😊