A great overview of the genre. I didn't realise this type of game existed until last winter, when I bought the 'Baker Street Irregulars' game on a whim, as something to play with my family during one of the interminable lockdowns. All of us were immediately hooked, now I can't get enough of them! My personal 'sweet spot' for the ideal number of players is 3 - that way you get a good balance between hearing fresh perspectives on the mystery, and having to wait around for other players to take their turn. When my family plays we take it in turns to visit a lead and read out the text, while the other two players take notes, study the newspaper / other documents, or theorise based on what we've heard so far. Sometimes we'll pause to discuss a theory or clear up a point of confusion, and if we break overnight while solving a case, we often find ourselves discussing it during the rest of the day as well!
What a wonderful description of how fun these games can be to play together! It's really nice to hear that all 3 of you are having fun playing and thinking and talking together. One of the very best things about these kinds of games is bouncing ideas back and forth. I love the description of you guys taking turns reading and breaking overnight to talk and chew over the case. You are really getting into it the way these games were meant to be played at their best. -jesse
One of the most important rules for detectives is to constantly question your assumptions about all things. That's surprisingly hard because our assumptions are invisible to us. One of the most shocking and educational aspects of these kinds of games is learning how incredibly hard it is to avoid making invisible unspoken assumptions. ADDING: Here's a specific tip you can use which some games try to catch you sleeping on. Question your assumptions about specific people you hear about. Have you assumed that someone is female or male based on their name? Or have you assumed that a nickname refers to someone just because you have met someone with a similar name? It's easy to make an erroneous assumption that two people who are referred to by different appellations are the same or different, or assume a characteristic about a person based on their name/title/occupation/etc.
I really enjoyed your talk about these games. I'm not new to narrative games but I am new to stuff like the forensics and fingerprint style of gaming. Your advice is great because I've seen a few playthoughs where people did not have such a great time. One of the greatest weakensses I can see so far is the pressure caused by trying to play against the clock, causing players to miss so much crucial information. Getting rid of the stopwatch when you play this style of game is very enjoyable. I'd rather emmerse myself in the whole case for as long as I need, than find I've got 300 points but still don't understand what happened! Really wonderful video, thanks again.
Thank you so so much. I've saved your video in my list. Very very informative and a must watch video for all beginners. I hope this video will be updated in the future. Again... Thanks alot and keep making those interactive videos. Game on!
Thanks, Joe. It's a little cringey to see the parts where I am repeating myself ad nauseum but it was a useful exercise to try to organize some of these thoughts and maybe there are a couple of useful nuggets buried within that 70 minutes :)
ADDING: More items to buy: 3-ring binders, 3-ring whole punch, and 3-ring divider sheets. These items are the tools of the trade if you want to print out print&play games and cases. The small diameter (0.5 inch) will work fine for almost all games, and my suggestion is get one quality one and use the same binder for every new game (old games can be removed and recycled or saved loose for historical memories). Use index dividers to separate important sections (areas, end questions, etc.).
ADDING: One tip regarding taking notes that I've recently been reminded of -- for games like SHCD where you may want to go back and read specific leads, it's really helpful to record which leads introduced/talked about which characters. In a recent game we played, after about 8 hours in I wanted to go back and read about character X and I couldn't remember where we had read about them. So I recommend keeping maybe a list of each character mentioned (maybe even each subject mentioned) -- maybe each on their own index card, and then keeping track on that list each lead that refers to them. Then if you want to remember what lead #s talked about a certain person it's easy to go back and re-read those leads.
ADDING: I have found that it's difficult to keep map temporarily taped down to the game mat. Normal scotch removable double sided tape is useless. The thicker rubberized (silicone) removable tape does better. Scotch also makes a removable "poster" double sided tape, that I will be trying soon.
Also realized how videos like this might be interesting to developers. Let's them see what frameworks for solving and having fun players are bringing into their games.
Another great video Jesse! These are all great tips. We have very similar tools and approach to playing these games and it's always great to see what other people are doing to improve your own gameplay.
You make some really good points. I want to comment specifically on meta game, which I have a slightly different view: I try very hard not to think about it when playing. I know for some it's fun to play the meta game, but for me I like to experience the story as intended by the author. For me, this is also criteria for a "good design": I'm less incentivized to play the meta game.
I think that's a very good point -- sometimes trying to "meta game" these things is a fun puzzle, but sometimes it takes away from the experience and one would be better advises to roleplay decisions and go with your gut. I think sometimes figuring out which approach brings you the most enjoyment for any given game is important. jesse
Just starting this one, but one element I'm curious to see is your note taking methodology for a particular game. I've never formalized a system I like in any of the games I play, beyond realizing full sentences tend to not work for general note taking (the resulting glut acts as a disincentive for review). I like an idea you mentioned in reference to Vienna Connection: dedicating a full page to each lead, and using different colors to denote specific things you wanted to pop out on a review (further leads and/or proper nouns, etc). Will look into that more for our next game. A Google Doc might be a cool way of working too.
I probably should have had a full section on note taking! It's an area where I am still evolving. Perhaps one reason not to give too much hard advice about note taking is that it's one of the real pleasurable challenges that the player must figure out how to solve themselves! Having said that, some quick thoughts on note taking: As I see it there are a couple of main challenges: 1) Forgetting to write something down. 2) Not being able to read your own handwriting. 3) Not being able to find something important in your notes when you need it. 4) Not re-reading your notes and spotting important info. Again, it's FUN to try to overcome these -- and maybe it's the closest experience we have in these games to a challenge that a real detective will face. I have found a couple of approaches to solving those: 1) Appropriately sized notebook (small) and use one single side page for each lead 2) Put the lead # (location) clearly in big letters at top of page. 3) Write some information in CAPS that you want to be easy to find (names?) 4) Use index cards for some information that needs collecting and reviewing over time (one card per suspect) 5) Use a couple of extra index cards for misc. things like UNRESOLVED ISSUES you don't want to forget to resolve before you finish the game (e.g. "Who left the blood footprints") 6) Periodically REVIEW your notes when you take a break. On a super hard long case, you might actually re-type and organize them on the computer; in other cases you might just re-write a page; in other cases (most frequently) you might just mark in some way important items so they are easier to find on reflection. 7) Any notes you make on cards that are explicitly specifically about a location, record where you got that info! So if you have a card for a suspect that you add info to each time you find a new clue that tells you about them, each item you add should have a reference to where that info is from "They are tall [lead#24]" This is going to be very important when you find you have to double-back to check something. 8) Develop a system for annotating your notes to clearly indicate OPTIONS that you need to go back to. For example, if we read a lead in SHCD and it mentions 2 other locations we want to go to, I try to do something to make sure I don't miss/forget that -- UNDERLINING, DIF COLOR PEN, ETC. That's just off the top of my head, I'll add more as I remember. Maybe eventually I'll do a follow-up to this video and talk about this and other things I forgot to talk about. -jesse
A great overview of the genre. I didn't realise this type of game existed until last winter, when I bought the 'Baker Street Irregulars' game on a whim, as something to play with my family during one of the interminable lockdowns. All of us were immediately hooked, now I can't get enough of them!
My personal 'sweet spot' for the ideal number of players is 3 - that way you get a good balance between hearing fresh perspectives on the mystery, and having to wait around for other players to take their turn. When my family plays we take it in turns to visit a lead and read out the text, while the other two players take notes, study the newspaper / other documents, or theorise based on what we've heard so far. Sometimes we'll pause to discuss a theory or clear up a point of confusion, and if we break overnight while solving a case, we often find ourselves discussing it during the rest of the day as well!
What a wonderful description of how fun these games can be to play together! It's really nice to hear that all 3 of you are having fun playing and thinking and talking together. One of the very best things about these kinds of games is bouncing ideas back and forth. I love the description of you guys taking turns reading and breaking overnight to talk and chew over the case. You are really getting into it the way these games were meant to be played at their best. -jesse
One of the most important rules for detectives is to constantly question your assumptions about all things. That's surprisingly hard because our assumptions are invisible to us. One of the most shocking and educational aspects of these kinds of games is learning how incredibly hard it is to avoid making invisible unspoken assumptions.
ADDING: Here's a specific tip you can use which some games try to catch you sleeping on. Question your assumptions about specific people you hear about. Have you assumed that someone is female or male based on their name? Or have you assumed that a nickname refers to someone just because you have met someone with a similar name? It's easy to make an erroneous assumption that two people who are referred to by different appellations are the same or different, or assume a characteristic about a person based on their name/title/occupation/etc.
I really enjoyed your talk about these games. I'm not new to narrative games but I am new to stuff like the forensics and fingerprint style of
gaming. Your advice is great because I've seen a few playthoughs where people did not have such a great time. One of the greatest weakensses I can see so far is the pressure caused by trying to play against the clock, causing players to miss so much crucial information. Getting rid of the stopwatch when you play this style of game is very enjoyable. I'd rather emmerse myself in the whole case for as long as I need, than find I've got 300 points but still don't understand what happened! Really wonderful video, thanks again.
thank you for such nice comments. I generally agree completely about time limits.. I don't care about scores I'd rather take my time.
Thank you so so much. I've saved your video in my list. Very very informative and a must watch video for all beginners. I hope this video will be updated in the future. Again... Thanks alot and keep making those interactive videos. Game on!
Thanks, Joe. It's a little cringey to see the parts where I am repeating myself ad nauseum but it was a useful exercise to try to organize some of these thoughts and maybe there are a couple of useful nuggets buried within that 70 minutes :)
ADDING: More items to buy: 3-ring binders, 3-ring whole punch, and 3-ring divider sheets. These items are the tools of the trade if you want to print out print&play games and cases. The small diameter (0.5 inch) will work fine for almost all games, and my suggestion is get one quality one and use the same binder for every new game (old games can be removed and recycled or saved loose for historical memories). Use index dividers to separate important sections (areas, end questions, etc.).
ADDING: One tip regarding taking notes that I've recently been reminded of -- for games like SHCD where you may want to go back and read specific leads, it's really helpful to record which leads introduced/talked about which characters. In a recent game we played, after about 8 hours in I wanted to go back and read about character X and I couldn't remember where we had read about them. So I recommend keeping maybe a list of each character mentioned (maybe even each subject mentioned) -- maybe each on their own index card, and then keeping track on that list each lead that refers to them. Then if you want to remember what lead #s talked about a certain person it's easy to go back and re-read those leads.
ADDING: I have found that it's difficult to keep map temporarily taped down to the game mat. Normal scotch removable double sided tape is useless. The thicker rubberized (silicone) removable tape does better. Scotch also makes a removable "poster" double sided tape, that I will be trying soon.
Also realized how videos like this might be interesting to developers. Let's them see what frameworks for solving and having fun players are bringing into their games.
It's almost enough to make one want to create one of these mystery games oneself :)
Absolutely, I was just watching this thinking “this could just as easily be used to help people WRITE a case too”. Fantastic video
What a great video! Very thorough. Thanks!
Thanks annamaria! -jesse
Such a great video and encapsulation of the genre.
Thank you for saying so, Jonathan! -jesse
Another great video Jesse! These are all great tips. We have very similar tools and approach to playing these games and it's always great to see what other people are doing to improve your own gameplay.
Thanks, Winnie! Would love to hear any tips and tricks from others.
-jesse
You make some really good points. I want to comment specifically on meta game, which I have a slightly different view: I try very hard not to think about it when playing. I know for some it's fun to play the meta game, but for me I like to experience the story as intended by the author. For me, this is also criteria for a "good design": I'm less incentivized to play the meta game.
I think that's a very good point -- sometimes trying to "meta game" these things is a fun puzzle, but sometimes it takes away from the experience and one would be better advises to roleplay decisions and go with your gut. I think sometimes figuring out which approach brings you the most enjoyment for any given game is important. jesse
@@COOPFORTWO Play the meta-meta game!
@@water3745 🤣
Just starting this one, but one element I'm curious to see is your note taking methodology for a particular game. I've never formalized a system I like in any of the games I play, beyond realizing full sentences tend to not work for general note taking (the resulting glut acts as a disincentive for review).
I like an idea you mentioned in reference to Vienna Connection: dedicating a full page to each lead, and using different colors to denote specific things you wanted to pop out on a review (further leads and/or proper nouns, etc). Will look into that more for our next game. A Google Doc might be a cool way of working too.
I probably should have had a full section on note taking! It's an area where I am still evolving. Perhaps one reason not to give too much hard advice about note taking is that it's one of the real pleasurable challenges that the player must figure out how to solve themselves!
Having said that, some quick thoughts on note taking: As I see it there are a couple of main challenges:
1) Forgetting to write something down.
2) Not being able to read your own handwriting.
3) Not being able to find something important in your notes when you need it.
4) Not re-reading your notes and spotting important info.
Again, it's FUN to try to overcome these -- and maybe it's the closest experience we have in these games to a challenge that a real detective will face.
I have found a couple of approaches to solving those:
1) Appropriately sized notebook (small) and use one single side page for each lead
2) Put the lead # (location) clearly in big letters at top of page.
3) Write some information in CAPS that you want to be easy to find (names?)
4) Use index cards for some information that needs collecting and reviewing over time (one card per suspect)
5) Use a couple of extra index cards for misc. things like UNRESOLVED ISSUES you don't want to forget to resolve before you finish the game (e.g. "Who left the blood footprints")
6) Periodically REVIEW your notes when you take a break. On a super hard long case, you might actually re-type and organize them on the computer; in other cases you might just re-write a page; in other cases (most frequently) you might just mark in some way important items so they are easier to find on reflection.
7) Any notes you make on cards that are explicitly specifically about a location, record where you got that info! So if you have a card for a suspect that you add info to each time you find a new clue that tells you about them, each item you add should have a reference to where that info is from "They are tall [lead#24]" This is going to be very important when you find you have to double-back to check something.
8) Develop a system for annotating your notes to clearly indicate OPTIONS that you need to go back to. For example, if we read a lead in SHCD and it mentions 2 other locations we want to go to, I try to do something to make sure I don't miss/forget that -- UNDERLINING, DIF COLOR PEN, ETC.
That's just off the top of my head, I'll add more as I remember. Maybe eventually I'll do a follow-up to this video and talk about this and other things I forgot to talk about. -jesse