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Hall Model 1819: A Rifle to Change the Industrial World
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
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John Hall designed the first breechloading rifle to be used by the United States military, and the first breechloader issued in substantial numbers by any military worldwide. His carbines would later be the first percussion arms adopted by any military force. Hall developed a breechloading flintlock rifle in 1811, had it tested by the military in 1818, and formally adopted as a specialty arm in 1819.
Hall’s contribution actually goes well beyond having a novel and advanced rifle design. He would be the first person to devise a system of machine tools capable of producing interchangeable parts without hand fitting, and this advance would be the foundation of the American system of manufacturing that would revolutionize industry worldwide. Hall did this work at the Harpers Ferry Arsenal, where he worked from 1819 until his death in 1841.
I plan to expand on the details of a variety of Hall rifle models in future videos, and today is meant to be an introduction to the system. Because it was never a primary arm in time of major war, Hall is much less well recognized than he should be among those interested in small arms history.
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John Hall was the true pioneer. Eli Whitney actually FAKED his demonstration of interchangeable parts for the government. Hall was given a long time to complete his 1000 rifles. The guy running Harper's Ferry (got the job for politics) hated Hall and considered him a flim-flam man because he wasted time NOT producing rifles, and NOT hiring lots of men to make them. Kept reporting him as such. When the congressional committee showed up, he demonstrated one boy operating machines that were making perfectly interchangeable parts, and demonstrated that they WERE interchangeable. They were floored. NOBODY expected such a leap forward. Hall and North came up with the use of standardized measuring tools to keep the measurements universal over long distances, too. Frankly, it looks like Hall may well be the true originator of modern manufacturing. I'll have to look for it, but there is an excellent write-up on it somewhere online.
Everything this man says is true.
Please do share that link if you find it.
citation needed
@@God-mb8wi Why would you need a citation? We were both there.
@@God-mb8wi www.amazon.com/dp/0917218736/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_F7cSFbQ5JFHYA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I assume the info is in here, but $.
Adding the history of the designers is a big reason why I love this channel, thanks Ian for the work you put into your videos.
Bingo! Giving us that historical context, especially the people, is what brings these stories to life.
DESERT ROGUES!!!!
If you love the context and personalities of gun development you should definitely give Othais and Mae a try at C&Rsenal.
Agreed, though the mechanical aspects are also interesting. Live shoots are always a great topper (when possible)
Exactly what we're all thinking 😄
It was pretty much the closest thing to "modular" any weapon platform could get in that particular time period with the available interchangeable parts this beautiful rifle had.
It looks like it would have been relatively simple to have created a cartridge action to replace the flintlock unit.
One Doomed Spacemarine Or a toggle lock?
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine nah, a simple reverse load breech. keep the same movement of action and just drop the round tail first into the chamber lose the action and fire.
@@therake8897 no need, a simple flammable resin holding the gunpowder and bullet together. Its similar to the early attempts at producing caseless ammunition. Its doable even as early as the 1850's
One Doomed Spacemarine you are calling for a completely new gun and machining which is much more expensive and unlikely to happen
Their most famous use was in the Mexican American War. Soldiers found the percussion breech could be removed, put in a pocket, and carried in Mexico City as a pistol. It was done enough that orders had to be issued for them to stop doing it.
I have seen information that tale is probably mostly a fable.
@@johnkelinske1449 It probably is a fable, but I've seen a painting depicting a U.S. soldier named Sam Chamberlain using a Hall's breech block in that manner. He's holding this stubby little pistol at the far end of a room, and a crowd of men in stereotypical Mexican dress are charging towards him with knives. It's on page 79 of the book "Peacemakers: Arms and Adventure in the American West" by R.L. Wilson. The caption reads "Sam Chamberlain holding Mexicans at bay with the breechblock of his Hall percussion carbine."
@@hunter35474 I know. Look at Gun Digest 51st Annual Edition, 1997 excellent article on the Hall starts on page 168 where the author mentions trying that with his Hall breechblock. The author in his testing mentioned he had an effective range of probably 15' with it.
Well, as I mentioned on another thread, that's across the table or alley. Which is probably enough to buy you time to get the hell out of wherever it is you just became seriously unwelcome. The engraving as well as the practice is also described in Harold L. Peterson's "The Book Of The Gun". If it was a highly unofficial practise and liable to get one in trouble, possibly twice over (wandering off into the city in search of wine, women, and decent food) it's no surprise that the practice is hard to document a century or two later.
Doby Pilgrim- damn it, you beat me to it. My grandfather had the breech block of a Hall and every fourth of July he'd take it out and shoot at his berm, then pass it around to the kids (including the grown-up kids) for their turn shooting it. The finale was double powder and thin strips of news paper (in later years it turned to toilet paper) for our own fireworks show.
My uncle has it now, but he didn't have any kids so I goes to me when he passes. That's probably a good thing. I build muzzleloaders From scratch and have had to build parts for it from time to time. Have a nice day.
One of the most fascinating things about Hall’s Rifle Works at Harpers Ferry is that his factories were completely powered by water in only a few years
Men of earlier eras were incredibly creative!
The NRA museum in VA has one of these on display. Their information was not as in-depth and detailed as your work.
Thank you for all the work you do.
Monotech2.0
Visited the museum at the end of February this year and it was still in the display.
But I don’t LaPierre at all. NRA needs to be reformed to save itself.
Monotech2.0 Uncle Wayne needs to go! He think the NRA is his personal slush fund. Be sure to vote for directors.
Another place one can see a Hall "in the flesh" is at Fort Scott National Historic Site in Kansas. They have the carbine version on display there in the exhibit on the U.S. Dragoons.
I saw the Hall Rifle at NRA last... August? Very cool collection.
And when you see something like this in a museum, you don’t get to see it taken apart and shown how it works. That is why this channel is such a treasure.
As a engineer I can believe in interchangeable parts in XIXth century. Getting a government to wait years for delivery- now that's the really impressive part!
I dont know if anythings changed, but modern governments seem incredibly patient on waiting on the results of tax payer money.
There's an entire invisible bridge jn London that was planned, paid for, but mysteriously then mayor Boris Johnson had no more updates about his new bridge. People are still waiting on its construction and its been so long he became and then finished being PM.
Similar story to the HS2 high speed railway plan and so many things.
So I find it more surprising anything was delivered rather than the government didnt care about waiting
That rifle just looks SO well made, John Hall's manufacturing techniques are obviously to credit for that. A true genius.
I am amazing. Thank you so much.
@Stop Banningme Somebody ban this guy already.
Marine stereotype...as early as 1820....
"References to crayons in literature appear as early as 1813 in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. Joseph Lemercier (born in Paris 1803-died 1884), considered by some of his contemporaries to be "the soul of lithography", was also one of the founders of the modern crayon. Through his Paris business circa 1828, he produced a variety of crayon and color related products." -Wikipedia
Math checks out.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Why am I not surprised.
@@zacharyrollick6169 The more things change...
I am so happy someone mentioned this.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I want to believe that you are telling the truth, because it would be hilarious, but I can't find anything about it on Google...
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine
Undoubtedly lead based paint, considering the time in history, and, well... Marines.
“The Sig Trigger Pack in 1819”
Hm. So basically this is the SCAR-H of two hundred years ago - based on previous technologies applied in a novel manner, well engineered, actually mass produced, kind of expensive, limited issue only to special troops, in a different caliber than regular troops would use and not issued to Marines because they'd just break them.
I bet crayons were a big change to the wodd patch rations XD
LOL
@gofa curself It's a running joke.
@gofa curself i fail to see how marksmanship and being in federal service since 1775 (not sure how they could be in federal service before the founding of our modern government though) correlates to treating their equipment well or intelligence.
Not saying they don't treat their stuff well, just what you said is in no way evidence that they do.
SCAR-H mass produced? Pretty sure they are kinda small batch compared to any other military rifle.
The Breech face gap to barrel on this rifle was substantially tighter than any Revolver/Revolving Rifle/Shotgun of the period. So gas blow by is a non sequitur, in relation to that. For it's time The Hall Rifle was and still is a brilliant design. Halls dedication to it's production lead the way for the modern "Production Standards' in place were all parts are built to a rigid standard with quality control testing throughout to ensure interchangeability of those parts, that most take for granted.
I have an 1819 Hall Rifle in orig. flint. The hammer, however, is brass, the the top jaw and screw are iron and the frizzen is brass faced with iron. It looks like very fine factory work. Any rhoughts for who or why ? Ron Evans
This thing even has a semi pistol grip, this thing is way ahead of it’s time
Have you ever seen german Schützen- or Hunting muzzleloaders with Harfenbügel/ harp style trigger guard?
It was indeed, but these kind of grips had been used centuries before, only that it was mostly higher end hunting rifles and crossbows
I did not know that, no. You learn something new every day
@@ottovonbearsmark8876 czcams.com/video/Rk-pISvud6w/video.html
Check this out. Not much of a fan of flamboyant weapons but the practical details it has are awesome
The baker rifle is an example of a military rifle with such feature
Rumour has it that the breech block assembly could be removed and used as a stand - alone, "impromptu" handgun - but I personally would not want to try it. Thanks for the video, Ian!
Phil Spangenberger mentioned that in a Proof House test way back in the 1980s. I think it was a replica on test.
@@CandidZulu The magazine, "Guns of the Old West" had an article on it a year or two back - and the author actually fired several rounds through it.
So if someone grabs your muzzle, you release the breech block and shoot him - surprise - in the face.
@@kbjerke There was a bit on it in one of the Shooter's Bibles too. Mostly an old wive's tale.
@Gary Etheridge Me too! It's on p. 79 in a book called "Peacemakers" by R.L. Wilson.
“Been going on...”
I would actually love to hear more about Mr. Hall and his venture into interchangeable parts. That kind of stuff is fascinating to me.
I wonder how many of these rifles were "midnight acquisitioned" by the Marine Corps. I find it hard to believe Marines just accepted "No" for an answer.
The Corps did, in fact, buy a number of them, and use them in the Seminole War. As for the "Marines break everything" meme; yeah, we play hard, but we take good care of our weapons. Other stuff, not so much.,
They take care of thier equipment when they need to use it. Otherwise, what's the point of training if you can't see what your gear can handle in extremis?
... I cannot believe I just came to the defense of the Marines... Bad Army REMF, bad!
@@donnacorrell3527 I 100 percent believe the "Marines break everything" given how my cousin in the USMC broke his back
I would bet that the Marines "acquired" many of them that way.
And these would have been ideal for marine use since they could load them in close quarters such as a landing boat
Whenever there are thise kind of weird "pistol grips but not quite" i wish Ian would give us a show of how to hold the damn thing because i haven't the slightest idea
While comparatively smaller I would suggest watching this video done by C&Rsenal: czcams.com/video/krJxBhHTSuI/video.html to see how the bolt on pistol grip is used and makes a difference in handling. Hope this helps.
i dont think the full hand is wrapped around. just the fingers hold onto the metal grip and the palm rests on the side.
It's basically exactly like you might expect
While Ian talks about Hall and his ideas about serialized production, I couldn't help but remember The Chieftain speaking about the operative differences between the M4 Sherman - all parts industrially machined to standard specs and, thus, rapidly interchangeable with "random" spares - and its German adversaries - almost everything hand-fit to each tank.
Dare I say that mr. Hall "lesson" served the U. S. well.
Thanks for this video. As a teenager doing some yardwork for a family, the homeowner pulled one these Halls from a garage shelf to show me. The stock wood was fairly deteriorated in the area of the lock. Your video explains why.
I find the interchangeable parts aspect fascinating, in part because there’s interchangeable parts and there’s interchangeable parts. Even with machines producing the parts, if the tolerances are too loose you still need some hand fitting or even if the equipment “works”, a replacement will not be as good as the original. The well-known issues with matching vs. mixed “Arisakas” (Arisaka himself only designed the Type 30) is one most here would know of, but there are other issues across many nations.
While my study is at best superficial, it appears the US was ahead of the curve by WWI and through WWII, with very tight tolerance standards compared to other nations, and I’ve often heard that replacement parts for firearms (particularly Colts) was a key factor. I had wondered how far back this went, and it seems Hall had a key roll in this process.
Two key developments in the ability of the ability to produce tight tolerance work on a mass scale was the development of the first commercial micrometers (Palmer in France and Brown and Sharpe in the US) and gage blocks by Johannson in Sweden. These combined with flat surfaces allowed the inspection levels required. Moores Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy covers a lot of what is really required.
@@mpetersen6 And don't forget Henry Maudslay (1771-1831) whose work on measurements, threads & lathe design provided the basis for machine tool development. It has always pissed me off that every school kid in UK is taught about poets like Keats & Shelley of a similar time period, whose works, whilst alright if you like that sort of thing, contributed SFA to the modern world. Maudslay & the like, on the other hand, about whom we were taught nothing, were instrumental in driving the Industrial Revolution. It's a sad thing that the arts & humanities, to this day , are grossly over rated in society.
+I'm beachedwhale1945
I really wish people would stop throwing around the term "tolerance" as though it is the end all for modern machining.
Other terms (clearance, parallelism, etc, etc) are just as (sometimes more) important. But outside actual mechanical engineers, machinists, and mechanical /dimensional inspectors, their relationships /importance to each other are either unknown or misunderstood.
@@stevecolley6750 Don't you think that for most people the word "tolerance" covers ALL of those things? I have specialist knowledge in some pretty arcane fields too....but I don't get bent out of shape when other people use the technically inaccurate "generic" terms ....they get across what they are trying to say...which IS the point of communication after all.
@@trooperdgb9722
NO!
Words have pretty specific meanings called definitions.
If one means to say "gold" (speaking of the element) but uses the word "dung", it certainly does not convey the intended meaning.
BTW - I was /am not "bent out of shape" by the others comments which incorrectly spoke of "tolerance. I am however upset over YOU suggesting that it is allowable to use words in whatever manner we choose. You are an ass, and an ignorant one at that.
I remember reading about this in a 1950’s book about civil war weaponry where they used the Hall as a control in Minie ball tests. Evidently it had significantly less penetration and velocity compared to its peers, but it’s still such a cool and innovative system.
Too bad they didn't use a cam to push forward the chamber like in the Kammerlader rifle. It would have made for a much better seal.
16:36 They had crayons in the 1820s, I checked.
Probably boxes of 5 colors. Red, Blue, Yellow, Black and White.
Crayon is of course pencil in French
Techniques for wax colored drawings go back to at least the 1st Century AD.
Pretty soon museums are just going to install a small video screen beside each of their exhibits with a Forgotten Weapons vid to autoplay when you stick your headphones into the jack.
Come for the guns, stay for the history lessons. They don't teach this stuff in schools!
What a great bit of history.
Helps to explain the importance of Harper's Ferry not only as an armory but also as a pre-eminent manufacturing design center, a technology hub of its time.
16:08 That sounds like something the Army would say to the Marine corps today when they ask to "loan" equipment. _Some things truly don't change._
Haha, I was working with a marine squad last year, and they were in the middle of reminiscing about their platoon mascot. A hamster who's name I can't remember. I asked what happened to it and a female private nonchalantly replied that it was thrown out of a third story window, like that was a perfectly understandable mistake to make. I fairly immediately recognized the danger of leaving anything with the.😂
If the Army had sent crayons with them, the rifles would have been returned in pristine condition.
Yeah, I lol'd pretty hard at that.
@@Jason-fm4my My dad was in the coast guard, rubbed shoulders with a lot a marines for various training schools and things. Said the stereotype was mostly true for 90%, but the other 10% were about the most intelligent guys you could ever meet.
@@butchmonster8031 Easy, I know how it is.
Saw one of these at my local gun shop and got a history lesson from the man behind the counter. It was surreal. Needless to say she wasn't for sale.
The breech block looks like an old hand plane
I have a lot of old hand planes and I am just not seeing that. Any model in particular?
@@johnsmith-sp6yl like an old wooden try plane? I can see it looking a bit like this i.pinimg.com/originals/63/1a/e1/631ae1f1a4e940ffbdd8869ea38df19e.jpg
Maybe Hall wasn't actually a genius gunsmith but instead a VERY unsuccessful hand plane manufacturer.
Reminds me of a block plane my grandpa used to have, I think I've still got it.
Some 30 some odd years ago while studying various actions for a future career in forensic ballistics I recall reading a bit about the Hall. Leave it to Ian to give me a whole new appreciation for Hall and his contributions to firearms manufacture. Thanks Ian.
Merritt Roe Smith's "Harpers Ferry Armory and the New Technology: The Challenge of Change" has a great account of Hall's time as head of the rifle works and the resistance he faced locally in achieving interchangeability. Really neat to see a surviving example of his rifle after reading about it. Thanks Ian!
That is a very cool firearm. K-12 schools teach that Henry Ford first used interchangeable parts, however this history lesson completely shatters that paradigm. Thanks Ian!
I thought it was winchester
I want C&Rsenal to talk about this gun for like 2 hours
I concur.
2hours? ill take a 4 hour cut.
And this, unfgh uhh ahhhh, is a Hall rifle
"A semi-pistol grip!
Admit it, you come for the guns but you stay for Mae's beautiful smile. Hey it's ok.
I’m a lifelong history and firearms buff. This Ian character never ceases to amaze me with yet another something I was totally ignorant of. What a great piece of firearm and industrial manufacturing history. Good on ya!
On the priming hole, I'm sure that shorter travel to the charge also reduced delay between the hammer fall and the actual shot. If you've ever fire a flintlock you soon learn there is a slight delay and with that powder going off in the flash pan near your face you must learn to ignore that (don't flinch) for accurate shooting. I'm sure the delay is only something like 1/8 of a second, but that shorter and direct travel in the Hall rifle must cut the delay in half.
I'm not so sure about that.... a properly placed priming charge in a conventional flintlock pan will quite literally "flash" through to the main charge. One does NOT fill the flash hole with powder..... The problem I see with the Hall is that the priming powder might indeed FILL the flash hole... then "fuse" through when ignited...rather than having that "flash" through...which would almost certainly increase the delay.. (Which as you point out can be pretty minimal indeed)
I saw a Hall in the firearms collection of the Smithsonion when I was about 13 and was absolutely fascinated by it. Thanks for providing the background and showing how it worked.
"I am practically acquainted with the use of Hall's arms, and assert unqualifiedly that if my honor and life were at stake, and depended on the use of firearms, I would sooner take one the these (Hall carbines) than any other weapon." Lieutenant Colonel George Talcott, Assistant Chief of Ordinance, 1845
It had flaws but just imagine having a breach loading rifle in a time when the smooth bore musket was the primary weapon. A soldier with a good eye and steady hands could probably pick off an officer on their horse at ranges not familiar to most shooters. I mean I figure the specialist units that got these were made up of people who were already very good shots with non rifled guns.
Definitely go for the officers
This is a fascinating rifle, I've gotten to handle one for work, and it is a nice landmark in military tech. Thanks for making this info more widely available to the larger public!
lucky guy!
My senses were “tingling” and they are rewarded with “Time with Uncle Ian” ☺️
They ‘where?’ Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.
Travis Jordan I have now corrected my English 😉
I misread it as 1918 and I was super confused
It could be something used in 1918 in like Afghanistan since they still had quite a few soldiers equipped with black powder weapons up until the 1980s.
So Hall was the Henry Ford of firearms production... in the 1820s. That is impressive.
And even managed to do it on the governments dime! What a legend!!!
Amazing to think it's the best part of 200 years old and looks almost off the production line.
11:22 If you look up Machine Thinking's vid "The Origins of Precision" you'll find out why it was so hard for early industrialist to calibrate tools so that one factory's parts would match another's. Not to mention that they didn't have logical, international standard units of measurements to calibrate with.
One can reach a much higher level of precision by hand than most people understand. As an example people who hand grind telescope mirrors for reflecting telescopes. It is possible to produce very flat surfaces by hand using The Three Plate Method in which three flat surface plates are produced using two plates to check the third and alternating which plate you are scraping by hand. Scraping is an art all in itself. The trick is of course developing the set of standards and measuring tools required for two individuals in different locations to produced parts within tolerance that will work together. Some would say the development of the first screw cutting lathe really jump started the Industrial Age. Some would say the steam engine. In reality it was a number things working together.
@@mpetersen6 when I setup the micrometer blocks on wheel dressers I rebuilt I'd dial them in by swiping the blocks by hand on some 600 wet or dry sandpaper on a surface plate. A light pass would take off very little material. That was after they were surface ground to within 0.0005" You'd go the rest of the way by hand.
The lack of standard units was a problem into the 1950’s. The US still has two different standard inches (a metric one from 1959 and an imperial one).
The 0.303 rifle is a 0.303 because London and Enfield used different standard inches (Enfield had a slightly bigger one).
@@allangibson8494 the US standardized on the industrial inch long ago. The industrial inch was the defacto standard since 1896. The US never used Imperial measurements. Ever. The difference between the industrial inch and the old US inch was academic in machining anyways. It was 1.7 millionths of an inch longer than the old imperial inch and 2 millionths of an inch shorter than the old US inch. No one works to the millionth of an inch either. A ten thousandth is normally close enough. Heck +3 thousandths is usually spec.
Paul Frederick The US and UK had different definitions of the inch until 1959 but there were about forty definitions of what an inch was in use during the 1800’s in Europe (one of the drivers for the adoption of metric units). It carried on long enough for machine tools like lathes to not make interchangeable precision threads during WW2. That was why for things like rifles you had go/no go gauges supplied from a central location. The Scottish Inch was 25.4406 mm for instance (and James Watt used this in his engines). Enfield used the Geneva inch (as did a lot of other machine tool builders).
"It's not how much you shoot, it's how much you hit."
shot out my entire magazine and managed to kill half of my team instead of 1 enemy, The Pro Gaymer
Hunt showdown in a nutshell
**suppressive fire noises**
so where's the Oates rifle?
At the Abandoned Luncheonette.
With the Quakers.
It’s cooled down because we didn’t use it too much.
No can do.
Your out of luck.
Fascinating. My first exposure to the Hall was back in the 70's when I used to visit Ft. Tejon in California, which was home to the US "Camel Corps" and their "Dragoons" were issued Hall Carbines (in percussion) during the 1840's. I was simply amazed.
I used to reenact there and the ranger was in my unit. I slept in the barracks and got nice access to the displays.
Hall's 'American System' for interchangeable parts, once refined, means higher quality, mass produced goods can made at volumes that can make the product accessible to most people. The development of machine tools to make the parts is his genius, tools that could make parts with high tolerances that allow interchangeable parts.
I actually learned about him in middle school. It's nice to see a video about this weapon.
Ian, your output lately has been just huge -- great work, I love your videos, and your dedication to fairness and historical accuracy is unmatched.
Lock a Marine in a room with three solid steel balls. Come back the next day and he'll have broken one, lost one and stolen the third.
I'm particularly impressed with how smooth the bottom of the lock mortise in the stock is. Those hidden areas often look like they were hacked out with a screwdriver and a hammer in old guns. Even new guns are often rougher than that Hall.
I cannot imagine keeping boxes of finished metal parts rust free for years at Harper's Ferry.
*shudders at the thought of southern humidity*
It really depends on where it is stored. Most "factory" floors I've seen look rather dry as long as there is active work being done. That said... yeah, I really would like to know how the parts were stored.
You'd almost have to submerge them in oil. Harper's Ferry is the very definition of "damp". I think one of the floods wiped the rifle works out.
@@kmech3rd I biked past on the canal towpath a few years back. The whole river valley is m o i s t!
Cosmoline, my friend. Cosmoline. Or whatever equivalent they had at the time. Probably whale blubber or some such thing.
I live half a mile (right up the road) from the Arsenal's location. Can confirm it is m o i s t.
Maine was Massachusetts until 1820. So either they meant he was from what is now Maine or the info and history is just wrong. Loving the video so far!
What is now Maine; Portland specifically.
Forgotten Weapons That’s really great! I’m from and currently still in Maine, I love learning more history about Maine I didn’t previously know. Great video btw just finished it!
Do you want speed or accuracy?
Hall: YES!
With that vertical flash hole, and powder getting down it, this would have had a long lock time.
As a flinter, I take precautions to keep powder out of the hole.
There is a term for when you get powder down the flash hole. We say that it was a 'fusey' shot, meaning that you caused a fuse like action. When I do this I can literally hear the hiss of the powder burning in the flash hole.
I could also see a problem if rainwater got down the flash hole.
Breech loading flintlock. A pinnicle of absolesence. One advantage is could reload and shoot while prone. Thanks for sharing.
A Martini the other way round. Bloody strong action, suprised nobody thought about a cartridge convesion.
Much harder to have a front loading cartridge....look at things like the Thuer conversions....Extraction is a problem for one thing...
John Hall was a genius far ahead of his time. Ian, thanks for your superb explanation of this fine rifle, and for your work in this field. It's obvious you love what you do, keep up the great work!
It's always so cheerful to see Ian's eyes sparkle and watch him go on about a fantastically designed rifle. Seeing him enjoy himself so thoroughly is a legitimate treat.
I read 📖 about the Hall rifle in the first book 📙 about guns I read. I read about it's gas leakage "problem" as well as the block firing mechanism being used as a improvised self-defense pistol. I would 😍 love to see a video of Ian firing a Hall and it's "pistol" variation.
Wow, now this is a very interesting gun. I was quite surprised by the level of technological design for the period. The only problem looks to be fouling around the locking surface. If not cleaned regularly, it would make the opening of the breech quite difficult. Other than that, this must have been a wonderful firearm in that period.
I remember reading about the Hall in Guns & Ammo years ago. I was fascinated by the system and still am.
This is probably one of the coolest things i've seen on this channel. When you started taking it apart I was blown away
Me too.... it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that fine engineering is something very recent... I'm staggered by what was achieved so long ago...
Do you think Hall every imaged his rifles would still be around almost 200 years later? Let alone watching a video about them on a computer, tablet or phone.
A few years ago, a fellow that was doing carpentry work for me in Central Texas brought me a chunk of iron that he'd found down by Laredo many years before. I identified it as a Hall breech block and it was in very good condition. It was probably discarded in the 1840's around the time of the Mexican War.
The quality of workmanship for the time period of a mass produced interchangeable part product is amazing.
Fun fact: apparently four of these were in service aboard USS Constitution as early as 1813, and some ships on the Mediterranean Station were equipped with them by 1921. It seems like the Navy has a bit of a tradition of doing things before the Army.
(Outfitting USS Constitution during the War of 1812, page 10. Published by the USS Constitution Museum.)
The Maine State Museum has a few examples of Hall rifles on display. However, the exhibit only focuses on Hall's work in the State of Maine and gives no indication of either his work at Harper's Ferry or his innovation of interchangeable parts. How wonderful to finally get a good perspective of the man and his profound contribution to American history and technology.
Harpers Ferry is just 20 minutes from where I sit, I should probably visit and see if this armory is still there.
$25=$510 in 1818. I’ll take two please!
Ps. Sooo, can we say Hall was the Stoner of his time?
Correct
Don't forget inflation is only part of the equation, there's also relative purchasing power. $25 would buy you a lot more back then than $510 does today.
Just spitballing a number but I'd guess in relative terms that gun would've cost closer to $2000-$3000 today, which is in line with modern cutting-edge military rifles.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Exactly, tbh my spitball number might be too low but I'm too lazy to look up how to do proper relative buying power calculations. Either way it's certainly not $510, even in bulk I don't think the military gets their M4s for that cheap today let alone when the M16 was first adopted. A cutting-edge rifle like the Hall was extremely expensive, and hell even muskets were extremely expensive due to the numbers of man-hours it took to make them despite their simplicity.
When you're this far back in time, it's usually a good idea to go with the cost of gold. $25 then was 1¼ ounces of gold. So, $1500 to 2000, minimum.
More like the Garand. He's selling the arsenal manufacturing system as much as the rifle.
We have one of these in the Royal Ontario Museum, where I used to volunteer, this video was way more informative than the information packet we have
I swear one day Ian is going to find a semi automatic cannon from the battle of Hastings or something. Amazing how he keeps finding this cool shit
good one. informative.
looking forward to the later models, in particular Ian talking about the (possibly apocryphal) use of Hall carbine demounted breeches as 'hold out' weapons off post.
First of all thank you Ian for your invaluable contribution to informing and educating on a subject that is more often than not treated for it's wow factor than what it actualy contributed to human history. Just for that you should receive an award or a medal of somekind. I am not a gun enthusiast as some would call it. I am french canadian an as you might know our gun laws are not exacly permissable but I have owned guns in my youth and shot a small variety of them but my true interest in them is in they're contribution to humanity. They're purpose (militarily) is to end lives but couterintuitively they have givin us alot of avancement as you demonstrate in this video and it's that aspect more than anything that interest me. The fact also that you are the real deal and are a true erudite on your subject and are passionate about it is always spellbinding to watch. Again thanks alot for your work and for the rest of the readers of this comment that still reading this, go to Ian's patreon page and contribut, it's realy worth it.
With the breech out kinda looks like a garand. Pretty sweet looking rifle, love shooting flintlocks there is nothing quite like it.
I remember your video on the Hall's carbine.
I have never heard of this man until now or his rifle, supremely impressive and underrated.
Ian thank you so much for all that you do.
I’m from Maine and hadn’t heard about Hall, thanks Ian
Pure genius! You can see the compromises, you can see the forward thinking, it is an amazing piece of craft.
And this example is fantastic! The owner must be very proud.
Fantastic! On top of everything else Mr. Hall was a Mainer.
Simple concept. Flash pan on top is so elementary yet revolutionary. Load just the chamber so the bullet doesn’t get deformed on the way down the rifling. The breech locking lugs are a bit like those volcano pistols, except the chamber moves instead of the lugs. Which is more robust? Faster and more accurate: still the goal of firearms design, right? BRILLIANT!
The concept of machine made interchangeable parts cannot be over-emphasized in terms of importance for the Industrial Revolution. Think of a steam engine.
Thank you Ian from another Mainer.
imagine having to not only keep your powder dry, but having extra pieces of flint trimmed to fit
Flinters keep a 'flint wallet' with spare flints, and potential flints. They also know how to quickly sharpen their flint on the gun.
I can expect ~20 strikes out of a well sharpened flint, but if I do a mediocre job of it I get 5.
It is not much more difficult than fussing around with percussion caps.
@@joejoelesh1197 thanks for the first-hand information. do you knap the flint to create sharpened edge?
Man, Fantastic!
Great old gun, and the whole story made for a very interesting segment! THANKS !
Until I discovered forgotten weapons I thought the definition of gun nut show the picture of me in the dictionary but now I have to concede that the page would have to go 2 Ian Kudos and excellent video
Ian says that the pan sitting on top of the chamber makes ignition more reliable. However, the wisdom at least among modern flintlock shooters is that one should not fill or even cover the traditional vertical touchhole with gunpowder. If done so, at the very least the ignition becomes slow, because the powder filling the vent burns like slow match. Instead, one must use only so much priming powder to keep the touchhole not covered. That way, it's the hot gas from the flash of the priming powder that rushes though the vent and ignites the main charge, quickly and reliably.
That would be so much easier to load than a muzzle loader. You just pour in the powder and then push the ball in with your thumb. No need to use a ramrod at all. Brilliant design.
That's what I'm curious about: do you use a ball that is perfectly sized-- or do you use a slightly oversized ball and cram it down with a ball starter?
A swaged fit would prevent the ball from riding up off the compacted powder charge.
Is this what young Ian was like on Christmas Morning? I'd like to think the energy and excitement is on par.
Hey! The state rifle of West Virginia!
Oh?
This is cool
As always!
Hi, Ian. This is one of my favorite rifles... now. I had no idea that there was breech-loading flintlock. The words just echo down into my mind with uh, wut?? But the actual rifle is beautiful. I even like the flintlock. The off-center sights are, well obviously... But I had never seen a nearly centered location for the lock. Wow, what a great and important rifle. I hope some modelers would make a kit. I would buy one. I would probably like shooting it, but that is never going to happen. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
Watch Ian's vids on the Lorenzoni guns. If you haven't, they'll blow your mind.
Ian, not sure if you pay attention to your channel's analytics and who and what age is watching but i'd like to say: my 7 year old son watches your channel almost every day. Thank you so much for keeping your content family friendly. When he's watching you, or Hicock or Paul Harrell, i don't have to worry about inappropriate things being said/showed. His a little boy that loves guns.
This is officially the coolest gun by the coolest gun maker of all time.
I learned more about this rifle, its history, and the designer in this video than I have from looking it up in any books I could find on it.
This is why I love your channel. Keep up the excellent work, Ian!
As a Marine Corps veteran, that stereotype is 100% accurate.
Three ball bearings come to mind. The Brtish version is the feather and anvil. The Royal Marines were isuued with feathers and anvils. Three days later all the anvils had been brocken with the Fearthers.
Were Crayons available during the 1820s? ;-)
@@shooter2055 hell yeah they were, what do you think we snacked on back then. Green is the best flavor by the way.
@@1804unclesam Thank you for that. Grins are in short supply these days.
you also can fire a smooth bore musket MORE then things with moving parts or rifling. the fouling that comes from many shots can clog up the works and this was a very large fear of armies at the time. That some of these interesting and innovative designs would clog up after hard use.
It is your own enthusiasm, and interest, which makes watching your videos so entertaining.
And it comes across as clear as if you were stopping and saying
"WOW, this is AMAZING ! ! !" like a kid talking about Pokemons.
:D
You are one of the Wonders of the Interwebs, Mr. Thank you so much for so many interesting bits of history.
There are several Hall rifles, tools and parts in the Maine State Museum. I read about this rifle when i was a kid, never knew Hall was from Maine until much later. Great video Ian!
16:30 Nice. Like the old joke that if you lock a Lance Corporal in a closet with an anvil for an hour, by the time you get back, he'll have lost it, broken it, or f***ed it.
A future like construction in the making thank you for the history tour Ian take care
I may be slightly biased with my family name being on the rifle but, that is one dang pretty firearm..
Matthew John Hall here..lol
Any relation?
I can say ditto to the whole sentiment, although my people were originally from Perquimans County, NC and no possible relation. Still, that is one drop dead gorgeous piece of firearms engineering.
If you are related, then our ancestors probably knew each other, I'm related to the founder of the Harper's Ferry Armory.
@@halo7oo I know I have relatives in America going back to before this time period but I don't think I am actually related, never checked..if John Halls' father was from England or Ireland though then it is highly possible..i mainly said it because Hall is a family name going back at least 200 to 400 years on my father's side is all.. English nobility shield is either a singular black dog or three black dogs..
Marine core, eating crayons since 1820s. Deep traditions man.