Selfish Player Ends 20 Year Old Friendship Over My Bedtime | Narrated D&D Story
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Story Source (Reddit): bit.ly/Selfish...
Video Editor: Murtaza Bohari
Editors: Lonny Foran (written4reddit@gmail.com)
Narration: MyLo (Twitter/VoMylo)
Thumbnail Art & Channel Artwork: NalaFontaine (Twitter/@nala_fontaine)
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D&D is the ultimate friend tester. I had a “friend” who would roll their eyes every time something didn’t go their way. It would drive me crazy, because my other players would see it as a challenge. This player would shake their head and complain. I ended up just walking away. I’m DM’ing again with great player.
I would the other ultimate friend tester is Diplomacy!
No so much a tester if you think about maybe a blinder remover? like they get to let their hair down and be who they really are when playing cause its pretend so you see exactly who your friend is for the first time without blinders or them faking themselves to be around you.
@@babygirl123456789gtr i disagree. It can make people nervous to role play etc. But what I'm really trying to say is that the board game Diplomacy is the ultimate friend tester
@@fan-i-am never played diplomacy is it good? Also I can think of another game that is a tester. Almost had a civil war in my family and friend group over monopoly. Now that game will test relationships my brother still won't play it with me anymore.
Wow, this is sad. I see it less as a friendship breaking over a DnD schedule but more about a friendship breaking over one friend trying to better themselves and learning to set healthy boundaries. This hits very hard for me. Ever since I started bettering myself and setting better boundaries, I had friendships break or get strained. It really does show how many of the close relationships we keep are not healthy or straight up toxic and that saddens me a lot.
I hear you. I was in a similar situation, and friendships got strained and broken when I started to learn how to be good to myself. Seems like Druid is learning to be good to himself while Cleric wants to be good to himself but doesn’t know how. Both want their boundaries and themselves to be respected. Druid figured out that he can meet his own needs while Cleric is trying to meet his own needs through Druid.
That "friendship" was doomed. If it wasn't D&D it would have been something else. The minute Druid started thinking for himself the "friendship" that was it. Cleric was a toxic emotional leach
OP is just incredibly selfish ngl. I don't argue about the boundary bit. But the way he goes about it, while victimising himself and the whole "we weren't really real friends and you're just unhappy with family life" spiel just screams incel with major mental issues.
And d&d is an activity that usually takes more than 2 hours, otherwise it'll be extremely rushed and bad, and no dnd is better than bad dnd.
There's no way of justifying this guy. Of he was actually mature, he would just said "Sorry guys, I cannot make my schedule work with d&d anymore so I will leave the group" or something.
Like ultimately everyone even agrees with his time, and he's still resentful and leaves after a couple of months.
Yikes.
"You're not allowed to feel tired, you don't have kids"
I didn't know I wasn't allowed to have aching knees just because some people don't have legs
To be fair they wouldn't have knee pain lol
@@criticalfail1176 bit late but Phantom pain is a real thing
If we are being real though. A guy showing up one day and says "I won't play later than 22 nor discuss it"
That's a pretty shitty move for an activity that does require more than two hours and depend on everyones participation.
It's honestly pretty amazing how quickly bandwagon around OP cause he's victimising himself.
@@Gofex1337 I'm not so much agreeing with OP as I am disagreeing with the argument that having kids somehow invalidates someone else's fatigue.
Sure OP wasn't the most tactful, but Cleric wasn't exactly in the right either when he placed himself above OP just because he had children.
I'm not pro OP, I'm anti Cleric, because the way that guy viewed his friends was shitty.
"I didn't realise that your choice to have kids was my responsibility."
The single hardest thing about playing D&D as an adult is scheduling, and it's baffling that anyone would make such a fuss over accommodating their fellow players. Like, we're all busy, dude. Deal with it.
Yep, my friends and I get together, if we are lucky, every other weekend. Life happens and schedules have to change.
I agree 2 hours of D&D is better than no D&D
It’s not baffling, it’s a red flag that someone is behind on maturity levels.
Yeah, two sessions in a month is in itself a worthy accomplishment.
As a young adult, I don’t have to deal with full on schedule stuff, but the fact that most other games are filled with adults and sessions only start on weekdays has made me hesitate to join my first game of dnd
so i lost a friend of 30 years over him losing his initiative turn in combat, because he would get up, leave the table without saying anything, and go have at least a cigarette (most times 2) and be gone for 15-20 minutes. this happened multiple times a night. after 3-4 weeks of him missing turns, he explodes, saying saying im not welcome at the house we played at (his GF at the time's house, he lived there but wasnt on the lease, and she's been my friend for just as long). when she shot him down over that (she was just as frustrated as the rest of us) he said we could no longer use his miniatures. i shot back if he was so unhappy with the game, he didnt have to play. after a couple weeks of not having him, and using dice as minis, i produced some colored tokens i bought from fantasy flight games. after another couple weeks without him emerging on game night he came out and saw we had stuff for combat again, his face darkened and he went to sulk more.
mind you throughout this month i had tried to make contact several times to clear the air, but it was not to clear at all. he rejoined for another couple games, by that point a friend of his he convinced his gf to let move in cause he lost his place in a very short amount of time (black mold, he had to move out so it could be brought to code again) the friend started playing with us, he felt i replaced him with the friend, and that was that.
this was the man who taught me how to shotgun my first beer, bought me a 30 rack when i turned 21, and were always there for each other.
looking back on it now, i suspect it was the terminal brain cancer he was diagnosed with less than 2 years later that led to his change in attitude and the loss of the friendship. i wish we couldve mended the fence, but it never happened.
OP: "I have boundaries and I wish to take care of my health"
Cleric: And I took that personally
Not weird. Clerics job is taking care of peoples health and the druid was like nope.
Cleric: “All relationships are transactional! That’s why people have them!”
Me: “No a real relationship is based on genuine affection and altruism. Which requires you to act WITHOUT expecting anything in return.”
Cleric: “But… then I don’t personally profit. So what’s the point?”
Seriously, it’s like the Cleric took the basic DND quest structure (pay me for my troubles) and decided to apply that to EVERYTHING in his life.
To be fair, all relationships _are_ transactional. People might not like to think of it that way, but it's the truth. That doesn't make relationships any less important or sincere, though.
@@Greatkingrat88 No, they aren’t.
@@H240909 Yes, they are. Whether people like to admit it or not, people are in relationships- platonic or romantic- to get something out of it. If you have a friend who is all take and no give, he will eventually stop being your friend. You don't get into a relationship unless you get something out of it- satisfaction, joy, pleasure, fulfilment etc- and that is per definition transactional.
@@Greatkingrat88 No, SOME relationships are transactional. The other person is not giving you a sense of fulfillment/joy/satisfaction. You’re giving those feelings to yourself by spending time with a person you care about. The only people call all relationships transactional are selfish people or people who have never been in a worth while relationship.
@@H240909 "You’re giving those feelings to yourself by spending time with a person you care about."
Because they provide some input that makes you care about them. If they didn't, if you didn't get something out of spending time with them, if they didn't provide something worthwhile, you wouldn't hang out with them. You get something out of it, they get something out of it. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging this reality.
2-hours session is too little for me. If my group would go down to it, I would probably leave, and try to find myself another one.
But I would never hold it against them. I have no right to demand their free time for myself.
I remember this story, Cleric seemed very bossy and definitely had gatekeeping energy the way he dismissed OPs reasonable request to step out a smidgen early to get a proper amount of sleep for work/sleep cycle going. It makes me shake my head when some adults who become parents become dismissive of non parents being tired after a hard days work as though it's some weird competition.
Wait, you remember it? Where’d you hear it from first?
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 A few other youtubers had read this story like BearBardTales and Den of the Drake if memory serves me right but the background accompaniment of this video makes it work quite nicely. For context not nitpicking at all as most of the dnd story communities tend to find the most recent to read off and this story is still pretty fresh.
As an adult who has kids, I can understand why this guy became so upset over someone without kids being so picky about things like bed time. I have these prejudices myself, and the way I deal with it is just tuning myself out. I've pushed many friends away mostly because I feel like this guy. "How is life so hard for you when you don't even have kids?" And these thoughts have become so intrusive, to save some people I care about from my stupidity I've chosen to step away from them. It sucks cause it's hard to even talk to some people and it's quite lonely but I figure in a few years when the kids are mostly independent, I'll be able to go back to being more social.
@@ethanrivers4057 Perhaps it would be helpful to think of other people like characters in a game?
Imagine that you're playing a game with Action Points. Different classes/characters have a different number of action points to spend per day before they need to rest and recuperate. Some folks have more, some have less.
Being a parent takes action points to do, yes... but you have no idea how many action points you started with compared to someone else. If an average single-person's day takes 20 points, and being a parent takes 30, but you've got 35 action points and they only have 18, then in the action point economy, even with more on your board, you're better off than the other person. The same can be said even if you've got 35 and they've got 22, or you've got 30 and they've only got 20: they're making it, but just, despite having a lower load than you have.
This is even more complicated by the fact that the same actions don't cost everyone the same number of points. Something simple -- like talking to another person -- might cost you 1 point, but cost them 3. Going to work might be an 8 point task for you, but 12 for them, and it has nothing to do with the physical or mental strain, but the emotional strain it puts on that person.
I'm saying all this as a very low action point person. And, heck, I know a lot of low action point parents too: they put everything they have into raising their kids, and have no energy after for anything else.
Perhaps it's due to good management, perhaps it's due to force of will, perhaps it's sacrifices... but you have enough Action Points available to be a functional adult, a parent, AND play a social game. That's fantastic, and something to be proud of. But that doesn't mean that other people have the same luxury, or can or will make cuts in the same places.
If it takes 20 points to Functional Adult, and I have 18, and I want to spare 2 points to play a game, where do I make cuts? Personal hygiene? Self-care? Work efficiency? How much does any 1 of those actions save me in points, and how many can I give up before I'm no longer functioning at all?
It can be tough sometimes to see past our own struggles and/or strengths to accept -- not even recognize, simply accept -- that not everyone else can do what we can, and accept that that says good about us without saying anything bad about them.
It's good that you fight these feelings, because they're toxic, not just for your relationships with others, but your opinion of yourself too.
@@guerillagrueplays6301 Thank you for putting it so clearly and gently.
I worked third shift for a time, and most of the others in my building were mothers with school aged children. They would work all night, prep things for school, take the kids to school, run errands, sleep for a few hours, pick the kids up, and then be awake until work started. Meantime, I was never safe to drive or work on less than five mostly solid hours' sleep, and was better at keeping up and getting things done the closer that number was to eight or even nine. My room didn't get a shred of sunlight for a couple years, because even a little was disruptive. I was always impressed (and mildly concerned) at how they were able to get so much done with so little resources, but they never did anything to try to make me feel bad about the fact that I had different needs and tolerances than them. (My line leader had a similar reaction to me when I explained that I just...didn't eat chocolate, even on the weekends, because I couldn't have it during the week and if I just never had it, then I'd never want it.)
Dnd reveals A LOT about a person. I used to have almost zero self confidence and didn't see myself as pretty. I played a lot of seductress types (all pg) but now I'm older and my confidence has... shifted? I went to bars, got hit on a lot (nothing more as I was engaged), made friends and got the confidence boost but that confidence went away after gyms closing down and now that I'm a mom I feel like everyone sees me as a mom first. Now my characters are a little more wild rogue/druid.
Sometimes the reflection is harmless but sometimes it shows a deeper darkness. Like I've heard of horror stories where in game unrequited romance behavior started translating outside of the game as stalking. Typically you just end up with an incredibly controlling person though. I'm in a game that currently has one person who could be respected as a leader, 2 outsiders who are the only ones making smart decisions, a stereotypical bard (idk her actual class) but dear God, a guy who's rp is amazing, and one guy who wants to be the main character so badly he metagames. This last guy of course is never at fault when things fall apart because "if the dice rolls", "if you had saved my other character" which is really if he hadn't drawn the Void Card, and my favorite "of you had just followed my plan" when he bolted and never gave one.
My group used to get together 3 weekends out of 4. Then I had to change jobs and only had every other weekend off. Everyone was happy, as far as I know, to change to the every other weekend schedule because their lives are hectic too. I'm lucky that I have good friends.
It is not a matte of guilt, when people never had to endure & handle all the toxic issues that befell roleplay (if not society). Be happy, you seem to make something right.
This story hit home hard for me.
Had a long game and friendship end after we realized the DM was a manipulative d!
This seems nuanced to me. I know generally we side with the story teller, but I do see some issues here. If you can’t make a DnD game for bed time or other change in schedule/habits, you really should discuss with your group. It’s not that you owe them an explanation or control of your choice, just it’s considerate to maybe switch times or maybe you need to drop the hobby if it’s best for you and you don’t hold them back.
As for getting what you put into a friendship, no I get that. If you’ve ever had that friend that always needs a ride and never helps with gas. Never pitched in for food cause they are “broke” but show off that sweet new box of cards they got, or always needs you to do them a solid but is never there for you, you know what someone not putting effort into a friendship is like. That might not necessarily be the author, but he doesn’t really describe the rest of his friendship outside of DnD either.
Would say everyone probably has some fault in here more than likely, but the friendship ending was probably best for everyone to be happier. TLDR over lol
Finally, a sane person in a comments section.
I had friendships end over D&D, too. It revealed to me that those "friends" and I were never really compatible to begin with. It also opened my eyes to a lot of flaws in those friends I ignored for years. I'm a lot better off now.
In my opinion, D&D magnifies what's already there. If it's a great relationship, D&D strengthens it. If there's negativity, D&D brings it all to the forefront so the negativity and problems are made glaringly obvious and undeniable.
Perhaps D&D--or TTRPGs in general--should be used by psychologists to help their patients.
Well put
I have a friend like this and once we start playing dnd I realized the friend wasn't really a good friend, because I couldn't change my schedule or reorganize things for them.
How the f*cl is the cleric married with that personality?
He sounds like the type of parent who thinks their kids owes them once their kids turns 18
Cleric really needs a therapist themselves...
The cleric would not make it in the campaign I am playing in. We have a flexible start time and if someone needs to go to bed and enough people want to keep playing he fills out the party with NPCs. People who whine over stupid stuff and harass other players over their bed time get kicked and banned.
As someone who has to get up at 6am to walk my child to her school bus stop. I sympathize more with druid than with cleric.
@@NessaEllenesse agreed - as a parent of a toddler, im appalled at what sounds like cleric not only toxically treating relationships (which require trust and understanding) as a business trade/expecting 'something owed' but also *Using his kids as an excuse to be entitled*.
"He has everything he wanted out of life and is still un-happy and can't understand why" YIKES!!! Such a revelation! And teaching moment! This is true for so many. They get everything they "think" they want...and are un-happy. Why? Because what they THINK they want really isn't what they wanted at all! It's what society told them they should want and have! Only for them to become "stuck" in that...and take it out on those of us who didn't "buy" into it! I get that from family members too "Oh well you don't have kids so why are you tired?" Okay so because I didn't choose to have kids at 20 or younger I'm not as important as you? Bite me!
Yeah the Cleric is being selfish, but so is the OP. If there's a group running for 4 hours and you don't wanna run for two hours, just say you're dropping out due to scheduling issues.
Don't be That Guy who wants to be included but leaves halfway through every session, forcing the DM to explain your absense, or take over playing your character, spend 20 minutes explaining what happened while you were gone every session, etc. Thai is just as selfish as the cleric, you are wasting everyone else's time and ruining their experience.
Also, while cleric's views were rather confused and twisted, relationships ARE transactional, and OP even proves that he believes this. If it were not true, he would have continued being part of their group and submitted to their demands. Instead, he felt like cleric was *asking too much from him*, and stood up for himself. That is the right thing to do, and is also transactional relationship thinking.
What a lot of people missed her is it wasn't just the druid who wanted to called at 10pm, but the other to players decided they didn't want to play passed 10 either and evidently were getting tired as well.
@@NessaEllenesse Not until after druid announced it, and if I were in a game where someone announced they were going to leave after 2 hours every session, I wouldn't really be interested in playing without them the rest of the time either. There's no reason to assume that the reason for their behavior was that they agreed with druid.
@@NessaEllenesse was it because they were getting tired or was it because they didn't see the point in only playing 2 hours so they decided to agree and go along with it
Depending on the group it is very possible that nothing actually gets done in the span of 2 hours
@@zombieslayer2016 We're just really getting into it after two hours. That's how its been for every group I've been in since the 80s. if we can get only two hours we just skip it that time.
You'll find that there are people who are friends with because you don't have boundaries. They take advantage of you, possibly unknowingly on their part. But regardless, they will get angry, and may end the friendship. But just realize, it is necessary and you will make friends with shared boundaries. It's tough, and I'm still working on it myself too.
The way that i see it, they both are right and wrong about different things. Cleric is certainly more pushy than he should be for sure and OP has a legitimate and valid reason for setting the boundary he has. However, Cleric isn't wrong in his initial reaction either. OP basically said, the day before the session mind you, that "our D&D sessions are going to be shorter now because i said so".
It's good to have boundaries, It's another thing to point blank thrust boundaries that affect others onto other people out of nowhere. Instead of just going "Hey guys, i'm done at 10pm, that's it. Period." He should have led with "This is how this is affecting me, do you think we could end the session a little earlier? If no, then i am not sure i'll be able to continue like this." From there, it would be a discussion with the whole group deciding that yes we'll make this accommodation for you or he could decide if the game is still right for him or not. There may still be some animosity involved this way, but i guarantee you that it wouldn't have been as blown out of proportion if OP had been a little more considerate of the fact that he isn't just affecting himself with this decision.
Valid, but also missing part of the point that the *reason* the OP put this particular boundary in place was because they felt it was one that would likely not be controversial in the first place, and they need to learn to set boundaries in their life. Tact is something that comes with skill, and frankly, setting one's boundaries is important enough that it's reasonable to focus on the setting the boundary part first and the tact part second. What would have happened, in the case you mention, is almost inevitably that the others would have ignored the OP's request, because they've always acquiesced to others in the past, and nothing would have changed.
the OP would have continued to suffer from lack of sleep, AND not done anything to help improve their mental health (which, the sleep probably wasn't helping with either.)
Likewise, if the entire group was willing to accommodate someone whose personal life required not playing until after X time -- regardless of what they might be doing in their own life to make that work -- then it's not unreasonable for the OP to expect the group to also be willing to work with them to accommodate theirs, especially when that accommodation in no way interferes with the requirements for someone else. Carving out 2 hours for a session IRL is already having more availability than most folks can manage, and depending on when they work/what other responsibilities the OP has, a 10 PM cut-off time is still likely to barely be giving them an 8 hour sleep period.
*shrug*
I feel like, in this case, the OP handled the situation the way they NEEDED to handle it, even if it wasn't the most tactful way. Learning to set boundaries in their life is more important than a game, or even friendships if those friendships are contingent on them being a pushover.
Wow okay halfway through this I was like okay this is a little unreasonable but as I listen more wow. As it goes farther the author gets more bitter and bitter and outright disrespectful of cleric. I think that's a huge tell. Yes having boundaries is healthy. But also scheduling something like a did session is very difficult between so many people who have busy lives and setting aside 3-4 hours or sometimes even more is really difficult and yes even more so as a parent. You have a variable in the equation. You can't just think of work and responsibilities and other hobbies. There is a God damn uncontrollable person with their own mind and schedule that usually doesn't match yours. This happens personally to me in my games and upon a vote of what time slot worked best for everyone the DM picked the one that passed everyone off the least because that's when it worked the best. So yes sometimes mid session I am forced to leave my PC and ask the dm to act for me while I take the drive to pick him up from his mom. I am still on the call though and have to ask the dm to roll for me. It was the best way we could all compromise to find a good chunk of time to play and honestly 2 hour sessions would be soooo short. Like our last 4 our session we didn't even finish a cave.
@@guerillagrueplays6301 I'm not going to say your wrong. You also make a valid point in that they were trying to learn to stand up for themselves. But if he had presented it in the way i described it and his friends ignored him like you said they would be likely to do, then he could have just said "Well that's unfortunate. Hope you guys have fun but i wont be able to continue beyond this point." And then worked with the DM so that their character had a reasonable and satisfying exit from the story in the next session.
Doing it this way would be way less likely to burn any bridges.
@@Zarkonem Correct. But every step of what you describe is paths upon paths upon paths to just giving in to their innate urge to acquiesce, which is the part I'm saying you're missing.
They needed to make a decision and stick to it, and be assertive about it as part of their personal growth, something they struggled with constantly due to feeling the need to cater to others.
Is this the best place or way to do it? I agree, 100 percent not. But telling someone struggling with their own assertiveness and value that they need to be less assertive and value themselves less... is very counterproductive.
@@guerillagrueplays6301 I'm not saying they need to be less assertive, just that you can be assertive without being a dick to everyone else in your group.
Cleric: I can't play before 8.
OP: I can't play after 10.
Cleric: WHY YOU GOTTA BE LIKE THIS? CAN'T YOU THINK ABOUT MY NEEDS?! WHY DOESN'T ANYONE CARE WHAT I THINK?!
I’m currently in a group of 7 players doing the Temple of Elemental Evil. On multiple sessions, one or more players are absent (including myself, twice).
If outside, our DM claims the character has wandered off, to do something alone.
If indoors, the missing player(s) are assumed to be “guarding the rear”.
[We even have a player who works for 911. He pulls double shifts often and has to leave early for sleeping reasons. Like the OP ]
This was set up in session 0.
Everyone knows about it. Everyone deals with it.
Nah. That’s a toxic “friendship”. Good for OP for standing up for himself.
As someone who struggles with a good night's sleep and anxiety over that, good grief do I sympathize with the OP. Sleep is never something you take for granted and good grief do I want to smack Cleric here.
I've met and befriended people through D&D, but other friendships and even mutual friendships have been tested over it as well. It's a social endeavor and, if you have character flaws that put strain on social interaction (narcissism, self-entitlement, general inflexibility, a habit of gaslighting, etc), it's going to be a bumpy ride. Most players have at least one *that guy/gal* story. Sometimes you're it for someone else.
This OP really missed a opportunity to grow, both sides lost in this exchange
Imagine being a parent and NOT wanting to go to sleep.
Two sides to every story. If someone just came in and said this is what im doing end of discussion that can be a bit abrasive.
I think approach and tone goes a long ways both sides need to be willing to make sacrifices.
Relationships are hard but are worth it.
Tell me you don't want your kids without actually telling me
To an extent cleric is right about energy in energy out. Giving to much and not being reciprocated is just being used and is very unhealthy. That said cleric took it to toxic levels.
Op yta, boundaries are good but this one is just bizarre. In the middles or a game with multiple sessions in you decide to stop playing the agreed time multiple people agreed to. Just leave the game and find a new group that could work with your schedule.
I've always been very bad about setting boundries for myself and have only recently in my life began setting some for myself and standing firmer on them
I cannot believe that this was such a rant about telling people that I'm quitting an hour early. Just state your boundary & leave it at that, if people do not like your boundries just move on without them.
The main issue with the cleric guy's argument of how relationships are give-and-take is that not only did he take that to a reductive, literal meaning, but that even if that's the case, he's speaking of it as if everyone had the exact same amount of energy, as if everyone had the same needs, as if every action amounted the same and didn't complicate any further, as if anything you did had a net value that was to be processed the same and all actions didn't interact or resonate with eachother and varied depending on the person, it was a completely self-centered line of thought that placed him as the default, the perfect judge that could decide what was and wasn't a worthwhile interaction, it's a reductive view born out of a selfish, single-minded desire to satisfy himself and himself only, he's a fundamentalist materialist, he ignores the nuances of life and expects everything to just click together.
Everybody stood up and clapped.
One even did a backflip.
If all of that is true, then shame on that cleric.
Also if all of that is true, i'll eat my keyboard with a fork.
Yeah that's a friend I'm glad to say see ya don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Cleric is a narcissist, or at least has some major narcissistic tendencies. The whole “what about me?” and trying to compare someone else’s woes to their own is something to take note of, but the thing that really caught my attention is this idea that they see relationships as a hierarchy with “energy in and energy out”. Narcissists often see relationships (friendship, family, etc) as transactional, rather than just something normal where you do something for someone without expecting something in return because you genuinely like that person. I already feel bad for their kids and spouse, cause those people are going to get it too.
It.
Is.
Just.
A.
Game.
God.
Damn.
It.
2 hours is enough D&D...? HERESY...
I wasn't sure I could take anything serious after that. Two hours is enough??? I wouldn't even consider playing in a game if the sessions weren't expected to be 4+ hours.
Honestly both people sound like bad friends, this is the best outcome for both.
I was playing a 1-off campaign as a lvl 3 moon druid shifter with a couple strangers at a hobby shop (lvl 5 rogue who'd bought a pet ankylosaurus at the start of the session, lvl 3 land druid who bought a giant lizard at start of session, and lvl 3 sorcerer). After doing a small optional fight against some zombies in a jungle of Cult and having a long rest, we were supposed to be scared off by a zombie T-rex (CR-8) and run to the other side of the map where we would be saved by some arakockra and continue the quest he had planned out... I convinced the party to kill the T-Rex and we actually succeeded. We all got a level up, but no loot because we didnt complete the mission we were supposed to. Made 3 new friends that day
While it wasn’t through D&D, I had a friendship end through gaming in general. Same situation here really, the other person more and more clearly quantified friendship through give and take transactions and always tipped the scales their way. Not necessarily happy it’s gone, but I’m relieved dealing with the stress it caused is over.
Friendship isn’t a transaction. Sometimes one person will get more out of a friendship than the other. That’s perfectly okay. As long as you both enjoy the time you spend together, it shouldn’t matter.
I dunno. If you told me that with one nights notice I’d be pissed. Sometimes when people finally decide to stand up for themselves they take a very hard uncompromising line.
2 hours is a very short amount of time to play dnd, to be fair, I wouldn't even bother with games that short.
This actually sounds like someone I knew who wanted to be an RP partner online. It ended in less than a month because They wanted super long sessions on a set schedule. I told them I couldn't do an exact schedule and had to end by a certain time to get enough sleep for work the next day. Their last attempt to get me to see why it was important involved them complaining about way too much info on their life.
As for changing more long term friendships I had someone who I found out kept trying to put very questionable morals in a world not as a story element, but because that's how they actually believe and wanted to explore it in game sense they couldn't in the real world. Made RPing with them too uncomfortable and actually haven't even hung out with them in months due to that confession.
We all have stories like this. For me an encounter like this was an eye-opener. I was a part of D&D group where the DM was alright. He was my re-introduction to D&D. Me being young and easily excitable invited some of my friends over: Friend A and B. both I knew from the web. Friend A was a long time pal of mine. What started as duo of buddies, became almost a brotherhood. The best description of him i can think of is "A troll who doesn't know where to stop, but means well." Friend B was also friend of mine for a while, we played storytelling rolelplay for a wihle, figured she might enjoy the group.
Friend A joined a session here and there, but later just rolled a Nat 1 on life and couldn't play anymore, while Friend B was taking in the group pretty well. For a while everything went alright, i met a few more buddies in form of a Friend C - a rather seasoned rpg player and Friend D - a newbie who just wanted to have fun and figure what the deal was. They are important to the story.
One day DM introduces his female friend, who gets along with Friend B and that's where Red Flags started popping up. Friend C had grievances about DM ignoring anything he does in one of the campaigns, how he often AFK's for no reason, expecitng us to fill out the time. I foolishly hoped it was just matter of communication, but there was no improvment. Friend D joined a game of Call of Cthulu with Friend B and i often heard stories, from which the conclusion was: "a msytery and horror turned into comedy and romance". Then i Joined a warhammer one-shot with Friend B. It became a disaster that turned me off from the system altogether. My character couldn't do a thing, was constantly mocked by Friend B and got one cool action at the end.
It became apparent that the DM was catering more to the female players (except for Friend D), but so far only me, Friend C and friend D were the ones having issues, so we kept quiet in public, but often vented in secret about the situation. Then one Day, Friend A returns, he still joins sessions at random, but he is more present. He was the catalyst for what became my Exile from the group. He heard about our complaints and after getting severly drunk, he called out Friend B on her BS, calling us out as proof. We got called by the DM and the cat was out of the bag. Every little complain we had was spilled out. Friend B was appalled, shocked and outraged. The DM never addressed his faults and it was at this moment I decided, I'm bettter off without this group. So i burned all the bridges, I flipped off ex-friend B and left the server, getting some last-time bitter messages from Friend B and the DM. Everyone was at fault, Me probably more than others, but in the end It worked for the best.
The event became a catharsis in many ways. Friend A started to better himself after feeling guilty for basically throwing us under the bus without our knowledge. I started to DM for Friend C and D and we had our own fair share of adventures, as we started to learn more about D&D.
honestly in this story absolutely nobody comes out looking like a good person because everybody made arbitrary boundaries for themselves and the minute you become inflexible is the moment any friendship is almost impossible
If I had to pick a good guy I'd say OP is in the right. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having and setting boundaries. Especially if said boundaries are supposed to help/maintain your physical health. There's nothing more important than taking care of your body. I once played in a 5e game where the sessions would run 8 hours on average. 7pm to 3am. For a while I sucked it up and powered through because these were my friends I'd regularly played D&D with for years. But when it started affecting my physical and mental health, and affect me at my job, I told them I wasn't going to play more than three or four hours going forward.
Without your needs met? Theyve been accomodating YOUR kids bedtime the entire time
OP is a doormat, telling the group with one days notice that we're cutting the sessions down by at least 50% is selfish and entitled. If you're circumstances change you should just leave the campaign or discuss with the DM privetly. Im glad OP decided to cut them out they're better off without him.
I mean I agree with cleric 2 hours isn't long enough to get anything done. But other than that I'm with OP
Self-care and real-life (especially if a parent) > any game, any RP.
Take care of yourself and do not let anyone rob you of this golden frikkin' rule that *everyone seems to have forgotten or has never been told wtf*
Cleric needs to chill and find friends that make them feel valued, because they are clearly acting out of bitterness that has probably been building for years.
The "I,"can never be happy. Why not at Ten try to wrap things up, but no later than 11??? Barter with two backing you this is a must.
So I can understand wanting to play more than 4 hrs. If you have 4 or more players that is not enough time to get jack done.
Friendship was about give and take, but what was the Cleric giving the Druid? The group was already giving the Cleric a concession by starting when he wants to and no earlier, and he isn't really giving one of his own. Entitled S.O.B that guy was.
truthfully the druid and the cleric BOTH sound like they have issues outside of whats being told. The talk "shit about him behind his back" part from the druid makes me take the story told from that perspective (druid) suspect, and to myself it seems at best a half truth.
Okay, let's all make constitution checks to see if we survive how toxic this group of "friends" are.
oh lord cleric is not only a tool but the only tool shed and the warehouse they are made at. no sympathy for that guy.
My group usually starts between 7:30p-8p every Saturday unless more than 3 people (it’s a group of 7-9 players depending on the campaign being run for the week we run 3 campaigns with 3 dms) we typically go til between 11:30p-1:30am depending on the story being covered and dm/ party energy. My nights when I dm tend to end earlier where as my friends campaign often goes til nearly 1am though once he and I both had our campaigns go until 2:30am…..
Ya 2hrs isint rlly enough to get stuff done in DND but that doesn't give anyone the right to pretty much demand u play longer. If the dm has a problem with it he should just tell the poster maybe it's best he doesn't play or the dm can come up with a reason that the poster can leave early. Sounds like cleric is just childish and controlling.
See, all the friends I've lost weren't lost in DnD. I played DnD with some of them, and we stopped being friends, but it was always for something else. I had one former friend call me a "filthy capitalist pig", and- no lie- tell me that "Just because I blocked you on everything and called you a filthy capitalist pig doesn't mean I don't wanna be friends. But since you wanna be an asshole to me, I guess that's it then.."
What I've learned here is that some of my friends aren't very good friends, and are even worse players.
Honestly, i dont think OP is wrong, maybe he simply doesn't have the time. But if I'm going to the movies with a friend and one guy goes like "I'm only going to be available from 8 to 10 because I've been weak-minded in the past, so we all need to leave the cinemas abruptly at 10 sharp"
I am going to let that guy go, cause the movie starts at 8.15 and has more than 1h and 45 minutes of runtime.
Hum… yeah the cleric sounded like a person nobody’s wants to be friends with, and acted terribly, but I find OP extremely presumptuous and selfish too.
Not for stating boundaries, but for changing behavior from one day to the next and expecting nothing to change, and acting like it only affects them and not the whole group.
His ending statement « I’m thinking about me, my X, my Y, my Z », plus the fact he abandoned the rest of their friends and the game without even wondering how they would feel about it and affect their friendship, and saw ZERO issues with this 180 behavior feels like they are just as self centered as the cleric, just in the opposite side of the Ego scale than him.
Gosh I got amazing friends
My best friend is our dm, we have accommodated every party member at one point or another. Putting a full stop on campaigns because pregnancy, moving, work etc. We just don't game and we hang out
I love the animations.
I really appreciate this story, thank you.
I mean, the DMs advice at the end seemed neutral of course we weren't there and these stories can only expand so much. But he wasn't exactly wrong. Perhaps he said it in such a way to take the side of Cleric idk.
*edit tldr at the bottom if u don't want to look through the mind dump and if ur gonna reply read everything :) everyone is entitled to an opinion so idc abt an argument so long as u r nice bout it, also if i come across mean i don't mean it, just the way i type and too many cod 2 lobby's full of children
bro 2 hours is perfectly fine as a time, unless it's some special moment things can be confined to a 2 hour schedule. my friends do 2 hrs a week and our sessions hella fun and the time restriction actually leaves the desire to want to play more and always leaves us hyped for the next session and this campaign is just for fun, there is a story to it but our dm just lets us do what we want and has that stuff happen in the background for when we just so happen to be fighting dragon in a random dungeon we found. it's understandable if yo wish to play more but when a person is setting boundaries that everyone else agrees with, sometimes it's just better to sit back and go with it and + if you really don't think it's enough time then you can think of it as a side campaign and just go do another one that has longer sessions, sure it is not as easy as said but sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone to do what you love or what makes you happy, so don't try and force something the others are very obviously already leaning to one side with, suck it up and just find another game and if you can't bring it up in a nice way how you'd like to compromise for more time in nice way or just simply ask "would you mind pushing it back to 11?" because then they will prob e more willing explain the reasoning behind their schedule, and if you r not happy with the reply but the others seem to be fine then just kindly leave the group scheduling is the most chaotic part for everyone in D&D and not everyone has freetime around the time you do so compromise as best you can and if it doesn't work for you then just simply leave since u can't see eye to eye with said group. I don't think the guy who ended the friendship is necessarily in the wrong he didn't understand his situation but did kinda b a ding dong about it if he had gone about it more calmly and less selfishly the outcome probably would've been much nicer and different but no one is perfect and he made a mistake that he probably learned nothing from
TLDR: if u don't mesh with ur group and can't compromise then find ppl you mesh with instead of seeming toxic, scheduling is hard and sometimes people make decisions that you don't know what drives them that's just what makes being an adult annoying, schedules and balancing healthy decisions i don't think the guy was entirely wrong just went about the whole situation wrong and screwed up and probably didn't learn his lesson
i also left out a few bits about the later sections but in sum i mean he was not wrong at first but his belief that he was right and the way he twisted things was what i meant by he went about it all wrong just felt i'd add that so no one would say i didn't watch, his wanting to play more was reasonable but his actions leading afterwards were just.... not it chief
i wrote this as if i was addressing the "that guy" of this story because it was easier for me to get my point across and i end up watching these and wanting to type something but end up deleting it so i just decided today was the day i finally actually post and make anyone who knows an ounce of grammar really mad lol and kinda just wrote anything that came to mind so srry if i repeat sometimes just really bored and felt like doing a mind dump since it's always racing also if some letters are missing that's cuz my keyboard sucks booty
You knew them for 20 years and just learned all that stuff? Gotta be to wrapped up in yourself not to learn who a friend is. Compares life to Disney movies, no I'm sure there not selfish at all, telling the story in their point of view, then proceeds with a lack of empthy, lol its always good when oneside says," I'm completely right".
No wonder the players alone, a hypocrite, selfish individual.
Cleric lost nothing.
Op lost two friends. Op deserves to be alone.
He has everything he wants and is unhappy. Could it be, because he views relationships as transactional?
The part that really bugs me is that op is totally in denial about the possibility of doing something wrong.
And boy he did.
He set a boundary, wich is good, but at the wrong time and in the wrong way. But that's human.
The main point is: He put a boundary not only on himself, but on the others as well. He didn't even ask if it would be a problem or offer to leave the game. No, he full on expected it to be accepted.
And let's be honest, I wouldn't hold a night free for 2 hours. But as Dm? I wouldn't even consider it.
Yeah, Cleric was kinda a dick, but OP was def. the Catalyst.
While OP could have timed that announcement better (I probably would've informed the DM before the table even gathered), I still consider Cleric the worst of the two problems since he acted like OP hit the Pentagon over a simple (if, again, announced at the wrong time) schedule change.
I think cleric has a good point 2 hours of dnd a fortnight is very short particularly if this as his escape. Both went about it wrong, it should have been a compromise the whole time. Maybe start 30 earlier n finish 30 later. Also we've only got OPs word that he's a people pleaser despite him doing the opposite (I get he's working on it n that's why but still). Yeah 2 hours every 14 days.. what's the point
DM should have just asked op to leave the game. If they had already agreed on a time and schedule that they were already playing on and Druid could no longer accommodate that while everyone else could then the game is no longer for them. Which is fine. It happens. 3-4 hours every two weeks is not a ridiculous request. Especially if it’s been already discussed by the group. And if you can’t accommodate that then you need to step out. Honestly Druid saying “I’m done at ten and y’all can do what you want” is disrespectful to the entire table. The players are attempting to achieve things while the dm who puts a lot of work into sessions gets thrown askew when you just up and say I’m done at a certain time. If you’re in the middle of combat or something important story wise and you just leave it throws off everything. So even though Druid wanted to call cleric a selfish child for not getting their way I think it’s the complete opposite especially with how much effort was put into making cleric sound like the bad guy by bringing up past grievances Druid had with them. If what cleric was being written to say was true they’re in the wrong too in some ways because them having kids doesn’t dictate others lives but you all agreed to a start time at the beginning together. And again 3-4 hours one night twice a month is not unreasonable. If you have to take an entire weekend to recover from one 12 o’clock night then Find a group that plays more according to your schedule that won’t be hindered because you wanna leave. If two hours of dnd is enough for you then find a group that accommodates that. If that’s even possible.
It was foolish to end a friendship over this, they were just incompatable DND players. I can't RP with some of my friends because our style of play is vastly different and we enjoy things differently to a point we don't enjoy eachother's campaigns. We just moved to different groups and do non dnd stuff together we still enjoy.
Good on you. Stand up for yourself. I'd game with you brodie
I once had a friend back in elementary school that was ... self-centered. Not sure if the point of being narcissistic because I am not a psychologist. That friend would constantly use their own point of view for every interaction. One example is "I made a joke. It is your fault for overreacting." (when doing something rude) and, "I thought it was funny to me" (in reply when the victim didn't think it was funny).
Funny enough, I stopped being their friend a long time ago. But they still believed that I was their friend until I "betrayed" them in their time of need.
Both cleric and druid have issues -- cleric more so, but druid too.
Heard this story on another DnD storytelling channel, think it was Crispy's Tavern. Being relatively new to DnD I never experienced what goes on in most of these stories especially those involving friends and family and gf's. But I can definitely relate to friendships being harder to keep the older we get
Cleric was right
You can be right but still be an asshole at the same time which is precisely what cleric ended up being
That being said Op did kind of just waltz in say I'm only participating in two hours of the session end of discussion
It’s not just cleric that’s the issue they both are extremely toxic! It’s so obvious that playing D&D means a lot to cleric and it’s probably one of the few things he can do that is just for him since he’s a parent. It’s good that OP is standing up from himself but he’s also being selfish himself in the situation. Like cleric said it’s just what OP wants and if he doesn’t want to do it, he’s not going to, even if it’s something for his friends. Being a friend means sometimes you do things you don’t want to because it’ll make your friends happy. “He expects the D&D party to be his life preserver”. Like OP is supposed to be his friend, friends are supposed to support each other. So yes he should expect his friend to be there for him. Also this story screams half truth. It’s obvious that OP is making himself look like the victim while making cleric look like an awful person and the fact that the DM said relationships are about give and take and compromise show that OP wasn’t completely the victim and he was probably being completely uncompromising expecting others to be understand of his problems while at the same time lessening cleric’s problems.
Honestly, Cleric turned out to be kinda toxic, but were 100% in the right at the start.
OP basically declared 'I'm leaving halfway through the session, don't care about how this will screw things up for the rest of you, the end'.
OP picked the wrong boundary and the wrong hill to die on. If you want to go to bed early, that's fine, but if you're doing a late night activity, you either plan around it to the best of your ability (power nap before you start etc.) or just stay up a bit later that day.
I feel like a lot of people are glossing over the fact that druid decided to enact this boundary the day before the session was supposed to happen
Because fuck the DM and any plans he might have had that could have required the full party or any role-play moments the DM might have had planned with druid in mind
Don't get me wrong the cleric was still an ass but Op definitely isn't innocent here
By all means good on them for having boundaries but they need to realize that boundary isn't just affecting them
Yeah no, I’m on clerics side. If you can’t be bothered to stay up a little later once every two weeks, why do you even bother coming?
If this Cleric thinks this Druid is doing something wrong by going to bed early than he would HATE me. Since I have to use a c-pap machine at night and have several disabilities that make it hard for me to stay awake for too long. Also this Cleric needs a therapist and a good slap of reality across the face. Also good for you for standing up for yourself I really hope you are getting more sleep and are doing better.
This situation is so familiar and relatable haha
Well that was cringe.
Friendships are not a give & take. They just are.
It disgusts me immediately when people try to rationalize them at all.
It is, how i learned that I have only limited capacity for friendship & real relationships. Friends are more than useful assets can ever be, those of us, who outlived friends, will understand. 🤔
Partnerships are give and take. Friendships are non-transactional.
I think this is on the speaker he was deliberately being obtuse and changing his mannerisms way too quickly, he doesn’t share any point of validity and acts the entire time like himself a victim. Classic projection he sees himself as a victim because. Someone wasn’t happy about him changing the schedule to fit a personal need that isn’t valid.(I don’t think 1 hour of extra sleep will make a difference genuinely is just being obtuse)
OP, druid, did spring that on the group last minute. Could have brought it up any time other than right before the parent has their blissful escapism session.
Ok so, in a way cleric is right. Relationships are supposed to be give and take, HOWEVER the important point he's missing is that you don't go base your relationships around that. A relationship between two ppl can be a variety of things, business relationship, sexual relationship, romantic relationship, or more commonly a friendship. While all types differ this was more a problem where cleric seems to see most of not all relationships as business relationships, or purely give and take, whereas they were supposed to be friends, and a friendship is not based solely on give and take but more on the emotional ties you have to one another, yes you should keep some amount of give and take, after all of only one person gives and the other just takes it's less a friendship and more one taking advantage of the other, however in a friendship you sometimes wave these types of things away because you are supposed to care for the other person. And that is where cleric went so, so wrong.
You're completely right, relationships are about giving and taking, but keeping score of the amount you and the other person give and take is just not the basis for a healthy and long standing relationship. In any relationship people **will** disagree and while the DM was right about compromising in such situations where there is a disagreement between friends, the OP shouldn't have to compromise in this situation.
While I do think he should have discussed it a bit with his group like "Hey guys, I've been feeling really exhausted for several days after every session and I'd prefer to stop at 10pm with DnD to get some more rest if that's alright" or something like that.
Besides Cleric could have simply talked about finding a solution, like maybe going from bi-weekly to weekly 2 hour sessions or something like that, but no he was acting as a spoiled child that didn't get his way and it was pretty much his way or the highway.
which is why I am convinced OP is in the wrong. If I get the impression he is messing up the whole situation while listening HIS side of the story, I wonder what I would learn by hearing what Cleric or DM would tell me.
This one definitely gave me a lot to think about...
I mean, both are in the wrong. You can't just say a day before the session "The session is an hour shorter because I said so" and cleric's initial reaction was in the right. Op is just lucky that the other players agreed with them and cleric actually turned out to be a bad friend.
It wasnt "everyone is going lights out when i do!" it was "yo, imma dip out at 10, dont let me be a bother, yall can keep playing." Yes, it was the day before, but op wasnt the dm, so him calling it a night doesnt force everyone else to call it a night.
@@BlazingKhioneus that's really not how D&D works tho in order to accommodate one person leaving and in this case it wasn't just one person you essentially are ending the game for the night
@@BlazingKhioneus Dnd doesn't really work like that sometimes, like what if the party is in the middle of exploration or in a dungeon and then it hits 10 and Op is just like well it's 10 I'm going to bed, then people would have a right to be mad and you basically ended the session no matter what you say.
I think both where acting like children. You don't just out of the blue dictate to others what the group is to do. You bring up the subject and ask others their opinion.
I was in a campaign where everyone could not agree on how long the game should go for. I wanted to play for at least 6 hours every week, what I really wanted was 8 to 10 hours each game once a week, where others wanted to limit it to two to three hours once a month. After talking it out with the entire group it was settled at 4 hours every other week. The game lasted about 9 months where everyone but two players quit within 2 weeks, some for personal reasons others just out of the blue with no explanation.
I'm now thinking of hiring a DM to run a one on one game for me. I would be open to other players to join as a one off or short campaign for them where it's a long running campaign for me.
I really miss the DnD story.
We all know enough shitty people who ruin dnd to have it constantly reminded here.
I feel the same way. This story has all of 5% of anything to do with DnD and the rest being someone airing out their dirty laundry disguised as a DnD story. I don’t know if this is just the majority of what people submit or the type of content that pulls in views but I really just wanna hear about DnD again from the DnD channel.
Honestly I would have quit the game if we were only playing for 2 hours. 2 hours isn't worth it
Zero hours is better than two hours?
@@Ahrpigi yea. I'm not arranging my whole night or week around 2 hours of something. Plus it would take forever to finish ths campaign
Maybe the cleric needs a better pull out game
This is not a story about Dnd. It's a story about two self centered people that couldn't find common ground and let things escalate out of pure egotistical reasons. To prove the other one wrong. The cleric was right. 2 Hour session are really not ok (they only give you blue balls). The druid was right, also. If you can't stay up and it's affecting you than the answer is simple. You go to sleep. At the same time Dnd is a team game and some self sacrifices have to be made, like "suffering" one extra hour of Dnd. Also that cleric seemed to view relationships like fucking common bartering (what a prick!).
Final line: no, your sleepy time does not trump everyone else's dedicated time for Dnd (boundaries are suppose to make things clearer, not fuck shit up - personal issues need to remain personal) and no it is not ok to rage at someone for their personal choices as that cleric did (they are called personal for a reason). Both these people need to learn that no relationship survives if both sides never compromise.
And then to put this story on the internet.. This just seems like our "boy scout" druid requires some validation about his involvement in this shit show. Naaaahhh son..you keep going to therapy.. as for that cleric..well there's not much anyone else can do for him (just a product of his privileged life)
I honestly like your stories about the characters and the campaigns. More of those please. These Dnd horror stories just suck :(
I'm sceptical about how much I should believe OP, Cleric definitely has a point even if he may have gone about it in a weird and wrong way and may be a bad person overall.
Yes it sucks to only be able to start at 8pm due to Cleric's kids and that is definitely accommodating him but it's not like he doesn't want to start earlier or that he isn't putting work into being able to at least be ready at 8pm. OP saying he wants to end the session at 10pm not once but for all future sessions would piss me off as well. Imagine you're struggling with kids but still try to make time for some DnD just to get told yea we're only going to play 2h from now on and for such a lame reason. If I was the DM I wouldn't outright kick OP but have a talk with him, if losing a few hours sleep (like everyone else does) to play isn't worth it to him then maybe he should quit playing altogether.
I'm fine with my players ending a session a few hours early after already playing for 6-8 hours from time to time, but that usually only happend after one had a night shift before and after the day we play. This is more than reasonable, OP however didn't make it sound like that at all.
Sja, OP is better off without the cleric (as self-centric as a gyroscope) and the DM (useless enabler). I'm glad they got out of that toxic abusive relationship.
Not that this "friend" is worth it, but why not start the session earlier and take a break so the "friend" can put his children to bed?