Is It Really Worth Running A Pot Still Slowly?
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
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The idea is pretty simple. Running a pot still slower will allow you to slightly raise the ABV/proof of the spirit you are producing. Resulting in a slightly "cleaner" overall whiskey or rum. But does that actually work in practice? If it does why should we actually care as distillers?
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#still #distilling #BubblePlate
Just in case you didn’t realize I often include affiliate links in my videos and descriptions.
This will not change the price for you at all, But the seller will buy me a cup of coffee if you purchase from one of the links. Choice eh? - Jak na to + styl
Nice solid simple test to answer one of the most common questions.
VERY interesting! If I understood Soren, he uses distilling speed - at least to some degree - to manage barrel entry proof. Lower entry proof, run hotter and faster. Higher, slow it down. Along with that is hotter and faster equals grungier and more flavor. For better or worse. I have been a “low and slow” advocate until now. You just introduced a new style/flavor lever to play with. Thanks man!
I'm only playing with a 20l Chinese pot still, using a variable induction hob for a heat source, and until now it's been a "blast the stripping runs" and then "slow distill the collected distillate using just enough power" process. With such small volumes, there's not a lot of wiggle room in making cuts so the slow distilling path helps with that.
More to the point is like most things the Foundations are key, your wash! The quality of it, and how you ferment it all have an influence, then from this comes the type of still and power to achieve a great finished product. Then the wood comes into play. Great video Jesse.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Me personally I like keeping my still at about 80-85C
Great video and explanation by Soren! Helps a load with running my pot.
Good show, this was a really interesting overview of controlling taste & ABV by controlling speed/heat.
This is the best video I have seen. Great look into how this is 100% a craft! Thank you.
Another well done video dude! Love the interaction with a guest host related to the topic. It's certainly an interesting topic too. Glad to hear what I've believed in for a while holds true, and good to know about the onion too.
I'd be curious to know how much time each run took, respectively.
Loved this video! This is the content I look for on distilling
Solid!!! One of your best videos yet in my humble opinion.
Thanks Jessie your video's are so helpful and well worth watching keep it up love the work bro
Great video. 1919 distilling, thank you for the opportunity to listen. Cheers from the States
Experiment idea - 60 lt wash into 3 runs (pot fast, pot slow, reflux). Strict 250ml cuts - blind tasting of cuts and see what conclusion drawn by senses only.
Learnt so much from this channel btw so huge thanks for that.
Soren is a legend. I remember talking to him when he was doing a 1919 promo, quite a few years ago. More recently, I've ordered botanicals from him. Great to see him doing so well.
Would be interesting to see how the flavor changes between the two. If the ABV changes I assume that the flavor would change as well.
Higher ABV = less flavor after dilution to drinking strength. Flavor should not change unless you run way too hot and scorch. Run Whisky and rums faster for more flavor, run neutral spirits like vodka slowly for less flavor.
It tastes like burning!
Great video man. I was wondering about the details of this exact question last week. Cheers 🥃
Cheers, can't wait to come see that beautiful big still of yours in person!
Great content and congratulations (in advance) on 200k subs. Party hardy, Brother Jesse!
Congratulations on 200,000 subscribers!
Another great video thanks man keep em coming!
Great topic again! Thanks Jesse.
Another nice video Jesse. I'm glad he mentioned speed in relationship to flavor. Whiskey and rum need that flavor to be carried over, while with neutrals, one would want very little flavor carried over. This in itself should dictate how fast the still is run. I have not done it yet, and wouldn't because of the legality here in the states of course, but a fast stripping run of rum followed up by a slower run with some backset included into the mix to bring the ABV down to a reasonable distilling ABV, sounds like an interesting experiment. Keep up the great work buddy. Hey to Beaver for me if you guys ever still chat. -- den
great video Jesse. Lots of good info. Thanks!
Super video, do you think the biggest influence in the speed will be in the hearts not the heads.
Reason for asking is when I play with power in the heads are alway close with ABV, but once the hearts come the ABV changes like crazy can change upto 15% depending on power in.
On the 6l 38% run the hearts should be around 2l @80%.
This is exactly what I’ve been talking about, specially with the t-500, it’s not a matter of high amount of heat or power, it’s the point where you can control both as one to stop scorching! either when running all grain or fruit or even molasses type mash! Yes slightly lower or controlled heat or power will alway give a better product and smoother distillation than running full bore uncontrolled heat! Even the old moonshiners that used wood fire stills had to control their fires! Great topic and will be interesting to see your further thoughts!
Agree 100%.
"Is It Really Worth Running A Pot Still Slowly?" My answer is "YES!"... sometimes. Distilling slowly in a copper pot still is a pain in the butt and the difference you will see is minute at best, but real quality distillation requires serious temperature control. If the finest quality is your goal (you should probably be using a column still), taking your time is mandatory.
I find patience to be a waste of time but I find that there is no step in the process that doesn't work better if I take more time to do it...
how long you take...what you keep...what you throw away...that's what makes your liquor your liquor
Interesting that the focus was purely on ABV. To me that is a secondary consideration over being able to differentiate between cuts and having a cleaner tasting spirit
Was wondering the same thing
The increased ABV is an example of how decreasing the heat input on a pot still effectively increases the reflux ratio, improving the ability to selectively distil a specific component out of a mixture. This same principle applies to all chemical components of the boiling solution. All of the flavor/aroma compounds will show the same concentrating effect as the ethanol being shown by ABV. Basically this will allow you to be more able to choose very specific flavors you want in the finished product by better concentrating them into specific cut jars.
Faster means more heat it's gonna effect oils if the temp is higher
And i think this is where the misconception of 3 of more boiling points comes from.
A lot of distillers think that there's multiple boiling points that "if i reach 173 and stay under 212 i'll get more alcohol than water, and if i go too close to 212 i'll get more water"
I am distilling a Banana Rum in my T500. The wash is fermented with cooked mashed bananas, Molasses and all the good stuff and is fermented out and settled before pot stilling. I only run the pot still once as the hole point of the exercise to to get as much of the flavor into my product as I can. I use a copper dome and a short column on top of that and a Boka pot still condenser. Inside the column I hang a horses tail of copper made from stripping a short length of very heavy welding earth cable and this is cleaned with Georges 551 cleaning solution so the copper is like brand new with many strands of fine filaments of copper hanging down. I use full throttle on the element to get the run going and drop the energy to almost 50 percent and run the still at 60 percent ABV. I can tweak the power toward the end of the run to extract all I can. I believe that fast is good, but is a tool like anything else, as if I wanted higher ABV I could re flux my rum to the point I would get pure spirit with virtually no flavor at all. My Rum is kick ass, jump up and punch you on the nose stuff. When you close your eyes and drink it you could imagine it being smuggled out of Jamaica in barrels by smugglers and pirates.
Another killer video, cheers!
Jesse! Love your content right now! Great guest and im checking out 1919 now.
Simple and understandable explanation.
This has been a fascinating video to watch
I am a commercial distiller on the bigger stills it makes a bigger difference. David's distillery Morrisville PA.
Thanks so much for this! I always wondered this and figured more reflux time would give a higher ABV, but in practice I never got much difference.
On a side note, I've heard of people adding sugar, honey or salt into the still to increase the boiling temp of the water. This gives a bigger difference between the boiling temp of the alcohol and the water.
That’s the beauty of running on electric , so easy to dial in a constant heat requirement .
Just made my first fruit run. Making some apple brandy for our North American fall. Doing some apple stuff would be cool. Loved the peach videos
I run the anvil foundry and can controll temp perfectly. Making a larger one soon.
Does it depend on the heat input? No. Does it depend on the knockdown power of you cooling unit? No. Does it depend on vapor flow/theoretical plate #? No. Will a slower run create a higher ABV? Yes. Will faster run lower ABV? Yes. These are all dependent factors on the chemistry of the charge and the substrate of the vapor exchange medium. Will some garage warrior with an all stainless steel pot with a 0.6 meter tall Lynn arm make a Glenlivet even with a commercial 340L cask? I’d venture not. Will someone with a 1000L per hour output discharge, dual 20 meter tall pure copper Coffee still, make a Kentucky Bourbon? Yes. Everything is dependent on what goes into that still and the composition of the total components.
Bonus round!: Age your distillate and blend from different runs. That way you can age a crappy run over an extended period and put several together with it for the best possible flavor profile.
Ahhhhh ? Ok ?
Love what you are doing, so this is off topic I have been trying for a all grain scotch whisky I have been successful in my starch to sugar conversion were run into trouble is my ph two to 3 days after pitching my yeast. I start with ph 5.2 and it's great until 2 or 3 days it drops to about 3.4 and the fermenting stops.im using distill max yeast. I have a aquarium heater that is factory set at 78 degrees F. I don't seal my fermenter and leaving .07 of unconverted sugar just makes me sick.
I made a killer Bourbon using a gallon of non-vanilla corn syrup, 2 lbs
of malted barley. Sugar. It made a great bourbon after having it with
burnt oak chips for awhile. I did not carbon filter it. Everyone loved
it.
I made some using corn flakes. I went to a discount store and bought 8-
18 oz boxes for $1.35. When you stew it with the 2 pounds of malted
barley it completely dissolves because it is already gelitenized.
The biggest misconception is that people believe yeast eat sugar, yeast
do not eat sugar. They eat the nutrients in the grains. Otherwise you
could never get yeast to grow when you make bread with out sugar. Happy
yeast make a enzyme that breaks down the sugar into CO2 and alcohol.
you may need to re-upload this video, the squarespace bit doesn't have any volume...
It did have volume but it was only coming out of the right side channel so if you only have left channel audio you could hear nothing
I want one of those copper domes...💕💕💕
If you halve your power going in, can you reduce your condensing water (to save water) too or does that defeat the whole purpose of slowing down the run off?
Interesting discussion. However, it would have been interesting to also get a sensory take on the experiment. I mean, we don't drink one spirit over the other because of its proof/strength. I would imagine that the sensory difference between running speeds would be the slower speeds allows the fractions to stay "in their line/order" allowing for compacting heads and having less smearing allowing for greater accuracy of cuts. Cheers
Would be interesting to compare power consumption difference. Running fast at full power versus running longer with less power.
Great video Jesse. What I would be curious if it's total yields at the different take off speeds. Lower power input would allow for great yields, since separation occurs more. Just a thought.
Yeah good point. I guess thats what Soren was getting at when saying he drops power again near the end of the run. Squeeze out a little more hearts. Be interesting to see how that compares to just running slower the whole time.
There was a long debate with some experiments carried out on the homedistiller forum some time back. Essentially you're agreeing with their conclusions that the abv bump is a consequence of passive reflux, which would suggest that the warmer the stilling environment and the better insulated the still, the less significant this bump will be. The big question for me and others which was never definitively answered was the effect on congeners. Will a slower run, with or without passive reflux, result in less smearing of heads and tails through the run? Accepted practice is to run slowly to reduce smearing, but it would be really interesting to see if a blind tasting could pick up differences in the cuts. I'm hoping to actually do this experiment at some point, but for now I just don't have the time.
Hi jesse
I love your channel and it's very informative but I still have a question
When I'm going to do the spirit run do I dilute the alcohol from the stripping run with water or can I use the dunder from the stripping run and dilute the alcohol to around 35-40 % ????
Greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱😀
Along similar lines of things that affect the distillate on how it's processed maybe you should do a video about fermenting on the grain vs. Off the grain
One of the biggest reasons for running slow was to reduce back pressure easier on the old stills abv was a bonus!
I know this much for sure, if you run *too* fast and hot you WILL regret it. Once you've had a sip of some goofball's scorched liquor you will never forget it. Absolutely undrinkable.
Slower is cleaner, faster is more headsy 👍🏻🇦🇺
Bloody nice bloke thanks for the info
I would just like to add that the way you conduct your distiller also depends on the quantity of your boiler: if distill 1 liter gin will be different from 50L gin.
Why you think that is?
1919- Responsible for one of my worst moments during a hangover...
During the first part of the pandemic they helped fill supply issues with hand sanitizer here in NZ... problem was the sanitizer smelt of Gin, really good Gin normally, but when your hungover, oh man.
Distillation water or proof water. It still gets to 40% in the end usually. Flavor is in inverse proportion to distillate percentage. Use the better T500 head and detune it to 80% with half the packing or no packing for pot still results. That expensive alembic thing is better off on a shelf.
Your a mind reader Jesse! I'm running my 30 gallon right now.....I fill a quart jar about every 20 min lol less maybe. Its always good not fiery or mean. Works great for my set up
Meant to say a little less instead of lol less....autofixxer
Also should mention that I use a propane burner for my heat source. Very adjustable with the regulator
Alcohol percentages will extract different vanillins? Id like to hear about those profiles.
Would controlling the cooling water flow to the condensor while keeping same power level result in the same conclusion?
does this mean that i can also save on cooling water through the condenser by running cooler because id have less water vapor going through the condenser with the ethanol vapor?
Which still do you recommend for a beginner? I've heard you mention the T500 a good amount and it is readily available online.
Got to run some fancy wine grapes 🍇... unreal taste !
I run a double keg boiler and a 15 gallon keg thumper. Twin 1.5 over 1/2 Liebig condensers. Big copper pipe all the way thru. Lots of freezing water theu the liebig. On a 40 gallon run it takes me bout 5-7 hours to finish. Run slow is what i was always told and its never did me wrong
I've found slower running provides better tasting results, which is why I run just enough power to get the job done. Also, running at a controlled temp allows targeting of the boiling point you want. I run at 94c, which gives good consistent performance and high ABV until a steep drop when I then shut down.
Is there any advantages slowing down in terms of reducing smearing of heads and tails into the hearts?
....just confirmed a few things (cheers). Temperature control is an art !
Jesse, have you ever tried varying the temperature during a run? I am a chemist, though not a distilling expert, I know this is done to get a better separation for a certain thing. It may be not applicable, but I am kind of intrested if you tried it.
Gave the slow style a go and seen a massive increase in initial %
Recently purchased a turbo 500 with a copper column can you run it without the saddles in the column
I let it rip last night and came out hot but lower proof than expected for the apparent heat.
Craft Distillery owner here. You definitely want to run full speed in the stripping run. I had done about 600 distillations so far. I started off running it slow but with a pot still it makes an inferior product. One of the main reasons is you want to go deep into the tails are there are great flavor compounds there. If your doing a spirit run and you back off the power at 50% abv for half an hour then go full speed down to 20% you will end up with a project that has great flavor and with a final abv of 52%. This is the ideal ABV for barreling. If you barrel from between 40 to 45% the aging process can produce methanol. Its best to barrel between 48 and 53% abv. Especially if your using small barrels.
what was the difference in taste?? any bad after tastes on the high power run??
Hey, I am fairly new to distilling and have watched a lot of your videos. I was trying to do a stripping run on a vodka mash in my pot still and had something strange occur. From the start, i was getting straight water 0% abv. I ran it for a bit thinking it was just a weird fluke. After an hour of running I again tested the abv and it was still 0%. I decided to stop my run and check things out once it cooled down. After it cooled I checked the abv of the mash left in the still. My starting abv before distilling was 17%. After running it, the abv in the pot is 40%. Obviously this makes sense because I was only getting water out of the condensor. My question is, how does this happen? I somehow went straight past all of the alcohol and distilled only water. My best guess is that I had my still running too fast. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advanced!
I think there is certain amount of absolute alcohol in pot. So if you take it out with higher ABV, then you just get it in less volume. Or am I on wrong path? To my understanding speed will not change initial amount of alcohol in wash?
But it would be interesting to see if there is difference in heads and tails? Witch speed will give you more volume of usable hearts? Will it change taste?
Simple: if you run it faster, it will increase your temp faster and you will be collecting the tails earlier, having shorter hearts.
great video
I wanted to know if slowly running the still will help with the bite that the liquor of a buddy makes cuz its fiery you just feel the burn
Great video, Jesse. But how to you advertise your goods on CZcams?
I notice a big change in ABV when running a flute still with 4 plates at slower speed vs same with high speed. However!!!!! I do notice more flavor at faster speeds vs slower speeds. Maybe because we are carrying over some of the water/wash with faster speed?
Jesse if you made a copper coil that wrapped around your copper dome you could cool that dome
I mean you will result in a cleaner spirit definitely but if your making whisky you probably dont want it too clean , think about the diffrence between clean irish triple distilled and something delicious like springbank which is much more tasty dispite the new make sprit being quite harsh
I totally agree. Thats what we were getting at saying its a artistic decision. I guess I could have made that a little clearer 👍
@@StillIt yeah your bang on ☺️ it is an artistic decision , some people drive their stills hard and produce a master peice others produce hot chilly piss water , other drive their stills slow producing a clean symphony of flavour while others bland meh.
@@StillIt i know run my wash/ low wines off as fast as i can without it foaming
Low and slow is the way to go.
Zdravím z české republiky. Při druhém pálení je nutné se změřit na pomalý nástup tepla mezi 85 a 90 stupni celsia. Protože se oddělují lépe ruzně vařící složky tedy metyl alkohol se uodpařuje dříve velký výkon ho strhává s alkoholem sebou u Brendy.
I've found (more importantly than abv) , the distillate is much smoother if you run as slow as you can get it so for personal consumption, I run as slow as I can to get the most smooth distillate I can. I think it's worth it
The way to go. I like using the first run. More flavor.
Passive reflux certainly plays A role in all of this, but molecular mechanics are also a huge part of the story
Yes, the boiling point is somewhat independent of power input, but the higher your power input, the higher chances are that some "heavier" molecules are also sufficiently energized to also carry over in small quantities.
isn't there an influence of the pot size as well? Ran my diy ~25 liter pot & liebig a few times now, enhanced the heater control but can't dial in fix steam temperatures. So I tend to go slow, as the abv in the small wash volume changes quite fast and thus the boiling point changes fast as well. To me going slow seems to be the only way to achieve meaningful cuts.
run a still at 200 degrees if ya like, makes no difference if you use a thumper.
it does what it does, its the water flow that cools the vapour that makes it work.
We are specifically talking about pot stills here. So there is no thumper and there is no active reflux condenser.
interesting way of running a pot still, i can see what you guys are talking about. but the question is couldn't you also run this through a thumper running your pot full on and get the desired ABV?
because i know that a thumper will get you an extra "10%" more abv.
What about flavor in a GIN run… it will be different is I go faster or slowly?
More than ABV I'm interested in how much of the flavour from the wash is carried through.
Hi Jesse!
I would like to know witch one had the biggest energy outtake in combination of what you did.
You mean like how many wat hours for each? No idea sorry mate. I don't measure.
To get a higher ABV there are a couple of factors that play a part in it. One is the number of plates you use if you are using a column still, the other is the reflux ratio. The higher the reflux ratio, the higher the ABV you will have at the destilate. So you could run the still full power, and still have a really good separation with the reflux ratio.
This is specifically talking about pot stills mate.
@@StillIt right, my bad hahaha
This is awesome. Good work J, I hope you feel like you're living the dream because it looks good from here. Are there any more distillation science YT channels.
Thanks man. Oh trust me, I know how lucky I am haha.
This guy goes pretty deep on the science side, let him know I sent you :)
czcams.com/users/StillBehindTheBench
czcams.com/users/BarleyandHopsBrewing
@@WEGOTEYEONYOU2 no I was put on the right track, B&H TB&H and B&B plus Doctor Gradus and that South African cat are all channels I have subscribed to.
@@jacobthompson1682 If the inner workings of distillation are interesting to you, consider getting some chemical engineering courses or books. Distillation, of all types, is one of the primary processes in which chemical engineers specialize. While generally what is said he is correct, there are some slight inaccuracies, but that could be down to differences in jargon and word usage. Distillation is an incredibly deep subject. i've worked with reactive distillation, extractive distillation, cryogenic distillation, distillation methods to manipulate azeotropes, etc.. At the heart of all of those is chemical equilibrium thermodynamics, and it's awesome.
@@andrewmonfort4881 the jargon is exactly what you were having issues with. I'm very new and yes distillation as a practice including ethanol and not excluding other chemicals is interesting. I've found certain science CZcams that also touch that subject too. Thanks.
Great video, Jesse! I am glad to hear that running a still slowly to get better spirit is not a myth. It seems logical: more heat into the kettle means higher temperatures near the heating element(s) which means more water will boil and escape as steam. No still can heat uniformly throughout its entire volume, although a Bain Marie may come close. Lower power means less heat energy which decreases the chance of some part of the water in the wash boiling off. Not that it matters much if you use a forced air condenser like me: I can't run the still too hard or steam comes out the condenser!
Yup totally. One small amendment I would make is that slower dose not equal "better". Its a artistic decision where on the scale you want to run a specific spirit. But I think you totally get that, just going outa my way to type it because I could have done a better job of making that clear in the vid (sure other people will read this).
Cheers mate
@@StillIt
I missed this argument in the interview. I don't think higher ABV means better spirit. During water steam distillations, essential oils are getting transported with the hot steam. This means more steam means better yield of essential oils. We don't want 95% medicinal alcohol without any kind of flavor.
I'm personally of the opinion "the slower, the better".
This is where humongous stills come in handy for a real production run, you can run low and slow and still collect a lot more very quick just due to surface area and liquid volume.
Typing before actually watching.
My guess is this is some advice that mattered more when caps were held on with weights or friction, and sealed with flour or mud.
Too much heat outside will reflect on pressure inside, and a thicker mash bubbling inside might be more prone to blocking. I don't know that it makes for better product so much as valid operational concerns in days of yore
@ 8:50! wrong is wrong
When running REALLY slow, there's a point where the boiler TEMP shoots up (I know, I know). On strips I start watching abv a lot more and stop relatively early. On spirits, I just stop it when it shoots up, the flavor drops drastically. It seems. Still learning.
Oh, and it makes cuts a lot easier
What I wanted to take out from this video was the taste or the aroma. Would it be wise to run it fast in order to receive more aromatic drink? My thoughts are it should as the alcohol you receive is less in ABV. But is the ABV that less would give you more aroma? I am distilling Turkish Raki which the fermentation consists of grapes and sugar. After that I am using reflux still to receive around 90% ABV. Than I am infusing anis for about 5 days to 90% ABV next step is going through pot still. Now that’s where my question starts I am always running potstill in lower speed which is producing 83% ABV of hearts. Than diluting that with water in order to get 50% of ABV final product. If I were to run pot still fast than probably i will end up with less amount and less ABV but running fast will give me more aromatic drink or not? Thats my question.
Try it out and let us know.
@@MrSottobanco I did and run it slowly, running it fast does not produce the same quality.