Why do cartoon kings look like this?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 8. 09. 2024
- Crowns, robes, scepters and beards. Why is THIS the official look of cartoon royalty?
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I actually have a personal theory about the lack of purple in depictions of old kings and royalty. I believe it's likely that the lack of artwork depicting purple clothing probably had to due with the fact that the paint needed to accurately portray this clothing required the same, or at least similar, dyes that were equally hard to get, so painters couldn't afford to use purple paint. Upon doing a little research, it seems that the nations that had the most depictions of purple-wearing royalty seemed to also coincidentally be the nations that valued art the most, and would likely have the artists that had the most access to colorful dyes and paints.
huge brain theory!!
Thats not really a theory, thats basically what happened, the only way to make purple dye back then was from one type of sea snail that lived in the bottom of the red sea
Thatâs a good theory!
Can't you just mix red and blue paint? (Or am I being to smol brain rn)
@@Phoenix-J yes, but it fades relatively quickly.
I would love to see you pick apart the classic cartoon "burglar" stereotype, with the black knit cap, black and white striped shirt, black mask over ONLY the eyes, and big burlap sack with a dollar sign on it.
The sack often has âswagâ written on it. He is supposed to carry a jemmy as well.
I think the black and white striped shirt is based on the idea that convicts used to wear those in prison instead of the orange jumpsuits they wear now.
Same lol, I've always loved that trope/cartoon stereotype
McDonaldâs is why.
my favourite type of JJ videos are the ones where he proposes a 5-year-old kid level question "why does it look like that" and then implements his grown up with a degree level research prowess to find the answer
Yeah, i was thinking the same lol. He earned a new subscriber, me, with the bell on.
Royal ample backside .
I believe that the reason why many portraits of kings had red or blue color robes instead of purple was because the purple paint was too expensive for most artists. The kings may have been wearing purple, but the painter could not afford to buy the rare and expensive purple dye, so they used a more common, cheaper color like red, blue, or white.
Didnât they know that you can just mix red and blue?
only works for thin layers of painting. Apply more, and it gets almost black really quickly
That would make sense, especially because purple is what you get when you combine red and blue.
@@JosePineda-cy6om i recently mixed ultramarine blue with cadmium red and at first I got a good purple, then it turned super black, and i'm like whaaaaat why is this happening.
they had to have the paint made with dyes, not made from mixing the paint back then was delicate and could do black from mixing quicker then you may think.
One thing to point out about your thing with "purple" here is that the color you're thinking of as "purple" is actually historically called "indigo." Actual tyrian purple doesn't look anywhere near as "blue" as this, and is typically a lot closer to looking red, and actually looks a lot closer to a dull fuchsia. It's also next to impossible to replicate the color, and given the pigment has always costed more than gold, painters could never use the stuff when painting portraits so had to substitute for other colors, like red or indigo which were much more available.
I'm also convinced that's the reason. I'm also pretty sure this misunderstanding is specifically an English thing, because in Italian the color associated with royalty since Roman times is called "porpora" (clearly related to purple) but we understand it as shade of red rather than the violet-like color that English speakers usually associated with the word purple
That sounds so cool, did you just make that up haha? If so or if not elaborate on your knowledge (or creativity)!
@@JP-jq1qx It's called "looking it up." Shit, just going to the wikipedia page will give you a crash course on the matter. But the reason I'm familiar with it is because I did a lot of research into tyrian purple at one point. It's also how I found out that the dye is worth nearly about 100x its weight in gold. Seriously, gold goes for about US$55 a gram, and tyrian purple pigment goes for $5000 per gram.
Does it have a RGB color code?
Indigo comes historically from the indigo plant. The dye made from shellfish was called purpura by the Romans and porphyra by the Greeks.
I remember being confused as a kid when I was told purple is the âroyal colourâ because I was so used to seeing depictions of kings wearing red
I think that might have to do with the fact that the pope traditionally wore red back in the Middle Ages before switching to white some time around the period of the Reformation.
I remember royal blue being a thing. Maybe from Sweden or France (when they had kings). The blue was decorated with gold/yellow ornaments. Oh well, you know, mixing blue and red makes purple.
Its because purple is a expensive colour to produce
@@MD.Akib_Al_Azad was
It hadn't occurred to me before but I love the idea that the King's Scepter is an abstracted representation of the ingrained idea that whoever has the biggest and the pointiest stick gets be in charge and make the rules.
@shadiversity
They are a type of stylised Mace.
Even secular parliaments in republics have them. There is such a Mace in the US House Of Congress.
"Mine's bigger than yours"
And also like a maestro or old school teacher, used for directing and grand gestures!
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
Hey, JJ, one idea might be to take a look at the idea of âfairiesâ. If you search for fairy clip art, you get a lot of pictures of girls with insect wings wearing clothing associated with ballet and a wand topped with a large star. Kind of a weird set of things.
Angels too. The 19th century paintings of women in robes with wings are nothing like biblical angels.
My guess is that Renaissance paintings, inspired with the beauty of the human bady, may be an inspiration to form our modern interpretations
I'd like to add to Shane's theory: It could also be in part the human propensity to personify or anthropomorphize everything as well. Especially in the case of fairies.
Fairies tend to be benign or even benevolent, so it's natural to humanize them. Monsters, that are dangerous or malevolent, tend to take forms that are much less human because we aren't supposed to relate to them as much.
@@wendyleeconnelly2939 those aren't supposed to be women...
And it begins earlier than 19th century.
It could be because of the sugarplum fairy from the nutcracker suite, which is a very well known ballet role. Since the show and music are a popular Christmas event, people made the connection in their heads.
You know, I've always wondered why Wizards and Witches wear pointy hats. That might not fill an entire episode, but I'd love to know. đ€
Why they have those pointy hats??? JJ please tell us!!
The witch would be a great subject for a stock character breakdown
And dunces.
Yeah thats a good question. I'd guess it gioes back to early (probably inaccurate) artistic portrayals, like the spiked crown meme.
Also fairytale princess pointy hats!
The ancient culture surrounding scepters truly cracks me up. "I have the fancy stick! You must all listen to me!" It's one of many great examples of behavior we would normally deem immature or even infantile but because it's so embedded in our understanding of culture, no one questions it anymore.
Weren't scepters (originally) basically just fancy looking clubs? Combine that, with everybody else being forbidden to bear weapons in the presence of the king, and the situation becomes more like "If you do not respect my authority! I will bonk you!"
It's like when some prat in group therapy refuses to pass on the "talking stick".
"I have the stick, I get to talk, you all shut up"
it's a symbolism. it's one part of the things that kings hold in their hands. you can see kings depicted with sticks, scepter, something that points, the masculine in the right hand. and an orb in the left, something feminine, an egg, something that births. jonathan pageau has a video on it
@@williamadiputra2850 It's prevalent in cultures completely disassociated with Europe too. The kings of Hawaii would carry spears, the Inca emperors had ornate halberds. It really is a universal thing that pops up everywhere.
Sceptres come from a simplified version of a Fasces, which is a collection of sticks bound together about a hand axe. The idea, at least, a hypothesis from archeology, is that by 'holding fasces' means you cannot also hold a sword or a spear, you are there to hear people out, and you cannot strike someone down where they stood. Basically, it's supposedly a symbol of restraint and composure, something prized in people who rule.
Add some simplification of symbols over time and a bundled of sticks meant to keep an emperor's hands busy like a glorified fidget toy, you get the royal stick, or sceptre.
A point missed with the facial hair is that a full beard and mustache can also be associated with knowledge and wisdom; thatâs applicable to a king, because kings are typically assumed to be very refined, well-educated, experienced, and wise people
I think part of the reason pointy crowns are so common in depictions is because they are much easier to draw than the cloth variant.
Much like how stars and heart shapes donât accurately reflect the shape of the symbol they are supposed to represent, pointy crowns exist as an easy-to-draw symbol for a crown.
That would explain things! Thanks for the comment!
one of the first French crowns was ringed with fleur-de-lis, and similar crowns would be adopted since the French royal family held great influenced over the nearby kingdoms.
I love videos like this. We have so many cultural stereotypes we take for granted.
Here are some characters that I think are iconic that could be fun to look at:
- Wizard
- Witch (you may have done this in your Halloween focused episode)
- Santa Claus
- Pirate
- Viking
- Cowboy/Frontiersman
Also:
- Gangster
- Ninja
- Clown
- Nurse
- Farmer
- Nerd (glasses and white shirt with pens in pocket, e.g. AVGN)
- Detective (Sherlock Holmes deerstalker, or film noir trenchcoat and fedora)
- Moustache-twirling villain (J.J. himself drew a common stock image of this stereotype)
- Magician (similar to villain)
- Certain ethnic stereotypes (e.g. beret and striped shirt for Frenchman, conical straw hat for East Asian)
TV Tropes lists many under "Stock Costume Traits".
@@robrophside3691 Gangster, Clown and Nerd are all great! As well as villain.
@@romanshtompil856 Ironically, J.J.'s villain drawing is used by his own arch-villain: Wikipedia.
Clowns, nerds and why te pirates have an eye patch
Yes! Anything that has a Halloween costume version of it. This could be a few different episodes, like why does [profession] look like this, or why does [supernatural character] look like this.
Small correction: Yes, pruple dye was very rare because it required an insane amount of a small sea creature, but different dyes where a lot more common and clothes used to wear very colorful clothes, not the brown that movies often depict.
Exactly. People loved color and used it throughout history. There is plenty of evidence for that. The drab brownish attire of âcommonersâ is a movie trope.
When at first you said Purple is one of the least marketable colours I didn't believe you. But after spending a few minutes thinking about the colour of nearly every possesion I own, I realised how right you are.
I seek purple out for some reason. czcams.com/video/iPDcUGwfxak/video.html It is, what it is!
Itâs such a pretty color I think it needs to be more common
I don't really care. It's my favorite color and most of my clothes are purple. The one color I never wear and don't like is red. The closest is burgundy. Bright red makes me look like I have a rash, bright yellow like I have jaundice and bright blue like I'm anemic. Now that my hair is white I dye my hair purple too.
lime is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY worse than poo-rple
â@@KanyeTheGayFish69 maybe the reason it's so pretty is because it's so rare
Royal Purple is actually closer to Scarlet or Burgundy than what we nowadays call purple. Any movies of ancient Rome show the Senators and Emperor wearing Red stripes on their togas, which is actually historically accurate, even though the color (2,000 years ago) was called purple. So the paintings you showed of royalty wearing RED robes were actually "Royal Purple" (to call it by its original name, not what we nowadays call Royal Purple). But your confusion is totally understandable! This is a great example of how words change meanings over time.
and 'violet' meant blue. yeah I think you might be onto something there.
Related to the pointy crown, I think another reason for its cultural abundance as opposed to the more âroyalâ looking hat is probably due to how easy it is to depict/draw and still be recognizable as a crown. Itâs way more simple to portray and construct than those really complex fabric-jewel crowns! (Just being simple triangles basically)
Yeah I'm not sure how many people can draw one of those fabric-cushion-loop crowns off the top of their head! It's a lot easier to draw something that looks like it came out of a christmas cracker.
Also, that style of crown is seen on the helmet of monarchs, so that they are identifiable on the battlefield for their own troops to know' oh shoot, it's the king, and he's telling me what to do.'
Plus it looks way cooler.
I would be interested in learning more about the origin of the classic thief look. I picture someone with a striped shirt, a small black facemask, a hat and a sack over his shoulder. Maybe you could make a video simular to this one, but about the cliché thief.
ps: maybe you could talk a little about the pencil mustage as the facial hair of the thief. But I am not shure if that is really as common as I think it is.
greetings from cologne, germany
Hello I am from Germany Wuppertal
Hi
Striped shirt definitely was inspired by old designs for prison uniforms, where the black and white stripes were that era's version of high visibility and instantly recognizable ways of communicating the person clothed in that uniform is a prisoner (since reflective orange jumpsuits are only a modern invention)
That's a burglar, which is a fairly modern rendition of thieves.
Basically it's just a guy prison clothes and hiding their identifying features.
@@jamesrosewell9081 I'm pretty sure J.J. mentioned in one of his older videos, that the idea of a thief wearing stripes doesn't come from the prison clothing, but from the stereotype, that sailors were thieves
The beard thing might have something to do with the perception of kings as being wise rulers (despite what reality usually reflects). And with wisdom generally coming w/ age, and age coming w/ whitening hair - the white beard could be a way to symbolize this.
True!
Also beards are a sign of maturity
"Despite what reality usually reflects?" Monarchs are usually far more successful than republican rulers.
@@thareinpotuhera5255 Successful with what?
@@thareinpotuhera5255 I suppose that depends on how you define successful and monarch
2:24 Dude was really like "A tree is fine too"
I'd like to see a video going over traits we associate with clowns. The idea and perception of clowns changed so much, but a few main elements in the costume and makeup seems to remain.
Clowns have fallen so far out of fashion that you'll notice that even ol Ronald McDonald was quietly phased out sometime in the late 2010s !
How even though less than 1% of people are actually afraid of clowns, everybody acts like it's a real thing... either ironically, or because of peer pressure? I just imagine a room full of a hundred people and one says "Clowns are scary" and the other 99 are thinking, "No they aren't, but I want to fit in the group" and then agreeing.
@@shorewall Okay, you are the one percent. That doesn't really affect the rest of us?
@@shorewall Okay, do we know what "I just imagine" means? Because that was a dramatization... actually it wasn't even a dramatization, it was a joke. The actual data says that of the 1160 polled, only 14 experienced a fear of clowns (1.2%). You can claim that sample size is too small or something, but I don't actually know _anyone_ who is afraid of clowns. However, being afraid of clowns is a huge meme, and people online (like you) act like is this huge systemic problem metastasizing in our culture... and it's just... not.
It's a lot like the "Satanic Panic," even Satanists don't actually worship Satan... their name is intentionally misleading, but it's still not the society-ending problem Conservative Christians think it is.
i'd be really interested in a deconstruction of the 'wizard' archetype (pointy hat, loooong beard, sceptre/wand, robes) - how old is it? when did characters like merlin (who's from a reasonably old story) begin to be depicted thus? where did the various elements originate? does it have any connection to extant depictions of alchemists or similar?
The short answer is Odin. He goes around dressed in a gray cloak and pointed brimmed hat, with a walking staff is a lot of stories. If you think that sounds a lot like Gandalf, thatâs because Gandalf was heavily inspired by Odin.
@@kokofan50 ooh, interesting! along the same lines it also occurs to me that several of the lewis chessmen have a distinctly wizard-y look, with long beards and pointy hats - i think some combo of the king, berserker, and bishop would get you pretty close to the modern archetype
@@JavieraScarratt the berserker are wearing helmets.
Henry VIII is often seen as an archetypal king and it seems to me that a lot of our ideas about what a king looks like are inspired by him
I don't think so. Like what?
@@JJMcCullough Not so much in terms of his clothing, but his facial hair and large overweight body are a pretty close match to the stereotypical king
@@roundninja Yeah, the Burger King looks like a Genericized version of Henry VIII......
I think it's more likely, that most kingly stereotypes come from Charlemagne - the crown, the scepter, the robe (not ermine yet), and even a great long beard. He was the very model of a modern king in his time, and a subject of much emulation
If a king is portrayed as fat/a tyrant, he's just as likely seen wearing a bonnet like Henry's as he is a crown. Henry's bonnet was often garnished with ostrich feathers as they were rare in Europe at the time
As others have said (but is worth reiterating to boost engagement), the purple made from different types of murex sea snail, often grouped together as âTyrian Purpleâ, is close to red, perhaps closer to red than some shades now called âroyal purpleâ, so it shouldnât be surprising to see more red in royal costume. The word âpurpleâ itself is etymologically descends from to the Latin and Greek words for the colour of that dye. What we would consider âpurpleâ or even âroyal purpleâ today is far more blue than the colour of murex-dyed fabrics.
this. The confusion arises from the English language. Royal purple or purpur shouldn't be violet but closer to red wine, and most languages distinguishes the two. A similiar color is Porphyry (a kind of granite), that takes the name from the same greek root, and the stone was also reserved to kings and emperor.
I'm under the impression that in the ancient times in Tyre (and maybe other places too) they also made some kind of deep blue color also from some kind of mollusks and it was also quite expensive (though maybe not quite as much?). Maybe sometimes a mixture of the two was also used?
@@seneca983 youâre right - although thatâs a different species of sea snail. Phoenicians (in Tyre and elsewhere) used different sea snails for different colours. Saying that, the word for âpurpleâ is from a Graeco-Roman context and itself referred initially to the more âredâ dye used for dyeing robes.
@@azael1474 yes, definitely, very good point. Those gorgeous porphyry sculptures and the Byzantine use of the colour purple (porphyros) as a politically symbolic colour were in the back of my mind too :)
You can actually make purple dye from purple flowers. My Indian grandmother made dye from lavender and violets and showed me the way she did it as a girl in The Punjab.
I've always heard the idea of purple being "the royal color" from British, American, Canadian and Australian people. In France, the "royal color" is definitely blue (and we even call this kind of blue "bleu roi"), whereas purple is more associated (not always) with imperial affirmation, and for some reason the Spanish monarchy (maybe because the kings of Spain never officially renounced their pretention to be the heirs of the late Eastern Empire, contrary to French kings who dropped the idea in the 16th century). Also, Napoléon did not wear a red cape but a purple one... or rather a "pourpre" one. In France, the color associated with emperorship (and the Spanish monarchy), and said to be inherited from the Roman Empire, is called "pourpre" (and even "pourpre impériale"), and is much redder than what today's anglophones call "purple".
"royal purple" and "royal blue" are both colours in English, and I'd say that people have a better conception of what "royal blue" actually is (it's sort of an ultramarine shade) than what "royal purple" is. I have a derwent pencil called "imperial purple" and it's closer to that tyrian purple shade one would have got from the snail than a violet.
Interesting that the kings of Spain were pretenders to the Eastern Roman Empire. Prior to the official unification of the British and Irish crowns in 1801 the English (and later) British monarchs were all pretenders to the French crown. As for blue being the royal color in France, this perhaps may explain why we still hear "royal blue" used to describe a certain shade of blue. And given how much influence France had on the fashion industry for much of the 20th century (generally after their last monarchy was abolished), that may explain how the term "royal blue" spread to the English-speaking world, especially if it was used to describe the color of certain articles. (At the very least, it probably explains the modern conception of "blue for boys and pink for girls.")
I, too, associate purple with imperial (which is why he found it in a Emperor of India era king of England painting) but crimson as royal king level color as well as cardinal for the princes of the church.
The fantasy nerd in me would love to see you deconstruct the rest of the stock middle-ages characters, such as a red-plumed knight fighting a green dragon, or a princess and her tiara. But what I would love to see most of all is you delving into the origins of the stereotypical cartoon VIKING. I think it's common knowledge these days that vikings didn't actually wear horns on their helmet, they look a lot different than the way we usually depict them. I think this stems from things like classic art and operas. I know you would do this topic justice JJ!
I guessing it would have to do with all the paintings of the Knight Saint George (whose symbol is a RED cross on a white background) attacking a dragon who is often depicted as green to rescue a princess who was to be sacrificed.
(The dragon was demanding female virgin sacrifices and the so the king decided to draw lots. When his daughter was drawn he decided to be fair to the people and giver her up despite her being royalty)
Im guessing this also brought the trope of the Damsel in distress into western cannon since I believe its Ethiopian in origin
An interesting side note unlike lots of modern stories where the Knight rescues the princess for her hand in Marriage, St George killed the Dragon to get them to convert to Christianity.
In the Chicago Art Museum they have old Paintings of this from both Western and African artists and its really interesting to see the differences
Thats just my best guess however
might as well add the stereotypical depiction of Jesus who almost certainly did not look like a white hippie guy.
"Mighty" or powerful men, such as knights, have always shown prowess through hunting. And what bigger pray is there than a dragon. The stereotype dragon is clearly mythical, but there is a lot of evidence dragon legends come from actual encounters with dinosaurs. I know it doesn't fit the current scientific narrative, but i haven't read any compelling arguments against the idea.
@@reddykilowatt well thats because people chose images of Jesus that looked like them. The Romans depicted Jesus as a Roman. The Ethiopians depicted Jesus as Ethiopian, the Koreans as a Korean
@@bobpobcf9723 kind of emphasizing the fact its all made up.
12:30 The sticks do actually have a deeper meaning! Originally, rulers carried whole bundles of sticks, called fasces. Specifically, they were bundles of oath-sticks gifted by and representing the allegiances of subordinate tribes. Paring down from a bundle to a single stick was effectively a statement of unitary authority -- that a king's power was one indivisible thing, rather than a composite of the powers of regional leaders.
The symbolism of the sticks in the bundle itself also has a deeper meaning that relates to tally sticks, an ancient method of recording the terms of a contract by cutting marks into a stick and then splitting the stick lengthwise to give each party a copy they can use to prove the terms. Giving the entire stick -- both halves -- was a gesture symbolizing that you were giving the other party the ability to dictate terms.
I should note also that the symbolic meaning of the fasces is still very much alive and in use! The United States even has one, specifically the Mace of the US House of Representatives is composed of 13 individual sticks that each represent one of the 13 original colonies, bound together with silver bands.
I didn't realize the connection between the _fasces_ and the royal staff! I _was_ aware of the _fasces_ being used since ancient times as a symbol (and even today, with the Mace of the US House of Representatives; by the way, the logo of the US Senate uses the _fasci_ too), but now, I know that ancient rulers once carried them around until they decided to express their centralized authority in a singular stick. Thanks for the information!
What an irregularly timed episode!
I just sat down on my throne and said the EXACT same thing!
I actually thought it was going to be a short and perhaps he'd planned for that but had enough for a whole video
@Safwaan I mean throne⊠lol
I think he's moving, and probably wants time to set up his whole new set in his new place, and so made this just before leaving. Can't see why he didn't just save it until Saturday though.
I imagined that this was meant to be uploaded in advance and publisjed Saturday, and then he accidentally messed up the settings and didnt retract because it already got lots of attention. (Altho I think JJ did delete once a few months ago.)
I always assumed that kings were bearded to invoke a sense of elderly wisdom or gruff authority, the same way that a wizard would be depicted with a beard or how cops are portrayed with moustaches
Have you considered deconstructing the âAmerican canon of normal jobs?â The sort youâd find in a childâs play set? I can think of doctor, teacher, construction worker, fireman, cop as good examples. Why are there no accountants or lumberjacks in fisher-price world?
Red-robed medieval kings are pretty common in cartoons as well, such as Prince John in Disney's Robin Hood and in the Looney Tunes short "Rabbit Hood," where Bugs Bunny impersonates the king of England and "knights" the Sheriff of Nottingham by whacking him on the head repeatedly with a scepter. (Not only did he have a red robe, but also a spiked crown.) The idea of purple being the color of royals wasn't invented by modern culture, though; the purple dye you mentioned earlier was generally reserved for royals because it was so expensive only the wealthy could afford it.
Ah yes, the next installment in my favorite ongoing series "Why does this thing look like that". Certainly a true all time classic đ but honestly amazing work J.J.
Until now I thought that the ermine cape was actually Dalmatian fur, I had no idea the black spots were meant to be the bits of the weasel's tail
...So you thought Cruella DeVil was a royal? :P
somehow my dumb ass thought it was like, owl or falcon chest feathers. Like I knew it was fur, but some part of my brain was like "yeah of course, chest feathers. that kind of fur"
Speaking of purple being a royal/imperial color, we can thank the byzantines. Their emperors we're into purple and one of the emperor's mark was a purple robe. They even had a room build from purple stones in the palace of Constantinople where empresses gave birth. That's why a son born to a sitting emperor in called in greek porphyrogenitus or "born in the purple".
Dude⊠no. All those facts about the Byzantines are true but they did NOT come up with them⊠They are not the reason we consider purple royal. That concept is much older and more widespread than the Byzantines. They inherited the tradition of purple=royal from their Roman forefathers
The real reason that purple was a royal color is that it was so hard to get that it was literally worth its weight in gold. Purple as a color being widespread is a modern luxury we take for granted, before some chemist accidentally found out how to make artificial dye the only way to get purple as a dye was through using a type of snail only found in the red sea, which also didn't make a lot of the purple color. And you can't just mix red and blue dyes to get purple as you would usually get a muddier purple since dyes and paints are hard to mix well. Also, when I say that purple color being widespread is a modern luxury I mean it. Artificial purple was only invented around 100 or so years ago by accident, and before then many countries outright banned the use of the color unless you were of nobility to keep the color protected.
Per Joe Edwards, while those are all true and fascinating facts about Byzantium, the value and royal associations of Purple did not come into being simply because the Byzantine Emperors happened to be "into purple." The Byzantine Emperors would have got that primarily from their Roman predecessors who also decorated themselves in Purple. The royal associations of Purple were well established before the Romans ever had an Empire
@@tiberiuscodius5828 i think that everybody misunderstand what i said. Even in the video jj says that early roman emperors wore purple, so this need to point this out confuses me. The toga picta, which existed before the empire and was worn by generals during a triumph is important in this development. I wanted to give a shoutout to byzantium to keeping this tradition alive. Also you can't take them as separate from the early empire. They we're romans, they and everybody else called them romans and a continuity existed for almost 1000 years.
6:38 Yeah it's weird how old art and media get viewed as legitimate even when they depict even older things. I'd love to see a video dedicated to this topic!
Purple has indeed been a very rare color historically due to it's rarity, but you're right in pointing out that it hasn't necessarily been associated with royalty as much as people say. In 1856, the English chemist William Henry Perkin patented an easy way to make purple dye that led to a kind of purple-mania in Victorian English fashion at the time. Queen Victoria famously wore many outfits using the (no longer rare or expensive) purple dye, which is probably why English royalty used purple after that, as she was well-respected. I think it'd be pretty ironic that it became associated with royalty in the modern era precisely at the time it became cheaply available to everyone.
The Real name of the "Forbidden City" in Beijing, is actually "Purple Forbidden City".
玫çŠć
玫(purple) çŠ(banned/forbidden)ć(walled city/fortress/castle)
not sure why they dropped the "purple" part when translated to English name.
@@davidjacobs8558 also, PorphyrogĂ©nnÄtos (Greek: Î ÎżÏÏÏ ÏογÎΜΜηÏÎżÏ, lit.â'purple-born'), Latinized as Porphyrogenitus, was an honorific title in the Byzantine Empire given to a son, or daughter (Î ÎżÏÏÏ ÏογÎΜΜηÏη, PorphyrogĂ©nnÄtÄ, Latinized Porphyrogenita), born after the father had become emperor.
My mother's cousin was married to Averil Perkin who from family tree research I now know to be the granddaughter of the above mentioned William H Perkin. He led an interesting life and made several discoveries. Averil was an Edinburgh girl , as some of the family moved up there and Averil had four daughters who all have offspring so there are a few descendants on the go !
@@auldfouter8661 really slammin down on that spacebar eh
@@KairuHakubi Hey , you win this week's prize for the most unnecessary comment!
My favorite, however more nerdy, is the one bearded man theory, where Merlin, Gandalf, Dumbledore (in short, the old wizard in every tale) are actually the same person that travels between worlds
That's from "The Once and Future King" by T.H. White. it's a good read
I mean, it probably has more to do with the fact that a lot of fantasy copies Tolkien (I bet Rowling did too). Although Gandalf was more inspired from the Norse deity Odin. But then again... to imagine a dude with a lot of knowledge as an old dude and associating old dudes with beards isn't really surprising.
The original "Royal Purple" is actually a red color, also known as Tyrian Purple and Phoenician Red. Modern royal purple isn't the same color, it actually is the common idea of what purple is.
Actually the crown of Christian the fourth of Denmark, though being a bit more gaudy than the usual clip-art crown, is pretty spot on, in terms of having the general shape of a classic cartoon crown
on the subject of kings, playing cards would be really interesting to look at, when I was travelling in Spain, an Italian friend asked if I wanted to play cards so I agreed and he pronounced a deck of card designs completely unfamiliar to me! I was fascinated that there was more available than the standard British/North American deck of the usual designs that were still popular in various European countries. Maybe looking into the Tarot would be an interesting place to explore architypes and other recurring motifs?
Exactly. I myself was wondering how he was able to create a whole video about how kings are depicted in illustration, without ever even mentioning playing card kings (the Kings of Clubs, Hearts, Spades, and Diamonds) and how these were derived from the earlier Tarot card kings (the Kings of Wands, Cups, Swords, and Pentacles.) Seems like such an obvious thing to point to. Apart from children's fairytale books and movies, modern people most often see pictures of kings in card decks.
I'd love to see a video on the standard "fantasy jobs" that we see all the time today. My understanding of the evolution is basically just Tolkien getting inspired by random European folklore, which in tern inspired trpg creators, which became the standard for every single fantasy setting after that era it seems. That's just what I've heard from the grapevine, so I'd love to hear your take on all that, plus the effect it's had on our culture as a whole.
What we call purple used to be a lot redder than what we call purple now. The clue is in the name, from the Latin, 'purpur', meaning 'fire fire'. A lot of those crimson cloaks you're looking at in those pictures would have been coded as purple at the time. Other examples of colours changing their names/boundaries are around if you look for them. A good example is to get hold of a spectrum printed on paper, and mark out the section you consider to be orange. Then go and get an orange. It'll be yellow.
I know it's a little silly to say, but I'm a little sad this is that last time we will see this iconic background. I'm sure the next background will be cool though!
@8:15 "That's the cutest f'ing thing I've seen in my entire life." _gets turned into a robe_
Ah time to enjoy yet another award-winning* video from JJ over dinner!
Edit: playing cards have certainly played their part perpetuating what a king is supposed to look like.
The issue with purple is that in those times people used to call purple all the different tones that could be extracted from the snail, including red. It is called "red purple". Look at this museum photo: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Purple_Purpur_%28retouched%29.jpg/2560px-Purple_Purpur_%28retouched%29.jpg
I didn't know that! So many of the "purple" robes of the Middle Ages might very well have been _red_ robes, which would explain how royal robes can be red in real life and purple in the popular imagination. Thanks for the information!
Had a friend who carved Nordic runes into my wooden hockey stick for me, which roughly meant "power" and "destruction". It was basically a functional sceptre and totally "metal"! đ đ€
Shouldâve used it to clobber the opposing players over the head
A sceptre is more of a Mace, a hockey stick with Runes is a bit more of a Stave or Spear.
Name your stick âGungnirâ
I had one but in japanese. It said Chicken Soup
This kinda makes me think of those princess hat things (actually called hennins) and how they were actually worn by noblewomen in the middle ages, mostly in France
I think not all dyes were expensive. The ones derived from mollusks were extremely labor intensive to produce and therefore very expensive but I think some plant based ones were much less so and thus available to many common people too.
Onion skins are easy to dye with and plentiful.đ
Common madder gives vibrant shades of red, and has been found in viking age york (likely used for dyeing).
Woad gives jeans-y blue-cyan shades.
Ochrolechia Tartarea/Cudbear and Evernia Prunastri give purples/lilacs.
Weld/Dyer's weld gives yellow, which was combined with Woad's blue to give "Lincoln green" ("'Robin-Hood-green'")
All of these were used and quite easily available in europe.
I think the reason the crown stereotype survived so long despite no crowns actually looking like that was the fact that it was simpler to draw and still got the point across since most crowns at least had some points along the sides in the form of decorations. It's essentially like saying "long time no see" instead of "I haven't seen you in a while" because it's easier, despite the fact that it's a primitive and outdated sentence.
afaik the phrase "long time no see" comes from an English-based pidgin that used to be used in Southern China in the 19th century
Also royal tiaras worn by women in royal families ARE spiky crowns.
With the beards, I'd actually guess that it's to do with a mix of "virility" and wealth. Being able to grow a long beard fully and actually maintain it (which I can personally attest is a pretty big pain) would be a huge show of wealth since keeping it groomed requires actual time and effort. I'd hazard a guess that just the few (bi)weekly hours needed to care for a beard nowadays would be much longer in centuries past where clean, rushing water was a heavenly luxury and... tonics, you could say, were either expensive and ineffective or just non-existent. Plus, if you could keep that beard full well into your old age, it'd be a way of saying that you're still sprightly in some regards and thus capable to rule.
That's good analysis!
@@JJMcCullough There is also the impression that someone with a big beard is someone dutiful and wise, usually done in more benevolent depictions of kings since they are supposed to be respected as the most powerful person of a kingdom with a huge responsability on their backs.
I'd say the beard simply stands for "adult, mature man". Plus Egypt had a certain style of beard as official part of regalia, including some fake ones. Also, maybe some kings were paranoid enough not to let anyone near their throat with a razor.
purple is the colour of royalty due to how rare and valuable the dye was. nowadays we have artificial ways of making purple dye but the only purple dye that used to be available costs around $2,500 per gram today
Love the conspiracy theory about Big Colour being behind Royal Purple! Careful though, Big Colour has its tentacles everywhere...
On a sidenote, the spiked crown being seen as "radiating light" might have some connexion to the cult of Sol Invictus that is most associated with the Emperor Aurelian, and in the coins ive seen of that era the Emperor is wearing just the spikes, no wreath. I associate the wreath more with the early Principate.
Didnât Nero depict himself with the âradiating lightâ crown. Thatâs early principate.
What about the different stock villains, such as the undead sorcerer and the grand vizear/chancellor? You can find a lot of villains that look like either Skeletor or Jafar. Plus, I think Skeletor would look awesome in your art style.
Great video as always. Really enjoy the cartoon related videos.
I thought he was going to scrutinize a new king game that GrayStillPlays recently played. I was like I'm into this! Lol either way, I love the history â€ïž
12:47 The scepter originates from the rod, which is mention in the Bible associated with rulers. Probably it came from the shepherd's crook and symbolized the shepherding of the people. It is said that Jesus will rule them with an iron rod.
JJ, you shudve delved deeper into "why purple?" bcuz the fact that it is so rare is why it gained an eventual rep of bein a noble colour. Heres a tidbit from the eastern roman empire durin the reign of Justinian and Theodora.
"According to Procopius, at a meeting of the government council, Theodora spoke out against leaving the palace and underlined the significance of someone who died as a ruler instead of living as an exile or in hiding, saying, "royal purple is the noblest shroud"
Also, that rarity of dye for makin purple didnt only last thru roman times; it lasted until the mid 1800s.
Why are there no paintings of kings wearing purple?
@@JJMcCullough 1. As discussed above, it might just be, that artists used red to symbolize purple, creating a vicious cycle, whereby kings would see portraits of their ancestors wearing red, and conclude, that red looked even better, than purple.
2. Another colour that featured prominently in royal garments was ultramarine blue - associated with virgin Mary, and hideously expensive.
3. I think that red might just have taken over as "the shade of purple" that everyone ended up wearing, when it became necessary to brand other things as royal (the most notable example being the British royal guards "scarlet tunics" - scarlet being associated with the royal purple. (although - fun fact - in the British army a blue uniform served to signal a unit's close proximity to the king (for example the cavalry regiment of the blues and royals, or artillery regiments before they all got the standard camo look)
@@JJMcCullough The most famous portrait of Emperor Justinian is actually him wearin purple robes
What I picture when I think of typical cartoon king usually uses red instead of purple. For some reason red and gold have always seemed more common royal in my head than purple and gold.
I'd love to see a breakdown of fantasy characters like elves and dwarfs.
I remember I analyzed "why kings look like that" in high school when we were discussing Matejko's paintings and the school book explicitly explained that kings didn't go around wearing ceremonial clothes but that Matejko painted them with those on or otherwise the king would blend in with the rest of the crowd too much.
Much like they do nowadays--they typically just look like another stereotypical upper-class person.
Seeing as how Christmas is coming up; I think you should go over the various looks of Santa Claus around the world. The Father Christmas version looks a lot like Santa Christ from Nostalgia Critic.
He's actually already done a video on other versions of Santa Claus.
czcams.com/video/Tg56GO6ISCU/video.html&pp=ugMICgJlcxABGAE%3D
@@guillemedina7908 there's actually a lot more santas than the ones pictured in that video. I wanted a video with ALL of them. Three out of twenty something isn't all.
J.J.: âCan you think of another cartoon character that youâd like to see me deconstruct?â
My mind: âDonât say Stripperella, donât say Stripperella.â
Me: â ummmmm⊠*Yoshi* â
đ€„
So the purple snail-based dye is also traditionally thought to be used on the Jewish tallis (or tallit) - sometimes described as a "prayer shawl" (which isn't quite right - but close enough). Well for the better part of 2,000 years or so this was impossible, because the snails were thought to be extinct.
In the 1980s (I think) a small colony of them were found living in the coastal waters of Caesarea in Israel. (This has it's own irony, being a city built by Rome as a Roman powerbase in Judea. As you noted, Rome also knew of this snail.) Now the stuff is available at great expense - the snails are farmed, but growing out a large enough population is a whole thing of its own. Some Jewish groups now demand this dye, most take the view that "other dyes were good enough for centuries, we can wait until this stuff is farmed out to provide large sustainable harvests" and still others that "other dyes are still good enough, get over yourself."
I don't know that there's a video in that, but it's interesting all the same.
But for the prayer shawl it's actually blue, not purple (though "blue and purple" is a common phrase in hebrew)...
Also, no. They didn't use "other dyes", they just kept it in its undyed white state...
Would love to see a similar analysis about the stereotypical pirate look!
I'd love to see you deconstruct 'The Artist' (black turtleneck , sunglasses and beret / generic French guy with moustache) or 'The Nerd' (glasses, suspenders,etc)
Im also an illustrator and I've loved your videos talking about the universal/western visual shorthand we use for things, especially the video you made about the symbols for toys đ„đ§žâœđ
During the 15th century, due to the fall of Constantinople, Tyrian purple (made from snails) was replaced by scarlet red (made from insects) as the colour for royalty.
Purple was still used by scholars and religious important people, but it was made with indigo (made from plants) and red.
Red became the royal colour.
In the 19th century, purple could be chemically made and mass produced. The English king, and in 1953 the queen, made use of it. Purple for kings seems to be a British thing.
We all know who the real King is. Long live JJ the first!
That single inserted frame did not go unnoticed.
Love these type of videos, great job!
I think an interesting topic could be the stereotypical depiction of the devil/ or demons as a red guy with horns and a pitchfork
Ooh thatâs a good idea
Along the same vein, it would also be interesting to see how Western culture has depicted God (in human form).
And a tail with an arrowhead point.
@@JJMcCullough you might check out Offhand Disney's recent video, it covers some of the visual tropes of the pop-culture Devil: czcams.com/video/g83ohj-rFAY/video.html
@@JJMcCullough TedEd already did that.
âHad a high animal body countâ âWith emperors making their sticks bigger and bigger overtimeâ
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I think an aspect of the beard that you missed is that a beard means that the king is quite old. A king that has ruled presumably from early adulthood or eve childhood to the point that they are able to grow a thick and even white beard means that they are healthy, well liked and competent, things that the ideal king should be.
âIf your outfit had a high animal body count that was also considered a real sign that you were something special.â
Iâm going to hell for laughing at that. I hope they have bubble tea.
I think the beard thing is because Kings rule till death so a long well groomed white beard represents strength and wisdom as you were able to survive long into your reign. Kinda Like how in Sparta elders were treated with high respect because being old means that you've been able to survive all the wars that you go through which implies strength and renown.
Itâs also a masculine symbol. Kings as an archetype demand a certain level of Masculinity.
Big beards are an easy way to get that across in a cartoon.
@@captainl-ron4068 Is the King necessarily stereotyped as particularly masculine? I feel nobles (though kings somewhat less so) are usually portrayed as somewhat effeminate.
Very cool Video! Just have to point out a small mistake, at 5:32, you actually depicted the Museum of Art History in Vienna (which, as a Fun Fact, looks identically to the Natural History Museum of Vienna)! The Imperial Treasury would be located a bit further off at the Hofburg, which is the former imperial palace of the Habsburgs :)
I think it should have been noted that playing cards almost always feature a king who is bearded, whereas the Jack (or Knave) is clean-shaven. Also playing card kings are good examples of the kingly robes, scepters, and crowns.
I would say that beards also have to do with age, and kings contrast with princes. The prince is always clean shaven, the king is older and has had time to grow a decent beard.
In high school history my class was assigned a book for extra credit call "A Perfect Red" about red becoming the royal color in the Early Modern Period after a particularly striking red was found in the New World.
I always love how I will literally never be able to guess what the next vid you make it. Love this quality 'tent!
As far as I know, the original "purple" made from a dye harvested from sea snails wasn't necessarily what we call purple today. It was more on a spectrum somewhere between blue and red.
For European kings this spectrum seems to have tended towards red.
The topic of Final Fantasy made me think of other fantasy based characters and thier looks. Things like knights who looked different from the modern cartoony depictions of them, and wizards with large conical hats. In the same way that everyone knows real Vikings never wore horned helmets, yet we never question why they're depicted with them to begin with.
About the purple: I study early European music manuscripts. Lots of music from the Middle Ages and renaissance periods that we have existing copies of were written for royalty. It was quite common to see lots of purple and gold ornamenting the music, so Iâm also surprised itâs not in more of the paintings of kings. Now I need to go back and see if the manuscripts had as much purple as I remember. Complicating matters, Iâm colorblind and canât see purple đ
There's actually an all-purple store at a tourist store in Myrtle Beach (PURPLEologist). It's got all kinds of purple accessories, home decor, and clothing. For those purple lovers out there đ
Wait, there's The Purple Store at Pike Place in Seattle too! What a weirdly specific thing to exist in completely separate places
That's what that place is?! It's just a short drive from my house, but I never took the time to really ponder what they purvey. I usually just walk past it on my way to The Spice and Tea exchange in Barefoot
@@Zagill is it called PURPLEologist? Perhaps it's a franchise
@@wyattlewis4069 yes it's in Barefoot Landing! đ. My wife and daughter's favorite color is purple, so they were in their glory LOL
@@waynemontpetit8181 nope, literally called "The Purple Store"
I think a great video idea that ties into "the king" character would be a video about common western archetypes. I'm sure you would have plenty of fun drawing these archetypes in your own style!
A "bearded king" could also be a sign of a "wise king" because good kings are always wise!
Visual shorthand fascinates me đ
Oh, and I really like the way they portray burglars in Japan.
Itâs totally different than the masked person that I grew up with in Australia/ America
How do they potray them in Japan?
@@shirleymaemattthews4862 they tie a handkerchief over their face knot side forward and carry a big patterned santa sized sack
I think the facial hair also evokes an impression of age and experience, since we would hope at least that a king would be wise
JJ uploading on thursday feels illegal
Beards are also associated with wisdom because people with white beards are old and presumably wise. Maybe that's where the beard is coming from.
I dont know if its only me, but I find the facial hair of a man conveys experience/wisdom in the sense that most males need to be fully grown before they can even grow a proper beard. Without it the king may look too young and immature.
A lot of the purple being connected to royalty derives not just from the ancient romans, but their Byzantine successors as well. In fact, if a reigning emperor had a child, that child was given the honorific "Porphyrogenitus" meaning "Born in the purple" either because the children were delivered in a special room in the palace ordained in purple fabrics and paints, or because the parents of the child were always covered in purple.
Where did you learn that?
@@JJMcCullough I know you dislike Wikipedia, but this claim is iron-clad sourced. The account of the purple room comes from a primary account "The Alexiad" written by a Byzantine Princess in the 12th century. You can find the specific information in books 6 and 7:
"Nicephorus and Leo, the two sons of the Emperor Diogenes, who were born to him in the purple room after his elevation to the throne and were consequently styled " Porphyrogeniti." This purple room was a certain building in the palace shaped as a complete square from its base to the spring of the roof, which ended in a pyramid; it looked out upon the sea and the harbour where the stone oxen and lions stand. The floor of this room was paved with marbles and the walls were panelled with it but not with ordinary sorts nor even with the more expensive sorts which are fairly easy to procure, but with the marble which the earlier Emperors had carried away from Rome. And this marble is, roughly speaking, purple all over except for spots like white sand sprinkled over it. It is from this marble, I imagine, that our ancestors called the room ' purple.'" - Anna Comnena, The Alexiad, Book VII "War with the Scyths (1087-90)"
Why not a queen for the next one? But probably only as a CZcams short, because there are a lot of the same themes as with the king stock character (e.g. anachronistic clothing and personal grooming).
Wizards draped in robes with various astronomical bodies and constellations and big pointy hats to match would be an obvious choice, but I'd also suggest taking a look at depictions of professional fools and jesters, which seem to be mostly influenced by theatre rather than actual custom??
How about "the princess"?
That is even more common clichee than "the king". In pretty much every fairy tale you rescue a princess, or try to marry one, and they always look pretty similar.
If you are deconstructing classical trope characters I would love to see your take on knights and princesses. Very common in our western storytelling and very close to the King.
The reason why purple is royal colour is the eastern roman empire. Those born to the royal family with legitimate roots would be called porphyrogenitus (born to purple) and so purple. It ended in 1453 with the last roman emperor of the east dying. Later purple dyes were used more in the middle east, levant, central Asia and Anatolia, and they weren't seen as very Christian because Muslim rulers were the ones to use them. In Russia, it was still a thing with Romanovs adapting the colour purple as their house colour, and on many maps, Russia was coloured purple as well, as they claimed to be the continuation of the eastern roman empire.
What I find sorta interesting about JJâs purple theory is that when I conjure a king in my head I always think of a deep red color for both the crown and the robe. The purple equals royalty connection is there cause I vividly remember reading about the sea snails, but for me the image of a medieval European king is primarily clad in crimson.
Also Iâve always wondered about where the white fur with black dots came from so Iâm glad I know now.
The king stereotypes with cape, crown and scepters is the same as with the pirate stereotypes in many cartoons and video games use: A wooden peg leg, a parrot on the shoulder, eye patches and often says many slangs like "Yar!"
I enjoy how JJ's videos seem part historical and cultural knowledge from across civilizations to answer a questions we never really cared to have the answer too. Truly another award winning video
That's why i'm an advocate of learning as much History as possible. You will understand the world you live in if you know what came before
Perhaps purple fell out of status because after the age of exploration, red could have became the new expensive color. Being sourced from cochineal exclusively almost by the Spanish trade (harvested mostly from Mexico) , it was just as expensive and exclusive, but widely more available than snail.
Great episode.
In regards to the scepter, I through it was a derivative of a weapon as a sign of power and authority.
Like how the British Parliament or the US Senate have Mallets to signify their authority so does a king have a sceptre to signify theirs.
Also since Kings derive their power from the divine it could also be a worldly equivalent to the Bishops Staff or be a symbol of the king as defender of the Faith.
Itâs a Mace.
Former art history major here on the purple robe stereotype:
If you look at a hundred portraits of kings throughout history there is a huge variety of colors in their clothing.
In painting theory, it was generally espoused at least as early as the Italian renaissance that the color red should be in the center of the painting because it draws the eye.
Blue was the most expensive pigment, as it was made of lapis lazuli, imported from far away Afghanistan.
So you end up seeing a lot of red and blue in pictures of kings for those two reasons, but also every other color because just having a diversity of pigments was a status
Symbol.
BUT: fabric dye is not always the same as the pigment used in painting.
Its chemically a different process than dyeing cloth.
I kind of want to believe your marketing theory on purple for this reason, even people like Vasari, (founder of European art history circa 1500 in Florence) doesn't really mention purple as far as I remember. He mentions red and blue specifically, and gold.
But the ancient Romans did prize purple because its mentioned in contemporary sources. There is archaeological evidence for murex shell processing for the purpose of fabric dye in classical Greece as well.
I've never heard of the relation between purple and royalty outside of an English context. So the British connection might be right.