WTF Happened to X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX (2019)?
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 05. 2022
- 2019’s X-Men: Dark Phoenix was supposed to be the movie that finally did justice to one of the comic’s most celebrated storylines, the Dark Phoenix Saga by Chris Claremont and John Byrne. It had already been done, to disastrous effect, in 2006’s X-Men 3: The Last Stand. Writer-director Simon Kinberg made his directorial debut with this, taking over for Bryan Singer, whose career imploded in the years following X-Men: Apocalypse. While there’s no doubt everyone went in with the right intentions, Dark Phoenix went down with a thud when it opened in the summer of 2019. The box office was disastrous, only grossing $65 million domestically, which is a nightmarish haul for a movie that cost at least $200 million.
Notably, the fan reaction was terrible, with many saying this take on the Dark Phoenix storyline was only marginally better than the one in The Last Stand. Initially set to kick off a new trilogy, that plan had already been scuttled by the time Dark Phoenix hit theatres. In the time since the movie was filmed and got released, Fox had been sold to Disney, meaning that if the X-Men returned, they would be part of the MCU. When this came out, everyone involved seemed to realize this was the last hurrah for this iconic version of the X-Men, but the reaction from fans was that this heavily re-shot and re-cut movie sent the franchise out with a whimper rather than a bang. So what went wrong? Plenty, as you’ll find out in WTF Happened to X-Men: Dark Phoenix, which is written by Gaius Bolling, edited by Cesar Gabriel, and narrated by Mathew Plale. Is X-Men: Dark Phoenix as bad as they say? Let us know in the comments!
For more MOVIE NEWS, visit: www.joblo.com
SUBSCRIBE for more of all the LATEST JoBlo Videos here: goo.gl/R9U81J
#xmendarkphoenix #darkphoenix #wtfhappenedtothismovie - Zábava
I always think there are 2 main reasons the 2 versions fail to tell the story well... Firstly the gradual turnimg of Jean should be hinted at over a few films, with the final part ideally occurring over 2 films... And secondly the focus of the films needs to have more focus on Cyclops and Jean than they seem to want to give them
Big time. The JEAN GREY arc would be over multiple X-MEN films. Its like putting DOOMSDAY and killing off Superman in one movie. Makes zero sense.
The X-Men movies never seemed to get that X-Men is, at least in part, a soap opera.
The movie needs to be build up to like Infinity War & Endgame its hinted at but isn't the main focus up until the finale, They need to get us the audience need to actually care about Jean Grey & Scott (Something the films don't even attempt to do) & lastly to tell the full story it needs to be told in 2 movies you can't tell everything that happens in it all in one movie or you will leave out many things.
@@DamienNightwing that's literally batman v superman
Uh, Jean destroying a planet was an accident. She was just a drug addict that got reckless when she was high. She never really turned evil, that is just a misconception among people who have never actually took the time to read the story.
It's true that if there's one franchise that has the potential to top Avengers box office it would be X-Men. I have high hopes for a future reboot.
The train scene in Dark Phoenix was great though.
Honestly, they managed to have an ok first gen, a reboot that overly didnt suck. I don't think another one is gonna do us any good. Especially not with the quality of marvel movies lately.
The mental tug of war of Jean vs Professor X USING CEREBRO was another badass scene, one of my favorite scenes in the entire franchise
Oh man that train fight scene was one of the best superhero fight scenes period.
Lets not worry about topping the box office, and just have a movie with something resembling coherent writing. X-Men: The Last Stand had 3 plots going on in it with no coherency, although it did well enough because of the cure plot. I have not seen Dark Phoenix so maybe I should not be commenting on it but by the looks of the trailer, it seem like they were trying to fit all all the belongings of your home into a Suburban, cut enough things up and it sort of works. They never get it right anyways, Phoenix is not about the Phoenix, it is about Jean Grey becoming less 'boring', you know, more like comic 'Rogue'. Where it is at it could always get worse but I think Marvel will do fine.
After Days of Future Past, it's as though Fox sort of...stopped caring? The timelines established in prior films didn't seem to matter anymore, the scripts were not nearly as engaging, the direction seemed off, and the actors didn't feel engaged anymore.
Even Deadpool made fun of the timeline stuff.
"We're taking you to Xavier."
"McAvoy or Stewart? These alternate timelines are so confusing."
Exactly and the ending with Wolverine in Days Of Future Past made no sense in Apocalypse.
@@dericjames2018 the ending made me think we might get 1 more go with the original cast. It could’ve been the exact same film, but put the originals, would’ve been better
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… The Dark Phoenix, or the Phoenix saga cannot be told in one film.
It took multiple comic book issues to complete that story arc. For those of us that remember, the TV show took at least a month to finish telling that story. It was a lot to take in.
Thankful for the analysis. I now know that Simon Kinberg is not entirely to blame, and I have to give him credit for taking responsibility.
All in all, it’s good to see that I’m not the only person who believed that the story should be told through multiple films. We all agreed on some thing.
To be fair, the movie is meant to be adaptation of Jean/Phoenix's origin, not the full saga. The sequel was suppose to adapt the rest of the saga. Jean didn't even become Phoenix until at the end of the movie.
@@agentofchaos7456 I tried to give it a chance, but it felt so flat
@@srami004 That's fine. I'm just saying that it is not an adaptation of the full saga.
I 100% agree
@@erickburrell9448 It is isn't a really valid point though.
Michael Fassbender, that Mcavoy guy and Hans Zimmer were the only redeeming things. Sophie Turner couldn't act her way out of an awkward conversation. As for Jennifer Lawrence... what a miscast.
Her Mystique makeup looks terrible in this movie.
Even the make up from First Class is lacking…. It’s a flat blue with no variation
Jennifer Lawrence was the highest paid actress in Hollywood 2015 and 2016 so by the time this was in preproduction, she was a super hot commodity. I’m shocked they got her to sign back on after the first trilogy, and even more so that she agreed to get in makeup. It was the right call limiting her role in this wholly forgettable film. Honestly, they should have figured out how to oust her in the previous film since she was nearly unusable in Dark Phoenix.
@@TheElectricMayhem they should have just recast her. NOBODY would have minded at all.
Eh Lawrence was fine, she was given a terrible script to work with that affected her performance
And the fact that the Original 3rd Act was completly cut out is a crime against humanity. Jean Gray sacrificing herself to save the earth and her family from the Skrulls invasion, was a way more emotional ending.
I want to see the 1st cut so badly
Should’ve stopped after Logan👌🏽and concluded the entire saga with him
Same💯💯💯. Logan was the true ending and it should have stayed that way
@@chasehedges6775 By far the best comic book film ever made, though what makes it so good is that it is barely belongs to that genre.
@@kl7985 It’s a superhero western
@@chasehedges6775 I'd say it's a Western with a superhero world for background, but yeah, that's why it's sooo much better than anything Marvel etc will do.
@@kl7985 💯💯
Worst offender was the decade-jumping trope that didn't come along with aging characters. It was insulting.
This movie shoved *1983* and *1992* in your face so much and yet gave us such superficial and polished interpretations of it. Virtually zero 90s energy is felt in this film, aside from the technology used by civilians and the prologue. Even Dazzler was ruined.
what about the actors who aged in reverse? magic!
I agree we needed another film with the older cast
As a 12yo X-Men Comic fan, I always liked "NIGHTCRAWLER" due to his abilities and his role in the Team.
He was also my favorite in the 1980's Cartoon (Saturday Morning).
I loved that we FINALLY saw him in this film, but his parts and interaction was VERY SMALL...
I'm hoping for more regarding his character in the future, if there is to be one.
Thanks,
-T🖖
Yeah night crawlers power is one of the more interesting ones. Could do so much with him
No we need more from characters like Rogue, Emma Frost, and Psylocke
@@thesquad2253 as long as January Jones isn't involved
The Dark Phoenix story needs a series, not a movie. I think that the X-Men need time for character development, so a serialized setting is ideal for audiences to get to know the characters. They should do the movies as season finales...
Dark Phoenix was an adaptation of Jean/Phoenix's origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga. The initial promotions and the people who worked on the movie have said this.
Which one? Marvel has only retconned Dark Phoenix/Phoenix 25 times in the last 40 years.
@@lutherheggs451 Yeah. I alluded to this in another post. Many people think it was the power alone that made Jean into the Dark Phoenix because of the Avengers vs X-Men story, which ignored decades worth of lore just to create an excuse for a fight.
That actually played a role in the criticisms against this movie.
It should have been a two part movie
@@spyder-man0462 It was.
Its fascinating to realize XMen The Last Stand ended up the better film. Also John Powell’s score for the film is one of the most underrated scores in film history.
X men The Last is more watchable
You really believe the X-Men: The Last Stand was a better representation of mental illness? Because I've seen mental health experts say that those types of portrayals are utter BS and creates stigma against the mentally ill.
Dark Phoenix was a way better portrayal of someone descending into madness.
@@chasehedges6775 I would argue that Last Stand is a worse take on mental health issues.
@@agentofchaos7456 I would say that it is worse all round.... at least DP has the train scene, nothing memorable in LS (other than Beast :) )
@@agentofchaos7456 i think thats fair it’s flaws are all there, but for me its always represented a sort’ve Superhero Soap Opera, including the dramatic score. For me it just coalesces better than Dark Phoenix and for all its flaw its keeps a forward momentum that Dark Phoenix doesn’t seem interested in. Also Ian McKellen is infinitely more watchable than….Vuk.
Saw it in theatres because, well, Ive seen them all in the theatre. The timeline is screwed in this, if you follow everything. Like majorly. But if it was a stand alone, first movie and wrapped up on its own, its good. But if you are trying to connect it to the rest, all you do is scratch your head
The soundtrack was so good it made me not hate the film. One of Zimmer's best IMO.
I found the score seemed somewhat out of place. Grand for a not-so-grand movie.
So for me….some of the problems with both X-men film series; they focused too much on one particular actor. Hugh Jackman in the first and Jennifer Lawrence in the second. They became stars so their respective series did backflips to keep them front and center, even if it didn’t make sense for the plot.
I also think that they were trying to do to much all at once and lost a particular narrative throughout all of the movies. So every movie felt completely different from the one before it.
One of the biggest irritations comes from the fact that the Phoenix isn't even entirely Jean's power, it's an entity all its own and an incredibly powerful one at that. Yeah, Jean completely loses herself as the power takes her over, but the whole of the saga is far more than just her loss of control.
It was originally written to be entirely Jean's full power unleashed.
Going back to 2000, the first X-Men opened the door for the modern era of superhero films. X2 followed up as I think one of the better sequels of all time. After that, it just hurts how screwed up it became.
X2 and Days of Future past are hands down the best X-Men films out of all of them...Logan was excellent too but im only referring to X-men team movies.
False. Blade was the first one
Blade was an obscure comic book character…. It was a Wesley Snipes vehicle….. it wasn’t “Marvel’s Blade”…..
Blade was far more important. So was Batman 1989 and the original Superman. X-Men 2000 blows.
@@edwardelric603 youre right x men 2000 did kinda suck
Don't blame Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn for stuffing so much characters in THE LAST STAND
That was probably AVI ARAD's call so he could sell more toys
Considering that he stepped in as main producer for the 3rd movie after working as executive producer for the first two movies
Makes sense since the plot kept shoving the fact the X-Men had become a “brand” and a “product” by 1992. The Nightcrawler action figure was VERY on the nose.
He was also responsible for Spider Man 3 becoming mess that it became, by tossing in Sandman, Venom, and the "New Gobblin", and making Peter act like a jerk, while having the Symbiote Costume on beneath his clothes.
@@johnosbourn4312 #IBlameAviArad
You blame him for everything.
@@joehorn1762 Well, his presence does jeoperdize everything
Just look at Morbius
This is a blast from the past! I was following the pre-, -production, and post-production of this movie and I knew it was going to be a "miss." But never in my wildest dreams did I think this would fail this spectacularly. Thank you for the very detailed goings-on of this production. And you're right! This movie's innumerable problems started with hiring the writer of The Last Stand and allowing him to make his directorial debut. What a facepalming decision for Fox. We need more content reminding people how it's never a good idea to hire Kinberg for these things. He has largely skirted the blame for spectacularly crashing the X-Men movie franchise and was even hired by Chastain to direct her next girl power movie when (1) she could've hired a female director (2) her friend wasn't a competent writer/director. Last time I checked, her movie The 355 had an even lower critical Rottentomatoes score than Dark Phoenix, if that was even possible!
Ouch!
I loved this movie ❤❤❤
Man, your post didn't age well. First off: Matthew Vaughn was also one of the writers on X-Men: The Last Stand and he directed/wrote X-Men: First Class. Marvel is also making a Deadpool/Wolverine movie with the original cast and it is confirmed to be a continuation of the X-Men movie franchise. So the notion that Kinberg crashed the franchise is completely false.
Rotten Tomatoes is also not a good source for criticism. Especially with the recent news.
@@johnosbourn4312 This is a poorly aged comment.
X-Men First Class was awesome. Matthew Vaughn rarely disappoints.
Did you know that it was Simon Kinberg was the one who pitched Vaughn to direct the movie?
He saw Kick-Ass and saw that he was perfect for X-Men
Except for the King’s man 🙃
@@taharoahuri2820 Pretty sure that's why he said "Rarely".
@@justaguy7230 I would add Kingmsan The Golden Circle as well... which means 1: he has been on a slide recently as they are his last two features.... and 2. that is still a 28% failure rate... not exactly rare
@@mattyt1961 Sounds fair. I'll wait until his next release, and if it sucks, we'll say he's lost it.
I remember reading how Dark Phoenix was supposed to be a 2 film story, shot back-to-back, but Fox decided to make it 1 movie
It wasn't Fox, it was Disney that pulled the plug
@@Zombiesnyder13 it was fox. Fox owned the rights before it went back to Disney.
The film WAS indeed meant to be a two film arc shot back to back. But the ending was too similar to Captain Marvel, and by then it was too late to write a better ending. With Jean being too much alike Captain Marvel in defeating the Dbarri like the Kree, the rewrite and reshoot weakened an already tepid fan base.
It should had been 2 movies rather 1 if they had learned what Infinity had done with the Avengers movies who knows Fox could had given Disney a middle finger to not buy out their studio.
I’d MUCH rather waste my time on just one garbage movie than 2.
It’s better this was put out of it’s misery.
They were never going to top Days of Future Past.
The best way to do Dark Phoenix IMO is to spread it out to several films. One where we get to know Jean Grey as Marvel Girl with her telekinesis and some telepathic abilities, one where she becomes Phoenix, preferably one at her Phoenix power levels, then Dark Phoenix. If she's going to play bit parts in several other films, a'la a lot of Marvel characters in the MCU I think this is made much easier.
As for the problems, I'm not convinced Kinberg really knows the original story that well. From my viewpoint he seems to be more fixated on the short story in Bizarre Adventures #27 where we see a young Jean Grey suddenly tap in to her telepathic powers and is unprepared for the strength of them and Professor X has to come in and put mental blocks on her powers. That was not a story point in the original Dark Phoenix Saga but as it was a big point in bother movies where they attempted the story I'm assuming it's a big thing for Kinberg. FWIW neither was Jean Grey as Phoenix being retconned into having been the Phoenix Force duplicating her and leaving her at the bottom of Hudson Bay either, but that's just an aside.
The original Dark Phoenix Saga was Jean losing control of her powers after weeks or months of Mastermind/Jason Wyngarde seducing her with a Romance Novel-like illusory world where he had her experience and do things that were worse and worse. As a result she went evil/lost her mind/however you want to look at it. The X-Men were able to subdue her and Professor X was able to reinstall mental blocks to her powers, but things went further haywire because of something she'd done as Phoenix (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Phoenix_Saga)
Marvel Girl era Jean was a terrible character though and no one cared about the Silver Age X-Men.
My problem starts with Jean Grey being played by Sophie Turner. Jean Grey needs to be introduced and build the character.
What has the actress casting to do with build up?
@@RodrickMarsMoon Sophie Turner isn't that good of actress and she didn't make believable Jean Grey. Her performance was rather wooden. The Actress in this case wasn't good enough for the main role can bring problems to the movie because they have to carry the film. If the acting is really good you can carry the movie even the story was weak. Case in point Jonny Depp and Ryan Reynolds for Jack Sparrow and Deadpool.
@@RodrickMarsMoon her American accent was painfully bad
@@WhitneyAllisonGG I agree w u so much. Sophie turner is never gonna happen. She had one good role that played off her corpse like acting and unless her next role is an autopsy model she won’t be darkening our theaters for awhile lol
LOL, I don't ever want to see Sophie Turner or Jennifer Lawrence again
Much like John Powell's score in X-Men The Last Stand and now Hans Zimmer with Dark Phoenix these were the best scores of the X-Men FOX films.
Also, props to Kinberg for owning up to all that. I give my respect there that he's not going with the Disney spin method of "No, we weren't the problem, it's the audience and their unreasonable expectations that are!" in their regards to their products not clicking with more people.
In one podcast they talked about how the movie was about Jean struggling with suppressed trauma/PTSD (it is explicitly stated in the promotions and in the movie itself) and how many people misread Jean's situation thinking she was possessed. They weren't wrong either because a lot of reviews claim Jean is possessed in the movie (such as Doug Walker aka Nostalgia Critic in his review from last year). It is a pretty common misconception about the comics too and that is likely why many people misread the premise of the movie.
Sorry there is no "Disney spin method" of the fans are the problem.......The low IQ brain dead fans are literally the problem, thats why you had imbeciles attacking Brie Larson, Daisy Ridley, Kelly Marie Tran, now specifically Moses Ingram etc.....
But you clearly speak like one of those "special" people who listens to the grifter trash like Dumbcuck with his urinal mask, Nerdrotic the 55 year old surrounded by toys, Mecharandumb42 nuff said, Midnight's Dredge etc...The usual losers who attack anything as "woke" if it stars a woman, woman of color, has a woman beat a man in a fight/lightsber fight etc.....The pathetically insecure people who constantly cry about the destruction of "our historical documents"....
Its pathetic and sad grifters like that know their low IQ imbecile audience will make with the paymetons and superchats for telling them how white men are being oppressed.
He could've played that card with The Last Stand. But Dark Phoenix was his second failed attempt at the Dark Phoenix saga. At that point, all he could do was own up to it.
@@DavidKen878 Uh, Dark Phoenix was an adaptation of Jean/Phoenix's origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga.
Also, Simon Kinberg was not director of The Last Stand. He was just one of three co-writers. Writers have less power than a director.
@@agentofchaos7456 Whether The Last Stand was an origin story or the full story, it was still a bad movie with a bad story. Even as one of the two writers and not the director, the movie still sucked. Brett Ratner may have made changes to the plot structure, but the plot was still there. And seeing as how he wasn't there when Simon and Zak Penn wrote the script, you can't blame Brett for the movie not doing well.
YES finally !! Been waiting 2 years for this video.
Regardless of hearing the bad reviews, I wanted to see the X-Men one last time, at least to enjoy the little things
Like the sense of individuality and Hans Zimmer's score
the film score for this movie is amazeballs
I think the issue that arises from these epic Xmen series(and comics in general) is that we spend so much time while reading them, we get to know so much about everything involved( characters, plot, motivations, villians, themes, consequences, lore, history, et cetra) that these movies simply cannot measure up. The MCU and the Dark Knight Trilogy stand out to me so much because the films( and therefore the characters within) are for the most part given time to breath and grow into the stories we loved reading. Dark Phoenix, Age of Apocalypse, Days of Future Past, House of M, God Loves Man Kills, E is for Extinction, Old Man Logan....all really deserve thier own set of movies, and Fox so far has been unwilling to do so.
The film went through a complicated production due to the merge of 20th Century Fox and Disney and as a consequence, the original plan of a two-films version (confirmed by Simon Kinberg, Chris Claremont and Josh Boone) had to be massively reduced to one film. The ideas that Simon Kinberg initially had, were discarded and hardly compacted. Losing key elements of the comics and also making it complex to depict in a single installment. Originally the two films would be shot consecutively, therefore two major sets were built first (the New York set for The Part One and the United Nations scenario for The Part Two).
Hopefully the sets got recycled for another film! it would be a shame to build several huge sets, then tear it all down and throw it out later instead of sellingn it to another studio or re using it in house
A certain scene in multiverse of madness gave me more hope for the X-men being awesome in films again than the entirety of this dark Phoenix movie.
I don't have much hope left for Marvel rn but NOTHING could be worse then this movie lol
Watch Spider-Man no way home and multiverse of madness. It will change your mind.
@@Masterho310 watched both, no way Home was great but multiverse of madness was a HUGE dissapointment for me.
Oh I felt the opposite about multiverse of madness. Went in with zero expectation and was blown away by how good it was.
Did you think the premise of this movie was suppose to be about Jean being possessed and the X-Men having to fight her? I ask because I've notice that this is a pretty misconception.
I respectfully disagree with your comments regarding the acting performances, Sophie Turner’s performance was woeful and Jennifer Lawrence seemed to phone in her performance. Overall it was a poor film from start to finish, with a confusing time line as Professor X and Magneto haven’t seemed to have aged in relation to the characters. Just my opinion ☺️
Agreed. Those 2 actresses were both horrible. Lawrence had decided that she was already too popular to put on the blue paint properly.
@@myeung6666 That and nobody wanted to be there. Considering the script, can't say I blame them.
Agreed. The main 3 actresses were very wooden in this film. Hell no one seemed to want to be there.
I once envisioned the Dark Phoenix Saga as a film trilogy, and if Fox had the patience, money and talent to make it happen, then we as audiences could’ve been happy. However, I can totally see Marvel Studios doing their own take on it, I mean first we had The Infinity Saga, now The Multiverse Saga, the next step would obviously be The Phoenix Saga!
This movie was suppose to be the start of Dark Phoenix Saga trilogy.
15:25 Im sorry but why has who ever edited this have a graphic that says DOLL when the word being said is DULL!? That is just absurd for anyone to think the audio is saying “DOLL”? lol
The Fox X-men franchise officially died when Logan died (with Deadpool 2 being it’s own exception) this and New Mutants were the eccentric funerals.
The writer for Multiverse of Madness confirmed that the X-Men movie series was canon to the MCU multiverse.
*its own exception
@@agentofchaos7456 makes sense because multiverse
Very true but what's going to happen with Deadpool and Wolverine characters I wonder?
Although I saw this in the cinema. I did not see one ad for the film. I only knew because I love the xmen films. The marketing was defo part of the blame and the film is not half as bad as people make it out to be.
I really wish this film could’ve done so well! Phoenix is one of two of my all time favorite marvel characters! While I appreciate how amazing Famke’s Phoenix was, I liked that Dark Phoenix took more notes from the actual Phoenix Saga. It’s just really shitty that this was supposed to be a two part movie where she gets the Phoenix and becomes Dark Phoenix at the end of the first then in the second one learns to embrace the Phoenix and becomes something like White Phoenix and destroys the Skrulls who are about to invade earth. The only reason this movie turned out the way it did is because Disney had a discrepancy and said the ending of Dark Phoenix was too similar to Captain Marvel and they couldn’t have the Skrulls because they were in Captain Marvel. However, seeing as the two films were in completely separate movie universes, it should’ve been possible to have the good Skrulls in Captain Marvel and also have the bad Skrulls in Dark Phoenix. Not to mention Captain Marvel did horribly at the box office so in all actuality Dark Phoenix got screwed for absolutely nothing! Thanks a lot DISNEY!!!!
Well, I don't understand the low ratings of critics for this movie at all. I thought the movie was awesome, and the audience score is somewhat high.
From what you pointed out, the movie had huge production issues, but I'm evaluating the final product, not its creation process.
Indeed it does not have the cosmic aspects of the original saga, but I enjoyed the human aspects of it. If the director had to change the focus to make more money, that's with the investors I think.
It's a great X-men movie that I watched several times and I don't know what was so terrible about it.
I think one of the most important liabilities in the case of this particular production was the fact that the studio entrusted a 200 million dollar project to a first-time director.
That's quite a gamble, and a shortsighted one at that.
The thing is, Kinberg has had a long time partnership with Fox, in being the producer of the X-Men films since The Last Stand, producer of The Martian that earned him an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture, and have written X-Men Days of Future Past that gain a ton of money at the box office. Because of that i'm sure he was given a massive paycheck by Fox and thinking that because he has a good track record with producing the X-Men films, might aswell gave him a hundred million dollar project for a directorial debut. When he was announced as writer, i was actually pulling for it since he wrote the script for Days of Future Past brilliantly, when he was announced to be making his directorial debut that's where i kept my expectations very low
If anything Wanda's journey in the MCU from Infinity War to Multiverse of Madness is more akin to a proper Dark Phoenix-like story than Jean in both timelines.
If they were smart they would have taken a long approach to Dark Phoenix similar to Wanda. In Multiverse Wanda was already a villan but the why and how was already set up in previous movies and films. Dark Phoenix is really a long space epic so that would take multiple movies or a series to tell the story right. The She-ar empire is a series of its own just to explain that.
Have you read the Dark Phoenix Saga? Because the entire premise was about SHOWING Jean Grey's descent into madness and the Hellfire Club were the main villains of the story not her. That is NOT what Multiverse of Madness did with Wanda. Her descent into madness happened off-screen and she was the main villain.
@@sincerevybezent9189 Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. WandaVision ended with Wanda being at peace. Her becoming a villain came out of nowhere.
@@agentofchaos7456 Nah, go watch The end of Wanda Vision again. She clearly starts using the DarkHold and seeing visions of her kids in the Multiverse. If you were familiar with the comics at all you would know that the Dark Hold was said to corrupt everything it touches, that’s why in the movie her farm was a wasteland when she dropped the illusion spell. Her being a villain was easily foreshadowed if you payed attention to any details, or were halfway familiar with the source material you would know that the Scarlet Witch is usually a villain or at the very least has villain tendencies. If you missed that I’m sure you missed all the other Easter eggs in the movie for the direction their taking the franchise. I’m sure you probably think she died at the end of the film too huh? Lol. Watch again and pay closer attention.
@@agentofchaos7456 I KNOW that, idiot. Their are comparisons i can SEE. Do you understand?
I think the biggest problem is Jean Grey was never developed as a character! She’s only Wolverine’s love interest in the movies. Instead of developing her, and spreading the Dark Phoenix through several movies, they keep trying to squeeze it into one movie!
Except they didn't. Jean didn't become the Phoenix until at the end of the movie. This film was based on Jean/Phoenix origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga.
Just give me an epic 12 hour animated series for each major story arc.
I still think this movie is slightly better than X-men Origins Wolverine
It has far better storytelling and production value than origins.
Origins was terrible but this one is unforgivable sin.After Wolverine passed away it was done.
Somehow Multiverse of Madness did a "Dark Phoenix" type story way better than both The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix films combined
Uh, no it didn't. The whole point of the Dark Phoenix Saga is about SHOWING Jean's descent into madness. Wanda's decent happened off-screen. I mean no disrespect, but you ever read the saga?
@@agentofchaos7456 of course i did
and when i mean by MoM doing it better, it didn't hold back and keep it grounded, something that both The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix kept doing.
First Class and Days of Future Past have to be one of my favorite movies of the X-Men verse. They're so good.
Great video.
If it was really really done right, i would look forward to a new X-MEN movie. But i don't really think i will ever see that.
The biggest issue I had with Dark Phoenix was the casting of Sophie Turner as Jean Grey. The woman has no range and is too reserved to play Jean Grey. The director literally had to confiscate her Juul in order to get some emotion out of her.
What’s funny is it was GOW fans who lobbied for her to be Jean Grey for her acting as Sansa. They projected her development as Sansa as somehow development for Jean herself, and ended up ruining her again.
Stunt casting..she was the current, although briefly, "IT" girl hot off Game of Thrones......horrible casting.
@@markherring3513 “They were good in Game of Thrones so they MUST be good at everything.”
Her American accent was so horrible I had second hand embarrassment watching her.
Disappointed for me in 2019 for me waiting through the credits for an after cred scene i did not leave the theatre and the staff came in and i said i am not leaving till you put screen back on i am waiting for an after cred scene and it went in full on arguments i had to eventually leave because the next film was starting in that scene which was not dark Phoenix till this day as i own dark Phoenix on blu ray i wait till the whole film is finished and reinact that argument talking to my self
What are the music tracks that you used for this video?
Yes! What happened, indeed?!?! First Class is my favorite X-Men movie. Days of Future Past is a work of art. How did Bryan Singer dive bomb 💣 with not one (Apocalypse) but two sequels (Dark Phoenix). Dark Phoenix started out excellent with the space shuttle scene but from there, it quickly all fell apart.
Actually dark Phoenix was abysmal because Bryan Singer turned out to be a horrible person and as a result was removed from the directing team for dark Phoenix. If singer directed this film it likely wouldn't have been as bad.
Despite its many flaws, I still love this film. The actors who played the younger generation had chemistry together, and this was probably the healthiest depiction of Scott and Jean's relationship on-screen that we've gotten. I was sad they didn't have space for Jubilee, since most of her part was cut from Apocalypse, but I loved the scene with Dazzler at the party on the grounds. It was a nice touch since Dazzler helped the X-Men out right around the beginning of the Dark Phoenix Saga. I just hope when Disney does decide to take up the live-action X-Men again, it looks to some of the actors from the more recent films - this, New Mutants, Logan (for Laura), and even from The Gifted.
I'm jealous...Wanted to love it but spent my money and fell asleep halfway. Worst movie ive ever seen in a theatre.
Literally forgot about this movie lolz 🤣
X-men movie without wolverine, the most entertaining character by far lolz. like a restaurant that doesn't serve food or drinks, they expected everyone to just to sit there and enjoy the ambiance or something. Kinda reminds me of Superman returns, another super expensive forgetting movie where Superman doesn't punch anything
This is my fav X-Men movie
People forget that in order to get to a Dark Phoenix saga, you have to do a proper Phoenix saga 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
If they gonna bring Phoenix Force into MCU, hopefully they do it right!
For real I hope they don't mess it up again because we all know dark phoenix saga is one of the important saga in marvel
If you are a comic book fan do yourself a favor and read something that isn't Marvel/DC and isn't superheroes. You will find yourself much happier
In short: being the franchise old af, they had to "teenagerise" it and "harrypotterise" it. Plus... Sansa "no expression" Stark is deffo the worst choice for a complex character like the Dark Phoenix.
15:49 to 15:54
why is
CYCLOPS wearing
GEORDI'S VISOR
with
KITT'S RED SCANNER LIGHT
on it ?
I hated that X-Women line because that whole argument didn't need to be there in the overarching story, and also it made no sense because the male team members rescued the astronauts
She was referring to the team being saved.
@@agentofchaos7456 Which is totally nonsense (did she forgot Quicksilver saved all them at least 2 times? Did she forgot SHE almost killed the mutant race while trying to kill Trask?)
@@charlespuruncajas9663 Yea Mystique stood on the sidelines with a dumb OMG look on her face while her "brother" was shot by a stray bullet in First Class, while her brother was underneath some sizeable rubble at the White House in Days of Future Past, while her brother was barely surviving a mental battle on the Astral plane with the First Mutant. The idea might be true in the comics, that the best X-Men are the female characters but that's certainly not true in the movies. Especially these prequels.
I loved dark Phoenix 2019 because it was my first theatre experience in years. Not only that, but first Dolby Cinema experience (rumbling couch-like chairs, etc).
Why?
they made the impossible with this one... they made it worst than The Last Stand. Dark Phoenix is a hell of a mess
In what respects? Because storytelling-wise The Last Stand was far more unfocused. Not to mention its Phoenix story was an objectively bad take on mental illness. Seriously, those types of portrayals have been proven by mental health experts to be utter BS and stigmatizes the mentally ill.
Dark Phoenix was more accurate and thoughtful take on mental illness. So I am genuinely curious about what you mean about it being worse than The Last Stand.
Jean Grey's major power was the ability tp be played by an actress who displays almost zero range. being very, very, very overly fair, an actress who is just not as good as the rest of the cast.
It was like watching a crossover between X-men and GOT..
I had heard that the original plan was two films which would have perfect. I seem to remember that the speculation and negotiations about the Disney takeover continued for a considerable period of time, which would have led to uncertainty, which doesn't help at all. Then the forced reshoots due to clashes with the Aliens in Captain Marvel plus the need to cut back on the amount of time spent in space in the third act, screwed things up even more. I that Sophie Turner does come in for unnecessary criticism, I'm glad that you have a similar opinion to mine, Sophie did a considerable amount of research into MPD and similar mental illnesses in order to portray what Jean was going through. So a film that was partially detailed because of the Disney takeover, but the one that got really screwed was New Mutants!
Research doesn't always equate to good performance. She wasn't right for this role.
@@raebeingreal2170 Eh she did her best in playing Jean, the problem was the fact that she was given very poor material to work with. The reason why her performance don't work was because of the script. Sophie is a good actress as we all know what she did in Game Of Thrones and in her new show, The Staircase, i really love her performance in that show, she can be a better Jean if the script was better. It's always comes down to the script and the directing. Replace her with someone else, result would've been the same cuz nothing could save the movie from a terrible script.
I grew up reading blue / gold team X Men, and felt Dark Phoenix compared to all other Xmen movies best captured the emotions and abilities of these characters. In fact, Dark Phoenix is probably one of my favourite Marvel adaptations-way more enjoyable than end game etc.
This film had a much darker tone and feel that I absolutely loved.
I loved the movie, main reason of reshoots was Captain Marvel :) Absolutely love the OST
I remember going to the movies here in Brazil to see The Dark Phoenix on a Saturday....
Believe it or not, there was ONLY ME in the whole theater....
I actually enjoyed this film, true it's not as good as Days of Future Past but I thought it's better than Last Stand and Apocalypse.
Definitely a better mental health story than Last Stand, that is for sure.
Sharknado was better than Last Stand and Apocalypse
The franchise had already given the role of the heart of the X-men to Mystique. So, Jean was not the center she should’ve been. Having caused her mom’s death was also not helpful in my opinion. And the Hellfire Club corrupting Jean would’ve made more sense than a little known alien race.
Jean didn't become the heart of the X-Men after she become Phoenix.
@@agentofchaos7456 no, she did not. In fact, she became the individual who killed the heart/Mystique. In the actual Phoenix Saga, part of the appeal and drive of the story is Jean’s place and history with the team.
@@armoghetto I mean, in the comics Jean was not the heart of the X-Men until after she became Phoenix. Before that she was just a token girl character.
@@agentofchaos7456 from the first issue of X-men, Jean was the sole female member of the original line up. That lasted for years. Jean was considered the first heart of the team. After her first death, the writers brought in Kitty Pride to replace her as the new heart of the team.
The biggest weakness was the actress herself. She did well in The Game of Thrones but for Jean Gray, a lot of emotion was missing, she wasn't embodying the character well and I never felt like she connected with the character so there was a huge disconnect between her character and her performance which the audience picked up.
I think the reason the last 3 X men movies failed was because a lot of fans where never really on board with a reboot to begin with when Xmen First class came out but fans gave em a chance after that but the quality in the films got worse and worse plus we didn't really have a chance to invest in the younger version of already established characters from earlier movies
I love X-Men was so disappointed 😞 at this movie. I believe Bumble Bee came out that year and was way better.
You cant do the Dark phoenix saga in just one film.
They didn't. This movie is an adaptation of Jean/Phoenix origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga. The sequel was suppose to adapt the rest of the saga.
Oh look….. the guy who answers the same to everybody
@@alejandromolinac If you're referring to me. I'm still right.
For me the franchise started going down when Jennifer Lawrence’s version of Mystique started to become the main character. Mystique should’ve went full villain and stayed there in Days of Future Past. It would’ve been more interesting leading into Apocalypse of her magneto were full villains and working together away from Charles. Also, bad casting I think for some of the major characters like Storm. Apocalypse had weak introductions for very central characters to move forward the way the story was being told.
How dare they judge Prof X! He did his best.
What I like about the X-Men movies is the fact that they never tried to follow the MCU's formula or its tropes, especially after it became a trend
They never relied on nostalgia, the tone always kept consistent, and they always focused on the present
And Dark Phoenix kept that way
They kept their sense of individuality. Even the score was different in each movie
They never relied on nostalgia?
Yeah, that's why Wolverine was in every single film 🤣
@@natsohigh5552 👍👍👍
@@natsohigh5552 he’s just the fan favorite
I know it’s unpopular to like this film but I do.
Crazy thing about this movie I will be relasing a fan edit of this movie that has taken me alittle over a year relase date December 29th.
Oh, c'mon... It's not that bad! I, for one, loved every aspect of it; including the script. 😊
You can relate to Jean's struggle with mental illness?
@@agentofchaos7456 No, but we two can levitate like champs. Nothing a bunch of haters can hurt us while we levitate in our own beautiful world. *Hans Zimmer music playing in the background especially the disintegrating the aliens part*
Simon Kinberg might not be a good writer
But you can bet he is a great producer
It was because of him that we got FIRST CLASS, DEADPOOL and LOGAN
And not to mention THE MARTIAN too
#SecondChance4Kinberg
Days of Future Past is a pretty good adapted screenplay. I give him credit for writing the best of the X-Men prequel films.
Then he should stick to producing and leave the directing (and frankly the writing) to the pros.
He ain't a bad writer either, he wrote the script for Days of Future Past which was an amazing movie
@@ES-gg8pd Given his current track record. Maybe just stick to television and not big budget movies.
@@Dohsoda Considering that's pretty much the only good movie he's written, I wouldn't be too quick to credit the success of that on him. Not to mention the Writer's Guild credits in the US is so messed up...remember the WG credits fiasco for the first X-Men?
Vaughn and Goldman wrote the initial script (and then left); Singer must've breathed down Kinberg's neck the entire time (superhero scripts are often written and rewritten on shoot day); Ottman is a very hands-on editor.
Did any of these people even read the story. Scott Summers and Jean Grey was a doomed romance story, environmental plot twists, first time death of a main character in comics. You can’t do that in even in 2hr films. They destroyed the saga with egos and fear of financial losses.
Uh, what are you talking about? The movie was based on the origin of the Phoenix, not the whole saga.
Dobnew mutants next. Still haven't seen it cuz it's not on a platform u would expect. I was real mad that these movies didnt stick the landing
Unpopular opinion:
I found Simon Kingerg's direction pretty solid
He was able to give the movie an identity of its own, rather than trying to replicate Bryan Singer's direction
Unlike Brett Ratner tried to do in THE LAST STAND
#SecondChance4Kinberg
wut
I had no clue who direct THE LAST STAND when I first watched it, and I really liked it. It's definitely a tonal shift from the Bryan Singer stuff but I really enjoyed the movie. But that's also me not really digging the Phoenix aspect - I loved the cure story line and the expanded brotherhood, plus Angel. I thought that movie handled the Phoenix content better than this dedicated movie towards it. Which is bland, forgettable, and boring. And it has some AMAZING actors in it. Obviously I wished it was good and successful. Sadly not the case though
Piss off, shill
The elements in this movie that work actually work well. I agree on his direction, solid (not great) some of the acting is also solid (not great) the script is ok.
I think the issue (at least for me) is that The 3 movies that went before it were either good or great.
Apocalypse was better than it should have been... the idea was sound, some of the performances were really good and I still love the mental fight with Xavier & apocalypse, I like the way it looks and plays out... there was a script (not a great script, but it definitely had one). It was saved by the visuals and the talent behind it... they clearly cared... unlike in DP where it is really obvious that some of them didn't give a S....
Yeah but the fun thing on that franchise was how each movie looked like part of the series... so skipping the intro with the iconic Cerebro‘s door, the music by John Ottman... kinda felt meh, also ignoring the opened plots from the previous movie was a big mistake (no mention to Wolverine, Moira, Essex... felt bad too)
@@charlespuruncajas9663 Kinberg didn't want to imitate Bryan Singer's vision
Those intros were staples of Singer's X-Men, so when Brett Ratner tried to imitate Singer, it didn't hit the mark
Kinberg wanted to do his own thing
I expected more into how Disney sabotaged this movie from behind the scenes. You touched on this in the end, but it was a much bigger role then your giving it credit for, at least in my opinion. The skrulls were replaced because Captain Marvel had their lame version, and disney didnt want to confuse normies.
Being honest, Fox had the chance to do a second generation of the Hellfire Club and return other character from First Class, but they wanted to go to space a lot sooner rather than doing Hellfire Club first and then going for the space stuff in a sequel.
This was a trainwreck already before some changes, and the release date changing didn't help either by Fox or Mickey.
Disney had every right to do everything they did behind the scenes. They needed to wrap up Fox's X-Men franchise so Fiege could integrate the characters into the wildly successful MCU. Fox squandered the Goodwill from X-Men first Class & X-Men Days of Future Past with that abysmal X-Men apocalypse. By the time Disney got there they had moved the movie 3 times and the budget had ballooned to 200 million. Also what they saw wasn't reflective of what the MCU was doing. Fans were cheering the MCU for embracing its comic book Origins and Fox is doing the exact opposite. The movie was an unwanted grounded take on the dark Phoenix Saga, the movie had already been Rewritten numerous times and anyone looking at it could see what they have put together was not very good. The only thing different from the last Phoenix Saga what that they added the trip to space and they removed the Cure storyline LOL. The movie should have been two parts, thy should have used the shi'ar empire and the Hellfire Club, and instead of showing the Phoenix destroying the planet we should have seen it ourselves first hand. Also a big part of the Phoenix Saga is Jean's relationship with Scott Summers. Once again we have another X-men movie where the actors playing the characters did not have any chemistry. If you're going to spend 300 million on a movie (200 million for production and 90 million for advertising) you should at least go all out so if it does flop you could say at least we went all out. Nobody wanted a grounded Phoenix Saga. It's almost as if Simon kinberg and Fox were ashamed of the source material. If Disney cut the legs out from under them when they took over good for Disney. They made the right call because before they took over this movie was DOA. There was no reason to continue pumping money into a movie that wasn't going to be successful. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
What I learned from this video is that I need to see Dr. Strangelove again.
The movie would have been great had it not been for the Captain Marvel movie. Because the Dark Phoenix has changed and deleted scenes from it because of its similarity to the movie Captain Marvel, and the scenes were great when the Phoenix was shown fighting aliens in space and destroying the UN buildin and a lot of scenes.
Although Dark Phoenix is ahead of Captain Marvel, Disney wants to show its films better
This is not a bad film really it’s not. That being said the DP story is too epic to tell in a film, it would take 12 films to do it justice it’s too grand too epic it would cost the entire budget of all the x movies. I like the story in the film I thought the actors including katniss everden lol,did a great job it’s a fitting conclusion to this often lambasted series they did their best , action scenes are great especially the final battle the opening scene on the shuttle was right out of the comics , I didn’t understand the inclusion of the D’bari as they are the first victims of Jean grey when she goes phoenix ( she eats their sun) let’s hope the MCU will not even try to do this. I would prefer the mutant massacre or holocaust maybe a real sentinel story arc, Cheers.
Not a popular opinion at all but I highly enjoy Dark Phoenix a lot. After the dumpster fire that was Apocalypses it was a breath of fresh air. I tend to like my comic movies waaay more focused on story telling than any sort of action.
My opinion is the exact opposite
@@KinkESizemore I don't think Apocalypse had better storytelling. It didn't eve have a second act.
can you do wtf happened to tmnt (2014)?
They should have made it to 2 parts. With the amount of reshoots thats close making a 2nd part.
I’ve rewatched the movie yesterday, and I think it’s ageing very well. It’s on the nerdy and introspective side of the comics narrative, still with stunning visuals, cinematography and music score. It could have been more daring and get into deeper emotional territory. Considering all the personal and intimate relationships the movie is about, the eccessive restraint applied to love, friendship, fear for life changing events or death feels out of place. I can still enjoy the movie as a ‘60s throwback adventure genre.
The Mouse happened, the Mouse!
It seems like it just had the problem of having half of the movie cut out and left on a harddrive/cutting room floor and then disney came in and forced them to reshoot the ending.
After Multiverse of Madness
I'm not looking forward to see what Disney will do with the X-Men
Especially after what they did to Hulk and Spiderman
Everyone praises Disney but I'm starting to see the cracks and they're ain't perfect.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Universal still owns Hulk and Sony not letting Spiderman go so I rather see different Marvel stories than to have a extended universe look what happened to DC and it's all owned by 1 studio so why can't Marvel do that.
Bryan Singer was gonna make Dark Phoenix back in 2006 but left to do Superman Return, a decision he later said he regrettedd after seeing how both movies turned out
Thanks for the explanation, why it turned out so disappointing.
For better or for worse, I'll always prefer the X-Men movies over the MCU
Because even the bad ones have something else to offer, something better than the MCU
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
X-Men Quicksilver is way cooler than MCU Avenger version SERIOUSLY look at Future Past scene and Age of Ultron scene by scene.
@@Thespeedrap don't forget his scene in x-men apocalypse
I like Dark Phoenix and can appreciate the attempt with Apocalypse. They are two of the lesser films in the series for sure, but they both have some great individual scenes that are more memorable and emotional than the majority of MCU entries.
they teased the prospect of Minister Sinister at the post credit of Apocalypse which I think would have been a far more interesting entry.
Step one - Create an X-men trilogy that has nothing to do with Phoenix, but does include Jean Grey. Then, step 2 - have a trilogy with an X-men team that takes place in space (a great roster would be the OG 5). In, the first one introduce the Shiar, Starjammers, and other important X-men celestial threats (maybe Brood). In the second one really plunge into the M’kraan crystal, it’s reality warping abilities, and the pure goodness of the Phoenix force (you could introduce Vulcan and his own team of mutants as the antagonists). Then, in the final one play out the Dark Phoenix saga. Start in Space, show it as a universal threat, then end on Earth including the other X-men, heroes of the MCU and Shiar under Lilandra.
Y’all can come for me, but I actually liked this movie…
how dare you disagree with everyone else.... F YOU
:D
People like mediocre movies all the time. It's okay that you enjoyed it.
My opinion isn’t a popular one, but I kinda enjoyed Dark Phoenix. For me, it’s basically an easily digestible watchable time passer… but this story does deserve better. The third act was actually pretty good.
I agree! Just watched it again for the second time. It’s decent and and has good acting in my opinion.
The long and short of it is that, much like The Last Stand before it, the studio screwed the pooch from day one. There was a plan in place, and the studio kept throwing wrenches into production and continually tying the crews' hands. Unfortunately, given the sale of the studio to Disney, I don't think it was going to have a chance of being completed as originally intended (that being a two-part, cosmic epic), but the continuous studio changes didn't help matters.
However, taken on its own merits, I do enjoy the movie: it's the closest we'll get to a solo Jean Grey vehicle, and it also gave us the best live-action Cyclops (though that isn't really saying much).
I wish I could say the future was bright for the merry mutants in the MCU, but the recent decrease in quality in MCU projects of late doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. The WGA/SAG strike also likely means that we won't see another X-film until at least 2030, but I'd love to be wrong on that part.