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DOGFIGHT 101: The USAF's 1960s Air Combat Manual
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2023
- Between 1958 and 1960, Major John Boyd produced the Aerial Attack Study, 150 pages of analysis of, and advice about, how to win in air-to-air combat. His was the first attempt to document the various parameters that a pilot had to manage in order to win a dogfight. He also provided an algorithm of moves and counter-moves that a pilot could employ to win a dogfight within those parameters.
Although viewed today, much of what he wrote seems somewhat obvious, at the time the Aerial Attack Study was a revelation for a USAF overwhelmingly concerned with nuclear weapons delivery. The art of dogfighting had been neglected - guided missiles rendered it obsolete. Boyd's material was very well received.
In reading his experience as an instructor for the F-100 Super Sabre and his technical analysis of its weapons systems, we also gain significant insight into the tools and tactics that US aviators would take with them into the Vietnam War. As an enthusiast, not a fighter pilot, I find this historical context immensely valuable as I try to understand the various engagements that took place in South East Asia from a human and a technical standpoint.
I hope this video is useful to you... I recognise that it is a little dry, but hopefully also enjoyable. Feedback on the format would also be useful to me as it took some time to create the 'animated' versions of Boyd's static diagrams.
Final thing to say is that I apologise for my voiceover. I'm suffering with bad hay fever at the moment and no amount of post production could disguise it. Hopefully not too noticeable!
Notes:
My previous video on the Aerial Attack Study, covering the AIM-9B in greater detail and also Boyd's advice on how to attack a bomber: • AERIAL ATTACK STUDY: F...
John Boyd's Aerial Attack Study, remastered and in full: www.ausairpowe...
SU-27 'Cobra' footage: • Sukhoi Su-27 "Cobra" M...
Excellent 'how to' video for the vertical rolling scissors: • BFM Lesson #7 Rolling ...
Diagram I adapted for the vertical rolling scissors: www.thisdayina...
Trailer for the DCS Super Sabre module (I'm in no way affiliated with this, I just used a couple of clips from the video!):
• DCS: VSN SUPER SABRE -...
The difference Boyd's writings did was that it took existing knowledge, brought it together into a single place and properly codified it into something that was more teachable than the mishmash of more individual and often highly splintered and incomplete knowledge spread out among a horde of pilots.
The understanding itself wasn't revolutionary at all, but being able to present it properly in a way that it could be provided with relative ease to all new pilots, THAT very much was revolutionary.
Thanks for the comment and I totally agree with your assessment. It's why I believe that its worth understanding his writings as he produced the best 'manual' available to US aviators in the 1960s. I'm starting to get into some of the personalities that shaped the informal 'ready room' conversations that were the other side of training pilots in dogfighting... there are some wild stories out there!
Anyhow, thanks again for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it!
John Boyd was from my home town of Erie, PA. As a little kid, I remember very vividly when he visited, flying a natural metal T-33. He would often perform vertical aileron rolls, to the delight of the locals.
Thought you were Muncie and played hoops with Larry Bird?
Do not think there were any chick's flying for John Boyd?
I just wanted to thank you for the films you produce. They are so informative and interesting.
Thanks for this message - it made me very happy! I'm really glad you are enjoying the videos and the topics - I have to say that I worry with each video whether I've gone too niche. This one was a labour of love, but I also learned a lot :).
@@notapound I think the type of viewers who watch your channel and other similar channels (Greg's airplanes and automobiles is the first to come to mind) love dense theory and tactics. I personally felt like I just graduated from Top gun after watching this film lol.
Your labor and love shines through everything you publish. Thank you for your hard work.
If you want to see some of these tactics put into practice I recommend the F8 Crusader Dogfights episode. The second section shows the perfect execution of Boyd's principles in a 1 F8 v 4 MiG 17 engagement.
Several years after the Vietnam War, F-14, F-15 F-16 and F-18 was born from the lessons of Vietnam War.
The F-14 saw active service in Vietnam in the closing days of the war, it did not come several years after.
@@mineccraftn00bI had to look it up. It was there providing cap during the last days. TIL
Not many people talk about Boyd's papers in detail. They mostly talk about his OODA loop for business. He was obviously a fighter pilot's fighter pilot. In other words, an expert among his peers. Thanks! It was quite insightful and must have been tough to put together on your part. He was also the father of the F-16. Quite a guy!
Much maligned of late. As a life long mil air hobbiest. was enamoured with a series of books on his cabal, and eager to learn more, I befriended The late Myers Sprey, with Riccioni, and Chuck, Stevenson, etc... Their adventures are the stuff of true legend.
6:51 Oh my, an IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 screenshot! Cool!
Man, I love your videos. o7
Your videos are so very information dense that I usually am overwhelmed and lose track of what you're explaining. And yet I keep coming back to your videos because seldom do flashy, entertaining videos really impart the seriousness of warfighting. I've realized that the people assessing actions and planning for upcoming combat engagements were not simply bystanders shown in most military movies. They were working hard for the guys in the planes to be successful.
As a 10 year old boy in 1962 I had a front row seat on the weekends of Luke AFB F-100's and ready rooms, flight line, gunnery range, even was the only kid ever being able to go into secret weapon's.Thanks to my Dad being WACO 1 Thank's Dad, RIP.
Your content is very interesting, i was instantly hooked, i nearly watched all your videos one after another, great narrating, and very interesting overall topic. I looking forward for more interesting content.
Informative stuff! I'm watching this since I'm currently graduating into missile jets in War Thunder. (And trying to fly them effectively / not get killed all the time)
The OODA loop is useful in any given situation, land sea or air, military or civilian life.
Really appreciate the use of the diagrams to illustrate the manouvers. Though was the vertical scissors upside down? Finally as an aside I always thought Lufbery got lucky with his name being used for the defensive circle, it really should be called an F.E. 2b circle 😁.
Though the increased capabilities of the AIM-9 and AIM-7 modified Basic Fighter Maneuver (BFM) tactics, Boyd’s systemic approach to dog fighting is still timeless.
Institutionalizing jet fighter pilot training is a massive advantage Boyd gave the NATO powers during the cold war.
Great detail! Loved your commentary! Great content!❤️❤️
Fascinating, thank you.
Outstanding content, subscribed
Thank you! So glad you enjoyed it. I was worried about this one as it had the potential to come across as a little dry!
Outstanding content. Keep it up!
I have his published books and a Biography along with "Fighter tactics and Maneuvering" from the Naval institute. It has very good diagrams based on his work and the experiences in Nam.
Lazerpig response video when?
VIFFing - something that is outside turn or velocity. Admittedly only really applies to Harriers which were created after the doc this vid was about, but it's the exception that proves the rule 😂😂
Very true! I remember reading all about that as a kid and thinking that the Harrier was invincible in a dogfight!
The phantom was a Great Fighter, the problem was with the LBJ administration of Beyond Visual Range ONLY Doctrine , this put phantom pilots at close range to manuver the phantoms when they wasn’t equipped or trained to do so . However when you did have pilots who could maneuver the phantom they would become ACEs. Captain Frank Ault did a report on this called the Ault report, he found the issues to be with missile failures and close in pilot training. Dan Pedersen armed with this report stated to retrain phantom pilots at a school he started called Fighter Weapons school. These pilots would increase the ratio from 2:1 to nearly 24:1 with the phantoms by the end of Vietnam. Why this newer phantom record during Vietnam is never Discussed remains a mystery..
I was unable to follow because I didn't understand who the attacker and the defender are.
I don't even need to read Boyd's paper to know that he NEVER used the phrase "...he or she...".
'Genital correctness' , before becoming fashionable?
I don’t know whether my virtual flying has finally reached a level that allows it or it’s the best explained version I’ve come across (probably a bit of both) but this theory has fallen in to place (mostly) for the first time in a couple of years of sim flying. Thanks, this was great.
Now I need to see if my new found wisdom can be applied during a dogfight!
@notapound >>> Another great video...👍
Good video Mr. Pound.
I love this content.
Just wanted to say mate, only just discovered the channel and watched all the videos you have posted and really enjoyed them, they are really intresting , well delivered and I like the level you pitch them at , they are really good at explaining the minitaue of mil avaiation that actually makes a difference in air warfare and isnt covered in the likes of Topgun lol cant wait to see what your next subject . Are you on twitter or other socials?
Fancy restatement of Boelke's WWI commandments of air to air combat. Great stuff. A refinement, not a breakthrough.
He or she..
Describing an aerial battle in the 1960's.
You are so kind Mr.Pound.
😂
Check out the book, Flying Camelot: The F-15, the F-16, and the Weaponization of Fighter Pilot Nostalgia for a more balanced view of Boyd and the rest of the fighter mafia/reformer's competence.
Boyd, he once said, like bird with a NY accent, he once said when introducing himself. A born teacher. His critical developments within the fighter mafia, gave us the classic fighters which continue to fly alongside the newer stealth aircraft. The F-16, F15, although the F-16 was his real baby. A light fighter that did not engage in ground pounding to any degree whatsoever in his original specifications. He tried to ensure it could not carry a nuclear payload. As soon as he dies the USAF/Pentagon redeveloped the F-16 to include the wiring to enable nuclear weapon delivery. Thereby degrading the craft from his original intent.
There is no way this is true. Altho Boyd was Instrumental in getting the F-16 project started, once it was being designed he was overruled several times in his designs for the F-16.There are many sources which show Boyd arguing against adding in certain features which ended up in every model of the F-16. If the military wanted Nuke weapon delivery capabilities in the F-16 Boyd was not capable of stoping them.
@@rgpmtori read his book.
@@StevenHoman His book isn't a great source. It was written after his death by friends and colleagues. Back when it was written it was the only source the public really had about internal military stuff. However the military has started to declasify documents which contradict claims made in it. Not by John (he was dead) but his friends who lied about their importance and influence.
@@rgpmtori correct. Boyd is the only one of the group I'm willing to give the possibility of actually having some useful things to say. The rest of them (Sprey in particular) have been caught lying time and time again, and the actual ideas and things they argued for terrible.
It is dry…
But it’s good shit!
Thanks mate!
Well done!
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it - that one is a bit dry. One for the purists!
All of these maneuvers could work in a fight, except that a LOT of them leave the defender completely exposed to gunfire should the attacker decide to stay aggressive and go for the kill.
16:01 thanks for this bit as your right because it is the basics that you can understand with enough time and effort. Vut it's important to remeber this isn't the end all-be all as masters of combat avation are so far beyond this book it's not funny... But if you want to know the basics it's all there and that's great.
A lot of this seems to count on having aircraft of similar abilities. In far better to shoot down your opponent before you get into a turning fight. I think Boyd was cought up in the romance of "chivalric" dog fighting.
Wow Great!!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
When you already know this cause you play War Thunder 8hrs a day
6:09 you can say that about any manuver though... Like I was talking with a guy who thought me doing inmumans was unthinkable... Even if I regain my energy state each time I do one and it works better for the turain and my style.... Corbas(To which they are many kinds) have been found to be very useful in recent yearss as much as flaps, airbrakes.... Which how praytell can you in a high energy state not shot out infront of someone doing a correctly done cobra to which you never have to do all the way or for very long? Please explain your wizardy.
Dicta- Boelcke; always turn into the attack.
Can anyone recommend some books on John Boyd???
It's in GIY.
@@kiereluurs1243 Being patronising doesn't help.
Call people by their first names, not their last names.
Fighter mafia fool...
In fairness to Boyd (or to the maker of this video), Boyd actually did make useful contributions here, and they are genuinely helpful to understanding 1960s-era combat with IR-guided missiles and cannon. As the maker of the video points out, modern guided missiles have much greater capabilities than the AIM-9B did, and this greatly changes the game. So does the availability of modern radars that are more rugged and more powerful, and of fire-and-forget radar-guided missiles such as the AIM-120. Neither of those existed when Boyd wrote his books, or in the Vietnam era when the US gathered most of its Cold War air-to-air combat experience.
The content we see here is not foolish; it is a fairly accurate reflection of the state of military affairs *in 1960,* and with the weapons that were widely available in frontline service for the rest of that decade. What is foolish is the attempts of military 'reformers' to misapply this experience to technology decades more advanced than anything seen here, or to draw the wrong lessons from it.
Here for warthunder xD
I'm pretty sure this is wrong as going vertical is almost always a bad strategy. In 1996 Greece and turkey had a series of mock dogfights. The f16 has the best climb rate of any aircraft ever made and the mirage is only better at instantaneous turn. The mirage always won and they had a final dogfight where it killed the f16 for real.
Climbing is generally a bad idea because you lose speed and momentum which are life. But its also a way to "store" energy.
@@RickoSidhe you are correct it was a vast over generalization. there are plenty of times you would want to climb especially since sometimes you want to come out of it behind someone
Are you sure about that? The Eagle can accelerate straight up.
The pilot, 'their' aircraft?
English please.
Their, their, their, ...
Annoying.
Ah yes COL. Boyd. He and Pierre Sprey (yes him) were among the three “bureaucratic guerrillas” in the Pentagon who designed the F-16 at the time when the F-15 was in he works.
Or so they claimed later. Sprey thought that planes shouldn't even have radars, and they were proven wrong in that both the F-16 and F-15 both ended up as multirole aircraft that had fancy tech
Long story short, Colonel Boyd had a real, documented role in the evolution of Air Force fighter doctrine as the Air Force worked to update this doctrine to incorporate guided missiles and the realities of the Jet Age. We can trace Boyd's contributions by published works and the works of others who credited him with contributions.
Pierre Sprey was a poster boy for Walter Mitty Syndrome. If he were claiming credit for medals instead of for designing fighter jets, he'd have been opening himself up to prosecution under the Stolen Valor Act. There is no documented evidence that Sprey played a significant role in the design of the F-16, the A-10, or any other plane ever flown by the USAF.
However, Sprey outlived most of the people who actually worked on these planes. He was very willing to lie in print and on TV (especially platforms like Russia Today). And he had a small clique of close friends who were similarly willing to lie in print on his behalf. As such, he was able to propagate the belief that he was involved to a wide audience by way of the Internet.
I really doubt Boyd said "he or she". This was the 50s. Stop worrying about offending, would you please.
Who says that "Not A Pound" is worried about anything? I don't know about you, but I sometimes say "he or she," or the inclusive "they" favored by Shakespeare, for reasons that have nothing to do with fear. I am not particularly afraid of outraged regiments of women demanding that I include more "shes" in my speech. But neither am I afraid that it will somehow weaken or emasculate my speech and thought if I recognize that, while the Vietnamese and American air forces of the 1960s didn't think girls could fly fighter jets, they were probably wrong about that.
An F-100's ability to set up a Sidewinder shot against a maneuvering targets has very little to do with the pilot's personal plumbing. Colonel Boyd may or may not have fully grasped this reality; I see no reason to assume he failed to understand it. But in any case, I think we today know it quite well.
There are really only two things fighter pilots need to remember 1. All the info in the Bolcke dicta. 2. Remember there is a reason they are called missles and not hittles.