Margin Call First Meeting BREAKDOWN (Hidden Details)
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2023
- In our fifth video on Margin Call, we take a look at the First Meeting scene. We also look at how some changes from Margin Call’s script impacted the scene.
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Margin Call’s script as text: imsdb.com/scripts/Margin-Call...
Margin Call’s script as a pdf: www.scriptslug.com/script/mar...
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Margin Call Senior Partners Emergency Meeting
Margin Call First Meeting
Margin Call Peter discovers the firm's projected losses on MBS products
"It's just money. It's made up" - Margin Call
Margin Call - Fire Sale of Mortgage Bonds (Wall Street Investment Bank Trading)
Fire Sale - Margin Call
Eric Dale is fired - Margin Call
Margin Call - Searching for Eric Dale and Sam meets with Will
Margin Call - It didn't seem like much of a choice
Margin Call - Will Emerson talks about the impending financial turmoil
Margin Call - Fire Sale Pep Talk
Margin Call Best Quote by Will Emerson
Margin Call Seth Jared fired
Margin Call Ending
Margin Call Stanley Tucci Paul Bettany
Margin Call Sarah Robertson fired
Margin Call Will Emerson Jared Cohen parking garage
Margin Call Sarah Robertson Jared Cohen
Margin Call Zachary Quinto as Peter Sullivan
Margin Call Jeremy Irons as John Tuld
Margin Call Paul Bettany as Will Emerson
Margin Call Simon Baker as Jared Cohen
Margin Call Penn Badgley as Seth Bregman
Margin Call Demi Moore as Sarah Robertson
Margin Call Stanley Tucci as Eric Dale
Margin Call Aasif Mandvi as Ramesh Shah
Margin Call deleted scene
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I'm an Air Force aircraft mechanic. I've found myself moved into a job where I sit multiple times a week with mid level LT Cols and Cols that brief a General or two. This scene sits with me because I always feel like Seth.
Was a Marine Harrier Mechanic. The amount of WTF I wanted to scream in meetings was absurd. Can relate.
I work in the IT sector and i had a moment exactly like this when shit truly hit the fan 1 day and i discovered the cause, sitting across the table from a CEO who is a multi millionaire 100x over when you are a 21 year old Network Engineer is moderately nerve wrecking lol.
Hilarious post!! Thanks for your service
@@taylornoxlol sure
As the equivalent of your senior airman, I once went to a meeting where I pretty much knew there’d been a terrible misunderstanding for me to have been invited. What gave it away was there was a Major operating the projector, and the equivalent of a Master Sgt (a WO1) making the tea/coffee. Highest rank sitting around the table was a Major General. The lowest rank, apart from me, was a Lt. Col, and even he didn’t say a word as he was too junior to be asked anything. I just sat, introduced myself when asked at the start, and then beamed my way through the entire meeting, asking the WO1 for more coffee and biscuits every five minutes, just for the novelty and look on his face. I did practically run out of the room at the end though, before the WO could get his revenge.
I do think Jared’s impressed by his background actually. I always thought his reaction is the realization that he’s actually talking to the smartest guy in the room and the smartest guy in the room is telling him he’s completely fucked. That’s not a good feeling no matter how successful you are.
he is a senior person the smartest after Tuld and understands that it's better to have team coworkers who are happen to be more intelligent than you if they are on your side. His got perfect subotdinate qualities as he waits his superior decisison in direction before he declares alternative solutions to the problem.
Except it’s heavily implied through out the movie that the executive level did see it happening, they just decided to ignore it. And Peter figuring it out was the siren for them to take action because if a junior analyst can figure it out the rest of the Quant guys in finance will eventually figure it out too but by then it would be too late for them to dump.
This take is spot-on, and I think the video's interpretation of this part of the scene is a bit off the mark. Robertson's questioning of Peter Sullivan's background is a slightly desperate attempt to minimise what he's telling them, since the massive problem he's unearthed is squarely within her (and by extension Cohen's) purview. She's hoping - perhaps assuming - this junior employee hasn't got the chops to make the assertion he's making, but her appeal to credentialism blows up in her face instantly when Sullivan reveals himself to quite literally be a rocket scientist. Jared Cohen's statement of that fact is in part a capitulation (recognising that they are completely fucked) but also an early shot fired against Robertson - he's establishing himself on the side of the new reality and leaving Sarah Robertson on her own defending the thing they both fucked up. There are so, so many masterful moments like that in this movie...
@@Momo-kw8vbIts implied that they knew what potentially could happen, but I doubt they realized the severity and the timeline. They for sure knew that what they were doing was risky, and that the chickens were going to come home to roost. I bet they figured they'd milk the idea dry, then somehow fix it when they came across this bridge
The executive management team was not aware that the mortgage derivatives market was failing far in advance.
Do you think Senior Vps in corner office are constructing financial models?
They trusted the formula that everyone else trusted. As long as the formula underlying product was believed valid, the market existed and was solvent. What the kid and Eric dale discovered is that the formula is only valid and applicable up to a point,and that the market was now dancing on the cliff.
A lot of people forget the title of the movie (including the person explaining this scene.) The MBS bonds they are buying are bought on margin. If the bonds in their possession decrease in value beyond the margin limit, they will have to pay the margin. This is called a "Margin Call". Peter's discovery is they are closer to the margin limit than they thought and they don't have the money to pay the margin.
Thank you for explanation!
I don't think this is right - a margin call is a demand by a broker that an investor deposit further cash or securities to cover possible losses
It's a call to a client
This does not happen in this movie
'Margin call' is also never quoted in the movie
The movie had this title just because it sounds cool I think
@@laxeystu8096It hasn't happened, but it's what they are afraid of. Again, remember, the movie is called "Margin Call".
The are trading bilateral derivatives (ie they aren't marked to market) directly with other counterparties... not like when you buy something in your trading account which goes through an exchange to facilitate price discovery.
The MBSes they hold appear to still have value due to illiquidity of the underlying houses - ie lenders who say "these houses are still worth what people paid for them" even though the housing market was crashing by then and they would eventually be forced to write off a lot of the loans made.
In my defense, I'd like to say no one can describe the sub-prime crisis in a half dozen sentences. But I think my description does demonstrate (perhaps over simply) what's going on in the movie.
The banks purchases of MBS are very leveraged, something Peter points out "... pushing the leverage considerably beyond ...". They don't say how leveraged, but in reality according to an investment bank CEO the investment banks were leveraged in the range of 30 to 40 to 1. This translates to buying a dollars worth of MBS while only putting up 3 1/3 to 2 1/2 cents and burrowing the rest from the seller. The seller, in this case the lending banks (by "lending bank" I mean the bank that gave the home buyer the mortgage), accept the MBS they just sold as collateral for the loan they gave to the investment banks. I don't know the exact terms of these leveraged purchases, but I'm willing to bet the lending banks protected them selves from a loss in value of the collateral/MBS. This protection would be something very much like the margin arrangements used by the stock exchanges. The investment banks also tried to protect themselves from a loss in value of the MBS by purchasing insurance called "credit default swaps" something the movie completely ignores.
I could continue on ... but I'm not.
I loved the contrast between Jared's response to Sam's "do you" compared to John response to Sam's "do you"
That different response to Sam's question is the difference in power.
@@waichui2988 No. They weren't talking about the same things. One was arguing from a matter of trust, especially their peers (since they just betrayed them all). The other was arguing purely from surviving a fundamentally corrupt system. The argument on its face, whether they had knowledge, wasn't the true argument. They were trying to force each other's morals on each other.
Great analysis.
One thing I’ll say is that if you’ve ever worked in an I-bank, the roles here map so clearly into the IB hierarchy. It’s fantastic acting that you can tell it without anything actually being laid out explicitly
Seth - Analyst
Peter - Associate
Eric Dale - VP
Will - Director/ED
Sam - MD
Jared Cohen - senior MD, perhaps CFO, Global Head of Trading or similar
The script has more info on the specific roles - highly recommend giving it a read
The cleaning woman in the lift is a nice touch. It emphasises both that they’re working well outside normal hours and because they carry on talking as if she isn’t there, that ‘little people’ can be totally disregarded.
The only acknowledgement they gave to her existence was talking in obfuscation, even more sinister imo
It also shows how their actions will ultimately devastate her, and people like her, yet they show very little regard to her. It's like they have lost the ability to see the little people
@@Mtrs_Chicwell said. When Demi Moore’s character looks at that woman it is as if she sees her, but has no empathy whatsoever for her. In my humble opinion.
I always interpreted that as Jared and Sarah having a carefully crafted conversation to create a witness in their favor, in case people started getting subpoenaed - still sinister. Creepiest scene to me is Jared shaving.
@@MrCthur It's even creepier that he had a spare suit with him. Looking the part was literally the most important thing to him.
One very important moment in the movie happens at the very beginning. Will calls Sam on his phone, Sam was driving, Will tells him that he needs to discuss something important with him. Sam asks will to just send him an Email. Will replies that "It will not be a good idea". Then immediately Sam understands the gravity of the situation and goes to office.
IF Will did send an email, it would mean they had prior knowledge of the issue and forcefully liquidated their positions, which would look very bad when the SEC sits with them.
Gotta avoid that paper trail!
To technical people, the "e" stands for "electronic". To lawyers, it stands for "evidence".
Sam was also driving from the vet where his dog was dying. He spent the entire day in the office. The next time we learn about the dog was the next evening when he's burying the dog on his ex wife's lawn
I'm not sure the SEC could have done anything, and I don't think they did anything illegal. They are constantly evaluating stocks, bonds, equities, etc. They made a determination that these "products" were flawed and sold them. They could have been wrong, and would have just sold a lot of very profitable holdings. That's the nature of the game. Like Ramesh said, it's theirs to sell.
@@isaachaze1 No it would have been illegal as set out in the film. It would have been illegal if they sat on the problem for a significant time without telling the market or made misleading market updates (i cant remember exact timescales and its different for different countries). But night before theyd be fine.
There are some things you just dont put on paper/email/messenger, unless you put privelleged information on though as it would be used as context in any legal matter by prosecution. All large/medium sized firms do that.
“The kid’s a killer” is a great line, because it shows how ruthlessness is rewarded in this world, and empathy holds you back. Sam works for Jared, despite having probably almost 20 years of experience on him because Sam is more empathetic. Sam cares about how a fire sale will affect his counter parties, Jared sees them as dumpsters for his toxic assets. Sam cares about his dog, Jared will compel his minions to go track down Eric dale the night after he got laid off and might be in mental health trouble just to make sure he doesn’t leak any info. Not only is he a cold, heartless wretch, but he kinda seems to like it. Almost like a game for him. While the janitor in the elevator doing honest work might be losing her house and half her retirement savings because of how the Jareds of the world play the game.
Jared is a senior person, the smartest after Tuld and understands that it's better to have team coworkers like Sullivan, who are happen to be more intelligent than you if they are on your side. His got perfect subordinate qualities as he waits to his superior's decisison (Tuld) in direction to take, before he declares alternative solutions to the problem.
May I suggest that Tuld inserted Jared to do his bidding and be a buffer of sorts. His youth and ambition are used against him and allow Tuld to control him (Jared). We can see this in the final meeting when Tuld leads him to making a decision to "sell it all today". Sam, on the other hand, takes much more convincing. He's older, less controllable and likely the reason he's young Jared's subordinate.
Demi Moore's character was looking to discredit the Quinto Character and bull herself up by doing so. It was when Quinto revealed his credentials that she knew the game was up for her.
But it's also clear in the movie that her character was previously forced into pushing the risk envelope, even against her own advice. Now she's paying the price for not standing up for herself.
FYI Jared's watch is a Rolex Submariner two-tone with a eep blue dial, otherwise nicknamed "Bluesy"
Unfortunate costume mistake. While a nice, luxury watch to be sure it's not even close to high horology. Someone in his position would be wearing something like a Patek or A. Lange und Sonne.
@@SPECTRE_Island Not if they like the style of Rolex. While I do not wear any wristwatch myself, I find brands like Patek Philippe, Constantin Vacheron and others to look much too messy, with the mechanism showing, suns, moons and stars all over the place, or with some multi-coloured image on the face. I understand these are very expensive and intricate watches, but they look too busy to me. Rolex are relatively minimalistic. Some people prefer that.
@@pjacobsen1000 Gonna have to disagree. Watches like the VC Patrimony or the Lange Saxony are some of the most understanded luxury watches out there and certainly way less flashy than a two-tone Sub.
@@SPECTRE_Island Not necessarily true, but it's Söhne, not Sonne.
Pointing out a misspelling of the German word for 'Son' makes me think you're both a language and watch snob
What's really subtle about all this is that John's actions were entirely planned before Eric even started his project. John IS acting with more information and he told Jared about it as an eventuality which is why 1) Jared is so rattled and 2) why he decides to call John so fast: John instructed him to if it happened. If you combine John's 2 1-on-1 talks with Sam, you realize that John saw this coming and realized it would destroy most of "The Street," thus eliminating most of his competition ("most of us aren't going to make it out of this one") and putting him at the top of the entire market ("here's gonna be a LOT of money to be made here, it's all hands on deck"). That's why he didn't care about the effects of the fire sale: all the people who would blackball the firm would be out of business; Tuld didn't HAVE to care about what happened.
(Maybe Feudalism isn't an ideology, maybe it's just a lattice of practical relationships formed by the destruction caused by the most ruthless opportunist in a pre-collapse society)
The thing is, Tuld has no conscience and by their last conversation, Sam realizes that he has never truly known his friend of 40 years and was completely taken by surprise while Jared knew exactly what he was the entire time because they're virtually the same person.
I also like how Sarah took all these steps to blame others and cut them loose to protect her job and none of it helped in the end. They fired her even though she was the last man standing.
@Theomite. Excellent analysis. I will just say i think that Tuld has a 'limited conscience'. Part of his job is to protect shareholder's value. And he determines that the fire sale is, at this point, the only real way to do so. So he is doing his job. Also, as several have pointed out here, he does take the role of a leader seriously, and is gracious in his handling of Peter Sullivan.
@@alanparsonsfan He is unconcerned with the effect of his tasks on the larger scale. If you make a business decision that destroys the stock market and brings about the end of civilization, then the decision is unjustifiable. The entire idea is that doing the job will contribute to society not bring it to an end. And The Great Recession came close to doing just that.
@@Theomite It's not Tuld who decided that the securities aren't worth much, it is the market. Tuld is simply acting on that information first, and understands the value of being first. The market for securitized mortgages was going to tank, regardless of what Tuld did. Tuld's actions simply determined who'd be left holding the biggest bag of excrement at the end of the day, not whether or not it would be excrement.
@@iamamish Tuld knew the direction the market would go in and HE DECIDED to facilitate it. He CHOSE not to stop it or defuse it, but to allow the disaster to build so that he could seize power when it hit. But he also knew the disaster could destroy the entire system that he uses to survive and...didn't care: he was either going to be the Only Game In Town or have no game at all.
That's not passive opportunism, that's a depraved conquest initiative. Tuld is not at the mercy of The Market, his choices and actions can affect it, and he put civilization at risk to achieve his own personal goal.
@@Theomite "Yes, we destroyed civilization, but for a brief moment we generated a lot of value for our shareholders, so there's that." :)
The first time I watched I was surprised the higher ups accepted Peter's discovery so thoroughly and so quickly.
On subsequent viewings I realized they already knew ... or strongly suspected. That a bottom level Associate could uncover it meant the risk was too great to continue.
I don't agree, the banks and investment houses employ smart people like Eric and Peter to keep an eye on things.
We now know most the financial industry never saw this coming - they didn't have a clue
@@greenpedal370 Well, I bow to your superior knowledge of what all the finance execs knew or didn't know. Still, you'll note from The Big Short that even knowing something was wrong was not enough. There was a powerful and effective effort to cover up the story, to prevent the facts from becoming known, to prevent the facts from being acted on.
Certainly in the movie Margin Call the higher-ups knew. They talked about having known, it was a key part of the plot
At 5:36 when Ramesh says someone else could figure this out, and Jared says "understood". That's not a tiny detail. He's not "moved on from defining the problem". THAT is the problem. The complexity of figuring the value of everything isn't part of the motivation to sell it all. The warning from Ramesh "that someone else could figure it out" is the prime motivator.
They have too much money wrapped up in these mortgage products, but at that exact moment, they are still worth what they paid for them, because no one else knows there's a problem. The minute anyone else figures out it's a giant house of cards, the market panics and the value drops, leaving them bankrupt. This is the moment Jared realizes they have to have the fire sell, and get whatever they can out of the products, because they're on a doomsday clock to someone else figuring it out first.
If they had some proprietary secret information, and no one else was going to be able to put it all together... Then they would have quietly sold off their assets over weeks or months, getting top dollar for them, and not instigating a market crash.
Can't count how many times I've seen this movie. I love the foreshadowing of Seth getting fired for literally the entire film. The slow realization that Peter isn't his friend, and is actually annoyed by him, Jared's "what the f*** is his name again?" And indeed, his what the fuck am I doing here expression in the executive meeting. This film is just incredible.
I'm mid level management in a small manufacturing operation. Up to about 2004 we had to wear dress shirts and ties while at the office. Everyone of us kept a spare tie or two at our desk just in the event we forgot to bring one or it got mayo dripped on it. If Seth had wanted one he could have found one. He didn't want one. This is a sign of disrespect even though it was after work hours. Also, his leaving the bottle at the desk before entering the conference room was level 10 level stupid. Plus his constant asking personal questions especially salary probably nobody really liked him.
@@thomaschew2191He was too drunk to grasp the tie thing, LOL. Sometime around six o'clock he seems to have belatedly realized it.
ETA: Just watched the movie again. Seth didn't even know there was going to be a first meeting until he walked into the elevator after looking for Eric Dale and he literally walked out of the elevator and into the meeting. He knew there was going to be a partners meeting but may not have realized that he would be part of it while he was out on the balcony with Peter and Will. Of course, not putting his tie on after the first meeting, just in case, was kind of a dumb rookie (and somewhat intoxicated) move.
It also showed the progression of how out in the open the greed got across generations of the profession @@thomaschew2191
@@thomaschew2191 Nah, it was just a sign of him knowing it didn't matter anymore. That no one would even take notice of him, but at the same time he didn't fully appreciate what was going to happen. On a drunk night when the shit hits the fan, no one cares about salary talk. Been there, done that, didn't care to much about the junior people asking since everything were going down the drain anyway.
Seth was painting a 'fire me I'm a waste of space'' target on himself through all these meetings. Even though he didn't need to talk in any meeting, his body language, open-mouth expressions, lack of tie, plus haircut all screamed that he is out of his depth and immature. Actually really good and under-rated work by the actor, he looked exactly like new guys I've seen in meetings before.
I really like the choice to keep Seth in the meeting, he clearly would preferred not attended at all and the other characters barely acknowledge him, and when he is acknowledged its to remind the audience that the upper management could care less who he is.
In some ways he represents the audience, he is a silent observer to the meetings and has no sway over the choices made at the table.
I love the close, quiet early morning tension these scenes bring! It’s spot on for that time of the deep night where the spirits wander n wreak their havoc!
Good observation. This kind of small-hours of the night weirdness hangs over the whole movie. I love how nearly all the characters only show the slightest tiredness but seem more on edge as they are running on willpower. Apart from the doomed Seth who looks zonked out a lot of the time.
4:15 Them talking about selling and Buying is the MBS Business itself. The Banks purchased various Mortgage Loans and bundled them into MBS assets and sold them to Investors. Buying Mortgage Loans and Selling MBS Assets. If you only try to remove the exposure from selling the Assets without buying enough loans to continue the Business, word gets out that the firm is speculating a downturn in the mortgage market and everyone would start dumping their MBS assets immediately. Then the firm too would have to book massive losses. That is why Jared knew instead of unwinding in a normal method, they have to fire sale their exposure right away. So based on the 1.2 trillion (possibly some could be exposure from CDS trades) and 60 traders, they had to dump 20 billion of MBS per trader.
I came across a number of clips from this movie and watched them in random order and then I bought a copy of the movie and watched it. Seeing the clips first took nothing away from seeing the movie whatsoever. The movie is great, the clips are great and I have watched it several times. It is that good.
The reason they stopped buying is noted in the parallel movie The Big Short. The top management would know that the rating agencies had been fixing the books on their end, committing fraud, and there was no way to know if even an AAA-rated bond was worth anything at this point. They had to dump everything but what they knew was solid AAA-rated bonds that way they ended up with something worth value in the end.
My only quibble is I thought Sarah was not confirming Peter's qualifications but hoping to cast doubt on his abilities. Presumably Sarah, Sam, and Jared discussed all this with Eric and Eric's advice was ignored because he couldn't make the math work. Now, Peter has and Sarah is hoping he's wrong and the party isn't over. Spoiler, the party is over.
Good point. I could have leaned into that more when I said "on the surface, she's checking if his work has merit"
The two meeting scenes from this movie gave me flash backs because I was in meetings like that in my career in the financial markets. I am so glad that I am retired now and do not have to deal with this anymore.
This movie should have won an Oscar 👏👏 👏
If they stop buying, their goal of unloading the MBS assets is revealed. Their counterparties will stop offering market value to buy and question if they shouldnt be unloading too.
No they would be offering market value. The market value simply would decline.
Your analysis of the senior partner's meeting was STAGGERING!
The, "Our business is selling _and_ buying," wasn't an objective one purely about then numbers. He was implying that strategy in this market involves watching the other firms. If they don't buy, the everyone else is going to catch wind the assets were toxic and also attempt to dump. No one would buy. Therefore, they would be caught holding the bag.
The watch is a Rolex Submariner Date two-tone stainless steel and gold with a black face. Classic watch.
All in all, I think this is the best movie I have seen in the last twenty years. The absolute best acting. The dynamic
pauses, where silence says a lot. As a former financial analyst for a large brokerage firm, I knew that a lot of the
financial tranches we had were pretty much worthless, and that a big market bust was inevitable. This movie hit
all the right buttons.
Sam’s “what?” in the first meeting is amazing
The watch is a two tone watch (gold and steel), popular style in the 80s and could be a nod to "wall street" where Gordon Gekko also wears a two tone watch. The watch is also a Rolex, which has become the watch to wear if you want to be recognized for having an expensive watch, albeit not nearly the most expensive of luxury watches, it is "the" watch that will have instant brand recognition.
After watching the movie 6 times I am indeed exicted to learn what I missed.
The watch is a solid gold Rolex Submariner. A tool watch, yet in gold. It denotes someone who is wealthy but will get his hands dirty need be. Kinda like a gold AK 47, but more subtle.
Ive worked as a trader in currencies and futures in my early years, the whole movie is a "very over simplified" version of what happens in the trading arena.
Love your various analysis of Margin Call, as it’s one of my all time favorite films and you seem to have a knack for picking out details I’ve missed in my 900 viewings. But I have to disagree on one of your points - during the first meeting Jared Cohen doesn’t demand the time (twice) because he’s rattled, he does so as a power move to emphasize to everyone else in the meeting (and the audience) that A) he’s the alpha dog in the room, and B) time is critical in this situation. When a few minutes later the lawyer tells him that sooner or later their competitors will also discover the truth about the coming financial collapse Jared’s response drips with condescension (I’ll thank you for that). For all of them the countdown to doom has already started, and Jared Cohen is the only one who knows it. The watch symbolizes that.
Not a miss, but a nice detail is that the lawyer (in house counsel) at this meeting that says nothing is also the lawyer behind Sam during the Fire Sale speech.
Great and enjoyable analysis as always. I am just so impressed with how you think and how you put these breakdowns together!
I believe that “Selling and buying”dialogue have sarcasm connotation
I hope when you get to the fire sale speech, you note Jared's movement to the window where he stands between Peter & Will (the one whose efforts set destruction in place, the one whose oversight propels it, and the one who destroys it)
Jeremy Irons was the "Deus ex Machina" of that film, and what a great closer he was. The last two monologues in the movie (in the boardroom and while eating breakfast) were sublime. An explainer on the market crashes throughout history during his second monolog with an explanation in your marvelous succinct manner about how they all related to the 2007/2008 Mortgage-backed Security crash would be more than educational.
We almost didn't get the scene because Jeremy Irons had visa problems
LIKE the video if you've watched Margin Call more than once
Great job. I love your commentary.
Funny, I saw "first meeting" and then went looking for the rest.
My amazement never ceases; you can show me a film I've seen at least a dozen times and make it new again.
You and Rob Ager save me a lot on buying new movies! ;)
Thanks so much! Never heard of Rob, gonna look at his work!
Whoever played Jared was incredible
You missed out on the point from later on when Tuld goes to Sara to tell her that she is the sacrificial head to placate the board and she mentions that she brought this information to Tuld before - so he knew too - but that they kept trading even though they knew this could happen because the profits were too tempting.
The upshot is that the only persons who were not aware of the danger that the firm was in were Seth, Will and Romesh. Everyone else knew the year before and Eric Dale took the info direct to Will's boss Sam, because even though Will was Eric's direct boss, Will was 'trading' and Eric was 'risk' and the info needed to be discussed at a much higher level with Jared and Sara.
That was pretty on the spot. There are some very tight scenes in this movie. I had no idea that they'd cut out so much of the script.
Yeah, apparently there was a longer cut of the film that they whittled down to the final version. I think the final version is masterful - lots of ambiguity and room for interpretation, which makes it rewatchable. I recommend reading the script! Lots of interesting information hidden in there
Great commentary. I have watched this film several times recently. It gets better each time. There is a lot of character development going on that you do not notice the first time through.
The idea that Sarah isn't trying to undercut Seth's findings, but trying to give him full credit so firing Eric doesn't look like a mistake is something I didn't catch at first. That's a really subtle thing that's pretty brilliant. That even NOW, politics are still in play.
I think Margin Call is the best film made about the financial crash of 2008. It emphasises their cynicism ( the fire sale is straight up fraud) while also showing their incompetence (they knew there was a problem but ignored it until it was too late).
Loved it. Nice job!
I found it interesting that someone is still working at that hour in the copy room. It also takes a long time to prepare a presentation from raw data unless all Will and Sam did was copy and paste screenshots into powerpoint as Peter and Seth were out looking for Eric.
That's a good point about the presentation. I guess we have to suspend our disbelief on that
1st job out of college lasted 90 days literally. They lost big customer week i was hired; they combined two offices into 1 and no longer needed me . . .spring 1995.
You'd never see such attention to interpersonal / emotional nuance in a Disney or Marvel product.
There are brief hints re Tony Stark's backstory and PTSD in some of the marvel movies, but that's about it..
I always felt it was all the bosses realized that Peter was easily the smartest person in the room by a mile, and when he realized there was a major problem that they all knew was a bad idea (continuing to package MBS products even when they shouldn’t have continued to go up in value during a recession)
Sam later said to Jared that it doesnt feel like a bad dream, but rather that they finally woke up to reality that the banking sector was not actually too big to fail
lol, you nailed exactly how I've seen this movie. CZcams CLips finally watched the whole thing later. Solid movie.
As to why Cohen only went outside for a few seconds and then Tuld would fly in right away, it’s a telltale that they already know it’s gonna happen. He very likely just simply told his secretary: get Tuld on the phone, it’s happening
JC Chandor talks about the phone call in the Director's Commentary - I made a video about it: czcams.com/video/8fPLfVgtBr4/video.html
They had to stop buying and sell everything because they overleveraged (overborrowed) themselves to buy these MBS's in the first place. Once the market crashes ALL the MBS assets will be worthless on their books, good ones too, destroying their book value. This in turn means technical bankrupcy. In publicly traded companies like this, the shareholders will dump their shares which would kill them.
Clue to this is in the projected losses being greater than the market value of their company.
Even if they somehow lingered on, the Interest rate on their variable interest rate loans or on any new loans would go sky-high, which would kill them.
Loans in these companies are usually renewed, not paid off. They loan money when they think they can make more money than the cots of borrowing.
Other option might be to buy put options/short their positions (big short) and/or renew all their loans with long-term fixed rate low interest loans, or buy interest rate swaps, but that would work only for a part of their portfolio.
I think the silence from Jared before he tells Sam that he called him is him not wanting to admit that he needed to call him. The question from Sam is asked in a way where Sam already knew thats what he was doing, but he just wanted him to admit. Brilliant acting there..
I never caught the clothing change for Sam and Will.
And spacey looks like he got a spray tan haha
it was NOT ALL peters work, it says so in the dialogue, peter made it very clear that what he came up with was ONLY a very small part of the major part of the work he used MAINLY FROM ERIC , because he said eric was not able to FINISH the work because he was let go , so he passed HIS work on to peter to play with and expand upon... , that is very very very very important , so you can not make the statement that sarah made the right decision on firing eric...
Nice to see another of your videos! My notification are always on for your videos.
Thank you so much!
The watch is a Rolex submariner in blue ceramic. It’s indeed expensive $20,000 for the steel version and around $30 maybe in the gold, steel combination.
perfect analysis, as always :)
Great analysis by the way. One thing you overlooked though was the shot of the cleaning lady between the traders in the elevator. Implied there is that people like her will be left holding the bag.
I have a Master in Finance and this movie uses correct and real aspects of the field. Same with The Big Short.
"It's these VaR numbers that set this thing off" fron Ramesh is typically finance lingo.
This is my more favorite of the two meetings. The way Jared shuts them up for liabilty or damage control. With Peter giving his background. Awesome scene.
They all knew the risk! They all intended to ride the Karussell and billing-in bonus after bonus. They didn't need to listen to Eric! They were personally non less guilty than their institution or the whole industry. Thank you for pointing that out.
Well done video. I'm glad I subed. . It's common for office workers to have extra clothing in their cubes
the point of selling AND buying is to move money to other assets you think will perform better. the problem isn't that their current assets aren't performing as well as they'd like, the problem is a foundational correction that is about to occur in the entire market. EVERYTHING will turn to poop. dump it all, go liquid, and wait for the market to fix itself.
You missed some thing about the watch-many executives don’t wear watches to tell time-they wear them as a status-they use their iPhones to all time
It’s a Rolex submariner with gold trim. It’s expensive but not crazy expensice.
These reviews about Margin Call are excellent so now I can see what am underated mvoie this was about about Wall Street corporate culture.
1:50 I haven't watched all of your video yet. I do love your take about the watches. My one comment at this point is regarding Manager's/Boss asking the time. Manager's do this to ensure everyone present is on the same page. In this case he is not "too frazzled" he is doing what most Manager's do, especially if the meeting is getting ready to adjourn and they anticipate having to meet again. ( yes I have watch this movie.) In this case time is of the essence. I am excited hear what else you have to say.
Having been in these types of meetings (not fire sales, but swift executive action due to risk), he’s less frazzled than just deciding the action path. Both realizing the risk to him and what’s needed.
As soon as he went to call Tuld he had already decided what he was going to suggest, why, and was convicted of it.
Otherwise, good break down. 😊
Always thought he's looking out the window watching for his boss's copter arrival.
I think we are also seeing that Sarah is over her head trying to play at a level she is not capable of, with dire consequences.
I don't quite agree - she gets undercut, but both John and Jared went back on their previous agreement with her. (See the elevator scene and the John firing Sarah scene.) I think her hands were tied - she knew there was some sort of problem, John and Jared wanted to continue in the MBS market anyways.
I thought he meant selling and buying in the sense that if they just sold without buying it would be suspicious.
Rolex. Even the Rolex on each actor has a hierarchy. I know, been there.
There are also power plays at work in this scene. Jarod's constant asking for the time is a show of power, "I am too important to do such trivial tasks - that's what underlings are for." The hints of prior discussions may not relate to the exact problem revealed by Peter but may have been the company's overall risk management strategy or the margins that have been applied to the CDO products.
some important things, that have not being said, but you are getting closer
1:50 - I don't think he's too rattled to check his own watch, I think it's a display of authority. He could just check his watch and get the answer, but he makes someone else do it instead.
Great video and Great Analysis. This is a great movie. This is in the realm of Too Big To Fail and the Big Short.
Thanks so much! I have a video about The Big Short, Margin Call, and Too Big to Fail if you haven't seen it: czcams.com/video/a1EfGnB188E/video.html
Love this movie. Great analysis.
I thought the Tetris watch was space age witchcraft when it first came out back in the early 90s. Little kids are so dumb lol. Love the channel, glad to know I'm far from being the only person who is oddly infatuated with this great film
1:10 the watch is a black dial two toned gold Rolex submariner around $16,000
Perhaps he asks the team what time is it to emphasize to them that the clock is ticking.
He is too smart not to know that he is wearing a watch.
Having worked for a big bank, this is totally accurate. Top heavy org chart and there's always one young, cutthroat guy up high that is anointed the Golden Child (Jared) and an older, wise man (Sam) that is kept for his knowledge with no more upward mobility. Of course most employees end up cuttables like Seth, Will or Sarah.
good analysis
The watch is just there to show status, that's why he asks for the time several times, though it's clear that he has a watch...
@NMS1872 makes the key point of needing the speed of the fire sale. It's not for efficiency or convenience sake. It's part of "Be first." The speculative bubble is about to burst, so they need to unwind their positions before the bottom drops out of the demand / value / price. Soon there won't be buyers. The assets are so toxic, and everyone's so leveraged-up that they have to dump them within hours not days to stay ahead of the inevitable crash
In regard to the question of why they are only selling and not buying, I’m not an expert but a simple answer might be that they will suffer such huge losses in the fire sale-Tuld says “I’ll have to pay”-they probably had no capital to buy other assets. If you saw the movie “The Big Short” there was a scene where a large investor came in and demanded his money from Dr. Deberry and Dr. D refused because he then would have no money to pay for his credit default premiums. Same thing.
Jared is indeed bemused that Peter's resume is so impressive, but the reason he's bemused is because of the undercurrent of backstory that you allude to in another place - Peter's qualifications are so unimpeachable as it relates to analysis of the data that Sarah can't simply disregard the warning coming from Peter the way she obviously did when it came from Eric Dale and Sam.
A brokerage firm is suppose to make markets and charge fees for the transactions. Selling would indicate a stock/bond dump and raise concerns lowering the market value of the products. Buying the swaps on the mortgage bonds would have been wise.
subscribed after Ryu - Ken comparison
Any clue as to why David Horn (in-house legal council) has no dialogue throughout the movie? He is introduced in the 1st meeting, attends the 2nd meeting, and stands behind Sam during the Fire Sale. And he remains silent all throughout.
Also interesting that IMDB does not mention the actor who played David Horn.
I recently watched Margin Call with the Director's Commentary and there is a bit of insight that might answer your question. JC Chandor said that since the film was indie and had a very tight budget, none of the extras could talk. (I think he may have said that they couldn't talk to the main cast in scenes, but I can't remember if it was that specific.) So, in every single scene they're in, they're silent. I think the actor for David Horn was an extra that they assigned to this quiet role. If you watch Sam's first speech, David Horn seems to be in the background wearing a blue shirt. So, that leads me to believe he was an extra.
David Horn is introduced in the original script as well, and he doesn't have any lines.
I think David being silent works well. He's like the specter of the firm - everything they say and do in the meetings leading up to fire sale is being monitored for legality. Even John, the CEO, can't escape this specter.
I did have a section about David Horn in the drafts of this video, but I took it out because it had to do with the whole film and not just this scene.
Great Cast
They want to sell and not buy because the market is going off a cliff. In the Senior Partners meeting, Sam said they would be selling at a 35% discount by lunchtime. Bear in mind that something is not worth any intrinsic value in the short term, it is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it. With options, it's even worse, because they have an expiry date.
Here is my contribution to the analysis of this scene. When Will (and Peter and Seth) are excused from the meeting, Will knows that the next words coming out of Jared's mouth will be related to the location of Dale and he doesn't want to have to do what he previously had Peter and Seth do, that is go out and find Dale. So that is why he gets out of the conference room so quickly. It does however backfires as after the second meeting Will (and Seth) are sent out to pick up Dale at his home.
Wow you're good at this. Can you please do Big Short next?
Thanks so much! I have a video where I talk about the Big Short, check it out here:
czcams.com/video/a1EfGnB188E/video.html
Jared asks what time it is as a way to feel and assert power in a situation where he will have to do a big move
the way the student and the master reply to the same question from sam, Do you, jarred answered yes, tudd fires back DO YOU
There is an overriding theme of finance being useless.
1. The two heroes are a rocket scientist and an engineer.
2. The engineer talks about a bridge and the time saved in peoples lives as his greatest achievement.
3. Spacey's character mentions that he has worked for so long and has nothing to show for it. He said if he had dug ditches, he would at least have the holes. Again a nod to doing real things like engineering. Also foreshadowed the end where he digs a ditch.
4. The CEO also says something to the effect of the financial system is just paper and all made up. As a firm operating in that sphere and only working to boost the $, shows they are a shell of a firm.