If your doing a 2hr session and not eating you could add a few grams of Himalayan Sea Salt to the mix Jesse shows, which contains 108 trace minerals, magnesium, potassium, iron so many others. It also helps water abortion eg: what's in a drip line when you go to hospital to keep you hydrated? Saline mix which is simply salt/water blend. By the way adding salt makes it Isotonic. Salt is Electrolytes as it contains Sodium.magnesium,potassium or as with himalayan 108 different minerals in trace amounts....Research it and experiment with what works for you. I prefer adding Table salt for hot Queensland rides.
@@nerocoaching I wish I had money to give to you to convince you to make more videos. 🙂 Been binging on your backlog! It's been extremely useful to me. Thank you for everything you've done up to this point!
One small remark, they say in the study that 1:0.8 tot 1:1 ratio of MALTODEXTRINE to fructose, this is not the same as the ratio of glucose to fructose. Maltodextrine is chain of glucose ranging from 3 to 20 glucose molecules. With this binding we lose a water molecule, thus some mass. In the studie itself they state: 'The oxidation rate of ingested maltodextrin was given as grams of glucose equivalents oxidized, assuming that 1.00 g of maltodextrin provides 1.11 g of glucose, owing to the property of dehydration of the maltodextrin(28).' This would change the optimal range of glucose:fructose to 1.11:(0.8-1) i.e. 1:(0.726-0.901). And since table sugar is sucrose and this has a 1:1 glucose to fructose ratio we are close to optimal. For me, student, this is the optimal solution since the price per kg is affordable for me and thus usable. If you want to optimize this ratio you could at some more glucose to the table sugar via maltadextrine or dextrose. But what you can actually see from these findings is that sucrose also false into the margin of error. Namely, if we look at the margin of error it could as well be that 1:1.25 maltadextrine to fructose is the most optimal ratio which translates to 1:1.126 glucose to fructose ratio. Hence every ratio within 1:(0.726-1.126) glucose-fructose is of the same margin of error with the highest probability that 1:0.8 glucose to fructose being the optimal. Also within this range 1:(0.726-1.126) glucose-fructose we see only a difference of 72.5-74% (roughly measured with my eyes) which is very small in my opinion. So I will just use normal table sugar since a difference between 72.5% and 74% is so small and also false within the margin of error. Tl;TR: Normal table sugar false according to the literature within the margin of error to be optimal. So using this will most probably give you the same results and if any different then very slightly less optimal. But looking at the price tag I this is unbeatable. Thanks to Jesse Coyle for this video to give everyone a fair change and making cycling less for the elites (income wish).
I think we all understood the English but might be having more trouble with the numbers. Thank you for clarifying the obvious by correcting the spelling :)
This is bang on mate. Cycling has become so commercialised its almost an impossible hobby to fund for most with all the ' essential' latest and greatest gear, tech, nutrition you need. $6 a serve for mautren or 0.35c a serve for sugar and electrolyte tab mix. That over a year is probably a new set of carbon hoops every year!
@@judd7699 Basically a sodium tablet with some other goodies to help your body function during a hard workout. SiS do some great ones. Or as some do, simply add a pinch of Himalayan salt to your drink.
Only idiots with money get sucked into spending big bucks in cycling. People don't need expensive gear if they are not professional cyclists. Lots of cyclist on developing countries who use budget equipment and still enjoy the hobby. You don't need a Mclaren to be a car enthusiast. A pre owned miata is a better choice. The same is true with cycling.
Sugar in bottle was literally game changer for my training, at first I had GI problems with relatively low dosages like 40g per hour, tho It did not took very long and now iam comfortably ingesting pretty much as much sugar as I want/need so 120g/h is no problem for me, Also I find that my glycolitic energy system is working soo much better now as I learned my body (gut) to oxidise so many carbs
That was cool, thanks. I've been hearing a similar thing from the 'Fast Talk' guys for a couple of years. As you mentioned, dextrose/ glucose are slightly less sweet tasting than sugar/ sucrose. Glucose also absorbs a bit faster than sugar (glycaemic index 100 vs 65?). I was just mentioning this in case people wanted a less sweet and/ or faster acting hit of carbs. Buying dextrose from home brew shops runs around $4/kg whereas sugar goes for about $2/kg at the supermarket. Both still really cheap. As for the salt thing, I've tried two methods; 1. Salt tablets. When you've been sweating for a while, put one in your mouth and suck it, if it tastes good, leave it, if it doesn't, spit it out and try again later. You're body seems to lead you in the right direction on this. 2. Just put a pinch or two of salt (I go for the fancy Himalayan pink stuff) in your plain water bottle, you won't even taste it.
I forgot to mention, a have friends on multi day heavy events using water sugar salt ( hot weather in Brazil may require a lot of salt ) and they said some people adding a little vinegar for whatever reason. I ‘ve tried and a splash of vinegar also reduces the sweetness ! You should try, and I used regular vinegar not fancy organic apple cider … it worked fine !
From a cooking perspective it makes sense. Usually with the three main tastes sweetness, acidity and saltiness you can „fix“ an imbalance in one of those by adding more of the others. Depends on context of course but for example you could fix an oversalted meal by adding a bit of sugar.
I use two scoops of white sugar with 1 scoop of Brigalow brewers dextrose ($4:00/kg at Coles) for 60g CHO at 2:1 ratio. Then I add diet cordial to flavour. Total cost is about 30 or 40 cents. If I want 80 g CHO I add 100 mL of sugar cordial instead of diet cordial.
I've been experimenting with sugar for 3 years as part of my nutrition. During that time I've done stage races, ultras, multi-day expeditions, crits, an everesting, multiple 24 hour brevets, and many many hours on the indoor trainer doing intervals through the winter. All the fancy products are great for the reasons Jesse said, and I would add in convenience - it's nice to rip open a packet when your 5 hours into a big ride and know everything is dialled. But for day-to-day training, such products are pointless. Sugar works great. I would advise to give your stomach time to adapt - starting at 30g an hour and going up by 5-10g every few rides helps with gastro regulation (unless you're already smashing gels, in which case go at it!). Starting straight in at 60g if you're not already eating gels is likely to hurt. Took me about a month to comfortably handle 60g an hour (equivalent of about 3 gels), and another 2-3 months before I could go above that or my guts couldn't handle it. Second point Jesse could have covered is matching the amount of sugar to the energy (esp carb) needs of the ride. Taking in 60-90g an hour on a 2-3 hour endurance ride is unnecessary, just eat real food. He's got a good video on fueling longer rides: that: czcams.com/video/YEDIAKaeAf0/video.html For high intensity sessions sugar is the way to go. Sipping your sugar rather than bombing your gut with gels is way more comfortable and in my experience leads to a smoother delivery of energy, rather than the up-down-up-down feeling that can come with taking a gel too late.
Good real talk here! The first year I used only banana or date smoothies in my bottles. Then I went to juice or cane sugar. All of this has to much minerals and damages the teeth after some time because of the fruit acid. Now just Maltodextrin or in harder interval sessions malto with some juice, syrup or sugar (something like 4:1 ratio) I think pure sugar is performance wise the best option but in terms of dental health just malto feels a lot better to me. It don't pushes me to fast over my limits and I can easily consume 120g per hour at 62kg bodyweight.
Jesse, tried sugar water for the first time today. All I can say is THANK YOU. First time I was able to average 75 g/h. It was either a really good day on the bike or those extra 15 g/h worked magic.
I am using a combination of table sugar, maltodextrin, fructose, salt and magnesiumnitrat. I buy everything in larger bags which is reasonably cheap and then mix myself. I have two mixes. Low intensity: 80% fructose 20% table sugar very little salt and magnesium I usually fill up ~15-30g carbs per 0.5l High intensity: 50% maltodextrin 25% table sugar 25% fructose some salt and magnesium I usually fill up ~50-80g carbs per 0.5l with this one The Low Intensity one is mainly fructose because that one has a much lower GI index, thus it will be absorbed slower. High intensity more glucose and malto for quicker absorbition (higher GI index). Magnesium is important to be "nitrat" and not "oxid" as nitrat will be absorbed much quicker. Oxid is better to raise your electrolyte level for longer time, e.g. for supplementing every morning, but not during workouts.
Ive been using sugar, a dash of lime juice and a pinch of sea/himalayan salt for a while now. Taste is great, very cheap, and still feel as good as taking an expensive powder. For recovery, I take creatine, sugar, salt, coco powder and protein. Weigh it all out and I am ready to rock n roll the next day
A bag of maltodextrin & fructose mix it to whatever you want and costs next to nothing... Excellent video as usual. Used sugar as well and have no problems at all.... One of the main advantages is cost... SIS and Maurten are as expensive as putting fuel in your car!
Thanks Richard. I'd love to do the Malto & Fruc mix myself, I'm just too lazy. And sugar I find works for me so haven't been tempted to try mixing my own.
I've used Nestea or Lipton Iced tea powder or Tang for years because they're cheap at Costco and the local Winco supermarkets. Country Time is also good, but the acidity gets to your teeth after a while. Mix heavy and carry a plain water bottle as a chaser and to rinse your mouth for dental hygiene after every sip (some of us don't like it too sticky sweet). Very common for these powdered mixes to have electrolytes and vitamin C fortified, so that's a plus.
Recently I added some Tang to make my water less boring. I dunno if it was my mood or the Tang, but i flew up a 2km 8% climb at the weekend. Took over 2 mins off my previous PR. Ill definitely give the sugar thing go!
I've tried sugared water (actually maltodextrin:sugar=1:2) for last few weeks. And it works brilliantly. I've never managed to finish 140km ride so easily. No pressure in stomach, no trouble with guts. The only thing I've noticed is a light headache the next days, which occurs every time after I used sugared water. I didn't experience that before.
Hi, I really enjoy your content and since energy gels and bars are pretty expensive, I figured I'd try fueling with sugar. It all went very well as long as I trained indoor (winters are pretty cold here in Switzerland and the sun sets quite early). But when I tried it outside, as it was 4 degrees celsius, the texture of the sugar didn't mix with the water and it was pretty awful to drink! I will give it a go again, when the temperatures will be higher!
Shake it vigorously before you head out. Literally never had any issue in over 10k km using mostly sugar water and lime juice concentrate. Just shake it like you mean it and then some more and it should be good
I usually add the juice of 2 lemons in my 800ml water bottle with 100-120mg of white sugar this makes for a more palatable energy drink with the added benefit of some magnesium from the lemon juice.
@@bullerfugl sugar is ph neutral. Sugar CANT cause dental errosion. Dry mouth and acidic foods will though. Ive coached a lot of dentists with weight loss. They all confirm what I say.
@@durianriderssugar's PH isn't what causes damage, but rather that it's food for the Streptococcus mutans and Streptococcus sobrinus bacteria that live in your mouth. Both types of bacteria feed on sugar and form plaque, which is the sticky substance dentists clean from your teeth during a routine visit. If this plaque is allowed to sit on your teeth and is not washed away by brushing or saliva, it will eventually become acidic and eat away at the enamel on your teeth.
I have been using Horleys Replace Isotonic for decades but mostly for longer rides. Most days I prefer brown sugar for taste (has some mollasses)with a pinch of salt and some lemon juice for electrolyte. Very cheap and works well.
sugar + lemonjuce + salt = ready to rumble! If it´s hot you can ad cream of tartar (cheap potassium source) I also use homemade fruitsyrup (raspberry, currant) as sugarsource, ad some extra sugar and salt 😋
I use malodextrin, sugar and sodium citrate with gatorade for taste. Tried straight sugar and it was too sweet. The malodextrin cuts that back for me to a tolerable level. Much less expensive than gels and I've seen better results.
Yup. same here. I use sugar 100g/hr no problems. I save hella cash. Wish more people knew (but at the same time, i feel like sucrose is my secret weapon that ppl dont know about) :))
Great video. Ive been doing the same in training and occasionally races since 2020. Just have to be careful and not take too big of a sip at once, depending on how concentrated your sugar mixture is, because you can get a stomach ache.
Exactly ! I think many eventually find high priced "sports drinks" are just a gimmick that is easily replaced with as you show sugar....Anyone reading nutrition labels will see this soon enough. I have also used pure Maple syrup once in awhile but nothing beats sugar for cost per carb value ;) Thanks for the Vid!
Hey Jesse (@nerocoaching), first things first: love your videos! I recently dove into the endurance cycling world and one thing puzzels me: nobody (at least I couldn't find anybody) talks about the health effects of consuming that much sugar. Could you shed some light on this topic? Make a video, answer with a link to other videos or websites.. would highly appreciate it! Keep it up!
@@nerocoaching 2x decathlon 500ml soft running flasks , great for racing since you can hold a lot of carbs in your pockets and not rely super heavily on feed zones/cars for fuelling
@@joseph.inglis good info, ive been meaning to try basically the same thing for a while now. I guess you mix your carb powder with just enough water to get it fluid and then add Xantham powder till you get the desired gel consistency yah?
Interesting to learn this as I started a very similar approach for +100km rides and feel great throughout! Not a racer though. I use at least 50g of Dextropur Plus powder (dextrose + b-vitamins) for the taste, the rest table sugar. Although, I also add coconut milk and MCT oil in one of the bottles and carry a 250ml water pouch to wash the tastes off if needed. Some started to take ketones, I'd rather use MCT as a fuel source and apparently it pushes the body to produce ketones itself. Long rides require more than just sugar, that's why I have to bring all sorts of liquid and solid calories.
Hi Jesse, thanks for a very interesting video and it has clarified some questions I had in relation to SIS switching their Gluc/Fruc ratios. Tonicty is something people might find out the importance of only after pushing the tonicity limits and finding themselves on the side of the road at an event with their pants down 🤪🤣. Anyway its a balancing act that we all have to find out what works for us. Back in early 1990s when I raced I used to mix in my bottle 1/4 orange juice (basically taste but I was also aware had some vitamins etc) then I would add extra teaspoons honey to the point where the mix would give me the shits then back off a few teaspoons (this was obviously trial and error over a few training rides). This I guess was my first exposure to maxing out the carbs in the bottle and walking the tonicity tight rope! 👍
I've been using sugar with lemon juice for about a year since running out of my last powder. The latest twist is that I've been making a shrub mix from blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, balsamic vinegar and sugar. It's a more complex flavor that I like and can drink more. When I elevate the sugar for ride drinks there is no vinegar taste.
That's a great alternative but according to the literature, there might be a drawback if you want to scale to higher than 60 grams/h. Maltodextrine is complex string of Glucose which combines well with fructose and breaks down fast, there are studies that show sugar can't be broken down as fast to glucose and Fructose in the molecular level, so on higher dosages, it might not be that efficient and absorbed fast. However, If you have tried getting 100+ gr/h and you were fine, perhaps you can do that no problem!
I've struggled to find any research that compares oxidation rates directly between sucrose and an equivalent mix of maltodextrin:fructose, so while in theory what you are saying could be true, I haven't seen any evidence on it. If you've got titles to the papers you are talking about, I'd be interested to see. There are other popular products like Maurten who don't use maltodextrin as an ingredient, so if it is true that maltodextrin:fructose mix is more effective, I'd be curious why Maurten don't use it. I suspect what you are explaining could be true in theory but in reality if you tested it there I predict there wouldn't be a meaningful difference in uptake rates between sucrose, glucose & fructose or maltodextrin & fructose (assuming all mixed in 1:1 ratio). But again, it's all guessing because I haven't seen any data on it
Funny how many times Ive gone back to this video, I wonder about the no Electrolyte bit, I sweat a lot and wonder if I should try adding sodium to the mix, somewhere around half a teaspoon per bottle, can I get your thoughts?
@@joshuaperez278 Im not Jesse but I can comment as follows:- If you are a heavy sweater then try adding salt to get sodium at 800mg/L (this is about same amount sodium you will find in 1L Gatorade endurance). FYI 1g salt = 400mg sodium so 800mg sodium = 2g salt. If u dont hav an accurate scale then 1 teaspoon is approx 6gms salt and you can figure out the ratio from there. Good luck with your results 👍
Tried it today with 100g in a 600ml bottle (plus a squirt of lemon juice for flavour) and got through it all in 90mins without issue. No gas, unlike some sponsor product. 👍
Logic is flawless as ever. Are there negative health consequences in terms of insulin resistance, onset of diabetes. I'd like to hear from those who have tested this long term. Thanks in advance. Personally I struggle with high fodmap foods, so sweeteners in SIS absolutely destroy me took ages to figure it out. Sugar is low fodmap amazingly, but I'm still wary.
Jesse, how / what do you use to get electrolytes ? do u add anything to your "sugar bottle " or do u have a separate bottle with a hydro tablet / powder of some sort in it? would taking a salt tablet or 2 on a long hot ride do same thing? thinking say 3 peaks .. how to drink carbs and electrolytes ? thanks
I see a problem with this with T2 diabetic cyclists. What we want to do it prevent a hyperglycemic spike and sugar directly spikes. We have a problem with fueling always. I am always trying to fuel on a tight rope. Too much, I feel sick. Too little, I feel sick.
As a type 1 cyclist I also struggle with this. Use a CGM to track your levels while riding, my experience so far is that sugar water is easier to fine tune the carb intake with, sipping small amounts over a long time rather than have to eat a bunch of stuff. Trying and learning, there's not really any shortcuts cause we diabetics respond so individually. Happy riding!
Do my protocols mate and I GUARANTEE you will lose your T2D condition. Ive been working with diabetics since 1999. I dont know anyone who has gotten better results. You will also lose all that body blubber if you do ALL my protocols.
Keen to give this a go! With your sugar mix, do you consider the amount of water to sugar? Looked like you added 120gm sugar to a 750ml bottle? I only ask as most of the branded mixes give you an ideal ratio of powder to water ie. Couple of scoops mixed into 500ml for 45 g carbs for argument sake..
...cause science, and no wanketering. Love it. I make my own gels out of Dextrose/Maltodextrin with Bickfords cordial for a bit of flavour. Cheap as and just as good. Nice job and thanks for stating the science.
The only issue I find with fueling with sugar is that the bottles are really difficult to clean without a dishwasher. I use a sugar sirup with blackcurrant flavour and Fuel of Norway drink mix. They are easier to clean out of bottles than table sugar, not that I know why though
Ive been using sugar in my bottles since 1996. Ive never used a dish washer. Ive got one as it came in the place I bought but Ive never used it. Just use a bottle brush if you need to clean a bottle mate.
About the study from 2013 and why they didn't use this ratio of 1:0.8 before: most scientific studies that have been performed use 2:1 ratio. Therefore this is a heavily researched ratio, and with that strongly backed by science that this works well. So, brands started to use that it is became the norm. Then there was one brand (nduranz) changing their formulation based on this old study, plus some researchers (podlogar who is actually working for nduranz as well, not a coincidence) started using this ratio of 1:0.8 in their studies, building up more science there. Now, lots of brands are copying this new ratio
I've been using sirup for years but sometime I was cramping in long hot events so I switched to a cheap sport drink which include some salt/stuff you loose while sweating and it's perfect. No need to buy some unobtainium stuff, pro cyclists are known to use a lot of sirup even if the whole marketing thing means something sophisticated is written on their bottles.
Hey mate good honest info i have been doing the sugar thing for close to 7 years now before that did honey and bananas even baked potatoes in the back pockets , now even tho i,m over fifty am riding way faster and way further and day after day than i ever have on what i call racing coke 1 / 4 normal coke 100g raw suger in 600ml bottle drink every fifteen minutes its awesome i do add sea salt in hot weather .
I’ve been using sugar in one bottle and water in the other for about 2 years now! Such a great way of getting fuel in fast and it’s easy. Just as potent as gels etc. Interested to hear your thoughts on Bi Carb soda and beta alanine
The AIS has some very well written, detailed guides on various supplements, including both of those. Defs worth a look: www.ais.gov.au/nutrition/supplements/group_a Bicarb is in group A
Yes, sugar works just fine. Not sure why you don’t want any electrolytes in there? I add in salt depending on how much I will be sweating. To reduce the sweetness I add citric acid, about 1% of the carbs, makes it taste like a regular sports drink.
Great video and very insightful. I currently use a customised Infinit nutrition mix but keen to try this. What are your thoughts on products like Infinit which allow you to incorporate protein, amino acids and caffeine in to your drink products? To maximise your session and recovery or even for those longer endurance rides does a sugar and electrolyte mix need be supplemented with something offering these nutrients?
Hi Jesse! Great video, verry useful as a beginner cyclist. Just one question. Is this not verry unhealthy? I know science says 60-90 grams carbs per hour (or more), but as someone who grew up in a houshold that never had any soda and, rarely had sugary foods in the house this scares me. I know it maybe sounds silly, im trying to get over this.
I'm using dextrose mixed up with essential amino acids. Dextrose is the simplest form of sugar so it will be faster for your body to take it as energy and amino acids will repair the muscle tissue while you are braking it during race or exercise. Give it a try.
Dextrose is the most common form of glucose found in nature. Anyway the point is the body can absorb more carbs per hour when glucose and fructose are present than when its just glucose alone
Hello thanks for the video and sharing, I used it and it is very good for me the only thing is SALT. I need to use more in my drink mix. Also, what do you use for SALT? Thanks
In cold Canada there is issue with sugar dissolving in the water when it’s like 3 degrees C in the morning. I’m going to just heat it up and make a simple syrup mix. Basically gels. 😝
I get irritated when I drink sugary water. I do not mean irritated bowels or anything. I mean my mood - I get irritable, even angry for no reason. It happened so many times I no longer believe it is just a coincidence. It does not seem to happen with gels or sugary food, like chocolate waffles. Has anyone else noticed this? Sugary water sounds great on paper and I would love to save the money and fuel my rides just by sugar, but I can't get used to it. I find that the waffles - which are full of unhealthy crap like palm tree oil, artificial aromas, preservatives and stabilizers - make me feel energized and happy.
I never bothered with the gels like 80 kcal for nearly 2 quid plus a lot of packing waste compared to a kilogram of sugar in just a bit of paper for 70 pence which will fuel longer than I care to ride!
I watched this and then tried it for many months... worked well ! A doctor, cyclist mate, blabbed on about having to mix in maltodextrin, to help the bonded glucose and fructose separate, and become better used by the body..... so I kinda went away from it again. I also started wondering about my teeth.... perhaps I should revisit after watching your recent video...and reading the comments !
Team white sugar here :-) (although not as strong, just 7 grams/100 ml but I ain't no pro and do take some solids with me) I do add a bit of lemon syrup to my sugar to add some flavor and drop the obvious sweetness That sodium algenate stuff is I believe the gelling agent.
Astana WT team pretty publicly used sugar water and bananas as training fuel for a very long time. Not sure what they’re using these days but no reason to change!
2 very famous Astana riders told me how much of an influence Ive had on their careers and how big of a following I have in the WT amongst the english speaking riders.
Do you also carry a bottle of straight water to alterate with when drinking? I imagine the sugar water may not quench the feeling of thirst entirely, and straight water is probably good to 'flush' to mouth with every few sips
Also been doing this for years. Sprinkle of salt, fucktonne of sugar and a dash of what ever I'm feeling for flavour. 240g sugar in a 1l bottle x3 has gotten me through some gnarly centuries with 3km elevation.
Pure sugar is way to sweet for me. But maltodextrin is really tasteless to me. I just buy maltodextrin and dextrose in bulk and mix them in my bottles. Nor much more expensive than sugar from the grocery store. If you don't like the taste, add a sip of fruit juice or freeze dried fruit powder.
There are 2 kinds of sugar used in white or brown sugar - Sugar Cane and Sugar Beet. Sugar Cane is better for your gut and there's only 1 co. that actually uses sugar Cane & thats Tate & Lyle. So always look at who's the supplier on the back of the product.
Great video! Although I think that if you're not pushing for max performance on a long ride, 'real' food like fruit and whole-grain bread with water is more healthy than pure sugar or a commercial sports drink. I think this liquid-sugar fuelling is only relevant for athletes that really empty their energy reserves regularly and need to recover as quickly as possible.
@@rebinu Yes, the amount of sandwiches equivalent to 90grams/hour of sugar, for a 5 hour ride, would probably require a backpack :) My point was just that the energy intake needs to be balanced with the energy consumed by the engine. An elite endurance athlete in a long heavy training or race can't keep his energy up with 'normal' food during the ride. But most recreational athletes have an engine that consumes a lot less power. And they don't have the muscle-endurance to sustain that power for many hours. They don't need to take in 90 grams per hour. What is good for the semi-gods, is usually not so good for the mortals. Think before copy.
Why not just use HFCS 42 (High Fructose Corn Syrup 42% Fructose)? The ratio is generally 50% Glucose : 42% Fructose, with the remaining being other sugars that help begin metabolism and aide in the delivery of Glucose and Fructose to cells.
Cane sugar (sucrose) is the best source of energy. Sugar from fruit (fructose) is NOT the same. In fact it has the opposite effect. Stick with regular sugar and you exercise faster longer and with better recovery time.
Hey Jesse, very helpful! What are your thoughts on eating candy during workouts? Things like sour patches etc. I find that at home its the easiest and cheapest option. The macros to me look pretty fine so I'm curious if this is amongst best alternatives or I should switch to something else.
Whenever my sugar runs out and I need a few more fast carbs I usually pick up the next best, easy to chew candy from a gas station or supermarket. As you said it’s mostly sugar anyway and the other ingredients are pretty negligible. I personally wouldn’t go for anything I haven’t tried before and or any sour candy. Highly rate candy on a ride. There are videos somewhere of Peter Sagan stuffing down a whole two hands full of haribos after a race so if it’s good enough for a 3x world champ it’s fine for me!
@@nerocoaching I think maybe the BETA fuel might be better but this has me interested to somehow test it now. My experiences using it on longer harder rides suggests thats where it was better, like where I used it on a 200Km group ride in January it seemed to work well, but I've also done rides 100km to 150km tempo pace on the sugar water and it has been good, keeping the power up well. I shared this topic in our cycle club whatsapp and it ignited some debate from hard core BETA users but one good point (shared below) was raised which could be the area of difference maybe is this, Quoted from a felllow Camden Cycle Club member below "The DE or ‘Dextrose Equivalent’, essentially some Maltodextrin is essentially fibre and isn’t absorbed by the body at all, others are extremely easily absorbed. It has to do with the molecular structure of the sugar itself. Some go in fast, some go in slow and hang around, some pass through you. Put it this way: It explains a lot about why some formulas give you ‘queasy guts’." "My sister has been helping me with some research ‘nutritionist, works for a health company’, she contacted SIS professionally on my behalf. One thing that isn’t published anywhere that either of us could find is the DE scale of Maltodextrin they use in BetaFuel, i.e. the length of the glucose chain they use. She got an answer from SIS and it turns out it is between 6-8 (that’s extremely short!) the shortest DE chain maltodextrin that I can find anywhere is 18. I have readings and studies if anyone is interested (I’ve gone down a rabbit hole in the past few weeks). Sugar isn’t just sugar, at least not scientifically." So there is numbers and some differences there, sugar V Maltodetxrin but is it just absorbtion rate? or is there more? I think Sugar is fine for long rides and training, maybe Gels or BETA might be faster to absorb and therefore better in a race, but has anyone tested that? Wow, this is all super nerdy isn't it? sorry for the long reply
Sugar doesn't give you that fast carbs right away, it needs to be broken down into glucose and fructose first -- that takes time, plus stomach bacteria feeds on it and produces gas. Maltodextrin is not sweet and that's the beauty of it. You can/should still mix it 2:1 with fructose for short high intensity intervals, otherwise unused fructose will be converted into a fat (given that fructose is a slow carb converted into glucose by liver). Malto and fructose are cheap, if not cheaper than (some fancy) table sugar. I like adding some sea salt and citric acid for a flavor.
Why is no electrolytes good?
So you can customise how many electrolytes you need from a different source
@@nerocoaching gotcha, you’re adding whatever source you use to this mix assuming?
@@nerocoaching Pin this as a comment! Seems like most comments are asking this including myself. Save yourself some time!
If your doing a 2hr session and not eating you could add a few grams of Himalayan Sea Salt to the mix Jesse shows, which contains 108 trace minerals, magnesium, potassium, iron so many others. It also helps water abortion eg: what's in a drip line when you go to hospital to keep you hydrated? Saline mix which is simply salt/water blend. By the way adding salt makes it Isotonic. Salt is Electrolytes as it contains Sodium.magnesium,potassium or as with himalayan 108 different minerals in trace amounts....Research it and experiment with what works for you.
I prefer adding Table salt for hot Queensland rides.
How many grams is a few?
What a refreshing channel! None of that "stay tuned til the end" bullshit, thank you! Also no begging for likes and subs. Jesse is my hero!
Thanks man. Wish I had more hours in the day to keep making more videos
@@nerocoaching I wish I had money to give to you to convince you to make more videos. 🙂 Been binging on your backlog! It's been extremely useful to me. Thank you for everything you've done up to this point!
Lol
One small remark, they say in the study that 1:0.8 tot 1:1 ratio of MALTODEXTRINE to fructose, this is not the same as the ratio of glucose to fructose. Maltodextrine is chain of glucose ranging from 3 to 20 glucose molecules. With this binding we lose a water molecule, thus some mass. In the studie itself they state: 'The oxidation rate of ingested maltodextrin was given as grams of glucose equivalents oxidized, assuming that 1.00 g of maltodextrin provides 1.11 g of glucose, owing to the property of dehydration of the maltodextrin(28).' This would change the optimal range of glucose:fructose to 1.11:(0.8-1) i.e. 1:(0.726-0.901). And since table sugar is sucrose and this has a 1:1 glucose to fructose ratio we are close to optimal.
For me, student, this is the optimal solution since the price per kg is affordable for me and thus usable. If you want to optimize this ratio you could at some more glucose to the table sugar via maltadextrine or dextrose. But what you can actually see from these findings is that sucrose also false into the margin of error. Namely, if we look at the margin of error it could as well be that 1:1.25 maltadextrine to fructose is the most optimal ratio which translates to 1:1.126 glucose to fructose ratio. Hence every ratio within 1:(0.726-1.126) glucose-fructose is of the same margin of error with the highest probability that 1:0.8 glucose to fructose being the optimal. Also within this range 1:(0.726-1.126) glucose-fructose we see only a difference of 72.5-74% (roughly measured with my eyes) which is very small in my opinion. So I will just use normal table sugar since a difference between 72.5% and 74% is so small and also false within the margin of error.
Tl;TR: Normal table sugar false according to the literature within the margin of error to be optimal. So using this will most probably give you the same results and if any different then very slightly less optimal. But looking at the price tag I this is unbeatable.
Thanks to Jesse Coyle for this video to give everyone a fair change and making cycling less for the elites (income wish).
Falls
Typo "Tl;TR: Normal table sugar false=falls"
I think we all understood the English but might be having more trouble with the numbers. Thank you for clarifying the obvious by correcting the spelling :)
This is bang on mate. Cycling has become so commercialised its almost an impossible hobby to fund for most with all the ' essential' latest and greatest gear, tech, nutrition you need. $6 a serve for mautren or 0.35c a serve for sugar and electrolyte tab mix. That over a year is probably a new set of carbon hoops every year!
Hi - What’s an electrolyte tab - brand and where do you get these ? Thx👍
@@judd7699 Basically a sodium tablet with some other goodies to help your body function during a hard workout. SiS do some great ones. Or as some do, simply add a pinch of Himalayan salt to your drink.
Yeah I thought cycling was about saving money on fuel. That said im glad i don't have to run my car on energy gels.
Only idiots with money get sucked into spending big bucks in cycling. People don't need expensive gear if they are not professional cyclists. Lots of cyclist on developing countries who use budget equipment and still enjoy the hobby.
You don't need a Mclaren to be a car enthusiast. A pre owned miata is a better choice. The same is true with cycling.
Why use an electrolyte tab, just use salt, and some "lite salt" contains potassium for longer rides. Your diet can handle anything else.
Sugar in bottle was literally game changer for my training, at first I had GI problems with relatively low dosages like 40g per hour, tho It did not took very long and now iam comfortably ingesting pretty much as much sugar as I want/need so 120g/h is no problem for me, Also I find that my glycolitic energy system is working soo much better now as I learned my body (gut) to oxidise so many carbs
That was cool, thanks. I've been hearing a similar thing from the 'Fast Talk' guys for a couple of years. As you mentioned, dextrose/ glucose are slightly less sweet tasting than sugar/ sucrose. Glucose also absorbs a bit faster than sugar (glycaemic index 100 vs 65?). I was just mentioning this in case people wanted a less sweet and/ or faster acting hit of carbs. Buying dextrose from home brew shops runs around $4/kg whereas sugar goes for about $2/kg at the supermarket. Both still really cheap.
As for the salt thing, I've tried two methods; 1. Salt tablets. When you've been sweating for a while, put one in your mouth and suck it, if it tastes good, leave it, if it doesn't, spit it out and try again later. You're body seems to lead you in the right direction on this. 2. Just put a pinch or two of salt (I go for the fancy Himalayan pink stuff) in your plain water bottle, you won't even taste it.
Same here white sugar and pink salt ftw
The point is that combining glucose and fructose allows the body to matabolise more carbs per hour than what is possible than just using glucose alone
I forgot to mention, a have friends on multi day heavy events using water sugar salt ( hot weather in Brazil may require a lot of salt ) and they said some people adding a little vinegar for whatever reason. I ‘ve tried and a splash of vinegar also reduces the sweetness ! You should try, and I used regular vinegar not fancy organic apple cider … it worked fine !
vinegar has acetic acid which pushes carbs to muscles (helps)
From a cooking perspective it makes sense. Usually with the three main tastes sweetness, acidity and saltiness you can „fix“ an imbalance in one of those by adding more of the others. Depends on context of course but for example you could fix an oversalted meal by adding a bit of sugar.
I use lemon or lime juice. You can also use the granulated acid but it's very concentrated and can get too sour easily.
Did it today.. game changer. Used to use dextrose but now I’ll be switching to table sugar. Cheers and keep up the good content
Add a bit of salt
I use two scoops of white sugar with 1 scoop of Brigalow brewers dextrose ($4:00/kg at Coles) for 60g CHO at 2:1 ratio. Then I add diet cordial to flavour. Total cost is about 30 or 40 cents. If I want 80 g CHO I add 100 mL of sugar cordial instead of diet cordial.
I've been experimenting with sugar for 3 years as part of my nutrition. During that time I've done stage races, ultras, multi-day expeditions, crits, an everesting, multiple 24 hour brevets, and many many hours on the indoor trainer doing intervals through the winter. All the fancy products are great for the reasons Jesse said, and I would add in convenience - it's nice to rip open a packet when your 5 hours into a big ride and know everything is dialled.
But for day-to-day training, such products are pointless. Sugar works great. I would advise to give your stomach time to adapt - starting at 30g an hour and going up by 5-10g every few rides helps with gastro regulation (unless you're already smashing gels, in which case go at it!). Starting straight in at 60g if you're not already eating gels is likely to hurt. Took me about a month to comfortably handle 60g an hour (equivalent of about 3 gels), and another 2-3 months before I could go above that or my guts couldn't handle it.
Second point Jesse could have covered is matching the amount of sugar to the energy (esp carb) needs of the ride. Taking in 60-90g an hour on a 2-3 hour endurance ride is unnecessary, just eat real food. He's got a good video on fueling longer rides: that: czcams.com/video/YEDIAKaeAf0/video.html
For high intensity sessions sugar is the way to go. Sipping your sugar rather than bombing your gut with gels is way more comfortable and in my experience leads to a smoother delivery of energy, rather than the up-down-up-down feeling that can come with taking a gel too late.
Good real talk here! The first year I used only banana or date smoothies in my bottles. Then I went to juice or cane sugar. All of this has to much minerals and damages the teeth after some time because of the fruit acid. Now just Maltodextrin or in harder interval sessions malto with some juice, syrup or sugar (something like 4:1 ratio) I think pure sugar is performance wise the best option but in terms of dental health just malto feels a lot better to me. It don't pushes me to fast over my limits and I can easily consume 120g per hour at 62kg bodyweight.
Ever tried making inverted sugar?
Jesse, tried sugar water for the first time today. All I can say is THANK YOU. First time I was able to average 75 g/h. It was either a really good day on the bike or those extra 15 g/h worked magic.
Mind blown 🤯! Thanks for the awesome info
I am using a combination of table sugar, maltodextrin, fructose, salt and magnesiumnitrat. I buy everything in larger bags which is reasonably cheap and then mix myself. I have two mixes.
Low intensity:
80% fructose
20% table sugar
very little salt and magnesium
I usually fill up ~15-30g carbs per 0.5l
High intensity:
50% maltodextrin
25% table sugar
25% fructose
some salt and magnesium
I usually fill up ~50-80g carbs per 0.5l with this one
The Low Intensity one is mainly fructose because that one has a much lower GI index, thus it will be absorbed slower. High intensity more glucose and malto for quicker absorbition (higher GI index). Magnesium is important to be "nitrat" and not "oxid" as nitrat will be absorbed much quicker. Oxid is better to raise your electrolyte level for longer time, e.g. for supplementing every morning, but not during workouts.
Good video, Jesse. Not sure about this "too sweet" issue. Personally, I've never eaten anything too sweet 😁.
You need to visit an Asian sweet shop and try some gulabjamun, rasgulla, jilabi, etc...
Underrated comment lol
Ive been using sugar, a dash of lime juice and a pinch of sea/himalayan salt for a while now. Taste is great, very cheap, and still feel as good as taking an expensive powder. For recovery, I take creatine, sugar, salt, coco powder and protein. Weigh it all out and I am ready to rock n roll the next day
A bag of maltodextrin & fructose mix it to whatever you want and costs next to nothing... Excellent video as usual. Used sugar as well and have no problems at all.... One of the main advantages is cost... SIS and Maurten are as expensive as putting fuel in your car!
Thanks Richard. I'd love to do the Malto & Fruc mix myself, I'm just too lazy. And sugar I find works for me so haven't been tempted to try mixing my own.
Richard - so just buy these from your local supermarket? What brands do you use? 👍
@@judd7699 I use Bulk Powders and My Protein, but most health stores sell them..
I use sugar too. Brown, because I like the malt flavour, but I add a hydrolyte sport tablet which makes it about 75¢ a bottle
I've used Nestea or Lipton Iced tea powder or Tang for years because they're cheap at Costco and the local Winco supermarkets. Country Time is also good, but the acidity gets to your teeth after a while. Mix heavy and carry a plain water bottle as a chaser and to rinse your mouth for dental hygiene after every sip (some of us don't like it too sticky sweet). Very common for these powdered mixes to have electrolytes and vitamin C fortified, so that's a plus.
take a look into those fortified vit. C products. It’s known to hurt performance. If you need vit C, go natural with oranges.
Recently I added some Tang to make my water less boring. I dunno if it was my mood or the Tang, but i flew up a 2km 8% climb at the weekend. Took over 2 mins off my previous PR.
Ill definitely give the sugar thing go!
I've tried sugared water (actually maltodextrin:sugar=1:2) for last few weeks. And it works brilliantly. I've never managed to finish 140km ride so easily. No pressure in stomach, no trouble with guts. The only thing I've noticed is a light headache the next days, which occurs every time after I used sugared water. I didn't experience that before.
Hi, I really enjoy your content and since energy gels and bars are pretty expensive, I figured I'd try fueling with sugar.
It all went very well as long as I trained indoor (winters are pretty cold here in Switzerland and the sun sets quite early).
But when I tried it outside, as it was 4 degrees celsius, the texture of the sugar didn't mix with the water and it was pretty awful to drink! I will give it a go again, when the temperatures will be higher!
Little late...but you could just make "simple syrup" that'll mix perfectly.
Shake it vigorously before you head out. Literally never had any issue in over 10k km using mostly sugar water and lime juice concentrate. Just shake it like you mean it and then some more and it should be good
I usually add the juice of 2 lemons in my 800ml water bottle with 100-120mg of white sugar this makes for a more palatable energy drink with the added benefit of some magnesium from the lemon juice.
A little late but watch out for your teeth as well, straight acid + sugar spells dental problems on the long run
@@bullerfugl sugar is ph neutral.
Sugar CANT cause dental errosion.
Dry mouth and acidic foods will though.
Ive coached a lot of dentists with weight loss. They all confirm what I say.
@@durianriderssugar's PH isn't what causes damage, but rather that it's food for the Streptococcus mutans and Streptococcus sobrinus bacteria that live in your mouth. Both types of bacteria feed on sugar and form plaque, which is the sticky substance dentists clean from your teeth during a routine visit. If this plaque is allowed to sit on your teeth and is not washed away by brushing or saliva, it will eventually become acidic and eat away at the enamel on your teeth.
I have been using Horleys Replace Isotonic for decades but mostly for longer rides.
Most days I prefer brown sugar for taste (has some mollasses)with a pinch of salt and some lemon juice for electrolyte.
Very cheap and works well.
Daym thanks for the vid . I’ve been using ratios of sugar and malto to get the beta fuel Ratio of 2:1 and now you’ve made my life so much simplistic
sugar + lemonjuce + salt = ready to rumble!
If it´s hot you can ad cream of tartar (cheap potassium source)
I also use homemade fruitsyrup (raspberry, currant) as sugarsource, ad some extra sugar and salt 😋
Hello. How much salt do you add to a 750ml bottle? I’m interested in these sugar mixes. Thank you
I use malodextrin, sugar and sodium citrate with gatorade for taste. Tried straight sugar and it was too sweet. The malodextrin cuts that back for me to a tolerable level. Much less expensive than gels and I've seen better results.
Great content and channel. Keep up the good work.
Yup. same here. I use sugar 100g/hr no problems. I save hella cash.
Wish more people knew (but at the same time, i feel like sucrose is my secret weapon that ppl dont know about) :))
Thats whats up.
Great video. Ive been doing the same in training and occasionally races since 2020. Just have to be careful and not take too big of a sip at once, depending on how concentrated your sugar mixture is, because you can get a stomach ache.
Exactly ! I think many eventually find high priced "sports drinks" are just a gimmick that is easily replaced with as you show sugar....Anyone reading nutrition labels will see this soon enough. I have also used pure Maple syrup once in awhile but nothing beats sugar for cost per carb value ;) Thanks for the Vid!
Hey Jesse (@nerocoaching), first things first: love your videos! I recently dove into the endurance cycling world and one thing puzzels me: nobody (at least I couldn't find anybody) talks about the health effects of consuming that much sugar. Could you shed some light on this topic? Make a video, answer with a link to other videos or websites.. would highly appreciate it! Keep it up!
I've been mixing fruit squash with salt as my drink for cycling, been doing it for years and my super food is brown bread sandwich with butter & jam.
Have been using sugar, powerade and xantham gum to make my own gels for almost a year now, glad to know im not crazy
Nice, what do you use to hold the "gel"?
Gu sells washable sachets. I use them for my own home made gel mix
@@nerocoaching 2x decathlon 500ml soft running flasks , great for racing since you can hold a lot of carbs in your pockets and not rely super heavily on feed zones/cars for fuelling
@@joseph.inglis good info, ive been meaning to try basically the same thing for a while now. I guess you mix your carb powder with just enough water to get it fluid and then add Xantham powder till you get the desired gel consistency yah?
Interesting to learn this as I started a very similar approach for +100km rides and feel great throughout! Not a racer though.
I use at least 50g of Dextropur Plus powder (dextrose + b-vitamins) for the taste, the rest table sugar.
Although, I also add coconut milk and MCT oil in one of the bottles and carry a 250ml water pouch to wash the tastes off if needed. Some started to take ketones, I'd rather use MCT as a fuel source and apparently it pushes the body to produce ketones itself. Long rides require more than just sugar, that's why I have to bring all sorts of liquid and solid calories.
Nice idea to add just sugar, it worked fine on my previous ride of 110 k's. I did only 40 gr on 500ml and lasted ok. Thanks for the tip!
Been using this for 6 months and seems to work. Your bang on dude.
Hi Jesse, thanks for a very interesting video and it has clarified some questions I had in relation to SIS switching their Gluc/Fruc ratios. Tonicty is something people might find out the importance of only after pushing the tonicity limits and finding themselves on the side of the road at an event with their pants down 🤪🤣. Anyway its a balancing act that we all have to find out what works for us. Back in early 1990s when I raced I used to mix in my bottle 1/4 orange juice (basically taste but I was also aware had some vitamins etc) then I would add extra teaspoons honey to the point where the mix would give me the shits then back off a few teaspoons (this was obviously trial and error over a few training rides). This I guess was my first exposure to maxing out the carbs in the bottle and walking the tonicity tight rope! 👍
Bangers mate! I switched from Gu Summit Tea to my own mix of salt, maltodextrin, and fructose.
I've been using sugar with lemon juice for about a year since running out of my last powder.
The latest twist is that I've been making a shrub mix from blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, balsamic vinegar and sugar. It's a more complex flavor that I like and can drink more. When I elevate the sugar for ride drinks there is no vinegar taste.
Good tip. Maurten Drink Mix is like +$4 per (40g) serve
That's a great alternative but according to the literature, there might be a drawback if you want to scale to higher than 60 grams/h. Maltodextrine is complex string of Glucose which combines well with fructose and breaks down fast, there are studies that show sugar can't be broken down as fast to glucose and Fructose in the molecular level, so on higher dosages, it might not be that efficient and absorbed fast. However, If you have tried getting 100+ gr/h and you were fine, perhaps you can do that no problem!
I've struggled to find any research that compares oxidation rates directly between sucrose and an equivalent mix of maltodextrin:fructose, so while in theory what you are saying could be true, I haven't seen any evidence on it. If you've got titles to the papers you are talking about, I'd be interested to see.
There are other popular products like Maurten who don't use maltodextrin as an ingredient, so if it is true that maltodextrin:fructose mix is more effective, I'd be curious why Maurten don't use it.
I suspect what you are explaining could be true in theory but in reality if you tested it there I predict there wouldn't be a meaningful difference in uptake rates between sucrose, glucose & fructose or maltodextrin & fructose (assuming all mixed in 1:1 ratio). But again, it's all guessing because I haven't seen any data on it
Rice starch powder mixed in water and a little sugar just seems to be the best. 300g of carbs easily in one bidon.
tried it, works amazing.
Funny how many times Ive gone back to this video, I wonder about the no Electrolyte bit, I sweat a lot and wonder if I should try adding sodium to the mix, somewhere around half a teaspoon per bottle, can I get your thoughts?
Yes you should use electrolytes (salt) if required on a hot day, the amount you need depends on how hot it is and how much salt you tend to sweat out.
@@joshuaperez278 Im not Jesse but I can comment as follows:- If you are a heavy sweater then try adding salt to get sodium at 800mg/L (this is about same amount sodium you will find in 1L Gatorade endurance). FYI 1g salt = 400mg sodium so 800mg sodium = 2g salt. If u dont hav an accurate scale then 1 teaspoon is approx 6gms salt and you can figure out the ratio from there. Good luck with your results 👍
That's what Colombian cyclists have been doing for ages: agua panela. Cane sugar diluted in water. Tastes great and it's pure energy.
Totally. _Skim_ condensed milk is my go to. Similar carb to volume as gels.
I'm so used to sugar being bad I've avoided it. I'm pretty sure i screwed myself on past rides by using sugar free drink mixes too. Good info❤
Interesting - makes sense - keen to give this a try tomorrow.
Tried it today with 100g in a 600ml bottle (plus a squirt of lemon juice for flavour) and got through it all in 90mins without issue. No gas, unlike some sponsor product. 👍
Logic is flawless as ever.
Are there negative health consequences in terms of insulin resistance, onset of diabetes.
I'd like to hear from those who have tested this long term. Thanks in advance.
Personally I struggle with high fodmap foods, so sweeteners in SIS absolutely destroy me took ages to figure it out. Sugar is low fodmap amazingly, but I'm still wary.
I have been reading that there is no negative effect because you use the sugar only during exercise. So it is consumed right away
Thanks for this - been using table sugar with a scoop of electrolyte powder after watching your video with good results
If you want to get fancy, honey is 1:1 glucose to fructose as well. Same with banana and dates
Jesse,
how / what do you use to get electrolytes ? do u add anything to your "sugar bottle " or do u have a separate bottle with a hydro tablet / powder of some sort in it?
would taking a salt tablet or 2 on a long hot ride do same thing?
thinking say 3 peaks .. how to drink carbs and electrolytes ?
thanks
I see a problem with this with T2 diabetic cyclists. What we want to do it prevent a hyperglycemic spike and sugar directly spikes. We have a problem with fueling always. I am always trying to fuel on a tight rope. Too much, I feel sick. Too little, I feel sick.
As a type 1 cyclist I also struggle with this. Use a CGM to track your levels while riding, my experience so far is that sugar water is easier to fine tune the carb intake with, sipping small amounts over a long time rather than have to eat a bunch of stuff. Trying and learning, there's not really any shortcuts cause we diabetics respond so individually. Happy riding!
Do my protocols mate and I GUARANTEE you will lose your T2D condition.
Ive been working with diabetics since 1999. I dont know anyone who has gotten better results.
You will also lose all that body blubber if you do ALL my protocols.
Keen to give this a go! With your sugar mix, do you consider the amount of water to sugar? Looked like you added 120gm sugar to a 750ml bottle? I only ask as most of the branded mixes give you an ideal ratio of powder to water ie. Couple of scoops mixed into 500ml for 45 g carbs for argument sake..
have you tried MCT powder? I saw a video on GCN from a worldtour chef he used MCT powder along with maltodextrrin and fructose.
Spot on Jesse great vid 👍
...cause science, and no wanketering. Love it. I make my own gels out of Dextrose/Maltodextrin with Bickfords cordial for a bit of flavour. Cheap as and just as good. Nice job and thanks for stating the science.
The only issue I find with fueling with sugar is that the bottles are really difficult to clean without a dishwasher. I use a sugar sirup with blackcurrant flavour and Fuel of Norway drink mix. They are easier to clean out of bottles than table sugar, not that I know why though
Ive been using sugar in my bottles since 1996. Ive never used a dish washer. Ive got one as it came in the place I bought but Ive never used it.
Just use a bottle brush if you need to clean a bottle mate.
@@durianriders I've actually had decent success doing just that for the last month or so
About the study from 2013 and why they didn't use this ratio of 1:0.8 before: most scientific studies that have been performed use 2:1 ratio. Therefore this is a heavily researched ratio, and with that strongly backed by science that this works well. So, brands started to use that it is became the norm. Then there was one brand (nduranz) changing their formulation based on this old study, plus some researchers (podlogar who is actually working for nduranz as well, not a coincidence) started using this ratio of 1:0.8 in their studies, building up more science there. Now, lots of brands are copying this new ratio
I've used straight sugar and water MANY times over the years and it's only been a positive experience for me.
I've been using sirup for years but sometime I was cramping in long hot events so I switched to a cheap sport drink which include some salt/stuff you loose while sweating and it's perfect. No need to buy some unobtainium stuff, pro cyclists are known to use a lot of sirup even if the whole marketing thing means something sophisticated is written on their bottles.
Hey mate good honest info i have been doing the sugar thing for close to 7 years now before that did honey and bananas even baked potatoes in the back pockets , now even tho i,m over fifty am riding way faster and way further and day after day than i ever have on what i call racing coke 1 / 4 normal coke 100g raw suger in 600ml bottle drink every fifteen minutes its awesome i do add sea salt in hot weather .
Yes it works - got through a sub 10 hours result with 50g of sugar & 20g Powerade per bottle
I’ve been using sugar in one bottle and water in the other for about 2 years now! Such a great way of getting fuel in fast and it’s easy. Just as potent as gels etc. Interested to hear your thoughts on Bi Carb soda and beta alanine
The AIS has some very well written, detailed guides on various supplements, including both of those. Defs worth a look: www.ais.gov.au/nutrition/supplements/group_a
Bicarb is in group A
@@nerocoaching This link is a fantastic resource. Thank you!
Great channel !
I’ll give this a go!!
Yes, sugar works just fine. Not sure why you don’t want any electrolytes in there? I add in salt depending on how much I will be sweating. To reduce the sweetness I add citric acid, about 1% of the carbs, makes it taste like a regular sports drink.
Just did this and it was my best ride yet, i underestimated fuelling way too much
Great vid thanks.
Love this vid. I use it with great results
What I use is golden circle cordial (about 100ml per bottle) and 1.5 grams of “fasting salts”. Dirt cheap, tasty and does the job. 😬
Great video and very insightful. I currently use a customised Infinit nutrition mix but keen to try this. What are your thoughts on products like Infinit which allow you to incorporate protein, amino acids and caffeine in to your drink products? To maximise your session and recovery or even for those longer endurance rides does a sugar and electrolyte mix need be supplemented with something offering these nutrients?
Cheers Olly. I'll answer this in a Q&A vid soon
@@nerocoaching have you done this Q & A session ?
czcams.com/video/lPmj5iTZa-E/video.html
Hi Jesse! Great video, verry useful as a beginner cyclist. Just one question. Is this not verry unhealthy? I know science says 60-90 grams carbs per hour (or more), but as someone who grew up in a houshold that never had any soda and, rarely had sugary foods in the house this scares me. I know it maybe sounds silly, im trying to get over this.
That's a billion dollar industry blown up right there
I'm using dextrose mixed up with essential amino acids. Dextrose is the simplest form of sugar so it will be faster for your body to take it as energy and amino acids will repair the muscle tissue while you are braking it during race or exercise. Give it a try.
Dextrose is the most common form of glucose found in nature. Anyway the point is the body can absorb more carbs per hour when glucose and fructose are present than when its just glucose alone
Hello thanks for the video and sharing, I used it and it is very good for me the only thing is SALT. I need to use more in my drink mix. Also, what do you use for SALT? Thanks
In cold Canada there is issue with sugar dissolving in the water when it’s like 3 degrees C in the morning. I’m going to just heat it up and make a simple syrup mix. Basically gels. 😝
I get irritated when I drink sugary water. I do not mean irritated bowels or anything. I mean my mood - I get irritable, even angry for no reason. It happened so many times I no longer believe it is just a coincidence. It does not seem to happen with gels or sugary food, like chocolate waffles. Has anyone else noticed this? Sugary water sounds great on paper and I would love to save the money and fuel my rides just by sugar, but I can't get used to it. I find that the waffles - which are full of unhealthy crap like palm tree oil, artificial aromas, preservatives and stabilizers - make me feel energized and happy.
definitely worth a try
I never bothered with the gels like 80 kcal for nearly 2 quid plus a lot of packing waste compared to a kilogram of sugar in just a bit of paper for 70 pence which will fuel longer than I care to ride!
I watched this and then tried it for many months... worked well ! A doctor, cyclist mate, blabbed on about having to mix in maltodextrin, to help the bonded glucose and fructose separate, and become better used by the body..... so I kinda went away from it again. I also started wondering about my teeth.... perhaps I should revisit after watching your recent video...and reading the comments !
Malto is a LOT less sweet than table sugar. I find sugar nauseating on rides even with citric acid or lemon juice.
Team white sugar here :-) (although not as strong, just 7 grams/100 ml but I ain't no pro and do take some solids with me) I do add a bit of lemon syrup to my sugar to add some flavor and drop the obvious sweetness
That sodium algenate stuff is I believe the gelling agent.
Gunna try it
Astana WT team pretty publicly used sugar water and bananas as training fuel for a very long time. Not sure what they’re using these days but no reason to change!
2 very famous Astana riders told me how much of an influence Ive had on their careers and how big of a following I have in the WT amongst the english speaking riders.
Do you also carry a bottle of straight water to alterate with when drinking? I imagine the sugar water may not quench the feeling of thirst entirely, and straight water is probably good to 'flush' to mouth with every few sips
I should do this, for dental hygiene, but not always!
Also been doing this for years. Sprinkle of salt, fucktonne of sugar and a dash of what ever I'm feeling for flavour.
240g sugar in a 1l bottle x3 has gotten me through some gnarly centuries with 3km elevation.
Pure sugar is way to sweet for me. But maltodextrin is really tasteless to me. I just buy maltodextrin and dextrose in bulk and mix them in my bottles. Nor much more expensive than sugar from the grocery store. If you don't like the taste, add a sip of fruit juice or freeze dried fruit powder.
gold advice
Legend!!!
There are 2 kinds of sugar used in white or brown sugar - Sugar Cane and Sugar Beet.
Sugar Cane is better for your gut and there's only 1 co. that actually uses sugar Cane & thats Tate & Lyle.
So always look at who's the supplier on the back of the product.
Great video! Although I think that if you're not pushing for max performance on a long ride, 'real' food like fruit and whole-grain bread with water is more healthy than pure sugar or a commercial sports drink. I think this liquid-sugar fuelling is only relevant for athletes that really empty their energy reserves regularly and need to recover as quickly as possible.
You’d have to bring a backpack filled with food then
Nope. Sucrose is best. Its in your system quick. Bread is slower even fruit.
@@rebinu Yes, the amount of sandwiches equivalent to 90grams/hour of sugar, for a 5 hour ride, would probably require a backpack :) My point was just that the energy intake needs to be balanced with the energy consumed by the engine. An elite endurance athlete in a long heavy training or race can't keep his energy up with 'normal' food during the ride. But most recreational athletes have an engine that consumes a lot less power. And they don't have the muscle-endurance to sustain that power for many hours. They don't need to take in 90 grams per hour. What is good for the semi-gods, is usually not so good for the mortals. Think before copy.
I haven't tried that Dr Oetker's liquid glucose on a ride yet. Also for people in the USA isn't HFCS 42 pretty close to the ideal ratio at 1:0.62
Love this! Great! Have done this before. Any issues with the sugar not mixing properly with the water. Accumulation in the bottom?
Thanks, answered this in the Q&A vid
Why not just use HFCS 42 (High Fructose Corn Syrup 42% Fructose)? The ratio is generally 50% Glucose : 42% Fructose, with the remaining being other sugars that help begin metabolism and aide in the delivery of Glucose and Fructose to cells.
I'll try this. I have always drank just plain water when cycling. 80g per 600ml sounds preety much.
Cane sugar (sucrose) is the best source of energy.
Sugar from fruit (fructose) is NOT the same. In fact it has the opposite effect.
Stick with regular sugar and you exercise faster longer and with better recovery time.
I've used sugar for easy long trail runs but for going fast I prefer 4:1 ratio.
Hey Jesse, very helpful! What are your thoughts on eating candy during workouts? Things like sour patches etc. I find that at home its the easiest and cheapest option. The macros to me look pretty fine so I'm curious if this is amongst best alternatives or I should switch to something else.
Whenever my sugar runs out and I need a few more fast carbs I usually pick up the next best, easy to chew candy from a gas station or supermarket. As you said it’s mostly sugar anyway and the other ingredients are pretty negligible. I personally wouldn’t go for anything I haven’t tried before and or any sour candy. Highly rate candy on a ride. There are videos somewhere of Peter Sagan stuffing down a whole two hands full of haribos after a race so if it’s good enough for a 3x world champ it’s fine for me!
I've been using sugar water for a few years, good cheap fuel. keeps the Watts up. I also use BETA fuel sometimes which is also good
How do you find them in comparison to each other?
@@nerocoaching I think maybe the BETA fuel might be better but this has me interested to somehow test it now.
My experiences using it on longer harder rides suggests thats where it was better, like where I used it on a 200Km group ride in January it seemed to work well, but I've also done rides 100km to 150km tempo pace on the sugar water and it has been good, keeping the power up well.
I shared this topic in our cycle club whatsapp and it ignited some debate from hard core BETA users but one good point (shared below) was raised which could be the area of difference maybe is this,
Quoted from a felllow Camden Cycle Club member below
"The DE or ‘Dextrose Equivalent’, essentially some Maltodextrin is essentially fibre and isn’t absorbed by the body at all, others are extremely easily absorbed. It has to do with the molecular structure of the sugar itself. Some go in fast, some go in slow and hang around, some pass through you. Put it this way: It explains a lot about why some formulas give you ‘queasy guts’."
"My sister has been helping me with some research ‘nutritionist, works for a health company’, she contacted SIS professionally on my behalf. One thing that isn’t published anywhere that either of us could find is the DE scale of Maltodextrin they use in BetaFuel, i.e. the length of the glucose chain they use. She got an answer from SIS and it turns out it is between 6-8 (that’s extremely short!) the shortest DE chain maltodextrin that I can find anywhere is 18. I have readings and studies if anyone is interested (I’ve gone down a rabbit hole in the past few weeks). Sugar isn’t just sugar, at least not scientifically."
So there is numbers and some differences there, sugar V Maltodetxrin but is it just absorbtion rate? or is there more? I think
Sugar is fine for long rides and training, maybe Gels or BETA might be faster to absorb and therefore better in a race, but has anyone tested that?
Wow, this is all super nerdy isn't it? sorry for the long reply
Sugar doesn't give you that fast carbs right away, it needs to be broken down into glucose and fructose first -- that takes time, plus stomach bacteria feeds on it and produces gas. Maltodextrin is not sweet and that's the beauty of it. You can/should still mix it 2:1 with fructose for short high intensity intervals, otherwise unused fructose will be converted into a fat (given that fructose is a slow carb converted into glucose by liver). Malto and fructose are cheap, if not cheaper than (some fancy) table sugar. I like adding some sea salt and citric acid for a flavor.
How do you get the sugar to dissolve/bend well together with water?
Heat it up on a low heat with some water. It’ll turn into sugar syrup.