WHERE CUSTER WAS SHOT Battle of the Little Big Horn. Custer was hauled up DEAD. CHIEF JOHN GRASS
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Custer was among the first shot as they came down Medicine tail coulee. and its terrible that historians refuse to correct it their heads stuck in the sand.He was hauled up between horses to the area they finally found him on last stand hill. He could have had to be hauled from spot to spot maybe not all at once. The account by Chief John Grass who was there saw the first five shot immediately since they knew quite well how to spot the leaders.
When reading the John Grass account keep in mind bias and also misunderstanding of the words he used such as the name Custer. Many used the name but at the time barely a few if that knew it was Custer and John Grass being a top chief smoked the peace pipe with Custer over in the black hills. Not only MAY he have recognized the voice but also the face. He almost CERTAINLY was one of the "identifiers" of Custer as he was there even before they finished killing them. That is likely why Custer was not mutilated. In other words everything Grass said rings true both in details and by the way he comes across. In the statement he tells the interviewer the adopted son "say nothing of this till I and the others are dead" THAT RULES OUT GLORY HUNTING AND LYING.
Why have historians and Custer groups ignored him. There could be many reasons but bias is a big one most analyses coming from modern whites who will not break with the old cliches and movie images over the decades. Also the way Grass spoke the wording honestly could confuse people since he said "Custer" also I spotted that he interwove the Rosebud battle a few days before MIXING IT IN with the Custer battle. That and other details which match greatly increase the truth of what he said. He also was and described that he was in the correct spot in the camp and at the correct time to be waiting for them to come down the sloped ravine.
Strange that you should post this. I have studied the battle since high school and have been a long time member of the LBHA and the CBMHA. Visited the battlefield three times, one of which was a guided tour from a former superintendent of the battlefield. I have not been too much into Custer recently since I shifted my attention to the Hoover Dam History, and now the history of Spring Mountain Ranch. I am not that familiar with the John Grass account but it makes since. Most agree that Custer made it to the river at MTC as part of a scout to see if he could cross. At the time most of the attention of the village was focused on Reno, and according to David Miller about 5 warriors Sioux and Cheyenne were hiding behind a big log and when Custer and his scouting party stopped at the river the warriors fired, fatally wounding Custer. The troops then retreated with Custer to last stand hill. It has been stated that the chaos of the troopers was due to the fact that their leader was dead or lay dying. However, based upon the arrangement of the dead horses and the spent cartridges, the men did put up a brave fight. Even without Custer you had Tom Custer and Myles Keogh as experience leaders. It is likely that the men ran out of ammo and were overwhelmed. They were only issued 24 rounds for their 1873 SA colt revolvers and 100 rounds for the trapdoor Springfield. This is why the remaining members of E company did their suicide charge down the ravine towards the river.
I had always read that after Reno retreated, or as he put it "charged," out of the valley and on up to Reno Hill the entire weight of the Indian forces was thrust against Custer. Of course a group of warriors stayed to contain Reno. Gall turned Custer's left flank and Crazy Horse the right flank. As you stated, Sitting Bull, way past warrior age and more of a shaman, had taken off with the women and children when the battle broke out. They were headed to the safety of the Big Horn Mountains. An Indian messenger had to go get Sitting Bull and tell him that the battle was over and the Indians had one. It was only then that he and the women and children returned.
My take in the battle is that Custer might have pulled it off if: 1. He had listened to his scouts at the Crow's Nest that morning on how big the village was 2. Had not sent Benteen off to the left to "pitch into whatever he found." This could have been done by a few scouts and Benteen should have been held close by in reserve to support either Reno or Custer. 3. The pack train with the much needed ammo should not have been left so far behind and should have been with Benteen, ready to support either Reno or Custer. 4. He had waited for 24 hours, the Indian scouts would have detected Gibbon's column coming down the Big Horn River and the village would have hastily packed up and headed for the Big Horn Mountains. However many believe that Custer attacked 24 hours before what was planned in the belief that he had been discovered (the lost tack box). 5. Lack of really good defensive terrain for cover.
Custer should have learned from his earlier experience at the Washita, but he did not. At that battle The splitting of forces led to the annihilation of Maj. Elliot's troop.
On June 25, 1876 Custer's Luck ran out! Please forgive me for this long reply.
thanks long replies are the best and the short one liner quips generally only the young trolls do that. For such a complex subject its not a sound byte thing. I am astonished you are so well versed in the issue from way back. I have been there only to the hill long ago but that was all. I then got interested again since various stuff popped up on youtube the custer apollo guy then I blundered on Son of the rising star and I was hooked. A bit of a refreshing change from total geology hikes.
For my part I never would have uploaded a video on it except for the fact reading the indian accounts I like solving mysteries and am good at deciphering writings such as I did when I solved the Olive Oatman mystery as to how she wrote when then led right to the first camp of captivity plus the route to it.
When I read down to Grass account I realized I had something new to bring to the table since he was pretty much censured from history. 1)Custer was shot immediately and the drinking which is politically incorrect in how we want to picture it so he was censured 2) Gall and Crazy horse took their big active part only as it neared the end 3)GRASS was the superstar of the show and the top legends got all the credit. The rest of the stuff has been well analyzed and me not being an expert I wont end up drifting into every possible thing.
The video I intend to redo time permitting and use the actual pictures not the camera pointing at the screen while I try to remember everything. the issue of course Is its agonizing such as to do a coherent 20 minute video with editing can burn up a day or more which is beyond my patience level.
@@jaysilverheals4445 I was surprised that you were interested in Custer, something that I know a little about. I enjoy the geology videos and learn a lot and I especially like it when you correct my misconceptions. I agree, a 20 min. video with annotations takes me all of three days. In understanding the battle one must know more about the Custer psyche. If you know him you can predict his actions and understand what went on. Now I have to go and read about John Grass.
I've been studying about Custer for decades and Custer being shot first does make sense as to why the command fell apart. As to the age old critic that Custer made a mistake in splitting his command is not accurate. It was a common tactic when attacking Indians as they would usually flee in many directions. The only way to attack them was to come at them from different directions to box them in. The error was that Custer did not believe how many Indians there were and you cannot blame him for that either as most Indian tribes were at war with each other and never before or after the battle did different tribes actually get together to fight. You are correct that Custer should have kept Benteen's command closer. As for Reno, he was a coward and even the Indians said that they were taken by surprise when Reno attacked their camp. They said that if he had not stopped his charge that he may have run over them. It is a lie from people who hate Custer that he attacked early to get all the glory. He was told that some Indians had found a box of hard tac that had dropped off one of the wagons. Custer believed that that he would lose his element of surprise and had to attack. Several historians believe that if Custer had waited and not attacked that day that the Indians would have fled and Custer would likely have been court martialed for failing to do his duty.
I believe Sherman and who ever else was responsible for orchestrating the campaign are the ones who should wear the blame.
@@petermcculloch4933 The govenment, not Sheridan or Sherman tasked the War Department with the getting all Indians on to the reservations by Jan 1, 1876. All those not complying were declared to be "hostiles" and were to be forced to go to the reservation. There was a suffient foce in the field to defeat the Indians, but Crook retreated after the battle of the Rosebud and Custer attacked a day earlier than planned.
The Native Americans at the battle all said the same thing, they had no idea who Custer was. They simply wiped out all the Calvary men they could. Most of what happened was guess work by the burial parties after the fact.
The last man to see The General alive was Martin and other confirmed he wasnt wearing his buckin jacket in near 90 degree weather , it was tied to the back of his saddle like most others did , remember reading is fundamental Garryowen
OUTSTANDING
Great you point to Custer being hit near Medicine Tail coulee. I use to feel alone in this theory, but it makes a lot of sense. All initiative is lost after the shooting at the ford. I cannot imagine that being the case if Custer still was unharmed. Also great you provide maps. Top stuff. Thank you. Cheers from Denmark.
He be killed anyway....was he a superhero....no!
@@lordofthewasteland4525 no he wasnt. People either loved or hated him. Cpt. Benteen especially despised him..Reno didnt like him as did other officers. Custer was narcisisstic, self serving at others expense and reckless. It was dangerous to be around him.
@@lordofthewasteland4525 Proverbs 29:23 A man's Pride brings him low but a man of lonely Spirit gains honor. Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction,a haughty spirit before a fall.
Yes you and others are very incorrect.
@@napesica3781 it's not me it's the word of GOD tell him!!!
I'm always amused that some doubt the Indians but put full trust in the White version of the story. The Indians had no reason to lie, but the propaganda of the White man never ceased.
Roger that, but we should consider that it's male/human ego that victors "talk up" the prowess and bravery of the losers. This practice builds up the magnitude of the victors' achievement. Think of a post-game interview with a coach or team captain. They're always complimentary especially as they approach middle and old age. The most reliable accounts occur in the days immediately following the incident after the combatants have time to recover their composure and before they inflate or polish their stories without the chance of cross-contamination by first hearing the accounts of their peers. 2 cents'
Yeah those terrible white men that invented everything and built the modern world.
Ever since the archeological study of the battle sight in the late 1980s corroborated the Indian accounts, , no serious historian casual or professional dismisses it as false.
Hell, ya some Natives did. TODAY WE CALL IT STOLEN VALOR. NATIVES ARE PEOPLE. THEY LIKE GLORY TOO. WHAT BETTER TIME THAN YEARS LATER WHEN SOME PARTICIPANTS ARE DEAD & GONE. IF SOME DIDN'T OUT RIGHT LIE, SOME EMBELLISHED. IF THE THREAT OF PUNISHMENT WAS GONE, WHY NOT. IT IS SOMETHING TO IMPROVE ONE'S STANDING, if only with the grandkids!! Memories fade, subcious recollections replace facts, distance distorts memory.
I believe this version 100%. It's the only way to explain their sudden retreat. And the retreat was not part of the original battle plan. Thank you sir for this version.
Makes perfect sense. Custer liked to lead the troops in. Generally, when attacked, the Indians would make a running defense. This time the Indians stood and fought like the white man. Custer had one shot in the chest and one in the side of the head probably administered by Tom Custer to prevent him from being killed by the Indians as he lay wounded.
correct .. or shot himself . either way i have no doubt that his own pistol ended the day for him
@@DonDon-zm3vz Custer was right handed. People don’t “end” it by using their off hand. The shot to the chest probably killed him and the shot in the left temple was probably administered by the Indians to make sure he was dead
Fascinating video.
I always believed from the books and accounts I've read, that Custer was blown outta his saddle early on and his troopers upon seeing him mortally wounded lost their nerve to go forward and dragged up the hill in a retreat. His arrogance finally caught up with him. But every thing you alluded to and said makes total sense . Thank you!
“Dragged up the hill” , from Medicine Tail Coulee to Last Stand Hill.? 2 miles.?
I suppose it’s possible, though “dragged “ is not the best word to use.
He was wounded early but still fought his way up to final position. Retreating and surround quickly and killed for sure. But not mortally wounded in coulee. No way. No way his troops would have drug him 2 miles up hill if so.
It's sad when the military was used in such a bad way by the politicians. Both sides lost out.
I live close to the battlefield and i have always believed Custer was mortally wounded at the rivers edge, the reason for this is a native account that they saw Soldier Chief(what they called Custer) on the opposite side of the river and a young brave shot and hit him, they also said that soldiers dismounted and dragged him up and formed a skirmish line just as the main body of warriors showed up after the encounter with Reno. I also know that Custer had different Caliber rifle and Pistol rounds. the only place that you find his ammo spent is across the river in a Native firing position. The last shot to Custer was probably from one of his own men or family at the very end. thanks for the video!
That sounds right. Custer had a wound in the temple. Someone didn't want him to fall into indians hands and be tortured alive.
Horrible outcome for all parties. They should have took the gold and left the Indians on the land.
someone reported custer had copious amounts of blood from his chest wound, but none was evident from the temple shot. well ya, he was dead already.
"Custer's Fall - The Native American Side Of The Story" by David Humpheys Miller Copyright 1957 spells it out in great and exciting detail what you say here. Made me go to Medicine Tail Coulee in 1973.
thanks for noting this book, intend to read it.
If, as a police officer witnessing the shooting of Custer, but not knowing at the time the victim's identity, only discovering that detail later, I would write my statement in this fashion: " I then saw a man I now know to be George Armstrong Custer." I don't suppose for a moment, that whoever recorded Chief John Grass' statement would have thought to record it that way. But had he done so, there would be far less argument about the accuracy of the account of the shooting of Custer.
Grass himself changed the story through years to push himself up over Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse.
@@flyingirish31 I am willing to listen but Grass became leader of Sioux nation I doubt strongly back then he would have played politics to "push himself up and over Crazy horse and Sitting bull. thats not something he would do.
@@jaysilverheals4445 that’s precisely why he would do it.
Source?
While recently reading -online - Indian eyewitness accounts (sic) of the Little Big Horn battle ... Custer's wounding at Medicine Tail coulee occurred with attempting to cross the river (the account described Custer (unknown at the time) fell from his horse into the river after being shot -- his wounding immediately stalled the attack across the river into the village as troopers attempted to rescue Custer) ... All actions of his men were defensive after his wounding in the river ... (Thank you for your video - btw)
I think that Co E was deployed around deep ravine to give time for HQ and Co F with Custer, dead, wounded or whatever, to establish a post on the High ground of last stand Hill. Cos L and C were esrliet posted on Finley and Calhoun hills to give similar blocking. They were overrun and Co I in support was surrounded and annihilated quickly. It was a running fight from start to end with futile attempts to stand here and there. Into the jaws of death rode the 600...
Ive walked the battlefield. It gives a new perspective. There was so much comfustication of events by the US Armys version by the Reno and Bentern Officers, and in process not giving credit to the Troopers who gave their lives by following orders..I could see the Troopers recovering the body of their leader, and that shows additional valor itself. All who fought on both sides were valiant. Strange how those who are 150 years detached snd not there disbelieve those who survived and were there who were victors. What would the Victors( Cheyenne and Sioux) have to hain by lying? Shain, after all, They were the victors! I believe grass's account completely.
Too bad nobody will ever completely know. Everybody has their own ideas and theories of whose story is true or not and what’s fact vs hearsay
Great Presentation I learned a lot. Thank You.
Interesting idea, however, my only doubt is why would they take a wounded Custer or his body all the way to Last Stand Hill if Lt. Calhoun had established his skirmish line supported by Capt. Keogh at the south end of battle ridge? It seems to me that in this scenario Custers body would have been found in the area that company I (Capt. Keogh) was found. Most likely included with Captain Keogh and his group of some 29 bodies. I just can't imagine whoever that was left in command "dragging" a seriously wounded Custer or his body along for over a mile on any offensive maneuver towards the North end of the camp that many believe happened. I would think they would have left him with the medical staff and any wounded in a makeshift medical area. Again, in my thinking this would have been more in the Calhoun/Keogh area vs Last Stand Hill. My last observation is that many of the officers were dressed the same. If a company commander was leading the charge across the river and was shot it would have had the same effect on his troopers as if it was Custer. The charge most likely would have stopped, and the troopers would have fallen back, regrouped and rejoined the main force (Custer) leading up towards battle ridge.
Allen Heaps, he would have been carried away. His staff wouldn't have left him. Evacuating wounded on the battlefield was a basic soldier task for the Cavalry as well as the Infantry.
The retrograde to Last Stand Hill, was a Hasty Defense thing. They hoped they could hold off the Indians.
Custer may have still been alive when he got to the hill. Maybe. Don't forget Chief Gaul claimed he shot Custer in the head.
Post battle reports Custer had a chest wound and a head wound.
Custer also had an Indian girl friend. She and her sisters protected his body from vandalism. Except for quills being pushed in his ears to improve his hearing in the afterlife.
Since reading the Battle if Greasy Grass I have been sure that Custer was one of the first killed.
Delighted to see this video.
Great job! T.
it happened so fast.
He wouldn’t have been drug that far. Not because of a lack of desire but a lack of opportunity
It has always been my understanding that Sitting Bull had no participation in the battle as he was still recovering from his Sun Dance.
He was too old to fight. He was a shaman by then and stayed in the village to protect the women and children. Normal proceedure.
Also, it is important to note and visualize that the grass was summer tall grass and up to horses shoulders in most areas of the Custer battle area. Also there is a map drawn by Benteen of where bodies were that he spotted. It looks very little like what is present today, also suggesting MANY bodies were moved or there were attempts to move what was left of them. Another interesting marking by Benteen on his map is a good number of bodies - (may or may not have been a skirmish line? ) - in a ravine which is near the park's entrance gate. And several troopers were actually successful at fleeing the battle only to be tracked down for days by warriors and then dispatched far from the battle site.
Videos like this are alot of fun for me. I have lived in Montana my entire life, but, only now nearing the age of 30 have I become interested is this historic battle. I can't seem to get enough.
Interesting. I have been reading about Custer for about 20 years and this is a first.
Much obliged for this report using the topo map.
His brother was likely beside Custer during the battle. He was extremely brave or just crazy a two time Medal of Honor winner and many said he survived to the last (head bashed in, chest bashed in, pecker cut off, etc.). Sitting Bull was an old man who was expected to stay with the women and children. His fighting days were passed. I believe you though about what he said and would loved to have been able to talk to him.
A Ute named Yellow Nose who had been adopted by the Cheyenne killed the wounded Tom Custer by a blow to the back of his skull with the back of a sabre. Some paintings of the battle show Yellow Nose as one of the prominent fighters as do witness accounts. Another intetesting minutiae is that a party of Arapaho hunters staying with the encampment also took part in the battle.
@@scottloar he was tortured severely prior to death. His head was bashed in among many other tortures. As for George Custer a “future” at the time chief said he that he was shot first coming down medicine tail coulee. Indians were sitting in cover on either side waiting for the Custer column coming down. It was horrible either way. 🍺 thank you for the information.
@@Boomhower89 No, Tom Custer nor any other was "tortured severely prior to death". The battle on the hill and surrounds lasted about twenty minutes, or as long as it takes "a hungry man to eat lunch" as one Sioux (okay, "Lakota" if you will) described, and a battlefield action does not allow the slow pleasures of torture. No, Tom Custer was not "severely tortured", and one warrior recounted seeing tears in his eyes but not the tears from fear. The accounts of what happened have the ring of truth unlike your preposterous claim; men in combat under immediate threat of death don't take five for a cigarette break to toy with the enemy. Tom Custer's body as those other corpses were mutilated after the battle by the women who came up to plunder and revile the dead by mutilation, so thoroughly that US cavalry on the scene two days later could hardly identify bodies. Common mutilation was slashing the inner thighs of the corpse, cutting off the penis and stuffing it in the mouth, gouging out the eyes and beating the skull to jelly, hardly the work of men during combat.
@@scottloarwell I’m going by the state of his body compared to others as documented. After the fighting on a battlefield there will be several that are left unable to continue to fight due to injuries and wounds. Indians specifically the Sioux and Cheyenne among others, were known to torture the survivors until death. Yes the women would come and drive awls through their ears and eyes and cut the legs where they would be unable to ride in the afterlife. If the women came upon an enemy still alive and injured they would go savage on them. Tom Custer was found shot, gutted, face bashed in and other horrific injuries. Now it went both ways. Soldiers at Sandy creek etc. war makes people savage. But I am going from historical records (oral and/or written) which are not always correct not preposterous.
@@Boomhower89 As I wrote, Tom Custer was kneeling, wounded, and Yellow Nose smashed in the back of his skull with the back of a sabre. Yes, yes, yes, torture of captives was common but again, as I wrote, men in combat on a battlefield don't take five to toy with the enemy. And, as I wrote, the corpses were desecrated, many beyond recognition, so to single out Tom Custer's corpse as evidence of "tortured severely" is rank speculation and contrary to all accounts and circumstances of the battle which was quick and intense. The troop didn't have enough time to organize a proper skirmish line and the coulees allowed enfilading fire. It was quick as those under Benteen recalled hearing the rifle fire in the distance. Also note that one trooper had lost control of his horse and madly tore into the village; "he didn't last long" said one of the Sioux men, and not by torture.
Hadn't heard this before, makes more sense. Two moons talks, either first or second hand, about the bravest man going up or at the top of the hill having long dark hair and a mustache running and/or riding back, forth encouraging the troops and fighting hard, clearly it wasn't Custer. So any idea who this would have been? Makes sense out of Two Moons statement as to the obvious absence of Custer being noticeable up there. Did someone say he was drug up between horses?
The man he was referring to is generally acknowledged to be Harrington, commanding C Company in the absence of Tom Custer.
That's maybe the officier (NCO?) with the long,split beard/ sideburns/ mustache.
Good analysis, adds to the mystery. More should have been taken from the Indian accounts. When you go there Custer hill seems a long way from the river. I think Custer was heading down towards the Little Big Horn, saw maybe a couple of thousand warriors crossing and decided their only hope was retreat. The Indians said the fight took as long as a hungry man takes to eat his dinner. Imagine the turmoil in those few minutes. I think Sitting Bill was the general, he had the vision of what was to happen. The warriors would have believed him. I read recently that they have found shell casings in different areas indicating who shot from where. Custer's body wasn't mutilated apparently because he fought bravely, the squaws cleaned his ears with awls to improve his hearing. Just my opinion.
thanks actually as they headed down shooting in the air and yelling to hopefully scare them off there were no thousand indians at that time crossing the river. But they were certainly already working across and next to medicine tail coulee knowing they were coming. as they got down there the ford would have been essentially empty. In the various readings I attached you will see they say in that location of the camp there were virtually no warriors in the camp itself those near the middle were sneaking up the ravines and waited and shot the first few. After he was shot he only came near the river because they were forced there then immediately headed up as the indians flooded in behind and around them. He was rushed along possibly already unconscious bypassing the river by a bit. at that time sitting bull was too old to really fight and they all knew that they had raced into the rosebud and did a long distance attack days earlier. So sitting bull and the others knew well the soldiers were coming and it would be big--but they did not know it would be so soon or they would attack so many of them. They knew they were coming but they pictured much later days possibly weeks not knowing Custer came over from the rosebud so fast. They were attacked totally by surprise that afternoon. at any rate with my making so much stuff public with links--I believe in the next couple of years the myth will fall and fade away and it will acknowledge he was shot right at the start. yes each time I watch that clip of the women goring out his ears I wake up having ear aches. STAR OF THIS BATTLE? IT WAS GRASS.
@@jaysilverheals4445 Thanks for replying, I enjoy reading forward thinking ideas. I studied Custer years ago so have forgotten much. You mention the Rosebud. I don't think Custer was in the Rosebud fight. Crazy Horse attacked Crook which put Crook out of the action. When Custer separated from Terry, he was to come up from the south and give the other units time to get in position. Reno was lucky to escape which kept him out. Custer needed supplies from Benteen who was in no hurry. When you go to battleground point out the Wolf(?) Mts and Crow's Nest, Custer used telescope (what's it called) and couldn't see whereas the scouts were getting ready to die. They knew. A must place to go. I particularly like your work on the Oatman massacre and consider you no 1 researcher. This is how I originally found you.
no hundreds or thousands of warriors were seen--what was seen was the massive encampment. at the time Custer was shot at or near the river most warriors were to the south with Reno.
@@jaysilverheals4445 Quite agree . My husband was a historian , walked the battlefield, and studied the battle for over half a century both from 19th century written and contemporary analysis and with some good old fashioned police work thrown in to help.
In the first case, if we follow police procedures, there were five witnesses .
The five Native Americans who fired on and stopped riders assaulting their village.
(Why their verbal statements were ignored is puzzling).
The charge stopped in the water and we know it was a charge from a statement from Martini, the last courier, who heard Custer’s voice and saw the beginning of the charge down Medicine Tail Coulee.
The warriors state that the leading rider wearing buckskins was shot crossing the Ford and fell causing the riders behind to stop and then retreat.
Custer was wearing buckskins, as were some scouts and other officers, but that description tallies with the dress of Custer, as described by Lt.Godfrey, on the day.
He , my husband, determined that the strong possibility was that George Custer did fall at the ford and that without his control the command fractured into two seperate battalions under Yates and Keogh.
(Both had differing opinions at this stage of the battle).
As an adjunct he postulated that George Custer throughout his career had demonstrated narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies.
There is evidence of Custer being a narcissist as his ,Custer’s life, is extremely well documented.
At no time does he ever mention any training exercises where his subordinates such as Reno or Benteen could be allowed command.
No doubt alienating both officers.
(Today’s officers continually exercise through ‘war games’ and exercises simulating all circumstances.
Each officer trained to fill command positions above their current grade,).
Custer’s ruthlessness /sociopathic tendencies were evident during the Civil War, the hanging of Confederate prisoners and with his own men, the pursuit of the deserters and killing of children and squaws during the Battle of the Washita perfect examples.
He proposed an argument that Yates command, companies C,E and F, trailed the river bank before being forced into a defensive position around deep ravine and eventually ‘Custer’ hill.
Keogh, with companies I and L, topped the ridge line awaiting the arrival of Benteen probably expected at any time as Boston Custer had just rejoined the column.
Company L, under Custer’s brother in law, Lt.Calhoun was positioned to stop hostiles approaching up Medicine Tail Coulee.
Without leadership and initially unable because of separation to provide supporting fire for other companies L then I were over run .
The remaining companies , with possibly a handful of survivors from the fallen companies, soon to follow.
The last stand of eighty odd men on a lonely hilly slope within an hour of commencement of battle.
Where the real mystery lies is with the two adjutants Lt’Cooke and Lt. Hodgson? in their missing note books which would have recorded all of George Custer’s orders and perhaps (surmising) a battle plan.
As my husband pointed out why did a man , Major Marcus Reno, who had led an almost suicidal escape from hostiles , losing close to 50% of his command and whose mental state ,”Come back”,was highly suspect venture back into a danger area to ‘check’ for the body of his ‘friend’ his adjutant.
Surprisingly the Lieutenant still possessed most of his possessions except, naturally, his note book.
The following day, under the excuse that he wanted to determine how Custer’s command had been annihilated, Captain Benteen would perform a similar, he proposed, non-productive search for Lt. Cooke’s note book.*
Wandering all over the battle field and, in his own words, ‘prodding and searching’ ..but for what?
*( One page of that ‘evidence’ of the existence of the book contained in Cooke’s last message)..
Just ponder on what was recorded therein that could possibly, especially Marcus Reno, concern either officer.
There’s the real mystery that still exists regarding the Battle of the Little Big Horn..
Madds
Custer WAS Mutilated!!! They ALL were, I have Heard Soooo Many Accounts that he was Not, and have come Across a Couple Custer and The 7th was in it's Entirety were, Id was Almost Impossible in just less than 2 days Between HOT Temps, and Everything they done to them, Naked, and Strategically Strewn on that hill. Pretty Clever or Sick!!! Sitting Bull comes off saying " I told them, take Nothing, and Don't harm the Soldiers, that Fall in our Camp "....... Assassination, Rob them, Strip them, drag them 2 Another Location, butcher them, YET TELL the World How Brave they Fought!!!!
Henry Weibert was a huge Custer buff! He lived his entire life on a ranch along the Little Bighorn River. Discovering artifacts from all the battles that took place over several days. From these artifacts, he was able to piece together the conclusion that Custer was I indeed shot early in the battle and carried to the top of the hill. Though his troops hated him, they were trained to not leave your commanding officer behind. Custer was the only one that had Brass shells and Henry found, along with hundreds of other artifacts, fired and unfired brass shells in the valley. In his Book, 66 Years In Custer’s Shadow he shares all of his research in detail of his entire life’s work. One of the best books I’ve read on the history of my heritage. Henry was so obsessed with the history of Custer, that his family and friends encouraged him to share his work by writing the book. He also proved that many of the markers were misplaced. My dad met Henry many years ago, and brought me a signed copy of his book. Both passed several years ago and I’ve shared the book with many of my friends. Bill Custer
After visiting the site in 1970 as a kid of just 10 years old (my pre-1970's brain btw), the story of the battle just didn't add up. Clearly based on the grouping of tombstones there had been several skirmish lines where troopers had dismounted and likely remained dismounted in the swirling attack of thousands of native Americans (back then called Indians). The portrayal of last stand hill where troopers shot their horses and used them for cover made little sense. Why would Custer have been the last to fall? Surely the native Americans would have identified him as being in command and would have targeted him early. One single shot to the head? Not likely at all. As for weapons and brass shells Custer was not the only one shooting brass that day. Troopers were armed with breech loading carbines and native Americans had arms of various calibers including centerfire repeating rifles. Skirmish lines have been identified by empty brass and the large number of bursted brass casings of different caliber indicate that the Native Americans were using smaller caliber brass in some of their rifles. Surely the native Americans would have known that the US Calvary was on it's way. Hundreds of scouts would have been placed dozens of miles out from the camp and Custer's movements as well as that of the remainder of the force would have been known. Yes it makes complete sense that Custer was ambushed before reaching the river.
Custer was clearly fighting hard on last stand hill. He did die quickly but up on last stand here.
@@flyingirish31 Do you have proof? Please share if you do!
Interesting as the later reinternment companies sent to rebury the fallen noted their difficultly in locating George and Boston's communal grave and only decided on one paired grave (There were several on both the last stand hill and the outlying battle sites) because brass cartridge cases were mixed in with the body parts and Custer was believed to be using firearms that took brass rather than the more common at the time copper cased ammunition. Custer may have been left in the coulee rather tan being dragged to the hill site and his body actually was collected and interred in the mass grave monument on top of the hill.
George was buried with Tom not Boston.
@@maxdavid84 My bad but they still dead
According to Native accounts, the Natives didn't know what Custer looked like. He was known as 'Long Hair ' and he was unrecognizable after the Battle. His body was spared more damage by the Cheyenne women because Custer is said to have fathered a son by a Cheyenne Woman. Custer was his father and an Old Cheyenne Woman wouldn't allow his body to be desecrated. Custer's offspring are buried in South Dakota.
@@takeitorleaveit.6333 Correction. Custer seized a Cheyenne girl as his camp concubine/captive sex slave, and she got knocked up from his raping her repeatedly. Did he write home to tell sweet Libby about any of this? Did he ever face any consequences for war crimes? Well?
I believe that Custer was hit in the chest or upper left shoulder at ford B (where you indicate) The problem with your assessment is that His Reporters body was found at ford C , and that man went where Custer went. .. Custers goal was to capture women and children as he had done at Washita, and he tried both ford B and Ford C to get at them. I believe Custers men were positioned where they could continue the attack as soon as Benteen Arrived . In the end either Custer shot himself in the left temple, or his brother Tom who fell scarcely 15 feet up hill from him, administered the head shot as all became hopeless.
I am relatively new to these 'you tube' history chats. I have been fascinated by LBH since childhood, and in my humble opinion i have long since come to the conclusion that because of the somewhat chaotic demise of Custer's command after the failed crossing, that he was indeed shot very early on, either killed out right or mortally wounded, and then dragged up to Last Stand Hill, where he may have still have been able to fire his weapon (if still alive), but in the end, died with his command.
Wish I had access to Google Earth when I was studying Custer and the battle. But in the 1970s, there was no internet. Had to find old maps and try to guess troop movements from the book text.
This means that the whitemans side of the story is built on conjecture only and not eye witnesses. :-)
This guys has made some maps that helped me understand the locations of everything and the troop movements. It's very detailed and well researched. czcams.com/play/PLRECSN_PpLgVM1IRO5WEfb_qpcV6grYK7.html
Me too. Always had a hellva time trying to keep everything straight in my mind ! It was hard visualizing the topography much less men, locations, movements!
I must say, Chief John Grass looks a very proud handsome warrior and Chief. And lm saying this as a hetro male. As an ex military man l would have loved to hear this braves stories. May everyone in that terrible war R.I.P
It certainly makes the best sense regarding the "Last Stand" part. So Custer's body was found on Last Stand Hill. He had 2 bullet wounds -- one in the left chest and one in the left temple. The temple wound apparently had little blood around it, while there was a great deal of blood around the chest wound. If he had been shot at Medicine Tail Coulee in the process of starting to ford the river, he would have probably bled out from that one and was almost dead when he got the head wound. If your heart isn't beating it's not pumping blood, and that includes pumping blood out of a gunshot hole. So from Custer's point of view, he comes down Medicine Tail Coulee and sees a place where he can ford the river which is also a perfect place attack the village while Reno is doing the same at the other end -- a classic pincer movement. Except for Custer, it wasn't the other end of the village -- there was a lot more village to go. Nonetheless, the ever aggressive Custer starts toward the village -- and he always leads from the front. Which is where guys always get shot first, too. So Custer gets shot, the soldiers are shocked, and Custer famously didn't share his plans with others, so now they don't know what to do. They stop pressing the attack -- which is what the Indians said happened, that the soldiers were quickly driven back -- and in confusion start looking for a place to set Custer down and figure things out. They want high ground so they proceed to the highest point they can see. And the rest as they say...😉
There are two kinds of bad officers- killing officers and murdering officers. A killing officer gets his men killed because he makes a mistake. A murdering officer gets his men killed because of his ego. Custer appears to be a murdering officer because, as you claim, he didn't share his plan, rode out at the front, and believed himself to be infallible. In the panic, every man who followed and believed in him died.
listening to Chief Dan George in the movie Josie Wales. a lot of truth and sadness there
White Bull claimed that he was the one who killed Custer. Also, the Indians did not know who they were fighting until after the battle, when they were going through the bodies and taking the trooper's clothing and equipment. Also, like you said, accounts given long after the battle are more accurate since just after the battle many of the warrior accounts were guarded due to fear of retribution by the whites.
The fact custer was in the lead and Mitch was shot down there. It’s a good chance he did. Custer would of known crossing the river and getting to woman was only shot at this time. I think when Custer got shot it was chest. He was still alive and brothers grabbed him and ran up the hill. Tom Custer told others to fight on foot so they could get George away and to the surgeon. The Indians just came to fast and to hard
@@TheRounder1980 Agree. Testimony from Miller's book, supposedly taken from battle participants much later, a few Sioux and Cheyenne warriors were concealed on the other side of the river and saw Custer and about five others come down the coulee and halt, as if assessing the situation. This is what they said. That Custer was shot(presumably in the chest) and carried off to Custer Hill. And as you stated, several historians feel that Custer had planned to capture the women and children in order to make the warriors give up. Same thing at the Washita, which to me was Custer's First Stand.
@@H.pylori yep 100% with you yet most think he was still alive at end. To me Custer being shot first explains what happened that day. Curley said he saw few soldiers fall into river. But he was pretty far back. Custer like Crazy Horse was always in the lead. And that works great. Unless the commander goes down like Custer
@@TheRounder1980 wasnt no field hospital with surgeon waiting. They retrieved Custer since not that many indians were sitting there hiding. It would be similar like president was shot. They hauled him up but if it was a total melee they would have left him. Cheif John Grass testimony matches exactly what would be expected.
@@H.pylori hi there anyway I was replying and realized it was you. Not sure about Miller book but will check into it. but my opinion is 1) Custer was shot where I pointed out- 2) he was drunk as a skunk. it is not possible that Grass testimony decades later does not match
Excellent and very informative, completely new to me.
Accurate recitation. Yes, Custer was almost certainly shot as he with a few others approached to scout the riverbank; Custer was always restless when in command and frequently rode away on short scouts and other actions. Yes, Crazy Horse came late to the battle because on hearing the firing he calmly returned to his tent to put on his war paint as many of his young followers impatiently gathered outside on their mounts, some whipping their horses into short sprints to gain a second wind. Yes, Custer was "a nobody" to most as he was not known as a chief. Yes, popular history and even excellent studies neglect John Grass.
No he was not. Custer body was found with the rest of the command group including Cooke, Thomas Custer, Dr. Lord, Voss and Custer's guidon bearer on Last Stand Hill. If he had fallen when you claim, Keogh would have assumed command and this group would have reported to him.
@@maxdavid84 Custer was shot, probably mortally, at the riverbank and, no, even if dead the body would not have been abandonded there. The cluster of corpses surrounding Custer's tells of the major point of command and not as to whether he was wounded beforehand.
@@scottloar No, he was not. If he had been mortally wounded, the command point is now Keogh and that would be the location of all those bodies around Custer. Custer had two wounds, neither of which would have allowed him to remain in command, much less live long enough to make his way to Last Stand Hill. Also Custer was not wearing his buckskin jacket at that point. It was tied behind his saddle.
@@maxdavid84 I say nothing about wearing a buckskin jacket on a late June afternoon with temperature in the 90's. You don't know when or in what sequence Custer was wounded, and your forensics are a leap of faith; the body could have been shot a second time even dead. Some Sioux recounted killing young soldiers as they looked up with blue eyes, there was no glory in killing so but killed they were. Also, several of Custer's inner circle affected buckskins, it was the very symbol of their tacit feeling toward Custer.
@@scottloar You didnt say anything about a buckskin jacket but perhaps you need to read the accounts about the officer that was shot. According to them he was wearing a buckskin jacket. As for what I was saying about the two wounds. Custer had two wounds one just below the heart that bled and another in the left temple which did not. Neither would have allowed Custer to remain in command.
I plan to visit the Battlefield this Fall if the pandemic permits. I have never seen the Indian Memorial. On one of my past visits I befriended a seasonal ranger and we rode horses over the battlefield and went up MTC, Weir Point, and Nye-Cartwright Ridge. Really interesting seeing the ground that they covered from horseback. I also ascended Weir Point on another visit and I can tell you that they could not see anything much 4 miles away and with the dust cloud that was present over the battlefield.
and yet THEY DID ! been there myself , a monocular helped them ,plus that view was a sum total of a GLANCE not a complete DISCRIPTION .
Hope you wore two masks and don't forget to get your booster😅
@@patrickroy3380 Boosters up to date, but only used one N95 mask. Thanks.
@@H.pylori somehow I don't think you're joking
I've often wondered about this. The way that the battle went, something clearly happened to command and control, given the way that Custer's command fragmented was destroyed in detail. A command "decapitation" would explain the circumstances quite well. With Custer down, and perhaps the other officers also wounded or at least confused and momentarily disoriented after Custer being hit, the Indians closing in and a storm of lead and arrows beginning to attrit the troopers, that would explain well how and why Custer's command disintegrated ended so quickly. In the final analysis, even had Benteen attempted to come to Custer's aide and not obeyed Reno's order to remain with him, it likely wouldn't have mattered given how quickly it was all over.
In probability any troopers from Reno and Benteen pressing forward would not even have reached Custer's units, and if they did would not have affected the outcome and been kia.
Benteens message just said to continue on and be quick and join packs. I think in my understanding of Camp Notes. One scout said he delivered a message to Custer to hole up until the command got to him. Reno being drunk and leaving the timber, in less than fifteen minutes, as Sgt White who was wounded and left in the timber... when all the men are left on line with no officers and they are all in a bunch drinking whiskey and I will say drunk... He goes on to praise French as fighting as a man but he had to make it out with a bullet in the hip... I think he came out with Herendeen. as his was the group on top when Weir had advanced and the last of the packs were just coming up. Camp Notes BYU Sgt. White in his journal that was published after his death.
This could also be explained by the fact that Custer was promoted from Captain on Pleasontons staff to Brigadier General, and had zero experience of company tactics.
@@nigelsmith2457 Interesting so that he had no middle level management skills from being promoted so quickly and so prominently.
Everything I ever read about Custer, makes me loath him. Respect to Native Americans🙌
In a way, Custer won his last battle. Within one year of the battle, the nation was galvanized against the Red Man and every Indian involved was either dead or confined to a reservation. The Plains Indians' greatest victory transformed into their greatest defeat. A tragic irony.
The genocide of the the Native American people. Hope your proud about killing women and children to further the manifest destiny. Pathetic.
What a sad response to an asswhipping. Weird on your part too
I recommed seen The son of the morning star movie is related Custer and last stand. 🙏
There were other accounts from other of the Sioux or Cheyenne warriors that when the Custer group hit the end of Medicine Tail Coulee and started toward the river a leader in Buckskin shirt was shot from his horse. That would support Custer being shot early in the battle. I have long believed this to be true. The prejudice in the country at the time did not want to hear that Custer was shot so early. The American people wanted him to be the gallant last man standing, so the native American accounts were not publicized or given any credence.
But the fact is that Custer was not wearing his buckskins that day. It was too hot. And even if he was, a lot of his commanders also wore buckskins.
@@Mr.56Goldtop but only one of them rode at the head of the collumn.
@@rzorbcksfan5747 Maybe. But the Indian accounts still say that person was wearing buckskins.
More likely it was Sturgis who was sent down and killed at the ford. That's what lieutenants are for.
@@MJ-we9vu Maybe. But it's a mute point and not worth arguing over, because we will never know for sure.
Also, one has to careful in comparing the course of the LBH River today, compared to 1876. As you can see it is a shallow meandering stream prone to flooding and changing its course through the valley. When I crossed the river on horseback in August 1970, the river was slightly lower than belly deep on the horse.
Good video, I''ve never felt that Custer was shot that early, unless it were minor enough not to impact his ability to lead and control the remaining defeat of his forces. I think there were several in buckskin tunics so I find it impossible that during the battle any could positively identify him as being hit. Beyond that, I think the positioning of the forces after the reversal at the river leads me to believe Custer remained in command. If he was incapacitated it seems you would have saw an attempt to get him out of there immediately or especially after forces were put to hold such as Calhoun hill. But the main reason is again if he was dragged somewhere then command would have went to Keogh and it seems unlikely that if in command of remaining forces we would find him dead at the center of the company I troops clearly positioned with purpose away from the main force (with Custer).
It was 100 degrees that day so none were wearing any buckskin jackets. They were all in shirt sleeves. Custer wore a large wide brimmed straw colored hat pinned up on the right side so he could shoot easier from the saddle. He also had vey short hair. The Indians and soldiers all knew each other by sight and reputation. This story presented here is the one I've always heard. Custer may have been dead from the bullet thru his chest. He was found on last stand hill with another shot thru the temple at very close range. Judging by all the markers leading down into the ravine from the hill, it appears that the officers were all dead and it was everyman for himself rushing to the river.
Perhaps the fact that the troop left the river and retreated uphill to the “last stand” site lends weight to Custer being wounded early. A loss of command early in the fight could have caused that reaction by the troopers. Something to consider.
@@edwarddesoignie1194 The big problem is that with no survivors and Reno too far away, the only tales are from the Indian Chiefs which may or may not be accurate. Custer did have the shot through the chest and very close range temple verified by the troops arriving the next day so that Chief that claims the river incident may be true. Custer was the only non mutilated body on the hill so inspection would be true. The temple shot is the one I wonder about. Close enough to be suicide or trooper or Indian. It's like the Alamo, without survivors, there's a lot of guesswork by playing the odds.
@@bobwallace9814 Bob the report on Custer’s corpse was doctored to spare Libby.
Apart from the two obvious wounds of the left temple and ‘lower’ left breast gun shot wounds Custer had lost a finger, had both ears pierced and had an arrow shot through his penis.
There was an old article that also stated his thighs had been slashed so it’s really very doubtful as to the actual state of his body after/ also two days in the sun.
I remember reading an early report regarding the breast wound where the pathologist concluded that it would not have been immediately fatal.
As to command on Custer’s demise it would have devolved to the two battalion commanders Captains Yates and Keogh.
This probably explains why the five companies fractured at the ford with Yates initialling trailing the river and Keogh withdrawing his two companies, I and L, back up Medicine Tail Coulee.
This separation ultimately assisted the Native Americans in their annihilation of Custer’s command.
Anniversary of the battle in four days on June 25th..146 years !! 👵🇦🇺🇺🇸
Believe the natives.
Nobody that was shot warranted the entire column stopping to pick them up, except the leader. Why would they stop...under fire... to pick up a soldier?
Why were other soldiers not retrieved?
Custer was in front and was one of, if not THE first.
Based on one person’s account that did not even know Custer by sight, I find your narrative somewhat sketchy. Although this is probable. I would need more actual historical sources to believe this account. Unfortunately, we will never have them.
I read a book several years ago that talked about Little Big Horn. The author had talked to several of the Native American survivors from both sides of the battle. The Sioux and Cheyenne survivors all said that Custer was shot at or near the ford. They all said that Custer's men seemed to panic and were very confused after Custer was shot. They also spoke of how many of the soldiers fired their rifles in the air instead of taking carefully aimed shots. I also believe that the main battle was over much quicker than many believe. One old chief said that the battle lasted the amount of time it took the sun to travel the distance of one lodge pole, which was estimated to have been around 30 minutes.
I believe that the book you read may have been the one written by David Humphreys Miller titled; "Custer's Fall, the Indian Side of the Story". It was first published in 1957 and is based on over 20 years of his research including his interviews in the 1930's with over 70 Native Americans who had fought in the battle. I first read the book back in the 1960's. I lost my original copy of it but was able after a long search to find a replacement copy. I don't know if it is still available. Regardless of what an individuals' thoughts or beliefs are regarding the Little Big Horn and what happened that day it would be good for them to read it if they haven't already done so. My personal belief is that what is written in this book is accurate and, more likely than not, is what and how it happened. The time between the battle, 1876, and the interviews with the surviving Native Americans in the 1930's is about 55 to 60 years. I am old enough to remember back that number of years to the mid 1960's and my time in the military and Vietnam. Memories can get distorted over time, but for the most part they are accurate, and I would place a lot of credence on the Native American memories.
@@jlamp45 I’m
Thanks
I believe he was wounded early. But he made it up to last stand hill.
@@flyingirish31 Custer had two wounds. One to the chest, near his heart and one to the left temple. Both would have been fatal. Perhaps he was still alive when carried to Last Stand Hill but he was finished off soon after. Perhaps even by his own brother so that he would not be taken alive. Only the Native American accounts can be believed. They had no reason to lie.
He had it coming, for what he did during the Civil War and to the Native American
This is one of the most informative and intelligent explanations of the LBH and Custer's fall I have ever come across , one that I have never been aware of before. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us all. I hit the Like Button and I have subscribed as well. Looking forward to viewing more of your videos. I wish you good fortune.
No he was not. Custer's body was with the command group on Last Stand Hill. If he had been killed when you say, command would have fallen to Keogh and the command group would have fallen with Keogh near Calhoun Hill.
The forensic evidence shown from the post fire investigation, strongly suggests a broad skirmish box... suggesting that, if there were captured women and children, they most likely were held in Deep Ravine or even were there and found and captured and a skirmish box was formed around Custer's "prize". (Custer seems to have been attempting another Washita) There was a reported - half hour - of calm before everything fell apart and the battle lasted only "as long as it takes a hungry man to eat his dinner".
Custer never got across the river to capture anyone. He was shot and his men retreated as the warriors from the village surged up the sides of Deep Coulee and surrounded them. Then, when everyone was dead or dying on the top of the hill, 28 men tried to escape down Deep Coulee and got caught in the killzone there. Only one man managed to get out of the ravine and was killed on the very edge of it. All the cartridge cases found around that area were found on the top edges of the ravine and were fired by the warriors, who were shooting down into the men caught in the killzone. Thier bodies are still there, buried deep under the fill dumped there during the road building.
I have heard this theory before but it doesn't add up in my mind. If Custer was dead, who lead his companies to Ford D, his second in command? I don't think so. To me Custer's loss early in the battle would have been shocking to the command and they would have immediately looked to consolidate and regroup with Keogh and Calhoun forces before taking any action. Also, Custer's early death in the battle probably would have saved some of his 211 men. That didn't happen.
Yep, more than likely Custer was shot & stopped early in this melee. I'm no veteran but, a life time of reading tells even me that if you control leadership , you control the situation. No, the Natives didn't rightly know it was Custer( at the ford). They just knew this one guy appeared to be leading a small detachment. Kill him, that detachment falters. As Custer's whole command was fractured over miles of terrain, there were so many Natives, it iwas simply every man for himself when the battle was initially joined. There were obvious attempts at " command & control" but, given the circumstances. it was impossible maintain cohesion( except for Reno Hill). The natives simply had to isolate, ride down, annihilated each individual grouping of scattered cavalry. If not killed outright where they were, undoubtedly some troopers crawled off, were carried or drug by fellow soldiers to other locations. The ending took, by most accounts, 20-30 minutes. No one has time for anything in that decimation. Just my thoughts.
I don't believe Sitting Bull was involved In any fighting and for sure wasn't on last stand hill
The Sioux was a cruel..savage enemy
very interesting.
Wooden leg wrote about this. His book is in the visitor center. Thanks from.St. Paul Minnesota.
Great video. I would tend to believe this version of events than any of the others.
We will never know the true events of the day but the certainity of it is how tragic it was for both sides.
I don't remember the source, (it was an Indian, though), that said Crazy Horse was late because he was having some kind of trouble with his horse and was disappointed that 'it was over so quick' and he barely made it to LSH. As much as I enjoyed the story of a protracted, valiant last stand, I don't think that was the case. Valiant, maybe, but not protracted. Maybe Custer should have just let those folks be.
None of the Indians mentioned where Custer was shot. Many of the Indians said they remember seeing Custer.
Thanks for sharing
Custer wasn't shot at the river it was his brother Tom who fell there and then taken to last stand hill..
Why would they carry a dead body, no matter who it was, over two miles during a running firefight? Everyone found on Last Stand Hill was alive when they got there.
@@MJ-we9vu simple it was Tom Custer. Anybody else chances are they would have stayed where they fell..
@@josephdugan4955 I read in one source that speculated that it was W. W. Cooke.
I had heard that Custer had his hair cut before the campaign and it was difficult to find him after the battle....
Yes Custer did have his hair cut short before he left
It's 'dragged', not 'drug'.
The Cheyenne camp was located nearest Deep Ravine. Also at Medicine Tail Coulee, the river crossing was not a viable crossing at the time. Warriors reported to Crazy Horse while at the Reno fight, that women and children 'had been captured' on the opposite end of valley gathering and he turned around and headed to engage Custer's forces.
I do not think Custer rode near the Little Big Horn to the Minneconjou Ford, he stayed back with the other 3 companies. White Cow Bull claim is not supported by other wittiness, nor the fact the main command is up away from that small action. Curley's account much maligned holds up over the research down these last 100+ years, he has Custer very much alive after the failed crossing attempt. I have firm believe he was shot just after the first skirmish line company was overrun and was shot at long range.
Interesting. Not sure I buy it, but interesting.
Just watched an interesting bit by a battlefield forensic noting the battle at last stand hill had very little evidence of any tactical or strategic resistance or any skirmish line whatsoever. Very few spent cartridges massed in a specific area or massed together suggesting it was panicked fighting with very little organization. I think that gives your analysis a big boost as to being more true and realistic a scenario.
Indians took the reloads dude. And yes, indians could reload bullets. They would take the powder from wrong caliber bullets to match their rifle. That bullet trail bull shit shows nothing.
@@ripvanwinkle1819 nope...there was only the skirmish line on Calhoun Hill..the rest was mayhem and chaos as Custers 5 cos were overwhelmed. The Trapdoor carbines were slow to reload where shell cases might have gotten stuck in the breach. Very few pistol rounds were fired..and the sa is slow to reload. Further the indians didnt diferentiate very well between calibers..if it fit in the breech it got fired..notably the 50/70 and 45/70 Trapdoor Springfields.
The site was picked over for 100 years after the battle. Bullet casing etc are not a reliable measure of what happened
About time someone is telling the truth about where custer was shot. Indians always knew but you can;t have a american hero like custer's story being told by a indian even though the Indians were still alive and the custer myth was born out of non indian conjecture.
@Steven Colombo You don't know much about history do you
@Steven Colombo What if i told you the left wing and the right wing belong to the same bird smarty pants. I am proud I know more then you do :-)
@Steven Colombo which would be 10 times smarter then you even if I was.
@Steven Colombo May I ask what did a number on you? Looks like a few numbers were done to you. I know what. You must be a trump follower. they are all gullible people,lol. Send him some money why don;t you
@Steven Colombo How did you know i was a chief..... you see me with a war bonnet on
Disagree. IMHO, Custer was shot at Ford D then hauled up to last stand hill. With Custer incapacitated at Ford D, the pursuit of the Indian non combatants ended, followed by the retreat to LSH. No way a Custer led troop would have awaited Benteen's arrival as Richard Fox seems to suggest.
Not even drug. He likely road up and fought briefly before being killed with shot to head. It was too far to drag him. Even for Tom. Grass is only account that claims Custer died early. And even then it isn’t that cut and dry with the way he told the story. Then changed it.
I firmly believe Custer was wounded gravely but was able to stay mounted until up on hill and fought briefly until shot again mortally. The Spencer’s cartridges tell that story well. And with the way arms were littered all over battlefield and fight was quick, I don’t believe it was other trooper with the spencer.
Weren’t both wounds found on Custer.One on his left breast and another on his temple said to have been fatal. Wherever or however he received both these gunshots it’s unlikely he was in any state to still be giving orders.
Just get over it ! The people was better equipped than the 7th and they bit more off than they chew and died running scared for their lives !
Dont forget... Custer wrote in his book My Life on the Plains of his tactics used and also of one educated rascal that was educated out east and returned to take up the hatchet or such... anyone that thinks to explain how they fight, the fights he had and his thinking in those fights, goes on to pursue the ones that were in those fights and thinks they would not change the play book.. In my mind the Warriors found a copy of Sun Tzu and the art of war as everything in there is how it was faught, such as those that have the most to lose will fight to win, those that know the terrain, those that are rested, those that are better generaled. as one officer once said, the best sign of a great General is one that knows when to retreat and does.
Well done... Thanks...
Well done, Jay.
I visited LBH battlefield in April 1993. Custer orders Reno to attack down Valley with only 3 Cos. An attack at Medicine tail coulee is nearest point of support. He needs Benteen plus pack train ammo to successfully attack. Ordered same to come on quick. To deploy miles downriver on battle ridge away from support is insane! Could NEVER have been a planned move. I think Custer was shot and wounded near ford B. Command & Control disintegrated. Indians forced the command up onto the high ridge killing ground, away from supporting units. An attempt by HQ group to break away to give medical aid to Custer was made, last stand Hill position. Tactical breakdown and panic occurred, no overall commander to give orders. A buffalo chase massacre ensued. Bodies scattered in small clumps over a distance of 2 miles. Only 40 men died on last stand hill out of 210. My personal view. Nobody really knows, not even Professor Richard Allan Fox.
Not trying to second guess . But don't understand how so many mistakes were made . I would have had that whole area scouted. No way in hell that l would have went forward without proper recon.
Time to drop the 'bias' crap. Make your point with some evidence and don't fall back on 'bias' if someone disagrees with you because it makes you seem lazy and unprepared.
I've heard this theory too, but as many of the Indians report, nobody. knew who Custer was at the time. Add this to the several warriors who claimed to have killed Custer. So how any could say it was Custer killed at the river if in my opinion unreliable.
they knew it was Custer or explain the awls in the ears by the women and sitting him up so he could overlook what he had done.
When I was at the site at the 70's it was being dug up by archaeologists who told us that it looked like the native accounts were the only accurate ones.
The seventies and that is when Utley and others started goofing it all up. Everyone was not telling the truth or just portions of it. Almost all native stories were, I was there but getting my ponies, or I was there but just leaving or I was there and Sitting Bull would not let me leave. There is one that said he followed Custer from the Far West and even that eveing to the Crows Nest when it was so dark and dusty that men had to get off the trail and listen to find the command again but this native found the hardtack and was talking to other Indians there but was going to go visit a friend so did not send word to the village.. now what friends outside of the Sitting Bull camp did a Sioux have in Crow country... asking for a friend.
All 'war stories' get better as the years go by.
I’ve heard it said before an Indian named Lame White Man or maybe it was Blood on his Knife said when asked “ How long did the battle last he said “ No longer than it takes a hungry man to eat his dinner “
Again my great great uncle was Myles Keogh , a story came down in my family , from my great grandmother and I heard it from my grandmother who was in her eighties by the 1970s that Myles had an Indian friend he used to talk to called Johnny Irish I wonder could it have been this john grass? I don't know ,it always struck me as very improbable that there was an Indian called Johnny Irish and I never heard of this Indian described as a chief and this is the first time I've ever heard of John grass,maybe just maybe this is some sort of a distorted memory in my family. T
Custer was shot twice. Once in the temple and once on the lower left, from what I understand. Do we know which shot followed which?
I read the account of "White Cow Bull", named for killing a domestic Bull with one arrow. He clearly indicates the man he shot with his "yellowboy" rifle was an officer. The Indian accounts indicated that the officer dropped into the river, was pulled up onto a horse and the band retreated. The loss of discipline is consistent with Custer being out action very eary.
How do you know that? even Indian accounts say he among the last killed
It’s true. The accounts even talk about his spencer barking with the last reports. He was wounded for sure at ford but he made it 2 miles up LSH as well.
Grass always felt snubbed by Crazy Horse and Sitting bull till he died. He came up with sorry later in life about how he directed attack that killed Custer in Medicine Cooley.
If Gen Crook with over 1,100 men in in a smart way with plenty of scouts , Crook had the best opportunity to travel north East to meet up with Custer then together could had enough men and ammo to fight off the main encampment of over 5-6 thousand Indians...But we know what Gen Crook did turned around and went fishing brown fish instead of pushing the fight. Gen Crook had an obligation to reach Cuter or Terry and give them very important Indian accounts during Crooks battle with Crazy Horse.
Ya your right had Crook continued his up north he might just have meet up with Custer and who knows what the outcome might have been
Big Custer fan since since my mom told me the story after having chest pains watching “They Died With Their Boots On” back in 1962, eye was around 8 yrs old. At the hospital she told me how Custer was surrounded and out numbered and the fantasy stuck with me.
From high school to today bought over 25 books on the subject eye remember taking a few buses and a couple trains to go see a Custer movie playing at only one theatre in a rough area of Boston. Weird Custer myths have cross my life over the years , coincidences maybe maybe not , eye met my future wife at 18 her last name is Pizzi on page 376 of Evan Connell’s “Son Of The Morning Star” Chief Gall’s name translated to English is “Pizi” remarkable. Plus my wife’s birthday is Dec 5th which eye connected a few years after 1975. My Great Grand Mother on Dads side her name was Victoria and named my first born Victoria after her , Custer horse at battle , Vic. One of my first dogs up in Alaska was a Wolf Hound my buddy gave me as a pup , Custer had a few. My mom remarried an Alaskan Native from Kenai Peninsula Roger but his nic name is “Autie” ! Plus we live outside Boston most of my life. My brother mike , born on June 24th , has a great welding and pipe business past 38 yrs then you see Custer’s Dad was a great Blacksmith. Eye feel the connection so eye might travel to Battlefield this June , 2022 been to West Point smoked a cigar at Custer’s grave and eye did see the last note written by Cooke to Trumpeter Martin at Custer museum inside at W.P. The owner donated it for exhibition. Some birthdays eye use to put my wife’s name and Custer’s name on the cake , lol Believe Custer’s mother maiden name is KIRKpatrick. So for what it’s worth that’s my story.
I always believed Custer was shot by the river and hauled between to troopers on horseback to last stand hill. I don’t believe he was dead and that One of his men shot him in the head when they knew they would not survive.
Is it possible/allowed to walk the area of Medicine Tail Coulee? I plan to visit next year (2023) and would like to be feet wet in the LBH.
All of Custers wounds were mortal , if he was shot at the river , Keogh would've assumed command and would've been next in command and with ww cooke . Do you people even have a clue ? GARRYOWEN
The chest wound may not have been mortal. It could have been higher on chest and not killed him.
the trajectory of the bullet was from above I believe the doctor even said that Like a Warrior on a horse which couldn't have happened the river unless there was a grassy knoll I haven't heard about😅
Great presentation! The Native attacks from both sides of Medicine Tail Coulee make sense but there is scant mention of them in other research. I have often wondered why after facing heavy attack at the river, Custer would retreat in a direction away from possible support from Benteen sector. The answer has to be that the situation in Medicine Tail Coulee was too hot for him to retrace his steps. Therefore, the retrograde action to Last Stand Hill and away from Benteen-Reno was necessitated out of extreme duress as his route of ingress was closed.
I to believe Custer was shot earlier in the battle. It only makes sense to read the account of the battle from the native people. If Custer is shot in the chest, it make total sense he is dragged up to last stand hill, then later shot in the head.
Doesn’t make sense at all. Actually.
No one was going to drag a body 3/4 of a mile under that blistering, lopsided attack
When you are outnumbered 5 or 6 to one by the indians creeping up on you, it doesnt take much to cause you to panic and run for your life. After the fight the surviving officers of the Defensive Fight according to records each consumed gallons of whiskey..Reno bought some 9.gallons and he was not the largest purchaser. They truly had the fear of god instilled in them.
So it wouldnt have to be Custer being wounded early on that caused the breakdown. . One indian acvount said the Cavalry never was at the river. it is that he arrived later and never saw them there. Another indian.account tells of a trooper on horse back running at full gallop.being chased by 2 indians. The indian acvount says that they were just about to give up the chase when the trooper committed suicide. A troopers body was found several miles away from the battle.
It is possible Custer was wounded by the river. But unlikely..The disposition of Calhoun and his skirmish line Keogh waiting in reserve behind Calhoun hill and Custer 2 companies further away on Last Stand Hill.. Custer may have even ventured north of Last Stand Hill returned to Last Stand and was waiting for Benteen to come up wt the Pack Train..That would have bolstered Custers Battalion by 3 companies.
The archaeological digs out at the battle site found few revolver bullets and not as many as one would thnk carbine rounds. They were able to trace one indians route on the battle field by his forensically tested spent shell casings..
Also consider that apx 30% to 40% of the 7th cavalry were green ill trained recruits. Many were recent immigrants from Europe. They were not the sleek well oiled cavalry unit that history portrays them to be.
The more you examine the trajectory of events the more unlikely it is that Custer personally went down Medicine Coulee to the river. When Custer came upon the dead indians teppee he dispatched Capt Benteens co H and another company to look for indians to the South. Further up when he came to the LBH river where he dispatched Major Reno wt 3 companis to cross the river and attack the villiage from the South end..presumably to drive women and children to the North. Custer wt 5 companies went north.. He climbed to the top of a bluff where he could see Reno at the very least being in distress? Coming down from the bluff he dismissed the Crow scouts inclufing Curly..who departed post haste. He also sent company H bugler Martini who had been assigned as a messenger that day to have Benteen come up quick..Custer proceeded N along the ridge line sending 2 companies down Medicince Coulee to see if that was a good point to cut off the northward exodus of the women and children..When that recon.aborted Custer left Calhoun to form a defensive skirmish line wt Keogh wt 2 companies in reserve while he proceeded further North wt 2 companiex to find the northern edge of the villiage..Custer may have proceeded even.farther North..returning to Last Stand Hill to await Benteen with his 2 companies, company guarding the pack train and civilian mule skinners to reinforce him. Custer was on Last Stand Hill for at least a few minutes before the indians returning from routing Reno could start to rub him out.
Even though the book I read as a boy shows Custer taking the last bullet on the top of the hill, I now believe (David Humphreys Miller's version in - Custer's Fall: The Indian Side of the Story) that he was shot crossing the river. What other reason would there be for his men to stop the attack and turn back. pp. 128 + in the paperback edition, 1957.
I have also read Indian versions saying Custer was shot at the river not a last stand hill.
Exactly ;)
The reason they turned back was it was too muddy for the cavalry horses to ford the river there.
@@maxdavid84 No way! Some soldiers did cross and rode into the village (Sturgis) and the natives crossed the same ford in numbers by horses ;)
@@ivannio5836 Totally false. No soldiers made it into the village. This false narrative comes from the survivors misinterpreting the tracks of captured cavalry horses being taken into the village. No native accounts have any soldiers making it into the village.
Chief Sorrel Horse 🐴 a Choctaw Indian, adopted a Great Grandfather of mine, Henry Andrew Jackson Sorrel, a French infant who married into the family.
Chief John Grass said he could hear Custer speaking and recognized his voice. So most likely Grass testimony about speaking to Custer before the expedition and saying if Custer came in peace he would be safe, but a man with that many troops was not peaceful. Anyways there are some links with Grass full explanations and he spoke well and was educated enough to see that his version is good. IT was not Medicine Tail Coulee but near Reno's stand in the bottoms, Custer at the bluffs was looking for a way down. the place where Reno got to in the valley was only eight hundred yards from where he made the river to Reno Hill Better said Benteen's Hill as Reno only occupied an area big enough to get drunk and stay drunk at. Reno Coulee... anyways when you are at the LBH you can see that from where Custer over looked the bluffs there is a dry washout that leads towards Reno's timber positon. So CUster goes down the coulee as Curly described just wide enough to hold column of fours... anyways to make a short story long. Most if they look at that approach still puts custer a quarter of a mile from the river and the village while still being in the valley. So often those silly people that think the twenty eight men are in Deep Coulee or Deep Ravine when those are named to reflect where they think the bodies were and none of the descriptions meet up. Knipe uses Beach, ridge, the men were funneled and could not climb out it when they got in. NO place in Deep Ravine or Deep Coulee match that. so then the researchers start digging in a place that had remained the same as the pictures for the hundred plus years. They want it to be Deep Ravine or Deep Coulee so they make it so. They want all the natives to be camped west of the River when lone tipi and every other camp before that was made on the bluffs. So either an ambush and all on the west side or some people need to be removed from placing a village in the bottoms, that were grazed by buffalo, ten thousand ponies, defication from dogs horses and the mass quanities of people and grass said close to ten thousand. Put my tipi on the bluff just for fresh air. minus the salamanders, snakes, greasy grass that stuck to you in the morning dew, stampeding ponies, bison or such.. although the buffalo were corralled twenty miles north so they could be hunted by the warriors... see Mitch Bouyer telling Knipe and Godfrey how they burned two sides and made a huge valley in the center to funnel the animals and to hunt away from the village. anyways food a plenty , the sun dance done, the suicide boys dance, and the moon of June that is big medicine. so they were in the Crow territory and no knowledge of Custers approach. Grass says they knew he was coming and they prepared for him. How could they not. Grass could read, they put it in the papers, the camp on the river for supplies with the Far West was all in the papers and so you get a big lie,. Grass has a whole web site that was not mentioned that covers this and he seem legite. But no Medicine tail coulee is not Custers approach, anyways... think on the fact Reno was supposed to be possibly shot at from the bluffs, the only place is seven hundred yards from the crossing to the bluffs otherwise where they say Reno was at is a mile shot and no threat. They shot the scouts with Reno first, Reynolds, Isaiah, Bloody Knife, etc... so it would be the cutting of the head of the snake and let the tail wither. Then I can agree that Custer and the men up front would be the target. But then again as much as Benteen and Crazy Horse were shot at and not hit... sometimes luck is Custer Luck... for a while.
The 25 women that were shot may never be discussed, but probably happened across from the Greasy Grass River from Medicine Tail Coulee. Just commenting.
3 years later and no revision? Guess you're holding on tight to this fable
am 68 and pretty much in final years but mark my words on this day that they will rewrite history. Chief John Grass will come MUCH more to the fore and be brought back to his correct location in history as it pertains to what he witnessed and as it pertains to where Custer was shot
GRASS WITNESSED AND REQUESTED THAT CUSTER NOT BE MUTILATED.
have them tell that to the historians after I am dead. --they will have no choice but to research it and they will find what I did.
@@jaysilverheals4445 Was actually 2 cheyenne woman who told a lakota not to mutilate him as he was family to them being he made a kid from a cheyenne woman. The lakota only took a tip of a finger. They did stick a sewing awl into his ears so he would hear better in the next world after promising not to ever make war on the cheyenne again. I do know he suffered some mutilation though but was kept out of history so his wife Libby would'nt know. I don't care to say what happened to him though out of respect for his family members. You dig hard enough into history and you will find out what I am talking about :-)
Why weren't any photographs taken of Custer's body and the rest of the battlefield at the time the shaughter of horses and men were discovered? There are plenty of ghastly photos of the Civil War dead. Why not at the Little Big Horn?
@@russellhoule6390 more related mis information , the only ones who might have possible recognized GAC in all the smoke and dust were the southern Cheyenne who had contact with him , it wasn't until months later they found out who they were fighting and they actually thought it was Crook again , Garryowen
Unfortunately a great percentage of our history has to often only been told from one side making First Nations people to be a villain when in fact our encroachment and constantly pushing them created it’s own issues hopefully we have recognized our short comings from history and we improve
that I agree with and the fact that many of the same Sioux were from the Minnesota Uprising and had to go visit and live with their cousins. that whole thing if they are hungry let them go eat grass. the fact that custer went to washington to testify against Grants administration for stealing so much ... as Grants brother said, he only regretted he was not able to steal more. Custer said put the annuities under the military and it would not be stolen... etc. But even now we look at the policy. instead of giving what was owed we as a nation hire people at great prices to distributed a tribute of what was owed and then fix nothing
Sorry for being English and not knowing so muchabout this but who carried the body of Custer in your video to the last stand, was it Native Americans or the US Troopers?
If Custer were shot at the ford as the video suggests, he would logically have been recovered and moved by US troopers, most likely of the Regimental HQ detachment under his brother Capt Tom Custer who was serving that day as aide de camp. Cheerio!
I have been to Little Big Horn several times and read a number of books. Kulhman's in particular does not agree with some of your comments. In that book it suggests that someone, identity unknown at the time, wearing a buckskin jacket was shot crossing the river. It is said that Custer had had a son with an Indian women while they marched from the Ouchita. His son was said to have been in the camp. What happened to him?
Many loyal Custer officers dressed similarly. Hard for Native Americans to differentiate - Custer had hair cut short. Hard to accept. What then found with brother and loyal Custer officers.
Custer had specific clothes on that was described but overall I will add this Col Miles told Captain Clifford at the Mouth of the Powder in August to do something because he appeared as a private after the campaign or looked like one.