Gripping Technique VS Finger Strength (VS Beastmaker Slopers)
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Geeking out on Gripping Technique while trying to hang the hardest Beastmaker 2000 Slopers with as little Finger Strength as possible.
Gripping Technique VS Finger Strength (VS Beastmaker Slopers) by Mani the Monkey
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The whole point of hangboarding is to increase finger strength. The whole point of those slopers is to train open hand. If you find that the half crimp is more effective for those holds then your half crimp is stronger than your open hand. This misses the entire point of training on those slopers, to improve open hand grip.
It's probably good to practice both, it's useful to learn the most efficient way to use a certain hold but also important to use open hand when training for finger strength.
MythAvatar high level climbing all slopers are basically just crimps
@@BobMarley-vl5gl nah
I can hang more comfortably on the middle edge 3 fingers open than with 4 fingers, hence we could assume that my 3 fingers open is stronger than anything with 4 fingers.
Despite that, I have no chance on those slopers 3 fingers open. Even when I used only 3 fingers to try the hard mode without corners, I had to bend them half crimp style to stand a chance. These slopers, despite being slopers, seem to prefer my more crimped finger position (because of the smooth surface), which is the point of the video. And I've seen it on other people too!
Edit: Maybe I should emphasise that FOR ME, they prefer a more crimped finger position (because only this finger position allows me to increase the pressure in my finger tips so much that I don't slip off, if there's people out there who are better at doing this in an open grip fashion, they will go with the open grip, but I think they do the same moving force to finger tips thing as otherwise there's just not enough friction to hold these. Or I just have a slippery Beastmaker :)
@@ManitheMonkey my beastmaster is slick as well. :)
Super subtle and very true. One of the strong British boulderers (Fehally? Mason…?) made a similar point about how front-three crimps transfer to crimping but back-three crimping transfers to slopers.
Clearly, the secret to crushing slopers is blue crocs.
Schönes Video, vielen Dank für die super Tipps !
@ManiTheMonkey, Wow, I have forgotten so much stuff! Watching your videos is bringing back so much stuff I had pushed back in my head after quitting years ago, thinking I wouldn’t be able to climb again.
All this knowledge of technique and I have to wait until I get my strength back. Dammit...
Super helpful vid. Gunna go try these tips out to see if they work.
Can't wait to implement this new technique :)
1:56 got a laugh out of me
Great tips, thanks!
right
thats what we all actually came for ;-p
Fuck, this was a good video! I don’t think you could have demonstrated this concept better and clearer. From a new climber’s perspective, this was perfect. Subscribed.
I dont even have a hangboard but this is nice
Same
Yeah, i think the point of MythAvatar is valid. It would be interesting to see Emil Abrahamson take on this. The guy is a beast on slopers and by looking at his videos where he is campusing on these beastmaker slopers, you can see he doesn't use half crimp at all. But he is super tall and has bigger hands, so that may be a huge factor
Howdy! On my way to Font right now for some sloper action, when I get back I'll make a video about it :-)
It's so cool that somehow every climbing youtuber watches the videos of the other climbing youtubers:)
Woah epic he replied :O
bigger hands arent always better. some slopers are even worse with longer fingers because you have to crimp your fingers more to hit the right spot where it has the best grip.
For me it seems like as if friction is the deciding factor - whatever grip type allows you to concentrate the holding force as much as possible in a small area (probably finger tips) to create the greatest friction (for some it's open grip, for some it's a more crimpy style) will yield success.
OR, taller people are heavier, hence have more holding force, hence are able to get away with bigger holding surfaces, hence get away with more open holding? Would be interesting to see a strong kid (epic finger strength to body weight ratio, but very little body weight) try these slopers.
All these things are of course only meaningful in a without thumbs without corners hard mode setting, because otherwise you can always increase friction by other means than pure holding force.
god i love these videos
Amazing resources
Oml I was just thinking that the closeups look like petting a cat, and then a few seconds later, 02:15 pops up 😂
The tip to use the inner edge by pinching your fingers and essentially trying to 'crush' your hands/fingers towards each other to increase friction is critical, I didn't even think about that but the times I am able to hang off of these types of slopers I am doing that. Thanks for this video, now that I am aware of that tip I think I will be much more consistent in my ability to hang off of some of these types of slopers.
1:56 😂😂 Im dying
I actually have the best grip on the 45° Slopers without corners and thumbs when my hands are just a little bit sweaty. If they are fully covered in chalk, I rarely manage to hang that way for a couple of seconds but with half sweaty half chalked fingers it works quite well. I usually do 8 hangs of 8 seconds and chalk up a little bit after every two hangs (with rough chalk pieces obviously, otherwise there will be too much on the hands).
We just had a competition in our gym where next to 20 Boulders, there were also 10 challenges (like the ninja warrior salmon ladder). Doing a 10 second hang on these slopers was one of them. Lots of people struggled with it. I thought it was impossible, but after trying a bunch i found the crimp method which kinda worked. But then they said thumbs were allowed, so it became relatively easy:) Have to go back to try the no thumb method, i think i can just about get to 10 seconds.
It's all hanging, a 1 degree difference makes or breaks the hang.
I can front lever some hangboards, can't hang others. When perfectly straight it's hard but with proper shoulder position solid
A tip and two comments Mani.
- Only use tiny amounts of chalk, or none at all. For me the very light dampness of the hands significantly helps with the grip (maybe because of the wooden texture of the board).
- I am at the 7a(+) level and often can do a pull-up without corners on open hand, so I have to disagree with your grading :) It will depend on too many factors, IMO.
- Different boards tend to have different textures, so different gyms might give different results. Let me know if you come to Blockfabrik in Vienna!
Well you are probably climbing below your potential if you really can do pull ups without corners - which is super hard regardless whether it's open grip or any other grip really (without thumb pinching) :P
points 1 and 3 I talked about in the bonus tip section at the end of the video, both absolutely true.
Cheers!
@@ManitheMonkey I surely have some other serious weakness keeping me back :) And yeeeeeah, sorry, I watched the video with no sound!
@@ManitheMonkey I could do that too while climbing about 7A and barely being able to hold the crimps below at bodyweight, the way the beastmaker is conditionned/used and the conditions are everything for the 45. Best is a very used board on a summer day after a session when my skin is a bit more oily, and suddenly it sticks. (On the board I have at home I can't hang on them at all)
I hold on them pressing with my first phalanx, so it doesn't translate much to how you typically use most holds in climbing.
@@ManitheMonkey same here. I started bouldering less than 2 years ago and I'm 35 now. I manage to do 3-4 pull ups without corners and thumb and with sth. between open hand and half crimp.
Do you have a tip on how to climb the slopers that are shaped like wedges with an edge?
what are your max hangs on the bm2000 lower outside edges? how much weight added?
Slightly sweaty hands is the only way I can hang it. I nestle sometimes as I just see it as progression towards being able to hold it open handed. Humidity is one of the biggest factors other than open handed strength. However my core needs to be fully engaged in order to hold it. Good video anyways and I can see from the video I’m not alone
My chalk lasts very long, so i dont't come into the chance of trying different ones. Can you recommend a special one?
Hello Mani,
I have been following your channel for a long time now and I find your contributions mostly great. Regarding the 45er Sloper I want to ad something. I’am holding them with an open hand, which works quite well, also in advanced versions.
My additional tips for this would be:
1. Relatively damp skin and a hint of chalk on a clean, brushed sloper (it must feel like a suction cup)
2. At the beginning, pull slightly outwards for an increase in friction. Also, slightly bend your hands for more contact surface.
3. Start with a pull-up and catapult yourself up the slopers to develop the right feeling.
Videos like this make me--40, out of shape, formerly in excellent shape when I was young--wish I'd gotten into climbing when I was young. Hell, never too late, right?
No, it's not too late. This post hurts my heart. I'm 40, picked it up about 5 years ago and it really enriches my life. Plus, I'm getting better every day (and climb harder than the younger ppl). There just wasn't much access and ppl didn't pump extra cash into kids like now.
@@janaw1230 Hurts your heart? Thank you, but I'm not quite *that* out of shape--about 20-25 lbs over my fittest weight, and actually down 10 from my heaviest about 3 months ago when videos like this first started inspiring me to just exercise.
Even if I can't climb, I feel so much better *using* my body again for the sheer joy of it, and for the health benefits when it's a pain in the ass...or the abs...or the quads...than before when I was just working, eating, and sleeping.
About kids, though...yeah. In some ways I wish parents didn't dump so much money into their kids. Unstructured free time and independence is very useful for development. If I had kids, I'd have them do some structured exercise, of course, but I'd also have them just...go out and be kids without smartphones or tablets. Ride bikes. Climb trees. Things like that.
Cheers, and keep climbing!
Never too late!
@@MrBrachiatingApe oh, OK! Some posts especially on the fitness pages make me so sad, but you aren't one of them. Best wishes that we all continue to find happiness in movement (and the outdoors).
@@janaw1230 Thank you! I appreciate the compassion and encouragement regardless because I don't get a ton day-to-day. I just don't want you thinking I'm, like, dying or crippled.
I've been getting back at it on my own for a month now with my diet and I'm 29/32 for exercising at least an hour a day--counting walks, to be fair--so I'm getting after it and the more I do it, the better I feel, the more I enjoy it.
Have a great weekend/week/all that!
Interested in the thing that you're standing on. What is it?
The cat photo made me giggle.
@ManitheMonkey I believe sloper hanging depends also entirely on the size of your hand, especially with these beastmaker 2000s
maybe not entirely, but it surely is a factor.
Very well said😂
Hi man!
The half crimp is the wrong way
To hang easily on those things you want to have your hands a bit wet, so you should avoid chalk
This way I am able to double jump from the 1000 sloper to the 45 of the 2000 without thumbs and corners
(in my gym they are one over the other)
Nice video. I'm looking for a home hangboard. What are your thoughts about the beastmaker 1000 vs 2000 for a beginner (6a climber)? Also since you mentioned quality of chalk, what are some of the better ones in your opinion?
chalk is for noobs lmao
It's funny how today might be the first time I apply anything I've learned in physics to real life. But I remember that the force of friction is not dependent on the surface area of the two objects, which is why I'm this case using more surface area doesn't increase the friction and doesn't make much of a difference.
It's important to note that while you're right with regards to surface area contact and friction, the biomechanics are also different, so I would suppose that the crimp grip type is stronger for a lot of climbers and that might be why it's easier to hold the slopers.
@@henryjenkins4836 you mean that some hand positions can exert more force than others so that way generating more friction? That would make sense to me.
Yes, mathematical friction does not change if we just increase surface, but leave the force the same (pressure gets smaller though). However, I feel like the greater pressure deforms finger tips in such way - hard to describe - that greater pressure (reducing surface) yields a better friction coefficient, and therefore helps hanging the thing.
@@justinjager8412 yes, I read an article (on climbing doctor I believe) that listed which forearm flexor muscles correspond to flexion of which joint in your fingers. There is a muscle for flexion of your DIP joint (sounds like open hand to me), a muscle for flexion of your PIP joint (half crimp and full crimp), and a muscle for flexion of your MCP joint (what I would provisionally say is mosy likely true sloper strength). If you practice a particular grip consistently, that grip will become more comfortable and also stronger with time. As a caveat, all of this information is second-hand and it's also possible I'm getting some of it wrong, as I'm not really qualified to say with any legitimate certainty.
@@ManitheMonkey sounds like an interesting theory! However, I'm not entirely convinced that holds water, because if I recall correctly coefficient of friction is entirely material dependent. I Would love for somebody to prove me wrong though because you're not the first person to say that crimping slopers is the way to hang them effectively!
Is there is a reason why not "hooking" like that on all slopers, even if they have pretty decent friction?
literally fell apart LOL'd when the picture metaphor for open hand technique was a lil kitten bein pet came up
I tried hanging on these week ago (without corners) and surprisingly got more than 10 sec🤯. Last time I tryed (maybe half a year ago) it felt totally impossible
Thank you Mani!
Someone below has said the point of these is to train open hand grip, but if you cant hold it open hand you can train open hand on something else until stronger.
However outside the hangboard environment this is a great video for dealing with slopers in general!
Very true, glad it's appreciated!
That's why you have sloppers with 3 different angkes on these boards.
Was waiting for this video.. Do you know when maybe the jugs on the beasmaker 2000 break? Or know anyone who's beasmaker broke?
Do you mean “Do you know someone whose beast maker broke?”?
Why are you asking that? I cannot think a situation in which someone could break a beastmaker.
I found this works great, first time i have been solid enough to pull up on them. Deffo need more practice on open hand grip tho
The picture of petting the cat 😭😭😭
I have another tip for bm. Do not hang the hangboard close to a bathroom or if you do, then put some chalk on it almost every day (and brush it) to make take away the moist that comes with steam... My bm 2000 hangs in my room which is right next to the bathroom. I didn't touch it for a few months and it became so slippery, so difficult. If I go to the gym and try bm2000 there, then it seems effortless to do things that are my sub-max effort on my moist bm. I think I don't need to add that I never use 45 deg slopers at my place because I am not able to make them dry. Still... the middle ones are moist enough to feel like the side slopers on a dry bm. :) Right now I've done like 20 chalking-the-bm sessions during 2 weeks, it's much better but still far from where it should be in terms of friction.
Thanks for sharing, interesting stuff!
Is more likely airborne grease from cooking in the kitchen making a board slippery, water steam won’t have any effect once it dries again
@@efteestein Actually kitchen is far away from my room, no way it comes from there.
I had completely opposite effect, crimping the slopers feels like im using two times more forcein my hands and still slipping. I had much better success with beastmaker slopers using stiff open hand, maximizing the surface area and trying to keep even pressure in all contact areas. Tho i never use chalk on my beastmaker as its in my livingroom
i constantly use crimp grip on slopers and get made fun of at the gym. glad to see i am not the only one
Ondra and other Chech climbers use sandpaper on their fingers cause the granite there is really sharp. If you are not used to it then you will have bloody fingers after 2 or 3 days of climbing there. My soft fingers can't take more than 1 or 2 days there. The locals there get calluses and they take it of with sandpaper.
Thumbs up for the similarity with stroking a cat's head. :-D
Mani mal eine kleine Offtopic Frage, verwendest du beim Seilklettern Achter, oder Bowline ?
Bowline :D. Meinst du den Bouleen-Knoten ^^?
@@watuLammini Es wird bowline geschrieben...
Bouleen ist eine eingedeutschte Version des Englischen Wortes.
Der Name stammt daher, dass der Bowline Knoten zum befestigen von Bogensehnen genutzt wird/wurdr, deshalb auch Bowline.
Ich verwende den Bulin (:
@@ManitheMonkey Danke für die Antwort ! Schöne Feiertage noch !
I'm not strong and I can hang those holds. Humidity does pay a factor though.
1:56 😅☺️🤞
KNUCKLES UP! aha
harika paylaşımlar
Belts, my dude! Belts! Have you ever heard of them?
Does hand and finger size matter? I mean there are varying hand and finger sizes from person to person.
Shorter fingers mean shorter levers and that makes it easier for the joints and muscles. But that also goes for any other type of hold. The Surface area of the hands do not matter when it comes to friction. (pressure decreases at same rate at surface increases so it ends up the same no matter what surface area)
Can confirm every beastmaker is different. My local gym has a 2000 and the medium 35 sloper feels easy for me and the 45 I can hang for 3 seconds. The gym board feels a bit tacky and has much better friction. My brand new 2000 series at home feels impossibly slippery smooth with zero friction... the 35 feels very hard and the 45 is not possible.
Yeah the gym one will have had hundreds of peoples sweaty and dirty hands rubbed on it - which makes it much nicer to hang. I know some people who have dleiberately 'steamed' and chalked their BM at home to make it nicer to hang. Also you can check the angle its mounted at - walls are not perfectly upright and the gym BM might be 42 or 43 and your home BM might be 47 which is way harder. I reckon the consistency across the production of the hangboards themselves will be pretty high. It all makes a difference though.
This is a training tool, not a sport. The porpose is to get your crimping or open hand grip stronger. If you wanna improve "hand position", its better to simple go climbing (better outdors).
I wü ham nach Fürstenfeld.
holy arthritis batman.
@MetraMan09 movement is caused by the repeated loading and unloading of the joints. this does wear away the material. just cause you're not flexing and extending your fingers doesn't mean movement of the joints isn't happening. but thanks.
Wtf how I can’t even hold my whole body weight with all of those holes inside of the wooden thingy
ngl he do be wearin crocs doe 😳😳
I'm no strong climber. I used to be decent but at the moment I only manage to boulder 5c. But I can hang on the 45° sloppers on the beastmaster with open hands. I used to be able to do a pullup on them with open hands (now I can bearly manage a normal pullup). I've never been able to hold myself with just two one finger pockets. What I want to say is you need strong hands but not freaky strong hands and fingers to hold on these sloppers. That's why the risk of an injury in your is much higher when you crimp and almost non existent when you use an open hand. That's why you should use this technique if possible.
But what you "teach" here is just nonsense. And I do not mean using crimp is nonsense. I prefer crimps over sloppers because I FEEL more secure if I can hold on to something.
But the beastmaster is a training tool. It's purpose is to help you train and show you where you need to improve. If you crimp on a slopper you just avoid it. Sometimes this might be a decent technique. I also would always crimp before not beeing able to do a boulder. But there are many sloppers where you have to use your whole finger surface and you won't improve on them if you avoid them. Again these boards are for training. If you can not hold them open handed then a) you are not strong enough (what is definitely not true in your case because you are really strong) or b) your technique is wrong.
If you climb on rock or artificial plastic holds in the gym then you need dry hands. If yours are sweaty then use chalk. If you use (too much) chalk on these wooden hold the chalk will act as thousand tiny balls and you will roll down on them.
Oh thats why i can only climb V1's... I just need better chalk
#humblebrag
When he said “waow” my brain immediately went “you can really dance” :’) he really sounds like it
Favourite chalk?
Metolius Superchalk, just magic
gvazimodo style lmao
This is odd because surface area should have no affect on friction. That's just basic physics, but somehow it doesn't apply here.
Its over simplified in 'basic' physics - that's a theoretical model of friction between two surfaces. For example, the friction of rubber is related to its temperature, and temperature isn't accounted for in the F=kN friction equation. One thing to consider though is each finger is producing more normal force (as you press into the hold), so by taking a finger off you are reducing N, so also reducing F - the classic equation still works to a degree. I would definitely agree as a climber though that more skin contact makes slopers easier to hold. But maybe 'friction' is the wrong thing to think about here. What provides friction is the interaction between your skin and the rock (or wood), on a microscopic scale its like thousands of little hooks caused by deformations in the skin and the rock surface, so logically it follows that more 'hooks' would allow a higher load to hang. In reality there are probably a ton of caveats/assumptions for the F=kN equation (just like constant temperature above), and this case doesn't satisfy them. So as always with simplified science, its not 'wrong', its just more complicated.
Even if you just use the classic simplified equation Fr = μ × Fn the surface matters. The coefficient u depends on the material and structure of the surfaces.
@@PeterLE2 He's talking about the surface area - the area of contact between the two surfaces. ie Friction will be the same for a block (of the same material) with a 1m square base or a 2m square base if they weigh the same. The equation is independent of the amount of contact between the surfaces.
@@harrisondreamsofmantles
You are right and wrong. Same was I. I translated it wrong. English is not my mother tongue. Now I got that he meant the amount of surface. I thought he meant the surface in general like material or structure.
But you are wrong when you say the amount of surface is not important.
1. The formula is Fr = μ × Fn is only an approximation but it is sufficient in most cases (it doesn't matter in our case at all).
2. This is only about the force. If the surface area gets smaller a smaller area has to withstand that force. In our case it means all the stress is put only the finger tips.
Anyway thx for pointing our the misunderstanding.
ps: Now I've read your reply to him as well. You are right there are a few "assumptions" in this formula. The common mistake her is that μ s a material constant. Like the electric resistance of cooper for a given temperature for example. But this is wrong because the structure of the surfaces are to important for the friction. You should regard μ as a system constant. But you are wrong when you say N (from F=μ×N) reduces when you take of a finger. N here is normal force. This is the force that works (is this the right word) orthogonal to the surface. If you do not change angles you can only change it by either changing your mass or the gravitational constant. So your only chance to change N by taking of fingers is to chop them of.
Funny edits
I have a problem at my local gym that has a horrible sloper. I worked it a little bit and finally got it. Later trying to repeat the sloper kept holding me back from the send, after much effort I realized what made me stick to the sloper and that was holding it a bit more like a crimp towards the back of the hold! Awesome to see and experience this connection! 😎
Он же показывает не правильную технику... тут хват должен пассивный прорабатываться, как следствие должны давить проксимальной фалангой пальцев для того чтобы прокачивать/укреплять поверхностный сгибатель и сгибатель ладони... Активный хват прокачивают на 12 мм полочках... тренируйтесь грамотно!
But you're using the side of the other sloper...
CZcams should do automatic likes if someone watches 95% or more of a video over a certain length
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