The. Exact. Video. I .Was . Looking. For!!.. Jesus I am certain you are the ONLY video in existence that explains while blankets DO increase performance, that comes as a cost, mainly at the cost of bearings. Thank you for the education!!!
The blanket only makes sense in competitive sports, where the lifespan does not count for that minimal advantage. Has anyone thought about how long the turbo is "cold" without the blanket? As long as it doesn't give floor gas. After the next one, it's already warm... So there is no significant advantage to the blanket, it only reduces the life of the turbo.
Great info. Makes total sense to me. While I understand there can be performance benefits to retaining heat in the turbo as well, I've always wondered why nobody discusses the downsides. In addition to oil coking, I would be the higher peak temperatures and more expansion increase chances of cracking a housing. The turbo blanket turns your hot side into a mini furnace. Also good info on the coolant. If you've got the ports, using them can only help with longevity. I wonder how much an old school style turbo timer would help with the oil coked bearing issues specifically, though I doubt it would be a total fix.
Great information. When I bought some American Made turbos last year with stainless turbine housings, they insisted not to run blankets because the housing retains enough heat, this explains why. Just like you advise, I wrapped components under the hood near the turbo. Used some Design Engineering Floor and tunnel shield stuck to the underside of the hood so it wouldn't cook the paint. I'm surprised no one makes a turbine housing shield similar to what they had on a GN back in the day. Doesn't have be Inconel, I've thought of making one from small stainless steal trashcan or container.
In my Duramax the factory oil feed comes from the valley out of the #3 cam journal. Hot. Danville Turbos recommended a oil relocation line that feeds from the oil galley immediately after the oil cooler before it runs through the engine. Clean cool oil.
One thing that helps mitigate this with a blanket is water cooling or, if not possible, oil cooling before the oil enters the turbo. My oil tap for my turbo is after the remote oil filter and cooler. Also, don't run the piss out of the thing and then shut it off. Heat soaks the crap out of the turbo.
Yes, all of this will help...for sure! Most people just toss a blanket on and then do not give it very much thought after the fact, until they need their turbo serviced. Hopefully all of our tips will save a few turbiskis ;)
I purchased a garrett gtx2867r gen 2 for my mazdaspeed3. Not only did i want to put a turbo blanket one, but take it one step further, encasing the hotside with a layer of ceramic fiber blanket and thin embossed aluminium sheet microwelded over it. Exhaust manifold, same treatment. Like "Thermo Met - heat management solutions", some guys in UK that do that. Bet there are shops states side also. Its a daily car but i want to improve spooling, reduce temps and reduce the chance of fire, if somehow something goes wrong and oil gets over the turbine hotside or downpipe (that ill just put a thin ceramic blanket over the top side, embossed aluminium sheet over the blank it and tie it with heat resistant clamps, leaving the bottom 40% of the surface naked) - seen this happen like 3 times in the last 2 yrs... Figured idd be fine if i drive it slow before a full stop and also letting it idle for 1-3 minutes before shutdown depending on how much time i drive it slow beforehand. Can i alleviate the majority of the downsides and reap the advantages this way? Or do you suggest forgetting about it and just getting a normal blanket or ceramic coat. Im not a great fan of ceramic coating as ive seen them wear off if not done properly. Another thing ive seen are aluminium sheet shields that go over the hotside, but they have to be custom made at a shop. I really favoured the whole microwelding thing, maybe i can do 2/3 of the surface and a part naked, but then there will be temp difference alongside the casing. I really dont know, thought i had it all figured out until this video of yours :)) ffs.
It is a complicated subject for sure. Look at how your factory turbo was heat shielded...pretty simple and protects the factory components good enough for Mazda to mass produce a reliable (somewhat, lol) product. The 2867 is going to spool incredible on that engine, so don't worry too much about that aspect. I would focus on protecting vital components and managing the radiant heat with some type of a nice heat shield. You can obviously "wrap" the downpipe without worrying too much about how it will effect the turbo, and to some degree the exhaust manifold too.
Have another question too, what is the minimum idle cool down do I need to do to get the turbo to cool down at least. Let's say for an example after driving the car for 1 hr and 45 minutes just regular 40 to 60mph mixed of city/hwy, back and forth to work. Thanks.
Most of the time it is best with newer cars to actually drive them easily (like going into your neighborhood or business complex) for at least 2 mins if it is possible. My house is about 2 miles off the interstate, 25-35 mph zones. In this amount of time the exhaust gas temp seems to stabilize and the oil temp drops a bit as well. Once I pull into the driveway I only let the car idle for about 30-45 seconds, just enough to slow down the turbo and then I shut it off. Newer cars seem to warm up a bit once you stop, mainly because there is limited airflow passing through the engine bay. Hope this makes sense! So to answer your question, you want to drop the temps of all of the systems (oil, water, exhaust and the actual engine bay temp) as low as you can before shutting it off. Most new cars this can be achieved with 1-2 miles of "easy" driving and then 1 min of idle before shutting the car off.
Turbo parts are going to get hot...so airflow is always your best friend. After that, proper heat shielding in critical areas, relocation of delicate components away from heat, proper tuning and understanding the limits of the system as a whole are always good guides to follow! -Reed
Great video. I was considering getting the GT-SS Turbos on my RB26 wrapped by thermo-met. Of course these are water cooled turbos, but would you still advise to leave housings uncovered?
I would focus on heat shields on the components on the car (wiring/brake booster/lines etc), the coatings will help out for sure! I am going to do a very in depth "heat shield" video soon...keep an eye out! Thank you
@@workturbo Thanks. Not got any components nearby the turbos thankfully. Just trying to cut down the overall heat in the bay. I am keen to get them coated but not if it will wreck the turbos. My exhaust manifolds are ceramic coated by Zircotec but I am thinking the thermo-met shielding would be more effective. Will keep an eye for any future videos.
I am interested in testing some of the newer "heat shields", my thought is they will protect during operation but allow some airflow around the component to promote cool down...I don't know if that will be the case, but they sure are the most professional heat control solution. And again, if you are comfortable with the cool down routine I described (going back and cranking the engine after it has sat for a few minutes) this will greatly increase turbo life when using a blanket or full coverage heat shield. Applications that absolutely need them, this will just be the routine you will need to get into if you want long life out of the turbocharger.
@@workturbo Would be great to see a test on thermo-met shielding. Do you think the engine only needs cranked after the turbos have been used hard or should it be after every use. Obviously a lot more heat from a full throttle drive than an easy drive around town or cruising on the motorway.
I just ordered a few thermocouples for my Haltech on the daily driver....it will be a few weeks before I can get them all in place, but once I do i will get you some valid data on this for sure. I have been wanting to gather some of this data for a while. It is about to happen! I will update you asap :)
So if a Garrett watercooled turbo goes thru issues like this, how much then for the Precision Turbo's which is air-cooled. So do you say then that watercooled turbo is better than air-cooled? What is your opinion about it. Thanks for this video.
The Garrett only had issues because the customer did not hook up the water lines...most of the time the water lines being hooked up will drastically reduce heat soak. The air cooled ball bearing turbochargers all seem to ultimately suffer from some heat related issues. Like the video states, proper ignition timing and A:F settings help prolong any turbochargers life.
damn.... I'm so worried about my subaru's longevity since I had to prematurely get a new engine at $13000 Canadian. I was thinking about getting a turbo blanket because every other source suggests that there are no cons to it, but I guess unless you get a turbo timer there are indeed inherent risks. My daily commute is about 15-20 minutes, so I try to avoid getting into boost and hopefully have time to run my car 5-10 minutes in the drive way before I hit the road, but then its a bunch of downhill switchbacks and then a straight with more downhill switch backs then a couple uphill bits then a long straight with a couple downs and ups and then down to the harbour. Should have just bought a cheap car for the commute but winter time I'm in snow and need reliable awd. le sigh.
Turbo timers can help, and they can hurt! Look for a video covering this topic soon! But in short, letting a car idle can actually promote heat soak in the engine bay due to the lack of airflow moving through the area. It is best to drive the car very easily if possible for the last 2-3 minutes before you turn it off. For "running into the store real quick" stops...the turbo timer can be your friend, but usually 1-2 mins is all you want it to idle for best results. Thank you!
Turbo timers help...but even at idle you have 400-500 degree exhaust temps. Oil temp will come down, usually to water temp 180-210, so that helps too. It is always a good idea to allow the temps to stabilize at their lowest point before shutting down the car regardless of a blanket or not. Short version, proper idle time to cool down the exhaust and oil is a good thing. Reed
We have used some high end coatings on the inside of the housings (and outside) with good results. This type of thermal isolation seems to do a great job of making the most out of the thermal energy while allowing the housing to cool faster than a blanket does. Generally speaking coatings are a better solution than a blanket.
Spectacular video, my car has twin 62's with ceramic coated housings but I've been considering blankets. Car was built for drag n drives and none of the sensitive bits that are very near the housings have melted yet. I wrap my radiator hose and use reflective tape and have had zero issues
I do not recommend them in most applications. However there are exceptions, and as long as you are aware of their shortcomings and what they do to the turbo you can utilize a blanket...they are very effective at containing heat. We have several road/endurance race cars that use them, but we service the turbocharger on a regular basis, so they never get to the point of having issues.
Water cooling helps TREMENDOUSLY, but we still see issues. I just got a small pair of GT2860R's in that had blankets, water cooled and ball bearing. I will post up some pics on my Instagram feed later this week. @workturbo if you want to check them out!
Ummmmm. Can't you just ensure you don't park your vehicle after doing a heavy pull? You know, let it cool down like you're supposed to? Pretty sure my water cooled M177 LS1 won't suffer these issues.
Idle time will help...but you also have to consider the average IDLE EGT of a properly tuned SI gasoline engine is over 500°F (700-800°F is more typical), "cooling down" is relative. While turbocharger components are engineered to deal with this temperature to some extent, nothing is perfect. And there are very few people out there with the discipline to always "allow cool down time". -Reed
There is an internal heat shield protecting the turbo bearing housing, a turbo blanket keeps heat from the bearing housing, there is NO oil in the exhaust side of the turbo, a blanket further separates and insulates between the two sides. The heat shield in all turbos, except for the ones you work on apparently as you don't mention one doing its job, keeps the heat from slowly transferring itself into the turbine head, down into the shaft, into the bearings. If it does, then put the factory heat shield that should never have been removed back into the turbo. czcams.com/video/5qQeCDasA4M/video.html czcams.com/video/8sXx6Z7opUs/video.html
While the heatshield does provide protection for the bearing housing while the engine is operating and exhaust gas is flowing through the housing, it does very little once the engine is shut down. The turbine wheel retains heat and it transfers through the shaft to the bearings/seal structure as you see in the video. The blanket also insulates heat in the turbine housing, which transfers to the bearing housing as well. The issue is not when the engine is running, it is when it is shut down. All turbochargers we service with the exception of a handful of CT26 MR2 turbochargers have heat shields, they will not physically "work" without them, as their job goes further than just heat management. Most act also as a "seal" between the turbine housing and bearing housing and also are used to set critical clearances between the turbine wheel and housings. Others even hold parts of the variable geometry components into place. Reed
The. Exact. Video. I .Was . Looking. For!!.. Jesus I am certain you are the ONLY video in existence that explains while blankets DO increase performance, that comes as a cost, mainly at the cost of bearings. Thank you for the education!!!
Thanks for the helpful info, most videos on YT don’t mention the consequences of this performance upgrade.
Thank you for the video. I will take off my blanket soon 😂 can’t justify to keep on the blanket with the cons of having my bearing f’ed
The blanket only makes sense in competitive sports, where the lifespan does not count for that minimal advantage. Has anyone thought about how long the turbo is "cold" without the blanket? As long as it doesn't give floor gas. After the next one, it's already warm... So there is no significant advantage to the blanket, it only reduces the life of the turbo.
Great info. Makes total sense to me. While I understand there can be performance benefits to retaining heat in the turbo as well, I've always wondered why nobody discusses the downsides. In addition to oil coking, I would be the higher peak temperatures and more expansion increase chances of cracking a housing. The turbo blanket turns your hot side into a mini furnace. Also good info on the coolant. If you've got the ports, using them can only help with longevity. I wonder how much an old school style turbo timer would help with the oil coked bearing issues specifically, though I doubt it would be a total fix.
Great information. When I bought some American Made turbos last year with stainless turbine housings, they insisted not to run blankets because the housing retains enough heat, this explains why. Just like you advise, I wrapped components under the hood near the turbo. Used some Design Engineering Floor and tunnel shield stuck to the underside of the hood so it wouldn't cook the paint.
I'm surprised no one makes a turbine housing shield similar to what they had on a GN back in the day. Doesn't have be Inconel, I've thought of making one from small stainless steal trashcan or container.
Great info! Thanks. Just sent back the turbo blanket I bought ;-). I'll stick with a heat shield.
In my Duramax the factory oil feed comes from the valley out of the #3 cam journal. Hot. Danville Turbos recommended a oil relocation line that feeds from the oil galley immediately after the oil cooler before it runs through the engine. Clean cool oil.
One thing that helps mitigate this with a blanket is water cooling or, if not possible, oil cooling before the oil enters the turbo. My oil tap for my turbo is after the remote oil filter and cooler.
Also, don't run the piss out of the thing and then shut it off. Heat soaks the crap out of the turbo.
Yes, all of this will help...for sure! Most people just toss a blanket on and then do not give it very much thought after the fact, until they need their turbo serviced. Hopefully all of our tips will save a few turbiskis ;)
I purchased a garrett gtx2867r gen 2 for my mazdaspeed3. Not only did i want to put a turbo blanket one, but take it one step further, encasing the hotside with a layer of ceramic fiber blanket and thin embossed aluminium sheet microwelded over it. Exhaust manifold, same treatment. Like "Thermo Met - heat management solutions", some guys in UK that do that. Bet there are shops states side also.
Its a daily car but i want to improve spooling, reduce temps and reduce the chance of fire, if somehow something goes wrong and oil gets over the turbine hotside or downpipe (that ill just put a thin ceramic blanket over the top side, embossed aluminium sheet over the blank it and tie it with heat resistant clamps, leaving the bottom 40% of the surface naked) - seen this happen like 3 times in the last 2 yrs...
Figured idd be fine if i drive it slow before a full stop and also letting it idle for 1-3 minutes before shutdown depending on how much time i drive it slow beforehand. Can i alleviate the majority of the downsides and reap the advantages this way? Or do you suggest forgetting about it and just getting a normal blanket or ceramic coat. Im not a great fan of ceramic coating as ive seen them wear off if not done properly.
Another thing ive seen are aluminium sheet shields that go over the hotside, but they have to be custom made at a shop.
I really favoured the whole microwelding thing, maybe i can do 2/3 of the surface and a part naked, but then there will be temp difference alongside the casing.
I really dont know, thought i had it all figured out until this video of yours :)) ffs.
It is a complicated subject for sure. Look at how your factory turbo was heat shielded...pretty simple and protects the factory components good enough for Mazda to mass produce a reliable (somewhat, lol) product. The 2867 is going to spool incredible on that engine, so don't worry too much about that aspect. I would focus on protecting vital components and managing the radiant heat with some type of a nice heat shield. You can obviously "wrap" the downpipe without worrying too much about how it will effect the turbo, and to some degree the exhaust manifold too.
Have another question too, what is the minimum idle cool down do I need to do to get the turbo to cool down at least. Let's say for an example after driving the car for 1 hr and 45 minutes just regular 40 to 60mph mixed of city/hwy, back and forth to work. Thanks.
Most of the time it is best with newer cars to actually drive them easily (like going into your neighborhood or business complex) for at least 2 mins if it is possible. My house is about 2 miles off the interstate, 25-35 mph zones. In this amount of time the exhaust gas temp seems to stabilize and the oil temp drops a bit as well. Once I pull into the driveway I only let the car idle for about 30-45 seconds, just enough to slow down the turbo and then I shut it off. Newer cars seem to warm up a bit once you stop, mainly because there is limited airflow passing through the engine bay. Hope this makes sense! So to answer your question, you want to drop the temps of all of the systems (oil, water, exhaust and the actual engine bay temp) as low as you can before shutting it off. Most new cars this can be achieved with 1-2 miles of "easy" driving and then 1 min of idle before shutting the car off.
so its better to move more air under the bay than make parts glow redhot
Turbo parts are going to get hot...so airflow is always your best friend. After that, proper heat shielding in critical areas, relocation of delicate components away from heat, proper tuning and understanding the limits of the system as a whole are always good guides to follow! -Reed
@@workturbo well said
Great video. I was considering getting the GT-SS Turbos on my RB26 wrapped by thermo-met. Of course these are water cooled turbos, but would you still advise to leave housings uncovered?
I would focus on heat shields on the components on the car (wiring/brake booster/lines etc), the coatings will help out for sure! I am going to do a very in depth "heat shield" video soon...keep an eye out! Thank you
@@workturbo Thanks. Not got any components nearby the turbos thankfully. Just trying to cut down the overall heat in the bay.
I am keen to get them coated but not if it will wreck the turbos.
My exhaust manifolds are ceramic coated by Zircotec but I am thinking the thermo-met shielding would be more effective.
Will keep an eye for any future videos.
I am interested in testing some of the newer "heat shields", my thought is they will protect during operation but allow some airflow around the component to promote cool down...I don't know if that will be the case, but they sure are the most professional heat control solution. And again, if you are comfortable with the cool down routine I described (going back and cranking the engine after it has sat for a few minutes) this will greatly increase turbo life when using a blanket or full coverage heat shield. Applications that absolutely need them, this will just be the routine you will need to get into if you want long life out of the turbocharger.
@@workturbo Would be great to see a test on thermo-met shielding.
Do you think the engine only needs cranked after the turbos have been used hard or should it be after every use. Obviously a lot more heat from a full throttle drive than an easy drive around town or cruising on the motorway.
I just ordered a few thermocouples for my Haltech on the daily driver....it will be a few weeks before I can get them all in place, but once I do i will get you some valid data on this for sure. I have been wanting to gather some of this data for a while. It is about to happen! I will update you asap :)
So if a Garrett watercooled turbo goes thru issues like this, how much then for the Precision Turbo's which is air-cooled. So do you say then that watercooled turbo is better than air-cooled? What is your opinion about it. Thanks for this video.
The Garrett only had issues because the customer did not hook up the water lines...most of the time the water lines being hooked up will drastically reduce heat soak. The air cooled ball bearing turbochargers all seem to ultimately suffer from some heat related issues. Like the video states, proper ignition timing and A:F settings help prolong any turbochargers life.
damn.... I'm so worried about my subaru's longevity since I had to prematurely get a new engine at $13000 Canadian. I was thinking about getting a turbo blanket because every other source suggests that there are no cons to it, but I guess unless you get a turbo timer there are indeed inherent risks. My daily commute is about 15-20 minutes, so I try to avoid getting into boost and hopefully have time to run my car 5-10 minutes in the drive way before I hit the road, but then its a bunch of downhill switchbacks and then a straight with more downhill switch backs then a couple uphill bits then a long straight with a couple downs and ups and then down to the harbour. Should have just bought a cheap car for the commute but winter time I'm in snow and need reliable awd. le sigh.
If I connect a turbo timer, will that allow enough cooling after shutdown to allow me to use a blanket on my GT1466?
Turbo timers can help, and they can hurt! Look for a video covering this topic soon! But in short, letting a car idle can actually promote heat soak in the engine bay due to the lack of airflow moving through the area. It is best to drive the car very easily if possible for the last 2-3 minutes before you turn it off. For "running into the store real quick" stops...the turbo timer can be your friend, but usually 1-2 mins is all you want it to idle for best results. Thank you!
What about turbo timers and idling for a while before shutting down.
Turbo timers help...but even at idle you have 400-500 degree exhaust temps. Oil temp will come down, usually to water temp 180-210, so that helps too. It is always a good idea to allow the temps to stabilize at their lowest point before shutting down the car regardless of a blanket or not. Short version, proper idle time to cool down the exhaust and oil is a good thing. Reed
Thank you. Omg i try so hard to tell people this. No one will listen.
What about thermal barrier coatings applied to the inside of the turbine housing?
We have used some high end coatings on the inside of the housings (and outside) with good results. This type of thermal isolation seems to do a great job of making the most out of the thermal energy while allowing the housing to cool faster than a blanket does. Generally speaking coatings are a better solution than a blanket.
Spectacular video, my car has twin 62's with ceramic coated housings but I've been considering blankets. Car was built for drag n drives and none of the sensitive bits that are very near the housings have melted yet. I wrap my radiator hose and use reflective tape and have had zero issues
So basically I shouldn't get a turbo blanket?
I do not recommend them in most applications. However there are exceptions, and as long as you are aware of their shortcomings and what they do to the turbo you can utilize a blanket...they are very effective at containing heat. We have several road/endurance race cars that use them, but we service the turbocharger on a regular basis, so they never get to the point of having issues.
Get a water cooled housing. Problems vanish.
Water cooling helps TREMENDOUSLY, but we still see issues. I just got a small pair of GT2860R's in that had blankets, water cooled and ball bearing. I will post up some pics on my Instagram feed later this week. @workturbo if you want to check them out!
When I switch off my car, an electric coolant pump continues to run for 10 minutes and flushes the turbo.🤷♂️
That will help! Technology at work ;)
Ummmmm. Can't you just ensure you don't park your vehicle after doing a heavy pull? You know, let it cool down like you're supposed to? Pretty sure my water cooled M177 LS1 won't suffer these issues.
Idle time will help...but you also have to consider the average IDLE EGT of a properly tuned SI gasoline engine is over 500°F (700-800°F is more typical), "cooling down" is relative. While turbocharger components are engineered to deal with this temperature to some extent, nothing is perfect. And there are very few people out there with the discipline to always "allow cool down time". -Reed
There is an internal heat shield protecting the turbo bearing housing, a turbo blanket keeps heat from the bearing housing, there is NO oil in the exhaust side of the turbo, a blanket further separates and insulates between the two sides. The heat shield in all turbos, except for the ones you work on apparently as you don't mention one doing its job, keeps the heat from slowly transferring itself into the turbine head, down into the shaft, into the bearings. If it does, then put the factory heat shield that should never have been removed back into the turbo.
czcams.com/video/5qQeCDasA4M/video.html
czcams.com/video/8sXx6Z7opUs/video.html
While the heatshield does provide protection for the bearing housing while the engine is operating and exhaust gas is flowing through the housing, it does very little once the engine is shut down. The turbine wheel retains heat and it transfers through the shaft to the bearings/seal structure as you see in the video. The blanket also insulates heat in the turbine housing, which transfers to the bearing housing as well. The issue is not when the engine is running, it is when it is shut down. All turbochargers we service with the exception of a handful of CT26 MR2 turbochargers have heat shields, they will not physically "work" without them, as their job goes further than just heat management. Most act also as a "seal" between the turbine housing and bearing housing and also are used to set critical clearances between the turbine wheel and housings. Others even hold parts of the variable geometry components into place. Reed
lot of dead air man
Yes sir, lack of airflow is not very turbo friendly!