The Best Way To Mic A Piano
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2019
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*** TO SKIP STRAIGHT TO THE MICING OF THE PIANO BIT GO TO 02:47 **
Thanks to Funky Junk for the loan of the monster microphone: www.proaudioeurope.com/
Here's the mics I used:
#sontronics Apollo 2: www.sontronics.com/apollo2.htm
#soyuzmicrophones 017 (Tube): soyuzmicrophones.com/017-series
Neumann M149: en-de.neumann.com/m-149-tube
The stands: latchlakemusic.com/
THAT modular jam: • Can I Cure My Fear Of ... - Hudba
These days I live in an apartment that doesn't allow pets so I enjoy your videos with Oscar running around so much just to watch him.
I spend a few years (a long time ago) as a recording engineer and live sound mixer so for me micing a piano is one of those "it depends" type questions. What sound are you looking for and what style of music is going to determine type of piano, mic's, and close micing or far, and mic positions. One thing that I was taught in my recording days was getting the low end of acoustic instruments and even electric guitar amps. Things we'd do is mic the back of acoustic guitars, but also back of upright pianos and underneath grand pianos it can add a lot of fullness to the sound. Weird I learned about even micing the backside of open cabinet guitar amps that there is a lot of mid to to low end that you'd hear in a room, but not with front mics. Been a long time so I don't remember details, but one of the old studios in Hollywood that did many of the early rock hits there main piano setup was an old dynamic ElectroVoice mic under the piano. They found a sweet spot under the piano and the mic almost touching the piano. That sound was so good they later had some mount create where that mic in position was permanently mounted to the piano and always available.
Other craziness with the "Elton John" type piano box or hood for acoustic piano we built one where I worked. Or my favorite was giving life to really dead recorded tracks of an artist by putting big playback speaker under a piano with speaker pointed at the soundboard. Then a cinderblock on the sustain pedal and micing the strings. Then we played back the recorded tracks thru the speaker and then captured the sympathetic string vibrations of the piano to add some overtones and life to the previously dead tracks.
Aw fun with audio watching your videos makes me want to mess around with audio again. Thanks for your video and Oscar.
Whoa. You engineer-types are always out of the box and always impressive.
did you work in concert halls aswell? I've been wondering how they record a grand in a live performance, since you can't see the mics. also which of the many microphones hanging from the ceiling are used for which situation?
@@svenhegenmusic an open cover piano can have a suspended mic just near the cover top, making it a bit hard to see from the audience. also common these days (less in classical recording, more in live amplification usage) is using a clip on mic such as a dpa 4099p. they have magnets that stick to the soundboard and are usually directed towards the hammers or in some stereo configuration to the strings.
I'm assuming you're talking classical concerts so the answer is no. From what I understand a lot of concert halls have permanent mic setups from years of working the room. But in situation like that I would assume people want a more natural sound so open mic'ing nothing close. If Pop, Jazz, etc then close mic'ing and how close and which mic's would depend on how bright and percussive a sound the artist wants. Then for rock some of the name pianists now using fake grand pianos so tuning and transportation is less of a issue. The audience sees the shell of a grand piano, but the keyboard has been replaced with a MIDI controller or digital keyboard that that runs into a rack unit off stage. That greatly reduced the weight, the piano sound can be changed for as necessary for each song, and the artist has a familiar keyboard ever night unlike using rental pianos. Better than the old day when big name artists would carry a grand piano on the road. The biggest Anvil (flight case) I ever saw was for I think it was Elton John's grand piano. The case was built to so the piano on its side on a piano dolly could slide into the case. But to do that require having your own piano tuner/technician on your crew.
Wow I love the piano "re-amping" technique that is so interesting
What a luxurious sound! Thank you for your videos.
Wait is this the real Nahre Sol? Fancy seeing you here!
The Best Way to Mic A Piano:
have the best mics
that's what I thought
Not always hahaha! You could totally find a way to record it with a sm58 and have a somewhat acceptable/good sound
Having worked with very expensive and very affordable mics, I'd say mic placement and mic type + polar pattern choices are waaay bigger factors than the price tag. Of course the more expensive mics give you even nicer results, but it's very easy to mess up the sound with them as well if you don't know what you're doing.
@@JiihaaS could you recommend an affordable pair of condenser mics that work well with piano?
@@chinor3999 how affordable are we talking about? ☺
The two extra mics really make an incredible difference! Very happy to see pianobook open up into a community, I'm eager to contribute to the forum. As always, thank you for making this.
This idea is great and I will definitely be tuning in. Thanks for the super informative and inspirational content Christian!
... I am speechless...
Silky and beautiful sound ~
Happy Piano Day..
Brilliant! Happy Piano day everyone!
As usual, great to watch your videos. A musician can NEVER have too many instruments and what a lovely way of being able to have some awesome sounding pianos in our instrument collection. I just wish i still had our family piano as I do miss it.
I kind of think that is the most beautiful upright recorded sound i have heard til now. Nice video!
Thankyou for this very helpful video Lucy. I had exactly this issue on one of the treble hammers on my century old George Steck upright. After I watched it I ordered both tools and felt confident enough to make the repair myself.
Sounds incredible!!
Thanks, Christian! This was really a gamechanger for me. Absolutely blown away of the sound, especially when working in a rather small room.
Really lovely sound!
Happy piano day. Such a fantastic eye opening video on sampling.
Thanks a lot for this Christian, this setup solved my long-lasting upright recording problem and became my way to go
The sound of the Apollo is so satisfying it makes you smile, isn't it?
Thanks Jivko!
Christian, I honestly want to thank you for your enormous contribution to the music and sampling community. I admire you.
Just got an upright for my studio. Super high quality video thank you, will be trying these techniques once she’s tuned up and ready to go 👏🏼
Awesome video! You picked up all the right timbre out of this piano. thank you for a great lessons!
Your piano sounds amazing !
I just had a piano recording session and I took heavy inspiration from this setup. Obvious differences was it was a baby grand and not an upright, and I also just had to use completely different mics but I don’t want to hear a piano with any other setup again. Been loving the videos for years and I’ll continue to do so, thank you so much for what you do!
freakin` awesome ! Amazing !
Another great video for referencing 'how to'
One of my fav channels- informative, fun, has dog cameos :)
You rock!
Wow, that sounded too awesome!!!
this sound awesome.
Thanks so much for this advice!
Honestly I would have been thrilled with just the M149s but that ribbon took it to a new dimension. Thanks for sharing.
Amazing difference when you start combining the sound from the different microphones. It goes from sounding like a (still very beautiful) Naxos or Chandos recording to one of those godlike sounding Deutsche Grammophon recordings.
Sir, you just casually set up those consider the best microphone of this planet, the mics of every musician dream!
OMG the Apollos gave instant goosebumps.
Thank you!
Happy Piano Day everyone!
Ah! I feel the same way when I listen to the Soyuz and the two M149's being played back together. That is absolutely incredible - sweet sounding! As we in Minnesota like to say "Uff da!"
A brilliant video (as always, Christian) that makes our Apollo 2 sound gorgeous and underlines the fact that Gary has very good taste. Try the Mercury in the middle next time!
7:58 BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a pianist (studying classical performance at uni) but always been interested in composing and have a couple pieces I want to put on CZcams but a complete novice when it comes to recording, so this was really helpful!
Great! Now i have to buy the apollo i guess. Great tipps as always.
Thanks king 🙏
great video!!!
Ohh,that sounds delicious.
I agree with Nahre Sol about the quality of the sound!!! I felt that I was missing a spectrum of fullness and I am taking your advice and adding a ribbon. Thank you for your great video..😊
I love this video so much. Thanks for this. Which Latchlake model are you using here Christian?
Love the Gnossienne No.3, 4 mics togheter sound absolutely gorgeous
The mic reveals were like a strip tease! Each one was a jaw dropper! Sorry for your pocket book CH but that was kind of amazing (even through the YT filter). Another great piano mic is the Telefunkin AR70 stereo tube mic. I've used it "under the lid" and it does a great job. Not exactly cheap but hey, it's a Tele!
Thank you so much, this is fun to watch you passionate! I have a question regarding your voice recording: which microphone STAND do you use here for your voice? Merci for any tip on that !
Goddamn that editing is quite, unique (it really fits his movements/gestures tho)
Been mic-ing my Fender tweed the last couple days and recording some guitar tracks but now I think I’m leaving some sonorous possibilities on the table after watching this. Ha! Who am I kidding!? I’m lucky Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles still keeps my kid’s attention in 22-min increments, long enough to get stuff down! One mic will have to do for now.
As always, thanks for the work you put into these edits. It shows and makes them irresistible. I don’t have much time these days but I’m always anxious to see the CZcams notifications when one is ready. I hope those around you appreciate their value as I’m sure they take considerable time to do.
You should definitely try a Halo or Delta 2 on that lovely Tweed! We have one in our studio and it is such a great amp
Wow, hats off to Mr Barlow
That recording set-up :O
My mouth is still open after listening to that sound
I dont agree with all. if you put a mic below the piano. take off the lower door and mic down there you will get SOOOOO much more bass and sound.
Wow, wow, wow!
Just wondering what external mic you use when filming outside as the audio is crystal clear without any wind interference
i wish i couldve contributed samples of my father's bechstein. Sadly we lost it in a house fire before I got the chance to record it at a quiet time.
ill for sure sample the new piano we will buy with the insurance money.
keep up the great content Christian.
Great vid, subbed. Please respond!!! How do you not have phasing issues having those mics so close together (the middle mic on the strings is right next to the Neumanns). I thought you had to have a 3:1 distance ratio
Piano is sounding better than ever. What a great choice of mics. Now... what's the cameo with Jake all about?
Hello! Can you tell me what camera you used to film this video? Looks gorgeous.
8:00 I agree with you
your youtube is so good
I have the Sontronics STC-2 and it's amazing..
Thanks Ilia. We're glad to know you're already one of the family!
Sounds wonderful. Is that a Schimmel C116?
what DAW do you use? great video btw.
I just stumbled upon a piano mic technique that you (and your followers) might enjoy. In addition to the stereo pair of condenser mics on the hammers, I also added a single mono tube condenser under the keybed facing the strings at the bottom of the soundboard. Basically the mic is sitting low towards the ground just off to the side of the piano bench. It's pointed towards the center of the soundboard where the treble and bass strings cross. As soon as I brought that mic up in the mix......oh.....yumm..... It seems to add a lot of the body that uprights can lack compared to grands but also has some added punch to the notes without too much attack or noise. I highly recommend giving it a shot. I'll probably never go without it again.
Hi Sir, Is this method similar to micing the lower back of the piano ? Also, if you know of any more budget friendly options to the mics used here I would appreciate it!
What is that song that plays at the begining of the video, i've heard you play it a few times on this channel and was wondering if you wrote it or not. Either way it's a beautiful piece.
incredible!! i need more microphones now hahahahha
Thankyou
What is that mic mounting system?
sounds beautiful! I struggle getting a good mic
sound out of my spinet
Moral of the story - play a real piano into a real microphone. It’s gonna sound better than any sample library.
jsnell126 of course !!! But not if you’re not a very good piano player like me!
I always seem to pick up key clunking and hammer noises when miking an upright from the front with the covers off like you’re doing. Are you doing anything that would reduce that in your setup?
What about using the Neumann microphones such as the TLC103 or the expensive 87ai? would it make a difference?
Another thing to consider, the top lid sounds different than up. With the lid down, you're creating another space. I find there's less boxiness and phase issues with it up.
Only a truly Artist teach others how to sounds really good so others can sounds good too, so listeners can appreciate it.
Thanks for this Award Video! Truly Epic video!
Where can I find that song you made? to add it to my mystery piano playlist on Spotify.
What software are you using? Did I miss that? Thank you.
Those sure look like some beautiful mics. Personally, though, I think you were already 99% of the way there (on that instrument, in that room) with the two M149s in the original position (that's a really gorgeous sound). I always find multi-mic on piano experiments interesting, but the acid test for me is mono compatibility. Here in the year 2019, you wouldn't think mono compatibility would be that important, but it still is. Lots of mics often equals lots of phase problems.
exactly!
Are you using the M149's in omni or Card?
Can we get another video like this but with budget microphones?
Schimmel makes the best uprights. I like it more than a stainway grand!
Because a ribbon is tall and thin, it's a small diaphragm in the horizontal and large in the vertical. Like a column speaker in reverse.
What where the preamps out of curiosity?
Anyone know which Latch Lake stand is being used here? (Not sure if Christian checks in on videos this old) Looking to try something similar without the droop problem.
How can you avoid noises from the breathing and the stool?
Are the m149s in cardioid or Omni?
I would love to record my album with this set-up but it is outside the scope of my budget. Could someone here or the OP suggest some more affordable alternatives ?
When you listen the recording you don't use Headphones? just the monitor? i thought you can capture a lot more details with a good pair of Headphones. I'm confused :)
I am wondering (and I am going to test it out myself) how much I can replicate it with a much less expensive microphone as a substitute for the Soyuz. I am hoping (praying really) that it will do the same thing that the Soyuz is doing :-) Like reverbs on vocals, much benefit can be had by placing a mono reverb in the middle where the voice is, to add glue to the voice. I think that is what the middle placed microphone is doing, whether it's a mega expensive Soyuz or not :-) Loved the demo though and thanks for sharing this. I am now investigating further mike placement.
You’re the David Attenborough of music.
Here in Seattle we have an event each summer where nine pianos are placed out in public spaces for people to play (Pianos In The Park). I had thought of trying to record one of these outdoor pianos. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it's happening this year. :o/
Have you tried out any PZM microphone's? Those I found sound killer if you tape them under the lid or behind the soundboard!
Amnesia I want to try defo.
For the 017 would you have to flip it upside down, having the diaphragm on the bottom n body on top bcz of the tube emmiting heat. I have heard this being a thing. Is this something you follow by?
No its more the geography of using a single stand for 3 heavy mics.
Which Latch Lake model stand is that?
Did you find this out Kate? Trying to piece it together and struggling a bit.
Video is great. But what if i dont have 30k of gears ?
That is indeed a monster piano set up. At just over 11K for microphones.... but it sounds wonderful, and I'm trying to figure out which bank I can rob :-)
I really enjoyed this video, but can't help but to joke: Best way to mic a piano: buy $17k in microphones, place them in front of the piano. Got it. ;-) But seriously, gorgeous sound and really beautiful playing, too! I was surprised there was nothing behind the piano or below the keyboard, just for some kind of ambience. Good to know, and thank you!
the Apollo sounds like I am sitting next to Erik Satie drinking a glass of wine on a summers eave Cote Dazur France. Isn't it remarkable how a mono mic can sound so good ?
actually, the stereo image of the apollo seems kinda off..
Best dog :)
But my lord does it feel nice - Haha best quote
Christian, out of curiosity, how far is your upright from the wall?
Angelo Boltini right up against it... but I guess that’s where uprights usually are so figured that is real life? Do you have an alternative theory there?
Christian Henson Music I’m not a pianist so no expert on the instrument, but I always hear people say they sound better away from the wall. Which makes sense with reflections and such. Then again, as my facial expression was the same as yours when that Soyuz was turned on, it honestly sounds amazing as is
Anyone can come up with some cheap alternatives to these?
What's the max number of microphones ever used on one piano? Does anyone know the answer to that? There is no limit to how many mics an engineer can use in order to keep a lush sound is there? I mean what if a grand was mic'd up with a lot of them circling the whole piano, and from distances around it, that would be an idea of mine to test how mics an engineer can use without clipping the stereo output, but keeping a decent level on each.