Sol-Ark 12K Inverter - Six (6) Month Review
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2023
- Sol-Ark 12k six month review. We live 100% off-grid and we were using the Sol-Ark 12k for 6 months with no problems.....until we got caught in the firmware update trap! Today we are sharing what happened, how we fixed it, and what we learned along the way...
FYI Solark Users: The problem version for us was the 6222 and when they rolled us back it went to the 6983 version we are currently running.
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We are Rich & Kathie, a retired couple building our dream home: A SUPER ENERGY EFFICIENT OFF GRID earth sheltered home in the Adirondacks!
The house will be covered with about 30" of soil which helps to maintain an internal temperature between 45 and 75 degrees Fahrenheit in winter & summer respectively. This means that in the winter we will only need minimal heat that we plan to provide with a small wood burning stove and we shouldn't need any air conditioning in the summer at all!
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Gotta love technology.....NOT! You guys are a candid reminder for everyone...."Simple doesn't mean easy"! Glad they final rolled back the firmware for you. Great videos, always so informative.
Thanks! Technology drives us absolutely crazy sometimes....but we are happy it seems to be working.
You guys have proved that Solark really screwed up and we also fear the systems upgrade conundrum.
It was definitely a screw up but it seems better and we hope it lasts. Updates definitely are a conundrum!!!
I was trying to decide between SolArk and EG4... this video makes me happy that I went with EG4... granted, I'm sure they have their problems as well. Thank you for sharing.
David Poz had a similar problem. The problem is the Sol-Ark is basically two 120V connected in series to create 240V. Running a 240V piece of equipment applies 120V on each leg keeping the unit balanced. If you have two 3000W units on one leg you get 6000W on a leg only good for 4800W, results, shut down. The cure is installing a autotransformer. It helps balance the two legs. See David Poz video on why the Sol-Arc didn't work for me. It shows his problems and how he corrected the situation.
After you watch the full video you’ll see that we did reference David Poz because we did watch his video and our problems were a little different. However, after everything we tried, we did actually resolve our issue with solark and the saw works great with the inverter again 😊
Red poppy ranch had the same problem with unbalanced legs. The hair dryer would create too much of an imbalance and the unit would shut down.
I felt for your problems and I'm glad that you've been able to resolve them! I have myself a solar system for over a year, 5 KW on 240V (standard in Europe) and it was a pain all along until recently. Something wasn't right from the beginning... To cut my story short, after two claims I got a new hybrid inverter unit and now is all great :-). But I feel that unless one pays a big bug for a proven American or German brand, it's a bit of gamble. I overpaid for the unit quite a lot by buying it from a local distributor (as opposed to Amazon and alike), but at least I have functional tech support and reliable 2 year warranty.
Glad it worked out for you. Interesting that you only use 240,…it’s how the inverter works with both 240 and 120 at the same time that confuses us the most
Glad you got it running, things like this make people shy away from Solar
So true. But we honestly had no problems until the update!
Love the way it becomes your problem to figure it out. Instead of SolArk fixing it or replacing it immediately.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've worked in tech support for a renewable energy company, so I understand that the support rep had a "script" she had to follow...steps to check, to make sure it wasn't their product. Those things would make sense if you had a new installation, but in your case you had a system that worked fine until the single change. So, I wouldn't give them too much credit for "great support" because if the rep had a good understanding of the system and product they should have skipped much of that needless testing in your case.
I don't believe you ever exceeded the current limit of the inverter. I suspect that that the most recent firmware update had a change to (or the addition of) a ramp limit. That's a monitoring of the Delta (I'd put a triangle here, if I could)...the rate of change...and it's likely that the inverter's new firmware sensed the current climb rapidly from near-zero to the saw's inrush current and cut off the inverter because it anticipated a current climb that would exceed limits...even though that limit didn't get hit. I saw this exact issue in a wind turbine inverter firmware and a change to the ramp setting fixed the issue.
Thank you. I think that’s the best stated explanation yet and I agree wholeheartedly. That’s exactly how we felt about all the steps and tests (the script) but we wanted to continue our warranty so went along with it. We’re just really glad we’re back to working properly and as we expected when we purchased the unit.
I've had a Solark for 4 year this September and couldn't be happier. I upgraded the firmware recently because of trying to get the generator input working properly. Once I did that I had some weird solar input dropouts where one array of two would stop generating power - a problem I NEVER had before. I called them and was just gaslit by the support guy, I was so mad I considered replacing the thing but remembered the 6 months of hell I went thru before with all the other usual cheap Chinese inverters you see all over CZcams. Needless to say that problem I was having went away shortly after my numerous emails complaining. Maybe they changed some setting, who knows? It has now gone back to being a reliable workhorse. I'm not upgrading any firmware unless at gunpoiint.
Wow. Sorry that happened. We agree though, why upgrade if it’s working fine?
Just remember that SolArk are Deye inverters (cheap Chinese inverters) with custom SolArk firmware. The problem is the US firmware not the "cheap chinese" hardware
Disconnect it from the internet.
@@scottlubsen9004 Only connected when it needed to be, otherwise NOT. We actually say that near the end of the video
@@niffrig I think that FW actually the same on all of them (Deye, SolArk, SunSynk) Difference is in GUI part. But the base code is the same for all of them.
The fact that the chopsaw didn't trip the inverter when you were already pulling a few kW of load suggests that the new buggy firmware pukes when it sees a sudden surge from a low load condition, the inverter control loops being better able to handle a surge when they're already dealing with a big load.
Yes. That makes sense!
yeah, I suspect if they had a decent load on the other leg it wouldn't have tripped
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid What may have caused it is if Sol-Ark didn't update your inverter properly and just pushed the latest software/firmware revision without doing the intermediate updates first. Any new dependencies introduced by the intermediate revs that are referenced by the newest firmware can and will break things iffen they aren't there when the firmware expects them to be there.
Wow, sorry to see you go through all of this. Hopefully everything works out for you
Thanks. so far so good....and it has been about a week.
I'm glad you were able to touch on the 2 120 volt legs. Something else to keep in mind is the power factor induction motors do not have a perfect power factor. Sounds like the firmware update caused it to trip out due to significant imbalance between the two legs of 120. About a year ago I was reconfiguring my breaker panel to balance all my 120 volt circuits. So I would not burn up the front windings on my generator. I managed to get it down to 20% over. No more can be done without a rewiring of the house. For everyone who is building a house also plan out your high amp 120v loads to balance across the 2 120v legs.
This is why Schneider inverters are the best in America. I have 2 5k all in one Growatt US version inverters. I can spike to 12kw for 10 seconds I they do not cut off. Schneider is the best but I didn't have Schneider money. What you spent Schneider was the way to go.
We are definitely sorry we didn’t understand it all better, however it is working well for us again now. This had the charge controller inside, Schneider needed us to buy one. This just seemed like it was a simple ‘plug and play’ which it was, and it was working great until the update. We probably wouldn’t have ever learned we only get 4500-4800 watts for 120 if not for the update… what’s done is done I guess
Or Victron. "Expensive things come in pretty little blue boxes"~Tiffany's
Thanks for the videos guys, from a long-time ADKer (60 yrs?)
I've just signed a contract for an 18kw array, Enphase/Q Cell battery system, and I'm taking notes for my first meeting with the Project Manager. Just added: Ask how firmware/software updates are handled, and is there a solid back-out plan in case of failure?
I'm retired from a 25 year, very technical, IT career. I've done a few firmware updates and the vast, vast majority of them are successful, and are important. But you need to have a solid process for saving the configurations and restoring them if needed. It's brain surgery and failures can be fatal.
Rock on!
That’s going to be a great system👍 and I agree about updates but unfortunately our experience with phones and computers has been more negative than positive.
I've been running enphase IQ7s,then IQ8s since Nov. 2021. Imbalance was simply a non issue. House wall wiring remained the same after installation. To date system has produced 20.87MWh. Updates can be done by the installer or enphase (automatically). Over the years have received many upgrades without any issues, to date.
Well that was fun, great video. Im about to build off grid and was looking to get the 15k. So i looked for off grid projects on you tube and found your video. Hope all is well with your system!
All us working perfectly again! Good luck with your build!
The protection algorithm in the Sol-Ark is probably set for detecting an overcurrent NO MATTER what the duration. The saw probably has a very fast (microseconds) transient that the software sees but the meters may not have time to display. The software engineers at Sol-Ark need to build some "pad" into their protection and they need to adapt their software so it CAN display very short peaks of current. The peak current from an electric motor can vary from small to 2 or 3 time the rated NOMINAL amps. Sol-Ark needs to go back to the code. Circuit breakers are much slower than a fast transient and would not always or even often trip. I am an EE.
Good Morning To Both Of You 👌👍😇🌞I think you are suffering of a post trauma electric solar panel systems 🤣👌👍Keep Up Your OUTSTANDING Team Work and Sense Of Humor 👍👍👌👌😇😇Cheers 🍻🍻
LOL thats awesome but it really was a tough couple of weeks trying to build here...never a dull moment!
It is not just the amps surge. It is also the inductive component of the surge current. With saw motor startup there is a highly inductive current which the inverter has trouble with. It can damage inverter.
The inverter's maximum current ratings are based on resistive loads like an electric heater.
A motor's inductive surge can cause a voltage overshoot spike on the inverter's internal high voltage DC supply. There is a large bank of 14 capacitors for high voltage DC filtering that get stressed with voltage overshoot.
The new firmware likely changed the protection against inductive surge current reducing the amount of allowed HV DC overshoot inside the inverter.
Buy a $15 'Kill-A-Watt' meter and check the power factor of the saw. A power factor of less than 0.8 gets into troublesome area. During startup the power factor is worse than run power factor.
Guy did all the troubleshooting and quality of service for the inverter. I hope he got compensated for that issue that started with a bad firmware from arc.
thank you for posting this
As we used to say, "Just another little nick as you slide down the razor blade of life." I hope that the Sol-Ark people are following this channel.
We’ll said!!
One the reasons I bought my Pecron portable solar generator was because it doesn't have wifi so no firmware updates. To many bad memory's of when I used to use Windows. Lol Great video. You guys have the patience of saints. I would have been not so nice to the girl on the phone. You paid 7 grand you should get what you paid for.
We have those same windows memories! Lol. Anyhow, we aren’t connected unless we choose too. There’s a dongle that plugs into the side. You can see it blinking red on the left side of the router in some of the video I think, but mostly it’s not. We never keep connected. We have a small solar generator as well but have never connected it to WiFi either. It was a lot of money and we’re definitely disappointed, but it was working great for the first six months. So far we are good and haven’t shut down since the rollback
Fascinating! Many thanks for sharing.
I have yet to do a firmware update on any of my solar equipment. I run a 6kw Sun Gold Power split phase. I have no problem with overload. THe worst thing I have to throw at it is the my big air compressor. It handles it just fine. I then decided to try my 2.4 kw MPP Solar and it never shut down either. I hope Solark get this fixed for you quickly.
Thanks. Your system sounds good. Sol ark did get us working again.. hopefully it lasts. Cost too much to play games
I have 4 x Sungoldpower model tp6048 low frequency inverter in parallel, the low frequency is able to start a 24000btu and a 18000btu minisplit without any soft start, my hot water tank and my 2 freezers and refrigerator and still have plenty of power for anything i can throw at it like hair dryers, electric kettle and air fryer
Sol Ark inverters are famous for having issues with 120 inductive loads. I've seen many video's where this happened to folks. I personally went with Schneider after having never ending issues with cheaper inverters.
As noted in some previous comments, I recommend adding an auto-transformer to your SolArk split-phase inverter to help even out the load. In the video, I noticed a significant difference between L1 and L2 in some settings. This makes it hard to get the most out of your inverter because there's often 120V equipment on one side that throws off the balance, leading to the inverter shutting down. Since your inverter doesn't have built-in load balancing due to its transformerless type, installing a split-phase auto-transformer could help distribute the load more evenly between L1 and L2.
As a 5 yrs (and counting) off-grid solar system operator, it's painful to see you have to go thru such a long list of 'tasks' that you shouldn't have had to do. Seems like a system this expensive should have a way to record what caused the error within it's firmware - so you don't have to do hit/miss diagnosis. Also, I don't upgrade firmware as long as I can avoid it / things are working and this episode illustrates why. Enjoyed following you're build to this point and thank you for all the really inspirational vids!
We said the same thing but apparently it only records every 5 minutes so if it wasn’t at that exact moment it misses it. Absolutely ridiculous and we won’t be doing anymore updates. Definitely wouldn’t recommend this to a anyone for off grid use
Hey Rich. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm looking for an all in one inverter system and SolArk is on the short list. Your video has made me be more prepared and ready to ask very specific questions before I decide. Thanks again and I hope all is going well.
Happy that I could help. We are honestly very happy with this one and we have had no more issues, however if I were to do it again I would probably go for the 15K which was not available at the time we chose the 12K. Good luck!
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid Hi Rich - Getting first hand feedback is the best for me. I hear you and I'm still very positive on SolArk, it's just better to know about a product before making an investment. Especially on something that supports a critical function. I've worked with technology for a long time and have many stories to tell about when things don't go well. For my needs, I'll definitely need a single or two very large inverters. Getting closer for sure. Many thanks again and all the best to you.
No problem 👍
Hey Rich, I've learned a bit (and have been mildly entertained :)) )while watching your journey..... You are correct, in the grand scheme of things, 300watts doesn't seem like much, but it does add up. Keep it up, looks like a great place, and I'm sure it will work out in the long run. Firmware is always tricky, as an engineer myself, I strongly believe "if it ain't broke, don't upgrade". The vendor will always say, bring it to the most current for warranty purposes, but ... well, that's all I have to say about that. FYI, had a similar issue and learned all about inductive loads with my well pump and the in-rush current with my previous system (It was an older Growatt all in one). It helps having the correct tools and understanding the value of in-rush loads. AC compressors, well pumps, other motors all have this issue. Soft-starts help a bunch. I do love the Sol-Ark suite of products... decided to go with the 15k unit for a few reasons... First,. I can use the 200 amp ATX and completely get rid of the Generac ATX. That's cool. Additionally, as it has a 200 amp transfer switch, I can use it to power the whole house instead of needing a critical loads panel. If I do decide to grid-tie (which I'm not going to do at the moment), it will work well and I can sell the extra back to the power company. But the extra power (15k vs 12k) was the biggest reason, and the price difference was insignificant. I realize the new 15k is new, and wasn't available when you made your decisions, and to upgrade to it may be a challenge, but you might give it a thought. it does handle much larger inductive loads/in-rush currents. Cheers, keep up the good work on your homestead!
Appreciate that. It definitely does seem like the 15 k would be better , but now that they rolled back the firmware update were back to operating the way we planned. We really did buy all our electronics knowing we were off-grid - including the softstart well pump. We were aware of inrush currents and knew the 12k had a 66 amp surge for 10 seconds which seemed like enough and was enough until the update. We planned everything ahead of time using Solarks stated parameters. Somehow the firmware update changed those parameters which is not ok and not fair to those who bought it and planned everything based on those parameters as we did. We really appreciate all your support!
Great knowledge. I'm not going to have near the loads for some time, but when I ordered my system (which is yet to be installed, after almost a year, because of.. .well, life) I did the Victron dual 10K Quattro's.
Sounds like you’re going to be good to go with that system! Ours sat around for 7 months before we installed it. Our fingers were crossed but it was working great for 6 months 👍
I’ve a 5k Quattro and despite a lot of abuse it has not once quit in the 14 years we’ve had it.
@@kevinmills5293 LV systems are oldfasioned. Victron should really go into HV.
Man, that would drive me nuts. At least you were able to run back a version of the firmware. But, hopefully they resolve their firmware issues.
it really did drive me nuts too....I was very frustrated but happy it seems to be working now.
I would have lost my mind lol but at least it’s working again
I kind of did for a while there....but that is one of the reasons we believe in redundancy...backup to the backup to the backup because you never know!
How far past your original time to be finished have you run?
I’m sure you don’t let people know where you are for privacy reasons but we will be up again next week for ten days I’m curious is if you would allow someone to come and visit and see your home and your progress
Too far but over a year right now! And message us through Facebook if you can
I have a spare 12k laying on the floor because it kept shutting down. Mine was the older version. I've been using a Schneider XW Pro now for a while and haven't been able to shut it down yet. Make sure they put you on the "do not update" list!
Good to know! We were or I going with the Schneider but then talked into this one… hindsight… and thank goodness we aren’t connected to the internet with it so we put ourselves on that list!
Your issue is balancing between the two phases. The Solark uses a transformereless design, which makes it much more sensitive to unbalanced loading. The newer firmware must have increased the protection for unbalanced loading. If that saw was 240V, you'd have no issue. It's also kinda ironic that if you had more load on the other 120 leg while starting the saw, it would probably have no problem. Last note - you could add a balancing transformer between the output of the Solark and your load panel, which would make all loads appear as 240V loads to the Solark. They're not cheap, but it would completely remove the concern.
Imagine spending 7k usd on an inverter, only to buy a transformer to solve your issues. Your comment might be right, but it isn't reasonable at all.
@@meilyn22 I'm we'll aware of that, but they've already bought their inverter, and are probably stuck with it. The transformers aren't cheap but would cost far less than just outright replacing the inverter.
@@coreyfinch5718 cost 0 to get it fixed! Should work the way they expected.
The EG4 18k is a true 12k 240 split phase with 18k solar input. Surge at 14k for 10 minutes and only costs $5,599. I would never own a Sol-Ark, even if it where given to me.
I just noticed that the other day. Wow there is alot of price difference.
Great vid. I have EXACTLY the same issue. Like you, I'm also off grid. My saw is a Makita. Also found what you did when trying my well pump first go. Had to purchase soft starter to make it work. Max amp draw was 36.5. Should have worked, but it didn't. Go the same run around from Sol Ark. Really wish they would own up to their mistakes instead of putting it on the customer. I'm building as well and don't have time to screw with their excuses. I just went directly to a genny to run my power tools.
Sorry to hear that! We purchased it knowing it had a 66 amp surge for 10 sec. which is way more than enough to start the saw. And again, the saw was working exactly as we expected until the second update… it’s definitely s problem solark needs to address
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid Yea if only. All I got from them was a run around. Excuses, try this, try that.
That’s totally unacceptable, these aren’t cheap’
I went through a similar thing with Harvest Right freeze dryers. It was to the point I was going to have to send it in. I lucked out and had the basic programing on a stick, I had to clear it and reinstall it and it has been fine ever since. But that was after a month of trying different programs, and they didn't want to give me the basic program back.
Definitely tough when you have to fight the fight to make things right. One of those freeze dryers is on our list of future wants!
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid If you get one and need help just get in touch with me.
We will! Thank you 👍
The reason they will never want to do that if they can help is, they do not have the capacity to manage their support services on a different version for all of their customers. I had a software company and we had to have our customers (Banks to manufacturers and much more in the city of London) on the same software version as it included all updates, changes and improvements to the application software and of cours glitches that occurred with our customers proving and supplying their issues through our support centre. It would be a nightmare to not do otherwise. So the Solar Inverter company would need to provide fast solutions and have a means that connects to your smart phone that is in turn connected to their inverter for remote 'fixes' by their support staff. This should be their big sales pitch...we support you online 24/7 as these systems are about life and death in the winters of the northern nations. I live in the Caribbean but my a/c is critical as an oxygen tank for me...
Wow I don't think I woukd have that kind of patience.
LOL, I guess sometimes you do what you have to do! Thanks for watching :-) Headed to your channel to do some catching up!
Great video thanks
The nameplate rating is what the unit is tested to, regardless of what she says on the phone. The unit is rated as follows: single phase 120V rating is PER LEG, so if you only load up one of your phases, it should be able to handle 4800W continuously (indefinitely, assuming 0W on the other phase). If you’re using both phases, then it’s rated to 9000W total with no more than half of that (4500W) per phase.
I’ve had the same unit for years and tested it running about 8000W before I ran out loads to add. And I’m pretty sure I’m on the original firmware as I’ve never asked them for an update.
Nice! Thank you 👍
Yeah, for your usage, the Sol-Ark 15K would have been a much better choice. It is made to run and entire house off-grid. You do mention that.
Since part of the problem was Sol-Ark's fault, you should see if they will trade in your Sol-Ark 12K for the 15K and give you some credit for it. They may be amenable to that. I wish you the best with your off-grid home project.
Agreed. It can’t hurt to ask.
On your solark inverter You have two 120v 'legs' that can handle 4800watts each. You have to try to balance the loads on each 120 volt leg. Alternatively you can get an 240v isolation transformer with a center tap so that you don't have to worry about balancing the 120v loads because with a 240v isolation transformer with a center tap on the secondary it will always automatically balance your 120v inverter legs no matter how unbalanced your 120v loads are on the secondary side of the isolation transformer. The benefit of this is you can use all 9600watts of both legs of your inverter to feed all your 120v loads
I was considering this unit. Sorry you guys are having so many issues. I may now opt for getting EG4's new unit. It sounds like they at least have solid firmware.
I don’t know much about the eg4 but I can agree that the solark firmware definitely needs some work.
Although it does concern me that a firmware update completely changed the usage of this inverter. But I still want to point out that inrush current is different from what. you measured. The clamp meter you have doesn’t do inrush current. You would have to buy the AstroAI Inrush Digital Clamp Meter Multimeter 1000A or another branch that specifically say it can do inrush. Thanks for the video, more research to do as this was one of two inverters I was considering.
FYI, I also noticed the imbalance between L1 and L2 and this has caused Sol Arc to shutdown with some. Some have fixed this with an auto transformer and that might fix your issues as well.
Thanks for the info!
Hey Rich! (From another Rich, ha ha) I am impressed by your patience.
Being a software , firmware and hardware developer and mamager starting in 1973, I have just a few opinions on the state of softwar and firmware today.
In the early days, we worked VERY hard to get it right the first time. After all, sending a field engineer out into the field to fix bad product could be VERY expensive. But things changed. Now it seems weekly software updates are expected and tolerated by end users, management, and programmers. We used to have very rigorous software development methodologies, like NASA. I saw the change to prioritizing features over quality, and don’t like it. Sorry you had to experience all that.
Appreciate that very much and agree that there’s no desire to get it right the first time anymore. Things definitely aren’t what they used to be
Great video!
Thanks
If Sol-Ark had any sense then they should send you a 15k and be done with it!
Good to see all the testing "science"
In the Philippines I have 7 Deye 5kw Hybrid Inverter in parallel charging 12 pcs of 200 amp hour Lifepo4 and no problem, load during the day 10kw to 15kw. Each cost around 55,000 pesos or $1000 = $7,000 For the price of one Sol Ark 15KW $7,000. I use Victron Autotransformer
For split phase balancing cause in a power failure the Deye puts out single phase 220 since I use 110 volts tools and Kurig coffee maker from the US, Victron Autotransformer corrects the 220 to split phase. Sol Ark is Deye
Interesting!! Thanks so much for sharing 👍
I have the exact same Sol-Ark, and we are off grid as well. I started having the exact same issue with the exact same saw. I have learned a few things. As you learned, this is actually a 9kW inverter as far as the loads go. I actually understood this going in, but their advertising is a bit misleading as far as I am concerned. And yes, this 9kW can be achieved along with the surge specs if, and only if, you have 240V balanced loads. Most of us have mostly 120V loads, and they are never perfectly balanced. Each 120V leg on this unit can only handle half of the rated watts and surge capacity. Another thing I learned is that the surge capacity is higher the more solar you have coming in. If you look at the incoming solar on your video, it is always low when you were tripping the inverter, and high when the inverter started the saw. So, working at night or cloudy days is problematic. What I ended up doing was installing an auto-transformer, which perfectly balances the 120V loads across the two legs of the inverter. The transformer does use a small amount of power when in use, so I put it on a separate breaker and switch to be able to turn it off when not needed. In actuality, I rarely turn it off because we usually get plenty of solar input to charge the batteries (may turn it off in deep winter). This has fixed any issues I have had with the inverter tripping.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing 👍
The problem with Sol-Ark is that it don't like unbalance high inductive load. Solution Dry transformer with H1-H3 jumpers on the primary and X2-X3 jumper on the secondary. Feed the transf. from a 240Vac 20Amp Breaker to H1 & H4 Then from secondary X4 to Neutral and X1 to 120Vac Use this output for inductive loads Saws, Pumps, Garage Doors an so on.
Great work on working through it all. Frustrating to watch even but good on ya. Schneider XWpro 6848 have the transformer and are able to take 6,800 constant, 8,500 for 30min 11,000 for 5min and 12,000 for 30sec capable on one leg so even unbalanced keep truck’in. They are little beasts. Long life and no nightmare.
That was our first choice but then they switched to this one as part of the kit because it was supposed to be the top of the line at the time.
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid it was very difficult to make the call on which to go with for sure. Your property sounds super awesome.
@@NewLightEnergy Very true and thank you, we really appreciate that!
I love updating the firmware on all my stuff, but do like someone else to go first if I don't have a test/backup or trial system of my own
Lol. Smart
FWIW, I have a Schneider XW Pro 6848 and it has no problem at all starting big compressors, saws, etc and handling L1/L2 mis-balances. Its a monster. BUT, their firmware is quirky and occasionally erratic, the inverter has a habit of needing reset to factory defaults and reconfigured from scratch every few months, and the tech support is marginal at best. I guess we all can pick our poison...
It’s probably in balance on your legs, if you have very little load on one leg and peak on the other solark is sensitive. You can use an auto transformer and plug 110v high load tools into that and it’ll balance out the load between the legs. I do that for compressor and it works well but not convenient if you want to use tools at various places.
I’ll look into this. Thanks for sharing 👍
Got an aimes 6000w , 240/120v for a 24v system weight is about 90 lbs heavy duty marine rated. Could run with another in parallel to get 12k continuous. No updates or computer programming. Been running solid daily 7 years. Simple is better.
Hello I had the same problem. Was not happy with my sol-ark. I put a Growatt transformer, and i haven't had that problem any more. In your case would get the 11.4k transformer. From signature solar. Good luck. Great video
Thanks. Will definitely look into it👍
David Poz did a great video on the issue. He eventually went with Schneider XVPro inverter.
I actually mentioned his video in this one
In reality the superior method is to make sure you have a balance load from your 120/240 volt AC electrical panel. Use your ampere meter on both power legs - - - | - - - If amperage load is higher on one side of the panel than the other >> redistribute load wiring between breakers to balance the load amperage evenly
Looking into that… 👍
time to get a schneider xw pro :)
It doesn't sound like they were 100% clear on specs or something? I wondered if the update damaged something in the inverter or was the update designed to put a max on voltage/watts /amps? I think i like on grid power wise. I am in a rural N.S. forward thinking town. 3 towns partnered up and co-own hydro, wind and solar installations. So i believe we are 80+ ish % renewable. I will have to look it up. When you are out in the stix you are on your own without cost sharing etc. I can't wait to see what's next. 🙂👍👍👍🇨🇦⚡
Appreciate that. Specs were definitely confusing to us since we aren’t electricians, just everyday people. Oh, and your town sounds pretty awesome!
@21:55 the label shot. I have this unit as well. I knew they were sketchy advertising it as 12K and it was only 9K. What I didn’t realize was that it was 37.5 amp DC. I thought it was 63 amp. Now I find it is only 63 amp connected to the grid. I am trying to run a tiny house (640 sq ft) and a cabinet shop (lots of 220v saws) and also a 220v well. I am grid tied and have a separate panel for the 220v saws. BUT the whole point in spending this much money was t be 100% off grid. I thought I was buying a bigger unit.
It should work as long as your only using one saw at a time. We’re completely off grid and it’s back to working great for us
I’ve had the 12k for three years and run a big 12 inch Makita miter saw all the time. Also have 240v. Well pump, Never had a single shut down ..
And if you watched the video then you know that we were also running a 240 V well pump, and all our saws with no problem until we did the update which was the big mistake. Thankfully they rolled the update back and we’ve been running without shutdowns again since.
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid Yes, I watch the whole video. But I have the newest firmware too and I don't have a problem. I wonder what that's all about. It definitely sounds like you should have the 15K, however. I love the Sol ark, it has been flawless in its operation. At least for my use case
Interesting! The 15k would be nice but wasn’t available when we purchased this.
I've seen similar from foreign engineers with other devices, who have no common sense. We were preparing to fire a missile on a test stand and found its igniter box would trip from just a nearby solenoid actuating (EMI noise). It was supposed to require a robust 5 VDC, 1 A firing signal. Found instead of a level change, their sensing circuit was an AC glitch-sensor and their FPGA code was triggered by a single high reading. The Vietnamese designer in a phone call said they would change the code to require 3-in-row high readings (still an AC-coupled circuit). Most concerning was that the company wasn't concerned that their box could fire the missile when a tech was connecting the cable, if anything nearby caused EMI (cellphone, hand drill, ...). Their igniter box is fielded by the military of several countries.
Re inverters, I installed a small one in a 1978 camping trailer just to run a dorm-type refrigerator off the 12 VDC battery, after the Dometic 3-way ammonia thermo-fridge failed. The fridge was rated 80 W, but motor startup would trip several inverters I tried (200, 300, 500 W), until I tried a 1 kW pure-sine one. Good that Amazon has a free return policy.
New subscriber here. I am interested in hearing if Sol-Ark resolves this problem. All the best from North Texas!
Welcome! They rolled back the firmware and it works like it originally did for us, but other than that I don’t know what their plans are for other updates
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid That sounds about right. Glad they got you working. How is Sol-Ark support to work with? I see other inverters like the EG4 having some issues from time to time. I would like to know as I am making decisions soon to go hybrid at our north Texas country home.
@@brentjohnson6654 SolArk support was excellent actually - no complaints at all.
Even after doing all of your due diligence, and going off-grid, they still own you. Next, digital currency, door locks, car ignitions, etc. and they can shut you down at will. Didn't Amazon's Alexa just lock down some person's house because Alexa didn't like what someone in it said? Enter the new and scary A.I. world. Sorry about your power issues.
It does seem that way. We are just glad we don't keep anything connected to the internet because we heard that they do updates in the middle of the night and people wake up to problems. We don't update phones, computers or anything but I got talked into this one. Never again.Glad it seems to be working now...and yes, there was a story recently about Amazon shutting someones entire smart home down over a claim that turned out to be a total mistake!!! Crazy! and No thank you! Simple life....LOL
I believe that Sol-Ark say that motors and other loads with high initial current draw should be on 240 volt. I think that it maybe a balance issue between the 120 volt outputs. Never the less, they obviously changed the surge tolerances with the software updates. I have never done any updates to my MPP solar 8KW off grid inverter and it's great with surge currents too. It delivers a true 8KW and I have seen it run loads over this at times. All the best.
It's tripping due to leg imbalance of the surge load. Saw surged leg 1 to 30.57 amps while leg 2 was at 1.2 amps. Bad firmware parameter causing shutdown fault
That does make sense. Thanks 👍
Need a soft start to put between the wall socket and the saw.
It’s working fine without it
i have had my DIY solar for 3 years now.....the industry is full of these"got ya" moments. Most of the time it is just that there is so much information that a detail is left out because most never will need to know. I was lucky and started small so my problems were small, the learning curve is steep but this is an emerging tech and industry so there are growing pains.
Couldn’t agree more…. We went from powering our trailer with 120 watt solar to this… definitely a steep learning curve👍
You have all or most of your loads on one leg.
Balance your load in the panel and this will stop regardless of firmware.
You can also install an Auto Transformer $300.
Stay away from Growatt.
The 18k PV eg4 is good.
I have been an electrical engineer for 28 years.. I know your answer.. Yes the firmware did it because they are trying to keep the Delta amperage lower to not overheat the heatsinks for greater longevity. I would say 90% of most loads have a smooth amperage rise and a smooth amperage fall upon power up. Motors are different especially saws that use dynamic braking to stop the blade. You will get a very high amperage return Spike. My answer to you is don't use a saw that has dynamic breaking. So the unit will shut down if it sees an 18% difference between L1 & L2 loads. Since you're running 115v that is only one load side.. anything with a high amp draw you should be running 220 v.
Solark used your current home setup to test the firmware upgrade. All that nonsense they had you do was to record the results with the programmers and engineers in the company. Essentially, they made you an employee of the company to run tests on the firmware. Crazy!!
As a software engineer, I can confirm that we sometimes do this. :shrug: Google does it at a massive scale; a variant of it is called A/B testing.
If you're after high surge capability, you should have purchased a low frequency, transformer based inverter instead of a high frequency, transformerless inverter. None of the high frequency, transformerless inverters on the market today, last very long. The MOSFETs and capacitors used in high frequency inverters simply cannot take repeated exposures to high surge loads such as full sized refrigerators, large power tools, portable AC units, or large microwave ovens. Without an iron core, copper wound transformer to absorb the back EMF and high surge demands of these high inductance loads, typically after a couple of year's worth of use these high frequency, transformerless inverters will become a non-repairable brick.
You might be able to start and run some high surge loads when high frequency inverters are new but every time you fire up or shut down that inductive load, you're shortening the life of the MOSFETs in your these inverters. They also run much hotter than low frequency, transformer based inverters which makes the components such as capacitors, diodes, resistors and ICs that are used in high frequency inverters, far more prone to early failure.
This is especially true regarding the amount of electro-mechanical wear on the inverter's capacitors. Inverters rely heavily on capacitors to provide a smooth power output at varying levels of current; however the electrolytic capacitors that are used in inverters have a limited lifespan and age much faster than dry components. Capacitors are also extremely sensitive to the high temperatures found in high frequency inverters. Capacitor electrolytes evaporate faster at higher temperatures which can reduce the life of these components.
Another major consideration with high frequency, transformer free inverters is safety. All it takes is for one of the MOSFETs in the inverter's H-Bridge circuit to short to ground or the control circuitry to fail, and a high frequency inverter can send dangerous, high voltage, high amperage DC current straight to your connected AC loads which will not only damage most AC appliances but can also set those AC appliances on fire.
Another consideration is that the vast majority of high frequency inverters are expensive to repair. At a typical shop rate of $125 per hour in the US, with no schematic and limited parts availability, it won't make economic sense to even attempt to repair one of these units. Once the FETs have fried and have taken the inverter's PCB with it, (And trust me, sooner rather than later, they will fry if exposed to high inductance loads.) they basically become a brick.
A far better alternative is to invest a little more money and purchase a hybrid, low frequency, transformer based inverter charger. Your system will last far, far longer, it will run much cooler and can easily power high surge loads without being damaged.
Thank you so much for the info. Not much we can do now but we will definitely do something different in the future if and when the need arises.
Geez good luck I have 15k did same thing after update still trying to get it working after 2 weeks. I would balance 120v loads on both legs.
We tried everything with the company but nothing made a difference except rolling back firmware. Hope it is fixed soon for you 👍
@@Floridaoff-grid We rolled back one firmware update and back to using the 12k with no problems. Still happy with it, but if the 15k was available when we made the purchase we would have gone with that one. Works for us because we chose all our appliances very carefully.
Rich & Cathy, I have a 12k and am experiencing the same problems. I have not requested a firmware rollback but considering it.
Based on the comments, it appears one solution that resolve several issues would be to install a transformer. This appears to solve this issue and protect the system from the other issues mentioned in the comments.
What do you think?
Thanks for your video!
Mike from Fbg, TX
Sorry to hear that. We purchased the unit and it was working exactly as we expected for six months. The updates were what caused a problem for us. Once they rolled it back we haven’t had any problems. Everything is now back to working as we expected when we purchased it so buying a transformer isn’t necessary.
That dreadful beep on inverters is like the blue screen of death on Windows. You have a bad day (sometimes week) every time that happens.
I have had new firmware mess things up before but nothing as vital as this example.
Interesting that 3k watts is lost to charging, they don't mention that often.
The blue screen brings back bad memories 😁
Sometimes when talking to customer service no matter who it feels like you’re educating them rather than the other way around
Hey guys, sorry you're going through such an electro-nightmare. Is there any way Sol Ark can just dial-back the firmware update and restore it back to what was working? Be well. Edit: (never mind - I asked the question before reaching the end of your video and you answered).
We asked to roll it back right away but I guess they needed to know it was the firmware and not the saw
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid, some will always resist admitting fault.
Just another thought. What is the lenth and awg of the extension cord being used to power the chop saw? Looks a little on the thin side which would add to your current load.
Thanks, we did check that and even tried using No extension cord at all… made no difference
Sol ark initially had issues with surges and leg imbalances, I though the solved that issue
Any big motor load on half a split phase is going to be a problem, you have to oversize your inverter, this is engineering 101.
A 240 to 120V transformer will solve your problem for certain appliances, most homes have all their big loads on 240V anyway.
If you want to run 10A motors or more on 120V that's on you.
Also Get a soft start for all your big motors.
Maybe you should watch the video…
I highly doubt 12k inverter is enough for your house. Maybe you need to add another 12k inverter or just get the 15k. If I want to go off grid, I think the best option now is the sol ark 30k.
It’s enough for now, only because we carefully chose every appliance for its efficiency. Thank goodness we did that though because otherwise we’d have some serious issues with how misled we were by the company who sold it to us!
Could be more of a power factor issue with the saw not so much as an overload. Using a heater is a resistive load with a unity power factor and would not duplicate the issue with the inductive load (Saw motor). Either way, unless there was an issue with the old firmware mfr should not have made this change.
I hear sol-arks don’t like high inductive 120v loads. Better to divide over both legs (240v) see if you can add on panel so it hits both legs with breaker
What is the wire size to the power tools ? If there is ANY 14g wire.... Remove it. Even the extension cords. The imbalance in the SolArcs 120v VS 120v (1/2 of 240) is to great. The updates appeared to have made the unit more sensitive to the differences. 09;45, Did we see arc spin around the Dewalt motors armature? If so, that not a good sign. There maybe several factors at play here. Run the saw and another load at the same time ON the other leg of the 240 to keep the draw a bit more balanced. Davids link is good. I think David is very clear on some flaw that may need worked on by SA.
It’s all 10 so we’re good👍 thanks
Breakers are pretty slow to react.
This is a typical 12-Kw Split phase setup aka 240v@50A with its limitations. That is, it is going to supply 0 to 12 kW at for 220 V loads or only 2x 0 to 6 kW for 120 V loads. It is like having 2 120V circuits at half power. This means that running any 120 V load on one branch it will be limited to 6000 W or 120V@50A continues for temporary loads. You never have access to more than 50A on a branch. So 62A on a branch by itself on startup must be below the peak power allowed of ½ of 12 kW not the full 12 kW. A DC representation of the AC split output circuit is having 2 120v@50A batteries connected in series. You can see this configuration providing 2 possible loads of 120v@50A or 1 load of 240v@50A, no possibility of 120V@100A without rewiring, the same applies to the split-phase AC, throw you can mix and match. For bigger load above 6 kW, you are stuck in rewiring for 220 V to share the load on the 2 120V halves.
That’s pretty much what we thought but the company tells us that’s not correct… they said max amps is 37.5. 3000 watts is dedicated to the batteries so really only 9000 watts. That’s why at 240 it’s only 37.5 amps. The math works. That leaves only 4500 for 120 volts. That’s why we feel misled…
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid
Tools, like bench saws can usually be connected in 120 V or 240 V at half the current. At 240 V you will have access to the full 9000 W instead of 4500 W, as a work around.
I will look into how to do this, thanks!
Sol-ark works great for me,
Working great for us too👍
I'm an expert in the field for more than three decades.
Yes, it is the firmware, but it's also the batteries. The voltage drop in the batteries under sudden load tells the inverter there's a problem, when there is none as shown by your use of a full load then starting the saw.
But without loads, the inverter sees a huge spike on the battery voltage and shuts down.
I bought the same inverter, also bought a monstrous battery bank so as to avoid this issue. I think you'll be fine in the future, just be sure to have a small load running before starting moderate loads.
Hopefully Solark will work out the issue soon.
Makes sense. We’ve been talking about adding another battery to our bank. But so far it’s been working great since the rollback. Appreciate the info . Thanks
Didn't David remove his sol-ark for that very reason. My water furnace has a high surge so I guess Sol-ark is out for me unless I spend the $1500 for a soft start so may as well go for an old style heavy inverter made for inductive loads.
US Customs records for Ningbo Deye Inverter Technology, a supplier based in China. shows 266 container sized shipments to Portable Solar Llc Dba Sol-ark Llc in Allen, Texas. I thought Sol-Ark has been claiming for years that their inverters are made in the U.S.A. Have they been misleading us all this time?
Inrush current is usually measured in milliseconds. Shouldn't even be an issue
I feel your pain. The sales rep should have explained better the true capacity of the units being 4000kw per leg but that's still not even the truth. It 4000 VA which is a unit of measure associated to AC power along with power factor. I would guess the real world kw is 3200kw at 0.8 power factor.
Thank you. That’s extremely deceptive of them.
@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid
I wouldn't go as far as disrespective but if the poor sales rep doesn't have some degree or training in electrical engineering then you can't blame them. Who you can blame is sol-ark who need to improve their sales rep training and marketing technical data. I would include the following
Max step loading and different inverter loads
Max surge load with duration when the inverter is already loaded at 0%, 25%, 75%
Inverter Over load trip characteristics if it's B, C, D or even K
But as I think about it, all of this should have been explained to the customer by the Installers and not sol-ark. If you take it up on your self to install your own unit then some of the fault will fall on you. Crappy firmware upgrade excluded
What version are you running now? Based on the dates I am assuming it is 6222 with the issue?
Good point, we are currently running 6983. I’m not sure what version wasn’t working for us, but they rolled back to this one and all seems good so far.
What firmware did you roll back to? I have the same inverter with the same issue.
Currently running MCU 6983
@@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid thank you!
Very welcome
David Poz and many others did a video about this Solark inverter that be doing the same exact thing . Check out David Pos and there may be a solution to this , maybe even getting a low frequency inverter transformer based inverter will handle large surges better 😊😊then an expensive high frequency inverter . May the solar be with you .
We actually spoke about David poz in the video because his issue was a little different than ours. But we appreciate the suggestion 👍😊
If David Pos had replaced the MCU board with a HW 1.2 board, his problem would have gone away too. It is very frustrating I know. Imagine how excited I was to see this problem on 24 units. 😢 This is an easy fix. Turn off the system, remove and replace the board, power it on, update the firmware, and you are done. 😃
We’re definitely looking into this again. Thanks
What version of FW was faulty? I’d like to make sure that’s not what’s in my unit.
I honestly don’t know the version, but it was the update that came after what we’re running now which is MCU version 6983
It’s per leg. I bet it’s 66amps total or 33 amps per leg. Plus resistance added from long cable run with splices.
We thought that too but we’re told it doesn’t matter.
Yep, probably should have got the 15k in a full off-grid scenario. The other alternative off-grid would be a bunch of sma sunny islands in a 4-stack configuration. You could do 100 amps continuous on each leg at 120v with that scenario using the 6048s. They are getting inexpensive now.
The 15 k wasn’t out when we purchased this one. Thanks for the info 👍
I have both systems, but since I am grid connected I am going with solark for the peak shaving features. Going to be selling my sunny islands. They are basically 120v inverters at 22000 watts peak each at 120v and 50a continuous. It's what most people used off-grid 8-10 years ago for dependable electricity. Sorry to hear about the troubles, sounds like a software update must have reduced the inrush current peak alarms. Maybe solark had some failures and this was their solution? @@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid
They never said what the last update was exactly, but that’s definitely what it did and tolling it back solved it. Still under warranty since it was them who fixed it. Still like the 12k, no more problems. The 15 k would be better though.
Well, as someone who spent 16+ years doing R&D and development for a wireless software company, updates always have consequences. Our Joke was never trust a programmer with a screwdriver LOL. @@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid
😁😂
What are the firmware versions that you have on the 12K now with it working? If you don't mind, I would like to know the MCU version as well as the comms version. (I'm sure you know this, but those versions can be found in the first menu page after tapping the gear icon from the home screen.)
The problem version for us was the 6222 and when they rolled me back it went to the 6983 version we are currently running.
@CreatingASimplerLifeOffGrid OK, thank you for that info. What about the comms version? Are you currently running 143F? Or is the comms version older as well?
Just yesterday we upgraded a customer's system to a Sol-Ark 15k because of the 12k overloading. I'd like to change firmware on it to exactly what you are running and test it at our shop to see if that fixed the issue.
1430-0717 is the coms we are running. Interested in knowing what you learn please
Ok, thanks! And sure thing, I'll comment back here on that!