I feel for the French but the Australian government want to get the best subs that money can buy. And clearly nuclear powered subs are the way to go for Australia.
The subs the French were going to provide are already nuclear. The biggest expense in making them for Australia was in re engineering them to be diesel.
In any case, this bellicose stance of the Aussies is unnecessary, especially when a remote country of 25 million population, with high tax rates, should spend its limited monies on better things.
@@kayem3824All the huge investment in nuclear weapons has actually prevented the cold war from ever going hot. The most peaceful thing to do is to make war untenable for the enemy.
@@dantos1991 But some countries have been waging war. In addition, why do they have huge conventional arsenals still? This seems to be psychological. This remote place wants to be taken seriously.
France has no historical respect for Australia. They must have short memories. France was testing nuclear weapons in Australia’s backyard in the South Pacific in the 1990s. They also sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand. So France, when you talk about friendship, have a look at your own behaviour of the past.
Don't forget the French were in full support of blocking those vaccine shipments to Australia earlier this year. They call Australia "Allies" but certainly don't treat them like an Ally.
This French “betrayal” is absolutely delicious. Don’t act like the French wouldn’t do the exact same thing if they could steal a massive contract away from the Brits or Americans. 🤣🤣
The context of aukus was never nuclear propulsion subs. Everything fair in war but US just abandoned Afghanistan. The best tech may not always translate to real partnership.
@@gardensofthegods I'd somehow "heard" Germany and Sweden, but apparently it was Germany cooperating with Japan who lost the deal to France so now France is losing the deal to the US. Apparently, there was also a beef between Biden and Macron over BioNTech...
Because France still has overseas territories in the Pacific. New Caledonia is part of France and they have representatives in the French parliament. In their most recent referendum they voted to remain part of France. The U.K.'s empire in contrast is finished, so yes going on about it is just nostaligia...
@@josephyates9936 the commonwealth shows that many places we used to conquer and rule, still want to be tied to us in some way. Because we’re great and France is, well France.
WuMao has arrived. Your population is aging before it gets wealthy. Your real estate sector is collapsing live. Your nation has absolutely no friends anywhere on the planet and is watching the world ally against you. You'll be back to famine and melting cooking pots to make steel soon enough.
@Armandpx if you want to talk about backstabbing the French are no exception. you're just mad because France is taking a backseat to other nations. if you can't start building a project after 5 years there is no deal
Been holding a grudge all these decade's haven't we? Pop some ecstacy (or whatever it is you guys are getting high on these days 🙄), you'll feel better
240 years ago the French Navy defeated the British Navy in Chesapeake Bay, paving the way for the victory at Yorktown and the independence of the United States
France is a declining industrial power, subs deal is an example, there was delays in design and manufacture and Australia moved on. French scientists use to be the best at vaccine manufacture, now totally failed on covid vaccine, the new nuclear reactors design failure, UK still waiting for hinckley point decade of delays, always cost overrun on French projects.
@@benoitcransac2178 Cool so you going to lower the cost of those subs back down to 50 billion? going to get them done on time? and going to have them made in Australia? After all, that's the contract that was signed on.
Hey Frenchies. Australia has been very unhappy with it's contract with the French sub builders. It has been very embarrassing for the Australian government. So the truth is that an unhappy customer has found another supplier
you signed the contracts! your trains don't even run 7 days a week in Sydney! You bought ferries from Indonesia that don't fit under the bridges there! Id say its more we've got a customer with serious cognitive deficits & now you are going to seriously piss off your number one trade partner, China, see your economy dive & complain you didnt know!
@@jimimased1894 see Australia cares more about freedom than it does its relationship with China. Unlike the french apparently. Much love to Australia, from the usa. Enjoy the subs!
@@jimimased1894 you are pretty poorly informed. Since China began its sanctions commodity prices have risen and Australias balance of trade figures have improved out of sight. China is paying more for less. When they banned our coal China couldnt even provide enough power to service is industry or keep the lights on, they banned people from using electric heaters in the dead of winter. All the CCP did was hurt its own reputation and its own people.
@UV Gardener I'm flattered by your keen interest in my person. I've had my account for years (10? 15?). I'm not operating a news channel, so no, I'm not publishing videos myself. Paranoia much? Ah, I see, a small Taiwanese flag made you see red! Who would've thought of that? Have you considered therapy, as in anger management? Medication could help, too.
240 years ago the French Navy defeated the British Navy in Chesapeake Bay, paving the way for the victory at Yorktown and the independence of the United States
imagine this - you make deal with a contractor to build a house and 5 years later not 1 brick has been laid and your cost for the project DOUBLED yet the contactor is laissez faire and needs to take his regular summer months off the last 5 years of negotiations, didn't sign the contract till 2 years after beginning talks about the project and someone offers a better deal with the newest in environmental control systems instead of dated electronics. what would you think?
The deal with France was originally $50 Billion dollars for the 12 subs, this price crept up to $90 Billion over just a few years. Australia is getting a better deal, 8 nuclear powered subs are far more effective than the 12 non nuclear French subs. There range and capabilities of nuclear powered subs are exactly what is needed by the Australians.
It was 90 billion Australian dollar ... Australia told about that deal in 2016 ..and due to that naval group( french company) refused small deals from other countries ..so it is a big loss for naval group ( sorry for my English😅)
Well australia asked for a non nuclear submarine version of a nuclear submarine.. In effect designing a new conventional submarine based nuclear submarines; that's a tall order if not ridiculously absurd.. I recognize there's more to it than that ; but it's a strategic communication failure from both France and Australia..
In the beginning the Australians were not in favor of nuclear submarines for political/environmental reasons. They asked the french to switch to diesel. The Australians are just siding with a bigger power because the political scene has changed since 2016 when the contract was signed. The French have seen numerous humiliations from the US starting with the war with Iraq...look where it took the world 20 years later...Bottom line: the Anglo saxon cannot be trusted by its allies and it will turn against them at one point
@@bridokram The french can’t talk about not being trusted. The amount of backtracking and stabbing in the back the french have inflicted on the British is numerous. France is just upset that it is being treated how it often treats others
@@luckyluke1503 at 50 billion not 90 billion. We were financially played before this got off the ground. When the price changed why it is not a matter of trust. It is economics and re assessment of value.
AUkUs formed an alliance Why ? IT IS IMPERATIVE that no EurAsian challenger emerges capable of dominating EurAsia and thus of also challenging America - Zbignew Brzezinski Nicholas J Spykman
@@visassess8607 It has nothing to do with red manace communism capitalism freedom or democracy it has everything to do with this: USA has only one interest: IT IS IMPERATIVE that no EurasiaN challenger emerges capable of dominating EurasiA and thus of also challenging America - Nicholas J Spykman Zbignew Brzezinski etc.
I agree partially. The French are also a pacific nation and they are worried than one of their partner in the region is scrapping an alliance all of the sudden, whitout notice. I said they may as well do something with China now, since NATO doesn’t mean anything apparently.
The French including this program have been desperately trying to make this look like a solely US-AUS deal, trying to downplay the UK is as obvious as it is pathetic. No-one has determined who will be providing the design or reactor for Australia, in fact Australia's own info page had an Astute class boat outline on its front...
@@theflyingspaghettimonster6462 then why is the UK part of this deal? I wouldn’t be surprised if they bought the Astute. UK type 26 was also chosen so the UK and Australia have a solid industrial partnership to build on.
Ironic the France feels threatened on China in South China Sea, does it not remember their colonialism of South East Asia and how Vietnamese kicked them out. Stick to Europe and let the Asian nations deal with it. These other Anglo nations love war.
America got kicked out of Vietnam as well. America is the main war monger of the Anglo nations, the UK just tags along with them mostly but contirbutes comparatively little to the actual war effort. Agree with western powers staying out of Asia.
Better still - check out the French's reaction. They are absolutely beside themselves livid how they were strung along by antipodean sheep farmers at the behest of the Five Spies.
Well yes, and France is not a pacific power. The US had to defend French territory in Polynesia, and elsewhere, and that includes in France during World War II.
@@ascended5485 Ouin ouin ouin, les méchants Français, ouin ouin areuuuh ! On fait comme toutes les puissances font: du business. Et en plus on crée des emplois sur place . Alors arrête de pleurnicher comme une petite pucelle et mets-toi au boulot ! Et pour te faire plaisir, sache que la présence française ne représente pratiquement plus rien en Afrique. Walou, nada, niente, nichts. Tu dois nous confondre avec les Chinois.
@@francois-xavieresperance5007 We all know it is not true, ask Mali, Cote d'ivoire, ... etc and all the countries that are still paying France the colonization tax
@@Optimus-Prime-Rib Australia requested that France retrofit their submarines with diesel when their expertise was in nuclear power, so yes, you are a no brainer
@@Optimus-Prime-Rib crappy? Diesel is not crappy, they are just suited to coastal defence and are better than nuclear at that. Nuclear is better for longer distance
Future future news: America undermines France and sells THEIR nuclear technology to Taliban and then decides to wage War on Nuclear Terror for 20 years 😂!
@@theflyingspaghettimonster6462 probably the whole submarine Astute since the US wouldn’t need to include the UK otherwise if the aussies purchased the Virginias.
@@TheBooban could be some Dreadnaughts as well ;) Considering BAE is already building up the shipyard in Adelaide for the Type 26 Frigates they can add some buildings..
Well due to significant issues with the Attack Class project, in Feb the Australian Govt. started looking for alternatives , June/July the Aussie govt gave a Naval Group a deadline of Sept. to provide an acceptable cost quote. Seems either the quote wasn't acceptable, or provided on time. Now France is claiming this proof that "Europeans" cannot rely on external powers for their equipment and defence needs. And they call us Brits, opportunistic. Hard to have any respect for French Govt credibility at the moment.
LOL, I giggle as an American watching the Aussie thinks we can do better than the French. Our CA Bullet Train went from $20 billion US to over $100+ billion after 20 years and still rising with no end in sight. Thank you for your business mates!
Still it is the US or French. US has better tech it is as simple as that 14 times the size 6 times the people and it inherited the naval genes from the Anglo_Saxon. Plus the French did nothing against a rising threat like China
@@popeofchina8551 '..naval genes from the Anglo_Saxon' ..who were routed by France's Lafayette in Chesapeake Bay 240 years ago to the day which created the United States of America. And then America and Britain go and celebrate by stabbing the French in the back!! Diminishing France's role will have profoundly negative consequences for the western military alliance. Notice how the Kremlin is very quiet lately. This is an enormous victory for their softly softly catchee monkey approach in the face of western provocations, sanctions and threats. This sub deal is a disaster for the west and will be the catalyst for a new alliance of SCO and now to some extent Europe with France leading the way squaring up to the Five EYES (with Australia being the one-eyed cyclop).
Diesel is more silent. Also if US does not want france to sell nucluar subs to taiwan, they can stuff it now. There is no moral nucluar highground by this.
@@doemijmaarfriet You could be right. But diesel fuel has to be constantly replaced and the drilling and refining itself releases CO2. Nuclear releases no CO2 and generates for extended periods. Of course, each nation has to abide by the politics at home.
@@stephenbailey9969 you think military think about the greengases when talking about war? Usa filled irak with low radiation uranium bullets till people got cancer. What about Abraham tanks, this jet fighter tanks are anything but environment friendly. They wamt to win a future war... hell with the environment.
France has both nuclear and diesel powered subs. Are you idiotic to the point of not understanding the projects weren't the problem but the alliances were?
Contract costs went from $50bn to $90bn and the company was failing to deliver. Australia has strategic concerns and the French company was failing to deliver.
@@CollieJenn The French nation owes a huge debt to Australia worth far more then 50 or 90 billion AUD. That debt was made by the blood of the many, many thousands of young Australians who travelled from the other side of the world to defend France during WW1. France knew there were problems with massive costs overrun but in typical French style they are too arrogant to admit it.
@@CollieJenn Yeah the war again. 295,000 Australians fought on the Western Front defending France. Nearly 60 percent of those became casualties of which 49,000 died and remember Australia had a total population of 5 million people at that time.
@@KW-hk2jd - It is about the formal declaration of an "Anglosphere Military Alliance" against China... which would include Nuclear Submarines along with many more other nuclear & non-nuclear weapons and components. Australia's balancing act (between US & China) is over. It has now become the formal staging base for any military action by US (and its spare tire UK) on China. Other non-Anglosphere allies like Japan, etc will form an outer layer of alliance against China. In my opinion this was a good move for all adversaries of China including Japan, India and even EU. But is also a stark reminder to France that it is not a part of the Core Group led by US (Anglosphere) which probably it thought it was...
@@timmo491 Charles has a point. Even after Zhukov took over Berlin, Britain requested Soviet Union to allow their representation in Berlin. This was just a show. So even now Britain must have been pestering the US to include them in order to project to the world that they matter.
@charles haha ridiculous loser. The submarines will be the Astue class British class which is the most advanced in the world. You are so green with envy it is seeping out of every statement you make lol
American here. You guys were asked very nicely at the G7 to change your policy on China. You didn’t and we went a different direction. We’re very serious about protecting our Australian allies. We have a shared history in war and our people are very close. I wish the French would stop being weird about English speaking alliances. We love you guys but when CANZUK needs our help move out of the way.
Face it. Naval Group screwed up this project. The cost was double after 6 years and they missed two contract milestones. They were warned repeatedly. Australia had series of exits in the contract and they lost confidence and took up that option. Yes, there was a new strategic imperative, but France messed it up.
Two things: Back in 2016, the French had nuclear submarines to sell but the Aussies chose the diesel / electric option. Also, the Aussies are claiming that timing is an issue when the american subs order will take another decase to be delivered. In the meantime, China is certainly expanding its influence in the indo-pacific region.
@football ⚽ theatre Australia cancels a deal with France and favors one with the US/UK and that’s why France should leave the EU? Sorry but I can’t follow that logic…
The French should have been more upfront about how stupid the Aussie hierarchy is for wanting to convert a Nuclear powered Sub into a diesel electric boat.
The french don't have china sailing around it's border the french have to understand we can't just wait while china's navy gets bigger. The Australian people need protection too. Here soon they can we can lease our old subs to Australia.
@@diegoflores9237 I'm a Brit and I don't long for a British empire. And I'm glad we have an alliance with Australia. It's not an empire it's supporting a brother.
@@quoniam426 The US isn't even going to build the subs the UK is...what the US gets is basing rights and access to support infrastructure for nuclear attack subs in Australia
If the French thrown their toys out of the pram over Brexit, they might have been invited to the party - maybe not the whole thing, but they could have shared a canapé
@@kaboonali5466 Thats just not true. The British have a great deal of influence in the UK/US relationship. The USA badly needs the UK to get nations like AUS, CAN and India on board. The UK holds far more power and sway within the commonwealth nations than the USA has and thats what makes the UK such an important partner to the US.
@@alistairbolden6340 That’s is simply not true, if it were the case then the British establishment and government wouldn’t have cried about the US not consulting it on the Afghan withdrawal.
@@alistairbolden6340 I am all about the UK and love this alliance. I do think the UK is a very significant player but to say stuff like “the US needs the UK” or needs them to get “alliances with India, Canada, and Australia” is not true. Don’t let that ego get too high now
Macro talking of EU establishing their military therefore abandoning Nato, and the Chinese bullying Australia and taking over international seaways, it's a wise move for the AUKUS to plan a strategy French are not to be trusted.
If the Australian government compromised national security on the basis of 'upsetting' the French, they would not be fit to govern. Clearly nuclear powered submarines are a better technology - on the basis of effectiveness and cost.
@@doemijmaarfriet the french managed to balloon a 25 billion dollar contract to 90 billion without even building a single ship. Nothing had happened and the cost had trebled.
Simple. The French do not possess 11 carriers and 290 ships in its fleets. Europeans seldom act together and timely although partnerships with Europe is desired and necessary. Give France a base or two in Australia for their fleet and subs.
Since this was announced Americans and the UK finally show their real face. Me as a german never liked you anyways, so basicly i Hope Nato is finally over and you guys can fight your stupid wars alone.
The deal between France and Australia was for 90% of submarine construction to be done in Australia, by oversight that was left out of the contract. Once the contract was signed, the French immediately reduced that to 60% with no guarantee it wouldn't be reduced further. Imagine the French response if Australia had withdrawn their ambassador claiming a breach of trust. Things only got worse with the deal, delays and cost blowouts. Australians have been talking about getting out of this deal for years, the suggestion that this was unexpected is dishonest.
Which is absurd: over 90% of the value of modern submarines is in the software not the bits and things. It is impossible for another to replicate what various specialist corporations have spent often half a century developing. Austrian my have 90% of the welding like we did with Collins class submarines. We brought all the proprietary knowledge from overseas
The Australians made the right decision as exemplified by how childish France is acting, no country wants to be tied to on national defense with a nation like that. The US considers France an ally but not a strategic or reliable one.
superior tech.... why are the French so surprised? Good on Australia and serve the French right for being too slow! do you go with a mini-power called France or a super alliance called USA / UK?
Most likely, when the deal was made in 2016 (5 years after Fukushima), Nuclear submarines was proposed but dismissed over Diesel-ones. But now that the US and China are engaging in a weapon race, they changed their mind. (Also, Mini-power would not be the choice of word i would do. But you're free to do so.)
Yeah I think he's nominally Australian only. Clearly has very neo-marxist/French/anti-western/anglophone views and probably hasn't visited his "homeland" in a while.
Yes, he's not one of us Aussies. If he is, he's from the very Left side of Centre and thus, no grounding in practical matters surrounding national security, defence and military considerations. His type went on work strikes on the wharves in Australia during WWII when we had the Japanese breathing down our throats and bombing our northern zones.
Pray to God for us Ukrainians, pray for Ukraine. We will win! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes! They won't get through! We are alive.God is for Ukraine!
Frrnch companies should change how they do business. Oz made what was a natural choice to them. When do the french ever buy defense platforms from other countries??
So why did Australia sign the deal in the first place? At some point it made sense. Then at another point it didn't. The Australian public need to know what changed. Scott Morrison even if I was being kind is incompetent at best and a fool at worst. So after the royal commission we will know. Because it's that important.
Naval group delayed unacceptably (leaving a defence gap), put the price up 80%, didn’t honour the local labour content agreement (upskilling local production was an explicit requirement of AU)… they might like to think the contract was stolen but Naval group walked away from it.
@@pp-bb6jj Yes because we have had a nuclear ban in place since 1998 and only due to the threat that China has become in the last 12 months has made our gov rethink that ban.
@@pp-bb6jj I read somewhere a difference between the French and UK/USA design is the French reactors need to be refuelled while the others are fuelled "for life" (with highly enriched uranium, which I also suspect Australia wouldn't want to directly handle). Maybe Australia is looking for a ready for use reactor to be returned for disposal and entirely avoid needing any local nuclear work?
For us the rest of the world don’t care what west pact and their agreement would be. We would say good luck but us Asia, Africa, Middle East want to be left alone and we want them to say good luck too
If you were suddenly given a new choice what would you do…. buy the new Barracuda class nuclear submarines, or continue with the Baguette class diesel? 🥖🥖 😂
"Dead in the water", mainly because the French were so difficult to deal with, major delays and substantial cost blow-outs. Who wouldn't want a nuclear sub over an underwater diesel Citroen! Talking about trust... Vichy France sound familiar!
Stop spreading shit. We french people have nuclear submarine. Australia wanted a diesel version of our submarine... So we were willing to this for them. We were supposed to provide them technology knowledge to build it by themselves. This is not something you do quickly because it was all about building an industry.... Now Australia has the aukus deal but did you read between lines??!! There is no deal, scheduled delivery of submarine just talk...... Maybe you will receive your first submarine in 2100. This was not a professional move from Australia they didn't tell nothing to france about their plan. There are thousand australian engineer who were learning in France. Even them learnt about this info in the media do you think this is normal.....
@@tenshinhantenshinhan3540 Don't bother my friend. The vast majority of this comment section is either "haha french take that ! lol" or "french lazy, undereqquiped and irrelevant, remember vichy".
Delays and over budget. If you can get the same thing somewhere else with the subs being built in the buying nation and nuclear propulsion technology transfer, they would be fools to refuse the opportunity.
I love Australia, the UK and France. But relying on a guy like Biden, who blows with the wind, is foolish. The people who elected Biden won't fight China and neither will those in the military who watched the clown show in Afghanistan. I lived in Sydney during the first ANZAC day parade after the last WWI vet had died. Watching the veterans of Tobruk, the Solomons and New Guinea - where my own father fought - was a moving experience. As was the War Memorial in Canberra and my visit to the beaches of Normandy. Once again Biden's conduct was dishonorable.
@@shielahaberecht3417 lmao don’t be so stupid as to dismiss everything he is saying, The EU and the CCP have been cooperating for ages. The EU is chinas largest trading partner, and the CPP is the EU’s second largest.
why are we talking like france do not have nuclear submarine? if it is about a change in requirement, why can't france sell nuclear submarine instead? it is obvious the deal was design to deny france the business than because france could not provide the capabilities.
It wasn't about the capability , it was about the price The price was insane ! Besides France didn't have the capability to meet these new China requirements They are going for a real attack like astute or Virginia not a simply a bigger aip
France is behind both the British and Americans in submarine technology. France is becoming increasingly obnoxious (which they excell at) and irrelevant
In the long run, this may be a great thing for French, because this get the French off the warmonger's bandwagon which is heading to a cliff. Maybe it's time that the French and the EU get true independence from the declining evil empire.
France has very little idea of what is happening in Australia and china. It could be that the EU is discussing with China for a trade deal and even more that The EU is intent in creating their own EU army and using that in the indo pacific which also means the EU is trying to replace Nato which the USA backs fully.The UK since leaving the EU is intent on building a g;obal UK will exercise their options and have joined the USA and Australia in an agreement to supply nuclear submarines to Australia.
Agree. If the EU was able to, slim as chances are, assert itself and build a cohesive foreign policy and back it up with a European army, it would change the global geopolitical landscape instantly. NATO would be over. Frankly, a cohesive Europe is everyone's nightmare, thus the big players (US, Russia, China) activity on our beautiful little continent. The only obstacle is German war- and other Europeans colonial guilt. Go beyond that and we could see Europe at its fullest potential.
The French said that they didn’t understand why Australia didn’t ask for the standard variant of the submarine - the nuclear variant. Not sure if that was an option in 2012 or not
@MATURITY IS RARE The French should not complain about being back stabbed. You forgot how France canceled the Mistral deal with Russia? 🤣 There are no "friends" in geopolitics.
@MATURITY IS RARE Right- Most notably the construction of what we call the "Queen Elizabeth Class" aircraft carriers. France was originally planning to have their own version built, based off of the British carriers, but withdrew in 2013 after throwing a tantrum about the fact that it couldn't have a nuclear reactor for propulsion. France is only ever committed to treachery-like the downing of the stealth bomber over Bosnia, and the US cut you out of the loop for giving the flight coordinates to the enemy.
@15:25 "There is only one other great western naval power in the Pacific, besides US, and that is France".... That's a joke, right? Given that it could barely deal with Turkey in the Mediterranean in the summer, can anyone believe they could confront modernized PLN in the South China Sea or the Taiwan Strait.
France has never gotten out of their pre colonial mindset. They still think they are the shit but they are having a difficult time dealing with reality. An Oldman who is refusing to accept he is old.
yes, totally agree with you...for those who are living in the Europe sunshine and water, the never know how the ugly face of the 14B EMPIRE , the darkness of SC ocean and the deepness of the Pacific Ocean.
@gaulehero How much do you really think you know about PLAN that you are commenting in this manner? PLAN has numerous loopholes which I can't write here in public? If you're mainlander HAN then even more so! PLAN has issues and that's why they are furious about the AUKUS deal that is about SSN in lieu of SSBN. Did you get that?
And yet the are smart enough not to sign into a propaganda deal that is struck to help the PMs and the President to score internal points. Canada doesn't just follow when the US whistles like Australia or the UK. Or why exactly did the UK and Australia follow the US into Iraq?
Silly Australia paying UK & US for old nuclear submarines to fight unmanned Chinese AI submarines which don't need to be nuclear powered, while pissing off France at the same time.
I feel for the French but the Australian government want to get the best subs that money can buy. And clearly nuclear powered subs are the way to go for Australia.
and then Nuclear Sub are cheaper than french Diesel
The subs the French were going to provide are already nuclear. The biggest expense in making them for Australia was in re engineering them to be diesel.
In any case, this bellicose stance of the Aussies is unnecessary, especially when a remote country of 25 million population, with high tax rates, should spend its limited monies on better things.
@@kayem3824All the huge investment in nuclear weapons has actually prevented the cold war from ever going hot. The most peaceful thing to do is to make war untenable for the enemy.
@@dantos1991 But some countries have been waging war. In addition, why do they have huge conventional arsenals still? This seems to be psychological. This remote place wants to be taken seriously.
France has no historical respect for Australia. They must have short memories. France was testing nuclear weapons in Australia’s backyard in the South Pacific in the 1990s. They also sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand. So France, when you talk about friendship, have a look at your own behaviour of the past.
I think they test them near tahiti not new caledonia quite far away from australia
Don't forget the French were in full support of blocking those vaccine shipments to Australia earlier this year. They call Australia "Allies" but certainly don't treat them like an Ally.
Two dirties don't make either of them clean.
And the British tested nuclear weapons on Australian soil. South Australia to be precise
@@biggiedii4889
Rubbish
This French “betrayal” is absolutely delicious. Don’t act like the French wouldn’t do the exact same thing if they could steal a massive contract away from the Brits or Americans. 🤣🤣
The context of aukus was never nuclear propulsion subs. Everything fair in war but US just abandoned Afghanistan. The best tech may not always translate to real partnership.
@@toninobelimussi296 can you explain that a little bit in more detail please
@@gardensofthegods I'd somehow "heard" Germany and Sweden, but apparently it was Germany cooperating with Japan who lost the deal to France so now France is losing the deal to the US. Apparently, there was also a beef between Biden and Macron over BioNTech...
Your an idiot ! You didn't figure what mean 66 bilions and a contract for forty years !!
it is like hearing "Sugar Crush"
They talked about the U.K.’s imperialistic nostalgia then go to great lengths to show all the french colonies still in the indo pacific.
Brilliant 😂
Because France still has overseas territories in the Pacific. New Caledonia is part of France and they have representatives in the French parliament. In their most recent referendum they voted to remain part of France.
The U.K.'s empire in contrast is finished, so yes going on about it is just nostaligia...
@@josephyates9936 Still colonialism.
tbh the UK got all the best bits when it comes to colonialisation
@@josephyates9936 the commonwealth shows that many places we used to conquer and rule, still want to be tied to us in some way. Because we’re great and France is, well France.
The French Submarines would just surrender as soon as the war starts !!!
Good call Australia !!!😁
Well now Australia will have British submarines which will sail away at the first sign of trouble a la Dunkirk....
@@josephyates9936 They will be American Nuclear Power Submarines !!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Meanwhile, Canada joins New Zealand in the league of irrelevance.
@@bobbya8628 Canada doesn't have nuclear tech so it can't do much in this agreement
@@bobbya8628 how so? They dont really contribute, and im not sure theyd want to be apart of this. Especially with the retaliation from France
Canadian r sour now due to a US refusal to sell nuclear tech to Canada back then.
Add Britain to that list, they'v barely been mentioned. I actually they forgot they were part of the deal 😂
@@pandabear4565 what retaliation going do
The french were looking forward to a never ending service contract
Good mind reading there
Don't blame the French , they have the technology you didn't ! It's business !
@@druisteen If the French had the technology then why did Australia join with the US and UK instead?
Get over it. The French customer service on this sub contract was terrible so Australia found a better deal.
Lol, old Joe doesn’t know his own name let alone the Aus prime minister
Trust me, this deal with the US will have delays as well. We take five years to build a simple bridge over a highway.
WuMao has arrived.
Your population is aging before it gets wealthy. Your real estate sector is collapsing live. Your nation has absolutely no friends anywhere on the planet and is watching the world ally against you. You'll be back to famine and melting cooking pots to make steel soon enough.
@Armandpx if you want to talk about backstabbing the French are no exception. you're just mad because France is taking a backseat to other nations. if you can't start building a project after 5 years there is no deal
@Armand PX does your PM name going to save you from war or the nuclear submarine
France already spent the money that they expected to make off the deal.
Bad luck. I remember when France refused to send us ordinance during the Indonesian Confrontation, even though we had a contract. Karma!
These Anglo neo-imperialist, post-colonial nations really working hard to bring back the good old Empire on which the sun never sets, lol
Been holding a grudge all these decade's haven't we? Pop some ecstacy (or whatever it is you guys are getting high on these days 🙄), you'll feel better
It would be funny then if france sold nuclear sub to Indonesia.
240 years ago the French Navy defeated the British Navy in Chesapeake Bay, paving the way for the victory at Yorktown and the independence of the United States
@@darthvadeth6290 that include the French post-colonization nations in Africa and part of Canada too. They're LOSERS!
Macron: I have no friends, sad.
He has eaten all their legs 🤣
It's your false perception.
He will find new Friends
France needs to just sit down and stop crying. Pretending as if they did nothing wrong
Well they haven’t , the deal just no longer suited Australia. Can’t blame France for being pissed
@@damedusa5107 Is France going to war over it? Oh my Gosh!
@@toninobelimussi296 what?
@@toninobelimussi296 itss a debate idiot like everywere else in the world!!!!!
Wow dude, i think you missed the point and went very far from what's going on. But cheers mate.
France is a declining industrial power, subs deal is an example, there was delays in design and manufacture and Australia moved on. French scientists use to be the best at vaccine manufacture, now totally failed on covid vaccine, the new nuclear reactors design failure, UK still waiting for hinckley point decade of delays, always cost overrun on French projects.
a signed contract is a sign contract
@@benoitcransac2178 😂😂😂 just like the contract signed by the EU and astrazeneca
@@numanunees2597 damn. You're good.
@@benoitcransac2178 You must think contracts can't be cancelled.....
@@benoitcransac2178 Cool so you going to lower the cost of those subs back down to 50 billion? going to get them done on time? and going to have them made in Australia? After all, that's the contract that was signed on.
Hey Frenchies. Australia has been very unhappy with it's contract with the French sub builders. It has been very embarrassing for the Australian government. So the truth is that an unhappy customer has found another supplier
I wonder how much kickback they are getting from the US.
Because that supplier is going to be so wonderful and so reliable.. Of course.
you signed the contracts! your trains don't even run 7 days a week in Sydney! You bought ferries from Indonesia that don't fit under the bridges there! Id say its more we've got a customer with serious cognitive deficits & now you are going to seriously piss off your number one trade partner, China, see your economy dive & complain you didnt know!
@@jimimased1894 see Australia cares more about freedom than it does its relationship with China. Unlike the french apparently. Much love to Australia, from the usa. Enjoy the subs!
@@jimimased1894 you are pretty poorly informed. Since China began its sanctions commodity prices have risen and Australias balance of trade figures have improved out of sight. China is paying more for less. When they banned our coal China couldnt even provide enough power to service is industry or keep the lights on, they banned people from using electric heaters in the dead of winter. All the CCP did was hurt its own reputation and its own people.
France so actively tried to kick off the UK from the Galileo project, so what goes around eventually comes around (in way much bigger sum)
And without the UK they cannot even complete the Galileo project.
@UV Gardener Did you pick the wrong forum for your comment?
@UV Gardener I'm flattered by your keen interest in my person. I've had my account for years (10? 15?). I'm not operating a news channel, so no, I'm not publishing videos myself. Paranoia much?
Ah, I see, a small Taiwanese flag made you see red! Who would've thought of that? Have you considered therapy, as in anger management? Medication could help, too.
240 years ago the French Navy defeated the British Navy in Chesapeake Bay, paving the way for the victory at Yorktown and the independence of the United States
@UV Gardener I'm from Central Europe and I put this flas just to spice up the CCP dogs employed actively in the internet propaganda sector
Macron has not only thrown his toys out of the pram but is lying on the supermarket floor yelling and flailing his limbs about.
@charles It was more of a "I wanted to buy the car, but the rear fender fell off" sort of thing.
imagine this - you make deal with a contractor to build a house and 5 years later not 1 brick has been laid and your cost for the project DOUBLED yet the contactor is laissez faire and needs to take his regular summer months off the last 5 years of negotiations, didn't sign the contract till 2 years after beginning talks about the project and someone offers a better deal with the newest in environmental control systems instead of dated electronics. what would you think?
Poor fellow: Ossies are just US buttlers, shame on this country
@@g118118 - Australians don't tolerate fools. Maybe that's why they got rid of Macron.
@@g118118 - Actually, I'd recommend the French get rid of Macron too.
Our cousins, the Aussie's backed out after learning that the French submarines were only fitted with a reverse gear!
These clowns are hilarious 🤣😂 did he actually say that Britain is snubbing the Eu by electing more pro- Brexit politicians to parliament.
French are always emotional . Man do I love seeing them break down 🤣🤣
We don't care about the EU we literally hate them what don't they understand
@@nightowl3218 hate them? No, we dislike some of the countries governments.
@@damedusa5107 no we hate the bureaucrats that run the eu like Ursula von der layen
@@damedusa5107 but yeah we dislike some of their countries governments as well like france definitely
The deal with France was originally $50 Billion dollars for the 12 subs, this price crept up to $90 Billion over just a few years. Australia is getting a better deal, 8 nuclear powered subs are far more effective than the 12 non nuclear French subs.
There range and capabilities of nuclear powered subs are exactly what is needed by the Australians.
It was 90 billion Australian dollar ...
Australia told about that deal in 2016 ..and due to that naval group( french company) refused small deals from other countries ..so it is a big loss for naval group ( sorry for my English😅)
Well australia asked for a non nuclear submarine version of a nuclear submarine..
In effect designing a new conventional submarine based nuclear submarines; that's a tall order if not ridiculously absurd..
I recognize there's more to it than that ; but it's a strategic communication failure from both France and Australia..
In the beginning the Australians were not in favor of nuclear submarines for political/environmental reasons. They asked the french to switch to diesel. The Australians are just siding with a bigger power because the political scene has changed since 2016 when the contract was signed. The French have seen numerous humiliations from the US starting with the war with Iraq...look where it took the world 20 years later...Bottom line: the Anglo saxon cannot be trusted by its allies and it will turn against them at one point
@@bridokram The french can’t talk about not being trusted. The amount of backtracking and stabbing in the back the french have inflicted on the British is numerous.
France is just upset that it is being treated how it often treats others
@@luckyluke1503 at 50 billion not 90 billion. We were financially played before this got off the ground. When the price changed why it is not a matter of trust. It is economics and re assessment of value.
My crush ignores me the same way they ignored the UK!
Actually, the AUKUS
leaders never had to mention China because ABC news Australia did it for them.
Nobody has to mention it , it is a given.
AUkUs formed an alliance
Why ?
IT IS IMPERATIVE
that no EurAsian challenger emerges capable of dominating EurAsia and thus of also challenging America
-
Zbignew Brzezinski
Nicholas J Spykman
@@geoeconomics5629 The red menace must be stopped
@@visassess8607
It has nothing to do with red manace communism capitalism freedom or democracy
it has everything to do with this:
USA has only one interest:
IT IS IMPERATIVE
that no EurasiaN challenger emerges capable of dominating EurasiA and thus of also challenging America
-
Nicholas J Spykman
Zbignew Brzezinski etc.
After all that vaccine blocking and snatching.
France with their double standards.
Let's be honest, the French are butthurt that the Aussies got a better deal for better tech from the US. That's all it is.
I agree partially. The French are also a pacific nation and they are worried than one of their partner in the region is scrapping an alliance all of the sudden, whitout notice. I said they may as well do something with China now, since NATO doesn’t mean anything apparently.
It is how and when you communicate that. This is counterproductive.
Well done Australia 👍🏻
It's hard to take seriously a foreign minister with purple colored eyeglass frames 😂😂😂
The French including this program have been desperately trying to make this look like a solely US-AUS deal, trying to downplay the UK is as obvious as it is pathetic. No-one has determined who will be providing the design or reactor for Australia, in fact Australia's own info page had an Astute class boat outline on its front...
@@theflyingspaghettimonster6462 then why is the UK part of this deal? I wouldn’t be surprised if they bought the Astute. UK type 26 was also chosen so the UK and Australia have a solid industrial partnership to build on.
@rudraksh Singh I hope you're joking
@rudraksh Singh so irrelevant that you’re commenting on them…
Exactly, the French, Germans and EU love to ignore the UK's major role and power around the world.
@rudraksh Singh Of course you don't due to all the bribes they coerce out of the people and from foreign interests.
Ironic the France feels threatened on China in South China Sea, does it not remember their colonialism of South East Asia and how Vietnamese kicked them out. Stick to Europe and let the Asian nations deal with it. These other Anglo nations love war.
America got kicked out of Vietnam as well. America is the main war monger of the Anglo nations, the UK just tags along with them mostly but contirbutes comparatively little to the actual war effort.
Agree with western powers staying out of Asia.
Is AUKUS deal good or bad? Easy, just check out China's reaction.
Better still - check out the French's reaction. They are absolutely beside themselves livid how they were strung along by antipodean sheep farmers at the behest of the Five Spies.
@@CollieJenn Your English sucks. Try Mandarin and we might be able to understand you.
@@stevenalvarado-doc7334 Sorry my China Doll but I cannot speak Mandarin.
An labhraíonn tú teanga do mháistir nua b’fhéidir: Gaeilge
@@stevenalvarado-doc7334 Since native english speakers are known to only be able to speak only one language. Funny
Well yes, and France is not a pacific power. The US had to defend French territory in Polynesia, and elsewhere, and that includes in France during World War II.
And you think France would have done what? if this opportunity was reversed.
France will go to Africa to get that billions back, they loot and steal from africa for years
@@ascended5485 Ouin ouin ouin, les méchants Français, ouin ouin areuuuh ! On fait comme toutes les puissances font: du business. Et en plus on crée des emplois sur place . Alors arrête de pleurnicher comme une petite pucelle et mets-toi au boulot ! Et pour te faire plaisir, sache que la présence française ne représente pratiquement plus rien en Afrique. Walou, nada, niente, nichts. Tu dois nous confondre avec les Chinois.
One robber just got robbed by another 😄
it is however... Not the case.
@@francois-xavieresperance5007 We all know it is not true, ask Mali, Cote d'ivoire, ... etc and all the countries that are still paying France the colonization tax
The cost of the French subs went from $50 billion Oz dollars to $90 billion with a 10 year delay in delivery. No wonder the Aussies bailed.
💯
Crappy diesel subs vs nuclear that are fueled for 20yr stints.
Absolutely no brainer.
@@Optimus-Prime-Rib Australia requested that France retrofit their submarines with diesel when their expertise was in nuclear power, so yes, you are a no brainer
It will be the same with the US.
@@Optimus-Prime-Rib crappy? Diesel is not crappy, they are just suited to coastal defence and are better than nuclear at that. Nuclear is better for longer distance
Future news: France sells nuclear technology to Afghanistan as revenge.
Future future news: America undermines France and sells THEIR nuclear technology to Taliban and then decides to wage War on Nuclear Terror for 20 years 😂!
Well France has sold far more submarines on the international market than the US and UK. Which is easy as they have not sold anything since the 1970s.
Says it all when the title doesn't include the UK. So salty
😂😂😂
Aha I know. How pathetic they are
And what exactly is the UK providing in this deal? The possibility of maybe producing the reactors?
@@theflyingspaghettimonster6462 probably the whole submarine Astute since the US wouldn’t need to include the UK otherwise if the aussies purchased the Virginias.
@@TheBooban could be some Dreadnaughts as well ;) Considering BAE is already building up the shipyard in Adelaide for the Type 26 Frigates they can add some buildings..
Well due to significant issues with the Attack Class project, in Feb the Australian Govt. started looking for alternatives , June/July the Aussie govt gave a Naval Group a deadline of Sept. to provide an acceptable cost quote. Seems either the quote wasn't acceptable, or provided on time. Now France is claiming this proof that "Europeans" cannot rely on external powers for their equipment and defence needs. And they call us Brits, opportunistic. Hard to have any respect for French Govt credibility at the moment.
LOL, I giggle as an American watching the Aussie thinks we can do better than the French. Our CA Bullet Train went from $20 billion US to over $100+ billion after 20 years and still rising with no end in sight. Thank you for your business mates!
Still it is the US or French.
US has better tech it is as simple as that 14 times the size 6 times the people and it inherited the naval genes from the Anglo_Saxon.
Plus the French did nothing against a rising threat like China
Not to mention those trains don’t even meet the minimum requirement of a high speed train. There just High speed to us.
The subs will be made in Adelaide, South Australia.
@@popeofchina8551 '..naval genes from the Anglo_Saxon' ..who were routed by France's Lafayette in Chesapeake Bay 240 years ago to the day which created the United States of America. And then America and Britain go and celebrate by stabbing the French in the back!!
Diminishing France's role will have profoundly negative consequences for the western military alliance. Notice how the Kremlin is very quiet lately. This is an enormous victory for their softly softly catchee monkey approach in the face of western provocations, sanctions and threats. This sub deal is a disaster for the west and will be the catalyst for a new alliance of SCO and now to some extent Europe with France leading the way squaring up to the Five EYES (with Australia being the one-eyed cyclop).
Hmmm... America has no high train tech. I wonder if CA signed a raw deal with France. Hmmmm
These submarines can literally pick-off any ship they choose at will
Diesel powered engines vs. nuclear powered. Australia went green. Bravo for fighting global warming.
Diesel is more silent. Also if US does not want france to sell nucluar subs to taiwan, they can stuff it now. There is no moral nucluar highground by this.
@@doemijmaarfriet You could be right. But diesel fuel has to be constantly replaced and the drilling and refining itself releases CO2. Nuclear releases no CO2 and generates for extended periods.
Of course, each nation has to abide by the politics at home.
@@stephenbailey9969 you think military think about the greengases when talking about war? Usa filled irak with low radiation uranium bullets till people got cancer. What about Abraham tanks, this jet fighter tanks are anything but environment friendly. They wamt to win a future war... hell with the environment.
@@doemijmaarfriet You're right. Military efficiency is their first priority.
I was just pointing out the irony in the situation.
France has both nuclear and diesel powered subs.
Are you idiotic to the point of not understanding the projects weren't the problem but the alliances were?
Contract costs went from $50bn to $90bn and the company was failing to deliver. Australia has strategic concerns and the French company was failing to deliver.
French will make Skippy pay dearly for this. Though in fairness they did they exact same thing to the Russians.
how will the French make Skippy do anything? they couldn't complete a sub deal for 5 years.....
@@CollieJenn The French nation owes a huge debt to Australia worth far more then 50 or 90 billion AUD. That debt was made by the blood of the many, many thousands of young Australians who travelled from the other side of the world to defend France during WW1. France knew there were problems with massive costs overrun but in typical French style they are too arrogant to admit it.
@@craigrs61 Not the war again...
@@CollieJenn Yeah the war again. 295,000 Australians fought on the Western Front defending France. Nearly 60 percent of those became casualties of which 49,000 died and remember Australia had a total population of 5 million people at that time.
I surrender -France 🏳️
Not funny
@@Artefact_Master ok frenchie go eat your baguette and calm down
@@Artefact_Master 🏳️🏳️
Well done UK let France get the cheese contract 🤪
Hassan Abdullah
France's got plenty of leeway to challenge the UK
@BBC hindi the complete irony of your username😂😂😂
@@scottiramage317 you can best mock the clowns when fully understanding the way they think and operate.
@@billybill6604 by sending more Dinges
@@paygorenewableenergy312 Don't breed. You faulty genes need not to be inflicted onto the next generation.
This deal is not about Submarines... this deal is about China!
Think with your "strategic hat" on...
@@KW-hk2jd - It is about the formal declaration of an "Anglosphere Military Alliance" against China... which would include Nuclear Submarines along with many more other nuclear & non-nuclear weapons and components.
Australia's balancing act (between US & China) is over. It has now become the formal staging base for any military action by US (and its spare tire UK) on China.
Other non-Anglosphere allies like Japan, etc will form an outer layer of alliance against China.
In my opinion this was a good move for all adversaries of China including Japan, India and even EU.
But is also a stark reminder to France that it is not a part of the Core Group led by US (Anglosphere) which probably it thought it was...
The only surprise here is Macron did not recall his UK ambassador. He knows he is just being laughed out of town in Britain.
@charles haha oh so it's the British who need to feel important? lol Remind me who has the submarine contract?
@@timmo491 Charles has a point. Even after Zhukov took over Berlin, Britain requested Soviet Union to allow their representation in Berlin. This was just a show.
So even now Britain must have been pestering the US to include them in order to project to the world that they matter.
@charles haha ridiculous loser. The submarines will be the Astue class British class which is the most advanced in the world. You are so green with envy it is seeping out of every statement you make lol
American here. You guys were asked very nicely at the G7 to change your policy on China. You didn’t and we went a different direction. We’re very serious about protecting our Australian allies. We have a shared history in war and our people are very close. I wish the French would stop being weird about English speaking alliances. We love you guys but when CANZUK needs our help move out of the way.
Kama. Americans canceled Iran contract. France didn’t stand against American. Chicken came to roast.
Face it. Naval Group screwed up this project. The cost was double after 6 years and they missed two contract milestones. They were warned repeatedly. Australia had series of exits in the contract and they lost confidence and took up that option.
Yes, there was a new strategic imperative, but France messed it up.
Two things: Back in 2016, the French had nuclear submarines to sell but the Aussies chose the diesel / electric option. Also, the Aussies are claiming that timing is an issue when the american subs order will take another decase to be delivered. In the meantime, China is certainly expanding its influence in the indo-pacific region.
Breach of trust, haha you just don't like turning around and taking back what you were giving..😂
they saw on news literally usa would have given heads up earlier.
also if used properly diesel submarines would be as same deadly as ssnb actually.
why call a show debate when everyone is on the same side?
its not politics its a debate !
The French and Germans always like to belittle the British. The Australians may well get the British
Astute Class subs.
You English people have deep inferiority complex towards the Germans and French. The Scottish seem healthier and less bitter than the English
@@kaboonali5466 I think you need a mirror.
@@kaboonali5466 Germany is younger than the United States. They are inferior.
@@kaboonali5466 you just proved his comments correct.
Sick USA,UK & Australia 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿
France must regain their independence again.
From whom?
@@maxt9657 eu nato euro
No i think that the real sentence should be "Australia must regain their independence again!"
@football ⚽ theatre Australia cancels a deal with France and favors one with the US/UK and that’s why France should leave the EU? Sorry but I can’t follow that logic…
@@maxt9657 regaining their independence doesn't mean exit from EU
The French should have been more upfront about how stupid the Aussie hierarchy is for wanting to convert a Nuclear powered Sub into a diesel electric boat.
Yeah. What stupidity is that 😂 just go get a diesel submarine off the shelf
Why are you all bringing Biden into it? He probably doesn't even know it happened. We're still trying to figure out who's running the show over here.
The french don't have china sailing around it's border the french have to understand we can't just wait while china's navy gets bigger. The Australian people need protection too. Here soon they can we can lease our old subs to Australia.
*Did he just said imperial nostalgia?!!*
Hes not wrong, the brits still long for when they were an empire
@@diegoflores9237 I'm a Brit and I don't long for a British empire. And I'm glad we have an alliance with Australia. It's not an empire it's supporting a brother.
@@diegoflores9237 you could say the same with France constantly interfering in africa
@@nightowl3218 this not just interfering ,France simply never gave up colonialism
@@ingurlund9657 I do the world would be much better off under British rule and everyone with any sense knows that.
France was planning on milking Australia for as much money for as long as possible as they could.
So will the US.
@@quoniam426 The US isn't even going to build the subs the UK is...what the US gets is basing rights and access to support infrastructure for nuclear attack subs in Australia
If the French thrown their toys out of the pram over Brexit, they might have been invited to the party - maybe not the whole thing, but they could have shared a canapé
The British don’t make the decision of who is invited and who isn’t, that’s up to the boy boys in Washington.
@@kaboonali5466 Thats just not true. The British have a great deal of influence in the UK/US relationship. The USA badly needs the UK to get nations like AUS, CAN and India on board. The UK holds far more power and sway within the commonwealth nations than the USA has and thats what makes the UK such an important partner to the US.
@@alistairbolden6340 That’s is simply not true, if it were the case then the British establishment and government wouldn’t have cried about the US not consulting it on the Afghan withdrawal.
@@kaboonali5466 The trouble with the little englanders is they don't know when they are being played.
@@alistairbolden6340 I am all about the UK and love this alliance. I do think the UK is a very significant player but to say stuff like “the US needs the UK” or needs them to get “alliances with India, Canada, and Australia” is not true. Don’t let that ego get too high now
The Froggies just got slapped for their delays after delays.
There was a breach of contract with delays, out dated technology, price hikes etc. And with the China threat it just look like a natural conclusion.
France failed to deliver, 10 years and still no design, just lots of cash paid by Australia for nothing.
2021 now. 2016 contract signed.
2021 minus 2016 equals 10 years.
Can you get your money back from the school you attended?
Macro talking of EU establishing their military therefore abandoning Nato, and the Chinese bullying Australia and taking over international seaways, it's a wise move for the AUKUS to plan a strategy French are not to be trusted.
The french have literally shot themselves in the foot with trying to upstage their deal with the Australians
haha both barrels too
Brexit Britain seems to be a global player these days. The submarine technology will also come from the UK, French propaganda seems to omit this fact.
LOL pathetic.
Seán O'Nilbud yep technological expertise and a global reach certainly is overrated.
Britain certainly is a global player - wherever America goes the UK goes but only as the poodle!!
Joseph Yates and the Eu is….???
I take the (paraphrased) Edward Longshanks view of the French - the problem with France is that it is full of French.
If the Australian government compromised national security on the basis of 'upsetting' the French, they would not be fit to govern. Clearly nuclear powered submarines are a better technology - on the basis of effectiveness and cost.
Doesn’t take much to upset the French. The US and Australia are starting to see what the UK’s been dealing with for the last 5 years.
You think diesel is more expensive than nucluar? Whahahaha
@@doemijmaarfriet the french managed to balloon a 25 billion dollar contract to 90 billion without even building a single ship. Nothing had happened and the cost had trebled.
@@Sawise92 ever seen the Joint strike Fighter pricing? And with this us/uk deal... still havemt got anything yet
@@doemijmaarfriet 11 of them are on the deck of our brand new super carriers…
Lying Morrison, not trust worthy
Yep, honesty isn't something he's good at.
Simple. The French do not possess 11 carriers and 290 ships in its fleets. Europeans seldom act together and timely although partnerships with Europe is desired and necessary. Give France a base or two in Australia for their fleet and subs.
Why when they act crying France was hacked and secretive information was leaked out about the submarines
US military complex just ran over another small potato... No need to talk all day long to soften the embarrassment, this is the reality
Since this was announced Americans and the UK finally show their real face. Me as a german never liked you anyways, so basicly i Hope Nato is finally over and you guys can fight your stupid wars alone.
The deal between France and Australia was for 90% of submarine construction to be done in Australia, by oversight that was left out of the contract. Once the contract was signed, the French immediately reduced that to 60% with no guarantee it wouldn't be reduced further. Imagine the French response if Australia had withdrawn their ambassador claiming a breach of trust. Things only got worse with the deal, delays and cost blowouts. Australians have been talking about getting out of this deal for years, the suggestion that this was unexpected is dishonest.
Which is absurd: over 90% of the value of modern submarines is in the software not the bits and things. It is impossible for another to replicate what various specialist corporations have spent often half a century developing. Austrian my have 90% of the welding like we did with Collins class submarines. We brought all the proprietary knowledge from overseas
The Australians made the right decision as exemplified by how childish France is acting, no country wants to be tied to on national defense with a nation like that. The US considers France an ally but not a strategic or reliable one.
France, you're dead wrong on this one. Quit whining and embarrassing yourselves. You got so greedy, you forced Australia to make this move.
superior tech.... why are the French so surprised? Good on Australia and serve the French right for being too slow! do you go with a mini-power called France or a super alliance called USA / UK?
Most likely, when the deal was made in 2016 (5 years after Fukushima), Nuclear submarines was proposed but dismissed over Diesel-ones. But now that the US and China are engaging in a weapon race, they changed their mind. (Also, Mini-power would not be the choice of word i would do. But you're free to do so.)
The Australian guy in the panel sounds French to me
Yeah I think he's nominally Australian only. Clearly has very neo-marxist/French/anti-western/anglophone views and probably hasn't visited his "homeland" in a while.
😂😂😂
Yes, he's not one of us Aussies. If he is, he's from the very Left side of Centre and thus, no grounding in practical matters surrounding national security, defence and military considerations. His type went on work strikes on the wharves in Australia during WWII when we had the Japanese breathing down our throats and bombing our northern zones.
@@zel3888 I think you're right, or close to it.
Pray to God for us Ukrainians, pray for Ukraine. We will win! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes! They won't get through! We are alive.God is for Ukraine!
Frrnch companies should change how they do business. Oz made what was a natural choice to them. When do the french ever buy defense platforms from other countries??
So why did Australia sign the deal in the first place? At some point it made sense. Then at another point it didn't. The Australian public need to know what changed. Scott Morrison even if I was being kind is incompetent at best and a fool at worst. So after the royal commission we will know. Because it's that important.
Naval group delayed unacceptably (leaving a defence gap), put the price up 80%, didn’t honour the local labour content agreement (upskilling local production was an explicit requirement of AU)… they might like to think the contract was stolen but Naval group walked away from it.
To be fair they offered nuclear version Barracuda in 2016. but Australia turned it down.
@@pp-bb6jj Yes because we have had a nuclear ban in place since 1998 and only due to the threat that China has become in the last 12 months has made our gov rethink that ban.
So you sign an open cheque agreement with the US military industrial complex. LOL
@@The_Desert_Tiger What threat?
@@pp-bb6jj I read somewhere a difference between the French and UK/USA design is the French reactors need to be refuelled while the others are fuelled "for life" (with highly enriched uranium, which I also suspect Australia wouldn't want to directly handle). Maybe Australia is looking for a ready for use reactor to be returned for disposal and entirely avoid needing any local nuclear work?
For us the rest of the world don’t care what west pact and their agreement would be. We would say good luck but us Asia, Africa, Middle East want to be left alone and we want them to say good luck too
then stop terrorism
Frances idea of a debate show: every guest and the host take the french position. They still fail to make a point
If you were suddenly given a new choice what would you do…. buy the new Barracuda class nuclear submarines, or continue with the Baguette class diesel? 🥖🥖 😂
The UK is a European nation and we are involved in the Pacific. The EU in NOT Europe.
"Dead in the water", mainly because the French were so difficult to deal with, major delays and substantial cost blow-outs. Who wouldn't want a nuclear sub over an underwater diesel Citroen! Talking about trust... Vichy France sound familiar!
Do not mention the Eurofighter project the French left to build their own... Talking about fighters Australia could join the fighter programs.
still wondering why Australia can't build their own. Lack of ----- abilities?
Stop spreading shit. We french people have nuclear submarine. Australia wanted a diesel version of our submarine... So we were willing to this for them. We were supposed to provide them technology knowledge to build it by themselves. This is not something you do quickly because it was all about building an industry.... Now Australia has the aukus deal but did you read between lines??!! There is no deal, scheduled delivery of submarine just talk...... Maybe you will receive your first submarine in 2100. This was not a professional move from Australia they didn't tell nothing to france about their plan. There are thousand australian engineer who were learning in France. Even them learnt about this info in the media do you think this is normal.....
@@tenshinhantenshinhan3540 Don't bother my friend. The vast majority of this comment section is either "haha french take that ! lol" or "french lazy, undereqquiped and irrelevant, remember vichy".
Now what can the EU allies say on this? Can they still trust US?
They have no option only really France has any power in the EU and really not that much.
@@alistairbolden6340 yeh basically
Delays and over budget. If you can get the same thing somewhere else with the subs being built in the buying nation and nuclear propulsion technology transfer, they would be fools to refuse the opportunity.
I love Australia, the UK and France. But relying on a guy like Biden, who blows with the wind, is foolish. The people who elected Biden won't fight China and neither will those in the military who watched the clown show in Afghanistan. I lived in Sydney during the first ANZAC day parade after the last WWI vet had died. Watching the veterans of Tobruk, the Solomons and New Guinea - where my own father fought - was a moving experience. As was the War Memorial in Canberra and my visit to the beaches of Normandy. Once again Biden's conduct was dishonorable.
The start of new cooperation between Europe and Chinese 🛡
Dont be stupid...the EU knows what the CCP is.
@Dirty Solo Exactly!
@@shielahaberecht3417 lmao don’t be so stupid as to dismiss everything he is saying, The EU and the CCP have been cooperating for ages. The EU is chinas largest trading partner, and the CPP is the EU’s second largest.
@@shielahaberecht3417 don’t be so naive
@Dirty Solo Exactly, the EU is not a evil, just a loyal dog of the US. You know, a dog has no any right to say no to his owner.
AUKUS is an ethnic only English speaking countries alliance. You would believe it soon.
why are we talking like france do not have nuclear submarine? if it is about a change in requirement, why can't france sell nuclear submarine instead? it is obvious the deal was design to deny france the business than because france could not provide the capabilities.
It wasn't about the capability , it was about the price
The price was insane !
Besides France didn't have the capability to meet these new China requirements
They are going for a real attack like astute or Virginia not a simply a bigger aip
Australia wanted subs that go forward not backwards, like French tanks in WW2.
France is behind both the British and Americans in submarine technology. France is becoming increasingly obnoxious (which they excell at) and irrelevant
Turkey also has replaced French weapons sales to Africa. The French are shut down from all over the world because of their arrogance. 😂😂😂😂
In the long run, this may be a great thing for French, because this get the French off the warmonger's bandwagon which is heading to a cliff. Maybe it's time that the French and the EU get true independence from the declining evil empire.
mmm, an EU army led by France and Germany is how Macron wants this to end. That is a scary thought
This is what happens when war criminals fall out
France has very little idea of what is happening in Australia and china. It could be that the EU is discussing with China for a trade deal and even more that The EU is intent in creating their own EU army and using that in the indo pacific which also means the EU is trying to replace Nato which the USA backs fully.The UK since leaving the EU is intent on building a g;obal UK will exercise their options and have joined the USA and Australia in an agreement to supply nuclear submarines to Australia.
Remember Australia saved your country in ww1 and 2 . France manufacturer naval group expensive too long
The real consequence not mentioned is this event points again to the growing irrelevance of NATO.
Agree. If the EU was able to, slim as chances are, assert itself and build a cohesive foreign policy and back it up with a European army, it would change the global geopolitical landscape instantly. NATO would be over. Frankly, a cohesive Europe is everyone's nightmare, thus the big players (US, Russia, China) activity on our beautiful little continent. The only obstacle is German war- and other Europeans colonial guilt. Go beyond that and we could see Europe at its fullest potential.
Victory to France
Victory to England
Long live Paris commune
Bottom line. No one wants those old tech diesel subs or old Rafael planes. If you don’t stay competitive, you can’t hang.
The French said that they didn’t understand why Australia didn’t ask for the standard variant of the submarine - the nuclear variant. Not sure if that was an option in 2012 or not
Not true. India has bought many Rafale aircraft but I'm not sure if Indians are the best judge of quality...
@@tomjohnston3393 ya... typhoon was made by 4 nations... real quality... wtf!!!
@MATURITY IS RARE The French should not complain about being back stabbed.
You forgot how France canceled the Mistral deal with Russia? 🤣
There are no "friends" in geopolitics.
@MATURITY IS RARE Right- Most notably the construction of what we call the "Queen Elizabeth Class" aircraft carriers.
France was originally planning to have their own version built, based off of the British carriers, but withdrew in 2013 after throwing a tantrum about the fact that it couldn't have a nuclear reactor for propulsion. France is only ever committed to treachery-like the downing of the stealth bomber over Bosnia, and the US cut you out of the loop for giving the flight coordinates to the enemy.
France is right...black eye on Australia.
@15:25 "There is only one other great western naval power in the Pacific, besides US, and that is France".... That's a joke, right? Given that it could barely deal with Turkey in the Mediterranean in the summer, can anyone believe they could confront modernized PLN in the South China Sea or the Taiwan Strait.
France has never gotten out of their pre colonial mindset. They still think they are the shit but they are having a difficult time dealing with reality. An Oldman who is refusing to accept he is old.
yes, totally agree with you...for those who are living in the Europe sunshine and water, the never know how the ugly face of the 14B EMPIRE , the darkness of SC ocean and the deepness of the Pacific Ocean.
India values France as a trusted and capable partner. Their foreign ministers have just issued a joint statement.
@gaulehero How much do you really think you know about PLAN that you are commenting in this manner?
PLAN has numerous loopholes which I can't write here in public? If you're mainlander HAN then even more so!
PLAN has issues and that's why they are furious about the AUKUS deal that is about SSN in lieu of SSBN.
Did you get that?
@@RainHawk SSN in lieu of SSK*
So there's the excuse for Indonesia to kickstart its domestic nuclear industry.
Canada should be part of it somehow.
They really need to do something about their clunkers. Buy French?
And yet the are smart enough not to sign into a propaganda deal that is struck to help the PMs and the President to score internal points. Canada doesn't just follow when the US whistles like Australia or the UK. Or why exactly did the UK and Australia follow the US into Iraq?
Why, no external force would dare threaten Canadian soil. US would destroy them.
@@TheBooban No, they should get better than that. UK or US
@D G That doesn't mean we don't need an armed forces. We need to contribute to NATO and the anti-China coalition that will soon be required
Any trust France 🇫🇷 they don’t even speak English. France.. YOURE FIRED!!
Growing ties between Australia and the US?! Is she dreaming? Australia and America have been best of friends for two hundred years!!!
Not best friends puppet or pet dog of America
Better to say
Silly Australia paying UK & US for old nuclear submarines to fight unmanned Chinese AI submarines which don't need to be nuclear powered, while pissing off France at the same time.