To illustrate clearly my mindset here, because several in the comments are missing it: I don't care about specific balance and tuning in the beta. If it's weak because of specific number issues, or OP because of specific number issues, that's not what I'm really interested in. We're talking design, fantasy, mechanics, customisation. Balance will come and go, these things are permanent.
I found your take on it really interesting and I genuinely liked it while I may not agree with all of it, I also didn't get around to playing all it. Was mainly surprised to hear you play league of legends at some point I use to play was in Diamond-Master's elo but the game got a bit too low carry potential in my opinion especially with the amount of items they added in that had some form of low cd point and click high reward usage like playing any position reliant character while there was a prowler's claw in play :(
I like the way you think. I agree on grading the specs on their concept and implementation of the concept. Because the numbers can easily be changed and will be changed. And I agree about having specs that are accessible to everyone. I love this game and want to see it grow.
I agree with you about balancing numbers. That's whatever. But I want to quibble about one thing. You specifically say design, but design is the entire problem with most of them. I'm not talking about aesthetic design, I'm talking in terms of player agency and player choice. There are three very large things that aren't being discussed nearly as much as they ought to be. First, and most obnoxious, is how insular the traits are and how they miss the mark both ways - from the extreme Mechanist trait design of removing choice and synergy all together beyond the very basic dot or power damage to the exact opposite with the Untamed where you have a lot of trait choices but none of them are significant or change the way you play. The traits either don't synergize with the base classes or are too vague to really be build-arounds. These sort of insular trait issues are present in all nine of them, but these two are the most glaringly obvious. Secondly, a lot of the classes that can't see the forest from the trees - Vindicator, Catalyst, Specter - where the implementation of the class mechanic is convoluted. Flipping abilities is fine and good, but what is the benefit of it? To be more versatile? I can already switch everything about my character anywhere in the world. Combo fields are fun, but Elementalist already had a plethora of combo effects, so what does all of the Catalyst stuff do, precisely? The Specter having to target other is people potentially exciting, but having a buddy system all the time is not. Third, a lot of them are uninspired and don't actually change the base class enough to warrant elite specialization status. Virtuoso is just Greatsword Mesmer but the clones are now combo points. Willbender is just Guardian with mobility. Untamed is Greatsword Ranger but without enough extra steps to feel different. The Mechanist without the pet is actually significantly worse than just being an Engineer. The only ones that really feel well-iterated on are Bladesworn and Harbinger, where they do offer variety in trait selection, have new and obvious and unique mechanics, and actually build upon the base classes in a meaningful way. All of the others feel half-baked in some way and no one trusts Arena Net enough to put them back in the oven and fix them. That's the problem.
@@nucklepuckk i think that is a good way of doing a tier list, but in your actual video you rank some of the specs based on power/current balance at some points so i would pay attention to the consistancy of the ranking so it makes more sense. you do very well thoughout videos and setting very defined things and trying to stick to them might make tier lists like this better, enjoyable overall.
@@R_SENAL i wish they would add proper match making for the minigames. even if it is just an option for private matches due to low player count; it'd be great to be able to arrange stuff like guild vs guild kegbrawl matches or even tournaments.
From an older player, I wanted to thank you for thinking of us. Yes, we need a lower intensity playstyle like the Mechanist to make the game more accessible.
@@aguy6833 I second that. I literally cannot see some raid or fractal mechanics because of ridiculous sparkly skills/auras/infusions and the terrible post processing this game has.
@William George Would you mind sharing your DD build? I struggle with Thief and die too quickly. I main Ranger but go to Minion Master Reaper or Scourge if I really want to take things slow.
same, i'm only 29 but i have chronic pain so i can usually only play high intensity builds for 2 hours at absolute maximum. I'm very much a soulbeast player tho so i'll have to see how the new elite for ranger is ^^'
I have chronic migraines, making it difficult to do much in high-intensity game modes, which means that playstyles with low skill requirements are downright essential for my enjoyment. I consider myself a competent player, but I can't always put a ton of energy into the game because I just don't have the energy to give. As a result, Mechanist has been a godsend. I've been playing it constantly for the past three days, and even with all the clunkiness of the mech's AI it still feels incredible to me. It's even raid viable, with the alacrity/barrier build. I think the thing that needs some work on it is the mace; the mech itself is incredible.
True, and I'd say Holosmith is worst of because of it. Nothing in Holosmith makes you use core skills differently, you just use them to fill the gaps in the Holo Forge gameloop. Holosmith is still fine though cause you can really engage with the forge. The mekanist however leaves the engineer with nothing new to do besides commanding their pet. Mace just brings the same play, but weaker, as both scrapper and Holosmith does with sword and hammer, and the only alternatives are core skills that functions just like they do on any elite spec. Mekanist needs something that makes us reevaluate rifle, pistol, toolkit, etc perhaps some interplay between the golem and the mekanist, like golem skills that cause lots of blast finishers, and thus the engineer want to make combo fields for it with mortar or bomb kit.
@@engilaru I don't think that elite specs "need" things that make us re-evaluate the base class. It's brilliant when it happens, and I'd always ask for it. But saying it's a "need" is totally wrong. Elite specs do not replace your profession, the influence of the core stuff is always there to interact with. E.g elixir S prime light beam type stuff. Holosmith is fantastic, the fact it can be cited as an example here proves exactly why direct interactions with old stuff isn't essential. (Holo does interact well with tools and it has an explosion component BTW)
@@engilaru oh please no, just like he said in the video we need good low skill specs in the game, I dont mind admitting I need a low skill spec that feels fun to play im one of those people.
@@WoodenPotatoes Lets not be pedantic about the word "need", thats not helpful at all. Sure the spec doesn't "need" to make everyone happy, or anyone for that matter, a spec doesn't have intrinsic "needs" unless we assign a purpose. In my opinion, the implied purpose for these specs is to be brilliant. As you said, it would be brilliant if it had it, so lets ask for it while we can. What we should do is recognize shortcomings and especially during a beta, look for ways to improve every elite spec to make them more apealing and enjoyable to a larger audience. Just because its fine doesn't mean it can't be better. Also I said Skills, not Traits. Holosmith doesn't make explosive skills different. It rides on explosive traits sure, but doesn't deliver anything back to the core skills. Even your example of Elixir S is the Elixir enhancing your ability to use the Holosmith stuff, not the other way around. Scrapper on the other hand has some interesting traits that inspires you to revisit old skills and see them in new light.
@@laughing_man Nothing I said had anything against the existance of simple easy playstyles to be availible on the mekanist. I enjoy that myself from time to time. But there are traits and skills to choose from, let some of them be for easy mode and some add some complexity and depth for those who want that.
I think they have done a great job with the thief specializations. Daredevil, Deadeye, and Specter all have unique use cases and lots of mix and matching within the trait lines. For Specter, I'm quite excited to finally have a class to babysit new players with, and the thief is perfect for that. I can invite friends to the game and focus on making them have a ton of fun. Single target heals and barriers to keep them alive, stealth to help them escape, one-way portal to bring them to fun areas. I don't think there is another spec better for exploring open world with a new player/friend.
Right! It will be very fun to provide all the utility of stealth, portal and now also heal and boon support! The trait that lets you save someone from a certain death by tethering to them last second is cool!
Would be really excited about a tier list about old specialization ranking too since they're all well toned and balanced out. We already know the full picture of those classes, and it'd be very beneficial for people who're new or away from GW2 for some time if you make such tier list.
I really agree with your thoughts on the mechanist. I have a nerve disorder but I love this game. I play a few hours every day and have since the launch of the game. I have very little progress compared to other long-time players because I have trouble controlling my hands. A way to control the game with a little less clicking would be game-changing for me.
I can't wait for a tierlist of all elite specs, i'd love to hear your take on these new ones compared to the HoT and PoF ones. Other than that i would pretty much agree with this one, except i'd swich Vindicator and Catalyst :P. Keep it up!
I know that it's personal preferences but for me Cataalyst is "F" tier :) I played virtuoso and that was fun (daggers range was amazing, nice shinyyy skills). I wouldn't put anyone lower then Catalyst. Thx for this raanking :) nice to see your early opinion on Specs.
Same for me on Catalyst, I do not understand how the Ele, that they themselves call long range in creation, only has melee specs, who asked for budget Weaver?
Agreed. If you play Catalyst like it's intended to be played (with hammer, Catalyst utility skills, F5 Jade Sphere, No: 3 skill upkeep) it's actually unplayable. Which is ironic right. The only way you can get it to do anything is to use core ele utility skills and none of the Catalyst skills, dagger/focus or dagger/dagger instead of Hammer, basically ignore the F5 and just take the aura synergy traits for flat stat boosts and that's as far as you can go with it. I'm excited but nervous to see what changes, or if any, they've made to it in the last beta.
I didn't try revenant spec and didn't try ranger spec yet, but i can say that catalyst is definitely in the worst 3. Though I don't think anything can be worst then willbender.
Like WP said willbender is just under tunned. I'm sure it'll be fun jumping around and using the new slot skills (at least the class made sense). Catalyst isn't "bad" but the hammer and slot skill are horrible to play with. Most people must have played it like a core ele with more stats. I'd be very happy for ele main if at least they could move/retarget more easily the F5. And remove the element condition to get the bonus on the utilities
@@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500 Removing stationary from f5, removing conditions use from utilities - that will not fix the Catalyst's problem. Utilities BTW don't have even any animations... absolutely worthless. And WHAT IS THE POINT PLAYING AS CORE ELE BEING IN THE SPEC? If I want be core I don't need any expansion-that's free player. If I pay for expansion I pay ALSO for new possibilities.
Would love to see a tierlist for HoT and PoF too. Given how much effort you put into videos like the GW2 vs FF14 review, I think it's only fair you're able to do something "lazy" like a tierlist and I'm never gonna complain about more WP content.
Yes! I'd also like the video to include first impressions so we can get a bit of an insight of how the newer specializations may evolve and how our views might change completely.
I play games on a regular with couple of guys who are physically handicapped - one with cerebral palsy and one with the after effects of a serious stroke. They are very much RPG players at heart, but the selection of games is very narrow for them because of their limitations on the tasks they can execute. It has to be either extremely simple UI or turn-based/combat-pausing stuff and the latter obviously ain't an option in an MMO. The existence of specs like the minionmancer and now the mechanist makes me very happy, because I know there are people who are locked into that kind of playstyle due to physical limitations.
@@june_o9 an MMO with fast-paced combat, jump puzzles and dodge rolling might still be a tough sell for them. But I guess it's getting to the point where we could have a conversation about it :D
At first I was super excited for the ele spec as it truly seemed like it was adding something new and cool. Sadly it plays so incredibly clunky and just doesn't really do anything over core ele (which in some cases even is arguably better!), especially if you're not using the hammer. I was super disappointed that my inital main, the Mesmer gets something somewhat "boring", but after seeing all the rest of the elite's I genuinely think it looks the most refined
I'd love to see tier lists of the previous expansions elite specs! It would be great to look back on the old specs and reminisce about how we felt when they were new and fresh, and how we expected them to be implemented and how they fell short!
Compared to EoD, PoF specs brought so much to the game it was insane. The design, traits and overall flavour was simply gorgeous. EoD so far feels underwhelming but this is only beta so it's only fair we wait.
I agree. PoF brought unique specializations that seemed really special, completely complimentary or unique playstyles to the class. This one did a good job at grasping the concept of balance, in that it nerfed things to upgrade things, but each class seemed eh. Virtuoso just felt bad, like I was trading off the utility of a mesmer to deal damage. Specter thief seemed to be trading off a lot of utility to be able to do sustained damage and support. I liked willbender a lot, but it seemed to just want to trade stats for damage and mobility. I guess mobility is cool, but you dont play guardian for that. The new playstyles seemed to just be overlapping with other classes. Thief doesnt really play to be a support. Mesmer doesnt play to just be a damage stick. Guardian isnt cut out to be a mobility class. Just play thief, then. It just didnt seem that the elite specs are all that new. Just allowing classes to cross with each other
S: Bladesworn, Mechanist, A: Specter B: Vindicator C: Untamed, Willbender D: Virtuoso, Catalyst, Harbinger I think aside from the top 3, this generation of elite specs just feel so unambitious. When I think elite specs, I think of them adding insanely cool new mechanics entirely. Stuff like scourge completely changing how you use Life Force. Or Soulbeast merging you with your pet and giving you your pet's bonuses instead. Or Chronomancer giving you the ability to reset your cooldowns. Or holosmith giving you a kit with an overheating meter you have to watch. Or Deadeye giving you a rifle and giving you a running mode and a stationary sniping mode to manage. Or firebrand having tomes with pages. Or druid giving you insane healing potential the likes of which we had never seen at that point. Too many elite specs are just crowbarring in permanent team quickness and alacrity because apparently everything needs permanent quickness and alacrity now, and too few are actually revolutionizing how you play the game. Catalyst doesn't feel like it truly adds anything new, it just adds a new AoE field but nothing about that AoE field is exciting. Tempest the overcharges are crazy cool all of them. Weaver gave us sword and the fusing of elements was something new and unique. It kind of goes to show that Catalyst didn't get a traditional payoff in terms of how underbaked it feels. Harbinger is lame because they could have gone really deep into the movie monster thing again and this time given us a sort of Jekyll and Hide elite spec for the necromancer. Rather than shroud you drink an elixer that is like a mini transformation like Rampage where you're still you but you're monstrous. Which would be a good way for them to justify a squishier but very fast necromancer. Then have the elixirs swap functionality based on whether you are in monster mode or not, if you aren't you drink them. If you are transformed you throw them as AOE on the ground for debilitating effects on enemies. Almost like Glyphs. The name is also there; the Mortician. I think that would have been incredibly cool. Harbinger shroud doesn't have a really strong unique theme over core shroud. Like reaper just gave you a different shroud but the theme itself as this grim reaper is SO cool and strong thematically. This is the first time a necro elite spec isn't full on S Tier in terms of cool factor. Virtuoso is especially disappointing as my main. I really wanted a cloneless mesmer, something that feels less like a hilariously gaudy magician, and more direct mental and sabotage orientated like GW1 mesmer. I think the blades thing is a good proof of concept that you can remove clones and have them be something else. But at the end of the day it doesn't feel different enough, if anything it just feels like it removed all the flavor of mesmer with no new flavor in return. Clones and blades are ultimately little more than ammo and it doesn't fundamentally change summon clones / blades > shatter. They could have done something where instead of shatters you hex people which marks them, sort of like Deadeye's Mark, and then every time you would have summoned a clone it instead makes the hex stronger and stronger. And then you aren't just thinking about skills that generate clones and how you need 3 for your shatter, you're looking at weapons and utilities and ways to make the most clones possible you could because there's theoretically no end to the benefit of them. Also it'd feel different since you'd open with the F skill and then start casting the skills that used to summon clones after that. That was my write up on the forums years ago called the Psychomancer. Functionality Virtuoso was just unviable in PvP. Dagger just doesn't have the tools to succeed as a ranged weapon. Like compare ranger longbow or deadeye rifle. Both of them have damage skills that are good at any range, they have ways to keep enemies away and they also have answers for when an enemy actually does get in range. Virtuoso dagger is just damage, damage, damage but you have absolutely zero tools outside of that and no offhand choice gets you to the level of well roundedness as ranger longbow or deadeye rifle. It was also hilarious seeing 5 blade bladesongs not even hit close to as hard as 1 clone core mesmer shatters, thanks CMC. Virtuoso also felt especially bad because it just didn't offer anything that already exists on mesmer that doesn't already exist. It could have been an opportunity to give mesmer lots of super speed, or revealed, or chilled (Think of a trait called Brain Freeze), or stability, or poison, or healing, or Fear. Aegis wasn't great because you don't want to be in a position as a squishy caster where people are even targeting you, like fresh air ele. And the quickness on dodge wasn't good because by the time you finish dodging that quickness you gained is half gone anyway. They took the most flavorful caster in the game and turned it into the single most vanilla spellcaster I have ever seen. Bladesworn and Mechanist are without a doubt the coolest elite specs this generation even ignoring any tuning aspect and on par with any of the previous generations best elite specs. Bladesworn does need some stuff worked out, like Dragon Trigger putting Weapon Swap on cooldown. The damage numbers are disappointing in PvP too but that feels far more fixable compared to the Catalyst or Virtuoso. Mechanist is so crazy strong that I think the thing could have held its own during Path of Fire release in PvP. Specter is also super super cool, but I didn't care for the shroud at all. I only used it for the broken AF Consume Shadows trait. I loved condi and support Specter, tho. And then there's the also-rans. Vindicator is okay. Not crazy about it but the Dragoon leap is cool AF. Though to be fair I'm not crazy about rev in general. Untamed should have different Unleashed beast skills based on the kind of pet you have. Giving every pet all new skills is probably asking too much, but I think following Soulbeast's pet classifications of Stout, Deadly, Ferocious, Versatile, and Supportive would be enough. Willbender is just ehhh. I don't really feel how this thing is unique from the power revs we've seen for like half a decade now.
Hey WP! Could you perhaps redo your open world build series after EoD comes out since I'm assuming there will be alot of new options? I'm not very good at the game but those builds helped me understand each class alot better and made it more fun to play on my alts!
I'm so glad that there are still people that don't like the complexity this game's started to have, and just want a casual build which doesn't require you to be a pianist or to have 0 ping or 0 input lag, I'm just sick and tired of it, I just wanna play a more chill game lol
For myself, bladesworn was pretty much the only spec that seemed to have solid interactions with other class mechanics. The burst traits were thought out, all the ammo interactions, etc. Once it gets a couple fixes (weapon swap cd) I think it'll be a lot of fun to play! I'm also having a lot of fun with spectre atm, but I'm pretty unfamiliar with thief, so I'm not sure how much that means lol Edit: MORE LISTS! 😀
the only thing I would disagree with is that weapon swapping did feel a lot more awkward during PvP time because of channel time on pulling out gunblade which is unheard of for weapon swaps, I still think the concept is by far the best and I absolutely loved my time with it in PvE but a lot of clunkiness is still present despite having functional interaction with previous traitlines.
@@libsoric6693 I like GW2 for this. I don't like new E-specc for warrior at all. It feels like you lose one set of weapons for swap for the gunblade. The off hand pistol feels weird, and you won't play with it THAT much anyway becouse of how this e-specc work. But I don't care, there are tons of of other specializations I still didn;t played with, and seeing other people getting hyped about this specc make my happy :D
@@libsoric6693 I think that clunkiness was on purpose for game modes like PvP. It honestly makes me feel like the win condition for Bladesworn centered teams should be to focus on "protecting the president." Imagine a new style where team fights revolve around either protecting your bladesworn vs trying to kill the opposing one while the warriors channel their unblockable unblindable burst hit. I don't now if that's health for the game as it's already pretty unhealthy in harder PvE stuff lie fractals and raids but it's definitely interesting.
@@terencetrajano4591I don’t think so. They very clearly talked about how they made the pvp dragon slash scale so you barely get any benefit from charging it fully in pvp. Even fully charged, it does half as much damage as a lich auto. It has some potential as a duelist, but unless they make some dramatic changes, it won’t hold a candle to actual teamfighters.
@@duncanrobertson6472 good point. They could probably tweak the numbers to make what I said possible, but who's to say it's even a good thing? I never realized they scaled so poorly in PvP as I mostly played war in raids and catalyst in PvP for that beta, and only thought about the possibility of a Bladesworn focused PvP meta a couple weeks ago.
Thank you for voicing that Virtuoso doesn't really have a unique theme compared to core Mesmer. They had a chance to give Virtuoso a musical theme, or a circus blade thrower theme, or a blade dancer theme with ribbons/folding fans/bells... and they didn't take it
This is only with open world PVE in mind, I use all 9 classes regularly but ranger main. S Bladesworn, Mechanist, Vindicator A Untamed, Spectre B Virtuoso C Willbender D Harbringer, Catalyst F Bladesworn: Love the ammo synergies if you don't want to go all in on the dragon trigger burst, you don't have to. I was playing a sword/pistol shout build that felt super fun, and the gunblade was there like another new weapon with then the burst on top of that. It all felt really good. Mechanist: I never yearned for the golemancer archetype, but now that it's here I love it. Never liked power engi much but I'm having a blast ping ponging stuff around while golem goes ham, and the traits are super well done IMO. Reminds me of being a GW1 beastmaster Vindicator: GS felt like a mix of reaper and ranger GS, so it felt very good... Loved the dance between offense and defense. Mixed in shiro and sw/sw and I felt unstoppable in pve. Untamed: I LOVE the idea of a beastmaster focused spec. So I give them an A for the idea it's going for...execution at this moment of first beta is not on point. They need to get rid of the 10s cooldown from leashing/unleashing so that you can ACTUALLY go between CC/Defense into pay off for both you and pet. Also, I think the dmg/move speed grandmaster has a different internal CD than what it lists. It needs some tuning but give it some time and it will probably be my favorite ranger eSpec (my main) Spectre: absolutely love the shadow magic lean to it. I'm not a healer so I played it like a condi tank and it feels really good, it feels like there's a lot of aftercast they need to clean up but I think they're def. on the right track and if they put in some keybinds/UI improvements for healers they'll like it too. Virtuoso: Gets a B for the shift away from clones. Drops to B because the rest of the kit and traits feel pretty uninspired for an eSpec. Willbender: Not a fan of the f1 f2 f3 effects, they feel awkward to play around. a claw in the ground? Not a fan of only getting an offhand sword, and it felt very undertuned atm. AM a fan of the physical utility skills. Harbinger: yea it's good right now, but I think they completely dropped the design ball on an elixir using necromancer. Necro is one of my fav classes and I will probably not use this spec at all. What is the point of blight besides a balancing measure? Catalyst: I love the idea of it, love the idea of one of it's traitlines that lends itself to celestial gear (as I run core cele ele scepter/dagger) but overall...bleh. I think if they gave it weapon swap as an eSpec advantage it would solve a lot of hammer and overall issues with it.
I think they could rework Core Ranger so F5 was pet swat and F2 to F4 are pet abilities. Then make the F5 pet swap be replaced by the Elite Spec mechanics which are Celestial Avatar, Beastmode and Unleashed. Sure you would lose the F3 which commands pet back but you would make Core Ranger be more unique. Druid would not be effected as it is already about healing and generating 25 might stacks. Soulbeast could easily be added that when you leave Beastmode you would review your dead pet. Only Untamed would be effected and you could do something like ~15% less dmg when not unleased for the pet to make it more Tanky as you lose the "second life" with pet swap. Opinions to chance Ranger pet swap to F5 and be replaced by Elite Spec mechanics? Also I found Harbinger to be fun but Harbinger I think needs Green or Purple indagator over the HP bar similar how Barrier is done for better Blight feedback. You could stack that the Green goo is on top, barrier comes under it and last is your HP. Now you would get visual feedback how much blight you have. As it is currently your HP just scales and you see full hp bar. This makes you disconnect the blight as bunishing mechanic what I played Harbinger for few hours in PvE
@@xezzee i wouldn't very happy to lose pet swap on unleashed, but if the pet swap traits happened on unleashing it wouldn't be too bad. I do really love having 2 pets though, so far with untamed I've been looking at pets that give you control over the +15% GM modifier from Marksmanship, and the other pet with big damage(gazelle) so I can set them up in return with my CCs
You done the Specter a bit dirty here. I tested it soloing bandit bounties for a bit and it did just fine. It was not as quick as Mirage or Harbinger, but it worked pretty well in the killing big baddies department.
@@shizanketsuga8696 why would i even touch that shitty spec? tell me you cant understand what a rogue class is without telling u cant understand what a rogue class is. Drunk on copium
I've always felt that the new specializations should synergize with existing trait lines in some way. I didn't feel that any of these new specializations did that : they felt incomplete. Instead I got the impressions they were trying to see if the dual class system of Guild Wars 1 would work with Guild Wars 2 systems, realized it was impossible and went with the next best thing which was blending abilities in to new and surprising combinations. The lack of synergy really makes these new traits sort of float on their own in a way that separates them from the class they're apart of and I think that is something they should look in to. Guild Wars 2 runs like porridge through a coffee filter for me due to bottle neck issues with my pc but I would never want the game AI to be playing for me; I understand your sentiment though - particularly for people with physical limitations. I think pet classes like Necromancer, Ranger and now Mechanist could really do with some tweaking not to the power of the pets or the AI but to the controls so people who rely on their pets due to real life limitations don't have to feel like they aren't using any of their own skills.
I wholeheartetly agree with the mechanists asscesment. There are other builds that make it really easy to get going but all of these build require researching outside the game and they might not be intuitive. With the Mech anyone can just unlocked it and has a good kit to start of with. And the modular design of the golem is like a miniature version of a whole build that can make people curious into buildcraft. I love it !
I love playing Ranger so I was excited for the Untamed, I think it has some really interesting moves and had loads of fun teleporting around with the pet, and the hammer was a lot more enjoyable than I thought it would be 👀 (I use bow 90% so I'm not used to short range) but I do agree it doesn't feel like it really utalised the pet like they said and it needs more tweaking done too it- least this is only the beta with it so far
I actually had some fun with the hammer, it was more fun than I expected. But yeah, the pet and the “unleashed” swap was pretty badly designed. All the unleashes skills to extra damage to cc’d foes, and all the “leashed” skills do cc, but it’s literally not possible to actually utilize them together. Also, I found the whole “unleashed effect” to be really fugly.
I had some fun with the hammer but it does nothing to improve game play for rangers, in many ways it is worse than core. At the moment it is a C IMO. Hammer Engineer is much better.
I'm a thief main and I was kinda excited because I love all the previous specs but this new one lacks impact. On paper it should be doing the most Condi Damage of either specs but it felt like I did no damage and I didn't understand the point of shadow shroud as it seemed like my damage dropped even more when switching to it
Agreed, as another Thief main. When I first picked it up, I made sure to hamper my expectations from moving to a support, but boy it really did underwhelm in anything not involving the act of "healing". It might be fine if it does it's job well, but we have Mr. Firebrand over here that provides excellent support, sustain, and damage. The question that will stick for Specter is "why would I choose this over FB or Scourge?"
I really enjoyed it! I’d like to see you do it for HoT and PoF elite specs. As for my tier list: F tier: Catalyst - honestly I think that’s really lenient, this is the worst spec in the game and I’d like Anet to scrap it completely. Hammer is the only somewhat ok thing about it but everything else is Z-tier. E tier: None D tier: None C tier: Untamed - I think it just doesn’t feel very fun atm Harbinger - The idea is good but it just needs a lot of tuning. Elixirs are super lazy. B tier: Virtuoso - the concept is really cool I think but it needs a fair bit of tuning and there’s that weird mix of different themes Willbender - again, the idea is good but it just doesn’t feel that good to play atm Vindicator - I love the idea but the new mechanic feels rather clunky to use and I don’t know if Anet will be able to make it feel any better A tier: Specter - it’s not perfect by any stretch but the idea is quite original and the spec feels like a breath of fresh air. Mechanist - really solid spec even though I don’t think I’ll play it because I don’t like to rely on the golem so much S tier: Bladesworn - I don’t even play warrior but that spec felt great to me, the idea is amazing and really original
For me it is like Anet fired all the talented people when they got rid of workers there. These elite specs, what they bring compared to the older ones, and the rehash of skills feels amateur level. Only one I kinda liked is the Mechanist, the rest feels like a shuffle of other profession skills..😪
Even leaving out efficacy, I can't put Vindicator any higher than C with current design. Greatsword feels good, but everything else about the spec is super clunky and frustrating to use.
As someone who exclusively seeks out low intensity builds and eases into higher intensity until I find my middle ground, Mechanist is my favorite spec coming to EoD and I'm glad I can have a cool looking robot companion as well.
Guild Wars 2 Professions are sandboxes and the elite specializations just add more toys to the sandbox. You can create new gameplay experiences just by having a good enough imagination. The Untamed (Ranger Elite Specialization) gave players control over their pets actions, (F1, F2, F3), so I tried different pets out and found that the Moa has a healing skill. Combined with a Beast Mastery trait that allows Pet's beast skill to heal, and Rangers own healing skill, I could heal my Untamed Ranger for about 16k (8k direct healing from Moa + 8K Heal over time from Heal skill "Troll Unguent"), without healing power gear. The full control over the pet creates more build opportunities depending on the pet you choose, no hammer or unleashed skills required. This goes for the other elite specs, at first glance they may seem unimpressive but when combined with other specializations, gear or weapons they can begin to shine. Another example would be creating a Specter (Thief Elite Specialization) Condi build using Scepter, Venoms, and condi damage gear.
Interesting, when I played the beta I actually had alot of fun with the Virtuoso and a really bad time with the Bladesworn. I really couldnt get into the rhythm with the bladesworn but the virtuoso just worked out of the box for me. And as a longtime engi main Im sad to say that a pet class is basically the one thing I was hoping it wouldnt be :P. I was somehow hoping for like a mech suit or or exoskeleton or something like that^^
I always enjoy the videos but it's funny how opposite our tastes are in the classes....Virtuoso absolutely nailed it for me, it's been YEARS since I stopped for the night, went to bed, then was ready to go play the next morning thinking of it and just unlocking the spec and playing it did that for me. The mechanics are fun, the overall style is different, and the flow of everything is so different it really is its' own thing.
The fantasy Virtuoso is filling: No clones, sharp magic knives. It wasn't well implemented in the beta since so many core mesmer traits just didn't work. Presumably that will be fixed before the final beta, along with the other weird clunky bits in the first betas
lol, nice video. you can really tell WP didn't make these rankings ahead of time. "I think it's an A...No it's a B...but I don't know it might be a C...no no no it's an A..err...no it's a B...but..." I love it :)
I like the idea of future tier lists. The reason I enjoy it so much is I love your thoughts on the 360 view of each spec. I don’t really see utilizing the list for anything but more of a vessel to help guide your discussion when comparing the specs to its piers. Great video!
Got to have to disagree with spectre damage tuning aside condi spectre feels really fun In fact I like it so much i have already made up my mind on my mains that being spectre and bladesworn
the hell? condi is THE dmg on specter. thooorment hits hard (of course not as hard as scourge) with poison and bleed. if you compare it to scourge tho imma need to remind you that that spec is broken AF
@@MikePhantom that's kind of an issue with the entire game to be honest in order for these specs to even see play both scourge and firebrand need to be nerfed into the ground
@@MikePhantom it just felt weak damage wise but that might as well be an issue if build craft rather then the spec(i suck at build craft) so when actually competent people make a build(such as metabattle or hizen) these issues will likely disappear
I'm kinda tired of all the tier lists that mostly mean absolutely nothing but I enjoy hearing your thoughts on all the elite specs so I don't mind this. ^^
I enjoyed the Tier Lists. I pretty much agreed on everything, but i feel like i have to defend my poor Virtuoso. I ended up trying Viper's Virtuoso and that felt the most fun to me (though the block build was fun too). The self stacking blades - to me felt closer to what i considered the fantasy: A psionic bladesinger. The fantasy does seem a little too spread out but i like the idea of a bard/ bladesinger that conjures up psychic blades as part of their songs. I just wish there was more of an idea of the song/ bard aspect. The F4 felt a little closer to that and so did the utility: Blade Renewal - where they were channels that did stuff over time. Also Catalyst would have been D for me. Love the idea - hate how it was executed.
@@Thorrnn they can fix a lot in 4 months. Contrast that with Shadowlands which Blizz delayed only 2 weeks and fixed nothing in that time, this is 8x longer
Tbh I do like that you emphasize the importance of accessibility wrt the mechanist. I have some disappointments with the spec as it looks rn in terms of limited utility because of all you lose with the tool belt slots but I do agree that having a really strong pet and a low intensity overall spec is good and important. One of the things I like most about the GW2 community is that it does take the time to promote things like LI builds and having like a cool flashy new spec that's really made that way from the ground up, without having to go look up a whole particular build on metabattle or something. Ty for continually mentioning the importance of accessibility!
I would like to know WoodenPotatos opinion if this chance would be good or bad and how it would effect on Untamed? Chance Core Ranger to have F1 Attack, F2 to F4 pet's abilities and F5 Pet Swap. Elite Specializations would now replace the Pet Swap with new F5 ability. Or in other words They lose ability to swap pets but they do gain something else in return. Druid would gain staff and Celestial Avatar that allows Druid to heal. Losing a pet would be minor as the pet has no effect on healing as I understand it. The whole Druid is mostly been around Spirits, Staff and Celestial Avatar generating 25 might. Soulbeast would gain Beastmode that allows you to merge with pet. Even if pet dies you can still merge with the pet, so the "pets death" is not that huge of setback. You could chance that when you stop Beastmode you would review dead pet instantly adding the "second life" to the soulbeast. Unleashed would be the only thing suffering from this (everyone would lose pet command keybind F3 "return") We could easily offset by stating that Pet deals 15% more dmg when unleased but would take 15% less dmg when you are unleased. This would give the pet more survivability while losing the "second life" via pet swap. Now you could also power greep the weapons by (thanks to @KROOF's idea) giving all weapons 5 ability that becomes Unleased which chances how it works. Do you think this kind of chance would be good or bad for Ranger? This would make the Core Ranger feel more unique and make the Elite Specialization feel even more special as you replace the pet swap with something new. Or do you think this would be stupid? I would love to everyone's opinion on this idea :D Maybe we can generate enough buzz to get GW2 devs take part on this topic ... No, I'm not going to make Reddit post :^) just steal this idea and run with it.
I feel like elixers for necro could be really cool with them on your belt with colors for each skill and then when you use one it goes away or something. I wish they did more augmenting on top of the boons, like some of the reaper shouts so it really feels like solo usable but also shareable.
Great idea WP on the doing tier lists! I'd love to see how the elite specs stack up from the expansions! Now about the tier list for EOD...I know it's preference but I cannot agree with the rating for Virtuoso. Although I think some tweaks need to happen for the traits and cool downs, I had fun with the spec. Yes, the clones are gone and are a huge part of the mesmer class. However, it would be cool to amp up the skills with different weapons, not just dagger "clones". As for Catalyst, I hate to admit it since I main Ele, you are totally on point with the ranking. This spec was disappointing for me, primarily because of the jade sphere mechanic. Takes way too long to charge and lasts way too short. I can't get any benefit from the elemental fields since they don't last long and are completely stationary. I think the creature animations are great, but why can't they move with me? For me, Catalyst needs to most rework. (Longbow ele would've made more sense...). As for my top pick, it has to go to Mechanist. It was soooo much fun to play. The mace was meh, but the star here is the mech itself and the playstyle.
As for Virtuoso: How the hell do you sell losing all your clones as something desirable? "Hey, you started playing Mesmer for the core class mechanic of having clones and all its utility. How about we remove that and give you some generic damage skills?" It's as if Virtuoso was the base class and getting clones was the elite spec. That would've been a much more exciting scenario.
I had a write up for a cloneless mesmer elite spec called the Psychomancer, on the forums a few years back. Instead of shatters you hex people which marks them, sort of like Deadeye's Mark, and then every time you would have summoned a clone it instead makes the hex stronger and stronger for various extremely debilitating effects. And then you aren't just thinking about skills that generate clones and how you need 3 for your shatter, you're looking at weapons and utilities and ways to make the most clones possible you could because there's theoretically no end to the benefit of them. Also it'd feel different since you'd open with the hex F skill and then start casting the skills that used to summon clones after that.
It's "sold" the exact same way soulbeast was. "People that picked ranger but hate the pet can now get rid of the pet." People that want to be a mesmer but don't want clones now have a spec for them.
@@Ashendal Except what made soulbeast cool was that you could apply the beast stats and trait and skill bonuses to yourself and you can use your pet skills yourself. Virtuoso is just "you don't have clones all your shatters are worse" with nothing gained from it. The only thing carrying it in PvE was how hilariously overtuned the elite skill was in PvE.
f2 on Vindicator is a joke and it's better on core legends. The flipover is a mess and Alliance skills are awful. The spec lacks CC and damage. And as a supporter is worse than Herald and Renegade.
@@WoodenPotatoes Well you did bring in tuning in your video as well so it's kinda the pot calling the kettle black if you will. As for the vindicator, I just hate the fact that there are two spirits in this e-spec instead of one and they have opposite skills pretty much and you have to alternate between them. If you were able to pick one of them instead of being forced to use both I would be a lot happier. I mean, you have to alternate between support and dps, you have to as the utilities are fixed. You don't get to choose and that's why I don't like this e-spec and will likely not play it. As a sidenote, I just think that with the Mechanic having a jade-based golem and both a Luxon and Kurzick spirit in this e-spec, the Kurzick faction (which is the most popular faction in GW1) got the short end of the stick as far as representation goes.
Spectre should have been at least A. While you might have had mediocre experiences with it, it is a spec that completely overhauls thf and support in this game and the theme fits exactly what it does and how it looks. It's a spec that has a high learning curve, but that should not count against it.
About Specter. At the moment it's a super carry that can rezz people on range in an instant with very low cooldown and provides perma alac + quickness for 5 people. Only thing it's lacking as a support is prot.
My mum already plays GW2, but she is for sure a skill clicker (and having tons of fun!) and I get your point about the Mechanist. I think it is a good idea, too.
Catalyst on C and Virtuoso on D! Yeah, no! I don't think so. Swap them and you're on to something. Other than that, this tier list was spot on! Good job.
Virtuoso is basically core mesmer though but with daggers instead of clones, very uninspired and boring. Needs a total redesign At least catalyst had a cool idea, it just needs dramatic implementation fixes.
Hmmm.... I hate to say it, but having them all listed out has made me realise I actually don't like any of them. I've always been a ranged spell caster and none of them hit the mark for me. The Spectre comes the closest, but as you say, it's fully support which is quite lame for a solo option. I appreciate my tastes aren't for everyone but it feels like Arenanet have decided melee/physicality is the only play style they wish to pursue and neglected all else, which personally I find very disappointing. The elites are always my favourite part of the expansion. To have that refreshing feeling of new gameplay style and a new fantasy, and these have really put me off EoD as a whole
The Bladesworn has some neat stuff but it feels like it's trying to fill too many niches all at once. It simultaneously offers the big damage Dragon Slash but also it looks to be easily best in slot for healing support just because of the elite (which isn't exactly the most interesting way of achieving that goal either). Lack of standard burst on normal weapons also feels quite bad for a lot of weapons. Pistol and Dragon Slash are really neat but I think trying to run shouts on this would feel really awkward even if it ends up being effective. You have a weaker version of your standard weapon and the very centralizing new weapon and they don't seem to fit well with shout builds. Making good use of Soldier's Comfort feels awkward on Bladesworn so support heal REALLY is going to be about spamming shouts and nothing else. I also somewhat have to question the health of open world with Bladesworns running around instantly killing targets with Dragon Slash and what that could potentially do for tagging purposes. Maybe not so much due to the startup but it's something I wonder about. Can 5 Bladesworns instantly kill an unscaled Champion I wonder? There's at least some potential for griefing play here I think kind of like when mount engages needed to be nerfed in lower level areas.
I've been a ranger main since the headstart in 2012 and i cant express how disappointed i am with how the new ranger feels, almost like theres no reason to switch pets or make the pet untamed ever. mechanist on the other hand feels INSANELY fun, almost as fun as Holo
If you put guardian and rev in A tier and can justify guardian even though it was so underwhelming then Spectre deserves the same treatment. It’s condi support is underwhelming now but it can be tuned for better numerical support. If you went too far with it, you’d be up with people focusing more on trying to top dps than to support which is the function of the spec. It’s the first spec that has true customization of its support capabilities. Most other specs (all expacs included) have on and off switches for their roles, you do dmg, you support, you do condi. It’s much much much more interesting when it’s a sliding bar that you can tweak into where you most prefer than to be forced into doing one thing or another. If they tweak the support you would be able to opt into more condi focus while having some QoL support for the group. If you focus on support, you do have some condi to make up for losing a slot for a damage dealer. The new guardian is an over loaded spec like firebrand was, it’s just this time we see it under tuned but kit wise it’s on par to be another firebrand but less scope of roles.
I'm not impressed by the specs efficacy wise, but the lore and aesthetic wise, omg, they are wonderful!!! My personal list: 1) guardian 2) engineer 3) warrior 4) the rest 😁
My main gripes: (key elements in bold for skimming) Willbender - *the Virtues lost their passives meaning I can't reliably do a condi build anymore unless I'm in melee.* Also, the Virtues are mouse directed instead of target directed - which means for players like me who rarely use their mouse courser we can easily get dashed in the wrong direction and completely F up the fight - and the snap to target setting does not work on these skills. Bladesworn - *the loss of unique burst abilities really bothers me because now a significant reason to play multiple weapons is completely gone.* One of the biggest benefits to playing Warrior Longbow was its giant fire field burst, but with Bladesworn that's just gone and replaced with a melee skill that is the same for all weapons. *Also, the decision to make Pistol an offhand weapon absolutely annoys me because it means Warrior STILL does not have access to a single mid-range weapon, either main-hand or two-handed.* Vindicator - I did find the flip over skills to feel really awkward and uninteresting but my main issue is that core Revenant has only the Hammer for a ranged weapon, and that weapon has issues. *The last thing the Revenant needed was another melee weapon.* Some people have commented to this by asking if having two ranged elites in a row makes sense - and I answer every time that it does if it's what the class needs access to. *The Engineer got THREE melee elite weapons in a row because it didn't have access to any melee in core, so there's no reason to not expect a class lacking in ranged options to not get multiple ranged options in a row to fill build diversity needs.* Untamed - While I appreciate and like the idea to rampage with the pet and I also really like gaining control of the pets' skills, I agree that the implementation is wonked. *The Pets' Unleashed skills are the same for all pets which really removes a big part of pet identity imo.* It makes no sense to me to have a Wolf given a poison skill, etc. I'm not suggesting that each pet be unique, instead *I'm advocating that each pet FAMILY be unique like what was done in Soulbeast.* They don't have to make the skills entirely different in that regard either, *just modify parts of the skills to reflect what pet family is doing the action.* F1 Unleashed can still be a teleport for example, but if the poison doesn't make sense for Canines or Cats then let that side effect be different. I also believe that if all Ranger weapons can't receive the Unleashed skill swap mechanic, then *there should be some additional benefit to being unleashed yourself (I felt the current damage bonus to be less than effective).* I'll stop here as these are my most cemented opinions and this wall of text is already super long.
I like the idea virtuoso, never played the beta so maybe its crap but I hate clones and summons. Making it into a purple dagger wizard sounds much more up my alley.
Specter is actually pretty insane DPS. I got up to ~37k with it (as a player used to action camera, playing terribly without), without Allies to Share Spider, Skale and Rot Wallow Venoms to (with allies I can see this breaking 45k DPS). This thing is easily more overtuned than Harbinger, all while having a 150% HP Shroud with barely any degeneration and more robust skills, Traits and core integration, more mobility, stealth, support, etc. (DA: 3;2;1. Trickery: x;3;2. Specter: 3;1;1. Viper, Tormenting, Bursting, Torment; Well of Sorrow, Spider, Skale, Thieves Guild. Spam Sc/D 3, Shroud 2,4,5,2 when out of initiative, Well, Venoms, Thieves guild on CD) Similarly for OW play, with Tormenting Runes and the Shadow Force generation from Larcenous Torment fueling Consume Shadows this thing is great for solo play. As a support in Fractal CM's, I solo healed and managed perma Quickness (excluding self), Alac, Fury, decent prot uptime etc., and as long as people stack it's pretty much perma full health, max barrier on everybody (Consume Shadows + Shadow Savior and Traversing Dusk, Sc/P 3 Spam) - in addition to being able to Shadow Step/Portal skip. The only thing that's really, really awkward on support Specter is having to guess breakbars and HP/Phase thresholds when targeting and focusing on allies. Even if Specter didn't have that single target tether gimmick at all, it's imo the S Tier of S Tiers. At least once they fix the glaring random teleport and targeting bugs, primarily with Action Cam. If you are looking for the Dark Caster with DPS, Support and solo play options, you will definitely find it on Specter.
This was most excellent and gave me a good overview of how the new specs played out. I would love it if you did additional tier lists for the other expansions’ elite specs. Actually a tier list of core professions would be great too!
I'd like to echo the sentiment of wanting to see more tier lists, it's just such an enjoyable format for me. Another thing I'd love to see are community polls to compare and contrast where your viewers rank these specs!
Would love a BIG tierlist with all elite specs in the game PLUS the core specs! That would be an awesome video. Not just power but gameplay/fantasy feel etc.
I wonder if these particular specs are the first cracks in the "elite specialization" model. It makes me wonder about crunch and planning for the devs. They all but said they dropped everything to work on this expack and I... I don't know what to feel here.
Personally, I'd put Mechanist in the B tier, but only due the fact that I'm kinda used to be alone -- the engineer IS the machine so far. Even with the latest change in Scrapper, in which they turned the gyros into wells that run with you, the engineer feels even more like the lone runner; holosmith is the one that keeps hitting things and gets hot and their own heat burns enemies. And support feels mostly accidental than direct (trait that healing you heals people around you, toolkit that push vapors to heal people around you and so on). Again, not saying that mechnist is bad, it just feels weird when we changed the behaviour we are used since almost forever.
That's mostly because firebrand is SS+ ;p -> super fun, different and strong I'm sure a part of why the new specs are what they are is because of FB, scourge and maybe the old 2 dogde mirage in pvp. They are a blast to play and unique but very hard to balance because of that
I wouldn’t say tier lists are lazy, they’re easy content yes but with good discussion and interesting opinions they’re fun easy to just listen to content. I would love to see you do tierlist for the other elite specs and maybe a core class one too.
To illustrate clearly my mindset here, because several in the comments are missing it: I don't care about specific balance and tuning in the beta. If it's weak because of specific number issues, or OP because of specific number issues, that's not what I'm really interested in. We're talking design, fantasy, mechanics, customisation. Balance will come and go, these things are permanent.
I found your take on it really interesting and I genuinely liked it while I may not agree with all of it, I also didn't get around to playing all it. Was mainly surprised to hear you play league of legends at some point I use to play was in Diamond-Master's elo but the game got a bit too low carry potential in my opinion especially with the amount of items they added in that had some form of low cd point and click high reward usage like playing any position reliant character while there was a prowler's claw in play :(
I like the way you think. I agree on grading the specs on their concept and implementation of the concept. Because the numbers can easily be changed and will be changed. And I agree about having specs that are accessible to everyone. I love this game and want to see it grow.
thats the correct way to go about it.
I agree with you about balancing numbers. That's whatever. But I want to quibble about one thing. You specifically say design, but design is the entire problem with most of them. I'm not talking about aesthetic design, I'm talking in terms of player agency and player choice. There are three very large things that aren't being discussed nearly as much as they ought to be.
First, and most obnoxious, is how insular the traits are and how they miss the mark both ways - from the extreme Mechanist trait design of removing choice and synergy all together beyond the very basic dot or power damage to the exact opposite with the Untamed where you have a lot of trait choices but none of them are significant or change the way you play. The traits either don't synergize with the base classes or are too vague to really be build-arounds. These sort of insular trait issues are present in all nine of them, but these two are the most glaringly obvious.
Secondly, a lot of the classes that can't see the forest from the trees - Vindicator, Catalyst, Specter - where the implementation of the class mechanic is convoluted. Flipping abilities is fine and good, but what is the benefit of it? To be more versatile? I can already switch everything about my character anywhere in the world. Combo fields are fun, but Elementalist already had a plethora of combo effects, so what does all of the Catalyst stuff do, precisely? The Specter having to target other is people potentially exciting, but having a buddy system all the time is not.
Third, a lot of them are uninspired and don't actually change the base class enough to warrant elite specialization status. Virtuoso is just Greatsword Mesmer but the clones are now combo points. Willbender is just Guardian with mobility. Untamed is Greatsword Ranger but without enough extra steps to feel different. The Mechanist without the pet is actually significantly worse than just being an Engineer.
The only ones that really feel well-iterated on are Bladesworn and Harbinger, where they do offer variety in trait selection, have new and obvious and unique mechanics, and actually build upon the base classes in a meaningful way. All of the others feel half-baked in some way and no one trusts Arena Net enough to put them back in the oven and fix them. That's the problem.
@@nucklepuckk i think that is a good way of doing a tier list, but in your actual video you rank some of the specs based on power/current balance at some points so i would pay attention to the consistancy of the ranking so it makes more sense. you do very well thoughout videos and setting very defined things and trying to stick to them might make tier lists like this better, enjoyable overall.
Suggestion for the intro to GW2 series: Ranking all the minigames from crab toss to sanctum sprint
Keg brawl S, everything else F
I just want Kegbrawl during Dragonbash to be playable at all times, is that too much to ask? Pffffttt
@@R_SENAL i wish they would add proper match making for the minigames. even if it is just an option for private matches due to low player count; it'd be great to be able to arrange stuff like guild vs guild kegbrawl matches or even tournaments.
Minigames are what anet does worst
I love the omnomberry drinking contest, Belcher's bluff
From an older player, I wanted to thank you for thinking of us. Yes, we need a lower intensity playstyle like the Mechanist to make the game more accessible.
that and a gazillion less particles so i don't end up squinting through one eye while nursing my increasing headache :)
@@aguy6833 I second that. I literally cannot see some raid or fractal mechanics because of ridiculous sparkly skills/auras/infusions and the terrible post processing this game has.
Mechanist seems to be what phantasm mesmer used to be.
Guess I gotta reroll now
@William George Would you mind sharing your DD build? I struggle with Thief and die too quickly. I main Ranger but go to Minion Master Reaper or Scourge if I really want to take things slow.
same, i'm only 29 but i have chronic pain so i can usually only play high intensity builds for 2 hours at absolute maximum. I'm very much a soulbeast player tho so i'll have to see how the new elite for ranger is ^^'
Would love to see similar tier lists for the previous expacs, kinda like a retrospective as we look forward to the newness of EOD
THIS
I have chronic migraines, making it difficult to do much in high-intensity game modes, which means that playstyles with low skill requirements are downright essential for my enjoyment. I consider myself a competent player, but I can't always put a ton of energy into the game because I just don't have the energy to give. As a result, Mechanist has been a godsend. I've been playing it constantly for the past three days, and even with all the clunkiness of the mech's AI it still feels incredible to me. It's even raid viable, with the alacrity/barrier build. I think the thing that needs some work on it is the mace; the mech itself is incredible.
On Mechanist: Every single Holosmith trait only effects Photon Forge as well
True, and I'd say Holosmith is worst of because of it. Nothing in Holosmith makes you use core skills differently, you just use them to fill the gaps in the Holo Forge gameloop. Holosmith is still fine though cause you can really engage with the forge. The mekanist however leaves the engineer with nothing new to do besides commanding their pet. Mace just brings the same play, but weaker, as both scrapper and Holosmith does with sword and hammer, and the only alternatives are core skills that functions just like they do on any elite spec.
Mekanist needs something that makes us reevaluate rifle, pistol, toolkit, etc perhaps some interplay between the golem and the mekanist, like golem skills that cause lots of blast finishers, and thus the engineer want to make combo fields for it with mortar or bomb kit.
@@engilaru I don't think that elite specs "need" things that make us re-evaluate the base class. It's brilliant when it happens, and I'd always ask for it. But saying it's a "need" is totally wrong. Elite specs do not replace your profession, the influence of the core stuff is always there to interact with. E.g elixir S prime light beam type stuff. Holosmith is fantastic, the fact it can be cited as an example here proves exactly why direct interactions with old stuff isn't essential. (Holo does interact well with tools and it has an explosion component BTW)
@@engilaru oh please no, just like he said in the video we need good low skill specs in the game, I dont mind admitting I need a low skill spec that feels fun to play im one of those people.
@@WoodenPotatoes Lets not be pedantic about the word "need", thats not helpful at all. Sure the spec doesn't "need" to make everyone happy, or anyone for that matter, a spec doesn't have intrinsic "needs" unless we assign a purpose. In my opinion, the implied purpose for these specs is to be brilliant. As you said, it would be brilliant if it had it, so lets ask for it while we can.
What we should do is recognize shortcomings and especially during a beta, look for ways to improve every elite spec to make them more apealing and enjoyable to a larger audience. Just because its fine doesn't mean it can't be better.
Also I said Skills, not Traits. Holosmith doesn't make explosive skills different. It rides on explosive traits sure, but doesn't deliver anything back to the core skills.
Even your example of Elixir S is the Elixir enhancing your ability to use the Holosmith stuff, not the other way around. Scrapper on the other hand has some interesting traits that inspires you to revisit old skills and see them in new light.
@@laughing_man Nothing I said had anything against the existance of simple easy playstyles to be availible on the mekanist. I enjoy that myself from time to time. But there are traits and skills to choose from, let some of them be for easy mode and some add some complexity and depth for those who want that.
Love the ranger intro
LOL I have NO IDEA how that got there wtf
Enjoyed the tier list! Definitely wouldn’t mind seeing more stuff like this
Hear hear, more tier lists please. And you should update all 27 of them periodically. I'll watch them all.
I think they have done a great job with the thief specializations. Daredevil, Deadeye, and Specter all have unique use cases and lots of mix and matching within the trait lines. For Specter, I'm quite excited to finally have a class to babysit new players with, and the thief is perfect for that. I can invite friends to the game and focus on making them have a ton of fun. Single target heals and barriers to keep them alive, stealth to help them escape, one-way portal to bring them to fun areas. I don't think there is another spec better for exploring open world with a new player/friend.
Right! It will be very fun to provide all the utility of stealth, portal and now also heal and boon support! The trait that lets you save someone from a certain death by tethering to them last second is cool!
Would be really excited about a tier list about old specialization ranking too since they're all well toned and balanced out.
We already know the full picture of those classes, and it'd be very beneficial for people who're new or away from GW2 for some time if you make such tier list.
Really agree on this!
I really agree with your thoughts on the mechanist. I have a nerve disorder but I love this game. I play a few hours every day and have since the launch of the game. I have very little progress compared to other long-time players because I have trouble controlling my hands. A way to control the game with a little less clicking would be game-changing for me.
I can't wait for a tierlist of all elite specs, i'd love to hear your take on these new ones compared to the HoT and PoF ones. Other than that i would pretty much agree with this one, except i'd swich Vindicator and Catalyst :P. Keep it up!
Daredevil is definitely at the top.
And spellbreaker at the bottom?
I know that it's personal preferences but for me Cataalyst is "F" tier :) I played virtuoso and that was fun (daggers range was amazing, nice shinyyy skills). I wouldn't put anyone lower then Catalyst. Thx for this raanking :) nice to see your early opinion on Specs.
Same for me on Catalyst, I do not understand how the Ele, that they themselves call long range in creation, only has melee specs, who asked for budget Weaver?
Agreed. If you play Catalyst like it's intended to be played (with hammer, Catalyst utility skills, F5 Jade Sphere, No: 3 skill upkeep) it's actually unplayable. Which is ironic right. The only way you can get it to do anything is to use core ele utility skills and none of the Catalyst skills, dagger/focus or dagger/dagger instead of Hammer, basically ignore the F5 and just take the aura synergy traits for flat stat boosts and that's as far as you can go with it. I'm excited but nervous to see what changes, or if any, they've made to it in the last beta.
I didn't try revenant spec and didn't try ranger spec yet, but i can say that catalyst is definitely in the worst 3. Though I don't think anything can be worst then willbender.
Like WP said willbender is just under tunned. I'm sure it'll be fun jumping around and using the new slot skills (at least the class made sense). Catalyst isn't "bad" but the hammer and slot skill are horrible to play with. Most people must have played it like a core ele with more stats. I'd be very happy for ele main if at least they could move/retarget more easily the F5. And remove the element condition to get the bonus on the utilities
@@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500 Removing stationary from f5, removing conditions use from utilities - that will not fix the Catalyst's problem. Utilities BTW don't have even any animations... absolutely worthless. And WHAT IS THE POINT PLAYING AS CORE ELE BEING IN THE SPEC? If I want be core I don't need any expansion-that's free player. If I pay for expansion I pay ALSO for new possibilities.
Would love to see a tierlist for HoT and PoF too. Given how much effort you put into videos like the GW2 vs FF14 review, I think it's only fair you're able to do something "lazy" like a tierlist and I'm never gonna complain about more WP content.
Yes! I'd also like the video to include first impressions so we can get a bit of an insight of how the newer specializations may evolve and how our views might change completely.
I play games on a regular with couple of guys who are physically handicapped - one with cerebral palsy and one with the after effects of a serious stroke. They are very much RPG players at heart, but the selection of games is very narrow for them because of their limitations on the tasks they can execute. It has to be either extremely simple UI or turn-based/combat-pausing stuff and the latter obviously ain't an option in an MMO. The existence of specs like the minionmancer and now the mechanist makes me very happy, because I know there are people who are locked into that kind of playstyle due to physical limitations.
That's so cool to hear it! Have they tried GW2 previously? U think with those new specs, they can give it a go? :)
@@june_o9 an MMO with fast-paced combat, jump puzzles and dodge rolling might still be a tough sell for them. But I guess it's getting to the point where we could have a conversation about it :D
@@Sicktoid Best of luck then :) I do hope that in the future GW2 will be even more accessible for them :)
At first I was super excited for the ele spec as it truly seemed like it was adding something new and cool. Sadly it plays so incredibly clunky and just doesn't really do anything over core ele (which in some cases even is arguably better!), especially if you're not using the hammer.
I was super disappointed that my inital main, the Mesmer gets something somewhat "boring", but after seeing all the rest of the elite's I genuinely think it looks the most refined
I'd love to see tier lists of the previous expansions elite specs! It would be great to look back on the old specs and reminisce about how we felt when they were new and fresh, and how we expected them to be implemented and how they fell short!
Staring at the icons for 20 minutes made me realise how much i like them. Probably the best set of icons.
Actually same!
Agree 💯
Compared to EoD, PoF specs brought so much to the game it was insane. The design, traits and overall flavour was simply gorgeous. EoD so far feels underwhelming but this is only beta so it's only fair we wait.
I agree.
PoF brought unique specializations that seemed really special, completely complimentary or unique playstyles to the class.
This one did a good job at grasping the concept of balance, in that it nerfed things to upgrade things, but each class seemed eh.
Virtuoso just felt bad, like I was trading off the utility of a mesmer to deal damage.
Specter thief seemed to be trading off a lot of utility to be able to do sustained damage and support.
I liked willbender a lot, but it seemed to just want to trade stats for damage and mobility.
I guess mobility is cool, but you dont play guardian for that.
The new playstyles seemed to just be overlapping with other classes.
Thief doesnt really play to be a support. Mesmer doesnt play to just be a damage stick. Guardian isnt cut out to be a mobility class. Just play thief, then.
It just didnt seem that the elite specs are all that new. Just allowing classes to cross with each other
S: Bladesworn, Mechanist,
A: Specter
B: Vindicator
C: Untamed, Willbender
D: Virtuoso, Catalyst, Harbinger
I think aside from the top 3, this generation of elite specs just feel so unambitious. When I think elite specs, I think of them adding insanely cool new mechanics entirely. Stuff like scourge completely changing how you use Life Force. Or Soulbeast merging you with your pet and giving you your pet's bonuses instead. Or Chronomancer giving you the ability to reset your cooldowns. Or holosmith giving you a kit with an overheating meter you have to watch. Or Deadeye giving you a rifle and giving you a running mode and a stationary sniping mode to manage. Or firebrand having tomes with pages. Or druid giving you insane healing potential the likes of which we had never seen at that point. Too many elite specs are just crowbarring in permanent team quickness and alacrity because apparently everything needs permanent quickness and alacrity now, and too few are actually revolutionizing how you play the game.
Catalyst doesn't feel like it truly adds anything new, it just adds a new AoE field but nothing about that AoE field is exciting. Tempest the overcharges are crazy cool all of them. Weaver gave us sword and the fusing of elements was something new and unique. It kind of goes to show that Catalyst didn't get a traditional payoff in terms of how underbaked it feels.
Harbinger is lame because they could have gone really deep into the movie monster thing again and this time given us a sort of Jekyll and Hide elite spec for the necromancer. Rather than shroud you drink an elixer that is like a mini transformation like Rampage where you're still you but you're monstrous. Which would be a good way for them to justify a squishier but very fast necromancer. Then have the elixirs swap functionality based on whether you are in monster mode or not, if you aren't you drink them. If you are transformed you throw them as AOE on the ground for debilitating effects on enemies. Almost like Glyphs. The name is also there; the Mortician. I think that would have been incredibly cool. Harbinger shroud doesn't have a really strong unique theme over core shroud. Like reaper just gave you a different shroud but the theme itself as this grim reaper is SO cool and strong thematically. This is the first time a necro elite spec isn't full on S Tier in terms of cool factor.
Virtuoso is especially disappointing as my main. I really wanted a cloneless mesmer, something that feels less like a hilariously gaudy magician, and more direct mental and sabotage orientated like GW1 mesmer. I think the blades thing is a good proof of concept that you can remove clones and have them be something else. But at the end of the day it doesn't feel different enough, if anything it just feels like it removed all the flavor of mesmer with no new flavor in return. Clones and blades are ultimately little more than ammo and it doesn't fundamentally change summon clones / blades > shatter.
They could have done something where instead of shatters you hex people which marks them, sort of like Deadeye's Mark, and then every time you would have summoned a clone it instead makes the hex stronger and stronger. And then you aren't just thinking about skills that generate clones and how you need 3 for your shatter, you're looking at weapons and utilities and ways to make the most clones possible you could because there's theoretically no end to the benefit of them. Also it'd feel different since you'd open with the F skill and then start casting the skills that used to summon clones after that. That was my write up on the forums years ago called the Psychomancer.
Functionality Virtuoso was just unviable in PvP. Dagger just doesn't have the tools to succeed as a ranged weapon. Like compare ranger longbow or deadeye rifle. Both of them have damage skills that are good at any range, they have ways to keep enemies away and they also have answers for when an enemy actually does get in range. Virtuoso dagger is just damage, damage, damage but you have absolutely zero tools outside of that and no offhand choice gets you to the level of well roundedness as ranger longbow or deadeye rifle. It was also hilarious seeing 5 blade bladesongs not even hit close to as hard as 1 clone core mesmer shatters, thanks CMC.
Virtuoso also felt especially bad because it just didn't offer anything that already exists on mesmer that doesn't already exist. It could have been an opportunity to give mesmer lots of super speed, or revealed, or chilled (Think of a trait called Brain Freeze), or stability, or poison, or healing, or Fear. Aegis wasn't great because you don't want to be in a position as a squishy caster where people are even targeting you, like fresh air ele. And the quickness on dodge wasn't good because by the time you finish dodging that quickness you gained is half gone anyway. They took the most flavorful caster in the game and turned it into the single most vanilla spellcaster I have ever seen.
Bladesworn and Mechanist are without a doubt the coolest elite specs this generation even ignoring any tuning aspect and on par with any of the previous generations best elite specs. Bladesworn does need some stuff worked out, like Dragon Trigger putting Weapon Swap on cooldown. The damage numbers are disappointing in PvP too but that feels far more fixable compared to the Catalyst or Virtuoso. Mechanist is so crazy strong that I think the thing could have held its own during Path of Fire release in PvP. Specter is also super super cool, but I didn't care for the shroud at all. I only used it for the broken AF Consume Shadows trait. I loved condi and support Specter, tho.
And then there's the also-rans. Vindicator is okay. Not crazy about it but the Dragoon leap is cool AF. Though to be fair I'm not crazy about rev in general. Untamed should have different Unleashed beast skills based on the kind of pet you have. Giving every pet all new skills is probably asking too much, but I think following Soulbeast's pet classifications of Stout, Deadly, Ferocious, Versatile, and Supportive would be enough. Willbender is just ehhh. I don't really feel how this thing is unique from the power revs we've seen for like half a decade now.
Hey WP!
Could you perhaps redo your open world build series after EoD comes out since I'm assuming there will be alot of new options? I'm not very good at the game but those builds helped me understand each class alot better and made it more fun to play on my alts!
I'm so glad that there are still people that don't like the complexity this game's started to have, and just want a casual build which doesn't require you to be a pianist or to have 0 ping or 0 input lag, I'm just sick and tired of it, I just wanna play a more chill game lol
For myself, bladesworn was pretty much the only spec that seemed to have solid interactions with other class mechanics. The burst traits were thought out, all the ammo interactions, etc. Once it gets a couple fixes (weapon swap cd) I think it'll be a lot of fun to play!
I'm also having a lot of fun with spectre atm, but I'm pretty unfamiliar with thief, so I'm not sure how much that means lol
Edit: MORE LISTS! 😀
the only thing I would disagree with is that weapon swapping did feel a lot more awkward during PvP time because of channel time on pulling out gunblade which is unheard of for weapon swaps, I still think the concept is by far the best and I absolutely loved my time with it in PvE but a lot of clunkiness is still present despite having functional interaction with previous traitlines.
@@libsoric6693 I like GW2 for this.
I don't like new E-specc for warrior at all. It feels like you lose one set of weapons for swap for the gunblade. The off hand pistol feels weird, and you won't play with it THAT much anyway becouse of how this e-specc work. But I don't care, there are tons of of other specializations I still didn;t played with, and seeing other people getting hyped about this specc make my happy :D
@@libsoric6693 I think that clunkiness was on purpose for game modes like PvP. It honestly makes me feel like the win condition for Bladesworn centered teams should be to focus on "protecting the president." Imagine a new style where team fights revolve around either protecting your bladesworn vs trying to kill the opposing one while the warriors channel their unblockable unblindable burst hit. I don't now if that's health for the game as it's already pretty unhealthy in harder PvE stuff lie fractals and raids but it's definitely interesting.
@@terencetrajano4591I don’t think so. They very clearly talked about how they made the pvp dragon slash scale so you barely get any benefit from charging it fully in pvp. Even fully charged, it does half as much damage as a lich auto. It has some potential as a duelist, but unless they make some dramatic changes, it won’t hold a candle to actual teamfighters.
@@duncanrobertson6472 good point. They could probably tweak the numbers to make what I said possible, but who's to say it's even a good thing? I never realized they scaled so poorly in PvP as I mostly played war in raids and catalyst in PvP for that beta, and only thought about the possibility of a Bladesworn focused PvP meta a couple weeks ago.
Thank you for voicing that Virtuoso doesn't really have a unique theme compared to core Mesmer. They had a chance to give Virtuoso a musical theme, or a circus blade thrower theme, or a blade dancer theme with ribbons/folding fans/bells... and they didn't take it
"It makes me hard to assess it" (11:27)
That's ok WP, it's your passion for this franchise that we appreciate you for 😉
Lmao yes I appear to have gotten quite excited there.
This is only with open world PVE in mind, I use all 9 classes regularly but ranger main.
S Bladesworn, Mechanist, Vindicator
A Untamed, Spectre
B Virtuoso
C Willbender
D Harbringer, Catalyst
F
Bladesworn: Love the ammo synergies if you don't want to go all in on the dragon trigger burst, you don't have to. I was playing a sword/pistol shout build that felt super fun, and the gunblade was there like another new weapon with then the burst on top of that. It all felt really good.
Mechanist: I never yearned for the golemancer archetype, but now that it's here I love it. Never liked power engi much but I'm having a blast ping ponging stuff around while golem goes ham, and the traits are super well done IMO. Reminds me of being a GW1 beastmaster
Vindicator: GS felt like a mix of reaper and ranger GS, so it felt very good... Loved the dance between offense and defense. Mixed in shiro and sw/sw and I felt unstoppable in pve.
Untamed: I LOVE the idea of a beastmaster focused spec. So I give them an A for the idea it's going for...execution at this moment of first beta is not on point. They need to get rid of the 10s cooldown from leashing/unleashing so that you can ACTUALLY go between CC/Defense into pay off for both you and pet. Also, I think the dmg/move speed grandmaster has a different internal CD than what it lists. It needs some tuning but give it some time and it will probably be my favorite ranger eSpec (my main)
Spectre: absolutely love the shadow magic lean to it. I'm not a healer so I played it like a condi tank and it feels really good, it feels like there's a lot of aftercast they need to clean up but I think they're def. on the right track and if they put in some keybinds/UI improvements for healers they'll like it too.
Virtuoso: Gets a B for the shift away from clones. Drops to B because the rest of the kit and traits feel pretty uninspired for an eSpec.
Willbender: Not a fan of the f1 f2 f3 effects, they feel awkward to play around. a claw in the ground? Not a fan of only getting an offhand sword, and it felt very undertuned atm. AM a fan of the physical utility skills.
Harbinger: yea it's good right now, but I think they completely dropped the design ball on an elixir using necromancer. Necro is one of my fav classes and I will probably not use this spec at all. What is the point of blight besides a balancing measure?
Catalyst: I love the idea of it, love the idea of one of it's traitlines that lends itself to celestial gear (as I run core cele ele scepter/dagger) but overall...bleh. I think if they gave it weapon swap as an eSpec advantage it would solve a lot of hammer and overall issues with it.
I think they could rework Core Ranger so F5 was pet swat and F2 to F4 are pet abilities. Then make the F5 pet swap be replaced by the Elite Spec mechanics which are Celestial Avatar, Beastmode and Unleashed. Sure you would lose the F3 which commands pet back but you would make Core Ranger be more unique. Druid would not be effected as it is already about healing and generating 25 might stacks. Soulbeast could easily be added that when you leave Beastmode you would review your dead pet. Only Untamed would be effected and you could do something like ~15% less dmg when not unleased for the pet to make it more Tanky as you lose the "second life" with pet swap.
Opinions to chance Ranger pet swap to F5 and be replaced by Elite Spec mechanics?
Also I found Harbinger to be fun but Harbinger I think needs Green or Purple indagator over the HP bar similar how Barrier is done for better Blight feedback. You could stack that the Green goo is on top, barrier comes under it and last is your HP. Now you would get visual feedback how much blight you have. As it is currently your HP just scales and you see full hp bar. This makes you disconnect the blight as bunishing mechanic what I played Harbinger for few hours in PvE
@@xezzee i wouldn't very happy to lose pet swap on unleashed, but if the pet swap traits happened on unleashing it wouldn't be too bad. I do really love having 2 pets though, so far with untamed I've been looking at pets that give you control over the +15% GM modifier from Marksmanship, and the other pet with big damage(gazelle) so I can set them up in return with my CCs
You done the Specter a bit dirty here. I tested it soloing bandit bounties for a bit and it did just fine. It was not as quick as Mirage or Harbinger, but it worked pretty well in the killing big baddies department.
it isnt a thief spec its just some shitty necro, it should be f tier and shouldve been deleted with catalyst
@@bernardo879 Tell me you don't know how to Spectre without telling me you don't know how to Spectre.
@@shizanketsuga8696 why would i even touch that shitty spec? tell me you cant understand what a rogue class is without telling u cant understand what a rogue class is. Drunk on copium
I've always felt that the new specializations should synergize with existing trait lines in some way. I didn't feel that any of these new specializations did that : they felt incomplete. Instead I got the impressions they were trying to see if the dual class system of Guild Wars 1 would work with Guild Wars 2 systems, realized it was impossible and went with the next best thing which was blending abilities in to new and surprising combinations. The lack of synergy really makes these new traits sort of float on their own in a way that separates them from the class they're apart of and I think that is something they should look in to. Guild Wars 2 runs like porridge through a coffee filter for me due to bottle neck issues with my pc but I would never want the game AI to be playing for me; I understand your sentiment though - particularly for people with physical limitations. I think pet classes like Necromancer, Ranger and now Mechanist could really do with some tweaking not to the power of the pets or the AI but to the controls so people who rely on their pets due to real life limitations don't have to feel like they aren't using any of their own skills.
Just wanted to say this synergy was there in Specter. From what I heard mainly from SA but there’s some in other trait lines as well.
I liked the idea of doing a tier list for every expansion.
I wholeheartetly agree with the mechanists asscesment. There are other builds that make it really easy to get going but all of these build require researching outside the game and they might not be intuitive. With the Mech anyone can just unlocked it and has a good kit to start of with. And the modular design of the golem is like a miniature version of a whole build that can make people curious into buildcraft. I love it !
In 3 months they'll all be awesome, 3 months it's more than enough to redesign them.
You ARE Guild Wars 2. Thank you for all your work.
I love playing Ranger so I was excited for the Untamed, I think it has some really interesting moves and had loads of fun teleporting around with the pet, and the hammer was a lot more enjoyable than I thought it would be 👀 (I use bow 90% so I'm not used to short range) but I do agree it doesn't feel like it really utalised the pet like they said and it needs more tweaking done too it- least this is only the beta with it so far
I actually had some fun with the hammer, it was more fun than I expected. But yeah, the pet and the “unleashed” swap was pretty badly designed. All the unleashes skills to extra damage to cc’d foes, and all the “leashed” skills do cc, but it’s literally not possible to actually utilize them together.
Also, I found the whole “unleashed effect” to be really fugly.
I had some fun with the hammer but it does nothing to improve game play for rangers, in many ways it is worse than core. At the moment it is a C IMO.
Hammer Engineer is much better.
In 4 years playing i never had a lv 80 mesmer and i loved the Virtuoso gameplay.
I'm a thief main and I was kinda excited because I love all the previous specs but this new one lacks impact. On paper it should be doing the most Condi Damage of either specs but it felt like I did no damage and I didn't understand the point of shadow shroud as it seemed like my damage dropped even more when switching to it
Agreed, as another Thief main. When I first picked it up, I made sure to hamper my expectations from moving to a support, but boy it really did underwhelm in anything not involving the act of "healing". It might be fine if it does it's job well, but we have Mr. Firebrand over here that provides excellent support, sustain, and damage. The question that will stick for Specter is "why would I choose this over FB or Scourge?"
I really enjoyed it! I’d like to see you do it for HoT and PoF elite specs.
As for my tier list:
F tier:
Catalyst - honestly I think that’s really lenient, this is the worst spec in the game and I’d like Anet to scrap it completely. Hammer is the only somewhat ok thing about it but everything else is Z-tier.
E tier:
None
D tier:
None
C tier:
Untamed - I think it just doesn’t feel very fun atm
Harbinger - The idea is good but it just needs a lot of tuning. Elixirs are super lazy.
B tier:
Virtuoso - the concept is really cool I think but it needs a fair bit of tuning and there’s that weird mix of different themes
Willbender - again, the idea is good but it just doesn’t feel that good to play atm
Vindicator - I love the idea but the new mechanic feels rather clunky to use and I don’t know if Anet will be able to make it feel any better
A tier:
Specter - it’s not perfect by any stretch but the idea is quite original and the spec feels like a breath of fresh air.
Mechanist - really solid spec even though I don’t think I’ll play it because I don’t like to rely on the golem so much
S tier:
Bladesworn - I don’t even play warrior but that spec felt great to me, the idea is amazing and really original
For me it is like Anet fired all the talented people when they got rid of workers there. These elite specs, what they bring compared to the older ones, and the rehash of skills feels amateur level.
Only one I kinda liked is the Mechanist, the rest feels like a shuffle of other profession skills..😪
I feel you. What they did with the Catalyst is horrendous. I'm glad I main an Engineer.
Even leaving out efficacy, I can't put Vindicator any higher than C with current design. Greatsword feels good, but everything else about the spec is super clunky and frustrating to use.
As someone who exclusively seeks out low intensity builds and eases into higher intensity until I find my middle ground, Mechanist is my favorite spec coming to EoD and I'm glad I can have a cool looking robot companion as well.
S - Harbinger, Mechanist
A - Specter, Willbender
B - Bladesworn, Vindicator
C - Catalyst, Untamed
D - Virtuoso
Guild Wars 2 Professions are sandboxes and the elite specializations just add more toys to the sandbox. You can create new gameplay experiences just by having a good enough imagination. The Untamed (Ranger Elite Specialization) gave players control over their pets actions, (F1, F2, F3), so I tried different pets out and found that the Moa has a healing skill. Combined with a Beast Mastery trait that allows Pet's beast skill to heal, and Rangers own healing skill, I could heal my Untamed Ranger for about 16k (8k direct healing from Moa + 8K Heal over time from Heal skill "Troll Unguent"), without healing power gear. The full control over the pet creates more build opportunities depending on the pet you choose, no hammer or unleashed skills required. This goes for the other elite specs, at first glance they may seem unimpressive but when combined with other specializations, gear or weapons they can begin to shine. Another example would be creating a Specter (Thief Elite Specialization) Condi build using Scepter, Venoms, and condi damage gear.
Interesting, when I played the beta I actually had alot of fun with the Virtuoso and a really bad time with the Bladesworn. I really couldnt get into the rhythm with the bladesworn but the virtuoso just worked out of the box for me. And as a longtime engi main Im sad to say that a pet class is basically the one thing I was hoping it wouldnt be :P. I was somehow hoping for like a mech suit or or exoskeleton or something like that^^
I always enjoy the videos but it's funny how opposite our tastes are in the classes....Virtuoso absolutely nailed it for me, it's been YEARS since I stopped for the night, went to bed, then was ready to go play the next morning thinking of it and just unlocking the spec and playing it did that for me. The mechanics are fun, the overall style is different, and the flow of everything is so different it really is its' own thing.
The untamed just felt like a normal ranger too me and the power up was to restricted to hammer.
The fantasy Virtuoso is filling: No clones, sharp magic knives.
It wasn't well implemented in the beta since so many core mesmer traits just didn't work. Presumably that will be fixed before the final beta, along with the other weird clunky bits in the first betas
lol, nice video. you can really tell WP didn't make these rankings ahead of time. "I think it's an A...No it's a B...but I don't know it might be a C...no no no it's an A..err...no it's a B...but..."
I love it :)
I like the idea of future tier lists. The reason I enjoy it so much is I love your thoughts on the 360 view of each spec. I don’t really see utilizing the list for anything but more of a vessel to help guide your discussion when comparing the specs to its piers. Great video!
But it is very cool to read "Level 80 -- Norn Untamed" in the character select screen.
Got to have to disagree with spectre damage tuning aside condi spectre feels really fun
In fact I like it so much i have already made up my mind on my mains that being spectre and bladesworn
the hell? condi is THE dmg on specter. thooorment hits hard (of course not as hard as scourge) with poison and bleed. if you compare it to scourge tho imma need to remind you that that spec is broken AF
@@MikePhantom that's kind of an issue with the entire game to be honest in order for these specs to even see play both scourge and firebrand need to be nerfed into the ground
@@MikePhantom it just felt weak damage wise but that might as well be an issue if build craft rather then the spec(i suck at build craft) so when actually competent people make a build(such as metabattle or hizen) these issues will likely disappear
I'm kinda tired of all the tier lists that mostly mean absolutely nothing but I enjoy hearing your thoughts on all the elite specs so I don't mind this. ^^
I enjoyed the Tier Lists. I pretty much agreed on everything, but i feel like i have to defend my poor Virtuoso.
I ended up trying Viper's Virtuoso and that felt the most fun to me (though the block build was fun too). The self stacking blades - to me felt closer to what i considered the fantasy: A psionic bladesinger. The fantasy does seem a little too spread out but i like the idea of a bard/ bladesinger that conjures up psychic blades as part of their songs. I just wish there was more of an idea of the song/ bard aspect. The F4 felt a little closer to that and so did the utility: Blade Renewal - where they were channels that did stuff over time.
Also Catalyst would have been D for me. Love the idea - hate how it was executed.
It really tells you something when the majority of specs are either below of slightly above average. Anet has a lot of work to do before EoD release.
They have 4 months. 🤣😂🤣
@@Thorrnn they can fix a lot in 4 months. Contrast that with Shadowlands which Blizz delayed only 2 weeks and fixed nothing in that time, this is 8x longer
Yes PLEASE DO A TIER LIST for ALL specs available! :)
love the idea of the video, I wish you will do more of these. Also maybe making a ranking compared to gw1 professions
Do a tierlist!! :D For all of them!
Tbh I do like that you emphasize the importance of accessibility wrt the mechanist. I have some disappointments with the spec as it looks rn in terms of limited utility because of all you lose with the tool belt slots but I do agree that having a really strong pet and a low intensity overall spec is good and important. One of the things I like most about the GW2 community is that it does take the time to promote things like LI builds and having like a cool flashy new spec that's really made that way from the ground up, without having to go look up a whole particular build on metabattle or something. Ty for continually mentioning the importance of accessibility!
I would like to know WoodenPotatos opinion if this chance would be good or bad and how it would effect on Untamed?
Chance Core Ranger to have F1 Attack, F2 to F4 pet's abilities and F5 Pet Swap.
Elite Specializations would now replace the Pet Swap with new F5 ability. Or in other words They lose ability to swap pets but they do gain something else in return.
Druid would gain staff and Celestial Avatar that allows Druid to heal. Losing a pet would be minor as the pet has no effect on healing as I understand it. The whole Druid is mostly been around Spirits, Staff and Celestial Avatar generating 25 might.
Soulbeast would gain Beastmode that allows you to merge with pet. Even if pet dies you can still merge with the pet, so the "pets death" is not that huge of setback. You could chance that when you stop Beastmode you would review dead pet instantly adding the "second life" to the soulbeast.
Unleashed would be the only thing suffering from this (everyone would lose pet command keybind F3 "return")
We could easily offset by stating that Pet deals 15% more dmg when unleased but would take 15% less dmg when you are unleased. This would give the pet more survivability while losing the "second life" via pet swap. Now you could also power greep the weapons by (thanks to @KROOF's idea) giving all weapons 5 ability that becomes Unleased which chances how it works.
Do you think this kind of chance would be good or bad for Ranger? This would make the Core Ranger feel more unique and make the Elite Specialization feel even more special as you replace the pet swap with something new. Or do you think this would be stupid? I would love to everyone's opinion on this idea :D
Maybe we can generate enough buzz to get GW2 devs take part on this topic ... No, I'm not going to make Reddit post :^) just steal this idea and run with it.
Hmm
I feel like elixers for necro could be really cool with them on your belt with colors for each skill and then when you use one it goes away or something. I wish they did more augmenting on top of the boons, like some of the reaper shouts so it really feels like solo usable but also shareable.
Great idea WP on the doing tier lists! I'd love to see how the elite specs stack up from the expansions! Now about the tier list for EOD...I know it's preference but I cannot agree with the rating for Virtuoso. Although I think some tweaks need to happen for the traits and cool downs, I had fun with the spec. Yes, the clones are gone and are a huge part of the mesmer class. However, it would be cool to amp up the skills with different weapons, not just dagger "clones". As for Catalyst, I hate to admit it since I main Ele, you are totally on point with the ranking. This spec was disappointing for me, primarily because of the jade sphere mechanic. Takes way too long to charge and lasts way too short. I can't get any benefit from the elemental fields since they don't last long and are completely stationary. I think the creature animations are great, but why can't they move with me? For me, Catalyst needs to most rework. (Longbow ele would've made more sense...). As for my top pick, it has to go to Mechanist. It was soooo much fun to play. The mace was meh, but the star here is the mech itself and the playstyle.
As for Virtuoso: How the hell do you sell losing all your clones as something desirable? "Hey, you started playing Mesmer for the core class mechanic of having clones and all its utility. How about we remove that and give you some generic damage skills?"
It's as if Virtuoso was the base class and getting clones was the elite spec. That would've been a much more exciting scenario.
@Thomas Mortensen Right there with you... I thought the Virtuoso looked cool at first, but losing the clones feels really bad.
Yes! Thank you!!! Clones forever!
I had a write up for a cloneless mesmer elite spec called the Psychomancer, on the forums a few years back.
Instead of shatters you hex people which marks them, sort of like Deadeye's Mark, and then every time you would have summoned a clone it instead makes the hex stronger and stronger for various extremely debilitating effects. And then you aren't just thinking about skills that generate clones and how you need 3 for your shatter, you're looking at weapons and utilities and ways to make the most clones possible you could because there's theoretically no end to the benefit of them. Also it'd feel different since you'd open with the hex F skill and then start casting the skills that used to summon clones after that.
It's "sold" the exact same way soulbeast was. "People that picked ranger but hate the pet can now get rid of the pet." People that want to be a mesmer but don't want clones now have a spec for them.
@@Ashendal Except what made soulbeast cool was that you could apply the beast stats and trait and skill bonuses to yourself and you can use your pet skills yourself.
Virtuoso is just "you don't have clones all your shatters are worse" with nothing gained from it. The only thing carrying it in PvE was how hilariously overtuned the elite skill was in PvE.
1) aww no boots?
2) I pretty much agree
3) I think Virtuoso can be saved, but I don't believe Catalyst can without major redesign
f2 on Vindicator is a joke and it's better on core legends. The flipover is a mess and Alliance skills are awful. The spec lacks CC and damage. And as a supporter is worse than Herald and Renegade.
All tuning considerations IMO which isn't what this list is about.
After the expansion comes out, people will be on the forums screaming for a nerf.
@@WoodenPotatoes Well you did bring in tuning in your video as well so it's kinda the pot calling the kettle black if you will. As for the vindicator, I just hate the fact that there are two spirits in this e-spec instead of one and they have opposite skills pretty much and you have to alternate between them. If you were able to pick one of them instead of being forced to use both I would be a lot happier. I mean, you have to alternate between support and dps, you have to as the utilities are fixed. You don't get to choose and that's why I don't like this e-spec and will likely not play it. As a sidenote, I just think that with the Mechanic having a jade-based golem and both a Luxon and Kurzick spirit in this e-spec, the Kurzick faction (which is the most popular faction in GW1) got the short end of the stick as far as representation goes.
Spectre should have been at least A. While you might have had mediocre experiences with it, it is a spec that completely overhauls thf and support in this game and the theme fits exactly what it does and how it looks. It's a spec that has a high learning curve, but that should not count against it.
About Specter. At the moment it's a super carry that can rezz people on range in an instant with very low cooldown and provides perma alac + quickness for 5 people. Only thing it's lacking as a support is prot.
In a world where pistol/pistol Deadeye exists, Mechanist is fine.
Dropping an absolutely massive deuce right now
Even if the commentors say it's a lazy video, if you had fun making it, it definitely shows through in the video and thus makes great content.
Spot on about that virtuoso reimagining!
My mum already plays GW2, but she is for sure a skill clicker (and having tons of fun!) and I get your point about the Mechanist. I think it is a good idea, too.
Bravo on the Noob Tube mechanist support.
I really appreciate your content WP.
Catalyst on C and Virtuoso on D! Yeah, no! I don't think so. Swap them and you're on to something.
Other than that, this tier list was spot on! Good job.
Virtuoso is basically core mesmer though but with daggers instead of clones, very uninspired and boring. Needs a total redesign
At least catalyst had a cool idea, it just needs dramatic implementation fixes.
Hmmm.... I hate to say it, but having them all listed out has made me realise I actually don't like any of them. I've always been a ranged spell caster and none of them hit the mark for me. The Spectre comes the closest, but as you say, it's fully support which is quite lame for a solo option. I appreciate my tastes aren't for everyone but it feels like Arenanet have decided melee/physicality is the only play style they wish to pursue and neglected all else, which personally I find very disappointing.
The elites are always my favourite part of the expansion. To have that refreshing feeling of new gameplay style and a new fantasy, and these have really put me off EoD as a whole
The Bladesworn has some neat stuff but it feels like it's trying to fill too many niches all at once. It simultaneously offers the big damage Dragon Slash but also it looks to be easily best in slot for healing support just because of the elite (which isn't exactly the most interesting way of achieving that goal either). Lack of standard burst on normal weapons also feels quite bad for a lot of weapons.
Pistol and Dragon Slash are really neat but I think trying to run shouts on this would feel really awkward even if it ends up being effective. You have a weaker version of your standard weapon and the very centralizing new weapon and they don't seem to fit well with shout builds. Making good use of Soldier's Comfort feels awkward on Bladesworn so support heal REALLY is going to be about spamming shouts and nothing else.
I also somewhat have to question the health of open world with Bladesworns running around instantly killing targets with Dragon Slash and what that could potentially do for tagging purposes. Maybe not so much due to the startup but it's something I wonder about. Can 5 Bladesworns instantly kill an unscaled Champion I wonder? There's at least some potential for griefing play here I think kind of like when mount engages needed to be nerfed in lower level areas.
I've been a ranger main since the headstart in 2012 and i cant express how disappointed i am with how the new ranger feels, almost like theres no reason to switch pets or make the pet untamed ever.
mechanist on the other hand feels INSANELY fun, almost as fun as Holo
Tbh Specter tingles me the most, some madman pulled a healing thief off and i think its amasingly done, really looking forward to play this:)
If you put guardian and rev in A tier and can justify guardian even though it was so underwhelming then Spectre deserves the same treatment. It’s condi support is underwhelming now but it can be tuned for better numerical support. If you went too far with it, you’d be up with people focusing more on trying to top dps than to support which is the function of the spec. It’s the first spec that has true customization of its support capabilities. Most other specs (all expacs included) have on and off switches for their roles, you do dmg, you support, you do condi. It’s much much much more interesting when it’s a sliding bar that you can tweak into where you most prefer than to be forced into doing one thing or another. If they tweak the support you would be able to opt into more condi focus while having some QoL support for the group. If you focus on support, you do have some condi to make up for losing a slot for a damage dealer.
The new guardian is an over loaded spec like firebrand was, it’s just this time we see it under tuned but kit wise it’s on par to be another firebrand but less scope of roles.
I should add, if you spec + trait correctly 2-4 shroud combo from stealth is almost a 1-shot
I'm not impressed by the specs efficacy wise, but the lore and aesthetic wise, omg, they are wonderful!!!
My personal list:
1) guardian
2) engineer
3) warrior
4) the rest 😁
1) guardian
2) engineer
3) warrior
4) the rest
5) Catalyst
My main gripes: (key elements in bold for skimming)
Willbender - *the Virtues lost their passives meaning I can't reliably do a condi build anymore unless I'm in melee.* Also, the Virtues are mouse directed instead of target directed - which means for players like me who rarely use their mouse courser we can easily get dashed in the wrong direction and completely F up the fight - and the snap to target setting does not work on these skills.
Bladesworn - *the loss of unique burst abilities really bothers me because now a significant reason to play multiple weapons is completely gone.* One of the biggest benefits to playing Warrior Longbow was its giant fire field burst, but with Bladesworn that's just gone and replaced with a melee skill that is the same for all weapons. *Also, the decision to make Pistol an offhand weapon absolutely annoys me because it means Warrior STILL does not have access to a single mid-range weapon, either main-hand or two-handed.*
Vindicator - I did find the flip over skills to feel really awkward and uninteresting but my main issue is that core Revenant has only the Hammer for a ranged weapon, and that weapon has issues. *The last thing the Revenant needed was another melee weapon.* Some people have commented to this by asking if having two ranged elites in a row makes sense - and I answer every time that it does if it's what the class needs access to. *The Engineer got THREE melee elite weapons in a row because it didn't have access to any melee in core, so there's no reason to not expect a class lacking in ranged options to not get multiple ranged options in a row to fill build diversity needs.*
Untamed - While I appreciate and like the idea to rampage with the pet and I also really like gaining control of the pets' skills, I agree that the implementation is wonked. *The Pets' Unleashed skills are the same for all pets which really removes a big part of pet identity imo.* It makes no sense to me to have a Wolf given a poison skill, etc. I'm not suggesting that each pet be unique, instead *I'm advocating that each pet FAMILY be unique like what was done in Soulbeast.* They don't have to make the skills entirely different in that regard either, *just modify parts of the skills to reflect what pet family is doing the action.* F1 Unleashed can still be a teleport for example, but if the poison doesn't make sense for Canines or Cats then let that side effect be different. I also believe that if all Ranger weapons can't receive the Unleashed skill swap mechanic, then *there should be some additional benefit to being unleashed yourself (I felt the current damage bonus to be less than effective).*
I'll stop here as these are my most cemented opinions and this wall of text is already super long.
Tier lists for Legendaries would also be awesome
This xpac feels bad as a caster main. None of the specializations gave me the play style fantasy I wanted.
A PoH and HoT tier list would be pretty cool
Really liked your speech on the Mechanist and the value of low intensity playstyles. ^-^
I like the idea virtuoso, never played the beta so maybe its crap but I hate clones and summons. Making it into a purple dagger wizard sounds much more up my alley.
Specter is actually pretty insane DPS. I got up to ~37k with it (as a player used to action camera, playing terribly without), without Allies to Share Spider, Skale and Rot Wallow Venoms to (with allies I can see this breaking 45k DPS). This thing is easily more overtuned than Harbinger, all while having a 150% HP Shroud with barely any degeneration and more robust skills, Traits and core integration, more mobility, stealth, support, etc.
(DA: 3;2;1. Trickery: x;3;2. Specter: 3;1;1. Viper, Tormenting, Bursting, Torment; Well of Sorrow, Spider, Skale, Thieves Guild. Spam Sc/D 3, Shroud 2,4,5,2 when out of initiative, Well, Venoms, Thieves guild on CD)
Similarly for OW play, with Tormenting Runes and the Shadow Force generation from Larcenous Torment fueling Consume Shadows this thing is great for solo play.
As a support in Fractal CM's, I solo healed and managed perma Quickness (excluding self), Alac, Fury, decent prot uptime etc., and as long as people stack it's pretty much perma full health, max barrier on everybody (Consume Shadows + Shadow Savior and Traversing Dusk, Sc/P 3 Spam) - in addition to being able to Shadow Step/Portal skip.
The only thing that's really, really awkward on support Specter is having to guess breakbars and HP/Phase thresholds when targeting and focusing on allies.
Even if Specter didn't have that single target tether gimmick at all, it's imo the S Tier of S Tiers. At least once they fix the glaring random teleport and targeting bugs, primarily with Action Cam.
If you are looking for the Dark Caster with DPS, Support and solo play options, you will definitely find it on Specter.
Tier lists for HoT and PoF and combined tier list of all specs NEEDS to happen
This was most excellent and gave me a good overview of how the new specs played out. I would love it if you did additional tier lists for the other expansions’ elite specs. Actually a tier list of core professions would be great too!
Wow, it's the very first YT tier list, that I actually 100% agree with. I would arrange them exactly the same.
Gonna have to disgaree spectre a strong s for me but thats cause i just got into playing support in wvw and pvp and this was exactly what i wanted
If you're reading this hi wp love your channel! Sorry for yelling at you in twitch chat for talking through the spec stream
tier lists arent that original or anything, but i still enjoy watching them. id love to see your opinions on the other expansions too!
I'd like to echo the sentiment of wanting to see more tier lists, it's just such an enjoyable format for me.
Another thing I'd love to see are community polls to compare and contrast where your viewers rank these specs!
Would love a BIG tierlist with all elite specs in the game PLUS the core specs! That would be an awesome video. Not just power but gameplay/fantasy feel etc.
Specter is currently not fully functional, especially with scepter 3. Especially for Action Camera users, it's completely broken.
I wonder if these particular specs are the first cracks in the "elite specialization" model. It makes me wonder about crunch and planning for the devs. They all but said they dropped everything to work on this expack and I... I don't know what to feel here.
Personally, I'd put Mechanist in the B tier, but only due the fact that I'm kinda used to be alone -- the engineer IS the machine so far. Even with the latest change in Scrapper, in which they turned the gyros into wells that run with you, the engineer feels even more like the lone runner; holosmith is the one that keeps hitting things and gets hot and their own heat burns enemies. And support feels mostly accidental than direct (trait that healing you heals people around you, toolkit that push vapors to heal people around you and so on).
Again, not saying that mechnist is bad, it just feels weird when we changed the behaviour we are used since almost forever.
This is pretty close to my own ranking, although being a guardian main I placed the willbender spec lower since DH and FB are soo amazing and distinct
That's mostly because firebrand is SS+ ;p -> super fun, different and strong
I'm sure a part of why the new specs are what they are is because of FB, scourge and maybe the old 2 dogde mirage in pvp. They are a blast to play and unique but very hard to balance because of that
I wouldn’t say tier lists are lazy, they’re easy content yes but with good discussion and interesting opinions they’re fun easy to just listen to content. I would love to see you do tierlist for the other elite specs and maybe a core class one too.
I was hype for Necro with a gun, but then it all went away.
Spectre also looks fun.
Specter feels like Mercy from Overwatch, without the flying, but he has enough mobility.
Love to see other tier lists see where my chronomancer and druid rank now