Been away for a week since I've been re-arranging my room and re-painted the walls completely. Thanks for your patience, and as always thank you for the support! (The echo has to do with my empty walls... got to hang everything back up). -Love, Vivi :)
According to Thieves in Time, Tennessee was the one that started the rule of stealing exclusively from other criminals. But if you look at Sly 1 (you know, the original trilogy that is the be all, end all of Sly lore because Sanzaru made a lot of continuity errors in Sly 4), Sly says that Slytunkhamen used his invisibility technique to steal from corrupt pharaohs and greedy noblemen. Basically implying that exclusively stealing from other criminals and corrupt figures has been a staple of the Cooper Clan since the beginning. "The old itch" quote in Sly 4 never sat well with me from the first time I heard it. Sly gave up everything he knew to start a life with Carmelita. Saying he "needed to pull a heist" the way he did plus "the old itch" makes it seem like Sly is addicted to stealing. But according to the ending of Sly 3, he isn't. He quit cold turkey to be with Carmelita. I like Kevin Miller's interpretation of it, but it seems the vast majority of the audience interpreted it in a negative light which means it could have been delivered better. 5:00 Yes, the Japanese dagger was being displayed in a museum that Le Paradox owned. We all know he dealt in rare antiquities on the black market for years before he went after the Cooper Clan. There are multiple instances of the gang stealing for the fun of it. Plenty of examples in the first game alone in most of the episode ending cutscenes. Gold stars from Hollywood, the bag of crown jewels from England, their "shopping" in China, and the casual mention of the Firestone of India in the prologue. The video from the second game of them stealing a priceless stamp. And let's not forget "Goodbye, My Sweet" in Sly 3 where they steal a heavily guarded and expensive chocolate bar and then proceed to eat it as if they had just returned from a run to the candy store. (I should mention that I paused the video at 6:22 to write this paragraph.) So no, Sly doesn't exclusively steal from other criminals. But he also doesn't steal from ordinary people. He steals priceless artifacts for kicks and giggles from places that can afford it, and in some cases, turns around and returns what he stole. In this sense, I believe Sly upholds his moral code. 8:59 Umm... Literally a minute after he steals the watch from Muggshot, he slips it to Carmelita. And knowing her, we can assume she returned it to its rightful owner. We can gauge from Bentley's and Murray's reactions that their intent was to keep the watch for themselves, but I mentioned before that Sly has a track record of returning artifacts that he's stolen. 9:50 I like the idea of someone challenging Sly's moral code, which brings to mind a moral code of his that the fans have collectively agreed upon: he doesn't like killing. How this got started, I don't know, but it suits him. As for the antagonist doing the moral code challenging, following Sly and his actions all the way from the orphanage to the present is a bit of a stretch. It would be more believable if the antagonist started their personal investigation of Sly and his gang during the height of their infamy.
About Carmelita and the gold watch, that was a spur of the moment thing, Sly's goal in that short was to go through a heist, he even said not everything went as planned, but good catch!
The Sly Cooper trilogy is an absolute nostalgic masterpiece. Along with Jak and Ratchet & Clank. Each game had remarkable stories with surprising plot twist and lovable characters that got developed. I truly wish that there would be a day where this trilogy would get the proper remake it truly deserves.
Sly said they specialized in stealing from criminals, he never said they only stole from criminals. And he never said they had a strict moral code or rules against stealing from non-criminals, just that there was no honour, challenge, or fun stealing from ordinary people. That implies that the bulk of their targets were criminals, not that it was criminals exclusively, and they were unlikely to target ordinary people, such as those of the middle class or lower. By the way, the queen of England and other filthy rich people with fortresses, mountains of wealth, and private armies, do not qualify as 'ordinary people.'
@@VtnVivi or... Instead of a antagonist... A person who only questions Sly's Morality because he cares about legitimacy in everything rather than harming Sly. That his intentions aren't to harm Sly but to encourage Sly to think about what he's doing. Minus the evil parts, yes this person knows about Sly, but has a ability to question the morality of many others. Easily notices it by traveling. Not with the intent to "expose" someone, but to encourage someone through their will to do for the better. Though the one questioning Sly's morality is not the biggest moral guy out there, he is able to point out anyone's morality, even his own, erasing the need for calling him a hypocrite. As he himself will admit that he might still be doing immoral things as it is to balance he himself rather than harm the populace. For in orderyou to get to heaven, you must climb and survive through the horrifying nightmare that is hell itself. Every immoral thing he himself will do, he will do it reluctantly but press on because he got himself into this situation, and he must find a way into heaven by getting out of it.
I suspect the line about stealing only from master criminals was put into the game to prevent glorifying thievery. The Sly Cooper series is aimed at kids, after all. Despite that, Sly is not as honorable as he claims to be. He might not even realize how bad he is. He's still a lot better and more moral than the villains he fights, though. If a Sly 5 happens, perhaps there will be a character like you mentioned, Vivi. Someone that challenges Sly's beliefs and mindset. Perhaps he will become the man he claims to be: a thief that only steals from the corrupt. Until then, he is more of a "do as I say and not what I do" type of guy. At least, that's how I observe it.
I highly doubt it, if Carmelite was to quit her career, that she loves, to be with Sly. I see Sly and Carmelite's relationship, basically being like one of those stories. Their relationship will grow on, but they'll keep it a secret from interpol, since their after Sly at times. Plus most likely, the Cooper Line will continue through Sly and Carmelite, because I don't really see it ending, with Sly being the last Cooper. But of course, their children will also be a secret, depending on who's directing the next story.
@@VongolaXZax I am not sure the story will go even that far. I am sure the last thing we will see of Cooper is how he hangs up being a thief for good to be with his foxie. You are right that Sly won't be the last Cooper but he might be the last thief. Like Vivi said, someone might confront Sly's morals and he might realize that the only way to be "moral" is not to be "criminal" at all. But that's just me:)
@@AndasMus Basically, have Sly end, like how Uncharted 4: A Thief's Ended with Drake. But I get what your saying, the series would most likely end with Sly finally settling down with Carmelite, and starting a family, being the last thief. But that's if Sly chooses not to tell his children of their family lineage. Just talking about it, makes me think of the endless ways, Sly 5 could end or continue the series, but it all depends on the game Devs, that Sony allows to make another Sly game, if they think Sly 5 should end the series or it could lead to new stories. Me personally, I rather Sly continue to be Sly, while also being with Carmelite, eventually having a family, that continues the Cooper Line of Thieves, and have Sly 5 end that way, or continue series. Stories like that, always worked, but again, it could go either way, I wouldn't be surprised if the story did end, with Sly permanently retiring and agreeing with Carmelite not to tell their children about his family history, but in the end, Sly's son finds his cane, smiling just like Sly. =') Showing us that there are still stories, for the Thievius Raccoonus to tell.
@@VongolaXZax That 's actually a great idea. Sly's son finding the cane and becoming a thief while his father retires. Damn, Carmelita's gonna be heartbroken though😥
While Sly does have the "need" to steal, it's still not full on kleptomania, as Sly does not check on all the criteria to be one. He could only check on one of the criteria, which is stealing items on impulse without monetary value or necessity.
I've honestly been thinking about this a lot lately which is weird that you posted this around the same time. lol I love the idea that Sly and his family only steal from other thieves/criminals, but you're absolutely right that there's been too many instances where that's not the case. I honestly just mark it up to writers not really thinking about the "moral code" when writing up cutscenes/comedic bits like the Queen's Jewels and the Chocolate Bar. lol It was all in good fun, but contradicts the family code, so its certainly confusing. Its funny how I never thought about it growing up and playing the games.
One of the most morally questionable parts in the franchise is in the 3rd episode of Sly 3. Sly and the gang slaughter regular guards/pilots who are just doing their job by using a Wolf to maul them.
they might do sly 5 but look sly 4 how many years it took to made it 7-8 years and why they did that secret sly ending where sly wakes up in egypt i think it means if the series continue it means first map gonna be ancient egypt we already saw sly 1 map 3 the paper said something about pharaoh cooper who stole things
@@VtnVivi ooh nice! You’ll have to show us a video of your new room sometime if you can okay? How’s kingdom hearts melody of memory going by the way too?
@@renamon5658 That brings up a discussion, whether or not any member of the cooper clan were evil/bad. Because a person's own code, of what's right or wrong in their own eyes, without following that path that is good, will always end up leaving them doing more evil than good. Because we don't really know, whether all Coopers were good, or there was some members that aren't really brought up, except in the Thievius Raccoonus. But, going back to what you said about, the moral code "could" being changed, from family generation to generation, what if there was, a member of the cooper clan that actually stole from innocents, which one of the things that Coopers never do. Which also brings up another discussion, was there ever a Cooper, that was expelled from the clan? 🤔
I've been waiting for this! This is something I thought about too, concerning Sly's Code Of Honor/Moral Code. The one thing we know, is the Cooper clan are not villains, they're good/vigilantes, they steal from other thieves, who are also bad guys, to prove themselves, because remember what Sly said in the first game, "after all, there's no honor, no challenge, no fun in stealing from regular people" or in this case, innocent people. _"You rip off a master criminal and you know you're a master thief"._ _Sly_ I believe this was a long time goal of every Cooper in the clan, but who started this goal? 🤔 If this is Sly's opinion, then he's only speaking for himself, but if Conner taught him this, then someone in the Cooper lineage, started this tradition. Certainly not Bob, he only dealt in eggs for eating and stealing other things, can't speak for Slytunkhamen, but maybe the II or III son?
While he has his 'code' to only steal from criminals. I can belive Sly take the 'no honor stealing from from ordinary people' more too heart, as in: personal proparties are of the topic (unless its from a criminal that is). And thats why he has no problem stealing from museums and public places. Its not own by one person so its not stealing from ordinary people.
Here's something I've wondered: does Sly choose to be a thief because he wanted to become one or it was just expected of him to be one? I find it hard to believe every member of the Cooper family were thieves since there are some very large time gaps between some of his ancestors. Another way of putting it: Carmelita said she was the fourth member in her family to be in law enforcement, say she had more family members who were in law enforcement, does she carry on the "family tradition" because she wanted to or it was expected of her to do so?
I would love to have more Sly Cooper comics/manga/graphic novels. We could definitely use having more thieving/heist comic book lines and Sly would be a good addition to it
Finally I've been thinking about the itch sly had for awhile now and how on their "vacations" or "rests"from 1 to 3 and how Bentley and Murray clearly was shown to do other things while sly always stole things. Great vid by the way!
I always questioned in the folder that sly has of his ancestors there are pictures of them how the hell were they able to have pictures of themselves without any cameras.
Well, we have to remember that, in every century throughout history, pictures have been made differently. Option 2; Sly in 5, travels through time, taking pictures. Lol
@@VtnVivi I watched most of your sly cooper videos bc I am a big sly fan. You should make a theory video on how the ancestors pictures are in the folder
I think that what Sly said in the first game refers to the fact that his family whenever they made a hit had to be something big, that's why he said that there was no honor in robbing normal people, for example, interpol was not corrupt or anything but stealing from a cop was something very honorable for a thief and the same case occurs with the chocolate bar since it is shown that sly partly wanted to steal the bar cuz it was in the custody of Carmelita
also generally there are many errors like these throughout the series such as sly's gloves in cinematics, maybe many of these errors were not changed for some release date or they simply ignored these errors since they were in a very advanced stage of development
I love the idea of future games or media exploring Sly's morality! We get glimpses of it here and there in the games; where they challenge Sly's character. (In sly 3, the antagonist calls Sly a "self centered egomaniac"). It would be amazing to see it fully fleshed out, as you presented here.
Yeah, this is definitely something to think about... For the Sly 4 watch thing, don't forget that Sly gave it back to Carmelita at the end of the short. 6:54 That joke was amazing I would like to think that Sly had some good intentions when stealing these certain items thinking it was from a criminal. For whatever those intentions are, I can't really determine.
its good to see u back. I think there have been some dark moments in the sly saga(feeding the crocodile, druging an elefant etc) for sly to say he has been following a code. if its only for the phrase he said in the first game... he didnt really, the first game was revenge, the second its basically ending clockwerk and the third its the vault, all personal reasons, there was no I steal this bank because it was stealing for the poor. pd: sly 4 didnt exist:(.
Exact words can save Sly here... he said that the code is that they *specialize* in going after crooks, not *exclusively* go after other crooks. Thus making it a bit more flexible, as long as other crooks are what he primarily goes after, he is upholding it... but if there is a quick job for tossed in for some other reason (like getting something to help him fix the timeline, for instance... or just to have a bit of fun and "flirt" with Carmelita), that's fine too.
I feel like his moral code always had to do with how much it affects people, if only a little then he doesn't hesitate to have a candy, or fruit, or mess with someone like Dimitri (just because of rivalry's) but I would love to see someone come out and call Cooper out on his stuff, kind of like Dr.M did, he had a lot of good points he made and they left his backstory of betrayed vague, we could see if he has a kid who wants revenge or maybe someone tied to him who got wind of what happened and then gathered further info like you said, either way a conflict that forces him to deal with his own hypocrisy would be awesome and a great character development story ~
A thing that i heard in 5:09 onward "Did that object belong to a criminal?" There was a cutscene in sly 4, where it was explained, that Le Paradox was importing old stuff inside the same museum as a "collector", which was later revealed to be a product of time-traveling shenanigans with the other villains (in which i believe was the way the skunk gained the funding for everything/anything necessary) And even if it was from an villain (from feudal japan, which was mentioned in a cutscene too), from an ethnical stand point, nobody could give a damn about a decades old sword by the present day, since the main point is to the cooper gang and later for carmelita, that it's imported by Le Paradox the skunk... Correct me if i missed anything, just a thing i remembered personally after watching this video.
Sly 4 is made by a different team and studio so I wouldn't take much from that game into consideration. As for stealing from the "landowners" and such, they fall into the category of "the wealthy" so they don't exactly count as "ordinary people"
Honestly what you said is really a good upcoming story for a Sly Cooper 5. I think after Bentley, Murray and Carmelita rescue Sly Cooper and take him back home they’d be so happy to have Sly Cooper back but now that you mentioned that someone though possibly a main antagonist, an unseen character or possibly Penelope who escaped from prison would question Sly’s morality I think this is how it will go. When Sly Cooper is sleeping with Carmelita Fox for the night he’s been having nightmares of his inner demons all saying “You are not who you think you are”. I can imagine how spine chilling that line would be and when his nightmare overwhelms him he’d wake up instantaneously and Carmelita would wake up from Sly’s panic. Carmelita will tell him what happened and at that point it’s time for Sly to reveal the truth thus cue the story of Sly Cooper 5. The nightmare sequence I can imagine Clockwerk, Penelope, Neyla and another entity all psychologically taunt Sly, questioning his morality of his honor for stealing from bad guys and criminals and any of the past items he stole were either actually from the bad guys or from the ordinary guys before the bad guys steal it. I hope Sly can pass this test of morality and prove to be himself. As a master thief in pulling of a heist Sly always says that he only steals from other thieves, maybe why not have a secondary source of stealing like stealing the object before the bad guys steal it. I can imagine Sly Cooper is the male counterpart of Carmen Sandiego.
I always imagined young Sly having nightmares at the orphanage, cue cookie heist! But just the idea of nightmares would be pretty effective for the story :)
@@VtnVivi Glad to hear that. Like I said after rescuing Sly he and Carmelita would spend the night and as Sly is sleeping he begins having nightmares and when it overwhelms him he wakes up like he got a flashback. I think Sly might have PTSD because prior to the events of the Sly Cooper series we see him as a young boy with his father and mother and when the Fiendish Five broke into his home Sly witness them murder his mom and dad and steal the Thevius Racoonus I could assume that haunted him for quite sometime of course he has Bentley and Murray plus Carmelita but I keep thinking that Sly’s moment when he witness the Fiendish Five murder his mom and dad would still haunt him and that along with the past thieve of his ancestors it interferes with Sly’s morality. When he reveals the truth about his family to Carmelita maybe she’d give him a hug of comfort after revealing the truth about what happened to his family prior to the events of Sly Cooper. Sly’s backstory is really sad, Sly as a child witnessing the Fiendish Five murdering his mom and dad and stealing the Thievius Racoonus ripping off pages of the book in the process. Man it left me wonder “if they want to wipe out the Coopers why they choose to spare Sly, shouldn’t they kill him to completely wipe out the Cooper Clan?” Then I thought that Clockwerk telling the Fiendish Five to let Sly live was the most stupid thing he’s ever done because he underestimated him.
Missed you man, so glad another Sly Cooper video is out. Me personally I think when it comes to Sly's moral code he does his best but tends too faulter at times. Heck if the game wasn't E and was made with more SERIOUS tones we could've gotten a Sly who tries his best to follow a code but at times wavers too a more destructive path. For an idea/example (using sly 1) when he fights the Panda King he beats him and just continues to throw punches and it takes Bentley shouting in his ear to get him to stop. Dark and doesn't fit i know but I just can't help but picture it. Like if they EVER rebooted it and wanted to go serious than thats the way I'd want it to go, show a Sly who after all the Trama he's been through still finds a way to not become th monster that Clockwork wants him to be. Like that's kind of what Clockwork wants, he wants to desecrate not only the Cooper legacy but the Cooper code by having one who abandons his morals just for revenge.
Oh i haven't think that like you told in the video (i mean like that deep. But I've been thinking about it a little bit.) Interesting video so thank you! :o
I love your videos man! I remember watching ur sly videos since 2014. Still bumped out we haven’t got another game or at least a movie or show, but I’m still hoping. 💙
Great video VTNVIVI!!!...And boy did you disappear for a while, but it doesn't matter, you're here, and all your subscribers prefer a few minutes of you than an eternity without you❤️😋✨!!!...Ah , by the way "I wish you a happy December"✨🌲🌲!! :P
They still not cause the feel like cause its a challenge. What truly makes them great is that they are a family willing to protect each other like in Sly 4 shown when they are caring for each other and treat them like how they are. Sly ain't no hero but he sure is a great character.
@@VtnVivi ❤️❤️ i totally get it :p I’ve been meaning to ask but if it’s okay with you, can we DM on Twitter? I’ve never met another person so into the series and I’d love to talk theories n whatnot!
I just finished the remastered sly cooper trilogy a couple days ago. Man I sure hope they come out with another game or something at least to end sly cooper on a good note. Will always be my favorite games of all time🦝
If Sly 5 gets made, the Penelope story could go with the moral theme. If Clockwerk had a failsafe to upload his consciousness to other pieces of technology, it could be that he reached a few known characters and corrupted them with his hate. It's quite human to have your opinions moulded by our environment and I think it would fit with the series' tone and create a new dilemma / enemy opportunities.
Penelope could be worried about telling the others and have spoken to him in secret, and perhaps she later enabled him to reach others / achieve his sinister goals
@@VtnVivi if I knock them into a bottomless pit, or get them mauled by a giant wolf/bear, or throw them into fire or hit them with electricity... Could go on. Maybe you could say the take downs/silent obliteration is you knocking them out or putting them to sleep, buuut other than that, you're pretty much straight killing them. It's not "murder" but it is killing, even if self defense or otherwise
Honestly, having someone question Sly's morals would be very interesting, almost like what Dr. M did. He questioned why it was called The Cooper gang, why Sly seemed to get all the attention while his friends were in his shadow, underneath him. It could be very interesting to see how Sly would take those news, would he be angry about it? Sad? Confused? There is no way to know for sure, but I do believe that if someone told him that he was breaking his own moral code, he would stop for a moment and think about it and find out if he really are doing things for the right reasons, or if it turns out he has a selfish itch that needs to be scratched
You know what? This could be a really good point for Clockwork. Clockwork has watched the coopers for centuries if not thousands of years - and has faced many of the Coopers in the past and been defeated. Would it not be so hard to assume one reason he hates the Coopers to begin with would be on this same line of Hypocracy? If we possibly go back as far as "Bob" Cooper - he either must have watched via the help of someone whom knew how to create a time machine (Penelope) to send his robotic owls to that point or had to of been there himself (He is a HUGE owl, would fit a period of giant creatures being about but this is a stretch.) And if we go up to Slyttankhamen (probably botched that spelling) where he also could originate; a betrayal to Clockwork here with perchance of a promise or broken friendship (Perhaps a theft that leaves a potential beloved of Clockwork's in the wrong hands of the law and gets them killed: akin to happened with LaParadox''s Father and Sly's Father) would have started it off. To watch the coopers for centuries beating him and increasing their skills - making Hypocritical statements or actions after observing them for so long. And if he potentially was working with Penelope in some way shape or form (As this was another potential theory for why Penelope felt the same as Dr.M after a while) and got a spiffy new - smaller and slim mechanical body...a more fitting thieving body...One that could perform all the techniques he has witnessed through the centuries of watching of his most hated enemies...And no longer bound by the Hate-Chip. Perhaps masterful enough to point every Hypocracy into Sly's face in an epic showdown and using his same family's techniques against him - enhanced in some way as he is very ingenuitive (seriously who does what the hell he did and NOT be a genius the dude practically found a way to be immortal) It just all seems like its the perfect set up to have Clockwork come back "bigger" and bad-er than ever. Stealing the Techniques of the Greatest Thieves -and arguably - most Masterful of Criminals; to make his own name that much greater. The Perfect Thief?
It feels as though this "morale code" was more so of a way for the coopers to make themselves different from other thieves: "we specialized in stealing from other criminals...there's no fun or honor in stealing from ordinary people but if you stole from criminals that would make you a master thief." Sly admits he comes from a family of criminals but how many of them followed this "morale code" since there is no proof of that other than what Sly said. Sly claims to steal from other criminals but what about all those times he stole things that he didn't even need or had anything to do with the morale code. Just because they mainly stole from other criminals doesn't make them any better given how Sly likely stole things he didn't even need and just stole something because he felt like it. Along with we never really know what Sly does with the things he steals and only steals things because he felt like stealing something.
The "itch" is a compulsive desire, the inescapable urge to do something. And in my opinion, the moral code is lopsided and flawed, as The Contessa said in Sly 2 and Carmelita in the comics, because in a way they technically steal from non-criminals by not returning what was stolen from them. In the latter's words: "Don't get me started! Where do you think those thieves get their loot from?! They steal it! So, I don't care where you think you sit on the food chain, you're still breaking the law!"
Personally, i woudn't mind if we get a sort of chapter where Sly face his family legacy and this time has to deal with other Cooper clans. Maybe some didn't like to steal, but others get too much greedy and dangerous. Or continue to work like they always did but much more professional and in the shadows unlike Sly does.
I'm wondering if the cutscene creators were given directions that the writers weren't aware of; it feels like they were told to showcase the fact that stealing is in Sly's blood but weren't told that he was an honourable thief who only stole from other thieves. Either way I think they could tap upon this in a sequel game (Yes, I dare to believe that there will be a sequel game) and have Sly question his own actions, possibly even question if his own ego is preventing him from realising that he's going against his family code. Maybe the unseen victims from the cutscenes could confront him in some way.
As soon as I saw Sly 4, I opted out. As far as I'm concerned, it's non-cannon. And before people come at me in the comments, Sly 4 could take place a few months after Sly 3. It just makes Sly a shitty person, giving up everything and then going back because he felt "the itch". Like he's some junkie. And the problem is this story problem could have been easily fixed given we're dealing with Time Travel. Bentley says, "The TR is disappearing! Sly we need your help." Sly says, "Maybe it's for the best." Carmelita gets his ass into gear.
@@VtnVivi He was investigating Le Paradox's Museum, and he already got intel that Cyrille was dealing in Black Market Antiques. He was pretty much doing better on the case then Carmelita.
I too have been thinking about that phase from kingdom hearts 3 remind. I think in kingdom hearts we are playing as the villains not the heroes. The truth is not what you hear but what you see. How many organizations members that were actually defeated? 7. Here is the list of the “hero team” Sora, Riku, Kairi, Aqua, Ventus, Terra, Roxas, Lea, Xion, king Mickey, Donald, Goofy and emohimer. That 13! And isn’t the saying
This makes to me in a way not the just moral code I think it’s like game or a challenge to wealthy, army like El jefe, museum or master thief’s that’s the risk that’s the fun But stealing from the middle class, poor class, homeless, anything lower than that or killing (yes it looks killed the bodyguard he didn’t) there’s no fun In their honor it’s like how people have there own moral code
Honestly, he kinda was to be honest. The coopers would hoard all the wealth they stole and kept the vault a secret to only within their family. I mean, what point is there to keep a private vault full of all your ill-gotten treasure if its just a boast?
I never thought Sly Cooper story that much when playing. It was interesting that it had story which wasn't simple as most platformers. Even most people just are waiting that sweet new Sly Cooper game. I did like Sly Cooper 4 as much as others but it had own issues but as a game, it works well. Even it ruined especially one thing but I do not judge this game series on story that much. Future Sly game could benefit on this idea as thinking himself that knowing is that moral code really a thing of his heritage.
You should make a video about Sly Cooper: Revenge Of Thieves it’s a Dreams game that someone just developed recently and the sly model looks like sly from Sly 1.
Exactly what I was saying lol. 😂 If people are completely blind, then it's nothing to deceive them with false teaching. Because whatever the teacher, teaches them, they'll believe it to be true. I don't believe in that, you can still get tricked, if "seeing is believing" with you. Even when you do see, you still have to discern, and search out the matter, before jumping the gun. As far as hearing goes, you have to be careful with what you hear, how you hear and what you take in. I.e. digest.
the term ordinary people may exclude people like royalty, cities, countries, and celebrities and no doubt more but it's possible the gang steals things like the statue from dimitri for favors or money for travel or necessities, we see this in sly 2 episode 3 when they steal the large ruby they do this for a buyer to help aid them in a heist it's possible they steal from more ordinary people every now and then to help prepare for larger heists from criminals
The giant cooper vault says it all, they kept all the money from the corrupt and I assumed only used a portion of it for themselves. I mean Dr.M wanted to get into the vault that held zillions from each cooper generation. But I will say it takes the Lupin the 3rd approach given that it was one of it's influences. Which on a side note VTNVIVI, have you watched that anime?
Yeah well, you see the thing is. A person who specializes does not mean it's the only thing they do. An assassin who specializes in taking down crime lords does not mean he can and only will take down crime lords. You could also argue in terms of rules layering. That, queen of England, Interpol etc. Aren't "Ordinary" people. "Right side of the law" is not by definition "ordinary". What Sly and his family consider "ordinary people" is up to the definition. But I'd argue it's more a case of them never pulling heists on people just trying to get by and those who are...regular civilians.
@@VtnVivi Ah shucks I realize I came across pretty condescending in a way I wrote that comment. Love your content especially because Sly series is not that well known or popular amongst content creators so I have huge respect for effort you do to go in-depth with the series. Keep it up!
Hi VIVI om just wondering regarding the video if they didn’t show that Interpol was corrupted by having a member of the claw gang in Interpol by this I’m meaning the countess, otherwise great video
@@VtnVivi Now I am just speculating but what if someone one in the Interpol was working with Laparadox to stop sly, maybe Carmelita is just showing her alter ego to the Cooper gang but was in the reality was that she was so desperate so she convinced Penelope to turn bad just so Carmelita could erase the Coopers but Penelope did always have a thing for Sly. So maybe she just didn’t like his ethics so by knowing that he is gone she could blackmail Murray and Bentley by saying hey if you start doing bigger crimes then save laws sly but if you don’t we’ll say goodbye to your friend.
Been away for a week since I've been re-arranging my room and re-painted the walls completely. Thanks for your patience, and as always thank you for the support!
(The echo has to do with my empty walls... got to hang everything back up).
-Love, Vivi :)
Cool dude, cool.
I'd do the same thing with room. =')
Really hoping they can give us sly 5 for PS5
@@jacobmillenbach2561 And those 2 names, go so well with each other.
Here's hoping. 😎😃👊🏾
I would be interested to know how your home was 😋👌🏻! :P
Potential room tour? ()-:
The code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules
Nice reference. :)
It also helps that they *specialize* in going after crooks, not exclusively go after them.
Hector Barbossa agrees
I'm a simple man, I see Sly Cooper, i click
;)
same
According to Thieves in Time, Tennessee was the one that started the rule of stealing exclusively from other criminals. But if you look at Sly 1 (you know, the original trilogy that is the be all, end all of Sly lore because Sanzaru made a lot of continuity errors in Sly 4), Sly says that Slytunkhamen used his invisibility technique to steal from corrupt pharaohs and greedy noblemen. Basically implying that exclusively stealing from other criminals and corrupt figures has been a staple of the Cooper Clan since the beginning.
"The old itch" quote in Sly 4 never sat well with me from the first time I heard it. Sly gave up everything he knew to start a life with Carmelita. Saying he "needed to pull a heist" the way he did plus "the old itch" makes it seem like Sly is addicted to stealing. But according to the ending of Sly 3, he isn't. He quit cold turkey to be with Carmelita. I like Kevin Miller's interpretation of it, but it seems the vast majority of the audience interpreted it in a negative light which means it could have been delivered better.
5:00 Yes, the Japanese dagger was being displayed in a museum that Le Paradox owned. We all know he dealt in rare antiquities on the black market for years before he went after the Cooper Clan.
There are multiple instances of the gang stealing for the fun of it. Plenty of examples in the first game alone in most of the episode ending cutscenes. Gold stars from Hollywood, the bag of crown jewels from England, their "shopping" in China, and the casual mention of the Firestone of India in the prologue. The video from the second game of them stealing a priceless stamp. And let's not forget "Goodbye, My Sweet" in Sly 3 where they steal a heavily guarded and expensive chocolate bar and then proceed to eat it as if they had just returned from a run to the candy store. (I should mention that I paused the video at 6:22 to write this paragraph.)
So no, Sly doesn't exclusively steal from other criminals. But he also doesn't steal from ordinary people. He steals priceless artifacts for kicks and giggles from places that can afford it, and in some cases, turns around and returns what he stole. In this sense, I believe Sly upholds his moral code.
8:59 Umm... Literally a minute after he steals the watch from Muggshot, he slips it to Carmelita. And knowing her, we can assume she returned it to its rightful owner. We can gauge from Bentley's and Murray's reactions that their intent was to keep the watch for themselves, but I mentioned before that Sly has a track record of returning artifacts that he's stolen.
9:50 I like the idea of someone challenging Sly's moral code, which brings to mind a moral code of his that the fans have collectively agreed upon: he doesn't like killing. How this got started, I don't know, but it suits him. As for the antagonist doing the moral code challenging, following Sly and his actions all the way from the orphanage to the present is a bit of a stretch. It would be more believable if the antagonist started their personal investigation of Sly and his gang during the height of their infamy.
About Carmelita and the gold watch, that was a spur of the moment thing, Sly's goal in that short was to go through a heist, he even said not everything went as planned, but good catch!
^
@@VtnVivi Thank you. Bentley and Murray definitely weren't happy with that one, but seem to be used to Sly's shenanigans at this point.
The Sly Cooper trilogy is an absolute nostalgic masterpiece. Along with Jak and Ratchet & Clank. Each game had remarkable stories with surprising plot twist and lovable characters that got developed. I truly wish that there would be a day where this trilogy would get the proper remake it truly deserves.
The way when Sly's ancestors: the Cooper Clan steals from other thieves, criminals, and villains, I think they're sort of the vigilantes. I guess. 🤔🙂
Vigilantes that take pay from the crooks they take down , exactly what got me into this game when I was little
Yeah they’re vigilantes.
Vigilante is something I imagine yes!
Yeah they're basically anti-heroes. They steal, but only from other criminals
@@littenfire3563 Well, Sly and his ancestors are the great master thieves.
Sly said they specialized in stealing from criminals, he never said they only stole from criminals. And he never said they had a strict moral code or rules against stealing from non-criminals, just that there was no honour, challenge, or fun stealing from ordinary people. That implies that the bulk of their targets were criminals, not that it was criminals exclusively, and they were unlikely to target ordinary people, such as those of the middle class or lower.
By the way, the queen of England and other filthy rich people with fortresses, mountains of wealth, and private armies, do not qualify as 'ordinary people.'
Even at that, this is something I feel can be explored more!
I hope a future sly game will touch upon the orphanage and sly's younger years
BIG YES
I also hope we get to meet sly' s dad. Connor Cooper.
@@msfox103able me to
Like the tutorial missions should start you off with the cookie jar hiest
@@VtnVivi or... Instead of a antagonist...
A person who only questions Sly's Morality because he cares about legitimacy in everything rather than harming Sly. That his intentions aren't to harm Sly but to encourage Sly to think about what he's doing. Minus the evil parts, yes this person knows about Sly, but has a ability to question the morality of many others. Easily notices it by traveling. Not with the intent to "expose" someone, but to encourage someone through their will to do for the better. Though the one questioning Sly's morality is not the biggest moral guy out there, he is able to point out anyone's morality, even his own, erasing the need for calling him a hypocrite. As he himself will admit that he might still be doing immoral things as it is to balance he himself rather than harm the populace. For in orderyou to get to heaven, you must climb and survive through the horrifying nightmare that is hell itself. Every immoral thing he himself will do, he will do it reluctantly but press on because he got himself into this situation, and he must find a way into heaven by getting out of it.
To be fair, that chocolate bar basically constituted class warfare.
Sup Quantum
@@VtnVivi Hi there.
I suspect the line about stealing only from master criminals was put into the game to prevent glorifying thievery. The Sly Cooper series is aimed at kids, after all. Despite that, Sly is not as honorable as he claims to be. He might not even realize how bad he is. He's still a lot better and more moral than the villains he fights, though. If a Sly 5 happens, perhaps there will be a character like you mentioned, Vivi. Someone that challenges Sly's beliefs and mindset. Perhaps he will become the man he claims to be: a thief that only steals from the corrupt. Until then, he is more of a "do as I say and not what I do" type of guy. At least, that's how I observe it.
So much story potential!
"Somehow lure Carmelita into his world just as he did into hers."
If Carmelita becomes a thief, I am deleting the game...
I highly doubt it, if Carmelite was to quit her career, that she loves, to be with Sly.
I see Sly and Carmelite's relationship, basically being like one of those stories.
Their relationship will grow on, but they'll keep it a secret from interpol, since their after Sly at times.
Plus most likely, the Cooper Line will continue through Sly and Carmelite, because I don't really see it ending, with Sly being the last Cooper.
But of course, their children will also be a secret, depending on who's directing the next story.
@@VongolaXZax I am not sure the story will go even that far. I am sure the last thing we will see of Cooper is how he hangs up being a thief for good to be with his foxie.
You are right that Sly won't be the last Cooper but he might be the last thief. Like Vivi said, someone might confront Sly's morals and he might realize that the only way to be "moral" is not to be "criminal" at all. But that's just me:)
@@AndasMus Basically, have Sly end, like how Uncharted 4: A Thief's Ended with Drake.
But I get what your saying, the series would most likely end with Sly finally settling down with Carmelite, and starting a family, being the last thief.
But that's if Sly chooses not to tell his children of their family lineage.
Just talking about it, makes me think of the endless ways, Sly 5 could end or continue the series, but it all depends on the game Devs, that Sony allows to make another Sly game, if they think Sly 5 should end the series or it could lead to new stories.
Me personally, I rather Sly continue to be Sly, while also being with Carmelite, eventually having a family, that continues the Cooper Line of Thieves, and have Sly 5 end that way, or continue series.
Stories like that, always worked, but again, it could go either way, I wouldn't be surprised if the story did end, with Sly permanently retiring and agreeing with Carmelite not to tell their children about his family history, but in the end, Sly's son finds his cane, smiling just like Sly. =')
Showing us that there are still stories, for the Thievius Raccoonus to tell.
@@VongolaXZax That 's actually a great idea. Sly's son finding the cane and becoming a thief while his father retires. Damn, Carmelita's gonna be heartbroken though😥
@@AndasMus Yeah, but probably like Sly, she'll have to accept that cooper blood flows through her sons veins. 😅
While Sly does have the "need" to steal, it's still not full on kleptomania, as Sly does not check on all the criteria to be one. He could only check on one of the criteria, which is stealing items on impulse without monetary value or necessity.
I've honestly been thinking about this a lot lately which is weird that you posted this around the same time. lol I love the idea that Sly and his family only steal from other thieves/criminals, but you're absolutely right that there's been too many instances where that's not the case. I honestly just mark it up to writers not really thinking about the "moral code" when writing up cutscenes/comedic bits like the Queen's Jewels and the Chocolate Bar. lol It was all in good fun, but contradicts the family code, so its certainly confusing. Its funny how I never thought about it growing up and playing the games.
They could literally explore that in writing!!!!!
One of the most morally questionable parts in the franchise is in the 3rd episode of Sly 3. Sly and the gang slaughter regular guards/pilots who are just doing their job by using a Wolf to maul them.
Natural selection XD
And Murray threw guards into the mouth of a crocodile
For some reason this made me laugh
I miss sly cooper why sony can’t put Remaster of this game?
We all do :)
They've been dropping sly cooper easter eggs as of late maybe there hinting on bringing sly back
@@patrickromero2262 where did u see that can u send links, i cant find anything about it
@@kagemanden1918 they did a sly cooper easter egg for ghost of tsushima ✊
they might do sly 5 but look sly 4 how many years it took to made it 7-8 years and why they did that secret sly ending where sly wakes up in egypt i think it means if the series continue it means first map gonna be ancient egypt we already saw sly 1 map 3 the paper said something about pharaoh cooper who stole things
So good to have you back Vivi! Where have you been the past week?! I was so worried! Lol
I pinned a comment! I was re-painting my room completely and re-arranging furniture.
@@VtnVivi ooh nice! You’ll have to show us a video of your new room sometime if you can okay? How’s kingdom hearts melody of memory going by the way too?
Always drop everything to come watch when you upload! Especially if it’s about our favorite raccoon!
Aww this means a lot! Just don't break anything when dropping stuff :P
The family code could change for each cooper generation
In a good way or bad way?
@@VtnVivi probably both
@@renamon5658 That brings up a discussion, whether or not any member of the cooper clan were evil/bad.
Because a person's own code, of what's right or wrong in their own eyes, without following that path that is good, will always end up leaving them doing more evil than good.
Because we don't really know, whether all Coopers were good, or there was some members that aren't really brought up, except in the Thievius Raccoonus.
But, going back to what you said about, the moral code "could" being changed, from family generation to generation, what if there was, a member of the cooper clan that actually stole from innocents, which one of the things that Coopers never do.
Which also brings up another discussion, was there ever a Cooper, that was expelled from the clan? 🤔
I've been waiting for this!
This is something I thought about too, concerning Sly's Code Of Honor/Moral Code.
The one thing we know, is the Cooper clan are not villains, they're good/vigilantes, they steal from other thieves, who are also bad guys, to prove themselves, because remember what Sly said in the first game, "after all, there's no honor, no challenge, no fun in stealing from regular people" or in this case, innocent people.
_"You rip off a master criminal and you know you're a master thief"._
_Sly_
I believe this was a long time goal of every Cooper in the clan, but who started this goal? 🤔
If this is Sly's opinion, then he's only speaking for himself, but if Conner taught him this, then someone in the Cooper lineage, started this tradition.
Certainly not Bob, he only dealt in eggs for eating and stealing other things, can't speak for Slytunkhamen, but maybe the II or III son?
Definitely vigilante vibes with this series :)
Yep, rightyo. =')
Awesome and cool!
Sky Cooper: Cool!
Molly: Hmmm
Amy: yup.
*Sly
@@anancapcat4221 Sky is my oc.
While he has his 'code' to only steal from criminals. I can belive Sly take the 'no honor stealing from from ordinary people' more too heart, as in: personal proparties are of the topic (unless its from a criminal that is). And thats why he has no problem stealing from museums and public places. Its not own by one person so its not stealing from ordinary people.
Here's something I've wondered: does Sly choose to be a thief because he wanted to become one or it was just expected of him to be one? I find it hard to believe every member of the Cooper family were thieves since there are some very large time gaps between some of his ancestors. Another way of putting it: Carmelita said she was the fourth member in her family to be in law enforcement, say she had more family members who were in law enforcement, does she carry on the "family tradition" because she wanted to or it was expected of her to do so?
I would love to have more Sly Cooper comics/manga/graphic novels. We could definitely use having more thieving/heist comic book lines and Sly would be a good addition to it
Finally I've been thinking about the itch sly had for awhile now and how on their "vacations" or "rests"from 1 to 3 and how Bentley and Murray clearly was shown to do other things while sly always stole things. Great vid by the way!
Thanks!
I always questioned in the folder that sly has of his ancestors there are pictures of them how the hell were they able to have pictures of themselves without any cameras.
Well, we have to remember that, in every century throughout history, pictures have been made differently.
Option 2; Sly in 5, travels through time, taking pictures. Lol
@@VongolaXZax the quality of the pictures are from present day and yes that is what I thought that it was sly who took the pictures lol
You tell me ahahaha!!!! Maybe time travel shenanigans? Sly IS stuck in Egypt.
@@VtnVivi I watched most of your sly cooper videos bc I am a big sly fan. You should make a theory video on how the ancestors pictures are in the folder
I think that what Sly said in the first game refers to the fact that his family whenever they made a hit had to be something big, that's why he said that there was no honor in robbing normal people, for example, interpol was not corrupt or anything but stealing from a cop was something very honorable for a thief and the same case occurs with the chocolate bar since it is shown that sly partly wanted to steal the bar cuz it was in the custody of Carmelita
also generally there are many errors like these throughout the series such as sly's gloves in cinematics, maybe many of these errors were not changed for some release date or they simply ignored these errors since they were in a very advanced stage of development
The yellow gloves hehe!
Bravo my friend! This is one of those few times I've got absolutely nothing to say here.
Why thank you!
I wont give up on googling & youtube searching for sly 5 news. he was there for me, im there for him.
I can't wait for the fourth ranking video, I hope that it will come soon. 😢
I love the idea of future games or media exploring Sly's morality! We get glimpses of it here and there in the games; where they challenge Sly's character. (In sly 3, the antagonist calls Sly a "self centered egomaniac"). It would be amazing to see it fully fleshed out, as you presented here.
Yeah, this is definitely something to think about...
For the Sly 4 watch thing, don't forget that Sly gave it back to Carmelita at the end of the short.
6:54 That joke was amazing
I would like to think that Sly had some good intentions when stealing these certain items thinking it was from a criminal. For whatever those intentions are, I can't really determine.
In theory, they didn't have the hazard room in sly 1, so he must've have been doing it for training. Some might be corrupt, some may not.
So proud that is someone still talks about the best game series ever 🥺
Glad you enjoy the content!
its good to see u back.
I think there have been some dark moments in the sly saga(feeding the crocodile, druging an elefant etc) for sly to say he has been following a code.
if its only for the phrase he said in the first game... he didnt really, the first game was revenge, the second its basically ending clockwerk and the third its the vault, all personal reasons, there was no I steal this bank because it was stealing for the poor.
pd: sly 4 didnt exist:(.
Exact words can save Sly here... he said that the code is that they *specialize* in going after crooks, not *exclusively* go after other crooks.
Thus making it a bit more flexible, as long as other crooks are what he primarily goes after, he is upholding it... but if there is a quick job for tossed in for some other reason (like getting something to help him fix the timeline, for instance... or just to have a bit of fun and "flirt" with Carmelita), that's fine too.
This is a very entertaining and thought provoking analysis! You brought up a lot of good points!
I feel like his moral code always had to do with how much it affects people, if only a little then he doesn't hesitate to have a candy, or fruit, or mess with someone like Dimitri (just because of rivalry's) but I would love to see someone come out and call Cooper out on his stuff, kind of like Dr.M did, he had a lot of good points he made and they left his backstory of betrayed vague, we could see if he has a kid who wants revenge or maybe someone tied to him who got wind of what happened and then gathered further info like you said, either way a conflict that forces him to deal with his own hypocrisy would be awesome and a great character development story ~
i miss sly
Me and my friends are going to play alle the 4 games this weekend. I cant wait!!
Have fun!
Go for it :D
A thing that i heard in 5:09 onward
"Did that object belong to a criminal?"
There was a cutscene in sly 4, where it was explained, that Le Paradox was importing old stuff inside the same museum as a "collector", which was later revealed to be a product of time-traveling shenanigans with the other villains (in which i believe was the way the skunk gained the funding for everything/anything necessary)
And even if it was from an villain (from feudal japan, which was mentioned in a cutscene too), from an ethnical stand point, nobody could give a damn about a decades old sword by the present day, since the main point is to the cooper gang and later for carmelita, that it's imported by Le Paradox the skunk...
Correct me if i missed anything, just a thing i remembered personally after watching this video.
I was wondering when you'd post again ;) Good to see you Vivi!
Aww you're too kind!
Sly 4 is made by a different team and studio so I wouldn't take much from that game into consideration. As for stealing from the "landowners" and such, they fall into the category of "the wealthy" so they don't exactly count as "ordinary people"
Honestly what you said is really a good upcoming story for a Sly Cooper 5. I think after Bentley, Murray and Carmelita rescue Sly Cooper and take him back home they’d be so happy to have Sly Cooper back but now that you mentioned that someone though possibly a main antagonist, an unseen character or possibly Penelope who escaped from prison would question Sly’s morality I think this is how it will go. When Sly Cooper is sleeping with Carmelita Fox for the night he’s been having nightmares of his inner demons all saying “You are not who you think you are”. I can imagine how spine chilling that line would be and when his nightmare overwhelms him he’d wake up instantaneously and Carmelita would wake up from Sly’s panic. Carmelita will tell him what happened and at that point it’s time for Sly to reveal the truth thus cue the story of Sly Cooper 5. The nightmare sequence I can imagine Clockwerk, Penelope, Neyla and another entity all psychologically taunt Sly, questioning his morality of his honor for stealing from bad guys and criminals and any of the past items he stole were either actually from the bad guys or from the ordinary guys before the bad guys steal it. I hope Sly can pass this test of morality and prove to be himself. As a master thief in pulling of a heist Sly always says that he only steals from other thieves, maybe why not have a secondary source of stealing like stealing the object before the bad guys steal it. I can imagine Sly Cooper is the male counterpart of Carmen Sandiego.
I always imagined young Sly having nightmares at the orphanage, cue cookie heist! But just the idea of nightmares would be pretty effective for the story :)
@@VtnVivi Glad to hear that. Like I said after rescuing Sly he and Carmelita would spend the night and as Sly is sleeping he begins having nightmares and when it overwhelms him he wakes up like he got a flashback. I think Sly might have PTSD because prior to the events of the Sly Cooper series we see him as a young boy with his father and mother and when the Fiendish Five broke into his home Sly witness them murder his mom and dad and steal the Thevius Racoonus I could assume that haunted him for quite sometime of course he has Bentley and Murray plus Carmelita but I keep thinking that Sly’s moment when he witness the Fiendish Five murder his mom and dad would still haunt him and that along with the past thieve of his ancestors it interferes with Sly’s morality. When he reveals the truth about his family to Carmelita maybe she’d give him a hug of comfort after revealing the truth about what happened to his family prior to the events of Sly Cooper. Sly’s backstory is really sad, Sly as a child witnessing the Fiendish Five murdering his mom and dad and stealing the Thievius Racoonus ripping off pages of the book in the process. Man it left me wonder “if they want to wipe out the Coopers why they choose to spare Sly, shouldn’t they kill him to completely wipe out the Cooper Clan?” Then I thought that Clockwerk telling the Fiendish Five to let Sly live was the most stupid thing he’s ever done because he underestimated him.
Missed you man, so glad another Sly Cooper video is out. Me personally I think when it comes to Sly's moral code he does his best but tends too faulter at times. Heck if the game wasn't E and was made with more SERIOUS tones we could've gotten a Sly who tries his best to follow a code but at times wavers too a more destructive path. For an idea/example (using sly 1) when he fights the Panda King he beats him and just continues to throw punches and it takes Bentley shouting in his ear to get him to stop. Dark and doesn't fit i know but I just can't help but picture it. Like if they EVER rebooted it and wanted to go serious than thats the way I'd want it to go, show a Sly who after all the Trama he's been through still finds a way to not become th monster that Clockwork wants him to be. Like that's kind of what Clockwork wants, he wants to desecrate not only the Cooper legacy but the Cooper code by having one who abandons his morals just for revenge.
Sly could very well be hiding his own demons just waiting to burst.
He said his family SPECIALIZES in stealing from criminals, not that they ONLY steal from criminals.
Sly Cooper: wE OnLy stEAL frOm OthEr thIEvEs.
VTNVIVI: Are you sure about that?
Interpol was corrupt in some point, Neyla and Contessa from sly 2
Oh i haven't think that like you told in the video (i mean like that deep. But I've been thinking about it a little bit.)
Interesting video so thank you! :o
I love your videos man! I remember watching ur sly videos since 2014. Still bumped out we haven’t got another game or at least a movie or show, but I’m still hoping. 💙
Thanks for the longtime support!
Great video VTNVIVI!!!...And boy did you disappear for a while, but it doesn't matter, you're here, and all your subscribers prefer a few minutes of you than an eternity without you❤️😋✨!!!...Ah , by the way "I wish you a happy December"✨🌲🌲!! :P
Aww you're too sweet!
@@VtnVivi Awwn thanks ^^!!
They still not cause the feel like cause its a challenge. What truly makes them great is that they are a family willing to protect each other like in Sly 4 shown when they are caring for each other and treat them like how they are. Sly ain't no hero but he sure is a great character.
When i saw it was a sly video i had to click
Glad you tuned in :D
for the watch tho, he does give it to Carmelita after they beat mugshot
True true! I believe that was the spur of a moment thing :)
@@VtnVivi ❤️❤️ i totally get it :p
I’ve been meaning to ask but if it’s okay with you, can we DM on Twitter? I’ve never met another person so into the series and I’d love to talk theories n whatnot!
@@katrinastar652 Sure :D
This is exactly what I have been saying about Sly Cooper. This franchise needs a REBOOT.
My only comment is on “Timing is Everything”. It was revealed that he left the watch with Carmelita at the end of the clip.
I just finished the remastered sly cooper trilogy a couple days ago. Man I sure hope they come out with another game or something at least to end sly cooper on a good note. Will always be my favorite games of all time🦝
I feel ya!
If Sly 5 gets made, the Penelope story could go with the moral theme. If Clockwerk had a failsafe to upload his consciousness to other pieces of technology, it could be that he reached a few known characters and corrupted them with his hate. It's quite human to have your opinions moulded by our environment and I think it would fit with the series' tone and create a new dilemma / enemy opportunities.
Penelope could be worried about telling the others and have spoken to him in secret, and perhaps she later enabled him to reach others / achieve his sinister goals
Pretty sure Sly kills loads of henchmen and villains throughout the games. So murder seems to be alright with him.
Was waiting for this comment....Realistically, do they really kill those guards or put them to sleep?
@@VtnVivi if I knock them into a bottomless pit, or get them mauled by a giant wolf/bear, or throw them into fire or hit them with electricity... Could go on. Maybe you could say the take downs/silent obliteration is you knocking them out or putting them to sleep, buuut other than that, you're pretty much straight killing them. It's not "murder" but it is killing, even if self defense or otherwise
Honestly, having someone question Sly's morals would be very interesting, almost like what Dr. M did. He questioned why it was called The Cooper gang, why Sly seemed to get all the attention while his friends were in his shadow, underneath him. It could be very interesting to see how Sly would take those news, would he be angry about it? Sad? Confused? There is no way to know for sure, but I do believe that if someone told him that he was breaking his own moral code, he would stop for a moment and think about it and find out if he really are doing things for the right reasons, or if it turns out he has a selfish itch that needs to be scratched
Absolutely! Perhaps Dr. M was onto something :O
You know what? This could be a really good point for Clockwork. Clockwork has watched the coopers for centuries if not thousands of years - and has faced many of the Coopers in the past and been defeated. Would it not be so hard to assume one reason he hates the Coopers to begin with would be on this same line of Hypocracy? If we possibly go back as far as "Bob" Cooper - he either must have watched via the help of someone whom knew how to create a time machine (Penelope) to send his robotic owls to that point or had to of been there himself (He is a HUGE owl, would fit a period of giant creatures being about but this is a stretch.) And if we go up to Slyttankhamen (probably botched that spelling) where he also could originate; a betrayal to Clockwork here with perchance of a promise or broken friendship (Perhaps a theft that leaves a potential beloved of Clockwork's in the wrong hands of the law and gets them killed: akin to happened with LaParadox''s Father and Sly's Father) would have started it off. To watch the coopers for centuries beating him and increasing their skills - making Hypocritical statements or actions after observing them for so long.
And if he potentially was working with Penelope in some way shape or form (As this was another potential theory for why Penelope felt the same as Dr.M after a while) and got a spiffy new - smaller and slim mechanical body...a more fitting thieving body...One that could perform all the techniques he has witnessed through the centuries of watching of his most hated enemies...And no longer bound by the Hate-Chip. Perhaps masterful enough to point every Hypocracy into Sly's face in an epic showdown and using his same family's techniques against him - enhanced in some way as he is very ingenuitive (seriously who does what the hell he did and NOT be a genius the dude practically found a way to be immortal) It just all seems like its the perfect set up to have Clockwork come back "bigger" and bad-er than ever. Stealing the Techniques of the Greatest Thieves -and arguably - most Masterful of Criminals; to make his own name that much greater. The Perfect Thief?
God i miss sly! 😭
Man i miss these games :///
Is it strange that I slightly got some Persona 4 vibes from this video?
It feels as though this "morale code" was more so of a way for the coopers to make themselves different from other thieves: "we specialized in stealing from other criminals...there's no fun or honor in stealing from ordinary people but if you stole from criminals that would make you a master thief." Sly admits he comes from a family of criminals but how many of them followed this "morale code" since there is no proof of that other than what Sly said.
Sly claims to steal from other criminals but what about all those times he stole things that he didn't even need or had anything to do with the morale code. Just because they mainly stole from other criminals doesn't make them any better given how Sly likely stole things he didn't even need and just stole something because he felt like it. Along with we never really know what Sly does with the things he steals and only steals things because he felt like stealing something.
The "itch" is a compulsive desire, the inescapable urge to do something. And in my opinion, the moral code is lopsided and flawed, as The Contessa said in Sly 2 and Carmelita in the comics, because in a way they technically steal from non-criminals by not returning what was stolen from them.
In the latter's words: "Don't get me started! Where do you think those thieves get their loot from?! They steal it! So, I don't care where you think you sit on the food chain, you're still breaking the law!"
The Time when The Cooper Gang Stole Rajan's Gem in exchange for a cherry bomb 500.
tenessse : robs bank
sly : We only steal from other thieives
Personally, i woudn't mind if we get a sort of chapter where Sly face his family legacy and this time has to deal with other Cooper clans. Maybe some didn't like to steal, but others get too much greedy and dangerous. Or continue to work like they always did but much more professional and in the shadows unlike Sly does.
Sly did break the rule (I think). Sly stole cookies at the orphanage
Well he was just a child at that point.
Frankly speaking, there's still a lot of unresolved issues in the Sly Cooper series.
5:13 World's largest diamond I thought the Coopers stole from corrupt villains
Yeah I wonder...
So hearing is believing, not seeing.
That's what Sly seemed to have taught us....in reality it's the opposite. They could use this to dive deeper into his character.
What would happened if Sly meets the Ramseys back in time
I want a crazy open world sly cooper game with a multi-player mode cops vs thrives I think it would be awesome!!
Some open world elements would be cool, but not to an extent which changes the feel of the game.
I'm wondering if the cutscene creators were given directions that the writers weren't aware of; it feels like they were told to showcase the fact that stealing is in Sly's blood but weren't told that he was an honourable thief who only stole from other thieves. Either way I think they could tap upon this in a sequel game (Yes, I dare to believe that there will be a sequel game) and have Sly question his own actions, possibly even question if his own ego is preventing him from realising that he's going against his family code. Maybe the unseen victims from the cutscenes could confront him in some way.
YES
I still have to beat sly 1 and 2 now that I think of it
Would have been so cool if they introduced Släi MacCooper in Sly 4, and henriette one eye cooper
An excellent study!
As soon as I saw Sly 4, I opted out. As far as I'm concerned, it's non-cannon. And before people come at me in the comments, Sly 4 could take place a few months after Sly 3. It just makes Sly a shitty person, giving up everything and then going back because he felt "the itch". Like he's some junkie. And the problem is this story problem could have been easily fixed given we're dealing with Time Travel. Bentley says, "The TR is disappearing! Sly we need your help." Sly says, "Maybe it's for the best." Carmelita gets his ass into gear.
I personally like Sly 4, yeah it does have its flaws.
Well, specializing into something dosnt mean for me, you cant do the other things.
The Dagger was owned by Le Paradox, and Sly left the Watch with Carmelita
Exactly
Sly left that watch for Carmelita as a last second thing no? The Dagger was owned by Paradox, but did Sly know that in the beginning?
@@VtnVivi He was investigating Le Paradox's Museum, and he already got intel that Cyrille was dealing in Black Market Antiques. He was pretty much doing better on the case then Carmelita.
I too have been thinking about that phase from kingdom hearts 3 remind.
I think in kingdom hearts we are playing as the villains not the heroes.
The truth is not what you hear but what you see.
How many organizations members that were actually defeated? 7.
Here is the list of the “hero team”
Sora, Riku, Kairi, Aqua, Ventus, Terra, Roxas, Lea, Xion, king Mickey, Donald, Goofy and emohimer. That 13!
And isn’t the saying
wait a sec what about sly 3 when doc m told him about including his friends in sharing the vault after helping him?
What do you mean exactly?
But to keep his legacy alive he does those things.
This makes to me in a way not the just moral code
I think it’s like game or a challenge to wealthy, army like El jefe, museum or master thief’s that’s the risk that’s the fun
But stealing from the middle class, poor class, homeless, anything lower than that or killing (yes it looks killed the bodyguard he didn’t) there’s no fun
In their honor it’s like how people have there own moral code
After seeing this some say Dr M was probably right all along
That's deep....THAT right there would be a good starting point for a potential story!
Honestly, he kinda was to be honest. The coopers would hoard all the wealth they stole and kept the vault a secret to only within their family. I mean, what point is there to keep a private vault full of all your ill-gotten treasure if its just a boast?
I never thought Sly Cooper story that much when playing. It was interesting that it had story which wasn't simple as most platformers. Even most people just are waiting that sweet new Sly Cooper game. I did like Sly Cooper 4 as much as others but it had own issues but as a game, it works well. Even it ruined especially one thing but I do not judge this game series on story that much. Future Sly game could benefit on this idea as thinking himself that knowing is that moral code really a thing of his heritage.
I love Sly for its story and characters for sure!
This one caught me by suprise
I personally love this topic in particular!
You should make a video about Sly Cooper: Revenge Of Thieves it’s a Dreams game that someone just developed recently and the sly model looks like sly from Sly 1.
Sly in Dreams is something I'd love to explore eventually!
2:55 Yeah but what about people who are blind? Like completely blind?
Exactly what I was saying lol. 😂
If people are completely blind, then it's nothing to deceive them with false teaching.
Because whatever the teacher, teaches them, they'll believe it to be true.
I don't believe in that, you can still get tricked, if "seeing is believing" with you.
Even when you do see, you still have to discern, and search out the matter, before jumping the gun.
As far as hearing goes, you have to be careful with what you hear, how you hear and what you take in.
I.e. digest.
Well if you put it that way.....
Misunderstandings is definitely possible when seeing things.
@@VtnVivi And another thing. My Dad once told me that the difference between lies and and the truth, is a matter of perspective.
Wow, this made me think a lot. Nice video, by the way :)
Thank you!
🦝🐢🦛🦊I hope and one day they return to Sly Cooper, the gang and Carmelita ♥😔👊🏻♥!!!
the term ordinary people may exclude people like royalty, cities, countries, and celebrities and no doubt more but it's possible the gang steals things like the statue from dimitri for favors or money for travel or necessities, we see this in sly 2 episode 3 when they steal the large ruby they do this for a buyer to help aid them in a heist it's possible they steal from more ordinary people every now and then to help prepare for larger heists from criminals
In short, they steal regardless... out of necessity?
@@VtnVivi yes, though how much is unknown in general
6:55 i could be wrong but i think that says Don Knotts
Sly Cooper?! *takes puff of cigarette* I havent heard that name in years
The giant cooper vault says it all, they kept all the money from the corrupt and I assumed only used a portion of it for themselves. I mean Dr.M wanted to get into the vault that held zillions from each cooper generation. But I will say it takes the Lupin the 3rd approach given that it was one of it's influences. Which on a side note VTNVIVI, have you watched that anime?
I have not watched that anime :O
we "Don Kno" best joke they ever made wooow hahaha XD
But it's not hard to tell, that Sly steals for his own gain, or at least his own satisfaction.
Exactly! I want someone to tell that to his face and play with his emotions.
@@VtnVivi Dude, hardcore right now. 😅
But yeah lol, Sly's morals being questioned, would be interesting.
Yeah well, you see the thing is. A person who specializes does not mean it's the only thing they do. An assassin who specializes in taking down crime lords does not mean he can and only will take down crime lords. You could also argue in terms of rules layering. That, queen of England, Interpol etc. Aren't "Ordinary" people. "Right side of the law" is not by definition "ordinary". What Sly and his family consider "ordinary people" is up to the definition. But I'd argue it's more a case of them never pulling heists on people just trying to get by and those who are...regular civilians.
Fair enough :D
@@VtnVivi Ah shucks I realize I came across pretty condescending in a way I wrote that comment. Love your content especially because Sly series is not that well known or popular amongst content creators so I have huge respect for effort you do to go in-depth with the series. Keep it up!
Hi VIVI om just wondering regarding the video if they didn’t show that Interpol was corrupted by having a member of the claw gang in Interpol by this I’m meaning the countess, otherwise great video
They had no idea she was part of the Klaww gang though :)
@@VtnVivi Now I am just speculating but what if someone one in the Interpol was working with Laparadox to stop sly, maybe Carmelita is just showing her alter ego to the Cooper gang but was in the reality was that she was so desperate so she convinced Penelope to turn bad just so Carmelita could erase the Coopers but Penelope did always have a thing for Sly. So maybe she just didn’t like his ethics so by knowing that he is gone she could blackmail Murray and Bentley by saying hey if you start doing bigger crimes then save laws sly but if you don’t we’ll say goodbye to your friend.