Excellent review of basic required knowledge and background of the how's and why's as well as (although brief) a clear and precise presentation on the operation in the field. One of the best explanations on youtube. Nicely done!
As a sailboater we have been attuned to technology of 4 step chargers, battery temp sensors , external regulators etc. for years- that said I am currently outfitting my née RV with a lithium battery system and this piece of equipment is ESSENTIAL and your review was excellent! Thank you
I bought this because I wanted to get a 4 stage charge done on my AGM battery and this one seemed to offer that. I had a deeply discharged battery so I started the car and started driving. Right now, I'm 2200 miles away from home and I still haven't gotten it into the fourth stage. My family must be wondering where I am but I am fully committed to getting my battery to 100%.
A couple of notes from a Mechanic: You may want to have an idle up box installed for long idle time or a higher amperage alternator if your charging at 11.8 volts. The alternator will likely get very very hot while it is overloaded like that. You are effectivly overloading the alternator, at least at idle anyways. Keep in mind due to losses, the unit may put out 30 amps, but very likely consumes closer to 40 amps, if your vehicle has a 90 amp alternator that is rated to put out full current closer to 1500-2000rpm then it is being taxed very hard. You may expereience early alternator failure. Depending on the vehicles setup, you may wish to install heavier AWG alternator charge wiring/fusing (usually fusable links) as well as a more heavy duty alternator. Most of these DC-DC chargers require you to install the vehicle power feed (input) at the starting battery to avoid noise from the alternator, DO NOT connect it directly to the alternator unless the instructions allow it. Alot of vehicles only have 10-8awg charge wires from the alternator to the main battery which may not do well when pulling high current for a long period of time with a DC-DC charger. (Melting for instance) Keep all this in mind when applying more load to any charging system. Always seek out a qualified mechanic who knows electrical systems when modifying any charging circuits. An increasing amount of newer vehicles have advanced charging which is integrated into the vehicles electrical and computer control systems, and require special care when doing any modifications. Sincerly, The Guy Who Has Seen Many Melted Electrical Things
@@HerveSACUTO yes i had not metioned it, but 4 awg cables are likely the minimum for this setup, and another note is to make sure the engine grounds and body grounds are nice heavy cable as well. You can never go wrong with nice heavy engine and body ground wiring.
@@isdits If you are referring to the dual 220amp setup (total of 440amps), yes the dual setup would easily send 40 amps down to the RV. Even one of those alternators would be suffecient even for a 50amp charger with larger wiring back to the trailer as long as you dont have any other large loads on the same single alternator. Duals are often used for plow trucks and winch setups which can pull up to 300 amps intermittantly under severe conditions. If you have duals you can easily charge your trailer with a larger DC-DC unit as long as you wire it correctly and and with heavy enough cables.
@@gidderman Yes, thanks! A few hours ago I watched a you tube video of a guy with (2) 40amp chargers on his setup because of the 2 alternators on his 3500 ram. It was a different brand and seemed like he had to do a lot more to get that extra 10 amps, but it takes less time to charge his 600 AH batt bank. This unit seems to have the essentials built in. The way technology changes so fast by next year you'll be able to simply drive up to your battery bank, blow your horn twice and that will charge it up. Thanks.
one other big benefit of the dc to dc charger is that it protects your alternator. Most lithium battery setups can take way more amperage than an alternator can provide. A lithium battery could suck your starting battery dry and burn up your alternator. The dc to dc charger caps the current draw to the rated amps (the charger I have is a 30 amp charger, so I know that is the max extra burden the charger will put on my truck)
Victron have great products, however I switched to the enerdrive dcdc 40+ amp mppt controller, it charges at idle at 32 amps. Extra amps come from faster operation, as in 100km per hour, it runs a 200 amp hr lithium. With 300 watt flex solar, it can take up to 800 watts of solar. This wipes the victron out of the game. Ive had the unit in action for 2 yrs with not one problem
I have 2 100ah deep cycle batteries in my minivan build to power lights, fridge etc. The batteries drop to 60-70% throughout the night. In the summer, my 100w solar panel tops the batteries off by noon everyday and remains in the 90+% all day. Cloudy days and/or in winter my panel wont top the batteries off. So I am adding a Victron Energy Orion-Tr IP43 12/12-Volt 9 amp 110-Watt DC-DC Converter, Isolated- that I got for free. Since my solar is only 100w at best.
Great Video. I'm setting up a new camper trailer and learning. Looking at this dcdc 39 amp charger, and a victron 100/50 ago MPPT. thou concerned this is not enough solar charging for a 600ah lithium setup. Proposed two x3m 300w panels in camper, but how do hook up a 3rd portable solar panel, say a 250 or 300w one. Do I need an additional MPPT charger?
I am in the design phase to transform a Sprinter 211 cdi, new (2021), L1H1, all a little tight !!!!, but perfect for use here in Europe and exploring small towns, easy to park ... etc But now I got to the point of doing the electrical project, which I'm not used to doing, I'm a civil engineer, I understand 110 / 220v AC circuits. I wish you could help me with that part. I'm Brazilian, but I also live a lot here in Portugal, where I'm going to do the conversion. Well, I started making a spreadsheet, with the equipment, the necessary power and time of daily use, I have no intention of filling the motorhome with things, not least because it is a Sprinter L1H1, and I would like to have a simple electrical installation, but I would not like have gas inside, so I would prefer a stove with only one induction zone. To heat the water it would be a D6 truma, which is diesel. But from the calculations I made and compared with others I saw on the net, it seems that it ends up consuming a lot of energy, making the electrical part more expensive. I don't want to spend so much just because of induction. I don't know what other electrical equipment I would still need for everything to work, still using the car's alternator and an external 220v point when stopped at a camping site. In your opinion, which a good configuration sufficient to have a quick meal, with induction and stay out of the network for a day or two? Well, the result of the spreadsheet was: 220V equipment notebook - 65w - 1 hour of use - 5.4 Ah induction cooker - 1800w - 0,4 hour of use - 60 Ah 12V equipment USB - 50w - 1 hour of use - 4.2 Ah refrigerator - 45w - 8 hours of use - 30 Ah lights - 15w - 3 hours of use - 1.3 Ah water pump - 42 w - 0.5 hours of use - 1.8 Ah exhaust fan wc - 40 w - 1 hour of use - 3.3 Ah I will be very grateful if you can help me by presenting an wiring electrical diagram with the necessary equipment. I appreciate if you answer. my address is: joaolp55 @ gmail com Thanks
Hi Mate How many batteries are you going to install? Are you going to use Lithium batteries. Personally down here in Africa we prefer using gas cookers to save on our electrical systems. It looks like you will be using around 110 amp hours per day so that will determine how many days you can park for. If you want to be parked off grid for 2 days I would recommend at least 300amp hours of Lithium batteries. From experience using the Victron DC-DC charger when driving you will be able to replace approximately 40 to 45 amp per hour of driving if you are using Lithium units. If you then stop at a campsite with power you can plug in too. Just remember you may still have some catch....so fit a big AC charger in order to cope with your usage and re-charging batteries. I hope this helps.
Hi! Great review! Will this allow me to start my engine with the auxiliary battery or at least use ALL batteries I have in case of being out in the bush too long without charging with engine?
Hi thanks for informative vid. Question???? I’m in 🇨🇦. Can I use 6 AWG WIRE for this. It’s 8 feet from rear lithium battery to my car battery. Some people say I should use 1awg wire!!! Not too sure seems extreme
Hi, I have a very small 56Ah AGM auxiliary battery bank which is made up of (x2) 28Ah batteries in parallel for the refrigerator in my Jeep. Id love to run a DCDC charger between my starter battery and my battery bank but the smallest DCDC I’ve found is 20A which puts out too much power for my 56Ah setup. Are there any DCDC options for a bank as small as mine? I should add that my Jeep has a 160A alternator which is NOT a smart alternator.
Great video. Thanks for explaining the charging phases, everything was well explained, it was also nice to see how the app works. However I am wondering if there is a way to turn it off when driving. Say I needed some extra oomph going up a massive hill and wanted to stop it from charging my aux batts temporarily, is there a way to do this?
Yes. There's are multiple options. Including a switch. Read the victron installation manual for it, and you will see multiple drawings for your installation.
Thank you for all your good advice thank you May I ask do you have a lithium battery video that I could watch about how to fit a lithium battery to my truck for the leisure side Kindest regards
Nice video R and D. Questions. Has the marine carpet melted behind the Orion in the canopy where you have mounted from heat? Bluetooth on the Orion tr appears to be not as good as the other units such as mppt or bmv is this the case for you? Thanks
Hi Jarrod The carpet has been fine to date. (est 10000kms) Some of which was done in 45degC and very slow speeds in the canopy. I have not had any out of the ordinary bluetooth issues, all the units seem to behave the same.
I see you have a solar controller on there as well. I have been getting the things together before undergoing the install and wanting to do both soar and alternator, I have shore power figured out too..... My thoughts are how "low" do I use the batteries before re-charging or backing off use? With the older batteries, such as in this video, if I see a volt meter of the battery getting down into the 12s I start cutting use. I am using the LiFiPO4 100 amp via the blackborn ... but not got it all together installed.
Hi David, Sorry about the delay in this reply. I am prepared to drain my lithium battery down to 10% before recharging. Because we drive a lot on our trips it never really gets this low but that is where I would be stopping should this ever happen.
Hello, I want to replace the batteries of my motorhome for a 300ah lithium. I bought the victron isolated smart dc-dc 12v 30 amps. Can I connect the victron changer with the wires that are currently connected to my auxiliary batteries (by adding 60 amp fuse protection at the input to the output) to my new lithium without modifying the old installation...
Looks like a great device but it lacks two features. The biggest drawback is that Victron doesn't offer a programmable current limit. You need the older and more expensive Victron Buck-Boost converter for that.
Hi. Thanks for the video. I have a question about using this Victron. Does it "have to" be powered by the alternator or can it be lugged into one of the 12v 10A ports in a vehicle meant for accessories such as a cigarette lighter? Thanks.
It must go to a supply that is able to withstand the current draw. A 10amp fuse circuit (assuming the wires are sized accordingly) would not be capable of connecting to. You would blow the fuse.
Chris, what impact does this charger have on the alternator performance in a standard vehicle such as your hilux? Generally the alternator will kick back when your main battery is charged after 5-7km. Charging lithium from an alternator is already a challenge on its own, but I am more concerned about overheating of the alternator. I am just lazy to read up on the charging current expected for a deep cycle battery versus the alternator, what can you tell me about this. Can the Victron limit the charging current to the spare battery through a setting?
Hi Fergus I have set my Victron unit to engage at quite a low voltage from the alternator which means it runs even if the engine is idling. I have had this unit in for around 10 000km and I have a fridge running in the vehicle permanently. ie the DC-DC works daily. I have had no alternator issues at all.
Great review and unit . It would be better if you show the wiring. Two more question, a) what if I have a big alternator, say 300Amps, can I parallel them? b) is there a similar unit outputting 48v which I am planning for my housing batteries. Thanks a lot.
Hiya Fred. If you send me your email address I can send you a few pics of the wiring we do here at R and D Offroad. My guess would be that if you were using a 300amp alternator your charging time would be very fast indeed so speed would not be an issue. The problem would be not being able to apply the correct charging cycle to the type of batteries you are using. And in that case reducing the life span of the unit. You do get Victron units that will charge 48V battery banks mate. Please contact your local dealer for exact application details.
Hey Cris great video. I have a similar setup MPPT 75/15, Orion 12/12/18 and 220/15 AC to DC charger. My question is do I need Cyrix CT/ Cyrix LI CT combiner and the Orion DC-DC chargers or can I just use the Orion DC-DC to also act as an isolator. Thanks for your assistance.
Great video thanks. I have 2 Agm service batteries at 24V setup and bought an orion smart non-isolated 12-24 V charger. Should I consider buying an isolated one? Or can I in a way isolate my main and service batteries connection when the charger gets off via engine runing detection or victron aplication input voltage set up?
The "isolated" vs "non-isolated" just refers to the ground being isolated or shared. It has nothing to do with isolating your house batteries from your vehicle battery. If you're in a vehicle and using the frame as a ground, then you're not isolated anyway so you're good using the non-isolated version. The isolated version is only necessary if you're using interference-prone equipment and don't want it to pick up hum, etc.
ok so a bit of a novice here. It looked like no real power was going in the main battery and it was all going to the leisure battery. Should it not make sure the starter battery was full before taking so much power.
But one of the most important things it should be able to report is the amount of current it is supplying to charge the battery. How could they have overlooked that?
I have been looking at doing this for my boat. However, I need to charge 2 battery banks, with dc to dc charger one is lithium and the other agm. How can l set this up as the batteries have different charge profiles?
Normally, start battery would top off quickly, but in this case the house battery via the Orion is always pulling down the voltage so the alternator will stay under load until house batteries are nearly or fully charged. My question is whether this continuous load on the alternator will cause it to wear out quickly.
Hi Bucky There will be a constant load but it will be for a much shorter time than if the alternator was try to charge the house battery without the DC to DC. In my truck I could put 40amp hours back into my battery in under an hour. Without the DC to DC it would probably take the best part of 6 to 8 hours of driving with the alternator trying to charge both batteries. I believe this will possibly save the alternator a bit of life. Cheers Cris PS I have not physically tested this theory!!! Just an opinion.
that's great! thanks for the informations. just a doubt, what about an old vehicle with a small alternator? is there any way to limit/adjust the output current of the Victron DC-DC?
i saw the mppt in the background is that connected to the start or the house? if its connected to the start and charges the house via the orion, is there an issue with the solar putting in say 10 amps and the orion pulling 30 amps? wont that flatten the start battery?
Chris, how do you manage the MPPT and the Orion at the same time? I also have just installed a similar system and I seem to be having some conflicting issue when both chargers are on and the Orion does not seem to be doing is job properly. It seems as, if the MPPT is putting even a small amount of AMP into the battery, the Orion does not work! You seem to have a Venus GX also installed, which I do not have. Is this important to take care of the two chargers? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Adri
Hi Adri Thanks for your question. I will be honest, up to now I have been testing a portable flex panel on my system. This means the Orion is never on when the solar is plugged in. I am however in the process of finishing off the development on our Tankwa roof tent and this will have a panel permanently mounted and wired up. Then I will have the same setup as you appear to be running. If the sun comes out this week I will test your setup on my truck and see what happens. Please give me a few days for feedback. THanks Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 Hi Chris, nice to hear another South African. great video, Im doing my homework on both Solar controllers and DC to DC chargers. In the past I had a single unit (CTEK Dual) but now plan to go with what you have. My question, 1)do you in anyway link the two units together or are they both 'individually' connected to the Leisure Battery ? 2) Does the MPPT controller also have a feature of trickle charging the Started battery like the Ctek ? 3) Other DCtoDC chargers that I have seen have a small wire to the ignition to detect a smart alternator. I didnt notice this on the Victron, is it just clever and can detect that without the extra input ? Thank you
@@jamesramsey5577 Hi James, I have connected both my units through a shunt and the BMV 712 Smart monitor. So therefore yes they are both connected directly to the battery. Please watch my video for more info on the monitor! - That is the most important part of any battery system in my humble opinion. To the best of my knowledge these units do not have a trickle charge option; only an external load output for auxiliaries. The Orion does not need to "pick up" that it is a smart alternator, it simply takes the current provided and then performs the correct charge cycles on the output side to properly charge your specific type of battery. I hope this all makes sense. Cheers Cris
Good day do you have a diagram how to add the 75/15 to the installation. I have an XT140 offroad trailer with the solar charger 75/15. I need to add the dc to dc charger
Hi, thanks for a great video. I’m looking to buy the Orion for my change to Lithium on my sailboat. I’m gonna use a small AGM for starter battery (60ah) and a lifepo4 200ah single battery for house bank. I’m planning to use the Orion primarily to protect my alternator from overheating witch is good :) at the same time it will slow the charge down compared to the more expensive solution of upgrading to a newer smart alternator. I’m planning on connecting both agm and lifepo4 battery to Orion. Does this work? Can I still set the best charge setting for my lifepo4 (AGM is cheaper so better to optimize charge setting to lifepo4. Does this work? Would you recommend this setup?
Hi Sebastion, As per your message I understand the AGM battery to be on the alternator side of the Orion unit (Input side) and the Lithium on the output side. In this case no problem at all. You will set the output charge to suit the Lithium battery. You definitely should not run different batteries on the output side of the unit.
That's how many people are setting up DIY marine installs, hybrid lead acid starter batteries/lithium house batteries . Charging the lithiums from the lead acids is not the most efficient way to do things but it works and is cheaper than replacing all the various chargers and the alternator.
Hi Chris, thanks for the great video. BUT, I have the same installed, the Bluetooth app shows Power Supply and a Charger function...The charger has three settings to complete, of which one is the engine cut out...Could You pse give screenshots of each setting, power supply and Charger...I have also found that if you setup power supply settings, and you go to charger settings, and go back to the power supply settings, it defaults back to factory settings, and the result is it will drain the main battery, sitting at 10.5 - 11.5 volts...Pse assist, thanks
Hi Chris If you don't mind I would like to ask you a question. I am researching the Victron Orion Isolated DC-DC charger. I see you have used that one but I don't see the return neutral cable to the Charger. Have you grounded at the Leisure battery end to the Chassis? If so why did you not use a non isolated Victron Orion?
Hi Linda, thank you for your question. All our neutral cables always get grounded to the battery and never to the chassis. Much better earth connection. Cheers Cris
Great video. I am about to upgrade my leisure battery in my sprinter campervan from agm to lithium. The new leisure battery will be one 280ah lithium battery. I am thinking a victron 12/12-30 dc to dc charger wont be enough to timely charge the 280ah battery. Would you suggest I upgrade to 2 dc to dc chargers with a parallel connection? Gordon
Hi Gordon. You will need to check recommend maximum charge rate for your new batteries and then add the correct number of DC to DC units to get your required charging time.
Howdy Bruce Rule of thumb is to supply no less than 10% of battery bank.....which in your case would be 36Amps. I chatted to the Victron guys here in SA and they feel you will be on the limit but it will be ok. OR pop two 100Amp Lithiums in......LOL
R and D Offroad - Thanks a Tom Cris, I thought I would be on the limit. I don’t have long enough pockets for Lithium unfortunately. Appreciate the effort and advice mate..
Great Review, why does the voltage drop to 11.8V on the vehicle once its started, that sounds a little low , does it eventually go up ? Sorry im still learning these things and want to get one of these DC to DC chargers in the near future
Input voltage as seen on the Victron app will always be lower than the voltage at the battery once charging has started as there are cable losses. Basically when you push 30 amps through a cable the voltage drops (you saw in the video the voltage was high when the car first started (14v) and then dropped once the charging cycle started (11.8v) - essentially when the current began to flow). This is a function of the cable length and cable diameter. Bigger cable, shorter length will have a smaller voltage drop.
@@grahamfielder4498 A little bit of calculation says cable Ohms = 73mOhms . That is 8 feet of 20 AWG or 250 feet of 4 AWG. So something else is happening besides a function of the cable length and cable diameter.
I am looking at getting this unit. Just to be clear you are saying it will charge at 30 amps while the vehicle is idling? It does not have to be going down the road at 60 mph to charge at that rate?
May I “mix” this charger with the energy from my mppt solar system, to have both systems charging at the same time? Is there any problem to put both outputs (dc dc charger and mppt output) conected in paralell to the battery? Many thanks!
Generally speaking, there is no big harm to connect multiple charge sources to the same DC bus. Especially as you have described. There can be issues though. If the DC bus voltage is artificially high because of one charger, another charger may think the batteries are very full, and then change it's charge state accordingly. So you might have a less efficient charging of the battery from the MPPT because it goes into float early, thinking the battery is full. That will happen automatically if things are programmed correctly, they will all be looking for an absorption voltage, and not really care how you get there. There is also the possibility of overloading your DC wiring. If you have only wired and fused for 30A at a time, and you get 2 going at once, you might get 60A and blow a fuse. 30A into a 100Ah Lead Acid battery is too much anyway, so it is likely the battery voltage will shoot up and the chargers will back off and restrict their current anyway. Battery charging is a balance between performance and longevity. The faster you charge a battery, the shorter its life will be, and the less efficient that charging will be. I wouldn't bother with any fancy manual switching system. The best thing to do would be to get a GX device (like a Cerbo GX), connect the BMV and MPPT to it, set up DVCC, and set the maximum charge current (for the solar at least) to be dynamically controlled there. But that isn't necessary either, just the best thing to do. Pasted from Victron community page. community.victronenergy.com/questions/48180/how-to-setup-multiple-chargers-connecting-simultan.html
Hiya David I am running 16mm2 cable between both batteries. From the crank battery to the Orion is about 6m and from the Orion to the house battery is 1.5m. Hope this helps.
What is the difference between the isolated and the non-isolated version? I have the non-isolated version (which I haven't connected yet). I plan to use it to charge my lithium batteries from the alternator on my motorhome.
@@AndrewSparkfish I politely disagree. Even a non-isolated DC DC charger (such as CTEK, Projecta, Redarc) will isolate the plus terminals of the two batteries at all times, allowing for the voltage difference. With CTEK, you can combine their isolator and DC-DC charger for faster charging at low battery levels and ability to jump start the car from the service battery at the push of a button. I'm not sure if that would work with any other brands.
I've just purchased a 12 12 30amp non isolated unit unsure if the negative can go to the battery or should it go straight to the chassis hoping to put it to the leisure battery then just earth the leisure battery out thanks for any information
Hi Rain. I am a bit funny about this....I ALWAYS run earths to the battery and here at work we never earth to the chassis! I know many people feel it's being pedantic but hey, that's how I insist we do it!
@@randdoffroad3616 my 2 x secondary batteries is in the front, but I want to protect my Victron DC/DC do we planning to mount it in the rear with all the other electrical components. From what we can research is that if you use the correct thickness wire there will be no Voltage drop. What is your thoughts? I know everybody says they need to be close to each other but research shows it can be apart, but off-course not to far away
Absolutely correct. It is all about voltage drop. Minimize the drop and then you will not have a problem. A lot of folk get very carried away when talking about voltage drop (It is very important.)....do the maths for yourself if you are worried. We have found this topic to be a very slippery slope to discuss.....! Let me know if I can assist. Cheers Cris
Hi Matthew I am running the BMV 712 monitor on my truck so all my auxiliary negatives go through the shunt. At R and D Offroad we have a rule that NO negatives go to the vehicle chassis, they ALL go either to the main or aux battery depending on the specific accessory. Hope this helps.
@@randdoffroad3616 Question to further clarify your rule: is it true that so long as the the chassis battery (which is grounded to the chassis from the factory) is connected to the auxiliary negative bus bar that all other auxiliary components attach into, then the entire system is grounded?
I use the car chassis for ground and I don't see a reason not to. The service battery minus connects to the shunt *only* and the other side of the shunt connects to the chassis.
@@moneypitvan6378 Hiya MoneyPit. Sometimes we find that between the paint on the side of the frame, dirt in the captive nut and an oldish bolt you compromise the earth which then causes a number of small issues. Like leds lights not coming on or flickering. We have had warning lights come on on the dash due to poor earths and monitors not reading properly. It also makes problem solving very difficult if you are not 110% sure ALL the connections are good, therefore we do our utmost to always go straight to either the crank or aux battery. Hope this makes sense.
@@randdoffroad3616 Thanks for the help. Usually, with systems like these there is a way to bypass the smart alternator voltage sense and just plug in an ignition wire that tells the unit when the vehicle is turned on instead of it trying to do that based on voltage parameters alone. I think it is called a D+ wire.
I also do not understand how you can get 36 Ah back into your house batteries by putting 30 A into them for only 46 minutes = about 3/4 hr. This is wrong or something is wrong in my thinking that with this Victron device only a max of 30a can be delivered to the house batteries. Please explain. Thanks Chris.
@@randdoffroad3616 Or buy a Redarc 50A DC charger that has an MPPT controller built in. Also Enerdrive/KISAE makes a nice model that has MPPT and up to 50A from alternator.
I wanna like to install this Victron Orion DC-DC charger. I will replace my 2 AGM to 100 Ah Lithium Batteries in my RV . The Victron will be close to the house battery. The Dynamo is about 6m from the House battery. Will use 16mm positive wire here and a fuse(breaker) close to the starterbattery and alternator.How do you run the negativ wire to the Orion? From starter battery or vehicle chassis ground close by? Will have a switch where my emergency start(crank) rockerswitch are now. This will be removed and dismantled from this system.
@@randdoffroad3616 Cris, very good videos. I'm from Brazil and imported an Orion DC-DC 12-12v 18A isolated but I have two doubts. It will be installed there in the RV next to the battery bank of Lition (12v-500Ah), where at the output of Orion I will have two wire + - direct from Orion to the batteries. But on the Orion entry line I was going to pull just one thick wire (+) from the pickup's lead-acid battery and the thick negative wire was going to pull right there on the back of the chassis next to the RV. (but I saw your comment for not using the chassis to pull the negative wire at the entrance to Orion, could you tell me why? (see that my pickup is a Chevrolet 2019 diesel 4x4 with an INTELLIGENT 140A alternator, and the negative wire that comes out of the battery has a ring (ammeter) that measures the entire consumption of the car and informs the "UC", so if I pull it from the chassis, this consumption will pass through this wire as well that goes to the chassis and will even inform the ' UC "of Orion consumption to charge my batteries. If I pull a wire straight from the battery negative as I will do with the positive, I will not be able to pass this negative wire inside this ring, as it is already in the exact thickness of the pickup installed. This consumption, in my opinion would be important even for the 'UC' to know and inform the alternator to better control its load, no ??? What do you say? Well the second question is that my RV has the roof installed a 310W solar panel and 30A controller, which reaches deliver to the lithium batteries in certain times of perfect sun, about 24A. So my Lithium batteries have connected two charge sources in parallel at the same time (from the pickup by the alternator and from the solar panel by the controller). So, I was a bit conservative and I didn't buy the ORION 30A, first because I read that it heats up a lot, second because it is in parallel with the solar charge, and third that I worried a lot and I have doubts. For her Orion to deliver at 14v and 30A as shown, entering 12v at the entrance, she has to pull from her ALTERNATOR some 36 to 38A and that worried me, because a complete van full of electronics like mine, with headlights and headlights air conditioning, radio, GPS, charging cell phones, laptops and the main battery etc.etc.etc. the alternator will generate a very high current just to supply the pickup and if you have to send almost 40A more to Orion, I think it would be stressful for the alternator, you could have alternator wear, overheating, burning (Brazil is very hot like Africa ). So I chose to pull my alternator at a maximum of 22 to 23A with the Orion 18A (220W) lower power. Did I do it wrong or what could help me with my project that I'm starting to install. Thanks to the friend!
@@randdoffroad3616 First, thanks so much for the video. It's very informative and well done. Second, can you tell me why you always ground to the negative terminal on the starter battery rather than to the chassis? I have heard that the only time you need do so is if you have the isolated version to reduce interference with some radio frequencies--not something that is a concern for me. Thanks in advance for the help.
@@NeufsVideos Hi Neuf, lot's of different opinions on this subject. The only advantage for using the body/chassis would be saving on a piece of cable! If you are worried about potential weak earths, voltage drops or difficulty in problem solving then go onto the battery mate. Cheers Cris
Hi ! You have problem ! Tension fall from 14 to 12v Câbles résistance You have to try with BIG cable and short The 30amp need 10mm2 because he can get 40-45 and in entry maybe more 16mm2 is the best , 2 m max Entry tension need to be very close after chargeur is on
Hi! In my case the DC-DC unit is very close to the battery so no voltage loss. If the distance increases then thicker cables may be required depending on distance.
@@randdoffroad3616 Hi Chris, I think the comment referred to the fact that when you started the vehicle the Victron app showed 14v on the input side and once charging started (30a draw) the input voltage dropped to 11.8v on the app. There will be some voltage drop with 30 amps running, how much is length and diameter dependent obviously.
@@grahamfielder4498 Hi Graham, I had a club cab pickup and ran 16mm sq cable to the DCtoDC charger which was mounted in the rear of the vehicle. We then ran the saqme 16mm cable straight to the battery which was only about 800mm from the DCto DC. Cheers Cris
Thanks for the great video, Chis. Your video along with other reviews on this product help reassure that this is the option for us.
Looking and sounding great, Cris! Miss you, man.
Excellent review of basic required knowledge and background of the how's and why's as well as (although brief) a clear and precise presentation on the operation in the field. One of the best explanations on youtube. Nicely done!
Wow, this is a very good and informative video! It helped me a lot. Thank for sharing!
As a sailboater we have been attuned to technology of 4 step chargers, battery temp sensors , external regulators etc. for years- that said I am currently outfitting my née RV with a lithium battery system and this piece of equipment is ESSENTIAL and your review was excellent! Thank you
Very helpful; nicely explained. Thanks.
Would love more on mobile power, solar, &c. Cheers.
More to come!
What a great review!
Thank you
Great information.. love the mix of SA and Ozzie accent too :)
I bought this because I wanted to get a 4 stage charge done on my AGM battery and this one seemed to offer that. I had a deeply discharged battery so I started the car and started driving. Right now, I'm 2200 miles away from home and I still haven't gotten it into the fourth stage. My family must be wondering where I am but I am fully committed to getting my battery to 100%.
Heeeeheeeee
Um, doesn't it start at the first step every time you start the motor? Wait what? The Orion-Tr Smart manual says three-step charging, not four.
@@niceguy100000 Ok in which case it should be safe to head back home.
If you got a bigger battery bank, you could conceivable stretch this roundtrip out for weeks and months - all for a good cause
A couple of notes from a Mechanic:
You may want to have an idle up box installed for long idle time or a higher amperage alternator if your charging at 11.8 volts. The alternator will likely get very very hot while it is overloaded like that. You are effectivly overloading the alternator, at least at idle anyways. Keep in mind due to losses, the unit may put out 30 amps, but very likely consumes closer to 40 amps, if your vehicle has a 90 amp alternator that is rated to put out full current closer to 1500-2000rpm then it is being taxed very hard. You may expereience early alternator failure. Depending on the vehicles setup, you may wish to install heavier AWG alternator charge wiring/fusing (usually fusable links) as well as a more heavy duty alternator. Most of these DC-DC chargers require you to install the vehicle power feed (input) at the starting battery to avoid noise from the alternator, DO NOT connect it directly to the alternator unless the instructions allow it. Alot of vehicles only have 10-8awg charge wires from the alternator to the main battery which may not do well when pulling high current for a long period of time with a DC-DC charger. (Melting for instance) Keep all this in mind when applying more load to any charging system. Always seek out a qualified mechanic who knows electrical systems when modifying any charging circuits. An increasing amount of newer vehicles have advanced charging which is integrated into the vehicles electrical and computer control systems, and require special care when doing any modifications.
Sincerly,
The Guy Who Has Seen Many Melted Electrical Things
I agree , I’m sure the cables are too small
The entry power go from 14 to 12v
@@HerveSACUTO yes i had not metioned it, but 4 awg cables are likely the minimum for this setup, and another note is to make sure the engine grounds and body grounds are nice heavy cable as well. You can never go wrong with nice heavy engine and body ground wiring.
Are you familiar with the two alternator setup on a dodge ram 5500? Would something like this be better suited for one of these chargers?
@@isdits If you are referring to the dual 220amp setup (total of 440amps), yes the dual setup would easily send 40 amps down to the RV. Even one of those alternators would be suffecient even for a 50amp charger with larger wiring back to the trailer as long as you dont have any other large loads on the same single alternator. Duals are often used for plow trucks and winch setups which can pull up to 300 amps intermittantly under severe conditions. If you have duals you can easily charge your trailer with a larger DC-DC unit as long as you wire it correctly and and with heavy enough cables.
@@gidderman Yes, thanks! A few hours ago I watched a you tube video of a guy with (2) 40amp chargers on his setup because of the 2 alternators on his 3500 ram. It was a different brand and seemed like he had to do a lot more to get that extra 10 amps, but it takes less time to charge his 600 AH batt bank. This unit seems to have the essentials built in. The way technology changes so fast by next year you'll be able to simply drive up to your battery bank, blow your horn twice and that will charge it up. Thanks.
one other big benefit of the dc to dc charger is that it protects your alternator. Most lithium battery setups can take way more amperage than an alternator can provide. A lithium battery could suck your starting battery dry and burn up your alternator. The dc to dc charger caps the current draw to the rated amps (the charger I have is a 30 amp charger, so I know that is the max extra burden the charger will put on my truck)
Very informative, thank you!
Victron have great products, however I switched to the enerdrive dcdc 40+ amp mppt controller, it charges at idle at 32 amps. Extra amps come from faster operation, as in 100km per hour, it runs a 200 amp hr lithium. With 300 watt flex solar, it can take up to 800 watts of solar. This wipes the victron out of the game. Ive had the unit in action for 2 yrs with not one problem
Well done for the info, very informative for even the layman. Thanks for a great post
Very welcome
Very clear vid 👍👍 Thankyou.
I have 2 100ah deep cycle batteries in my minivan build to power lights, fridge etc. The batteries drop to 60-70% throughout the night. In the summer, my 100w solar panel tops the batteries off by noon everyday and remains in the 90+% all day.
Cloudy days and/or in winter my panel wont top the batteries off. So I am adding a Victron Energy Orion-Tr IP43 12/12-Volt 9 amp 110-Watt DC-DC Converter, Isolated- that I got for free. Since my solar is only 100w at best.
Great Video. I'm setting up a new camper trailer and learning. Looking at this dcdc 39 amp charger, and a victron 100/50 ago MPPT. thou concerned this is not enough solar charging for a 600ah lithium setup.
Proposed two x3m 300w panels in camper, but how do hook up a 3rd portable solar panel, say a 250 or 300w one. Do I need an additional MPPT charger?
I am in the design phase to transform a Sprinter 211 cdi, new (2021), L1H1, all a little tight !!!!, but perfect for use here in Europe and exploring small towns, easy to park ... etc
But now I got to the point of doing the electrical project, which I'm not used to doing, I'm a civil engineer, I understand 110 / 220v AC circuits.
I wish you could help me with that part.
I'm Brazilian, but I also live a lot here in Portugal, where I'm going to do the conversion.
Well, I started making a spreadsheet, with the equipment, the necessary power and time of daily use, I have no intention of filling the motorhome with things, not least because it is a Sprinter L1H1, and I would like to have a simple electrical installation, but I would not like have gas inside, so I would prefer a stove with only one induction zone.
To heat the water it would be a D6 truma, which is diesel.
But from the calculations I made and compared with others I saw on the net, it seems that it ends up consuming a lot of energy, making the electrical part more expensive.
I don't want to spend so much just because of induction.
I don't know what other electrical equipment I would still need for everything to work, still using the car's alternator and an external 220v point when stopped at a camping site.
In your opinion, which a good configuration sufficient to have a quick meal, with induction and stay out of the network for a day or two?
Well, the result of the spreadsheet was:
220V equipment
notebook - 65w - 1 hour of use - 5.4 Ah
induction cooker - 1800w - 0,4 hour of use - 60 Ah
12V equipment
USB - 50w - 1 hour of use - 4.2 Ah
refrigerator - 45w - 8 hours of use - 30 Ah
lights - 15w - 3 hours of use - 1.3 Ah
water pump - 42 w - 0.5 hours of use - 1.8 Ah
exhaust fan wc - 40 w - 1 hour of use - 3.3 Ah
I will be very grateful if you can help me by presenting an wiring electrical diagram with the necessary equipment.
I appreciate if you answer.
my address is: joaolp55 @ gmail com
Thanks
Hi Mate
How many batteries are you going to install? Are you going to use Lithium batteries.
Personally down here in Africa we prefer using gas cookers to save on our electrical systems.
It looks like you will be using around 110 amp hours per day so that will determine how many days you can park for. If you want to be parked off grid for 2 days I would recommend at least 300amp hours of Lithium batteries. From experience using the Victron DC-DC charger when driving you will be able to replace approximately 40 to 45 amp per hour of driving if you are using Lithium units. If you then stop at a campsite with power you can plug in too. Just remember you may still have some catch....so fit a big AC charger in order to cope with your usage and re-charging batteries.
I hope this helps.
Great Video, you said you were getting 50amps, but the scdc unit is only 30amp?
Exelent presentation
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi! Great review!
Will this allow me to start my engine with the auxiliary battery or at least use ALL batteries I have in case of being out in the bush too long without charging with engine?
Hi can you connect the victron solar panel up to your victron lithium battery what is being charged from the van
Hi thanks for informative vid. Question???? I’m in 🇨🇦. Can I use 6 AWG WIRE for this. It’s 8 feet from rear lithium battery to my car battery. Some people say I should use 1awg wire!!! Not too sure seems extreme
Hi, I have a very small 56Ah AGM auxiliary battery bank which is made up of (x2) 28Ah batteries in parallel for the refrigerator in my Jeep. Id love to run a DCDC charger between my starter battery and my battery bank but the smallest DCDC I’ve found is 20A which puts out too much power for my 56Ah setup. Are there any DCDC options for a bank as small as mine? I should add that my Jeep has a 160A alternator which is NOT a smart alternator.
Great video. Thanks for explaining the charging phases, everything was well explained, it was also nice to see how the app works. However I am wondering if there is a way to turn it off when driving. Say I needed some extra oomph going up a massive hill and wanted to stop it from charging my aux batts temporarily, is there a way to do this?
Yes. There's are multiple options. Including a switch. Read the victron installation manual for it, and you will see multiple drawings for your installation.
Thank you for all your good advice thank you
May I ask do you have a lithium battery video that I could watch about how to fit a lithium battery to my truck for the leisure side
Kindest regards
Hi Boo
No video yet, sorry!
in the orion smart charger, under setting, there is a "power supply" mode. What is it ? when to select that mode ? thanks
hi cris what size fuse are you using with the 16mm cable from the starter battery ?
Now if that also had an mppt solar input on the unit (like the ctek 250dual). Victron would have a true winner on there hands.
Maybe they should do a model that has MPPT solar input but not for all of them, just raises the price for people who don't need one.
Nice video R and D. Questions. Has the marine carpet melted behind the Orion in the canopy where you have mounted from heat? Bluetooth on the Orion tr appears to be not as good as the other units such as mppt or bmv is this the case for you? Thanks
Hi Jarrod
The carpet has been fine to date. (est 10000kms) Some of which was done in 45degC and very slow speeds in the canopy.
I have not had any out of the ordinary bluetooth issues, all the units seem to behave the same.
I see you have a solar controller on there as well. I have been getting the things together before undergoing the install and wanting to do both soar and alternator, I have shore power figured out too..... My thoughts are how "low" do I use the batteries before re-charging or backing off use? With the older batteries, such as in this video, if I see a volt meter of the battery getting down into the 12s I start cutting use. I am using the LiFiPO4 100 amp via the blackborn ... but not got it all together installed.
Hi David, Sorry about the delay in this reply. I am prepared to drain my lithium battery down to 10% before recharging. Because we drive a lot on our trips it never really gets this low but that is where I would be stopping should this ever happen.
Hello, I want to replace the batteries of my motorhome for a 300ah lithium. I bought the victron isolated smart dc-dc 12v 30 amps. Can I connect the victron changer with the wires that are currently connected to my auxiliary batteries (by adding 60 amp fuse protection at the input to the output) to my new lithium without modifying the old installation...
Looks like a great device but it lacks two features. The biggest drawback is that Victron doesn't offer a programmable current limit. You need the older and more expensive Victron Buck-Boost converter for that.
Hi Cris. Is this specific unit a converter or a charger ?
I saw your charger is set to factory default. If you are running lithium batteries, should it be set to LiFePO 4?
Hi. Thanks for the video. I have a question about using this Victron. Does it "have to" be powered by the alternator or can it be lugged into one of the 12v 10A ports in a vehicle meant for accessories such as a cigarette lighter? Thanks.
It must go to a supply that is able to withstand the current draw. A 10amp fuse circuit (assuming the wires are sized accordingly) would not be capable of connecting to. You would blow the fuse.
I wonder if victron do a 24 v to 12v model for vans /trucks with 24v systems I know sterling do ?
Yes they have got 24 to 12v also combined models to mix up 48 and 24 and 12
Chris, what impact does this charger have on the alternator performance in a standard vehicle such as your hilux? Generally the alternator will kick back when your main battery is charged after 5-7km. Charging lithium from an alternator is already a challenge on its own, but I am more concerned about overheating of the alternator. I am just lazy to read up on the charging current expected for a deep cycle battery versus the alternator, what can you tell me about this. Can the Victron limit the charging current to the spare battery through a setting?
Hi Fergus
I have set my Victron unit to engage at quite a low voltage from the alternator which means it runs even if the engine is idling. I have had this unit in for around 10 000km and I have a fridge running in the vehicle permanently. ie the DC-DC works daily. I have had no alternator issues at all.
Great review and unit . It would be better if you show the wiring. Two more question, a) what if I have a big alternator, say 300Amps, can I parallel them? b) is there a similar unit outputting 48v which I am planning for my housing batteries. Thanks a lot.
Hiya Fred.
If you send me your email address I can send you a few pics of the wiring we do here at R and D Offroad.
My guess would be that if you were using a 300amp alternator your charging time would be very fast indeed so speed would not be an issue. The problem would be not being able to apply the correct charging cycle to the type of batteries you are using. And in that case reducing the life span of the unit.
You do get Victron units that will charge 48V battery banks mate. Please contact your local dealer for exact application details.
Hey Cris great video. I have a similar setup MPPT 75/15, Orion 12/12/18 and 220/15 AC to DC charger. My question is do I need Cyrix CT/ Cyrix LI CT combiner and the Orion DC-DC chargers or can I just use the Orion DC-DC to also act as an isolator. Thanks for your assistance.
I would just use the DC-DC mate. Will work perfectly.
@@randdoffroad3616 Thanks. Keep the videos coming wish you guys were in Joburg.
The Enerdrive allows for different levels of charging in 5-amp increments from 5-50A.
This would be better in so many ways, they should all have current limiting built in.
Hi, I can't find your previous video that you speak of. Where can I find it?
It is on the R and D Offroad You Tube Channel
Great video thanks. I have 2 Agm service batteries at 24V setup and bought an orion smart non-isolated 12-24 V charger. Should I consider buying an isolated one? Or can I in a way isolate my main and service batteries connection when the charger gets off via engine runing detection or victron aplication input voltage set up?
Hi Taylan, I have spoken to the SA Importers and the unit you have will be fine for your application.
The "isolated" vs "non-isolated" just refers to the ground being isolated or shared. It has nothing to do with isolating your house batteries from your vehicle battery. If you're in a vehicle and using the frame as a ground, then you're not isolated anyway so you're good using the non-isolated version. The isolated version is only necessary if you're using interference-prone equipment and don't want it to pick up hum, etc.
ok so a bit of a novice here. It looked like no real power was going in the main battery and it was all going to the leisure battery. Should it not make sure the starter battery was full before taking so much power.
But one of the most important things it should be able to report is the amount of current it is supplying to charge the battery. How could they have overlooked that?
I have been looking at doing this for my boat. However, I need to charge 2 battery banks, with dc to dc charger one is lithium and the other agm. How can l set this up as the batteries have different charge profiles?
Hi Paul
You will need two DC to DC charges. One for each different charging profile.
Cheers
Cris
Normally, start battery would top off quickly, but in this case the house battery via the Orion is always pulling down the voltage so the alternator will stay under load until house batteries are nearly or fully charged. My question is whether this continuous load on the alternator will cause it to wear out quickly.
Hi Bucky
There will be a constant load but it will be for a much shorter time than if the alternator was try to charge the house battery without the DC to DC. In my truck I could put 40amp hours back into my battery in under an hour. Without the DC to DC it would probably take the best part of 6 to 8 hours of driving with the alternator trying to charge both batteries.
I believe this will possibly save the alternator a bit of life.
Cheers
Cris
PS I have not physically tested this theory!!! Just an opinion.
that's great! thanks for the informations.
just a doubt, what about an old vehicle with a small alternator? is there any way to limit/adjust the output current of the Victron DC-DC?
Why would you want to limit it Mario?
@@randdoffroad3616 because I have an old van with a small alternator and I don't want to distroy it cranking high current when idle
@@mariousai , if I understand correctly, you can limit the charge amperage by Bluetooth using the Victron Connect app
i saw the mppt in the background is that connected to the start or the house? if its connected to the start and charges the house via the orion, is there an issue with the solar putting in say 10 amps and the orion pulling 30 amps? wont that flatten the start battery?
Hi Superform
MPPT is connected straight to the house battery for exactly that reason.
Chris, how do you manage the MPPT and the Orion at the same time? I also have just installed a similar system and I seem to be having some conflicting issue when both chargers are on and the Orion does not seem to be doing is job properly. It seems as, if the MPPT is putting even a small amount of AMP into the battery, the Orion does not work! You seem to have a Venus GX also installed, which I do not have. Is this important to take care of the two chargers? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Adri
Hi Adri
Thanks for your question. I will be honest, up to now I have been testing a portable flex panel on my system. This means the Orion is never on when the solar is plugged in. I am however in the process of finishing off the development on our Tankwa roof tent and this will have a panel permanently mounted and wired up. Then I will have the same setup as you appear to be running. If the sun comes out this week I will test your setup on my truck and see what happens. Please give me a few days for feedback.
THanks
Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 Hi Chris, nice to hear another South African. great video, Im doing my homework on both Solar controllers and DC to DC chargers. In the past I had a single unit (CTEK Dual) but now plan to go with what you have. My question, 1)do you in anyway link the two units together or are they both 'individually' connected to the Leisure Battery ? 2) Does the MPPT controller also have a feature of trickle charging the Started battery like the Ctek ? 3) Other DCtoDC chargers that I have seen have a small wire to the ignition to detect a smart alternator. I didnt notice this on the Victron, is it just clever and can detect that without the extra input ? Thank you
@@jamesramsey5577 Hi James, I have connected both my units through a shunt and the BMV 712 Smart monitor. So therefore yes they are both connected directly to the battery. Please watch my video for more info on the monitor! - That is the most important part of any battery system in my humble opinion. To the best of my knowledge these units do not have a trickle charge option; only an external load output for auxiliaries. The Orion does not need to "pick up" that it is a smart alternator, it simply takes the current provided and then performs the correct charge cycles on the output side to properly charge your specific type of battery.
I hope this all makes sense.
Cheers
Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 All good information, thanks for getting back to me Cris, much appreciated.
Good day do you have a diagram how to add the 75/15 to the installation. I have an XT140 offroad trailer with the solar charger 75/15. I need to add the dc to dc charger
Hi Hannes, please feel free to call Johan at the office. I am sure he will assist.
Hi, thanks for a great video. I’m looking to buy the Orion for my change to Lithium on my sailboat. I’m gonna use a small AGM for starter battery (60ah) and a lifepo4 200ah single battery for house bank.
I’m planning to use the Orion primarily to protect my alternator from overheating witch is good :) at the same time it will slow the charge down compared to the more expensive solution of upgrading to a newer smart alternator.
I’m planning on connecting both agm and lifepo4 battery to Orion. Does this work? Can I still set the best charge setting for my lifepo4 (AGM is cheaper so better to optimize charge setting to lifepo4.
Does this work? Would you recommend this setup?
Hi Sebastion, As per your message I understand the AGM battery to be on the alternator side of the Orion unit (Input side) and the Lithium on the output side. In this case no problem at all. You will set the output charge to suit the Lithium battery. You definitely should not run different batteries on the output side of the unit.
That's how many people are setting up DIY marine installs, hybrid lead acid starter batteries/lithium house batteries . Charging the lithiums from the lead acids is not the most efficient way to do things but it works and is cheaper than replacing all the various chargers and the alternator.
Hi, Must you connect it to the alternator? Or can you simply connect to the vehicles main starter motor alone?
You can connect it to the vehicle starter battery. The alternator is connected to the starter battery anyway.
Hi Chris, thanks for the great video. BUT, I have the same installed, the Bluetooth app shows Power Supply and a Charger function...The charger has three settings to complete, of which one is the engine cut out...Could You pse give screenshots of each setting, power supply and Charger...I have also found that if you setup power supply settings, and you go to charger settings, and go back to the power supply settings, it defaults back to factory settings, and the result is it will drain the main battery, sitting at 10.5 - 11.5 volts...Pse assist, thanks
Howzit Johan,
Could please send us your email address and cell number to cris@randdoffroad.com . Cheers
Hi Chris If you don't mind I would like to ask you a question. I am researching the Victron Orion Isolated DC-DC charger. I see you have used that one but I don't see the return neutral cable to the Charger. Have you grounded at the Leisure battery end to the Chassis? If so why did you not use a non isolated Victron Orion?
Hi Linda, thank you for your question. All our neutral cables always get grounded to the battery and never to the chassis. Much better earth connection. Cheers Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 Thank you for getting back Cris.
Great video. I am about to upgrade my leisure battery in my sprinter campervan from agm to lithium. The new leisure battery will be one 280ah lithium battery. I am thinking a victron 12/12-30 dc to dc charger wont be enough to timely charge the 280ah battery. Would you suggest I upgrade to 2 dc to dc chargers with a parallel connection? Gordon
Hi Gordon. You will need to check recommend maximum charge rate for your new batteries and then add the correct number of DC to DC units to get your required charging time.
@@randdoffroad3616 Thank you...
Thanks Cris, how many batteries could I have to make 30amps enough. For example, if I had 3x120AH AGMs in parallel, would this system be enough?
Howdy Bruce
Rule of thumb is to supply no less than 10% of battery bank.....which in your case would be 36Amps. I chatted to the Victron guys here in SA and they feel you will be on the limit but it will be ok.
OR pop two 100Amp Lithiums in......LOL
R and D Offroad - Thanks a Tom Cris, I thought I would be on the limit. I don’t have long enough pockets for Lithium unfortunately. Appreciate the effort and advice mate..
@@BruceLauderdale I hear you mate. I was very very lucky to be sponsored a Lithium by VictronEnergy. Supa Kewl Kit.
Alternator output should be 13.8-14.6 V.
Great Review, why does the voltage drop to 11.8V on the vehicle once its started, that sounds a little low , does it eventually go up ? Sorry im still learning these things and want to get one of these DC to DC chargers in the near future
Hi Jeff
Yip, it comes up within a short period mate.
Cheers
Cris
Input voltage as seen on the Victron app will always be lower than the voltage at the battery once charging has started as there are cable losses. Basically when you push 30 amps through a cable the voltage drops (you saw in the video the voltage was high when the car first started (14v) and then dropped once the charging cycle started (11.8v) - essentially when the current began to flow). This is a function of the cable length and cable diameter. Bigger cable, shorter length will have a smaller voltage drop.
@@grahamfielder4498 A little bit of calculation says cable Ohms = 73mOhms . That is 8 feet of 20 AWG or 250 feet of 4 AWG.
So something else is happening besides a function of the cable length and cable diameter.
I am looking at getting this unit. Just to be clear you are saying it will charge at 30 amps while the vehicle is idling? It does not have to be going down the road at 60 mph to charge at that rate?
That is correct Rob! Up to 30amps depending of your batteries state of charge.
Will it work with lithium running with solar charger at the same time with a lead acid starter battery?
Yes it will indeed. I am using lead acid crank battery in my vehicle too.
May I “mix” this charger with the energy from my mppt solar system, to have both systems charging at the same time?
Is there any problem to put both outputs (dc dc charger and mppt output) conected in paralell to the battery?
Many thanks!
Generally speaking, there is no big harm to connect multiple charge sources to the same DC bus.
Especially as you have described. There can be issues though.
If the DC bus voltage is artificially high because of one charger, another charger may think the batteries are very full, and then change it's charge state accordingly.
So you might have a less efficient charging of the battery from the MPPT because it goes into float early, thinking the battery is full.
That will happen automatically if things are programmed correctly, they will all be looking for an absorption voltage, and not really care how you get there.
There is also the possibility of overloading your DC wiring. If you have only wired and fused for 30A at a time, and you get 2 going at once, you might get 60A and blow a fuse.
30A into a 100Ah Lead Acid battery is too much anyway, so it is likely the battery voltage will shoot up and the chargers will back off and restrict their current anyway.
Battery charging is a balance between performance and longevity. The faster you charge a battery, the shorter its life will be, and the less efficient that charging will be.
I wouldn't bother with any fancy manual switching system. The best thing to do would be to get a GX device (like a Cerbo GX), connect the BMV and MPPT to it, set up DVCC, and set the maximum charge current (for the solar at least) to be dynamically controlled there.
But that isn't necessary either, just the best thing to do.
Pasted from Victron community page. community.victronenergy.com/questions/48180/how-to-setup-multiple-chargers-connecting-simultan.html
Wonderfull explanation!
Thanks to teach me!
Regards from Argentina!
is it enough 30A to charger also 2 or more battery with Victron? or is it design only for one 12v battery
Hi Radu
2 x 105Amp batteries will be fine.
Could you please tell me what size wires you are using to/from both batteries. Thank you.
Hiya David
I am running 16mm2 cable between both batteries. From the crank battery to the Orion is about 6m and from the Orion to the house battery is 1.5m.
Hope this helps.
@@randdoffroad3616 Thank you!
What is the difference between the isolated and the non-isolated version? I have the non-isolated version (which I haven't connected yet). I plan to use it to charge my lithium batteries from the alternator on my motorhome.
By isolated they mean two separate grounds for the starter and service batteries. Not needed in 99% of cars.
@@AndrewSparkfish I politely disagree. Even a non-isolated DC DC charger (such as CTEK, Projecta, Redarc) will isolate the plus terminals of the two batteries at all times, allowing for the voltage difference. With CTEK, you can combine their isolator and DC-DC charger for faster charging at low battery levels and ability to jump start the car from the service battery at the push of a button. I'm not sure if that would work with any other brands.
@@niceguy100000 ...noted. Thanks for the insight.
I've just purchased a 12 12 30amp non isolated unit unsure if the negative can go to the battery or should it go straight to the chassis hoping to put it to the leisure battery then just earth the leisure battery out thanks for any information
Hi Rain. I am a bit funny about this....I ALWAYS run earths to the battery and here at work we never earth to the chassis! I know many people feel it's being pedantic but hey, that's how I insist we do it!
@@randdoffroad3616 thanks i do think it's a better option and easier thanks again
Did you wire the Charger directly to the alternator or did you wire it to the starter battery?
Hi Manny
Always to the battery not the alternator.
Thank you!
Chris where is the battery located? Also in the rear or back?
Hi Jonker Adventures
In my truck I have the aux battery mounted in the loadbin of the vehicle. Right below the Orion unit.
Cheers
@@randdoffroad3616 my 2 x secondary batteries is in the front, but I want to protect my Victron DC/DC do we planning to mount it in the rear with all the other electrical components. From what we can research is that if you use the correct thickness wire there will be no Voltage drop. What is your thoughts? I know everybody says they need to be close to each other but research shows it can be apart, but off-course not to far away
Absolutely correct. It is all about voltage drop. Minimize the drop and then you will not have a problem. A lot of folk get very carried away when talking about voltage drop (It is very important.)....do the maths for yourself if you are worried. We have found this topic to be a very slippery slope to discuss.....!
Let me know if I can assist.
Cheers
Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 thanks Chris
Chris, what size cable did you use on the input & output on the Orion?
Hi There, we have run 16mm to the unit and 8mm to the Lithium battery. (very short run)
@@randdoffroad3616 16mm2 ?!
There is a trouble , maybe put bigger fuse , classic 100 amps fuse
And very short and goods connections
Did you wire the input negative direct to the starter battery or to the vehicle chassis?
Hi Matthew
I am running the BMV 712 monitor on my truck so all my auxiliary negatives go through the shunt. At R and D Offroad we have a rule that NO negatives go to the vehicle chassis, they ALL go either to the main or aux battery depending on the specific accessory.
Hope this helps.
@@randdoffroad3616 Question to further clarify your rule: is it true that so long as the the chassis battery (which is grounded to the chassis from the factory) is connected to the auxiliary negative bus bar that all other auxiliary components attach into, then the entire system is grounded?
I use the car chassis for ground and I don't see a reason not to. The service battery minus connects to the shunt *only* and the other side of the shunt connects to the chassis.
@@randdoffroad3616 What kind of issues have you had using the chassis as a ground?
@@moneypitvan6378 Hiya MoneyPit. Sometimes we find that between the paint on the side of the frame, dirt in the captive nut and an oldish bolt you compromise the earth which then causes a number of small issues. Like leds lights not coming on or flickering. We have had warning lights come on on the dash due to poor earths and monitors not reading properly. It also makes problem solving very difficult if you are not 110% sure ALL the connections are good, therefore we do our utmost to always go straight to either the crank or aux battery. Hope this makes sense.
Is there an option to wire up an ignition on circuit into this ?
Hi Guarav, could you please give me a little more info as to what you would like to accomplish? Thanks mate
@@randdoffroad3616 Thanks for the help. Usually, with systems like these there is a way to bypass the smart alternator voltage sense and just plug in an ignition wire that tells the unit when the vehicle is turned on instead of it trying to do that based on voltage parameters alone. I think it is called a D+ wire.
Yip there is an option for that mate.
Hello. 10:54 You replaced 36 Ah with 46 minutes of 30 A amounting to 23 Ah?
I also do not understand how you can get 36 Ah back into your house batteries by putting 30 A into them for only 46 minutes = about 3/4 hr. This is wrong or something is wrong in my thinking that with this Victron device only a max of 30a can be delivered to the house batteries. Please explain. Thanks Chris.
Hi James
Please remember we are using a Lithium battery which charges very quickly compared to other deep cycle units.
I have a 220 amp alternator. Will that make a difference?
Not to the DC to DC charger, it will charge at the normal rate.
@@randdoffroad3616 Thanks.
Can these take a solar input as well?
Hi William. No, you will need to ad a separate solar regulator.
@@randdoffroad3616 Or buy a Redarc 50A DC charger that has an MPPT controller built in. Also Enerdrive/KISAE makes a nice model that has MPPT and up to 50A from alternator.
I wanna like to install this Victron Orion DC-DC charger. I will replace my 2 AGM to 100 Ah Lithium Batteries in my RV . The Victron will be close to the house battery. The Dynamo is about 6m from the House battery. Will use 16mm positive wire here and a fuse(breaker) close to the starterbattery and alternator.How do you run the negativ wire to the Orion? From starter battery or vehicle chassis ground close by? Will have a switch where my emergency start(crank) rockerswitch are now. This will be removed and dismantled from this system.
Hi Ove
We never ever use vehicle chassis as earth!!! Always run an earth cable with the positive from the battery to the Victron unit. Also 16mm.
@@randdoffroad3616
Cris, very good videos. I'm from Brazil and imported an Orion DC-DC 12-12v 18A isolated but I have two doubts. It will be installed there in the RV next to the battery bank of Lition (12v-500Ah), where at the output of Orion I will have two wire + - direct from Orion to the batteries. But on the Orion entry line I was going to pull just one thick wire (+) from the pickup's lead-acid battery and the thick negative wire was going to pull right there on the back of the chassis next to the RV. (but I saw your comment for not using the chassis to pull the negative wire at the entrance to Orion, could you tell me why? (see that my pickup is a Chevrolet 2019 diesel 4x4 with an INTELLIGENT 140A alternator, and the negative wire that comes out of the battery has a ring (ammeter) that measures the entire consumption of the car and informs the "UC", so if I pull it from the chassis, this consumption will pass through this wire as well that goes to the chassis and will even inform the ' UC "of Orion consumption to charge my batteries. If I pull a wire straight from the battery negative as I will do with the positive, I will not be able to pass this negative wire inside this ring, as it is already in the exact thickness of the pickup installed. This consumption, in my opinion would be important even for the 'UC' to know and inform the alternator to better control its load, no ??? What do you say? Well the second question is that my RV has the roof installed a 310W solar panel and 30A controller, which reaches deliver to the lithium batteries in certain times of perfect sun, about 24A. So my Lithium batteries have connected two charge sources in parallel at the same time (from the pickup by the alternator and from the solar panel by the controller). So, I was a bit conservative and I didn't buy the ORION 30A, first because I read that it heats up a lot, second because it is in parallel with the solar charge, and third that I worried a lot and I have doubts. For her Orion to deliver at 14v and 30A as shown, entering 12v at the entrance, she has to pull from her ALTERNATOR some 36 to 38A and that worried me, because a complete van full of electronics like mine, with headlights and headlights air conditioning, radio, GPS, charging cell phones, laptops and the main battery etc.etc.etc. the alternator will generate a very high current just to supply the pickup and if you have to send almost 40A more to Orion, I think it would be stressful for the alternator, you could have alternator wear, overheating, burning (Brazil is very hot like Africa ). So I chose to pull my alternator at a maximum of 22 to 23A with the Orion 18A (220W) lower power. Did I do it wrong or what could help me with my project that I'm starting to install. Thanks to the friend!
@@randdoffroad3616 First, thanks so much for the video. It's very informative and well done. Second, can you tell me why you always ground to the negative terminal on the starter battery rather than to the chassis? I have heard that the only time you need do so is if you have the isolated version to reduce interference with some radio frequencies--not something that is a concern for me. Thanks in advance for the help.
@@NeufsVideos Hi Neuf, lot's of different opinions on this subject. The only advantage for using the body/chassis would be saving on a piece of cable! If you are worried about potential weak earths, voltage drops or difficulty in problem solving then go onto the battery mate.
Cheers
Cris
@@randdoffroad3616 Great. Thanks so much for the reply.
I cant find if these are ignition protected?
Hi MSR, please give me more info on your question?
@@randdoffroad3616 is this " ignition protected" for use in marine gas/ petrol engine bays?
@@msgofast Hey guys, please send me your email address? Thanks
Darn, Mine didn't come with a bag.
LOL
great video, but that intro video sound effects are horrifying. Off-putting for sure, for an old coot like me.
Moi pas comprendre
Hi !
You have problem !
Tension fall from 14 to 12v
Câbles résistance
You have to try with BIG cable and short
The 30amp need 10mm2 because he can get 40-45 and in entry maybe more
16mm2 is the best , 2 m max
Entry tension need to be very close after chargeur is on
Hi!
In my case the DC-DC unit is very close to the battery so no voltage loss. If the distance increases then thicker cables may be required depending on distance.
@@randdoffroad3616 Hi Chris, I think the comment referred to the fact that when you started the vehicle the Victron app showed 14v on the input side and once charging started (30a draw) the input voltage dropped to 11.8v on the app. There will be some voltage drop with 30 amps running, how much is length and diameter dependent obviously.
@@grahamfielder4498 Hiya Graham, cable thickness will have an effect as well as the alternator not putting out constant volts all the time.
Hi Baraduke, it was fluctuation in the alternator not the cables.
@@grahamfielder4498 Hi Graham, I had a club cab pickup and ran 16mm sq cable to the DCtoDC charger which was mounted in the rear of the vehicle. We then ran the saqme 16mm cable straight to the battery which was only about 800mm from the DCto DC.
Cheers
Cris
Your volume is too low
I just want it to charge properly. I don't need to monitor anything. Why spend the money for something useless?