With the Auto-record Changer and silencing cabinet, which Michael 45 uses, the KLAudio runs out to 10k+. In my own experience and opinion, I feel the Degritter is the best ultrasonic unit out there only because it uses 120khzas its frequency which gets deeper into the groove than the 35/40khz units. pricing is in favor of the Humminguru.
Michael Fremer I love you, I hate you. I’ve NEVER cleaned my records other than the discwasher brush before use. I also use the stylus brush on every side. But watching your videos and others makes me realize that I should try using a record washer. I’ve had my eye on the Humming Guru and will probably buy one soon. So, there you go you’ve convinced me and I’m not happy about all the hassle that I’ll now need to put up with. But perhaps I’ll get better sound and I do have some older records that probably really need it. As for new records, why isn’t cleaning a new record part of the record company’s process? OK, standard records maybe it’s cost prohibitive. But if I buy a one step or UHQR, why doesn’t it show up immaculate (they sure look clean)? In my opinion any record that cost north of 100 bucks should show up having been ultrasonically cleaned by the record company. Don’t they want to show off their fabulous product at its best? I find myself to be of a similar mindset as Mazzy here. Skeptical but for the reasonable cost of the Humming Guru I’ll get one and give it a whirl. Then I’ll decide how many records I’ll use the machine on and how often. Good video and it’s a good discussion. Thank you!
@@peterrech2307 Except the Degritter until this latest iteration, used the dirty water that just cleaned your record as the rinse water. The newest model now has two tanks; one for cleaning, and one for rinse. This wasn't some unintentional oversight. My first comment on seeing the older one in action was 'what about the dirty rinse water?'. You can't have designed this machine and not considered that from the beginning.
You don't think they can damage these low frequency devices, a paper was written on damage on a similar material provinyl, under microscope shows damage to the Micron surface of the plastic if done for too long more than 20 minutes. you want a high frequency machine 80kHz +. I wouldn't use it more than 4 minutes on a low frequency device like one of these and others, and only the once and you should mark the record to make sure it it's only once ever done. I would never buy a record sonically cleaned you gonna find they will lose their value
I have a Humminguru and I do wash all my new purchases but here is my rule of thumb…..if it comes in a paper / non poly sleeve it gets the full 5 minute cycle. If it comes in a poly sleeve and looks relatively clean I give it the short 2 minute cycle. It works for me and my peace of mind,
Congratulations on an excellent video. I'm of similar vintage to you, having bought my first album in 1970. It was "Switched On Rock" by "The Moog Machine and yes, I still have it. Like you, all my vinyl albums are in pristine condition (including the covers) and whenever I have sold any of them, the buyers would usually ask if I had ever played them as they all looked brand new. It's comforting to know I'm not the only person with this affliction.
Very good overview Mazzy. But one correction. Regarding "the submarine guy". Neil Antin is a retired engineer, not a scientist. But more importantly, he doesn't take a position regarding how you clean. He is like you, an advocate for doing what works for you. His book, Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records, offers best practices for all the various methods of cleaning from sink cleaning to Ultrasonic. He offers the best researched information on chemicals, equipment and process for each method. So he isn't the surfactant guy, but much more, a source for best practices for whichever way you decide to clean. His book is free and highly recommended for anyone interested in digging into the nuts and bolts of record cleaning.
I recently got myself a Spin Clean and clean all my records old and new. After cleaned I don’t have issues with static. I recommend cleaning records but do what you want. What a fun hobby!
Thanks for the update video Mazzy. I'm a lot like you in that I haven't cleaned my records other than a few exceptions. And now I know I did that wrong using the sink tap water. I bought an ultrasonic cleaner about 4 or 5 months ago and some of that Tergicleen (however it's spelled) at the recommendation of a friend who's been using it. But then I started seeing all of the hoopla about not using it, and if you do, rinsing the LPs!!! So I started to worry and reconsider. I don't have as many LPs as you yet and not all of mine are original 1960s or 1970s pressings either. I try to keep everything clean and I use a microfiber brush to clean the surface of the LPs every time I put one on the turntable before playing it. But as I've mentioned to you before, being legally blind really influences what I might be able to see as to wind and if I need to clean an LP. But I do get a little concerned especially when I hear a loud pop or an LP gets hung up and starts repeating a certain area of the I know the turntable is set up properly and everything is adjusted perfectly so get an invisible piece of dust or paper fall into a groove? I'm tired of worrying about that kind of stuff. I made up my mind to make up my mind on what I'm going to do haha. A really grown tired of thinking about what am I not seeing once again. So I've kind of made up my mind that I'm going to go ahead and set up the ultrasonic cleaner and only use the cleaning solution in a very rare case or two along with a spray bottle of distilled water to clean off any residue. If the cleaning solution eats through the pin within 2 years or so, well I'll never get my money's worth out of it that's for sure. But even though the friend that had recommended it is not at all worried it's doing any damage, I don't have that same confidence and I need to do what I think is best. I'll be cleaning with just distilled water unless that doesn't work for me. But that's another part of my concern is whether or not it will remove that residue if I'm spraying distilled water on my vinyl trying to rinse it. It just seems like a never-ending question. It's always a back and forth on the topics and you can find somebody agreeing with you or disagreeing with you on every single last step of the process too. What bugs me more than not really knowing if I'll be hurting something is just not being able to see the detail of what could be causing that surface noise to start when I've been so careful. And I realize there will be things in the grooves that nobody can see with the naked eye whether they're blind or not. Anyhow, I have been watching a lot of what people say, on both sides of the fence too, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to do the same thing you described in your video. When I notice the noise, give the LP a clean with just distilled water. In a rare case or if I come across something that needs a better cleaning, use the solution but then spray the heck out of it and rinse it afterwards. One thing I still haven't heard is whether the solution actually helps clean the records better or if it has some other purpose? I think I'm overthinking it but I don't want to underthink it. I don't know if doing one cleaning with the cleaning solution would make it where I need to empty out my water tank, which is a 6 litre tank, or if it's going to be trouble if I don't? It's a never-ending game of questions and not finding exact answers I've determined. I'm going to enjoy what I have and see what happens when I just clean it with distilled water. If it makes a huge difference and things sound a lot better, I'll be happy. But if it still hasn't done what I want it to do, and if it's an LP I can replace easily or inexpensively, maybe, I'll try the Tergicleen then. One way or the other, I'll figure out what works best for me and my situation and take that route 👍 I've got so many record cleaning kits that people have given me for birthdays, Christmas, whatever the event was but I have never used them. I've heard horror stories from the past of people ruining a collection using the wrong type of commonly available cleaning supply or cleaning kit. And since finding a clear-cut, one answer closes the case post out there, I'll just figure it out as I go. I am curious if the friend that does use it, and I'm not going to try to spell it again but I'm talking about the cleaner, is going to have any problems with his vinyl in 10 or 20 years. But if it works for him, That's his Joyce and I'm not ready to take that risk yet. Anyhow, I'm glad you came back and updated your last video because that whole blow up that happened after it came along just as I was about to start doing some of my own records with the cleaning solution. It definitely put a pause on me doing anything as I learned some more about it. Just never enough for the exact answer I was looking for though haha. So thanks Mazzy and I think your reasoning makes the most sense to me. Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
Hey Mazzy, if the Chinese balloons bring HumminGurus, they are welcome to come to me in Germany😂. Of course, all the experts are right that there are better vinyl cleaners, but for completely other crazy prices. The important thing is that you are satisfied and not Mr. Fremer or the other experts. I changed my old Okki Nokki Record Cleaner against the HumminGuru and very satisfied. I'm only clean Records if they look dirty or sounds noisy. Often a brush cleaning is enough. I don't want to spend my life with Record cleaning. I prefer hearing Records and drink a good German Beer. Cheers🍺
Hello from Spokane Mazzy. I have always cleaned every record I purchase but I cleaned them by hand. My theory was always money not spent on $1000+ machines is money to buy more music. However, I recently scored a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine for $200. I couldn’t pass it up and man it has made my life easier. I love it…at $200. My biggest fear of the Humminguru is the longevity of a Chinese plastic machine. But they look to do a great job.
Nice follow-up video Mazzy. I still wash all new albums that show up in the house, and since these are primarily through the mail, it's not a burden. The Stones mono box took a full day of on/off a few albums at a time. FYI, in the notes section of my Discogs library, I record the date that I cleaned the album. That way it takes my memory out of the loop and it's a great reference. Cheers
Thumbs up! I do this as well. All notes is done in Discogs. Date of purchase, price, where I bought it, and when I clean it, and some notes of which tracks I need to check out / favourites / have to play to my friends etc. Discogs is so good to keep track of things. Always at hand.
I buy thrift store albums all the time. This weekend I bought a handful of Frank Sinatra LP's for a buck each. This morning I used my Spin Clean to get the dust and fingerprints off of them, but it was a lot of labor. Compared to their condition before I cleaned them, they look much better, but again it was a lot of work. I can certainly see how the HumminGuru would be a better way to go purely based on it's ease of use. Your final thought was the biggest takeaway: take care of your records. Thanks!
@Big Craig Great comment. But, even if you used a HummingGuru, I would suggest you pre-clean them like you do already. You shouldn't put very dirty thrift store albums in an ultrasonic cleaner. Best advise is to pre-clean them a little bit at least. I'd go for a microfiber cloth, 20% Isopropanol + 80% distilled water. Spray it over and wet clean them. I gently rub my (clean) fingers over the surface (works like the best cloth ever and you can feel the debris/dirt), then I wait 20-30 seconds, and use the microfiber cloth clockwise 2-3 rounds, and anti-clockwise 2-3 rounds. Repeat this two times. Then go for the other side. Records get really clean, and it fixes a lot of audible noise and sometimes stuck things that might have been in the groove for decades. I even had skips fixed this way. And we all remember the new Animals remixed album? 40% had faults they say. I managed to fix mine, the "noisy" b-side. This doesn't always work, but it is worth a try. I find the spin clean cumbersome, and I don't like devices where you have to exchange parts, e.g. brushes, it is just a money making machine for the sellers. Also, does the brushes clean themselves? Then you need that fluid that makes dirt sink to the bottom, and that fluid is not very cheap either. I'd go for simple manual wet-clean, and maybe invest in a machine in the future. I'm not a fan of having too many devices. Less is more is my mantra. And I'd go for Mazzis mantra. Take care of them by just a quick wipe with your brush, and dry-brush your stylus quickly. This was a great video! Keep it up.
Hi Mazzy I'm with you on several points. I'm about 600 cleans in on my HG cleaner and am amazed it what it can do for the price. I've used a friends Audio Desk and while it may be more automatic and a tad bit better it's 7 times the price. I do however clean everything including new and for really grimy used records I pick up I do clean manually first like I did before the HG and then run it thru. Have fun using yours, it's made me appreciate some older records I have way more and as you always say 'It's the Music"!
The HG is an amazing machine for the price point. I've cleaned about 800 records so farm I use straight distilled water only change the filters every 50 records cleaned and I really sleeve them in clean inners. Great video.
I use a PRO-JECT - VC-S2 ALU Record Cleaning Machine when cleaning myself. When I buy from the In Grove, I have Mike clean them. I have also sent several batches to Perfect Vinyl Forever, and love what they do. I have around 500 records some I bought as far back as 1976. My old records, I first cleaned with a Spin Clean and I was amazed the crud that came off them (I take care of my stuff). I think it is worth it to clean them but for my collection size, and my equipment the PRO-JECT makes sense.
My local vinyl shop has a Okki Nokki vacuum record cleaner. They kindly helped me clean a few used records and the sound difference was extraordinary. But as you say, cleaning machines can't fix bad audio quality that's ingrained on the vinyl for whatever reason. Thanks for this great video. Very helpful to hear opinions about other machines.
I picked up a HumminGuru last month and largely been fine WITHOUT Tergikleen, but some of my recent vinyl purchases are absolutely disgusting out of the sleeve. I use the surfactant first cycle on the really nasty ones and then a second cycle with only distilled water to wash off any remaining residue. Surface noise massively reduced or eliminated using this device; very happy with the results...tons of bang for the buck of an amateur hobbyist using the HumminGuru. Preserving the viny and my stylus!
This is really helpful! I am not an audiophile, but I am a DJ who has a vinyl collection over a 20-year period. I really don't want to spend a lot of time having to deep clean records that, truthfully, are going to get played maybe, in total, a few times. I'm very glad to have them, and very glad to have a collection, and yes I sometimes spend obscene amounts for them (and by the way, I'm with you on not cleaning the new ones from the get-go, unless it's noticeable). I'm fine with the 5-minute cleaning with the water to at least get the excess removed. I'm up for doing my own "100 records" test to see what happens, but I think your opinions are sound. I do understand the ones that really wish to keep their records in immaculate shape, and my hats off to them. Sometimes, "good enough" will do. Thanks much!
Thanks for the follow up. I was lucky enough to have access to record cleaners from the beginning. Catching up on your back catalog would be daunting. I still DO think nearly every record sounds better after a wet wash. Nice sporting the airpods Rudy Giuliani-style lol😂
Thanks, Mazzy! I agree... and I may just buy this machine; I've had my eye on it for awhile. I think it is right in my wheelhouse for what it can accomplish, the price point... Anyway, appreciate the insight! A Friend in Bellevue
I was one of the first persons to comment on the cleaning video about post rinsing the Tergikleen. I recently made a comment on a Tergikleen advertisement about it hazing 2 of my new records. I also told her about the videos and conversations regarding the use of surfactants. We had an interesting conversation.
Thanks for the update. I received my Humminguru on Friday and have already started the cleaning process. One 60 yo record showed the most improvement so far. Yes, I do agree on the Columbia 2 & 6 eye... most of them sound much better than they look. Not sure how they made such durable vinyl back then.😊
Great video Mazzy, thanks! I'm looking at the Humminguru. I've always just used micr-fibre brush and if necessary, a vinyl spray and lint-free cloth if the record is really dirty for whatever reason. Keep the videos coming...
Saw earlier in my feed and remember saying out loud...."Yet another cleaning records video from Mazzy"....thinking how long is going to squeeze water out of this rock!?!?!? Just finished watching and can honestly say was thoroughly entertained for 24 minutes....nice job....your channel continues to be the most interesting on the VC....keep up the great work👍
Yeah these aren’t for everyone, but I’ve been asked by a lot of people to post an update of this new record cleaning journey and it’s something I wanted to do. So that’s all folks. At least for now 🤠
Glad you like the Humminguru (and - kind of - recommed it). Mine is arriving tomorrow and will supplement or replace my manual DiscOstat (similar to a Spinclean). Looking forward to see/hear what it can do (I also buy 2nd hand LPs).
@@lokitio I'll be happy to share my thoughts and experiences when I start to use the HumminGuru. Will be in a couple of weeks I think (I'll probably make a video on my channel).
Mazzy, well thought out summary. I made my own ultrasonic cleaner for about $150. about 6 yrs. ago. Very labor intensive. Used Tergikleen in the tank to clean, then rinsed them off using a 2 gallon pump sprayer filled with Distilled water over my bathtub while they slowly spun on a cordless drill. Sped the drill up and spun them dry! Worked beautifully and came out spotlessly clean. I saved my pennies and got a Degritter, which I absolutely love. I also use Tergikleen for the wash. I wash a number of records on the medium cycle, then swap out the tank with another filled with just distilled water and run them thru the short cycle. There is NO residue or issue with Tergikleen. The people who say "Don't use any surfactants, just water" remind me of the purists who tell you not to use any tone controls on your amp/receiver. Do you wash your self, or your clothes with just water? (I hope not...LOL!) No. It doesn't do a satisfactory job of cleaning by itself. If Tergikleen is good enough for the Library of Congress it sure as hell is good enough for me. After cleaning several thousand records- LPs and 45s, I can tell you without a doubt that cleaning with Tergikleen provides much better results than using only distilled water.
An ultrasonic machine do not need any surfactants, because the kHz it uses splits up the water molecule which works as a surfactant itself. Only distilled water is needed. No graphs is needed to prove this.
Hi Mazzy, entertaining and informative video. Absolutely correct Mazzy, taking care of the discs is the best option. And avoid using the Discwasher brush clones because they just push the dirt deep into the groove where it sets, and the stylus can't get it out.
My take on it is this: I use tergiclean and am happy with it. I clean all my records when I get them in a spin clean with a knock off version used as a rinse tank. Its amazing what it does to old dirty records. Seems to get rid of static too.
Hi Mazzy, you are the only youtuber I know who manages to talk about music, record cleaning methods and artists of photography in the same video - managing not to bore the viewers. I love you (metaphorically)!
Then I guess I succeeded this time. It has to always come back to the music. Occasionally I enjoy watching gear videos and of course anything that relates to art ✌🏼
@@mazzysmusic Hi again, Norman, maybe it will seem redundant to you, but I would like to specify that my previous message was a sincere appreciation of your way of talking about music and everything that surrounds it. 🤝
Thank you for your very entertaining content on your CZcams channel. I was on the fence every sense they had the Kick Start campaign, But I held off. Have been watching a lot of other peoples youtube videos on the HumminGuru. You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru. Because I do respect your non bias opinion on the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru. So, I finally ordered one and I am very pleased with the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru. It makes a great improvement on the sound with the pops and clicks. within a reason. But, it can't fixed damaged records. I am using the GrooveWasher Ultrasonic Record Wash concentrate. It takes just one drop in the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru tray or 8-10 drops per gallon. Thank you so much, Mazzy Michael
Cheers from Mumbai! Thanks for making this video. Very nice video with thoughful statements. The more one looks at videos the more confusing it gets. What is needed is to put things in perspective which is exactly what your video does. Vinyls were manufactured for listening and enjoying music and one must do (within one's means) what it takes to improve it without over-doing it. The final punch line - take care of vinyls. Something simular is the case with books and printing. The quality of printed books is going down and so I take care of my collection of books as well. Take care of ANYTHING you value be it vinyl record or books or antique clocks.
One thing I've always found crazy is that after a certain price bracket, turntables just don't have dust covers. Why bitch about how people are cleaning their records when you've spent $10,000 on a turntable without a fucking dust cover.
Dust covers, especially when left open picks up sound waves, and your turntables becomes a turntable-satellite that picks up everything. Think about that one!
Just finished cleaning all 1200 of my records using spin clean first and then the humminguru. Put them in anti static innersleeves after cleaning. I also donated any record that wasnt strong VG or better to local thrift store. Took me about 6 months to finish. Very good feeling knowing all my records have been thoroughly cleaned. That being said i couldnt even imagine trying to clean 7500 records
I agree, just a couple of good brushes and a zero stat do me just fine-I have a few older tag sale items and I’m putting those aside for a scrub, but I’m not hopeful
I started collecting LPs in the 60s and 70s. I've used the Spin Clean and the Nitty Gritty vacuum cleaner for many years. I also have the mono Sgt Pepper album. I just purchased the Humminguru and I'm hoping I can get a better sonic boost and clean up the noise floor. Good video Massy. Wish me luck in my continuing adventure. Long Live Vinyl!
Good advice, Mazzy! Your original video/demo of the HumminGuru was a catalyst for me to buy one of those devices (which I had been contemplating). I've now cleaned about 90 albums using it, and I have been very satisfied with the results. I've been targeting cleaning older LPs in my collection and anything secondhand I've acquired lately. I am using some surfactant because I'm convinced that it assists in more evenly spreading the water layer over the record. It beats using any kind of soap which comes with some record cleaning systems. I had cleaned all of my albums using the standard Spin Clean (2000+ collection), but that is more limited in how it can really reduce surface noise compared to the HumminGuru (of course, it's a lot cheaper, too). Anyway, I hope the HumminGuru can last a while. Not planning to spend thousands of dollars on a record cleaner.
AGREED! You can literally see how much more surface is consistently covered with a surfactant during an initial wash cycle. My understand it helps cut the water to really get inside grooves.
@@false_binary I use isopropanol for this. It is almost 98% alcohol, and it really gets dirt loose and it wipes all the sh#t off. I've seen Ultrasonic machines that can't really remove fingerprints etc. but a manual wet-clean can. Now, people claim that isopropanol may destroy your vinyl. Please, prove it! If there was any truth in it, it wouldn't be stored in a PVC plastic bottle in the first place, plus it vaporises and leaves no trace behind (just read the specs). This stuff is used to clean electronics such as print-boards as well.
Yes, have been a Club DJ in the early to mid 80's. Played all records wet - because of smoke drinks dust ... after the change to CD ... I received a bunch of my favorite ones and cleaned it back than with soft hand warm water and some drops of dish cleaner to reduce the tension of the water. And dried it smoothly with a really soft terry towel. And since 1985 they are in great shape. No need for a washing. Just using a carbon fiber brush. That's it. Mazzy, to my mind you are 100% right!
Hi Mazzy I recently bought a Humminguru I am also using a Groovewasher G Sonic Detergent/ Surfactant I wrote to them and they told me it is safe to use on both Machine and Vinyl as it is diluted so much but does help in getting the water into the grooves and no I don’t rinse afterwards either.
Insightful as always, thank you. A while back Fremer recommended TM -8, a solution invented by Toy Shigekawa: engineer, rocket scientist, and avid audiophile. I could only find it from an audio shop in Pasadena. With that said, I love it. I use a Record Doctor with the solution and that's all.
Toy Shigekawa once called me directly 30+ years ago when I purchased the Torumat turntable mat & record weight. It improved my AR table at the time. He was one of the nicest men I ever spoke with!
I'm with ya.. I typically don't ultrasonic clean records, new or old, unless they really need it. Just as long as they're not riddled with tics & pops, etc, or obviously need a deep cleaning.
The only thing I think is by wet washing your LP's, it gets rid of the static charge that's synonymous with records, so the record should have less surface noise. I use distilled water with one drop of eco friendly washing up liquid, for the first wash, then two washes with just distilled water, it seems to work fine for me, there's no chemicals, great video mazzy, really well explained 👍
Hi Mazzy I have used the Disco Anti-stat machine for around 40 years or so. This was recommended to me by my local Hi-fi store in Aberdeen Scotland. It was very cheap and cost around £40.00. The rack could only hold 20 discs so I ended up buying another two machines and I have bought several litres of fluid over the years. Cleaning was important for me as I had a business selling jazz vinyl at jazz concerts and by mail order. Some of the rare Blue Notes etc. really improved after cleaning and my customers were usually pleased. One negative was that occasionaly it left a kind of sheen on the surface but with care I managed to avoid this. When I first started collecting in the late 60's a local record shop offered a record cleaning service at around 2/6, i. e. 12.5 pence. They always put the disc into a brand new inner sleeve after cleaning. I try to do this if possible and obviously I keep the original inner sleeve. This machine was called the Monks machine and the fluid was hoovered up after washing. Best wishes Bill Christie.
Hey Massy! Nice Toaster!! [sic] That's an important distinction: between 'cleaning records' and 'washing' records. Saying "I never cleaned a record" sounds like you never brushed it with an anti-static brush, or one of those velvet rolling pads. I'm glad you've clarified that your method was to use an anti-static brush. I got turned on to a spinning velvet circular pad, use with isopropyl and distilled water in the disco clubs in the late 1970s. Fifty years later, I'm a little more sophisticated. And some of those much loved/much played albums from the 70s and 80s are benefiting greatly from my new cleaning method. I am successfully restoring LPs that used to sound not very good due too much use and less than effective cleaning procedures. I don't use static brushes. I rub hard with a clean micro fibre rag with the LP securely flat on a round silicone pad from a kitchen store. The 'rub hard approach' is a trick I learned in the 1990s at a used record store in Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island. The record is wet with the water-isopropyl-surfactant solution. The first cloth takes all dust off in one pass. Then the second cloth rubs the liquid out. Basically ending up with a dry record. Here is the thing... it rubs the pops and static too. If there is real muck on the surface I don't hesitate to attack it with vinegar, or warm water, dishwashing liquid, and the ends of my fingers, under the kitchen tap. That cleans them! After they are dry, I'll play them. If there is static, I give them the 'heavy-rub' treatment. A couple of days ago I brought home a copy of Steve Miller Band's "Brave New World" (with Paul Ramone on two tracks-aka McCartney). The store owner told me that he cleans his records diligently with a machine. The record sounded clean. Barely a pop or static snap. But... not ANY better than the results I get manually with elbow grease. Yes, it may take two or three cleanings to get it to sound 'perfectly' quiet. But so far... so good. And, no, I'm not doing 700 records in one weekend. I just go along as I play. It means taking 3 - 5 to minutes to clean the record. But it's worth it. For LPs on 'rotation', they get cleaned four or five days in a row and come out sounding absolutely silent. I guess, like Massy, I always took care of my records. However, my methods for cleaning have advanced, and are now producing consistent and consistently results better than I would get before. Last word? I totally agree: clean an LP when you hear the noise. The issue for me was never that. Rather, it was: Sure, clean ill the record, but how? With what? I'm getting closer to what I am hoping will turn out to be a fool proof method. It's hand-based because of the number of records in my collection (700) and because, even if I spend 3 - 5 minutes cleaning before I play, it doesn't add up to much in any given week.
As someone who generally doesn't clean his records , occasionally I use a Pro-Ject to clean dust etc and have had some great results. Totally agree with the sentiment that you should do what you want and use common sense (not so common). I have records I have had for 40+ years that sound great and theyve never been cleaned...... Doesn't it make your "teeth ache" when people start getting too precious about these things. I'm going to see if I can get one of these in the UK ---- great video as always
I loved the first video, a bunch of friends having fun and a few drinks. Oh and the random guy with dirty records. I’ve always used a discwasher and now use distilled water with a few drops of isopropyl alcohol in it.
I think my issue is that I only buy second hand in various states. When first got into it i'd use surgical spirit. This worked for 'cleaner' records I bought, but the ones with 40 years of gunk on them, it just made them 'sticky'. So, waiting for a manual record cleaner to arrive. It's got a good rep, so hopefully it will improve playability. Some of the records bought for $2 are actually fairly rare and playable, but they could sound better.
Yes cleaning helps. I have a kirmuss machine. It’s not perfect and requires a bit more mechanical work but seems to work great on my noisiest disks. I can try that DSOTM for you. Not sure if it will help but the kirmuss has a feedback to the process to see if you actually Got it clean. Good one Mazzy
Great Vid MAZZY.. David here, checking in from Menlo Park! (dig all the SF & GD related content on your channel, btw...) I see you are selling some records... I have needed Blood on the Tracks forever. LMK if we can do a deal on that one I see in your stacks. Peace&Love
Great video. I started cleaning my records in alphabetical order and listened to them one by one - sometimes only one side and sometimes entire albums. Granted I only have about 1000 and I got through D and all my top favorite artists.
@@Benji306 I have a blend of new, used and great shape and used and so-so shape. The most improvements you hear is the ones that are in not so great shape - I t reduced the surface noise quite a bit. and then next surprisingly are the new records: the ones with the occasional pops and clicks and a lot of them are because there is some dust and dirt in the grooves that the humminguru can clean but a regular brush won't catch. Basically a new noise record turns into a rather quiet record. The good used ones are the ones where I noticed the least improvement. I found two really beat up dark side of the moon early copies last summer (one was a Canadian first press) - I could not listen to them but after two thorough cleanings they turned into decent listenable records. Hope this makes sense ;-) and thanks for asking
@@Benji306 I don't collect CDs, I like the big physical media. However for travel CDs are the next best thing when you like physical. My daughter has her favorite artists on vinyl and cd and it's a cool thing.
@@ptownmusicroom580 I grew up buying vinyl but by late 80's switched over CD's. It was a hard switch but had no choice at the time really. That is what I amassed my collection with over a 30 year period. I can't go back now and replace the CD's with vinyl. It's to expensive and would take me years to replace them. I feel like I'm missing something as a result by not having vinyl. However much of the CD's I do have are of higher quality, (SHM, SACD HQ) so they do sound decent. When I see vinyl vid's I just grin and bear it now.
Great vid Mazzy. Agree with what you say. We all have our own rituals about how we clean, use and enjoy our record collections…. Some of these are changed over time, often informed by listening to our peers, others through personal preference and situation. But either way if it works for you… fair enough.. Pity that if some do not agree with your personal rituals it may invoke a belligerent response from some of those who’s views differ… disappointingly even from those who invoke current ‘scientific’ leanings. Ah well, such is the way of the world. Think I might be investing in a ‘Hummdinger’ soon… 😂
Perfectly sensible and perfectly logical. Don't sweat the small stuff and start enjoying the records put out by these talented souls. Life's too short! 🍻
This is why like you channel to the point and honest the humminguru is in my budget those others Degritter and KLaudio is way out my budget. It kills me when everyone is a expert you have to do what works for you great thoughts after 100 Mazzy the humminguru is one I’m going to get take care.
Aloha Mazza, thank you for your follow-up review. I myself used that cleaner I put 10 drops in a gallon of distilled water 💧. In the pass few months I've been hearing about the humming guru. Hopefully I order one in March. I've seen it on Amazon but it was $499.00 Shipping included, & it comes w/ 7 & 10 inch adapters. Will I save more buying directly?. Thanks again Mazza. Looking forward to watching your next video. Mahalo Ed
How many records one has is certainly a valid consideration. I decided to clean all of mine with two six liter US tanks, 2/3 of the records bought used, some back in the 70s, but I only have about 300. It still took about a year of evenings where there was nothing better to do. Cleaning ones that seem like they can be improved is probably a good plan.
Great video Mazzy. To everyone. An ultrasonic device do not need surfactant, only distilled water. Here is why. The kHz used splits up the water molecules, H2O to H+OH, and that works as a surfactant itself (this is the bubbles you see that cleans the grooves). It works as a "free" surfactant without any bi-effects. This is also why the record's label won't be spilled with water as well as other surfactants will do. The record's is easy to dry without any residue as nothing were applied in the first place. For really dirty records, I'd do a pre-clean before using the ultrasonic machine. Follow Mazzy's mantra and take care of your collection without too much buzz.
Thanks. And of course every other person has a different take on this. Scientist engineers and archivists (Smithsonian , etc) advise to use a surfactant. Many audio gear and record reviewers say use just the distilled water. I guess we just do was works for each of us and what we feel comfortable to use 🤠 Appreciate the comment
@@mazzysmusic There is no need to prove the science behind and "take on this" explaining how ultrasonic works. This is what it does. H2O to H+OH. The kHz used determines the resolution of this. Besides this, of course, people may do what they want. They can use a sandpaper if they want. Everyone has a different take on it 😎
@@mazzysmusic As explained above, you do NOT need a surfactant. Why do you ignore how ultrasonics work? Does it go over your head? The ultrasonics water molecule splitting up is not anything that is subjective for each and one of us. It works the same. These people you mention can't really be scientists, if they do not know that H2O to H+OH isn't in their knowledge a surfactant. How ignorant. "Many audio gear and record reviewers say use just the distilled water." They have understood the basic knowledge of ultrasonic. Now, how you clean your records otherwise, go head, use a sandpaper if you will. No one stops you. If you, Norman, wants to double up with surfactants, go ahead. Also, the Earth is round for some, or to be precise, elliptical, and for some, dead flat.
I looked at ultrasonic cleaners, the Degritter but having to purchase the adapters for 7” 10” records was not appealing. I approached Loricraft Audio to make enquiries. The deal breaker was the company threw in £168 of accessories i. e. The soft dust cover and the 7” 10” and 12” cleaning brushes, goat hair brush etc as a special offer. So my mind was made, and I decided to purchase the Loricraft PRC6i. Now l don’t play a record on our system unless cleaned. A definite game changer imo.
I think a pre-wash then a main-wash (using the Manufacturers recommended cleaning fluid) and rinse (with pure distilled water) with either a Loricraft or a Keith Monks precise vacuum RCM (to get the surface grime off the record) vacuum drying between each of these three cleaning cycles then followed by the Degritter MK1 or MK2 (giving the 120kHz Ultrasonic cleaning direct to the sides of the record to right inside the grooves) with a main wash using the Manufacturers supplied cleaning fluid followed by a rinse cycle with distilled water and then drying in the Degritter is the way to go to get nice clean records ! If you can afford it, also using the KLaudio LP-200 or LP-200T (to give the 40kHz ultrasonic cleaning direct to the sides of the record) after the Loricraft or Keith Monks RCM and before the Degritter MK1 or MK2 with just distilled water would be ideal !
Reasonable position, clearly stated. I understand that audiophiles seek audio perfection but I'm more on the side of Tom Waits who said (& sorry I can't find the quote) that the best way to judge a song is by how it sounds through ratty car speakers.
Thanks for posting this follow up Mazzy. If I can summarise, in your experience the humminguru can deliver a discernibly positive and audible improvement on records that are especially dirty or have audible flaws except in cases where those flaws relate to physical damage? I wonder if you’d started with a manual device like the knosti disco anti-stat, the spin clean or the spin care, would you have noticed a different or slightly worse benefit? And would you have stopped there? To your point of not seeing the value of an $11,000 cleaning system perhaps most of the benefit of cleaning is achieved by any type of cleaning. Research done by Paul Rigby, Dave Denyer et al., the sweet spot seems to be anti-static plus a little isopropyl and ilfotol… but the key for anyone is to do exactly what you’ve done and find out what works for you and what delivers an audible result that satisfies you. Just as an aside, the automated audio transcript has decided that the right solution to use is distilled water and something called ‘Turkey clean’. I’m almost certain this isn’t the AI having a laugh at our expense.
A good turkey baster is the next evolution in record cleaning management. Thank you for your comments and help and support over the past several weeks ✌🏼
I tend to agree with you. I buy new and second-hand vinyl. With new vinyl, I ALWAYS give them a wipe with anti static spray. If the album plays well, then I don't bother to clean it further. If the record is noisy/crackley, then I will give it a deep clean along with my second-hand albums.
Norman, your in more of a unique position. You’ve been buying new for 50 years straight. Most people like me either paused, or only started after the vinyl era. I’m making up for lost time. I mostly buy used at flea markets, thrift shops, antique shops, record stores, and record shows. Ultrasonic and other cleaning methods are were meant for. As a kid, I was very careful with my records. I always used a Disc Washer brush, and an anti static brush. Those childhood records I wouldn’t bother using a cleaner on it. I’d just do as I did as a kid. All my newer acquisitions will go thru various cleaning methods to get to a reasonable cleanliness. After which, Ill follow up with what I did as a kid. My childhood records look beautiful. I can’t say the same thing about my childhood toys and books
I say the same thing. Other than a discwasher we never cleaned them. I recently jumped on the band wagon , it does make a difference. I’m happy I purchased it’s become a full blown hobby. Have fun is the most important thing.
Mazzy do you have a mono switch on your amp? If not that may explain some of the leftover surface noise on that sgt pepper. Stereo needle picks up the empty channel and just picks up noise. Thanks for the cool video.
I've never been much of a record cleaner myself. Back in the golden years, records were always pristine out of the cover. If it crackled it was a bad pressing and I took it back. Generally, I just gave it a wipe over now and again with an anti-static cloth. These days with record companies struggling to keep up with production, quality control is out of the window in favour of volume. Sometimes a new record is covered in so much paper residue it's almost as bad as confetti! I now have no choice but to thoroughly clean any new record I purchase.
Thanks for the info. I shop at In-Groove and Mike is always preaching using just distilled water. I’m glad to listen to another opinion and wouldn’t be against using a surfactant as an experiment on my problem records. Did you say you use 8-10 drops per gallon?
I'm poor, so I just use microfiber clothes and Big Fudge record cleaner. Works great, no residue, and will do until I can afford a machine. Thanks for the vid!
Hey Norman! Can you do a John Cale ranking? There's a brand new album out by this veteran and his catalouge is so deep that I'm probalby not the only one who needs a bit direction. Cheers.
I am like you Mazzy. I have been collecting records for 49 years and I almost never clean them. The only exception is if I buy a used record that plays very poorly with a lot of surface noise. I keep my records pristine and do not allow them to get dirty in the first place. The only way to clean a record safely and properly is to use a machine that also drys the record by sucking off all the fluid otherwise you could be making matters worse. Such machines usually cost a lot of money and do not make sense for most people. You should not need to clean new records. If you buy a new record and it plays with a lot of surface noise then you should return it! New records should be sold in playable condition - you should not need to clean them on a machine costing thousands of dollars to make them sound acceptable. I buy most of my records new. If I was buying many used records then that would be the only scenario in which it would make sense for me to buy an expensive cleaning machine. Many people "clean" their record in inappropriate ways which causes irreparable damage to their precious vinyl.
Welcome aboard! It doesn't matter how clean your records are, they arrive from the record plant with mold release and other contaminants that need to be removed - IF you want the best sound possible. We recently upgraded our cleaning protocol and equipment from a Vinyl Styl spin clean with chemical wash/rinse to adding a 2nd stage ultrasonic clean cycle of 5 minutes in distilled water with a drop of surfactant. And wow the 2 stage records sounded better, noticeably better. We tried just an ultrasonic cycle Nada, even 10 minutes Nada. What we found (as others have before us) is records need to be both chemically cleaned and ultrasonically cleaned. On a highly resolving system you can immediately hear the difference. And the proof is in the 2 tanks, you can clearly see what each cleaning process removes. Do you need to spend huge dollars? No, years ago I bought the Vinyl Styl spin clean and it's still going strong, all I do is replace the goat hair brushes every 6 months and I love the O ring gasket on the record clamp, it's the perfect manual budget spin type cleaner. For our ultrasonic cleaner we bought the better quality unit on Amazon, it has a very nicely made aluminum tank mount system that works perfectly. It's $100 more than the cheaper model but worth every dollar we paid and more. Chemical cleaning solution 75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl alcohol @99%, Fuji film surfactant and a couple drops of dish soap. And Bob's Your Uncle!
Here in France, the prices of new vinyl records can sometimes be ridiculous. It may also be the case for records you can find in antique shops, garage sales and thrift stores. Semi-professional sellers surf on the vinyl wave and sell totally uninteresting and badly damaged records for ridiculous prices. Still, I buy nearly all my vinyls used and have no choice but to clean them if I want to have a rewarding listening experience. Personally, I use the manual german Knosti system (50-70 euros/dollars) with a cleaning solution made of diluted isopropanol + surfactant. Ant it works fine.
Totalement d'accord avec toi sur le prix des vinyles même d'occasion ils commencent vraiment à être ridicule... J'ai une petite question tu utilise un mélange avec du surfactant mais tu utilise quoi? A chaque fois que je vois une recommandation sur un produit il est trouvable uniquement en importation et a des prix exorbitant (30€ le produit + 30€ de livraison) ou alors pas en stock...
@@Frozen09 Hello, j'ai acheté le surfactant chez Amazon (Tetenal Mirasol 2000), un produit utilisé pour éviter les traces de séchage sur les films photos. Il était recommandé par quelqu'un sur CZcams qui fabrique lui-même son liquide de lavage pour les vinyles (on trouve la recette un peu partout). C'est vrai que c'est pas donné, surtout qu'on en utilise très peu. J'ai acheté aussi l'isopropanol chez Amazon. Voilà
Hi Mazzy - Great video! Bottom line is do whatever works for you. You mentioned selling some records, are you going to do a youtube auction like Patrick does? Cheers! Brian
Good balance on the subject. I’m using an ultrasonic with Tergikleen. I use 20 drops to a gallon, 34 degrees Celsius 93F, 6 revolutions (15 minutes), rinse 2 records with 1 gallon distilled water, dry with the softest microfiber from the rag company. They come out like new and after about 40 records you can see all the grime at the bottom of the ultrasonic machine. How do you purchase the records you might sell? Thank You
I started cleaning 25 years ago. All the baby boomers were dumping their vinyl and I was in heaven. I use a toothbrush that has been bent to a special angle using a candle flame. Its a four step process that takes less than ten minutes to do both sides. One example: I bought a MFSL copy of Ziggy Stardust. It looked very nice, close to perfect, but played VG+ with a lot of surface noise. After cleaning it sounded close to NM and brought a good deal more money on Ebay. 400.00 machine vs free toothbrush. 400.00 will buy a lot of vinyl. Toothbrush breaks ya just get a new toothbrush. And it doesn't use electricity or make noise. The experts can say that the bristles cant get down in the grooves, there to big, and it wont work, but it does. It works very very well indeed.
Some new records are absolutely covered in grime that's actually feelable and not just paper fragments, so they get a clean before playing as the stylus get's totally clogged up really quickly. The rest is always on an as required basis - so if it sounds ok I leave it
Surely the best practice is to clean an album before you play ? That way you don’t spend hours and hours just cleaning your collection for the sake of cleaning 🧼 Keep up the great vids Mazzy for the masses 🎶
Mazzy , thanks again for a great video. Just want to be sure I am clear on the process you have adopted. Do you do one pass of the record with "Mazzy's mix" ( with Turgital) and then a second pass with straight distilled water ?
I almost always now start with distilled water only and leave it at that … unless the record looks particularly dirty or I know there is a major sound issue. Then I’ll start w the mix and then do a clean wash afterwards. I imagine this may vary occasionally ✌🏼
@@mazzysmusic Thanks much. BTW I agree with your approach and advice. i.e take care of your records and clean only when you have to. I plan to order the Humminguru soon.
This is the approach to take. Don't stress out on cleaning what does not need cleanoing. A brush to remove staticy dust pre play is so wise. I too have LPs owned from new that have lasted 50 + years with little more than a light dusting and still sound great. I see the HumminGuru as the economy car of ultrasonic cleaners. It will get you there, and clean without surfactants like tergitol or the prepackaged turgikleen. Tergitol is a type of soap really. Just a cleaner that has been found to leave no harmful residue. I have cleaned my collection with Tergitol , and a AquaFina water rinse, on a VPI vacuum machine and it seems to have done no harm. Its clear to me that ultrasonic like in the humminguru is harmless and effective. When a record , new or old (but mostly used and misused), sounds noisy, give it a wash . Otherwise dust it with a record brush and that's all you need. Signed , A 68 year old lifelong record enjoyer in Toronto. Now where's my hat.
I’ve been using a VPI 16.5 machine for 6 years. It has served me well. It would be nice to have an ultrasonic machine. However, I can’t justify that cost. My records are in great condition thus not really needing one. Maybe one day.
MAZZY or anyone else, can you tell me the brush “Mark Edison, Mark 4” being described at 6:13. I’ve searched but can’t seem to find it. Just looking for a good brush 🤷♂️
Sure I clean my vinyl (new & old) simple wipe down. I'm fascinated that Mike from the In Groove charges an extra $8 to open your new vinyl that you order from him to clean it before shipping. Dam, vinyl has gotten so expensive I just think that is crazy (overkill).
When I bought a Spin Clean two years ago and started cleaning my records, within five records the water was black with dirt and there's no way removing that was a bad thing. I took off decades of dirt. Even if I have a pristine vinyl, dust and dirt can still attach between sleeve and TT. I bought a VPI and easily justified it by thinking a buck to clean every record is a lot of bucks and the VPI is a good deal. If I want to sell records off, which I do, the buyer deserves a clean record. The main thing is I heard the difference. An it's a zen vibe that I really enjoy.
The KLAUDIO machine costs $6499.
Yes, but with all the shown extra stuff, it is way over 10k.
With the Auto-record Changer and silencing cabinet, which Michael 45 uses, the KLAudio runs out to 10k+. In my own experience and opinion, I feel the Degritter is the best ultrasonic unit out there only because it uses 120khzas its frequency which gets deeper into the groove than the 35/40khz units. pricing is in favor of the Humminguru.
Michael Fremer I love you, I hate you. I’ve NEVER cleaned my records other than the discwasher brush before use. I also use the stylus brush on every side. But watching your videos and others makes me realize that I should try using a record washer. I’ve had my eye on the Humming Guru and will probably buy one soon. So, there you go you’ve convinced me and I’m not happy about all the hassle that I’ll now need to put up with. But perhaps I’ll get better sound and I do have some older records that probably really need it.
As for new records, why isn’t cleaning a new record part of the record company’s process? OK, standard records maybe it’s cost prohibitive. But if I buy a one step or UHQR, why doesn’t it show up immaculate (they sure look clean)? In my opinion any record that cost north of 100 bucks should show up having been ultrasonically cleaned by the record company. Don’t they want to show off their fabulous product at its best?
I find myself to be of a similar mindset as Mazzy here. Skeptical but for the reasonable cost of the Humming Guru I’ll get one and give it a whirl. Then I’ll decide how many records I’ll use the machine on and how often. Good video and it’s a good discussion. Thank you!
@@peterrech2307 Except the Degritter until this latest iteration, used the dirty water that just cleaned your record as the rinse water. The newest model now has two tanks; one for cleaning, and one for rinse. This wasn't some unintentional oversight. My first comment on seeing the older one in action was 'what about the dirty rinse water?'. You can't have designed this machine and not considered that from the beginning.
You don't think they can damage these low frequency devices, a paper was written on damage on a similar material provinyl, under microscope shows damage to the Micron surface of the plastic if done for too long more than 20 minutes. you want a high frequency machine 80kHz +. I wouldn't use it more than 4 minutes on a low frequency device like one of these and others, and only the once and you should mark the record to make sure it it's only once ever done. I would never buy a record sonically cleaned you gonna find they will lose their value
love your videos. Always getting new info which is great!
I have a Humminguru and I do wash all my new purchases but here is my rule of thumb…..if it comes in a paper / non poly sleeve it gets the full 5 minute cycle. If it comes in a poly sleeve and looks relatively clean I give it the short 2 minute cycle.
It works for me and my peace of mind,
Congratulations on an excellent video. I'm of similar vintage to you, having bought my first album in 1970. It was "Switched On Rock" by "The Moog Machine and yes, I still have it. Like you, all my vinyl albums are in pristine condition (including the covers) and whenever I have sold any of them, the buyers would usually ask if I had ever played them as they all looked brand new. It's comforting to know I'm not the only person with this affliction.
Very good overview Mazzy. But one correction. Regarding "the submarine guy". Neil Antin is a retired engineer, not a scientist. But more importantly, he doesn't take a position regarding how you clean. He is like you, an advocate for doing what works for you. His book, Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records, offers best practices for all the various methods of cleaning from sink cleaning to Ultrasonic. He offers the best researched information on chemicals, equipment and process for each method. So he isn't the surfactant guy, but much more, a source for best practices for whichever way you decide to clean. His book is free and highly recommended for anyone interested in digging into the nuts and bolts of record cleaning.
Thanks for this well written reply. Highly appreciated. Where do we find his free book?
I recently got myself a Spin Clean and clean all my records old and new. After cleaned I don’t have issues with static. I recommend cleaning records but do what you want. What a fun hobby!
Thanks for the update video Mazzy. I'm a lot like you in that I haven't cleaned my records other than a few exceptions. And now I know I did that wrong using the sink tap water.
I bought an ultrasonic cleaner about 4 or 5 months ago and some of that Tergicleen (however it's spelled) at the recommendation of a friend who's been using it. But then I started seeing all of the hoopla about not using it, and if you do, rinsing the LPs!!! So I started to worry and reconsider.
I don't have as many LPs as you yet and not all of mine are original 1960s or 1970s pressings either. I try to keep everything clean and I use a microfiber brush to clean the surface of the LPs every time I put one on the turntable before playing it. But as I've mentioned to you before, being legally blind really influences what I might be able to see as to wind and if I need to clean an LP. But I do get a little concerned especially when I hear a loud pop or an LP gets hung up and starts repeating a certain area of the I know the turntable is set up properly and everything is adjusted perfectly so get an invisible piece of dust or paper fall into a groove? I'm tired of worrying about that kind of stuff. I made up my mind to make up my mind on what I'm going to do haha.
A really grown tired of thinking about what am I not seeing once again. So I've kind of made up my mind that I'm going to go ahead and set up the ultrasonic cleaner and only use the cleaning solution in a very rare case or two along with a spray bottle of distilled water to clean off any residue. If the cleaning solution eats through the pin within 2 years or so, well I'll never get my money's worth out of it that's for sure. But even though the friend that had recommended it is not at all worried it's doing any damage, I don't have that same confidence and I need to do what I think is best. I'll be cleaning with just distilled water unless that doesn't work for me. But that's another part of my concern is whether or not it will remove that residue if I'm spraying distilled water on my vinyl trying to rinse it. It just seems like a never-ending question. It's always a back and forth on the topics and you can find somebody agreeing with you or disagreeing with you on every single last step of the process too. What bugs me more than not really knowing if I'll be hurting something is just not being able to see the detail of what could be causing that surface noise to start when I've been so careful. And I realize there will be things in the grooves that nobody can see with the naked eye whether they're blind or not.
Anyhow, I have been watching a lot of what people say, on both sides of the fence too, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to do the same thing you described in your video. When I notice the noise, give the LP a clean with just distilled water. In a rare case or if I come across something that needs a better cleaning, use the solution but then spray the heck out of it and rinse it afterwards.
One thing I still haven't heard is whether the solution actually helps clean the records better or if it has some other purpose? I think I'm overthinking it but I don't want to underthink it. I don't know if doing one cleaning with the cleaning solution would make it where I need to empty out my water tank, which is a 6 litre tank, or if it's going to be trouble if I don't? It's a never-ending game of questions and not finding exact answers I've determined. I'm going to enjoy what I have and see what happens when I just clean it with distilled water. If it makes a huge difference and things sound a lot better, I'll be happy. But if it still hasn't done what I want it to do, and if it's an LP I can replace easily or inexpensively, maybe, I'll try the Tergicleen then. One way or the other, I'll figure out what works best for me and my situation and take that route 👍 I've got so many record cleaning kits that people have given me for birthdays, Christmas, whatever the event was but I have never used them. I've heard horror stories from the past of people ruining a collection using the wrong type of commonly available cleaning supply or cleaning kit. And since finding a clear-cut, one answer closes the case post out there, I'll just figure it out as I go. I am curious if the friend that does use it, and I'm not going to try to spell it again but I'm talking about the cleaner, is going to have any problems with his vinyl in 10 or 20 years. But if it works for him, That's his Joyce and I'm not ready to take that risk yet.
Anyhow, I'm glad you came back and updated your last video because that whole blow up that happened after it came along just as I was about to start doing some of my own records with the cleaning solution. It definitely put a pause on me doing anything as I learned some more about it. Just never enough for the exact answer I was looking for though haha. So thanks Mazzy and I think your reasoning makes the most sense to me.
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
Hey Mazzy, if the Chinese balloons bring HumminGurus, they are welcome to come to me in Germany😂. Of course, all the experts are right that there are better vinyl cleaners, but for completely other crazy prices. The important thing is that you are satisfied and not Mr. Fremer or the other experts. I changed my old Okki Nokki Record Cleaner against the HumminGuru and very satisfied. I'm only clean Records if they look dirty or sounds noisy. Often a brush cleaning is enough. I don't want to spend my life with Record cleaning. I prefer hearing Records and drink a good German Beer. Cheers🍺
Hello from Spokane Mazzy. I have always cleaned every record I purchase but I cleaned them by hand. My theory was always money not spent on $1000+ machines is money to buy more music. However, I recently scored a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine for $200. I couldn’t pass it up and man it has made my life easier. I love it…at $200. My biggest fear of the Humminguru is the longevity of a Chinese plastic machine. But they look to do a great job.
Thank God we as individuals get to choose what and how we take care of OUR collections. Thanks Mazzy for the video 👍🏻
Nice follow-up video Mazzy. I still wash all new albums that show up in the house, and since these are primarily through the mail, it's not a burden. The Stones mono box took a full day of on/off a few albums at a time. FYI, in the notes section of my Discogs library, I record the date that I cleaned the album. That way it takes my memory out of the loop and it's a great reference. Cheers
Thumbs up! I do this as well. All notes is done in Discogs. Date of purchase, price, where I bought it, and when I clean it, and some notes of which tracks I need to check out / favourites / have to play to my friends etc. Discogs is so good to keep track of things. Always at hand.
Think about cleaning your 7500 records…you’d never listen to music ever again. RIP ‘he cleaned his records’
18:09
I buy thrift store albums all the time. This weekend I bought a handful of Frank Sinatra LP's for a buck each. This morning I used my Spin Clean to get the dust and fingerprints off of them, but it was a lot of labor. Compared to their condition before I cleaned them, they look much better, but again it was a lot of work. I can certainly see how the HumminGuru would be a better way to go purely based on it's ease of use. Your final thought was the biggest takeaway: take care of your records. Thanks!
Hand Cleaning works for Me .
@Big Craig Great comment. But, even if you used a HummingGuru, I would suggest you pre-clean them like you do already. You shouldn't put very dirty thrift store albums in an ultrasonic cleaner. Best advise is to pre-clean them a little bit at least. I'd go for a microfiber cloth, 20% Isopropanol + 80% distilled water. Spray it over and wet clean them. I gently rub my (clean) fingers over the surface (works like the best cloth ever and you can feel the debris/dirt), then I wait 20-30 seconds, and use the microfiber cloth clockwise 2-3 rounds, and anti-clockwise 2-3 rounds. Repeat this two times. Then go for the other side. Records get really clean, and it fixes a lot of audible noise and sometimes stuck things that might have been in the groove for decades. I even had skips fixed this way. And we all remember the new Animals remixed album? 40% had faults they say. I managed to fix mine, the "noisy" b-side. This doesn't always work, but it is worth a try.
I find the spin clean cumbersome, and I don't like devices where you have to exchange parts, e.g. brushes, it is just a money making machine for the sellers. Also, does the brushes clean themselves? Then you need that fluid that makes dirt sink to the bottom, and that fluid is not very cheap either.
I'd go for simple manual wet-clean, and maybe invest in a machine in the future. I'm not a fan of having too many devices. Less is more is my mantra.
And I'd go for Mazzis mantra. Take care of them by just a quick wipe with your brush, and dry-brush your stylus quickly. This was a great video! Keep it up.
Hi Mazzy I'm with you on several points. I'm about 600 cleans in on my HG cleaner and am amazed it what it can do for the price. I've used a friends Audio Desk and while it may be more automatic and a tad bit better it's 7 times the price. I do however clean everything including new and for really grimy used records I pick up I do clean manually first like I did before the HG and then run it thru. Have fun using yours, it's made me appreciate some older records I have way more and as you always say 'It's the Music"!
The HG is an amazing machine for the price point. I've cleaned about 800 records so farm I use straight distilled water only change the filters every 50 records cleaned and I really sleeve them in clean inners. Great video.
I use a PRO-JECT - VC-S2 ALU Record Cleaning Machine when cleaning myself. When I buy from the In Grove, I have Mike clean them. I have also sent several batches to Perfect Vinyl Forever, and love what they do. I have around 500 records some I bought as far back as 1976. My old records, I first cleaned with a Spin Clean and I was amazed the crud that came off them (I take care of my stuff). I think it is worth it to clean them but for my collection size, and my equipment the PRO-JECT makes sense.
My local vinyl shop has a Okki Nokki vacuum record cleaner. They kindly helped me clean a few used records and the sound difference was extraordinary. But as you say, cleaning machines can't fix bad audio quality that's ingrained on the vinyl for whatever reason. Thanks for this great video. Very helpful to hear opinions about other machines.
I picked up a HumminGuru last month and largely been fine WITHOUT Tergikleen, but some of my recent vinyl purchases are absolutely disgusting out of the sleeve. I use the surfactant first cycle on the really nasty ones and then a second cycle with only distilled water to wash off any remaining residue.
Surface noise massively reduced or eliminated using this device; very happy with the results...tons of bang for the buck of an amateur hobbyist using the HumminGuru. Preserving the viny and my stylus!
This is really helpful! I am not an audiophile, but I am a DJ who has a vinyl collection over a 20-year period. I really don't want to spend a lot of time having to deep clean records that, truthfully, are going to get played maybe, in total, a few times. I'm very glad to have them, and very glad to have a collection, and yes I sometimes spend obscene amounts for them (and by the way, I'm with you on not cleaning the new ones from the get-go, unless it's noticeable). I'm fine with the 5-minute cleaning with the water to at least get the excess removed. I'm up for doing my own "100 records" test to see what happens, but I think your opinions are sound. I do understand the ones that really wish to keep their records in immaculate shape, and my hats off to them. Sometimes, "good enough" will do. Thanks much!
Thanks for the follow up. I was lucky enough to have access to record cleaners from the beginning. Catching up on your back catalog would be daunting. I still DO think nearly every record sounds better after a wet wash.
Nice sporting the airpods Rudy Giuliani-style lol😂
Thanks, Mazzy! I agree... and I may just buy this machine; I've had my eye on it for awhile. I think it is right in my wheelhouse for what it can accomplish, the price point... Anyway, appreciate the insight! A Friend in Bellevue
I was one of the first persons to comment on the cleaning video about post rinsing the Tergikleen. I recently made a comment on a Tergikleen advertisement about it hazing 2 of my new records. I also told her about the videos and conversations regarding the use of surfactants. We had an interesting conversation.
Thanks for the update. I received my Humminguru on Friday and have already started the cleaning process. One 60 yo record showed the most improvement so far. Yes, I do agree on the Columbia 2 & 6 eye... most of them sound much better than they look. Not sure how they made such durable vinyl back then.😊
Wonderful!
Great video Mazzy, thanks! I'm looking at the Humminguru. I've always just used micr-fibre brush and if necessary, a vinyl spray and lint-free cloth if the record is really dirty for whatever reason. Keep the videos coming...
Thank you ✌🏼
Saw earlier in my feed and remember saying out loud...."Yet another cleaning records video from Mazzy"....thinking how long is going to squeeze water out of this rock!?!?!? Just finished watching and can honestly say was thoroughly entertained for 24 minutes....nice job....your channel continues to be the most interesting on the VC....keep up the great work👍
Yeah these aren’t for everyone, but I’ve been asked by a lot of people to post an update of this new record cleaning journey and it’s something I wanted to do.
So that’s all folks. At least for now 🤠
Glad you like the Humminguru (and - kind of - recommed it). Mine is arriving tomorrow and will supplement or replace my manual DiscOstat (similar to a Spinclean).
Looking forward to see/hear what it can do (I also buy 2nd hand LPs).
Would love to hear your thoughts, Cap’n Phoenix. The differential between an anti-stat and the humminguru is a crucial one for many of us I suspect.
@@lokitio I'll be happy to share my thoughts and experiences when I start to use the HumminGuru. Will be in a couple of weeks I think (I'll probably make a video on my channel).
@@Claus-CaptainPhoenixCorner yes count me too in as interested in what you learn!
You make laugh! I enjoy your shows! I don't usually comment, but I might do more of it now!
Nice to read you 😵💫🤠
@@mazzysmusic 😎
Mazzy, well thought out summary. I made my own ultrasonic cleaner for about $150. about 6 yrs. ago. Very labor intensive. Used Tergikleen in the tank to clean, then rinsed them off using a 2 gallon pump sprayer filled with Distilled water over my bathtub while they slowly spun on a cordless drill. Sped the drill up and spun them dry! Worked beautifully and came out spotlessly clean. I saved my pennies and got a Degritter, which I absolutely love. I also use Tergikleen for the wash. I wash a number of records on the medium cycle, then swap out the tank with another filled with just distilled water and run them thru the short cycle. There is NO residue or issue with Tergikleen. The people who say "Don't use any surfactants, just water" remind me of the purists who tell you not to use any tone controls on your amp/receiver. Do you wash your self, or your clothes with just water? (I hope not...LOL!) No. It doesn't do a satisfactory job of cleaning by itself. If Tergikleen is good enough for the Library of Congress it sure as hell is good enough for me. After cleaning several thousand records- LPs and 45s, I can tell you without a doubt that cleaning with Tergikleen provides much better results than using only distilled water.
An ultrasonic machine do not need any surfactants, because the kHz it uses splits up the water molecule which works as a surfactant itself. Only distilled water is needed. No graphs is needed to prove this.
Tween 80 clear sound cheap.. Turgeekleen xpensiv
Hi Mazzy, entertaining and informative video. Absolutely correct Mazzy, taking care of the discs is the best option. And avoid using the Discwasher brush clones because they just push the dirt deep into the groove where it sets, and the stylus can't get it out.
My take on it is this: I use tergiclean and am happy with it. I clean all my records when I get them in a spin clean with a knock off version used as a rinse tank. Its amazing what it does to old dirty records. Seems to get rid of static too.
Hi Mazzy, you are the only youtuber I know who manages to talk about music, record cleaning methods and artists of photography in the same video - managing not to bore the viewers. I love you (metaphorically)!
Then I guess I succeeded this time. It has to always come back to the music. Occasionally I enjoy watching gear videos and of course anything that relates to art ✌🏼
@@mazzysmusic Hi again, Norman, maybe it will seem redundant to you, but I would like to specify that my previous message was a sincere appreciation of your way of talking about music and everything that surrounds it. 🤝
@@meetanto I got that and it’s greatly appreciated 🕊️
Thank you for your very entertaining content on your CZcams channel. I was on the fence every sense they had the Kick Start campaign, But I held off. Have been watching a lot of other peoples youtube videos on the HumminGuru. You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru. Because I do respect your non bias opinion on the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru.
So, I finally ordered one and I am very pleased with the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru. It makes a great improvement on the sound with the pops and clicks. within a reason. But, it can't fixed damaged records.
I am using the GrooveWasher Ultrasonic Record Wash concentrate. It takes just one drop in the You were the deciding factor on getting the HumminGuru tray or 8-10 drops per gallon.
Thank you so much, Mazzy
Michael
Happy that it is working do you too ✌🏼
Cheers from Mumbai! Thanks for making this video. Very nice video with thoughful statements. The more one looks at videos the more confusing it gets. What is needed is to put things in perspective which is exactly what your video does. Vinyls were manufactured for listening and enjoying music and one must do (within one's means) what it takes to improve it without over-doing it. The final punch line - take care of vinyls. Something simular is the case with books and printing. The quality of printed books is going down and so I take care of my collection of books as well. Take care of ANYTHING you value be it vinyl record or books or antique clocks.
The plural of Vinyl is also VINYL, not vinyls... cheers!
One thing I've always found crazy is that after a certain price bracket, turntables just don't have dust covers. Why bitch about how people are cleaning their records when you've spent $10,000 on a turntable without a fucking dust cover.
It just beggars belief.
Dust covers, especially when left open picks up sound waves, and your turntables becomes a turntable-satellite that picks up everything. Think about that one!
Just finished cleaning all 1200 of my records using spin clean first and then the humminguru. Put them in anti static innersleeves after cleaning. I also donated any record that wasnt strong VG or better to local thrift store. Took me about 6 months to finish. Very good feeling knowing all my records have been thoroughly cleaned. That being said i couldnt even imagine trying to clean 7500 records
I agree, just a couple of good brushes and a zero stat do me just fine-I have a few older tag sale items and I’m putting those aside for a scrub, but I’m not hopeful
I started collecting LPs in the 60s and 70s. I've used the Spin Clean and the Nitty Gritty vacuum cleaner for many years. I also have the mono Sgt Pepper album. I just purchased the Humminguru and I'm hoping I can get a better sonic boost and clean up the noise floor. Good video Massy. Wish me luck in my continuing adventure. Long Live Vinyl!
Good advice, Mazzy! Your original video/demo of the HumminGuru was a catalyst for me to buy one of those devices (which I had been contemplating). I've now cleaned about 90 albums using it, and I have been very satisfied with the results. I've been targeting cleaning older LPs in my collection and anything secondhand I've acquired lately. I am using some surfactant because I'm convinced that it assists in more evenly spreading the water layer over the record. It beats using any kind of soap which comes with some record cleaning systems. I had cleaned all of my albums using the standard Spin Clean (2000+ collection), but that is more limited in how it can really reduce surface noise compared to the HumminGuru (of course, it's a lot cheaper, too). Anyway, I hope the HumminGuru can last a while. Not planning to spend thousands of dollars on a record cleaner.
AGREED! You can literally see how much more surface is consistently covered with a surfactant during an initial wash cycle. My understand it helps cut the water to really get inside grooves.
@@false_binary I use isopropanol for this. It is almost 98% alcohol, and it really gets dirt loose and it wipes all the sh#t off. I've seen Ultrasonic machines that can't really remove fingerprints etc. but a manual wet-clean can. Now, people claim that isopropanol may destroy your vinyl. Please, prove it! If there was any truth in it, it wouldn't be stored in a PVC plastic bottle in the first place, plus it vaporises and leaves no trace behind (just read the specs). This stuff is used to clean electronics such as print-boards as well.
Yes, have been a Club DJ in the early to mid 80's. Played all records wet - because of smoke drinks dust ... after the change to CD ... I received a bunch of my favorite ones and cleaned it back than with soft hand warm water and some drops of dish cleaner to reduce the tension of the water. And dried it smoothly with a really soft terry towel. And since 1985 they are in great shape. No need for a washing. Just using a carbon fiber brush. That's it.
Mazzy, to my mind you are 100% right!
Hi Mazzy I recently bought a Humminguru
I am also using a Groovewasher G Sonic Detergent/ Surfactant I wrote to them and they told me it is safe to use on both Machine and Vinyl as it is diluted so much but does help in getting the water into the grooves and no I don’t rinse afterwards either.
Insightful as always, thank you. A while back Fremer recommended TM -8, a solution invented by Toy Shigekawa: engineer, rocket scientist, and avid audiophile. I could only find it from an audio shop in Pasadena. With that said, I love it. I use a Record Doctor with the solution and that's all.
Toy Shigekawa once called me directly 30+ years ago when I purchased the Torumat turntable mat & record weight. It improved my AR table at the time. He was one of the nicest men I ever spoke with!
@@jackwezesa1081 Right on Jack, very cool!
I'm with ya.. I typically don't ultrasonic clean records, new or old, unless they really need it. Just as long as they're not riddled with tics & pops, etc, or obviously need a deep cleaning.
The only thing I think is by wet washing your LP's, it gets rid of the static charge that's synonymous with records, so the record should have less surface noise. I use distilled water with one drop of eco friendly washing up liquid, for the first wash, then two washes with just distilled water, it seems to work fine for me, there's no chemicals, great video mazzy, really well explained 👍
Anoraks like me use Tween 80 surfactant £3.9 pence for 10 ml ebay. Perfume, foam boosters in ecover type cleaner... Tween 80 works great..
Hi Mazzy
I have used the Disco Anti-stat machine for around 40 years or so. This was recommended to me by my local Hi-fi store in Aberdeen Scotland. It was very cheap and cost around £40.00. The rack could only hold 20 discs so I ended up buying another two machines and I have bought several litres of fluid over the years. Cleaning was important for me as I had a business selling jazz vinyl at jazz concerts and by mail order. Some of the rare Blue Notes etc. really improved after cleaning and my customers were usually pleased. One negative was that occasionaly it left a kind of sheen on the surface but with care I managed to avoid this. When I first started collecting in the late 60's a local record shop offered a record cleaning service at around 2/6, i. e. 12.5 pence. They always put the disc into a brand new inner sleeve after cleaning. I try to do this if possible and obviously I keep the original inner sleeve. This machine was called the Monks machine and the fluid was hoovered up after washing.
Best wishes
Bill Christie.
Don’t know about that one. Thank you for the info 🤷🏻♂️
From an archival standpoint, I’d recommend only using a cleaning additive (surfactant) if it’s followed by a pure water rinse.
Hey Massy! Nice Toaster!! [sic] That's an important distinction: between 'cleaning records' and 'washing' records. Saying "I never cleaned a record" sounds like you never brushed it with an anti-static brush, or one of those velvet rolling pads. I'm glad you've clarified that your method was to use an anti-static brush. I got turned on to a spinning velvet circular pad, use with isopropyl and distilled water in the disco clubs in the late 1970s. Fifty years later, I'm a little more sophisticated. And some of those much loved/much played albums from the 70s and 80s are benefiting greatly from my new cleaning method. I am successfully restoring LPs that used to sound not very good due too much use and less than effective cleaning procedures.
I don't use static brushes. I rub hard with a clean micro fibre rag with the LP securely flat on a round silicone pad from a kitchen store. The 'rub hard approach' is a trick I learned in the 1990s at a used record store in Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island. The record is wet with the water-isopropyl-surfactant solution. The first cloth takes all dust off in one pass. Then the second cloth rubs the liquid out. Basically ending up with a dry record. Here is the thing... it rubs the pops and static too.
If there is real muck on the surface I don't hesitate to attack it with vinegar, or warm water, dishwashing liquid, and the ends of my fingers, under the kitchen tap. That cleans them! After they are dry, I'll play them. If there is static, I give them the 'heavy-rub' treatment.
A couple of days ago I brought home a copy of Steve Miller Band's "Brave New World" (with Paul Ramone on two tracks-aka McCartney). The store owner told me that he cleans his records diligently with a machine. The record sounded clean. Barely a pop or static snap. But... not ANY better than the results I get manually with elbow grease. Yes, it may take two or three cleanings to get it to sound 'perfectly' quiet. But so far... so good. And, no, I'm not doing 700 records in one weekend. I just go along as I play. It means taking 3 - 5 to minutes to clean the record. But it's worth it. For LPs on 'rotation', they get cleaned four or five days in a row and come out sounding absolutely silent. I guess, like Massy, I always took care of my records.
However, my methods for cleaning have advanced, and are now producing consistent and consistently results better than I would get before.
Last word? I totally agree: clean an LP when you hear the noise. The issue for me was never that. Rather, it was: Sure, clean ill the record, but how? With what? I'm getting closer to what I am hoping will turn out to be a fool proof method. It's hand-based because of the number of records in my collection (700) and because, even if I spend 3 - 5 minutes cleaning before I play, it doesn't add up to much in any given week.
As someone who generally doesn't clean his records , occasionally I use a Pro-Ject to clean dust etc and have had some great results. Totally agree with the sentiment that you should do what you want and use common sense (not so common). I have records I have had for 40+ years that sound great and theyve never been cleaned...... Doesn't it make your "teeth ache" when people start getting too precious about these things. I'm going to see if I can get one of these in the UK ---- great video as always
I loved the first video, a bunch of friends having fun and a few drinks. Oh and the random guy with dirty records. I’ve always used a discwasher and now use distilled water with a few drops of isopropyl alcohol in it.
I think my issue is that I only buy second hand in various states. When first got into it i'd use surgical spirit. This worked for 'cleaner' records I bought, but the ones with 40 years of gunk on them, it just made them 'sticky'. So, waiting for a manual record cleaner to arrive. It's got a good rep, so hopefully it will improve playability. Some of the records bought for $2 are actually fairly rare and playable, but they could sound better.
Cleaning can be addictive however you’ve got to watch that you don’t get carried away & actually listen to the music 👍
Yes cleaning helps. I have a kirmuss machine. It’s not perfect and requires a bit more mechanical work but seems to work great on my noisiest disks. I can try that DSOTM for you. Not sure if it will help but the kirmuss has a feedback to the process to see if you actually
Got it clean. Good one Mazzy
Mazzy,
Great discussion. Thanks!
Mr. Pete------>
aging hippie
Great Vid MAZZY.. David here, checking in from Menlo Park! (dig all the SF & GD related content on your channel, btw...) I see you are selling some records... I have needed Blood on the Tracks forever. LMK if we can do a deal on that one I see in your stacks. Peace&Love
Great video. I started cleaning my records in alphabetical order and listened to them one by one - sometimes only one side and sometimes entire albums. Granted I only have about 1000 and I got through D and all my top favorite artists.
And...How do they sound before and after...
@@Benji306 I have a blend of new, used and great shape and used and so-so shape. The most improvements you hear is the ones that are in not so great shape - I t reduced the surface noise quite a bit. and then next surprisingly are the new records: the ones with the occasional pops and clicks and a lot of them are because there is some dust and dirt in the grooves that the humminguru can clean but a regular brush won't catch. Basically a new noise record turns into a rather quiet record. The good used ones are the ones where I noticed the least improvement. I found two really beat up dark side of the moon early copies last summer (one was a Canadian first press) - I could not listen to them but after two thorough cleanings they turned into decent listenable records. Hope this makes sense ;-) and thanks for asking
@@ptownmusicroom580 Sounds good, thanks for the reply. How do you feel about CD's as they do eliminate much of what you're speaking of.
@@Benji306 I don't collect CDs, I like the big physical media. However for travel CDs are the next best thing when you like physical. My daughter has her favorite artists on vinyl and cd and it's a cool thing.
@@ptownmusicroom580 I grew up buying vinyl but by late 80's switched over CD's. It was a hard switch but had no choice at the time really. That is what I amassed my collection with over a 30 year period. I can't go back now and replace the CD's with vinyl. It's to expensive and would take me years to replace them. I feel like I'm missing something as a result by not having vinyl. However much of the CD's I do have are of higher quality, (SHM, SACD HQ) so they do sound decent. When I see vinyl vid's I just grin and bear it now.
Great vid Mazzy.
Agree with what you say. We all have our own rituals about how we clean, use and enjoy our record collections…. Some of these are changed over time, often informed by listening to our peers, others through personal preference and situation. But either way if it works for you… fair enough..
Pity that if some do not agree with your personal rituals it may invoke a belligerent response from some of those who’s views differ… disappointingly even from those who invoke current ‘scientific’ leanings.
Ah well, such is the way of the world.
Think I might be investing in a ‘Hummdinger’ soon… 😂
Yes whatever works for you. This is working for me right now ✌🏼
Perfectly sensible and perfectly logical. Don't sweat the small stuff and start enjoying the records put out by these talented souls. Life's too short! 🍻
Well said!✌🏼
I agree Mazzy. If a record is dirty you'll easily heart it, or see it. I use an old Cleaeaudio Smart Matrix and it works great
This is why like you channel to the point and honest the humminguru is in my budget those others Degritter and KLaudio is way out my budget. It kills me when everyone is a expert you have to do what works for you great thoughts after 100 Mazzy the humminguru is one I’m going to get take care.
Aloha Mazza, thank you for your follow-up review. I myself used that cleaner I put 10 drops in a gallon of distilled water 💧. In the pass few months I've been hearing about the humming guru. Hopefully I order one in March. I've seen it on Amazon but it was $499.00 Shipping included, & it comes w/ 7 & 10 inch adapters. Will I save more buying directly?.
Thanks again Mazza.
Looking forward to watching your next video.
Mahalo Ed
How many records one has is certainly a valid consideration. I decided to clean all of mine with two six liter US tanks, 2/3 of the records bought used, some back in
the 70s, but I only have about 300. It still took about a year of evenings where there was nothing better to do. Cleaning ones that seem like they can be improved is probably a good plan.
Great video Mazzy. To everyone. An ultrasonic device do not need surfactant, only distilled water. Here is why. The kHz used splits up the water molecules, H2O to H+OH, and that works as a surfactant itself (this is the bubbles you see that cleans the grooves). It works as a "free" surfactant without any bi-effects. This is also why the record's label won't be spilled with water as well as other surfactants will do. The record's is easy to dry without any residue as nothing were applied in the first place.
For really dirty records, I'd do a pre-clean before using the ultrasonic machine.
Follow Mazzy's mantra and take care of your collection without too much buzz.
Thanks. And of course every other person has a different take on this. Scientist engineers and archivists (Smithsonian , etc) advise to use a surfactant. Many audio gear and record reviewers say use just the distilled water.
I guess we just do was works for each of us and what we feel comfortable to use 🤠
Appreciate the comment
@@mazzysmusic There is no need to prove the science behind and "take on this" explaining how ultrasonic works. This is what it does. H2O to H+OH. The kHz used determines the resolution of this.
Besides this, of course, people may do what they want. They can use a sandpaper if they want. Everyone has a different take on it 😎
@@mazzysmusic As explained above, you do NOT need a surfactant. Why do you ignore how ultrasonics work?
Does it go over your head?
The ultrasonics water molecule splitting up is not anything that is subjective for each and one of us. It works the same. These people you mention can't really be scientists, if they do not know that H2O to H+OH isn't in their knowledge a surfactant. How ignorant.
"Many audio gear and record reviewers say use just the distilled water." They have understood the basic knowledge of ultrasonic.
Now, how you clean your records otherwise, go head, use a sandpaper if you will. No one stops you.
If you, Norman, wants to double up with surfactants, go ahead.
Also, the Earth is round for some, or to be precise, elliptical, and for some, dead flat.
I've noticed that after cleaning a record with a soft, damp towel dipped in Clorox that the higher frequencies become noticeably more prominent.
I looked at ultrasonic cleaners, the Degritter but having to purchase the adapters for 7” 10” records was not appealing.
I approached Loricraft Audio to make enquiries. The deal breaker was the company threw in £168 of accessories i. e. The soft dust cover and the 7” 10” and 12” cleaning brushes, goat hair brush etc as a special offer. So my mind was made, and I decided to purchase the Loricraft PRC6i. Now l don’t play a record on our system unless cleaned. A definite game changer imo.
I think a pre-wash then a main-wash (using the Manufacturers recommended cleaning fluid) and rinse (with pure distilled water) with either a Loricraft or a Keith Monks precise vacuum RCM (to get the surface grime off the record) vacuum drying between each of these three cleaning cycles then followed by the Degritter MK1 or MK2 (giving the 120kHz Ultrasonic cleaning direct to the sides of the record to right inside the grooves) with a main wash using the Manufacturers supplied cleaning fluid followed by a rinse cycle with distilled water and then drying in the Degritter is the way to go to get nice clean records !
If you can afford it, also using the KLaudio LP-200 or LP-200T (to give the 40kHz ultrasonic cleaning direct to the sides of the record) after the Loricraft or Keith Monks RCM and before the Degritter MK1 or MK2 with just distilled water would be ideal !
Thanks!
Reasonable position, clearly stated.
I understand that audiophiles seek audio perfection but I'm more on the side of Tom Waits who said (& sorry I can't find the quote) that the best way to judge a song is by how it sounds through ratty car speakers.
Dude you are awesome
Thanks for posting this follow up Mazzy.
If I can summarise, in your experience the humminguru can deliver a discernibly positive and audible improvement on records that are especially dirty or have audible flaws except in cases where those flaws relate to physical damage?
I wonder if you’d started with a manual device like the knosti disco anti-stat, the spin clean or the spin care, would you have noticed a different or slightly worse benefit? And would you have stopped there? To your point of not seeing the value of an $11,000 cleaning system perhaps most of the benefit of cleaning is achieved by any type of cleaning. Research done by Paul Rigby, Dave Denyer et al., the sweet spot seems to be anti-static plus a little isopropyl and ilfotol… but the key for anyone is to do exactly what you’ve done and find out what works for you and what delivers an audible result that satisfies you.
Just as an aside, the automated audio transcript has decided that the right solution to use is distilled water and something called ‘Turkey clean’. I’m almost certain this isn’t the AI having a laugh at our expense.
A good turkey baster is the next evolution in record cleaning management. Thank you for your comments and help and support over the past several weeks ✌🏼
I approve this message.
I tend to agree with you. I buy new and second-hand vinyl. With new vinyl, I ALWAYS give them a wipe with anti static spray. If the album plays well, then I don't bother to clean it further. If the record is noisy/crackley, then I will give it a deep clean along with my second-hand albums.
Norman, your in more of a unique position. You’ve been buying new for 50 years straight. Most people like me either paused, or only started after the vinyl era. I’m making up for lost time. I mostly buy used at flea markets, thrift shops, antique shops, record stores, and record shows. Ultrasonic and other cleaning methods are were meant for. As a kid, I was very careful with my records. I always used a Disc Washer brush, and an anti static brush. Those childhood records I wouldn’t bother using a cleaner on it. I’d just do as I did as a kid. All my newer acquisitions will go thru various cleaning methods to get to a reasonable cleanliness. After which, Ill follow up with what I did as a kid. My childhood records look beautiful. I can’t say the same thing about my childhood toys and books
I say the same thing. Other than a discwasher we never cleaned them. I recently jumped on the band wagon , it does make a difference. I’m happy I purchased it’s become a full blown hobby. Have fun is the most important thing.
Mazzy do you have a mono switch on your amp? If not that may explain some of the leftover surface noise on that sgt pepper. Stereo needle picks up the empty channel and just picks up noise. Thanks for the cool video.
There is no empty channel. Same signal goes to L and R.
I've never been much of a record cleaner myself. Back in the golden years, records were always pristine out of the cover. If it crackled it was a bad pressing and I took it back. Generally, I just gave it a wipe over now and again with an anti-static cloth. These days with record companies struggling to keep up with production, quality control is out of the window in favour of volume. Sometimes a new record is covered in so much paper residue it's almost as bad as confetti! I now have no choice but to thoroughly clean any new record I purchase.
Thanks for the info. I shop at In-Groove and Mike is always preaching using just distilled water. I’m glad to listen to another opinion and wouldn’t be against using a surfactant as an experiment on my problem records. Did you say you use 8-10 drops per gallon?
I may get one of these after your endorsement
I'm poor, so I just use microfiber clothes and Big Fudge record cleaner. Works great, no residue, and will do until I can afford a machine. Thanks for the vid!
I use a little photo flow and it works great for my film and records :-)) Good stuff
Hey Norman! Can you do a John Cale ranking? There's a brand new album out by this veteran and his catalouge is so deep that I'm probalby not the only one who needs a bit direction. Cheers.
Hi! I’m seriously considering a Humminguru..would you purchase one again given your experience with it? Thank you!
I am like you Mazzy. I have been collecting records for 49 years and I almost never clean them. The only exception is if I buy a used record that plays very poorly with a lot of surface noise. I keep my records pristine and do not allow them to get dirty in the first place. The only way to clean a record safely and properly is to use a machine that also drys the record by sucking off all the fluid otherwise you could be making matters worse. Such machines usually cost a lot of money and do not make sense for most people. You should not need to clean new records. If you buy a new record and it plays with a lot of surface noise then you should return it! New records should be sold in playable condition - you should not need to clean them on a machine costing thousands of dollars to make them sound acceptable. I buy most of my records new. If I was buying many used records then that would be the only scenario in which it would make sense for me to buy an expensive cleaning machine. Many people "clean" their record in inappropriate ways which causes irreparable damage to their precious vinyl.
What mix are you using with the surfactant ?
My one rule if you want to keep them pristine - don’t take them to parties.
Amen brother ✌🏼
Welcome aboard! It doesn't matter how clean your records are, they arrive from the record plant with mold release and other contaminants that need to be removed - IF you want the best sound possible. We recently upgraded our cleaning protocol and equipment from a Vinyl Styl spin clean with chemical wash/rinse to adding a 2nd stage ultrasonic clean cycle of 5 minutes in distilled water with a drop of surfactant. And wow the 2 stage records sounded better, noticeably better. We tried just an ultrasonic cycle Nada, even 10 minutes Nada. What we found (as others have before us) is records need to be both chemically cleaned and ultrasonically cleaned. On a highly resolving system you can immediately hear the difference. And the proof is in the 2 tanks, you can clearly see what each cleaning process removes. Do you need to spend huge dollars? No, years ago I bought the Vinyl Styl spin clean and it's still going strong, all I do is replace the goat hair brushes every 6 months and I love the O ring gasket on the record clamp, it's the perfect manual budget spin type cleaner. For our ultrasonic cleaner we bought the better quality unit on Amazon, it has a very nicely made aluminum tank mount system that works perfectly. It's $100 more than the cheaper model but worth every dollar we paid and more. Chemical cleaning solution 75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl alcohol @99%, Fuji film surfactant and a couple drops of dish soap. And Bob's Your Uncle!
Here in France, the prices of new vinyl records can sometimes be ridiculous. It may also be the case for records you can find in antique shops, garage sales and thrift stores. Semi-professional sellers surf on the vinyl wave and sell totally uninteresting and badly damaged records for ridiculous prices. Still, I buy nearly all my vinyls used and have no choice but to clean them if I want to have a rewarding listening experience. Personally, I use the manual german Knosti system (50-70 euros/dollars) with a cleaning solution made of diluted isopropanol + surfactant. Ant it works fine.
Totalement d'accord avec toi sur le prix des vinyles même d'occasion ils commencent vraiment à être ridicule...
J'ai une petite question tu utilise un mélange avec du surfactant mais tu utilise quoi?
A chaque fois que je vois une recommandation sur un produit il est trouvable uniquement en importation et a des prix exorbitant (30€ le produit + 30€ de livraison) ou alors pas en stock...
@@Frozen09 Hello, j'ai acheté le surfactant chez Amazon (Tetenal Mirasol 2000), un produit utilisé pour éviter les traces de séchage sur les films photos. Il était recommandé par quelqu'un sur CZcams qui fabrique lui-même son liquide de lavage pour les vinyles (on trouve la recette un peu partout). C'est vrai que c'est pas donné, surtout qu'on en utilise très peu. J'ai acheté aussi l'isopropanol chez Amazon. Voilà
@@thierrydefrance7220 super, merci pour la réponse 👌
i always had that perception too about the car after a wash funny
Hi Mazzy - Great video! Bottom line is do whatever works for you. You mentioned selling some records, are you going to do a youtube auction like Patrick does? Cheers! Brian
Yes March 4. 11 am pacific.
Good balance on the subject. I’m using an ultrasonic with Tergikleen. I use 20 drops to a gallon, 34 degrees Celsius 93F, 6 revolutions (15 minutes), rinse 2 records with 1 gallon distilled water, dry with the softest microfiber from the rag company. They come out like new and after about 40 records you can see all the grime at the bottom of the ultrasonic machine. How do you purchase the records you might sell? Thank You
March 4th here 11am pacific we’ll be selling some. ✌🏼
Thank You
I started cleaning 25 years ago. All the baby boomers were dumping their vinyl and I was in heaven. I use a toothbrush that has been bent to a special angle using a candle flame. Its a four step process that takes less than ten minutes to do both sides. One example: I bought a MFSL copy of Ziggy Stardust. It looked very nice, close to perfect, but played VG+ with a lot of surface noise. After cleaning it sounded close to NM and brought a good deal more money on Ebay. 400.00 machine vs free toothbrush. 400.00 will buy a lot of vinyl. Toothbrush breaks ya just get a new toothbrush. And it doesn't use electricity or make noise. The experts can say that the bristles cant get down in the grooves, there to big, and it wont work, but it does. It works very very well indeed.
Some new records are absolutely covered in grime that's actually feelable and not just paper fragments, so they get a clean before playing as the stylus get's totally clogged up really quickly. The rest is always on an as required basis - so if it sounds ok I leave it
I never got this grime, but a few years ago there were lot of fingerprints. But I think the fingerprint (thumb)-dude has lost his job or quit.
Lasermedia spray , micro fiber cloth. Cleaned on my 1977 sound guard record pad. Also in 5 decades i never buy a used record
Surely the best practice is to clean an album before you play ?
That way you don’t spend hours and hours just cleaning your collection for the sake of cleaning 🧼
Keep up the great vids Mazzy for the masses 🎶
My machine makes 95db when cleaning with a very high pitch sound. Is that a normal value for everyone?
Mazzy , thanks again for a great video. Just want to be sure I am clear on the process you have adopted. Do you do one pass of the record with "Mazzy's mix" ( with Turgital) and then a second pass with straight distilled water ?
I almost always now start with distilled water only and leave it at that … unless the record looks particularly dirty or I know there is a major sound issue. Then I’ll start w the mix and then do a clean wash afterwards. I imagine this may vary occasionally ✌🏼
@@mazzysmusic Thanks much. BTW I agree with your approach and advice. i.e take care of your records and clean only when you have to. I plan to order the Humminguru soon.
I still use my D4 brush and fluid. Only when required.
This is the approach to take. Don't stress out on cleaning what does not need cleanoing.
A brush to remove staticy dust pre play is so wise.
I too have LPs owned from new that have lasted 50 + years with little more than a light dusting and still sound great.
I see the HumminGuru as the economy car of ultrasonic cleaners.
It will get you there, and clean without surfactants like tergitol or the prepackaged turgikleen. Tergitol is a type of soap really. Just a cleaner that has been found to leave no harmful residue.
I have cleaned my collection with Tergitol , and a AquaFina water rinse, on a VPI vacuum machine and it seems to have done no harm.
Its clear to me that ultrasonic like in the humminguru is harmless and effective.
When a record , new or old (but mostly used and misused), sounds noisy, give it a wash . Otherwise dust it with a record brush and that's all you need.
Signed ,
A 68 year old lifelong record enjoyer in Toronto.
Now where's my hat.
Right here 🤠
I’ve been using a VPI 16.5 machine for 6 years. It has served me well. It would be nice to have an ultrasonic machine. However, I can’t justify that cost. My records are in great condition thus not really needing one. Maybe one day.
MAZZY or anyone else, can you tell me the brush “Mark Edison, Mark 4” being described at 6:13. I’ve searched but can’t seem to find it. Just looking for a good brush 🤷♂️
Hunt EDA Mark 6: I'm Not sure where you can buy it. I got it in Seattle at Hawthorne Stereo several years ago...
Mas... I got Coltrane's Blue Train... The CD is a Mexico burn remastered by Kevin Gray and sounds great...
Sure I clean my vinyl (new & old) simple wipe down. I'm fascinated that Mike from the In Groove charges an extra $8 to open your new vinyl that you order from him to clean it before shipping.
Dam, vinyl has gotten so expensive I just think that is crazy (overkill).
When I bought a Spin Clean two years ago and started cleaning my records, within five records the water was black with dirt and there's no way removing that was a bad thing. I took off decades of dirt. Even if I have a pristine vinyl, dust and dirt can still attach between sleeve and TT. I bought a VPI and easily justified it by thinking a buck to clean every record is a lot of bucks and the VPI is a good deal. If I want to sell records off, which I do, the buyer deserves a clean record. The main thing is I heard the difference. An it's a zen vibe that I really enjoy.