Tuning the Edelbrock Carburetor using an AFR Meter
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2023
- There are many ways to tune a new carburetor. Modern technology and efi relies on the wideband O2 sensor to read and adjust the fuel provided to the engine during different Rpms and under different loads. In this video, I use the AIr Fuel meter to do simple carburetor adjustments and get the carburetor tuned closer to the demands of this engine in this car. I’m on no way saying this is the only way to tune a carburetor, and recommend checking spark plug coloring as well.
For more tuning videos and information, go check out @talljohnsfunshop2722 , @UnityMotorSportsGarage @318willrun @UncleTonysGarage . - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have a long write up posted on vintage mustang forum covering when I worked through tuning similar to this. In summary there are 4 different stages to be tuned on Edelbrocks. Idle, Cruise, Acceleration, and Wide-Open-Throttle (WOT). Tune the Idle with a vacuum gauge obtaining highest vacuum at stead ideal RPM by adjusting two front screws. Cruise and Acceleration are controlled by the primary rods and jets and tuned with an AFR gauge. Transition between cruise and acceleration is controlled by the step up springs and accelerator pump. After idle is tuned, next tune the Cruise mode at a steady cruise RPM - moving up(richer) and down (leaner) on the chart to achieve desired - typically AFR 14.7 for gasoline and 14.2 for E10. Then tune Acceleration moving left (leaner) and right (richer) on the chart ~14 AFR. Note here that you will be in acceleration mode when the rod lifts out of the seat overcoming the vacuum (you can actually see this if you slide the cover over a bit). The moment this happens is defined by the color of the spring and you have to know when this is in order to ensure that you are tuning the Acceleration mode. WOT is controlled by the secondary jets and is tuned by changing the timing of when the secondary air valves open by adjusting the spring tension or air valve weight (depending on AFB model) and secondary jets to achieve ~12.5 AFR when stomping on the gas pedal. Usually the secondary air valve weight is actually too LIGHT causing the famous 'Edelbog' when transitioning to WOT.
Nice thank you!
Great info!!! Thanks.
Ho lee fuk . I’m definitely putting efi in
Does the same go for holley?
This is exactly what I've been searching for. Thanks man!
Achieving Volumetric efficiency.
Performance, efficiency and economy.
Good tuning Joe.
Car sounds good.
Thanks for sharing the process.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks Ed! It was a good day to drive and tinker
That was fun, just finished watching all the videos on this playlist ,its a really nice Coronet. Cheers Sir 😊
Much appreciated!
Thanks for posting this. I am getting ready to tune a carb with the AEM AFR guage and this helps me know what to expect.
Glad it helped! Definitely take your time and enjoy the process. Timing is always first🫡
Thank you Joe for real world test and tune on the road with all the chart and adjustments explaining. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful! Definitely listen for the lean conditions and and drive in some different terrains if possible. I found one of the only hills around here to be sure she was happy pulling it.
@@JustMoparJoe I sure will do all that with my new AVS2 on my 318 bored n stroked to 392 in my 68 dart 2 dr sedan.
@@NilesJStJohn excellent!
Great video Joe. Best decisions are made when well informed. Data is King.
Couldn't agree more! Thanks Jonny!
Awesome info. Thanks Joe. When I get my little 340 up n running again I’m definitely gonna try on a tune like this
Right on! These gauges are invaluable
Great video!!! I learned a lot. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks John
Great vid , Joe ! thank you !
Thanks Tom!
Always something new to experience 👍
Thank you! This one goes home soon
Great video. I am just about to do the same thing with my car. Now I know what to expect. Thanks.
Thank you! Be sure it’s not too lean anywhere, and you’re good. I added more jetting after this video because of the wide open throttle pull being too lean.
Great video and very informative Joe.
Thanks Chris. It was fun to run around and tune on the old girl
Great job and video Joe. If you go the next sixe larger in the secondary jets, I'll bet that thing will land right where you want it. You've got the tedious part done! 🏁
Thanks Tony! I definitely did 👍🏼
Perfect for tuning!
Indeed it is!
This brings back memories😎 (Good ones)
Thanks brother
that's a sweet gauge pod! lol
great video, looking to do the same on my 360 here soon. got the innovate dual lambda single gauge which is nice since it runs a dual sensor in to a single gauge with dual readouts.
loved the info regarding the swapping of the holes on the linkage
and damn after the changes, you were really able to dial in pretty much on top of that 14.7. Incredible what carburetors are capable of with the proper tune. Looking forward to seeing how you finalize the last little lean issue at WOT
awesome work!
Thank you. Great idea on that gauge. Had to add some jetting for the rear barrels
That’s pretty cool
I love the content ❤
Thanks Rich!
Running good !! I like the black eddy, looks good !
Thank You, Tim. She was actually nice out of the box
Awesome video!
Thanks for the visit! Hope you’re well, brother
Nice job Joe, this car kind of reminds me a lot of my 64 polara 500 it had a 383 HP.
That would be a beast! Thanks brother
Excellent live data tool. We should all run these...
Thanks Derek!
Awesome brother
Thanks brother!
That’s a nice looking carburetor. I think eddy’s are great as long as you don’t have to do a lot of tweaking and tuning on a regular basis.
Very true! Thanks Mike.
Testing takes time . Good results
It’s a fun process 👍🏼
Didn't know about those AFR meters. COOL 😎
Yes sir. Good addition for sure
There you go, learning.
i dont know what it is about this old coronet that trips my trigger because i never have been too big on 4 door cars bjut this one is so cool.you have done a good job here joe,good work
Thanks Paul! It needed the final buffing. I won’t video all that, but man it looks complete now
What your showing is very informative, youngsters may learn something about carbs tuning,
I dont know if you noticed, but there was a highway patroll lights flashing behind you for a fiew miles ,watching your demonstration on carb tuning also , keep up the teaching people,good job
Haha! Thank you. It’s a fun process
I've been using an afr for a couple years tuning those Edelbrocks on my trucks. Power and cruise mode is related to vacuum. The rods have the step on them, when the vacuum is high the fat part of the rod is in the jet (cruise mode). When the vacuum is low the small part of the rod is in the jet (power mode). You can change the step-up spring to affect vacuum level when the rod changes position.
Thanks Thomas. I did the quick test off camera of seeing if the springs bounced while in gear. As soon as I touch the throttle, they popped up. I will play with some lighter springs and watch the AFR 👍🏼
Yes, I was thinkin vac would be the thing to watch. And I couldn’t really tell when the Sec tipped in, so disconnected the Sec linkage and did the Pri alone first.
Excellent video, I've got to get one of those AFM's.
You should! It’s a good one to leave in and reference.
@@JustMoparJoe I like the way you have it setup to be portable. Move it from one vehicle to another!
Great idea weather plays out a big difference.
Yes it does! Thanks John
@@JustMoparJoe welcome
This is an excellent How To Video ! Your style of delivery is great ! You convinced me ! So I decided to buy an AVS2 800 for my Magnum 402 70 Duster.
As a suggestion, do yourself a favor and get a hold of a Progression Distributor, and do a tuning video on it. Like the Edelbrock, talk about modern technology ! I've had one for two years now and it is fantastic ! I can't go back ! LOL
I have to say, your voice and manners are dead on the fellow's voice that you heard over the speakers at the Indy Nationals, back in the day.
Thanks Gary! I’m really digging the firecore performance distributors. They offer easy adjustment with two screws for mechanical advance and one screw for vacuum advance. I will play with the new tech soon!
Good deal ! All you need is your phone to adjust the Progression Dizzy .
You won't believe the time saving ! Thanks for the response.@@JustMoparJoe
I love it. It has to be the best way to tune a carb.
Thanks Mr. Rick.
I have one of those same AFR gauges. They sure are a great help for tuning. I've always liked those Edelbrock carbs. Also, if the owner ever wanted to install fuel injection then there is O2 bung already installed. Would be neat to see the fuel mileage. I bet it's pretty good. Great video.
Isn't too often you see the name Selph.
@@thomasselph9708 You're right about that. We may be related. lol.
Thanks Selph’s!
Great video as always!! Generally the people that don't like the Edelbrock (or insert any other brand here) carbs, don't know how to work them.
Thanks, Greg. I agree with You. Lots of carb gurus who don’t have a car running! 😂
Exactly. The Quadrajet bashers will take one that was designed by the engineers for a 455 in a Riviera and stick it on a 327 in a Nova with a 4 speed and then say it is crap when the car doesn't run right. Every carb has to be fine tuned to the situation.
4 minutes ago, perfect for me! Good morning JMJ!
Morning!
Love an edelbrock great carbs
Yes sir 👍🏼
@@JustMoparJoewhere could I pick up a book like the one you have?
@@SandMountainBallistics that was just the old edelbrock tuning manual. I’m sure it’s All over the net.
@@JustMoparJoe okay thanks! About to do some more tuning figured the book would help lol
I have considered getting two afr gauges so I could see each bank Joe - another good video !
Thanks brother. I just heard of a gauge that reads two sensors. That’d be trick
@JustMoparJoe is it a gauge or just the sensor loom?
Nice running motor you hooked him up with JMJ.
She runs great Joe love it ! What do you think about using carb spacers to improve performance? I’m putting an edelbrock 750 on top of a vintage edelbrock ch4b dual plane and thought about trying a 1-2” spacer . Putting it on my 440 .
That’s a good idea. You can see the Edelbrock spacer on this one. It was boiling fuel in the bowls before I added it. Now it starts so much better and has good response right off throttle at temperature. You can try a 4 hole spacer or an open spacer. They’re only $40 a piece and you can see what your combination likes the most.
thanks Joe!!! looks like I'll be getting an AFR meter too. big thumbs up and a sub from me mike
Thanks, Mike! This one has taught me a lot about carbs, in real time
Blipping the throttle and then letting the foot off causes a fuel dump into the manifold followed by the throttle plates cutting off the air supply. Thus, the rich condition.
The accelerator pump is typically set just for a quick start condition, where the throttle blades don’t close immediately after the fuel dump.
I set it just to where there’s no hesitation.
Thanks, Jeremy. I was expecting a bit more response like a holley, but it tuned out fine 😂
Perfect instructional video Joe. Doesn’t matter if an Eddie or other manufacturer
Could there be some limitations on the fuel pressure with mechanical fuel pump near end with the leaner readings
Very good point. I will add to the jetting to hopefully compensate. No real reason to go WOT with this one
Probably the best street carb in existence
An afr is definitely a great tuning aid.😎
Most definitely!
Good video. Getting it dialed in for sure. Curious to know what kind of gas mileage it ultimately gets when all is said & done. 😎.
Tuning is always fun. Something I’ve always enjoyed.
Good question! I will try it for 100 mile trip and see
@@JustMoparJoe that’ll be awesome!
I have that same AFR gauge but I have yet to try it on anything. Looking g forward to messing with it.
Thanks Cley. I’ve had good luck with this one in my barracuda and challenger.
Joe you should try the Gunson Color tune kit like I have for 14mm plugs . even David Vizard approves of the kit . there are youtube videos on how to use the kit especially from Gunson them selves. it's a fuel / air mixture testing kit .Did you also check the vaccum at idle and take that number and divid it by 2 ? after that you get the tuning kit for the carb and match up the colored springs number that matches you final number
Thanks for sharing. I always start with vacuum test for the step up springs. This car doesn’t have any mega cam, so the stock springs worked nicely.
Have the same afr gauge, just haven't used it yet. Been tuning for gas mileage without one and I've gotten good results but it'd be nice to get some numbers faster than waiting till the next fill up to check mpg. No plans to install it permanently on anything.
Great point! They don’t have the old car vibe, but give such good information. Thanks brother
So much easier to dial in a Holley Double Pumper...
Good Job, Joe
Thanks Kelly.
Cruising is constant throttle (high vacuum) regardless of rpm. Power is low vacuum heavy on the gas pedal. May need a heavier spring also to increase enrichment earlier when stepping on it. BTW, thanks for posting this, it's very informing.
Thanks, Kev! I did have to up secondary jets. Very fun process
@@JustMoparJoe I just installed an Elelbrock carb and will do an AFR tune. Thanks for posting.
Good job . Quite a bit over my head but interesting and I liked seeing the car run . Did I hear “ not breaking any traffic laws “ ?
Haha! That’s right. If you say it in your video, it has to be true!
It would be interesting to know exactly when the secondaries open.
I agree. You can hear a clear cut sound, but it’s probably 3,500 in 3rd gear over 65 mph.
joe loved the vidio brother, when installing your o2 sensor how far back from your collecter did you go also did u angle it up on the pipe ?
I went about 18” past the collector and on the top side of the pipe.
thanks my friend for the info keep up the good work .
I did this to my Chevy 350 with AFR 195 heads and a .500 lift roller cam. I was really surprised at how close my Edelbrock 1406 600 cfm actually is. I could just leave it alone. 🤷♂️🕺
Ok Joe, between you and Andy Wood
I am going to have to buy a Air/Fuel ratio gauge !
Go for it! Andy is the man. I’m just trying to outrun his ford with my old mopar! Hope to race this year
AFR here I come. Gotta learn about you! More stuff I don’t know anything about. Lol. I missed my calling.
Stan, it’s awesome. I use the one in my race car the same way, buts almost always at wide open.
@@JustMoparJoe probably would have helped to tune out the stumble my 318 had with the holly 600.
Smidge lean across the board. Try to hit low 12 to 1s on kickdown and higher 12s for cruise and wide open. Having timing all set up is key
Absolutely. I jetted up before she went back home.
Sad to see it leaving! I was getting attached :(
I have a pretty different way of setting this up to save yourself a lot of hassle. So you can tell me to go f myself, i wont be upset or anything. This is just a different technique to take advantage of everyone using AFR with carbs. After you get your timing set to its final and the car warm+o2 sensor warmed you start the carb tune just like you always do. Just do it in gear, parking brake isnt enough, gotta have someone holding the brake down for actual operating vacuum circumstances. Set the idle speed next followed with resetting those idle screws and back to the idle speed until you get it where you want in gear until your AFR is set for your desired spot (I prefer 13.7-14.5 so when you hit the squirter it snaps hard from that vacuum reaction). After that process is done like that those mixture charts are really accurate. I mean Bob's your uncle for the rest.
My big block has a monster hydraulic cam I use a 670 carb with for max gas mileage and when I keep my foot out of the floor I can hit 22 mpg... yes 22! All from that simple idle circuit set up. The rest of the tune is simple unless you want to keep that number dead on all the time. If so, well, ya gotta look at your primary and secondary transition circuits and air bleed sizing. Yes its a mess for street tuning to get it perfect 100% of the time but way worth it. Im pretty damned meticulous with my carb tuning so Ive pulled out all the press fit crap and tapped my own air bleed set I made from blanks. I even go so far as logging all the stepping with my secondaries locked out. After all that I worked the vacuum secondary circuit just with jet changes. The primary circuit not being absolutely dialed in can totally wreck your tune when the secondary opens up and goes 12-17 depending on load/rpm range that baffles even the most expert seasoned carb guys.
Thank you for Sharing. I absolutely agree there are many ways to tune a carb.
Never thought of switching the rod on the pump.
Give it a try. Most people go off of if it bogs or not
Great idea and you turn both each time correct?
Yes sir
@@JustMoparJoe I thought so.
Sounds like I heard a bit of detonation happening in the video under WOT. My biggest complaint about the AVS2, the transition circuit is pig rich. So, if dial in idle and cruise at mid to high 13's, leaving my long neighborhood, while barely on the throttle, it runs in the 9-10's afr. As soon as I get out onto the main road, it clears up to mid to high 13's. If I tune out the transition to be at mid to high 13's, then down the road, at light throttle, it's surging at high 17's.
Wow man. Thank you for sharing. They probably have it rich to work on anything. It’s fun to tune with the afr. Check out 318willrun. He ran the avs2 at the track this weekend.
It sounds like you need to use lighter step up springs so that the rods stay deeper in the jets.
This is directed toward Jason Rose.
Have you had problems with your wideband reading wrong? My autometer seems to have the o2 sensor going out. I wonder if the AEM is better.
This is the second sensor I bought. The first went out after I accidentally left power on to the gauge. No problem now
@@JustMoparJoe i think i may have done the same thing. Is it a Bosch sensor?
@@JustMoparJoe it appears yours uses the Bosch 4.9 sensor and my autometer which is more expensive uses a 4.2 sensor. I wish i would known this before I bought my autometer lol. The 4.9 more resistant to heat it appears.
Does the aem allow datalogging? Does it allow other inputs like rpm or tps?
You can datalog off of it with a microsquirt or other program. It does have a wire that connects to a program, but not sure if it can log, in itself.
seems like a dumb question but what should i be looking for a lower number or higher when on throttle
Check out the pinned comment. That guy shared some great info 👍🏼
Can AFR sensor be used in bolt on collecter . So i don't have to take headers off .
Absolutely! It’s better to have 18” of pipe behind it so it can get good signal
what was your initial timing, and temp. at idle ?
Initial was 22 degrees. Temp was probably 180. I have an FBO plate and box in this car.
Not bad
What mpgs did you get
I’ll have to check with the owner. I only drove it a hundred miles or so. He drove it from Arkansas to Houston!
I forget what motor is that in the car JMJ?
This is the 360 from my original build series. 9.4/1 ported heads, purple shaft cam that’s equivalent to a 340 magnum grind.
@@JustMoparJoe okay I just wasn't sure if that was it or not
first thing i do to an edelbrock is move the accelerator pump rod to the bottom hole.
Yes sir. No bog, no problem
👍🏻💯🇦🇺⛽️
Thanks brother
You were a bit mixed up in your use of the tuning table. Your rod changes were in the lean direction for both cruising and power which is not what the gauge indicated that you needed. You should have leaned your cruise mixture, which you did, but richened power mode by moving to the right on the chart. That's why your last WOT run was way too lean and the engine was detonating. I just went through the exact same tuning process on my 65 GTO with 406 smallblock Chevy using an Autometer AFR gauge. I ended up with I think #21 on the chart, meaning I had to buy another metering rod. I also played with the step up springs which made a big difference in transition.
Thank you for sharing! I did richen up the secondary’s after the video. Also the car went from a 60 degree day in Arkansas, instantly to a muggy 85 degrees in Houston. I ended up as you said, on the chart.
A 65 GTO with 406 small block Chevy......Your car, your rules , I guess.
I've never seen anyone use an afr on a carb. The afr sensors we use for injectors needs to be at an operating temp. They receive duty cycle voltage but you give yours full power I bet they have a resistor to compensate for duty cycle voltage. Car computers are fast. This system is the best I've ever seen for working a carb. It's just a breast in and of itself. Lol
Thanks Mike. This is actually the same sensor used in my FAST injection kit that’s on my challenger. The carb did take a few more steps to get perfect, but the video was dragging on and on. Lol
Definitely too lean at wide open, and I thought I heard it pinging also
Thanks Thomas. She was too lean for sure.
65 is cruising I believe? 🧐
I thought I heard spark knock but not sure.
Yes sir. Wide open was not happy.
Is that pinging at WOT????
Sure sounded like it.
No sir. I have to grease the speedometer cable where it goes into the cluster. It makes a racket at wide open
Lean is mean 😂😂😂
23 and 25 are to lean. I can hear ignition pinging! Don‘t destroy your engine.
Already jetted up
Great video but you’ve got some serious detonation going on 😳
Yea I jetted up after getting back from this. Thanks for watching
Your AEM gauge is way too erratic to make heads or tails out of. I went through three AEM gauges, all of which went dead within five miles, before switch to Autometer which gives a much more stable reading.
It’s the reading on camera. I use the same gauge in my barracuda with the Bosch wideband. It’s dead nuts accurate for me. Even with 110VP racing fuel.
you're turning a 1407 into a 1406
Legend has it that 14.7 is the ultimate sweet spot. Am I wrong?
That’s perfect level, but not the highest performance level.
I heard it was 12 to 1
Horn hoop on the steering wheel should be at the bottom . 🤦🏼
This wheel says the word “Coronet”across the center. I put it back on so the word would be legible. I do agree it’s cocked some after the alignment.
Too lean
Yes sir. At the end
Why is your vacuum advance on the center where you would hook to a pcv valve??
Illusion. I have the pcv hooked to the center large 3/8 port
Thank you.