Valmet M78: Finland's Hypothetical Squad Automatic Weapon
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The M78 was Valmet’s RPK-style heavy barreled squad support weapon pattern of the Finnish AK. It was initially developed as the M74 cavalry machine gun for Finnish military service, but never adopted. Instead, that experimental design would serve as the basis for the commercial export M78 (using the open notch sights of the M71, another design not adopted for military service). Had it been adopted by the Finnish military, it would have been chambered for 7.62x39mm (like the KvKK-62 squad automatic weapon that was used). For export, the company offered that caliber as well as 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm. Because these were imported before 1986, it was legal to manufacture them into transferrable machine guns, and this example is one that was so registered.
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I love that Ian is getting to the point in his career where he can say "If you wanna know more, I have a video on that!" for multiple different guns in the same video.
He's growing up so fast.
On a similar note, one of my favourite things has always been when he's looking at some super rare gun... then just pulls out ANOTHER super rare gun in the middle of the video just to make some sort of comparison.
@@BleedingUranium BUT WAIT! There's more!
He needs to start doing the handles in the top right though, it makes it easier for audiences to locate said video referenced and would ultimately net more views. Especially considering the age of the channel, many videos are now old and aren't shown in recommended by the algorithm making the audience have to manually search for a video.
I think we’re at the stage where no matter how obscure a weapon is, Ian can reference a previous video he’s done on it, or pull one out from underneath Morphy’s auction table
handsome looking rifle too!
I keep hoping he will find an MG131
But that unicorn be damn near extinct
@@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing that would be amazing: I think the Imperial War Museum has one, and if not, I bet the Pattern has!
One of these was used as a stand in for a RPK in the original Red Dawn
I so love red dawn...
M78 in 7.62x39. An M78/83 was used by Arnie in Commando and appeared briefly two years later in Predator. Might have been the same gun since it came from the same theatrical armory.
WOLVERINES!
Red dawn was awesome. We don’t talk about the Reboot however..
@@moritamikamikara3879 Wolverines!
"KalashiniFAL doesn't exist, it can't hurt you."
KalashiniFAL:
Its more like FALAK.
A FAK
I think FALashnikov has a little better flow 😜
@@icantdecideaname4806 "A FAK you from the Finns" :D
🤣🤣
Dark metal and dark wood combos like this one are just gorgeous.
Whatever the Finn's use to stain their wood combined with artic birch seriously results in some beautiful rifles, older M39's with the beautiful deep brown stock with those striped grain are just beautiful.
@Samantha Beaner - I think that’s more Swedish than Finnish - although I’m sure some Finns will disagree with me on that. 😄 (Varusteleka?)
@@tanstaafl1960 Nah, Finland is statistically more metal than sweden or norway, with something like 53 metal bands per 100,000 residents, Sweden "only" has like 37 per 100k in comparison :P
Also, just culturally I'll say the finns are A LOT more black metal than swedes. Source on that is that I'm a swede (and also 1/4th Finnish :P)
Finland: Do you want an AKM, G3, or FAL?
Valmet: *Y e s*
One of 2 legal Ak pattern guns in Canada. Also non restricted so can be used for hunting. This is a holy grail for Canadian gun owners.
Canadacucks
@@MidnightSvn Okay Boomer
Didn't Trudope arbitrarily make nearly all semiautomatic rifles illegal?
@@boomerisadog3899 not entirely, somehow the SKS is still fine. I sort of found it funny that my SKS escaped the ban, but a 12 gauge pump action shotgun I use in the bush got banned...
@@boomerisadog3899 only certain ones, mini 14, evo3 scorpion, ar10/15, vz858 and couple others. This one wasn't, and most likely won't. They had been given to our native communities for hunting hence them being the only ak not banned in canada. Well them and the Valmet Hunter. Our law has an exception in it that names them specifically from being banned.
“Hypothetical Squad” sounds like a show that would air on Cartoon Network or Adult Swim
More so Adult Swim than Cartoon Network.
Created by OneyNG and Zach Hadel
@@G-Mastah-Fash 6 inch tall perfect copies and tiny little characters
I’d watch that
Hypothetical Squad is one of my favorite indie bands. They're so underground that they might exist, but no one can be certain without further testing.
Beautiful weapon, manufactured right here in my hometown.
It's a shame that everyone associates Tourula with McDonalds nowadays instead of a world class rifle factory, lol.
Ja amisparkiksi 🥵
Voi jehna.
Please explain for us ignorant non fins
@@matthewhall1467 My quess is that the town (that used to have the rifle factory) has the only McDonald's within 100 miles (located in the countryside?)
@@matthewhall1467 I guess they mean that in the past city of Jyväskylä and nearby Tikkakoski were the centers of Finnish firearm manufacturing, in modern times all the factories have shut down and moved away from cities and Tourula is a region of Jyväskylä that had a VKT factory (Government rifle factory) but it's now known because it has the only drive thru McDonalds in the city and a known hangout spot for adolescent people AFAIK.
Being able to import a firearm, convert it to full auto and not get your family and dog shot. Ah what a time to be alive..
💀💀
Oof
Janet Reno wants to know your location!! 😄
The Finns have such good looking guns.
Just look at KvKK and call it good looking.. I tell you need some hard drugs to think it's good looking
@@ReijoRitari I think its good looking! altough i am on buprenorphine
@@ReijoRitari It's pretty neat looking melee weapon :) One thing always made me wonder... Why would a spear have pistol grip?
@@Salesman9001 More power to the thrust, of course!
Actually even The modernized versions of the Finnish RK still use a milled receiver.
Yeah, the Finn's decided that a stamped receiver wasn't durable enough.
The RK62s with stamped receivers are kept in storage, because otherwise Finnish conscripts would abuse the hell out of them.
Promag makes a magazine for .308 Galils that with a bit of careful dremel action can be made to work in these rifles. I know because I have a valmet Petra/hunter which uses the same mags as this m78 as it is actually based of the m78 receiver. No bullet setback or feeding issues whatsoever in the 2 mags that I modified to fit
Now i know why they've chosen the name "Valmet" for a finish ex - special operator in Jormungand :D
Jormungand is so fucking good man.
I went to watch Black lagoon cus I got told that it was like Jormungand
I just got left feeling "Why didn't Jormungand get three seasons"
@@moritamikamikara3879 yeah, that's true, i wish they did. Watched it twice, sadly, not many things like this are made, as far as i know: Ergo Proxy and Black Lagoon are the closest you can get. Looking forward to check Black Lagoon myself, those Beretta 92FS are awesome haha
@@moritamikamikara3879 there's quite a few shows that feel like they got cut off short, but they're also really good and don't drag on. I thought Black Lagoon was more of a Bebop show.
@@moritamikamikara3879 Gangsta makes me thing of those two aswell.
Such a shame that all the Valmets, excluding the Petra, are so scarce even in Finland
Finn here, it really is a great shame.
I'm not even into "military" style rifles but Valmets are so eye catching. The one featured really is a gorgeous example. That wood grain on the stock and handguard is so nicely and the internals have such a high quality level of fit and finish.
Petras, or Valmet Hunters, are still pretty common. You regularly come across them on elk hunts (that's moose for the Yanks).
@@peabase So what are American Elks? 😁
@@jeffreyroot6300 Wapitis. Your first settlers, being from Britain, didn't know what a real elk looked like. They called the first large animal with antlers that they encountered "elk". When they came across the real thing, they had to think of something else.
I was kinda hoping for a "And tomorrow we'll take it out to the range for some firing." Pretty cool weapon. I like . 308, did he mention the mag capacity? Looks like 20-25 rounds.
The .308 has a mag capacity of 20 rounds, if i remember correctly.
im gonna go with 20. looks about the size of the 20 rn ar10 mags.
To me the mag looks slightly longer than the 20 round one for a G3, so possibly a bit over 20 rounds, but purely speculation on my part.
20 rnds
The mag is patterned from G3/FAL. So it's 20.
“Today we are going to look at this flint Knapped spear from the Neolithic. It was used by the proto-indo-european army.”
"The proof marks indicate it was made by Gronk, son of Gruik, who was also a weaponsmith."
Forgotten weapons goes WAAYYY back in time
@@jehoiakimelidoronila5450 Actually not a bad idea. For example: the classic Biblical sling (as in David and Goliath) has made a bit of a comeback on those parts. Anything you can put in your pocket and that (with practice) will effectively hurl a baseball-sized rock at lethal velocities a hundred metres or more, is NOT to be trifled with. Also, you can pick up the ammo just about anywhere....
Then, there is the entire history and development of firearms from the crudest match / fire-lock, through the wheel-lock and the snaphaunce. The invention of rifling. All the wild and whacky breech-loading efforts.
There have been a few episodes on artillery, but that stuff is VERY expensive to feed and makes a mess of the backstop at the local club range.
Grenades? From very dubious beginnings to the modern day, there have been some doozies. The variety of improvised and "factory -made" rifle grenades that appeared just during WW1, is amazing.
Then, there are the sundry "emergency" developments, like the WW2 British Northover Projector. And that is just a tiny part of WW2 in Europe. The Japanese came up with some "interesting" twists, as well.
And who knows what "forgotten" (and likely eminently forgettable) goodies will arise form the current unpleasantness in Ukraine?
_Finnish Steel._
Schwarzenegger used this weapon in the movie Commando (1985).
Suomi mentioned, torille. Again.
@markedbythezone
Yep. The gun had some unique features for example the rifle stock was sniper versio and i think the caliber was 7.62
Used as well in The Negotiator, 1998.
There were few Valmet AKs in the original "Red Dawn" movie too + one Jati Matic SMG 🙂
And Sylvester Stallone used Jatimatic SMG in 'Cobra' 😎. I think it was even in the cover artwork of the movie with a laser sight
@@heikkisallinen9012 yes, cool design, interesting gun to shoot too.
Ah, the gun Arnie used to mow down a bunch of people at the end of Commando.
Before he obtained the M60, that is.
Thinking about a "uniquely Finnish bipod" immediately conjured the image of a ski-footed one.
Whoo, love to see arms from my nation on Forgotten Weapons! Especially stuff like this that I haven't heard about before.
Wow, I never knew this gun existed. Thanks for the excellent video once again Ian!
The 7.62x39mm one they used in movies to substitute for the RPK was so much cooler than the .308 version. I kinda liked the thumbhole stock and scope configuration on the full auto lower, like a marksman rifle and SAW in one package.
Valmet (State Metalworks): Can I have an AK for national defense purposes
Soviet Union: Sure, you're neutral and a state owned company
Valmet: *Actually commercializes the AK and sells variants for profit like a boss*
This is the gun Schwarzie uses in Commando.
I found one in a gun shop here and bought it immediately. It was part of an estate collection that was being sold on commission. Very smooth action, well made weapon. Came with only one magazine. It is unfired.
Price?
@@jeramyw When I bought it, about ten years ago, I paid $1500 for it.
@@mohawkdriver4155 $1500!? I would've bought it immediately too. I would've done anything to get it.
Unfired?
What's wrong with you?!?
Baby Valmet is screaming "use me"!!!
@@GrumpyGremlin. if you insist, then yes. No gun still in safe working order should be left alone and unfired!
4:43 I was trained to hold the thin horizontal part of the stock with my non-firing hand 😊
"Phuukko." One of the better ones I've heard.
That walnut furniture is gorgeous.
Damn, this is a nice looking gun.
Have you ever come across with Valmet Hunter M88 (known as Valmet Petra in Finland)? Video about that would be very interesting to see. Kalashnikov for hunting.
To me at least, Valmet m88 looks a lot like M1 carbine.
Arm&gun has a video on it
They came in 223,243,308 and 30 06..I would love one in 243 of 30 06 but there pretty rare
@@Deadtileyedie technically you could still import one from Finland, as they aren't scarce at all in Finlannd, and they're not limited by the 922r thanks to their features. It 'd just be a big hassle, and require contacting a Finnish firearms export-authorised company on top of what you'd have to do in the US.
@@XoravaX that's awesome had no clue
I love the sights and the carrying handle adds a lot to the aesthetics, would love to own one one day
Always interesting to see what GJ comes up with next. This one is particularly interesting . Thanks Ian.
Last knight of Mannerheim cross died yesterday
Last? You mean all of them are went to Valhalla?
@@subarunatsuki4145 Wrong mythology.
@@subarunatsuki4145 *Tuonela.
@@subarunatsuki4145 Manan maja*
Ei perkele, tuota en tiennytkään. Parin kymmenen vuoden päästä kaikki veteraanit tulee olemaan kuolleita, sääli
That is WAY too funny, I was at a gun show last weekend and someone was selling one of these as a transferable machine gun
the finns combined a dragunov, fal, rpk and ak and said: "this is it"
I do like the clip that holds the bipod legs up and out of the way.
A simple and elegant design
I'm just here to feed the algorithm.
Ian has forgotten weapons most mankind has never even heard of.
That gun in 7,62*39 would have been a much better choice for the squad automatic weapon for Finland than kvkk.
Why does the wood always look so much better on a Valmet then the other AKs?
Looks like a Finnish Frankenstein between an AK and an FAL.
awesome video! thank you mate
The wood grain on the stock is like something out of a Rolls Royce.
This is a fine rifle and while i can't afford to purchase one its nice to know that at least a few people have the means to enjoy owning/shooting one of the best Kalashnikov variants in the world. Great video.
I love it when he says he has more review he looks happy when he says it
Schwarzenegger used one in his mid 80's film "Commando"
Although doesn’t look it , reminds me of my squad auto , the HK11 based on the G3A3 .
Belt or mag fed with change out barrels .
When they become forgotten , make a video lesson on those.
Sounds like the HK21E, on which he did a video a couple of weeks back:
czcams.com/video/kZWtGiESQ4s/video.html
@@yortex212 thank you ! Exactly what I was looking for !
Thank you , Ian .
The stamped receiver Rk went for field trials for the FDF and was found unsatisfactory in the abuse of Finnish conscripts. I served as pretty much every man in Finland and I have never shot a stamped receiver Rk-62 in my life nor seen one for that matter except in pics. Also field training in marksmanship would have been different with the rear notch sights compared to peep sights of the milled receiver Rk that had already been in service for a long time. The current FDF rifles are the standard Rk-62 milled with the "hideous but bomb proof" tubular stock, the Rk-95 which is a heavier barreled concept with a very nice folding stock and a different sight arrangement and a different flash hider as well there are rk-62 M2 and M3 which are modernized versions of the venerable rifle including an adjustable tubular stocks and different attachments arrangements. They use a an Aimpint Micro2 on them as standard. All are milled receiver rifles.
Some military police units still had them in 2010's. Most of the time stocks were removed as folding mechanisms on them are pure cancer (10x or more force required vs type 56 folding stock and they were still wobbly) and MPs don't really need or want long rifles for their stuff.
I think it was good decision to stick with milled guns as those stamped ones were worse than Chinese AKs.
I carried a stamped-receiver RK62 in '86 - '87. The sights were peep sights and no folding stocks either. Nothing wrong with them as far as I could tell, but us "spool arses" we weren't quite as heavy-handed with them as the "grass drills".
@@peabase I know there were some but I never saw one.. Like Ian here explained some were taken into use out of a batch but our glorious FDF decided they were not good enough.
@@Salesman9001 I used to serve as a vice guard chief back in -96 in Helsinki.. When we went on patrol I always chose the 9mm FN pistol since I hated the folding mech and I just wanted to get some sleep while my platoon's MP's did the driving.. They always woke me up though when at a spot so no harm done.. :D
I love those old Rk-62, used 3 different milled ones due to assignments between units but all hit exactly where desired, while being so beaten that none of them could maintain normal full-auto. Fond memories of mag-dumping wooden blanks 1 per second and then cleaning the rifle like it had been in a ditch for a week...
I really wish Ian knows just how much we all really love and appreciate the content he puts out. I'm sure it is not easy making a video every day but one video every day really makes everyone's day just a little bit better.
Apparently Valmet M76, M72 and M78 guns were used in filming of the red dawn :-o
Torille! :-D
One of my favorite rifles in my collection.
I had one of these in .223 and it was quite nice!
What a beautiful machine!
I cant even begin to imagine how much you've taught me. Man, what a blessing this channel is. Doubt id learn as much from "Oo big gun we shoot stoopid target yaaaaay" channels.
We found the video rather relaxing. Cheers,
That stock-receiver cut is weird and NICE!
Even when sold new, Valnet brought in very few extra mags for this model.
Same gun used in Red Dawn 1984, but in 7.62x39.
Since I’m from Oklahoma I found it interesting that this was marked D’Ville or O’Ville Oklahoma. I’ve never heard of a town named either of those things. Even googling it I can’t find anything but searching “Fleming Firearms” comes up with a Tulsa world article from last year about the owner being convicted of “conspiracy to unlawfully register machine guns and silencers”. So that’s neat.
If you look more closely at 7:10, the marking says : "FLEMING FIREARMS C'VILLE OK K134" - Fleming Firearms is in Collinsville, OK.
He's beat the atf before, and it would appear they've been gunning for him. Pun intended.
tfw just realized the sad moment of how I never lived the era of Valmet producing these different guns. None of the RK rifles are not manufactured anymore.
#MakeFinlandGreatAgain
a friend has a semi 308 version he bought many years ago. it has a beautiful walnut stock and it shoots very accurately.
B
Mid to late 80's I tried to order a M78 in 7.62 X 39. They wouldn't even order it because of the caliber.
Such a shame. Today ammo and mags are plenty and cheap, unlike .223 and .308 Valmet mags.
I would love even a semiauto version of this.
I love how the Finns/Finnish people always 1UP the Russians on their own creations. Gotta love it since it's one of my neighbour countries. The Russians may have the big army, but we all know what happened when they tried to invade Finland (and succeeded at a HEAVY price), yet they are making their own AK's that are superior to theirs. Well, they did, I don't know about these days.
As far as I know the RK pattern rifles are still in use today and honestly it was the case that quality control during the Soviet Union was rather iffy, also we Finns got limited resources (there's more people in St. Petersburg alone then in whole of Finland IIRC) so we can't have quantity so we work with quality instead. As for using Soviet/Russian products guess who were our largest trading partners during the Cold War (and still are a significant trading partner today).
Yeah, RK pattern is still in use, even some really old ones that have been kept well are in service. A few years a go FDF did some research on the topic of assault rifles and updating to ARX by Beretta was considered. Then, we just had the good old "nah, these RK62s are still pretty damn good, might as well just modernize them" and thus, we are now adopting the RK62M which is just basically RK62 with some rails and so on. I also read a rumor that Sako is designing a new assault rifle for FDF, but theres nothing certain about that.
@@p4nnus RK62M should be good for couple decades longer (i personally speculate that FDF will be still using it in year 3000, while everybody else has plasma rifles and laser cannons), but Sako designing a new DMR for FDF currently.
@@p4nnus My unit had one made in 62 with pre-production furniture and I think serial number was 400 or 600 something. It was in very good condition after 50 years of hard use by 18 year old conscripts.
@@Juicewski2 nah, ofcourse it would be plasma firing but with as much RK62 parts the can still re-use :D so it would actually look like an RK62...
My friend bought the last one at b&b sales in 1984. I bought the the last folding stock m76.
I'm not convinced that Ian and The Lock Picking Lawyer are two different people.
😂🤣😎
Its a dragunov!
No! Its an RPK!
No! Its a Valmet!
NO... Its basically all of them! At least externally
oh my god it's beautiful, just the aesthetic of that is awesome, on par with the Galatz in looks for me
The term "cavalry machine gun" was a nickname during the development of the type, it was never an official type name. No cavalry in Finland that time... but the term stuck.
No mechanized scouts?
Ratsuväkikonekivääri? Now that’s a mouthful. :D
That indeed was just the working name of a FDF armoury prototype series of which just 5 were made (the working name of the project was "ratsuväen konekivääri m/74"), which was different from this Valmet development. It was built on a used milled RK 62 receiver, and the sights installed on top of the gas tube were KVKK 62 sights. It had a different conical muzzle device, and a long barrel with KVKK 62 bipod. It also had wooden furniture because wood is easier to use on prototypes than plastic (which at the time you would have to make casting moulds for, before you could produce the parts).
I like the Finnish on the gun. Thanks, I’ll be here all night.
That wood handguard and stock makes it look like an unique finnish ak
In the movie "Commando", Arnold Schwarzenegger used a Valmet 78/83, which is a variation with a synthetic thumbhole stock and chambered in 7.62x39.
See this link for pics:
www.imfdb.org/wiki/Commando#Valmet_M78.2F83
Arnold approves.
Thanks mate
I really like the look of this gun
Didn't Arnold Schwarzenegger use one of these in Commando, albeit with a thumbhole stock and curved mags?
Yep
Did some digging and you're right. The *Valmet M78/83* to be specific.
You can see faded markings on the receiver: VALMET Made in Finland
www.imfdb.org/images/b/bf/Commando_933.jpg
The one Arnie wields also has the more modern synthetic handguard that's somewhat similar to the ones used in most FDF RK 62s
www.imfdb.org/images/f/f4/Commando_101.jpg
He did use it in commando,
RPKs in movies are often M78, M78/83.
1 weapon I had no idea we had, or even prototyped.
This thing looks beastly
I remember when Hollywood used these in the place of actual RPK's.
Speaking about the huge gamut of Valmet commercial offerings - you should see what the Molot company output the last 10 years! Dozens of models, half based on the RPK, 30% more essentially RPK (in all barrel lengths and options) and yet half a dozen more original designs. This happened until they were restructured and the entire C-suite fired (reputedly because of this outpouring of models). You can still see it on their website.
Truth to be told though, I think it is Molot (Vyatskie Polyany) who gave the Russian civilian gun market a jolt, and forced the newly established Kalashnikov Concern to compete, show their work, and face the customer. Even despite Molot's "feature creep", they were literally the first gun manufacturer over here who did PR work, nice promo videos, and hours-long CZcams Q&A and feedback sessions, did proper SMM and worked with forums, and did rudimentary focus group tests with their new ideas. It was a weird feeling, seeing a manufacturer reacting to customer demands for the first time.
The stamped RK76 didn't replace the RK62, because the RK76 didn't last as long in conscript service. Like the AKM has 20k round limit, before it starts to break up, Finnish Defence Forces didn't like the shorter service life of an stamped RK76. The ones that were made, are in a bunker somewhere wating a war to break out. And apparently there is readiness to manufacture RK76's in a war time.
“Oh my god guys look, there is a Valmet in my helmet.”
Good looking gun
pretty sure this bad boy is capable of some crazy grouping
The aperture sight on an RK-62 is okay, but a notch sight would be more useful. No need for flip up night sight if the standard sight is good enough. The aperture gets really dark really fast when the light dims, and it's dark in Finland for 3/4 of the year.
"You see son when a FAL and AK love each other very very much a M78 is born"
The barrel seems bent, i can't unsee it
first prototypes of RPK had milled receiver as well
Fascinating
I had one back in the 80's. Traded it for a for a fourwheel drive truck.
Have you regretted trading it?
@@Juicewski2 No. The truck made me money.
Nice looking gun, but surprised they went for a propitiatory mag if they were after export sales: You'd think a FAL or G3 mag would be a major selling point, especially for smaller militaries who may want to integrate it with their existing hardware.
What a beauty
Looks like the FAL and RPK had a child.
these Finnish AKs are by far the most beautiful ones :)
That thing looks cool. Like an FAL and an RPK had a baby.
It even has the bayonet spot.
Never knew about this gun, but it looks so sexy. Like an AK+FAL had a baby. Something just in it that pleases my eye a lot, not only because I'm Finnish but yeah...
Looks like the love child of an FAL and AK
Oh, I just watched a video about this from Arm&Gun!