NEW Old World Battle Report - Brettonia vs Warriors of Chaos (Ep 2)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Johnny Payne returns for the release of The Old World! Together Luka and John play 2,000 points of Bretonnia trying to push out a tribe of Warriors of Chaos that have made themselves a nice little home on Bretonnia's northern shore.
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A big "thank you" goes out to Games Workshop for sending us free models and books for their games, some of which may be included in this video.
A note with Lance formation, you're allowed to remove casualties from the centre rather than the edges. So essentially you're allowed to keep your "fighting rank" full as long as possible
only having circle bases was the one big thing that was making me hesitant about trying old world. the trays are hella cool and might just be the answer I needed
They are cool and don't burn a hole in my wallet. Will definitely buy those soon.
But just in case: Cardboard, a few layers with glue, covered with adhesive tape is quite easy to craft :)
@11:20
As a lone Infantry character, the Daemon Prince actually is a skirmisher. Any lone character that is infantry or cavalry (regardless of subtype, such as light, heavy, or monstrous), is a skirmisher.
This is true! I believe I mention this in the video! Figured it out after lunch 😅
This game looks super fun. I come from a 40k background and it looks good because there aren't 1000 rerolls and a ton of gigantic models running around obliterating the table (with the exception of the 1 giant of course =D)
You may like 30k, it plays a lot like old 30k which doesn't have a bunch of rerolls there is some giant models but it's not as bad as 40k
40K is Cancer
@@vineyarddaze Wasn't always that way. It's the players that get to extreme and mess the game up. Then again rules not designed to sell models would help
@@Rusty_Shackleford137 bruh the rules are hot garbage that they never get right and are purely designed for profits. CANCER
Man I always have loved Bretonnians, great to see them on the table
"hippo" is just latin for "horse". "Hippopotamus" means "river horse" for example. A griffin is eagle/lion, hippogriff is eagle/horse.
equus is latin for horse
Hippo is greek for horse. Latin took hippopotamus from greek
Greek not Latin but yes
Whoops yeah. Greek not Latin.
Daemon Prince was unjustly slain there
1) Skirmisher - you can't flank a skirmisher
2) Challenge - other models can't direct attacks against them
Daemon prince isn't skirmisher. Only single model infantry (and cav?) Are
yeh in deployment luka specifically says prince is not a skirmisher, it's why putting him backwards worked
the challenge thing has always been weird for single model monsters, don't know how this edition deals with it, but i'd guess you can still attack it
Nevermind! I kept watching (55:30) and apparently they catch it later that the prince IS in fact monstrous infantry, not a monster. So he does have skirmisher. My bad!@@bohort
and he should have only been attacked by one person AND he forgot his stomps.@@schlatta-dirtydeeds9351
I was wandering with that fight. They missed a few rules there
That's a clever way to remember the new break tests. Gonna have to adopt that to my games.
First combat, knigts vs. marauders. Did you forget to attack with your ponies?
😢 ponies are the real damage dealers
yes... yes they did... very frustrating
and the 2nd
Fail
veteran bret player here ( istarted in 5th)
i thought you were going for a feint in turn 1, where you deploy with your slow stuff (left flank) facing his fast stuff, but then gallop your fast stuff(right flank) over to the left so that your whole army on turn 2 would be facing the half of his that moves fast (giant/knights) and leave his slower moving flank out of the fight.
Honestly with bretonia, i firmly believe that it is in the momevnet phase you win and loose most battles.
LOVE the Leadership bracket for CR. Best way ive seen it explained after watching 5 bat reps
you missed the horses attacks in some charges
We ALL know the Bretonnian warhorse always does more damage than their rider! Savage beasts!
We forgot our horse attacks for most of 8th
You misspelled most 😂
It’s normal
The very first attack ...
Great idea to show the circle bases being used to inspire people!
I think the Lady sure blessed those bret dice. Nice game, thanks lads.
Yeas ! More old world content .
@15:24 "No matter how many models are under the little hole, you only ever pick one"
In case anyone was wondering about templates, this isn't true. The core rulebook has an example on page 224 where 4 models are hit automatically, from a stone thrower targeting the center of a unit with an even number of ranks and even number of files.
This was such a fun battle to watch - looking forward to a rematch!
Loving the old world content! Especially with fun players like John and Luka. Keep it coming please :) (also the map campaign thing in the future sounds cool too!)
Great game. Shame to see the Daemon prince robbed so savagely but these things happen
It’s true! Though it helped me learn a lot on the Daemon Prince this edition, next time will be ideally deadly!
Any failure where you learn is never a failure!@@lukapavicevic335
Trebutchet and other small templates cover max. 13 models instead of max. 9 that you are implying for 25 mm bases. It is because bases are in mm and template is in inches. 3 inches is 76.2 mm, but width of 3 bases is 75 mm so template clips 0,6 mm over in each direction (flanks and ranks). So if you have 5x5 unit with 25 mm bases and you hit center, 13 models are hit, not 9.
@lukapavicevic335 1:10:52 the Maruaders would have had to stop on the building (pg156 BRB 'Unable to move') and then the knights would have had to stop after catching up to them (pg157 BRB 'Catching the Curs!' even though its a short distance. They then could have done a reform check.
Really big mistake for this battle (early into a new edition so not a big deal) which cost the WoC an extra unit being lost for no reason.
One minor note at about the @1:19:00 mark: all Grail Knights can issue challenges. There was no need to sacrifice the champion (I think, these rules are new to me as well).
Also, because I feel like this would have changed how the game went by a lot. I know this battle report was recorded before the Old World FAQ happened so it wouldn't be as knowable but when you Overrun you can attempt to reform at the end of the Overrun on a LD check.
Also, I don't think units are allowed to overrun twice in a turn so the questing knights failing to restrain shouldn't have mattered.
when it comes to turning and wheeling- note it depends on the stats of the model as to which is best
for example a dwarf unit of 20 warriors has 3 movement, so a turn 90 degree will cost you less than 1 inch in movement, but a wheel will cost you all of it probably
The round to square movement trays are so great for rotating and ranking I'm defaulting to that. I even saw some magnetized singles that essentially create movement trays on the fly. Not only that, some are flexible, so will even look natural on slopes. Why not base everything so it can be used across mass-combat, skirmish and role-play type games.
Looove John's Sarcasm :)
On the template measurement, it's 3 inch template and the bases are 25mm, just less than an inch, so a direct hit would nail on in center plus all models around plus an extra 4 on the outside. So 12 on 4+
The Bretonnian war horses should also attack with their hooves :D
Wouldn’t the circle trays cause issues with templates since the bases are not the correct size?
I thought flying units in this edition can never be march blocked (Daemon Prince turn 2).
This is also true! Figured this out after the game 😅
It's not MESBG but it'll do. ;)
Hey guys, thanks for the advertising. I bought myself a butt load.
My one request is to make circle to square converters / trays the larger oval bases (75 x 42mm) please! I'm not the only one who has some Chaos Knights they don't want to rebase. Is that in the works?
Love the content as well been learning buttloads about the game.
Damn men at arms. You had one job.
hot damn those brettonians looked so good! loved these armies lets go OLD WORLD
When targeting the champion, declare a challenge. Always get the overkill.
great report thanks
22:51 Malazan reference spotted
The guest forgot the horse attacks some times
Units can pile in on challenges against a single model unit? That seems strange.
I don't think this is accurate, but I've not got my book yet...
Unless the Grail Knights have a special rule that allows it, no they cannot. I have my rulebook and it's page 211 in the Old World Rulebook.
Seems they decided on the challenge late and didn't reset the game state
Probably not, I officially concede
I’m not a big fan of the Daemon Prince being allowed to hide in challenges! So we allowed the Grail Knights to pile in on him. The Daemon Prince would of course welcome all combatants!
Awesome. So awesome.
I'm really enjoying the combat resolution mechanics; last time my Beastmen fought Brettonians they took the knee then three units of Realm and a unit of Grail took four of my units off the table. It looks like the Brettonians have the potential but it's not automatic like in prior editions.
In the brettonian lance. Aren’t banners supposed to be the first model now not the champion?
Any idea if there will be some Wood Elves games in the neat future? I'd like to see if their army is as capable of combined arms as it looks, or if it's really just going to be Oops! All Bows!
Soon!! So many armies to try and cover😅
Nice picked up the movement tray stl file. My Empire is back on the March
Great battle report. As a Bretonnian player since the orange hardback book I am glad to see that they are back! I have already ordered some of your movement trays. Do the new GW 30 x 60 bases have the slots cut for the tabs under the horses?
Yes! They do, says Steve!
"We'll Parcour charge" ^^
Awesome! Really excited for TOW
I'm your biggest fan? Was that a reference from The Room? 😂
Doesn't the daemon Prince already have regeneration without the magic item?
Yes but loses it against magic attacks. So doubling down actually did have a corner case of usefulness... But he forgot he had it against the Grails.
@@Engra_ I don't think it works that way. Warpspawned (or whatever it is called) would still apply to the Regeneration from the crown.
Ah. Then yeah. Not a great item for him.
I realised that after I picked the item! I believe I put the points elsewhere into minor upgrades that didn’t do much!
Yay Old World content!!
That poor demon prince got cheated
Is it possible to use a Mega-gargant as a Chaos Giant model and do you guys sell a movement tray converter that would be suitable for it?
does the lance formation make wheeling a super low movement cost, 'cos it's just the first guy, or high cost 'cos the back ranks move way further?
Its the corner of the second rank, oddly enough, so its slightly more efficient but not as bad as if it was just the front guy
So great weapons aren’t always strike last? There just int 1? That makes a big difference
Will there be converters for single models like the giant, daemon prince. Wondering what to do about my mutilith vortex beast!
Yes. We’re working on those now.
1:16:39 can a unit kill a champion that had fight in challange? shouldnt the champion be still alive and two wounds into the unit count as one as there were only one wound other than the champion at the moment?
As pointed out by Steve (after I wrote this initially), Hippogryph is half horse half eagle and Griffon is Half Lion Half Eagle, there isn't any hippo in there.
Yep hippo is latin for horse
@@idiotproofdalek Hippo meaning horse is from ancient greek.
Very nice !
"the giant has been upgraded to a diaper"
I feel like an idiot for asking, but where do you find the point values for Warriors of Chaos? Others have said I need to check out spoiler channels for screenshots.
Cool as always 👍
The Bret player needs to banish those dice to oblivion
do I have to put all my circular based models onto movement trays?
Good lord, flail supremacy. Flails are just so good.
Love the battle, can you tell me where the battleboard you use came from?
Custom made by Green Leaf Terrain!
Good Video.
I have a question.
We Know that a Unit can adopt only Formation in his Special Rule.
Now.
We Know that a Close Order Formation is composed of 2 or MORE model in Ranks and Files.
Well.
Dragon Ogre can only adopt Close Order, but if i want i can also purchase just one 1 Dragon Ogre.
So what Formation will the Dragon Ogre have?
I Remember that He is not a Chariot, he is not a Monster, he is not a Character...
Luka... the GOAT of TOW batreps already.
At 1:19:30 when the Grail Knights are fighting the Demon Prince. You decide to make it a challenge. Are the rest of the Grail Knights allowed to fight into the challenge, and if so where is that in the rules. Thank you in advance. Just trying to get all the rules down.
Sorry! We were kind of messing around, normally the extra Grail Knights would not be able to attack into the challenge. The Grail Knights have a rule where they can all issue and must accept challenges and I didn’t want to manipulate that mechanic to keep the Daemon Prince alive. That would not become a Daemon Prince of Khorne, so of course he would issue a challenge to all of the Grail Knights! 😅
Isnt it a problem that the circles are 32mm and the squares are 30mm?
It makes the movement trays slightly larger than they should.
@@miniwargaming a 5 wide unit would only be 10mm wider. When you're comparing 150 to 160mm, it's really not that big a deal.
@@Mooglewut it is if you cant do a charge because the 160mm wiede unit is blocking you while you could pass the 150mm unit.
@@bremer1701 certainly, in a competitive setting, yes, these should be disallowed. Is it a problem in general for casual play at an LGS? no.
@@bremer1701If you’re using those movement trays knowing they are 10mm wider and you stop your opponent from making the charge due to that extra width blocking the charge then the problem is not the movement tray.
In 8th, you can't direct attacks from a unit into a challenge??
You can't in tow either.
It’s true! HOWEVER, it’s a rule I’ve never enjoyed for single models. Hiding in challenges does not become a Daemon Prince of Khorne. It would of course welcome all combatants!
@@lukapavicevic335 Yeah, same with a Lord on Monster. But I think you need a counter, especially with how initiative works. A lord may never get hit back.
Just checked. Trebuchet has 72" range. That is a tiny little bit less then 120 ;)
Also you can also only re-roll each die one time.
18:21 ähm hello? Horse attacks?
21:40 and you have two ranks.... but forgetting that at least equalizes the horse attacks you forgot again
Doesn’t matter, 72 is more than enough to reach anywhere on the table
@@Stonehorn well you cant shoot diagonaly over the entire table with 72" :D
@@bremer1701 sorry, I meant he could reach everything on the table, but you are absolutely correct
Grail Knight vs Daemon combat seems odd.
Can the whole unit attack while in a challenge?
You lose your regen but took an item that would still allow it.
You forgot your extra arm.
Unit cannot all attack in a challenge. Luka could have just kept challenging and killing single guys if he wanted to.
I don't think the crown would have gotten around the Warpspawned rule (or whatever it is called), but I don't have the wording of that item in front of me.
The crown would not have worked! I realised this shortly after the game started and reallocated those points elsewhere! Also, I may have forgotten the extra arm 😅
Forgot the warhorse attacks.
John sounds like Nate Bargatze to me.
59:34 to bad peasant banners don't give out extra victory points.
Knight with horse should attack in return on 31 minute before removing from combat.
I thought if you challenge a champion you don’t make attacks with the rest of the squad?
It’s true! However I’m not a big fan of that interaction with models such as monsters hiding in Challenges, they are of course bold enough to welcome all combatants!
nice battle report, can you confirm if old world rulebook has any scenarios/missions which are objective based?, more in the style of 10th edition 40k
There is one where you have to control a middle tower, other than that I'm not sure
The final mission awards extra VP for controlling an objective terrain piece in the middle of the board! However you and your friends can always play AoS missions in Old World games if you guys prefer fighting over objectives on the battlefield!
first combat, you missed the attack from the horses. would problebly made some difference to the combat result
Isnt the damel/prophetess on warhorse on a 25x50 not 30x60
She can also go on a bretonian warhorse, which is 30x60. I assume she would need to be on a bretonian one or the unit would not be able to use the re-roll 1s when charging.
You cannot march and reform, only wheel
no more horse attacks? and that cavalry 3+ armor is kinda hard for brets
Haven't play tested it yet, but it seems like it balances against the offensive buffs bret cav got (striking first on the charge, disrupting ranks on first charge, longer and more consistent charge rolls, counter charging certain units). So they're a little more "glass cannon" than previous editions.
The nerf to cav armor also isn't unique to bretonnia, so at least they got some buffs to their offense to offset compared to, say, empire or HE heavy cav.
did you guys just ignore all the warhorse attacks lol
Second fight too, I think.
i cant seem to see where a lone character gains Skirmishes special rule... anyone points to the page number please :)
I can’t remember the page number atm, but it references all forms of “Infantry and Cavalry” characters on their own gain Skirmishers. Just to clean up their movement and give them some flexibility.
I keep trying to watch this and you guys keep deleting it.
Pls don't delete
There was an error with the first one we posted. We shouldn’t have to delete this one.
How do you play that the round bases are too big? Are they actually ranks of 4 or are you playing them as ranks of 5?
Just hand wave the extra size. It’s not too much most of the time but you’ll want stackable 32 converters in more serious games or rebase them.
The extra width makes no difference whatsoever!
How the heck do I get a cool table like that!
Green Leaf Terrain!
this is when high school math comes into play with trigonometry to calculate the wheel manoeuvres lol
basically so for a 45-degree wheel
2πRadius x(45/360) = amount of movement used
The radius is the first row of models who are on 25mm bases so you can easily work it out...but...oh that's right your are using circular bases bwahaha good look with that🤪
I see the the chaos warriors worshipping Khorne as the wolf father 🐺.
The intrecens of the rules are fusenaiting
Bad deployment on the Bretonnia side. You don’t want to bunch up your cavalry, and you want your peasants somewhere they can draw charges so cavalry can flank them.
Especially against an army with frenzy!
John set himself up horribly with those first round charges.
Putting MaA in the center as anvils to draw in his bricks, giving you the ability to decimate him with flanking charges.
Also, you forgot to use your horse hooves multiple times in rd 1.
That said, great game. I expected it to go much worse for Brets when I saw the deployment
I thought so too at first. But after the game im instead considering if he might be a stone cold, heartless, tactical genious. 😮 Kinda like Napoleon or Ceasar. 😋 He stated in the post game that the poor teenagers were basicaly sent to their death against the marauders. So that he could commit his specialist knights efter that. Ruthless.. 😱
And also, he said it was his plan to keep the grail knights back a turn to be able to destroy the deamon prince with them.
Alot of things I thought was just happenstance when I watched seems in retrospect to be perfectly executed tactical plans. If so.. well played indeed Mr Payne! 😯
If you have an AoS army but want to try Old World then there is an easy solution.
Throw it in the trash where it belongs and then buy an Old world army.
Why would you not buy a standard bearer for the ogres, it only 6 points sure it add up if they capture it.
Didn’t have the model! I try and play as close to “What you see is what you get”
@@lukapavicevic335 fair enough
Can you move and magic missile?
Yes but you can’t march and use magic missiles
for ze lady
knights of the realm no more strength 4?
I believe the last time they were Str 4 was 5th edition 😅
Correct me if I'm wrong , but you can't attack the Daemon prince in a challenge?
Yeah... but what exactly is a tree-bucket ?
Poor pronunciation of Trebuchet 😂
@@lukapavicevic335 I know... It triggered me allllll along (I'm french so I was particularly triggered^^)
What's the point of getting the rule book early if you aren't going to read it?
Good lord - go away troll
Its a great paper weight!