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Kevin DeYoung, Moscow Mood, and Institution Drift | Doug Wilson & Ben Merkle
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2023
- Doug Wilson, Joe Rigney and Jared Longshore are joined by Ben Merkle to talk about Kevin DeYoung, the famous Moscow Mood and how Institutions drift left. If you missed Kevin DeYoung's blog about the Moscow Mood you can read it here: clearlyreformed.org/on-cultur...
Doug Wilson and Friends is presented by Canon Press.
Thanks for this response. I really appreciate the challenge to both the Wilson fans and the Wilson opposition as well as the respect for De Young and the challenge too De Young. May God bless our times with Revival & Reformation!
Based on what I've seen on Twitter. I doubt the Wilson fans will accept the challenge. There are still a lot of idiot takes that do nothing but divide. I already have a good idea that the critics wouldn't.
And is your comment uniting or dividing?@@gregsquire9704
I think the Moscow mood is beautifully captured in the "Fight, Laugh, Feast" club moto
I love the mood, I’ve always wondered why people in the church can’t work it’s issues out and at the same time transform society. The mood of Moscow is precisely why there is transformation. The last 3 yrs has exposed how thin skinned we can be.
I just want to praise our Lord for the Moscow mood. We need it. Thank you.
Get ‘em, Jared! Well said in the 25m mark. Soli Deo Gloria
Thank you for not being weak. Thank you for standing tall and proud of the gospel. Thank you for not being a coward. Satan will never go after his own children. We are watching and admiring your community. Gives us hope for future generations
Same thoughts and feelings here 🙌
KDY praises the fruit and criticizes the tree.
Yes, yes 👏
The discussion about exegeting our kids' music was great. I have a 2 year old, and I'll be the one teaching her to play music, but I can also teach her how to listen to/process music. Taylor Swift is more likely to spiritually harm America's youth than Islam, Mormonism, or any other major false religion out there, and I can/ought to teach my family to overcome that
I've read DeYoung's article and I hope you two brothers can sit down and have a chat. All of us who are called "Saints" (1 Corinthians 1:2) have more in common, both bad and good than we are sometimes willing to admit - and this demonstration of love for the brethren before a watching and dying world is what would please our King the most! - Peace!
I hope more and more people see how much of a blessing your guys ministry is! Life changing for family dynamic and encouraging to build and walk in the good works God has set before us. Much love.
Doug Wilson is the first reformed minister I became familiar with after my conversion to reformed theology (introduced to me by my late son, who had hoped to attend Doug’s New Saint Andrews College in preparation for ministry before his untimely death 14 years ago) and my debt to DW is incalculable. I learned so much from his blog posts and from his videos, and he continues to be an inspiration. That said, I do think that KDY made some valid points in his article. I also think that some of his points didn’t quite hit the mark.
I know this is a lousy CZcams reply, but I'm so, so sorry for your loss. God bless you brother/sister in Christ ❤
@@leanneg4040, thank you so much.
One of the best comments in my opinion, was Jared’s comments about men who are all snark and no building. I think that’s a true temptation of the #moscowmood and one we should all take to heart. Appreciate this discussion very much! All great insights and thoughts.
Great finale! Looking forward to those responses to KDY. Thanks for a hot November!
I think what I'm very grateful for is the gracious response to kdy. My husband and I benefit greatly from what comes out of canon. There's a lot of ungracious, clunky handling of the material coming out of Moscow which is widely misrepresented and misunderstood. I've always appreciated the conversation, and I look forward to seeing God glorified in every aspect of what will happen in the future here.
"Most of our critics are unhinged". You can say that again! 🤣 I live in Tennessee. I'm someone who has enjoyed things Doug and others from Moscow have had to say. I will tell you, there are some people who, when Doug Wilson's name comes up, their mood changes. And they bring up the craziest, most obscure attacks on his character. I honestly don't understand it. I can think of a lot of men with platforms that seem to be saying stuff that I would think would be more offensive to the squishy evangelicals' sensibilities. But for some reason Doug really rubs them the wrong way.
"it's the same guy with 3 dresses" 😂😂
Thank you guys. Thank you for your clarity. Thank you for your laughter. Thank you for your insights. Thank you for the challenge you constantly put before me to live all of Christ for all of life! God bless you all. From in the country, west of Minneapolis, Joe, you are missed by us. D.P.
This was gold. So much good stuff. Thank you.
Suggestion for NQN 2024: Canon Fire. Hear me out.
Doug opens on a pirate ship at the helm. He lights a cigar while introducing NQN, tossing it behind him, where flames begin spreading. Make this a set piece on it's own.
Moving down to the deck we see a row of cannons. The cannons are being loaded by crew, consisting of families (since culture war is fought by families - this will really get under the skin of feminists & trads alike). Doug pauses to inspect a load of silverware shot. This could be a 2nd set with fire in the background that can't actually spread for safety. Once the families leave, light it up behind Doug.
The fire is now spreading & the families have exited. Doug picks up a flaming brand, a piece of wood from the encroaching fire. He walks along lighting cannons to punctuate his punchiest comments. This is where we cut to a fortress on a beach that's getting pummeled with explosions, a la the targets of the flame thrower.
Finally, Doug raises the NQN jolly roger, then swings out of frame (presumably to another ship - there's ample time to tone that upper body strength).
Wide shot of the burning ship, which turns out to be a captured enemy ship, with the jolly roger flying proudly above the enemy flag (scale model).
End
P.S. These suggestions are only going to get more elaborate until I see cannon fire!
😂👌
I love these guys!!!
Jared’s memory and recitation of Frozen lyrics is remarkable😂
I’m a massive Moscow mood fanboy. Also, several of KDY’s concerns are absolutely legitimate and deserve serious response. I’m excited for the blog & mablog video!
This is what usually happens when "orthodox Christians" get legitimate criticisms. They retreat back into their sheltered enclaves of symbiotic sycophants and celebrate that they have won the day. Once again, they are peddling illusions and distortions.
I’m curious if you are familiar with AD Robles? He is FLF, and just did three videos on this article.
@@kaylar3197 I am not sure who you were referring to. If it was me, I have no clue who AD Robles is.
I wish this could continue.
God bless you men!
Great stuff
The lyric option on Spotify is how my family sings hymns before bed. Great feature 👏
Uplifting conversation in MANY ways, thanks for letting us sit in with y'all. @55:00 "He's 5 and doesn't know any better..." I see what you meant. HOWEVER, that was actually a GREAT EXAMPLE that your son was the only one who DID know reality😮 The fact that you affirmed him in that potentially awkward moment that was a good gift to him--and an example for the rest of us ❤
amen to the spicy 🌶️ disposition!
'Christmas is the time the whole evangelical world turns postmillenial.' LOL!
I like Kevin, and think he had some strong points in his article!
For instance?
I live in SE Texas in the domain of Southern Baptists, and I read about what y’all are doing in Moscow, Idaho & say Amen & Praise the Lord!! We need more of this in the world. Any confessing Christian who criticizes or wouldn’t associate with y’all because they are worried about their reputation, loves themselves & this world too much & proves they have NOT died to self. No real follower of Christ should care if the world and/or fake Christians think they’re respectable. The only person’s opinion that matters is our Heavenly Father’s. The mere fact that y’all receive criticism is a good indicator that y’all have hit the mark!! Keep up the good work!! As far as the rest of all the winsome “Evanjellyfish” goes: If you care more about what the world thinks of you than what YHWY thinks of you, you’re probably not born again. Repent & be saved!!
So sad I missed this live! My thought on Mr Deyoung's article is, either he really doesn't know what's going on in Moscow or he does, and he's a pinch envious.
In other words, whatever the fact is, he’s wrong?
Envious that he can’t use the word “wuss”
@@lewislibre:..envious of the attention Moscow is getting.
@@albertmartinsermons : logically probable.
@@rosefortheKing Possible: Yes, because of remaining sin.
Probable? As in likely because he is envious. Care to share why in your mind this is logically probable?
Doug, the great white Buffalo.
Charlie Daniels, if the fiddle and bow were pen and paper.
Santa, if reindeer were dragons and gifts were both coal and toys.
Father Winter, with a flame thrower.
"It's the same guy with three dresses." 🤣
A friend of mine made this distinction between Wilson and DeYoung is like the difference between Bonhoffer and Niebhurr.
"Well because flamethrowers"
Three cheers for Moscow! Iron sharpening iron here. Trowel & Sword at work!
Best NQN yet! Thankful for the Moscow Mood!
I am not reformed, but I am a big fan of Doug!
Could it be “peace peace, when there is no peace”?
How about a massive fiery pit where Doug throws then pushes then bulldozes or drops by crane larger and larger symbolic items into a seemingly bottomless pit and the flames continue to grow as the items just disappear into them.
YES
Jesus will literally do this.
NQN 2024
Does Joe Rigney have his own show? I can’t find it
Agreed...A swing and a miss.
Anyone know what One Direction song he’s referring too?
8:07 which they’re definitely willing to rebuke us harshly (the men in the pews)
Can someone explain to me what is "the Moscow mood" ?
How do you play this, Doug? Stephen Wolfe's book says natural law is the way. Is that the way to go for "general equity theonomists?"
How to call someone a pharisee without calling them a pharisee.
i take issue with KDY "attempting" to be fair and level-headed. i think he was just far more sly about it
Too many simps, I’d move to Moscow tomorrow if I could
I'm still looking forward to Doug burning the LGBTQ+ rainbow flag one NQN.
i would love to talk to yall one day, as i may be able to represent people from the KDY personality / persuasion
I’m sorry.
When He rolled up His sleeves He wasnt just putting on the ritz, our God is an awesome God; there was thunder in His footsteps and lightening in His fists,......Rich Mullins Long since time to roll up your sleeves and get--to--work!
46:45
What is with this idea that my kid might hear the “S” word and if so I’ll need to have a family council?
Seems both the father and kid didn’t spend enough time doing barn work.
In my childhood the “s word” wasn’t profanity it was chores.
Should we use the preferred pronoun “donkey” bc the “j” and “a” word is too offensive? And don’t tell me “donkey” isn’t a pronoun, the donkeys with hurt feels just told me so.
How can Christians employ boycotts - and how specifically against drifted rudderless ‘Christian’ churches?
THOSE AREN’T Beatles lyrics Doug, they’re Chuck Berry’s 😃#genius_steals
You'll have a burn an old train car while going down the tracks for next year.
I had guessed you would be burning a pride flag. Elsa is a step closer to that from the couch, so maybe next time
Can you start using CGI to virtually burn things like the Federal Reserve?
Moscow Mood as libido dominandi
czcams.com/video/ujLmX1v7dk8/video.html
DeYoung is spot on. He wasn't trying to swing-and-hit, he wasn't trying for a knock-out blow, he isn't using those terms. But they interpret his article like some sort of existential, "DeYoung with a bat coming to get us oooooo, scary" sort of thing, and they brag their twitter followers support them, "But he missed, poor Kevin, though he is so nice." Weird, they frame it in this way. It tells you something.
Do you know what Kevin was trying to do? Not talk to you, he said it. He is communicating to his followers, and he is letting them know: "Doth thou smell Christ in Doug? Do you smell Christ in his flamethrowers, in his curse words, in his sexual references, in his degradation of others? Do you smell Christ in Idaho?" He is posing a question, basically, is what he is doing. He is giving us the data. And he is being generous; paedocommunion and the rest of the idiosyncrasies and theological aberrations are certainly easy targets for a guy like him to lambast. But he doesn't. He doesn't even foray into eschatology. The medium is the message. The mood is the message. That's his point. Where is the fragrance of Christ, or is it consumed with cigar-smoke and the smell of whiskey?
My Christian brothers and I sat down one night and watched this 2023 NQN thing. It sort of appalled us. We had sung a hymn together, we were talking about Christ, looking forward to worship Sunday. And for fun, we watched that at some point. And none of us thought, this man will lead us to Christ. We sort of thought, I don't know, we thought sort of pitying thoughts. And we kind of decided not to recommend you to the younger brothers. And we sort of, at least I did, have this strong, overwhelming conviction its pointing to Christ, sharing the gospel, worshiping Christ, reveling in Christ, understanding Christ, loving Christ, that we want. And are hungry for others to do the same, and teach us how to better know Christ and adore him and live for him. And so there are options; but would CPress ever lead us in that direction? We sort of said, I don't know, Christ washes feet. I guess that's what we said.
Sad you would call Samuel murderer. Jesus vulgar and insensitive and Luther a disgusting disappointment because each of these men did and said things out of zeal for the glory of God.
I'm addressing the concerns Kevin brought up against Doug; I am unsure why the attack came up; why would you claim I think Jesus is "vulgar and insensitive," when he is the perfect Son of God risen and reigning, gracious in all of his ways, and infinitely loving? Why claim I think Jesus was a sinner, given vulgarity and insensitivity are sins?@@ThembaMaselane
Frozen is no masterpiece, and I get the "no right, no wrong, no rules for me" is the more consistent disney message, but for a bunch of literary experts to miss the antagonististic position that's being argued for in that song (which is proved wrong by the central debate of the movie, requiring Elsa to submit to a vague version of the law of love in order to stop freezing the world over), I just don't get it. It is a bad guy song, and it holds that spot in the disney formula of movies. This is the song that you're supposed to understand to be Elsa convincing herself that her descent into cold-hearted isolation is a good choice, and it's not. The reason the song is so successful is because it tells us exactly what the character feels in a way that makes us relate to her on a human level, and the reason so many people resonate with the song is because they already think and feel that way, not because the song is a compelling reason to buy that worldview. It's debateable if Elsa is a good "bad guy" or if the movie handles the fact that she is one well, but that song is the perfect example of how to make a likeable antagonist that you want to see redeemed while exposing the exact mindset she needs to overcome.
It is the catchiest bad guy song. And yes little girl's leave the movie wanting to be like Elsa at that point. But of all the Disney movies to critigue, you sound like a bunch of old church mice picking out one of the few movies where Disney undermined it's own standard message. The standard "follow your heart" message nearly proves fatal for both protagonists and has to be submitted to "consider the good of others more highly than yourself."
I don't get it. Sometimes you guys throw around the word "crap" (for lack of the term I'd rather use) with a biblically defense to where it's warranted and other times it's the standard "Disney used these specific words, which is the wrong way of thinking regardless of context."
This isn't an apologetic for Frozen either: hate it all you like. Next time just make fun of Alladin or the little mermaid or Cinderella or something so no one has any right to question your consistency.
All of your parenting advice requires parents to be around their children. A lot.
I think these younger men, like Kevin and Owen Strachan, should calm down and listen to the older men for a bit. They're solid guys and have built quite a name for themselves, but still young and relatively inexperienced.
This critique is fair for Owen Strachan but Deyoung is 46 years old, he's been pastoring for 20 years.
@@matthewball8060Perhaps Joe Griffith was confused by Kevin's last name. However Doug is at least 25 years older than him, so the age factor isn't totally lost.
@ethanmulvihill7177 😂😂 fair point. To be fair though, there are plenty of elder brothers on DeYoung's side, and plenty of (relatively) younger brothers on Wilson's side like Longshore and Rigney.
Now I must read that stupid stupid Delong letter because I don't understand why you guys are so bummered, I haven't had a problem with you for 20 years and I've had to move through about four or five flavors of presbyterianism, as well as I choked up on 3-4 of MSLC local churches. ? why? because I had to move around and support myself so it be came a peripatetic School of Christianity the wandering Christian; John Bunyan etcetera. currently I'm trying to figure out baptism by immersion; because the only church I have access to is Reformed Baptist but I am reluctant two be a multiple dunker. Hail Christ.
Being a multiple dunker boldly states that the grace of God is not efficacious. Don’t do it.
This content is fabulous. My only problem is Joe Rigney's tight association with John Piper, who infamously accused prolifers of being liars, naive and presumptuous for voting for Trump.
Piper’s concern was proved right.
@@TheDareD3vil. So you’re ok with abortion. Wars. Transgenderism. Inflation. An open border. 100,000 fentanyl deaths every year. You’ve embraced quite the dystopian vision, now haven’t you? It amazes me that Christian’s are ok with Piper’s scurrilous accusations against fellow believers!
@@TheDareD3vil Really? Did you miss Roe V. Wade being overturned?
@@Nuclear_Option_10 Yes, and glory be to God. God raises up kings and brings them down. Ends do not justify wicked means.
We only have fallen men to chose from
Curious why boldly living and proclaiming the truths of Gods Word are no longer adequate but now requires a flame-throwing sentinel, flippant and sarcastically taunting any perceived threat? Seriously, do we need that? I don’t think we do. Christians have something far better than a brittle perception of dominance (which most often comes across as arrogance). It’s the Holy Spirits workings.
It’s the culture who takes all things holy and desecrates them, flippantly disrespecting God and men. You would probably say that the evanjellyfish Christians imitate the culture in attempts to win them to Christ, are you not doing the exact same thing only using the back door of cultural norms?
I am blessed in my life to have many older, gray haired saints who are wise and mature men in the Lord, who uncompromisingly and boldly stand for and live the truth. These men (Dr. Curt Daniel especially) protect our church from error, holding fast to the Word of God. None of these men would recommend a sarcastic, flame-throwing approach, except perhaps in extreme situations with hardened ungodly.
God bless.
It is strange to see Rigney defending Wilson and criticizing “woke” while keeping a tight association with John Piper.
Guilt by association?
@@mrhudson8701 Possibly.
Doug himself still refuses to criticize Piper; I believe he considers him a friend.
@@kaylar3197 why should doctrinal differences change one's love for a brother?
@@mrhudson8701Second and third tier differences shouldn't change our love for our brothers; I never implied they should. And doesn't love for our brothers require rebuking their serious errors and calling them to repentance when they ae in the wrong (and worse yet, leading others astray)? Proverbs 27:5, Galatians 2:11-14, 1 Timothy 5:20
He appears to be an individual portraying himself as a supposed "man of God," yet his demeanor is characterized by violence, anger, envy, and jealousy, reflecting his personal insecurities. It's disconcerting how he directs his frustrations towards cartoon characters (like all Bible characters) and social media logos, echoing a weakness evident in the real world. Unfortunately, it seems like an effort to manipulate his less-educated and insecure followers into committing harm against those with differing viewpoints. This type of content, promoting extremism, should arguably be banned from platforms like CZcams due to its potential threat to the well-being of our society.
Thanks Pete for this perspective.
Not only are the others playing in the 1st Qtr as opposed to 3rd, but it’s the posture of play! Being aggressive both attacking and defending ( UK talk) closing down, denying space and time, blocking, getting “hurt” by putting bodies in the way of ball. This type of play requires physical and metal strength! This leads into the type of player ( men) and this leads into the schools that prepare these men! Classical! The other way is passive; let them have the ball, we’ll sit back and watch them play… eventually we’ll get the ball back🤦
I think the issue is more between playing fair and playing dirty. Even if the other team is constantly fouling and seemingly getting away with it, you still shouldn't start playing dirty in return.
You don’t have to be dirty to ply aggressively.