LAGOM P64 - Is It Still At The Top In 2023?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- After my original review there really was no question I was impressed with the Lagom P64, but as I often do with my longterm, personal gear I like to update my reviews on a yearly basis. So in this week's video I'll be getting into and going over my experience over the past year. This will include where I think the coffee grinder excels, where it falls short, and even covering some of its new accessories like the Mizen burr set, and the Versa dosing cup.
↓CHAPTERS↓
[0:00] INTRO
[0:57] STANDART SPONSOR
[1:40] WHERE THE P64 EXCELS
[3:45] WHERE THE P64 MISSES
[5:54] THE NEW ACCESSORIES
[8:28] FINAL THOUGHTS
↓LEARN MORE↓
- Option-O: www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64
- Prima (US Reseller):prima-coffee.com/equipment/op...
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Excellent, thoughtful video which confirms my purchase decision. My P64 with the Mizen burrs arrives in late July, and I can hardly wait. I was drawn to it based on reviews, including yours, as well as the quality, consistency, and burr selection.
Brilliant review. Really appreciate how you covered where it sits in the context of it's updates/competitors.
Finally received our P64 a few days ago after waiting a year - totally worth the wait! We love the build quality, the quiet grind and the Mizen burrs. So glad to hear you're still happy with your P64 after a year - it's a little scary to spend that much money for a grinder, especially without trying it first! Thank you for your in-depth reviews of coffee equipment and helping us make up our minds. :)
Did you go with the ES mizen? If so how are they?
@@user-wr2vg2ud4q We have the Mizen Omni burrs - I’m not sure how they compare to Mizen ES. I will say that we drink almost exclusively espresso, usually medium or light-medium roast. We use our P64 daily, making 3-4 shots each day. We would order the P64 again and haven’t felt the need to buy different burrs. We have SSP HU burrs in another grinder, but haven’t used it at all since getting our P64. We have used the Omni burrs for the occasional Aeropress or pour over cup and have been happy with those - we stick to espresso because it’s quick and we enjoy using the manual flow control on our Lelit Bianca. Would light roast espresso be sweeter with espresso burrs? I’m not sure. We tend to like coffee with more body than clarity. We use a conical burr grinder (Niche Zero) for decaf or when someone gives us dark roast coffee.
Thanks! Mine is on order (based on you earlier review and others). Looking forward to it.
I’ve had a P100 for 7 months. It’s been a perfect experience and consider it my end game grinder.
Thanks for posting an update. Glad to hear it’s still your grinder of choice. I still plan to get one as well. Would be cool if they started offering it in white. Would match your other equipment as well
For sure. I actually just started to get comments on the original review asking for updates so it’s just in time apparently.
I think white is nice, but with grinders and all the coffee dust it can get messy quick. I’ve sort of began to go with the theme of white machine black grinder haha.
@@Sprometheus Yea good point about the white color although your black one still looks brand new and my silver Lagom mini easily looks brand new with a quick dusting. I think that is thanks to the anodized coating. I ended up doing a little research and apparently you cannot anodize white, so I guess that makes sense why they don't offer it lol. Maybe they can use some other coating but I bet the cost might not be worth it.
@@SprometheusI have a question for you? I am thinking of buying a Df64v or a Df83 and I not sure if the DF83 is worth the added expense for the burrs. I want to use the lab sweet burrs and DLC coated burrs for both espresso and pour overs. Do you find there to be a big difference in the taste in the cup between 83mm burrs and 64mm burrs? Thats is my main dilemma in chooseing which grinder to purchase. I like texture in the cup with traditional roasts but also want the ability to explore modern espresso as well. What are your thoughts between those two burr sizes and the added value of increaseing the burr size to justify the added expense.
Thanks for a really informative video. Great work.
You’re welcome David, thanks for watching and the kind words.
greetings. so happy when friday rolls around and we get a new video from you! really, really, really appreciate it. home baristas have such little to go on in terms of bouncing ideas off folks (not many understand the pursuit) so it's great to have such thoughtful videos to help navigate this journey.
i have been thinking about upgrading my mahlkonig k30 vario (i did put in SSP HU burrs 18 months ago and love them) but my only real issue is grind retention and wondering if i'm missing something due to its age. since i make my wife her coffee first, that gives me fairly "new" grinds to work with. however, it is 7 yrs old and so i just often wonder. i have checked the alignment and it is almost perfect. i drink tim wendelboe coffees exclusively and only drink straight shots. i need a mix of body and clarity. i own a lagon mini for travel and love it. the shots on it are not as complex as the mahlkonig but they are cool in their own way. so the lagom p64 is at the top of the list as for as upgrades. the EG-1 is too but the cost is hard to swallow. my issue is that i absolutely love the shots i am making already and have no way of knowing if i could really gain that much with a new grinder. just wondering if you have any recs, sorry for long comment.
New owner of the P64 the latest version with versa cup and the safety zero position and SSP MP, love its workflow and getting great cup consistency with my pour-overs. Best of all, the grind settings stay true and never loosens up
Nice! Congrats on the grinder, it’s a solid investment in your coffee for years to come I’m sure.
Same, I would say the newer versa+zero stop version is almost flawless. Occasionally if I use oily beans or use too much water I might have a bean sticking on top, but those same beans would stick inside the dosing cup even upside down so I don't see it as a problem of the machine. I also don't see any problem just use a finger to push it off, there's no way your finger can reach anywhere near the burrs(even if the top funnel is off, nobody is going to run it like that). Most beans I use only need a light spray of water to come out super clean unless the environment is super dry.
For the money of another pair of burrs, I just went with the Sculptor 078s sale, so I have a pair of grinders to cover the spectrum.😄
@@JohnZ556 Same here. Beast of a machine. No regrets. The biggest flaw that is not mentioned is that the original portafilter will vibrate out of the holder forks, creating an unholy mess. That and the lack of googly eyes, but I remedied that within the first week; Machine costing 2000e.... looks like a cute gnome, especially when holding the dosing cup.
This is my experience as well. Just with my DF64
I was getting curious if we were going to receive a P64 update video soon and here we are! I know in this video you said the P64 is the last grinder you’ll ever buy (hopefully) but I have to ask if you have an itch for the P100.
Watched this video and the initial a bunch of times. The ones about the df family too. Decided to pull the trigger on the P64. Life changing grinder. This is the end of the line for me. Very happy with it, thank you for the follow up video
Thinking about making the leap myself. What do you primarily brew and what burs did you go with?
I brew espresso 90%+. Mizen burr and ssp mp. Honestly I prefer the mizen so far.
I love the pour over it makes, I just don’t make much of it because my significant other lives latte and I din’t feel like making multiple brew methods in the morning
Good update. I’m glad you still give it high praise. I’m in the market and still deciding - the P64 is the current front runner. Thanks for your update.
No regrets with mine. I bring it at work and my coworkers are impressed with what they taste in their cup
You’re welcome and thanks for watching. Best of luck in your search and I hope you end up with something great even if it’s not the P64.
@@NexusS4GIceJelly great to know. Thanks.
@@Sprometheus thanks.
A cool future video would be to go back to the Niche Zero and LM Mini for a week or so and share the experience. One benefit is that you have tons of old b-roll!
Of course, the video could feature reminiscing. The big question is if going back is easy and comfortable, or do you give up too much. Should you have upgraded much sooner, or do you question if a less coffee obsessed person should have upgraded at all?
FWIW, I’m still running a Zero/Mini combo. I might like a cleaner, flat burr grinder, but I don’t know that I would do a GS3.
Can’t wait for the P64 vs Zerno comparisons
They are not even the same type
Zerno is worse.
@@K0sm they’re $1000+ 64mm single dosers, wdym?
@@gro967 Righto chief, I’ll still wait for the video comparison from the reputable source, cheers
@@craiggles8454 that's up to you. But Zerno is not even available at this point and definitely not a niche killer.
I personally would go with Weber Workshops every time, I love my EG-1. But the P64 is a great machine as well, got that last year to have a 64mm comparison.
I also have a one year old p64 with MPs and Mizen, OO did fix the issue, and they started shipping the Mizen with very well made and easy to install shims (rings). For me this fixed the issue and i can easily choke my Decent even with blooming profiles and still not too close to chirp
I’ll have to ask them for the shims, the Mizen seem like a fun change from the MPs but such a pain to swap in and out.
Great video thank you!
When you have to grasp for "negatives" like 1-2 beans sometimes get stuck on the hopper that you have to push down, you know it's as close as practicable to the perfect grinder. The P64 for me 1+ years out is still a beautiful design aesthetically and functionally. I love the look, the feel, and how smoothly and quietly it operates. My only doubt about whether this is truly the perfect grinder is I don't know how the taste in cup compares with the handful of even higher-end flat burr grinders with significantly larger burrs.
it's a pity no one has reacted to your question about the comparison in terms of tasting.
@@back_to_the_bike8820 I'm sure such opinions and comparisons have been posted if I were to seek them. Those are usually from people with more discerning palates than mine. I'd have to directly compare them in order to satisfy myself.
Good stuff man. Thank you.
I have a p64 with ssp cast installed. Thinking about a 2nd 64mm grinder to pair with it. Df64v or sculptor 64s you reckon? I will either put the HU or MP in the other one. Or maybe ode brew burr..
This very closely tracks with how feel about my P64 (minus having constantly changing loaners in my kitchen).
In summary still real happy with the purchase one year later.
Glad to hear you’re still enjoying yours as well! Cheers to tasty coffee.
I have a p64. That’s pretty much a spot on assessment
I have narrowed down my 'last' grinder purchase down to the P64, Zerno Z1 or the Niche Duo.
I am leaning towards a 64 mm grinder because I already have 4 sets of 64 mm burrs. And 64 mm seems to be that sweet spot for price and performance. I don't know if I want to spend the money on 83 mm burrs.
I prefer the Zerno because it supports blind burrs out of the box, but I like the way the P64 looks.
And I have a soft spot for Niche cause I had a good run with the Zero.
Zerno is interesting.. but workflow wise not being able to grind to pf is not great for me.
I would add two other quirks or hang ups I have w/ the P64, both of which I think you have previously mentioned. While the retention is low, I find myself having to smack my hand on the top of the grinder to create a bellow effect to get all of the coffee grinds out. Secondly, I find it almost impossible to use the P64 for a dark roast because it will easily clog up entirely. It's best suited for medium to light roasts. However, coming from the Niche, the overall consistency of the P64 is significantly better and getting back to a setting after cleaning or switching settings is also way more consistent than the Niche.
Your burr tic point might have changed from putting it back together after cleaning if it wasn't cleaned out perfectly a fragment might have thrown off the alignment, but also, I found rotating the upper burr carrier in a different orientation (I think there's 2 ways it can fit?) gave me a worse tic noise to burr lock point (indicating potentially worse alignment) I swapped it back to the original orientation (easy enough to do!) and then it was only 20 microns or 2 tic marks to go from tic noise to burr lock! which is pretty good!
Thank you for the video.
You’re welcome Alan, thanks for watching! Have a great weekend.
Thank you my friend.
Of course! Have a great weekend my friend.
This video finally pushed me over the edge and I’m currently waiting on my P64 with HU burrs. I’ve never been super interested in single dosing, but that seems to be where all the investment and development has been in the home market. I think the build quality and reliability, without any needing for modding finally sold me.
How did you like it so far?
Meeting all expectations and I'm very happy with it. Looks great on the bench, very solid, very quiet, the espresso tastes fantastic. The static is more of an issue than anticipated (I had never single dosed before) but is completely manageable with RDT. I'd love to see their P01 (next gen P100) with a built in deioniser. But that is close to twice the price of the P64@@Syd7088
@@robolver3851 cool thanks! did you do pour over as well? I own a Niche Zero, and thinking of getting a flarburr for my pour over.
Great video! Seems like a very good grinder if your'e willing to put up with the price.
For sure. That price point had me worried after the nightmare I had with the Weber Key, and honestly being pretty happy with the Niche Zero overall.
I thought they quickly realized the early / first batches of the Mizen burrs were too short for the older model of P64,
I got an email asking me to confirm how I wanted to handle the issue.
They offered a Refund, A precise metal shim you install under the burrs to give it a bit more height, OR the option of waiting for the next batch of Mizen burrs once they increased the height. I ended up getting both the Shimmed and updated version, and BOTH worked very nicely and had the same 20 micron alignment in my rudimentary testing.
It's funny SSP with their similar Cast burrs also had a similar issue with the first batch.
I much prefer the Mizen burrs over the SSP cast burrs in 64mm. For me Mizens are higher clarity, nicely balanced all purpose burrs, I'm not finding tons of body, but I do notice a sweetness with them, and a very clean aftertaste. SSP cast I thought didn't have enough clarity and were kinda bitter like an cheap conical burr profile, but others seem to like them a lot. I had TWO SSP cast burr sets in two different grinders as well!
Yes for some reason I buy two of everything :D
Hi there,
To all p64 owners, do you guys align your burrs with shims? The reason for this i cant choke my machine with the ssp lab sweet, even when the burrs nearly touching. Any recommendations?
i own lagom p64 previous version without versa cup almost 2 years. I have HU burrs and it is doing very well for espresso even for filter. I am just thinking about buying mp or brew burrs for better filter cups. i dont think there is other grinder out there in this price to do both espresso and filter very well. You cant go wrong with lagom p64...
I'm a owner of a June 2022 batch P64 (new design). The grinder oozes quality and has an amazing finish. Working with it is a real joy. The Chinese knock-off 64mm grinders may deliver the same grind quality but i just can't bother anymore with all the downsides those grinders come with.
I found the little dosing cup cute, but it doesn't really distribute the droplets properly when shaking up the beans. Switched to a bigger (plastic) dosing cup and hardly have any beans sticking to the popcorn
Isn’t this one made in China?😀
I believe they addressed those mizzer burr issues, they started selling them with easy install shims but then they came out with a 2nd gen burr set. I don’t know when the 2nd gen came out so I am curious if maybe you just had the first and that’s why you had those shimming issues?
Pro tip for anyone with sticky beans after rdt. I've had them stick both on the anti popcorn lid, and on the internal sloped side. When on the sloped side it's an even bigger problem, as you can't see them or nudge them even if you do.
I just took an allen key and removed the anti popcorn lid. Now they never really stick anywhere, and I can just check to see if any are there, and push them if I need to.
Nothing really popcorns out, but after I pour in my beans, I just leave the cup in the chute to block anything just in case
That is exactly what I discovered after a month of use. Removed the popcorn cover from the hopper and knocked down any leftover pieces.
I've had mine since shortly after their release, and like you, it's my end-game grinder. For me, it's close to perfect. The only gripe I have is the portafilter forks, which are angled such that they allow some PF handles to vibrate free from the grinder, resulting in a big mess of grinds on the counter. If the PF handle is lower than the basket (horizontally), it will vibrate to messy freedom. But otherwise, I love this grinder to bits. Such a well made, quality item.
Yes!
I used black shrink wrap on the forks and basically this issue disappears. It looks dope as heck now too :)
I have little silicone socks from the DF64 (you can purchase them separately cheap) which I put on my P64 for enhanced grip and a tighter fit, some portafilters fit better than others. ECM is kinda loose, Rockets I think was good, Weber Unifilter fits nicely.
@@BensCoffeeRants Thanks for the tip. Will certainly try that.
Is it hard to recalibrate if you change beans?
what's the difference between p64 and p100? Does the bigger flat burrs make a difference?
I have a P100 and I have tried RDT with it a few times, but it works better without it. With the knocker this is almost no retention without RDT.
I have one as well… found some beans (and during dry months like winter) it still needs it due to static electricity.
I’ve found that the P100 gets the grinds out with the knocker but makes a bit more mess with floating fines. Higher RPMs helps too
@@joshuaanderson7405 Yeah, there is some static with P100 but not bad IMO. Do you find RDT eliminates all the static? Each time I have tried it it was not enough to make want to keep using RDT. I have tried RDT with my Niche as well and for some reason I did not like there either. I do all the other crazy prep stuff: rinsed bottom paper filter, WDT and puck screen on the top but RDT has just not been my jam.
I have one and share same experience. On this burrs zero point, i notice mine could change slightly after cleaning the burrs. In one case, issue was some fines around the bearing. Other than that: love the grinder and dont want to change
Yeah it has to be something in there but it all looks clean so who knows. In the end it doesn’t effect anything so it’s just an odd thing. But glad to hear you’re enjoying yours, I mean it’s a great grinder and I have no buyers remorse.
@@Sprometheusany word on the internal layout being similar to the P100, giving it the potential to have the same issue?
I own one of the titan grinders that doesn't have any of the issues you mention in the vid.
That said, it's ridiculously big, heavy, expensive and currently no longer on sale. So regardless I think the P64 is still a great choice consider the points you made.
I cant emphasize enough the build quality from option-o. i have had a mini for almost 2 years now and it looks just as good as it did when I pulled it out of the box!
Oh yeah. Even the finish hasn’t changed. I had a fellow owner mention theirs faded in the sun by the window, but mine hasn’t in a year so I think they solved that issue.
I’ve had my P64 since last April and I agree with everything. I haven’t checked my zero point as I stay in the same adjustment for espresso, it’s so easy to jump to a pour over and cold brew size then back to espresso love it. The beans do get stuck on top with rdt but honestly doesn’t bother me, I’ve only cleaned it twice and the amount of grinds in the burr chamber was laughable. Love this thing, also.. new price is $1500 wow, got mine for $1800😮💨
It's still $1800, it just doesn't show the shipping and handling yet cause it's not at checkout. I just got mine last week and paid $1800 US
@joem3793 @juliemvo What burrs did both of you go with?
Hey there. A friend of mine has gotten his P64 about a week ago and has since struggled with espresso that always have bitterness. He used two separat beans to test (both light-medium roast) and even the shot time is on the faster side. Side by side with his old grinder, the previous one gave a much more acidic and balanced cup despite being a fraction of the price.
He uses filtered water and the same setup as before. The grinder is not really seasoned yet but still. It should be to extract some good espresso from the getgo.
Any tips or ideas on what could cause that?
What burrs?
Has anyone found a dosing cup alternative or an alternative portafilter fork for the P64 -- so other dosing cups can fit? It is the one thing that I dislike the most about the P64 -- the dosing cup feels clunky and heavy, yet fragile (dents easily) at the same time. There are 3D printed adapter covers for the portafilter forks, but it's not aesthetically pleasing... Any other solutions out there?
Did you get the burr version that required the shim? The first run were too thin. I have the second version of the p64 and order the Mizen back in November and have yet to receive them. I held off for the correct size but its getting a bit annoying. Hopefully it’s worth the wait.
Seems like he couldn't find much negatives so had to add something :D or they didn't send him the email update about that issue.
It's crazy how yesterday I thought it would be about time there came a year after update 😂 at some point I might get this grinder if there's no new(er) shiny released by that time
In regards to SSP MP, in pour overs, if you think you’ll get low body and texture with medium to dark roasts, I assure you you won’t after you just decrease the water to bean ratio. The strength will be highlighted with the body being full after increasing the coffee amount by a small amount
In light roast, definitely prefer high clarity and longer coffee to water ratios
That's why I paid for the 078S, for those darker beans or milk drinks. Tho I have to say, SSP MP isn't weak on medium roast espresso, at least in my own experiment it beats J-Max by an obvious margin.
@@JohnZ556 Agreed For espresso, definitely the 078S. Far more versatile than the MP for that purpose. For pour over, MP regardless of the roast since dialing-in on the dark roast will still bring body and strength with just a small adjustment in bean to water ratio. For me, I exclusively use pour over for now until I get a kitchen upgrade then that time I might start considering espresso. I'm pretty happy with milk based drinks from my local coffee shop once in a while
I might be wrong, but they've been pretty upfront about tons of quality issues with mizen burr. I'm still waiting for my set lol. I wouldn't be shocked if that has something to do with your issue but that would annoy the crap out of me. I own a p64 in part for its stellar alignment and having to shim with my mizen will not be cool.
Could you give a more detailed review (maybe it’s own video) of the Mizen burrs?
I recently got myself DF83 v2 (italmil burrs), and after using it for 4 months I am really quite happy with it. Don't see myself upgrading from it for a long while, tbh. :) Great video as always
Nice, the DF83 is a solid choice, and it has a lot of burr options too now. I highly recommend the SSP MPs if you’re looking for something wild in the cup.
What did they change on the V2?
They added an ionizer to reduce the need for RDT if I remember correctly
@@Sprometheus I'll get the SSP burrs later. I am still new to the home barista world, so the stock burrs are good for me for now. And also, as the other comment said - they added an ionizer to reduce the need for RDT. Honestly works quite great in my experience.
@@Sprometheuswhat differences did you find in taste for espresso between the DF83 and P64?
There is always that Kafatek upgrade though…. ;) Ever going to try it?
the bottle line for taste and best grinder on the market to day is the ek`43 hands down
Have you used or plan to use a Zerno Z1? Really curious to get your thoughts on that one!
Zerno Z1 has it's pros and cons, seems like it's going to be good. I have one coming. Auger / Pre breaker may have advantages for grind quality on the Zerno, build quality and alignment is supposed to be great, but P64 has a better / quieter motor and adjustable RPM.
My P64 arrived a week ago with mizen burrs installed. What ive noticed is whenever i grind coffee beans and i move my grind in finer settings i hear that light sound like burrs touching but few people from the community of P64 told me that it is because of the coffee and not the burrs touching,
Yeah bean fragments can make a bit of a squeak sound, but metal on metal is unmistakable. And considering the damage to my carriers it was clear they were the culprit.
@@Sprometheus No doubt! thanks for your amazing reviews! I'm looking to upgrade my single boiler machine (Lelit Pl41 Plust + manometer) but I'm drinking only espresso , so maybe for me a dual boiler would be an overkill. I'd love though to have a full control in pressure and flow.
I’d been wanting to get a P64 for >1 yr now but it’s seemingly never available, pre-order only up to six months out. That’s ridiculous. So have instead been saving up towards, perhaps, a Weber EG-1 and continuing with the trusty C40 in meantime. Maybe won’t ultimately bother buying a powered grinder.
Yeah, the availability on some grinders I think really hurts the brand overall. It happened to Niche. Personally, I think $2k is a max for me on a grinder as I don’t see that a $2k + grinder could bring to the table beyond more tech that could potentially be full of gremlins and headaches. And considering Weber’s atrocious customer service I’d be very wary of them…speaking from very public experience.
@@Sprometheus Oh! Yikes I wasn’t aware of the customer services issues. I *was* turned off by the SG-1 which I had thought was a great April Fools joke but since still listed at $$$ I assume they’re serious. Mostly just want grinder that I can tinker with a bit (ie try different burr sets) but not easily break or require engineering degree to calibrate/use/clean. Also one who’s grinding sound didn’t make me want to gouge my eyes out. The EG-1’s attraction on the surface was it sounded easy to swap burrs, clean, use, etc. Maybe I’ll stick with the ‘ol C40 for awhile longer. (Honestly if the P64 or P100 was just immediately available I’d have just bought whichever one was many months ago.)
I'd love to hear your thoughts compared to the P100
Phew! I was a bit hesitant to watch this as I’ve recently placed an order for a P64 (fingers crossed for July delivery). I think hearing about the solid build quality, it’s ability to grind for pour over / espresso and lastly the adjustable RPM (with no reports on stalling) are the reasons that drew me to the grinder.. granted it’s expensive but I’m justifying it as the end game grinder :) thanks again for the update!!
Why didn't you consider the DF64V?
There is a massive gap btw P64 and DF64V in terms of product quality. DF grinders feel and look cheap and you get the feeling you only get what you paid for when you use them. You won't regret with P64. It's an amazing end game quality premium grinder.
@@morningcoffee1 I did to be honest.. The initial electrical board issues (which triggered stalling) did get me worried.. only hearing positive things about the P64 and knowing I’ll be keeping it for several years solidified my choice … I’m hearing the new DF64Vs have no issue
@@dtonpbac - totally agree and excited to getting mine!
I chose the P64 because similar to the Niche, it was always the standard. Every other grinder wants to be the P64. Coming from the newer version of the DF64 the Lagom is better. Is it 4-5x worth the cost? No, but i'm one of those people who are willing to pay the premium.
How long does it take your P64 to get through a grind? I love the grinder, but mine takes 50s + and while it’s super quiet, I get frustrated with the workflow.
That’s not a grinder issue. I think that’s just a function of the burr design, grind size, rpm, and roast level. If you really want a faster grind, increase RPM or try a different burr.
@@jmvdigital interesting. Do you have this grinder too? Curious to hear average grind times, or a range.
@@brandonmalz I do have it. I just timed my second cup for you… 28s. This is with the SSP HU burrs, at 4.5 on the RPM dial, 1.2 notch grind size (0 being touch), 18gr beans, medium roast. A finer grind size, higher dose, lower RPM, or lighter roast level… will all increase grind time.
@@jmvdigital appreciate it, thank you!
What do you think of P64 compared to DF83V?
Nowhere near enough content covering long term impressions of coffee gear! Always have loved the look/workflow of the P64
I sentenced I learned never to say ever again 😂
First I thought the Major was the last grinder I ever buy, but then I tried the coffee from the K30 so I had to replaced it with that, but then I wanted to SD so replaced it with a K10PB, but I was not satisfied with the cup and all the hype with EK43 started to see the light so I got that instead. Then after some time SD grinders started to appear on the market well you probably catch my drift by now. So Now I’m getting the Niche Duo that will be equipped with SSP MP…
The P64 is a very nice grinder, but with Zerno out, if I ever wanted to spend that much on a grinder again that would be where my money would go as I’m a sucker for vertical mounting of burrs, blind burr also makes changing and cleaning so much more enjoyable and all the design went into it is fantastic. But even that will have the ongoing changes we already seen that in its short lifespan I just think that’s the nature of what these products are always striving to be as good as possible.
I got my P64 about a month ago. At the time I placed my order, it seemed like Option-O wasn't selling them direct in the US and you had to go through a local vendor, but it looks like that may have changed. I've been really happy with it. Like you, I had a Niche, but I mostly make filter coffee, but I wanted something that would produce fewer fines and the P64 with the unimodal burrs has been great for that.
I must have a newer model - the access to the burr set is different on mine, the zero point is at zero (and stays there), and the holder for the grounds cup is longer so the new dosing cup doesn't hit the grinder at all. I don’t know if there would be a problem with installing different burrs as I’m very happy with the unimodals.
Mizen (think it’s maybe “Maizen”) have shims for older grinders like yours and have been recreated and rereleased thicker than the originals. Hit OO and ask for shims or a replacement.
Yeah, their shims worked perfectly.
I got the updated version a few months ago. It comes aligned now, so 0 is the touching point, just the way it should’ve been from the start 😅
I’ve also been annoyed by wet beans, that needed a little push. At the moment I’m not using RDT anymore, retention after cleaning the grinder is around 0,3g, and from then on more or less zero (with a few taps though).
I really like the new Versacup, I think it’s really satisfying to use and it does a great job.
A few times I had an annoying issue with coffee grounds getting stuck, I put my dose of 18g in and hardly anything came out, and I really couldn’t figure out why it happened. Will contact the customer support the next time, since they’ve really been quite helpful with any questions I’ve had so far.
In case it’s helpful to any EU customers: price for me was 2005$ with shipping, tax etc…. 🙈
people tend to over do their RDT. 1 spray is enough, not 2. you only really need a micro amount of water to prevent static. so half spray is more than enough but theirs no half spray on spray bottles. just to give you context on how little water you need. 1 drop is more than enough.
It’s a beautiful grinder but with the price and common, small burr size, it seems like a poor value proposition. I was especially surprised to hear about the drift issue with no way to re-zero the markings, as well as the fitment issues.
I find the concern with knowing the RPM you're grinding at interesting. Do you care so that you can communicate to others (like in a community-contribution setting)? Otherwise, isn't not knowing the RPM just like not knowing the vertical distance between burrs? It doesn't prevent you from dialing in or returning to the same setting, right?
It’s a detail thing really. Being able to accurately return and test the differences without estimating would be nice, especially as I tend to share my experiences with a broad audience.
When I tested the results of speed when it comes to grinding and the coffee it produced there was a big difference even in the same grind setting. And really, when it comes to something that’s $2k and aimed at coffee enthusiasts who truly are geeking out it seems like a missed opportunity to geek out further.
you should do a Lagom P64 vs DF64 Gen 2 video
They claim the alignment is permanent. Did you have to align your grinder after swapping the burr set?
I've checked a few times when swapping burrs in and out, and have great alignment, but I've only ever checked with the SSP MPs and the Option-O Mizen with the new shims they sent me.
The reason your zero point seems to be moving coarser is nothing to do with mechanical float. It's caused by an invisible buildup of oil residue from the beans which creates the chirping sound when the burrs get closer and the oil layers come into contact.
Each dash on the adjustment dial moves the burrs just 10 microns, so you basically have an oil layer about 20 microns thick on each burr, accounting for 4 dashes (40 microns) of "float" to a coarser zero point. This residue is the so-called "seasoning" on the burrs and is considered desirable for proper grinder performance.
I've owned the P64 for almost 4 years and in my opinion it is absolutely flawless. I have never had a single complaint about this equipment and it is pure joy to use it every day. I'd be curious to hear what you think of the Mizen burrs. I have the SSP multipurpose and high uniformity, but I find there are tradeoffs between the two.
4:42 -- am I being petty by saying that it's annoying how the touch point isn't at, and can't be reset to, "0" on the adjustment?
Yes lol When swapping burrs it changes.
Well actually on the updated version (which is what you get when you buy a new P64 now) they made it so you CAN adjust your 0 point! Seems like more of a process, I think I'm happier with my old version :D
What about the P100?
Zerno takes the crown of grinder for coffee nerds made by coffee nerds. Option-O have lost touch and sold out, their new models (released just after yours) are riddled with QC issues.
Sounds way too complicated.... putting in shims to grind espresso. I'm not mechanically inclined and just want something that works out of the box for espresso. Can you recommend one for our small cafe? I can spend $2k on a grinder. Is there a motorized grinder that *just works out of the box* for espresso? Thank you.
Lucky you!
Indeed.
"......Hopefully" haha. Lets see if this is still your endgame grinder in 2 years time ;) .
I also love my p64 ❤
It’s a pleasure to use as a daily!
That change to the burr height carrier without proper documentation is pretty bad practice. The updated version should have some identifying mark on it and any accessories they sell should have notes about compatibility with each version
- it's sad they don't inform the customers about the different carrier heights. A shim for older versions would have solved the issues
- I don't like that there's no update to set zero on the grinder's scale. It makes my life harder
+ overall a very good grinder
Need a Zerno comparison please
Where did you get the shims?
They were sent to me by Option-O when I emailed and mentioned my issues.
We want to see the cat witness
☕☕☕
Love Is Important 💓
Indeed my friend, cheers!
Been interested in the P64 for the longest time! The holdup has always been the price point 😵 With the Zerno now on the block, the P64 doesn't hold my exclusive interest. I know that's a comparison that I would be very interested in!
Couldn't you have filed down the carrier instead of shimming up the burr?
if you file it off un-evenly, it will spin out of balance.
@@haig4977 true enough
I was surprised that you weren’t initially enamoured by the look. That was the first of many ‘hooks’ that saw me purchase this thing of beauty. One thing I would like is somewhere on the grinder to store grinds catcher ring.
They actually improved the looks over the original original version, and some photos the silver finish definitely looks different, I loved my silver one, it reflected light in a beautiful diffused kinda way, I guess the black does too a bit but not as noticeable, needs bright light to be appreciated.
I have discovered the specialty coffee world about a year ago, I own a comandante hand grinder but I've binge watched dozens of grinders reviews and my humble opinion any grinder that can be called "good" or "solid" is an end game grinder. I've tasted coffee comin from many grinders in the past year: manuals, commercial, home prosumer and... I'll stick to my comandante for now, maybe I'll get a flat burr manual if a proper one comes out, but I doubt I'll ever even venture into an electric.
The concept of "end game" is so subjective and ephemeral that is to tiring to pursue in my opinion: can you mostly get the taste notes? Have some clarity? Do you enjoy your cup? Then you already have an endgame grinder 😊
In terms of cup quality, the Comandante is end game. And while it can make great espresso, it's flaw is that even with Redclix it wont be able to dial-in every coffee perfectly for espresso. That being said, I used mine for like 8 months with my new espresso machine and was always happy with the shots when I could dial-in reasonably well. For filter, Comandante all the f*ing way.
@@bluemystic7501 agreed.
When P100?
For the touch point moving over time, it’s been my experience that the noise is just grounds stuck and it needs cleaning. After a good cleaning the touch point was where it was initially.
Хороший вариант.
I own P64 and I agree with the part regarding the price. For that price, it should have been a 83mm burr grinder and P100 should have been a 120 mm burr grinder instead. P64 is insanely well-built premium grinder like a tank but its overall quality is kinda overkill (way too good) for a 64mm grinder tbh. It could have been few hundred bucks cheaper with cheaper materials and add P83 in their line-up or sth.
I think they might indeed be coming out with a 120mm burr grinder soon!
Basically the most unthinkable thing happened to me this month: somehow in this timeline I was able to get a second hand P64! Never did I imagine to actually own this dreamy grinder one day let alone this soon, and here I was just a month ago scrambling in a frenzy to find the best relevant contenders for my eventual purchase. I'm elated, to put it mildly.
So, the grinder:
- It's from 2021 but fortunately for me the numbers correspond correctly to grind size (the bigger the coarser & vice versa)
- The grind is so uniform that I no longer deal with soupy broken pucks or even mould in the knock box (SSP burrs)
- The motor's sound doesn't drone consistently especially at low RPM, not sure if that's normal but it grinds to set speed like asked nevertheless... on that note, one of the walls inside the grinder has lines of visible scratches from the revolving carriers, it's like they've brushed up against the sides somehow scraping into the aluminium coating
- Nice tools but the WDT has the old design of looped ends instead of actual needles, just moving grounds around instead of fluffing them which leaves a lot to be desired
- I have yet to taste the notes that I was itching for but then again the beans are over 2 months old (channelling af) and they're medium... can't wait to give this a proper try soon
- Grinding at the lowest RPM to the coarsest setting possible stalls the grinder for a second before the rest is chewed out but then it squeals as if the burrs are touching and the adjustment ring gets hard, until I actually pop the top off and brush off all the coffee fragments from the burrs then it's perfectly fine again
- I have to be careful not to rapid press the spray bottle otherwise the thing inside detaches which deflates the button and I have to unscrew the top to re-fit the pipe mechanism and the small ring around it back in place
- Careful when cleaning the chute - there's a thin (almost flimsy) metal de-clumper "hanging" right at the entry of the slide
Not exactly complaints, just observations so far. The Lagom P64 is a thing of beauty. Oh my god could I have spent money on anything better this year. The thing is like a Rolls Royce on the counter and it sounds like one too! Good times will be had with this grinder, and I'm still in disbelief that I have one of my own. Almost a pay check but what the hell. Gotta live a little sometimes, right?
Okay, but what about the zerno?
Only seen it in use at EXPO, and I’ve been inundated with grinders this year so trying to not do all grinders all the time. Eventually I’ll get around to it.
Stay caffeinated pony boy!!
Zerno
I think it was a little unfair to give the new Versa cup a negative point for espresso because in the quick start manual they specifically call it out as “to use used in non 58mm portafilter applications”
I’m not sure what you’re saying here exactly, and mine came without a “Quick Start Guide”. But regardless if it’s not intended for a 58 why does it fit on top of one exactly? It definitely didn’t work well with the 53 I just had too.
And to be fair, if I’m understanding exactly what you’re saying, I’ll stand by my statement and add to it why bother making a doing cup for portafilters and leave out the most common size?
Hard to justify the $1000 difference between P64 and DF64V.
never thought i’d be one of those guys but, first
Every comment boosts in the algo, so you’ll hear no complaints from me.
@@Sprometheusoh. In that case 34th!
I have a KafaTek Monolith Flat MAX at home I use for espresso and pour over. It's pretty expensive and took me 2 years to get. For my office pour over grinder I could not justify another Monolith. I tried a Fellow Ode, I even upgraded the burrs. A Balmundi Natural tasted of strawberry and tobacco on the Monolith, and of damp earth and hessian on the Ode, same coffee. Brewler showed why, Ode alignment not up to it. Replaced the Ode with P64, acceptable. Still no comparison, for your end game grinder set your sights on KafaTek Monolith Flat MAX. Don't be fooled by sexey but stepped and under powered Eg-1.