The Enlightenment Fraud of Zen Master Rama
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2023
- Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, a college professor and self-proclaimed Zen master accumulated a loyal following of meditation students, taking them across the United States on a mission to achieve Enlightenment. It did not go well.
Joe Szimhart: / @josephszimhart9431
Jim Picariello:
jimpicariello.com/
Further reading/viewing/listening on the topic:
"Take Me For a Ride" by Mark Laxer: www.gutenberg.org/files/162/1...
"What is Dancing?" music video by Zazen: • Video
Full Larry King interview with Lenz (1988): • Zen Master Rama 1 - La... - Zábava
Official soundtrack by Ryan Probert: czcams.com/video/w0QvjlnVfYs/video.html
Atrocity Guide merch: atrocityguide.com
Patreon: www.patreon.com/atrocityguide
Twitter: twitter.com/AtrocityGuide
New vid !Lets go!
Love your channel!! ❤❤❤
Link to slave Obeys?
Wow Lenz sounds like he created a Gulag Archipelago
So glad you’re back!
Their past lives are never like “I was some guy who worked in a rice paddy or a medieval Irish peasant,” it’s always “I was a samurai/Viking warrior/Italian nobleman”
Because in their mind "enlightened" just means "rich." They want to meditate cause they think it will make them money, which is good cause they'll need to pay to learn to meditate. All the worst things about capitalism meets all the worst things about religion.
They are usually notable people- because we have almost always heard of them. Of course being an anonymous peasant farmer, a serf, or a slave, or a prostitute or beggar, or even simply dying during one's infancy, would be more likely- but where's the fun in that? (What is the lesson? Life is drudgery, but nothing is eternal[?]) We can't *all* have been Cleopatra in a past life.
or the flea on the butt of a Dromedary in Uzbekistan.
Sure that's nothing, I was Napoleon!!
I remember seeing a very funny cartoon featuring a large group of women in Egyptian costumes under a sign that said "Convention of former Cleopatras". To one side there was a door that led to the Convention of former Napoleons.
Imagine being a Zen master from Japan in the 1500s only to be reincarnated as an American man with a perm in the 1980s.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
that's karma for ya
😂😂😂😂😂
In fairness, that's an extraordinarily and tremendously *_gorgeous_* perm.
I can't thank you enough for this video. I was a follower of Lenz having been influenced into joining the group at age 13 by my father and step-mother who became his students in 1980 in San Diego when he was known as "Atmananda."
I still remember going to my first seminar in Los Angeles it was 1986, by that time he was known as "Rama." I was 13 and by 2 nights of his talks I was utterly hooked, in love, seeing light, realizing the "truth" etc. I'm sure it helped that we were in a fancy hotel, it was a weekend away and we were just average lower middle class people, we couldn't even afford real vacations, so it was all so special and worldly. All of my dad's fellow students were there just so excited that his daughter was at a seminar, they were all very nice people. Also, it helped that the father I adored was completely brainwashed by Lenz's teachings at the time and had been a devoted student disciple along with my step mother since I was 8 years old.
Everything in this documentary is true and more. I grew up literally believing "Atmananda" and then "Rama" was a god and also steeped in a mish mash of Hindu and Buddhist lore and "teachings" along with pop culture that was "Rama approved" such as the books to read, movies to watch, etc. Ironically those "magical" photos taken by Harry Langon were what finally convinced me at age 13 to go to see him. Although my dad and step mother had been devoutly following him for years, and my dad even was one of his bodyguards, my dad never forced us which was really good of him though he did encourage us and eventually brought my brother, me, his mother (my grandmother) and his sister (my aunt) to seminars. Only I was naive enough to fall completely for Lenz.
After being a devout but rather anonymous student for about 3 years, starting age 16 Lenz began to groom me with extra attention at seminars. I was eventually invited to be his personal assistant (read mistress - which 17 year old knows how to be a mistress, I certainly didn't). I eventually endured 8 years of very personal abuse at this person's hand, psychological, sexual, emotional, financial, spiritual, as well as physical abuse from age 17 to 25. I saw a quote recently that he claimed he never psychologically or physically abused a person in his life, that is an outright lie as I lived it. He would love bomb you (trips, limousine rides, clothes) and then abuse you (mentally, emotionally, and sometimes physically), and completely gaslight you (it's all your fault, you bring your own misery, you force me to act this way, you have negative energy, etc.), then "rescue" you; it would swing back and forth in an exhausting and humiliating and degrading cycle for years. I didn't see my family for nearly 10 years (including my father who was eventually "Kicked out" of the group in the mid 90's and excommunicated to Hawaii, thankfully my dad found a more loving female spiritual teacher after that or at least more loving than Lenz who was absolutely paranoid and power hungry but kept it well hidden in certain settings).
Lenz absolutely separated people from their families I think most often those he was closest to would bear the brunt of his paranoia and abusive and highly demanding personality, although he definitely spread it around to his closer students in general (not just the women he was having sex with). My mother fought for my return for years, but I continually believed she was just trying to control me. As I was essentially one of his (many, probably dozens if not hundreds) of personal assistants and students he used for sex for over 8 years, it was pretty much forbidden to have contact with family, I was weak and being controlled by them and not serious about my spiritual path if I even mentioned it. He mysteriously always managed to find a reason to take me on a trip when family was visiting from CA, etc. I literally didn't see my brother, mother or extended family members between late 1989 until after his death. I didn't even talk to them on the phone. I had both my dear nana and my grandfather pass away during this time and I still never saw or spoke with any of them - that is how complete his control was over me at least and by this documentary so many others too which is really eye-opening to see this was how he operated across the board.
The greatest gift I think I was given at that time of my life was truly his death; I'm not sure I would have left the group of my own accord. My family wasn't perfect, no one's family is, but they were very loving and we were all very close and he had no right to separate me from them or others from their families. He was completely in love with himself and did whatever it took aside from killing people to manipulate and get what he wanted. I think he was truly psychopathic he really did believe everything he said and believed he had all of these powers. I suppose he inherited some of this sickness from his own guru, the footage of Chimnoy was so interesting and revealing, but he may have been even better at abusing people, I think. He certainly was clearly trying to one up his teacher his whole life that comes through quite clearly in the documentary and I never had that realization before. Lenz was perhaps the more dangerous of the two though it looks like from what I can tell, given all of the women he abused, and even seeing my own father's mental state over the years being his student. Lenz actually told me himself I should be afraid of him, alternately saying love is all there is. What a mind game. He was a classic abuser in a time when not very much was known about this behavior at least not by average people like me a teenage girl in the 80's, a father with mental imbalances, a divorced mother struggling with poverty, etc.. , I was a child following my father and even he a grown man was expertly manipulated by a deceitful and expert narcissist who craved absolute power but pretended he didn't and said publicly all the things that sound good, liberal, progressive, open minded, loving, funny, supportive of women, prescient, etc..
I am amazed that this footage and information exists, that I could at last see a more objective piecing together of a history and time period I lived through, and that someone cared enough to create something that others can benefit and learn from. I deeply appreciate Jim Picariello and Mark Laxer and others sharing these stories. I believe Jim Picariello and I are the same age and I may have seen him in the group he certainly looks familiar, his story is the story of so many people. Thank you for also telling it in a way Jim that brings a little levity especially in your blog, because yes it really truly was that unbelievable and crazy! Jim, it's admirable that you got out so quickly. A heartfelt thank you to the cult specialist and CAN too who are featured in this video; I was taught to always fear CAN, ironically when all along Lenz was the person I should have been wary of. Learning that Scientology sued CAN and drove their important work out of business was very eye-opening. And that CAN never sanctioned the kidnappings, it was misguided family members.
What an important documentary and truly a gift, thank you.
this is very insightful and heartbreaking to read. thank you for sharing this!
thanks for sharing your story.. glad you survived 💛
Thank you for your honest sharing of your story. It is heartbreaking to see genuine spiritual teachings distorted and used to the end of narcissistic "guru" abusers and so sad that you were subjected to it. I hope you have found healing in your life.
Thank you for sharing your story! I hope you have gotten help and/or therapy since then and have people in your life that truly want the best for you.
Bend over, close your eyes, and let me have your wallet.
"this man can turn a room gold in 60 seconds, interior decorators HATE him!"
8 weird tips to turn your room gold!
Every cult leader be like “I want to liberate your wives and girlfriends from the shackles of monogamy”
That guy talking about his friend leaving, not cuz Goldilocks was fucking his girlfriend but because he felt it wasn't fair he couldn't fuck Goldilocks too, killed me
🤣
ayy shooter shoot yk
That was a common thing in past lives, I suppose, especially in the cultures he was emulating.
"...and be my spirtual wife, one of many"😂
The hard cuts to Sri Chinmoy slamming on various instruments like a frustrated toddler gets me every time, lol.
It´s absolutely brutal. The sound of his "music" is the refutation to everything that man ever stood and worked for.
@@Lenn869 That's definitely true, but I'm curious what instrument he's playing at 18:10. Sounds so familiar to me.
@brandoncherry6264 It's probably a Korg MIDI Synthesiser. Used heavily in film soundtracks in order films. May sound familiar as they used these for a lot of retro videogames too
23:29
“Musical compositions” Those people in the audience had to have been brainwashed not to laugh at his piano “pieces”
Atrocity Guide sarcastically showing Sri Chinmoy's "compositions" every time they come up and not passing a single comment on them is probably the funniest recurring bit in this entire video.
Makes me giggle every time, her sense of humor is so dry and on point. I love it.
I guess the drugs really were better back then.
Producing 6,000 (?) paintings , I imagine many found “minimalist, pure, modern”etc.But MUSIC? You can’t fake it as easily. “🧐Sir, that is Quite Enough.put the kazoo away . I demand a refund.”
It almost reminded me of Yoko Ono “singing” with Chuck Berry. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@icu3869 The music was terrible for an un-enlightened soul like me!
That dude's story of how he rejected his Fiancé after she had a moment of clarity and decided she wanted to stay with him is heart breaking.
Seriously I just passed that part and I just…how could he be brainwashed THAT quickly?
@Thenewboidahlia why are you blaming the victim?
@@dollarestoreoffbrand5545 I feel like he needs to take accountability for the woman he hurt. Just because you get brainwashed by a cult doesn’t mean you’re free from the hurt you caused people. And I’m sure leaving his fiancé the way he did definitely hurt her.
@@Thenewboidahlia im sure he did apologize and reconcile with her, but didn't speak on it or it wasn't included in this vid.
@@Thenewboidahlia I agree, he acted like the whole thing was so funny and cute. He struck me as an asshole, he’s surprisingly arrogant for someone who’s been brainwashed
I encountered Sri Chinmoy's cult in the late 90s, they tried to recruit me after I attended a couple of the free meditation classes. It didn't work because my parents had told me about some of the red flags that indicate a religious or spiritual group may be a cult. I had grown up not far from a rather notorious sex cult so my parents had good reason to be concerned (the leader of that cult was eventually arrested for abusing children in the cult).
With Sri Chinmoy's organisation the red flags were pretty obvious so I didn't take the bait but I did continue going to the vegetarian cafe they ran in town, mostly because vegetarians in the 90s didn't have the same options we have now. That was until they learned I'd been warning my friends that I thought they were a cult, after that I was politely asked not to come to their cafe anymore. So I gave my business to the Hare Krsna's down the road instead. They'd already tried and failed to recruit me but they weren't nearly as salty about it. Thanks Mum and Dad for teaching me how to spot a cult!😂
It sounds like you lived in Infoctrination City, USA. Glad you had attentive parents and critical thinking!
Krishnas at last seem harmless. Them and Falun Gong, while obviously wacko cults, seem to end up being abused and persecuted themselves far more than the other way around.
This is the most 90's story I've ever heard and I love it for that
Honestly. Sri Chimnoy’s organization is probably one of the most innocuous of the cults. The worst that would’ve happened is you would’ve become a professional runner. If anything, Hare Krishnas are known for brainwashing.
I'm glad you were forewarned. I'm also a vegetarian and the options we get are still so limited. It's interesting that you mention the Krishnas. When I was a broke teenager the Krishnas had a weekly feeding on the college campus. Their food was really good! However, I have heard over and over again that they lace the food with saltpeter to "dampen sexual urges". I don't know how much truth there is to that. I do know that the potatoes they served (my favorite!) always had a residue on the plate that looked like antifreeze. It didn't stop me from eating it, though it might be worth mentioning, I've had lifelong issues with my libido health. I doubt it could all be due to eating saltpeter once a week, but it bears consideration.
“I’m surprised he tried to kill other beings, that’s very un-Buddhist” fave quote right there
Watching that guy randomly play a bunch of instruments will never not be hysterical
Lenz accidentally channeling Karl Marx and then immediately demanding $2,000 for a 5-day course is one hell of a character arc
@@neildear2502ahahahahahahaha. I love liars. You make me laugh.
@@fawnieee HA! HA! HA! You crack me up, typical commie, deny reality and history, what he stated is FACT, look it up or are you too stupid to do that?
@@fawnieee Well not really, the guy was always indebted, through living at large at the expense of others.
@@fawnieeehe isn’t lying. The fact that you don’t agree with what he’s saying doesn’t mean that it’s all a lie.
Absolutely… I mean, any serious Marx-quoting Communist wouldn’t have stopped to 2000$ for a 5-day course. They would have demanded everything you owned and gave you a three hour speech and a copper medal to commemorate it.
The guy looks like if Bob Ross entered the Matrix.
I'm surprised you aren't one of the top comments.
And lived on LSD suppositories
@@thelordz33 I know right?
*exited
@@-xirx- 😮😂
OH MY GOD I went to Sri Chinmoy's cafe for YEARS in Seattle. I saw all the paintings and the poems that were placed at each table. This is wild - I did not know this backstory at ALL
Good waffles.
As a Bangladeshi Hindu, I don't know whether to cringe or apologize on the behalf of my community.
to cringe
We have all got them :-(
Ha! That's funny. It's not your fault dude. Nothing to do with me either.
For one weirdo? It's okay. His "lifts" are how I first heard of him.
If you weren't involved in these kinds of cults, you have nothing to apologise for.
It's just regrettable that so many lives were lost as a result of what people like Frederick Lenz and Chinmoy did, but it can't really be fully blamed on their victims.
Seeing cult survivors going on to become experts in the field is very heartening to see. Brilliant documentary.
That's how everyone becomes an expert - experience.
To be a cult leader survivor would have been to see it, smell it, and walk in the opposite direction. It´s natural that they enter, some people need to be guided by whatever group, person, movement, it´s their personality. Then they become "survivors of" and that is another cult, but they are always in a cult.
the idea of a human is a cult .. . this world is a cult. . a real nasty one
@@ptrck99 what
My wife's Sociology advisor, Janja Lalich, is a cult survivor who teaches about them at Chico State and has written several books and appears frequently in documentaries, particularly on Heaven's Gate.
I never considered adding my past lives to my resume. This guy is a genious.
😄
😂😂
This could especially work for you if you're looking for a job in any of the more esoteric communities.
True. I think I might make a jokey one tomorrow and see if I get a job.....watch this space :D
@@Jizzlewobbwtfcus You must let us know how this goes for you! 😀
Atrocity calmly and matter-of-factly discussing Sri Chenmoy's ~compositions~ before playing a clip of him literally banging on a piano with his fist is absolutely hilarious
It reminded me of when I was learning how to play the paino as a kid. It sounded exactly like that when I'd fool around with my piano-- I'd play random notes and do a lot of key smashing 😂
Honestly his grift would have been so much more impressive if he was actually good at the instruments he played
Genuinely wrenched a laugh from me. Atrocity seemed to time the cuts perfectly, pure comedic gold.
This guy never learned about quality over quanttity.
That Kazoo cut though 😂😂😂
I love the cut to him playing a squeaky chicken, err, I mean Kazoo
I remember meeting Chinmoy in the 80s in Oxford where he was holding a session at a friend's house. He was such an obvious charlatan I couldn't understand how anyone could take him seriously.
I think people are confusing enlightenment with backlighting.
Brings flashbacks from my childhood, my mom collected shady gurus and spent insane amounts of money on retreats, trips to India, I don't know what. She wanted to hear that she was special, close to enlightenment, their best student, her husband, her kids were bad people dragging her down and of course the gurus told her whatever she wanted to hear. When I was like 10 or 11 years old she got a headache while driving and decided I was trying to kill her (a guru told her I'm a malignant being that can kill people with their thoughts or something like that, she kept telling these gurus she has this horrible monstrous child at home) and she proceeded to hit me, yell at me, lock me in my room, she didn't let me out for more than a day, no food, no water, and would periodically come back and yell at me, I was sobbing, it was hell, I was apologizing for something that's impossible. My dad finally came back from a work trip or something, he avoided being home for obvious reasons, and somehow talked her out of it. I hate all this shit so much, I tried to start a yoga course and I just couldn't handle the vibes.
trauma based mind control is A) very real B) why the CIA loves it so much C) why do you think the hollywood child actors get regularly molested so early on :/ Lifelong assets.
I’m so sorry. No one deserves this. I hope you’re life is full of happiness and safety ❤
I had a super fun childhood too. A completely different situation but it was what I now know is my Mom's mental illness but back then I didn't understand why things were so awful so often. we were very isolated so I assumed everybody else's life must have been shit too. It wasn't until I spent a couple of days staying at a friend's house that I realized most people don't live with constant mental abuse punctuated frequently with horrific violence. I think that made it much worse since I realized some people's homes were more refuge than torture chamber so I felt robbed on top of everything else. We were poor and I'm from one of the worst shit holes in America so my public school experience was often worse than home...
Shit, I'm sorry. I'm hijacking your comment. I sincerely hope you find peace.
@@hideousruin That's ok, thanks for sharing, I know many people had a shitty childhood, I hope you're doing ok out there.
i hope you’re in a better place now :)
19:30 “perpetual beginner” is a pretty apt description of the musical and artistic performances from that guru. He was demonstrating a beginner-level grasp of the artforms, and focusing only on quantity. Writing one moving sonnet is more impressive than writing 1000 bits of word salad. Paining one masterpiece is more impressive than ten thousand simple drawings. Mastering one instrument is more impressive than playing at a beginner level on 100. These displays of skills wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle are just a way to try and impress without any of the hard work to master an art.
No hard work, no bueno
💯 Fear not a man who has practiced 10 000 kicks once, but the one who has practiced one kick 10 000 times.
He claimed to have composed 1000's of songs as well but I'll be damned if be wasn't improvising every single time.
As someone who has survived a narcissistically abusive romantic relationship, the similarities between a cult leader and a domestic abuser are striking. The gaslighting, the isolation, the honeymoon phase where they make you not only believe their deceptive claims but make you feel them as real too. These cult leaders are just doing the same thing at scale and it always ends bad.
It's just awful. They're all malignant narcissist/psychopaths. I was adopted into a family heavily involved in the Freemasonry cult, they were also involved in organized crime with ties to the mafia. They ran a child porn production/trafficking ring. I was trafficked from age 2 into my 20's, subjected to trauma based mind control and it's been absolute hell getting out and deprogramming. I had D.I.D from it all, my psyche was fractured on purpose to keep me silenced. I also ended up in one bad situation after another, no surprise there. Doing well now though. People who live through these experiences have a lot to overcome and it's anything but easy.
Yep, abuse tends to just be a repetition of the same tactics in most cases. I will say the correct term is emotional abuse, not narcissistic abuse- that’s an important distinction, “narcissistic abuse” is a term that comes from online psuedopsychology meant to target abuse victims who develop things like BPD and NPD, not something actually recognised within psychology!
@@Deepseadread6 You are mistaken. Narcissistic abuse is real and super toxic. It is beginning to be more understood and recognized within psychology. Psychology has a long way to go, it's tended to be in denial about the highly toxic people because these people are so notoriously difficult and impossible to treat.
@@annemurphy8074 bro I have npd and I see a trained specialist every week I think I know what I’m talking about. My abuser had bpd and autism im not gonna start saying I experienced borderline or autistic abuse. Abusers should be held accountable for the choices they make, I wasn’t abused by a mental illness I was abused by an evil person who made the choice to abuse me
@@Deepseadread6 Good for you getting help, most people with NPD do not. Narcissistic abuse is a real thing, you don't have to take it personally.
The Sri Chinmoy musical interludes were much needed moments of comedic levity.
I have to wonder whether he believes his own b.s., or if he's sitting there thinking, "I can't believe they're actually taking this seriously."
@@caulkins69He probably had delusions of grandeur
When he was doing martial arts and stopped all of those guys without touching them I almost spit my coffee out laughing. Even the guy on the left was grinning. 😂
Gee it takes a lot of psychic control to force some idiot running at a fist pointed at your nose to stop before making contact.. Just plane silly reminds me of Steven the Seagull's performances of dojo technique and just about as staged.
anyone can do that. really
No touch knockdowns and knockouts are a well known martial arts scam, it never works on anyone but the 'sensei's own students...so it literally is a microcult.
That's weird - I was reading your comment right at that point in the video.
Must be a sign from the Supreme. 😂
It was funny!! The bald guy with the samauri dress was actually laughing 😃 as he pretended to go down from his 😅"energy"😊
If someone claims being enlightened it's a major red flag. People who have succeeded on their spiritual path, real masters, don't brag.
Charisma is ego, big charisma is big ego. I've met at least 1 master. There was no charisma about him but what he said was pure wisdom and kindness. Sharp as diamond.
i really think the dude gave his followers lsd because they offered free food and drinks which is a perfect way for giving someone lsd since its odorless and tasteless and it would explain why people would see stuff like this aura and all that which sounds to me exactly what microdosing is like and since he was known to use drugs it kinda makes sense tbh
There are no "real" masters. Only people.
Ex-Mormon content creator here. Documentaries like this are what helped me escape the cult of my upbringing. Great job!
Indoctrination as a child is hard to break. Ive always asked these ppl who haven't broken out yet: So im crazy for changing my perspective with new data, but you where told something young and never questioned it?
Surprised Sri Chenmoy (and other cult leaders) never realized that “composing a thousand songs” and “making a painting in 20 seconds” isn’t that impressive if each individual piece ranges in quality from completely unremarkable or embarassingly bad.
right? I don't really expect him (or others like him) to admit it's absurd as it's core to his schtick, but for goodness sake, did no objective observers come to this conclusion? He was somehow "in" at the UN, no less - how is that remotely possible?!
It's the L. Ron Hubbard method of churning out a ton of crap and then calling a large volume of work prolific. Quantity prized over quality
Gods work .
According to eyewitness former devotees, Chinmoy set up an assembly line of people handing him art materials like sponges, brushes, acrylics, and papers throughout the process. It was all carny stuff. Like most of his music and poems.
@@richarddickinson8704 any child could pick up an instrument and make sounds come out of it
i love this. i love the way you introduce the topic through the photographer, how you continue to emphasize the golden glow hallucination element. as a former cult member a lot of this resonated with me. seeing survivors speak so freely and frankly about the absurdity of their old realities makes me feel much less alone. this reminded me of a series on jonestown that also had interviews with survivors. thank you for giving us voices.
I've never slept with a cult member
Gonna have to press X to doubt on that fiction story of yours.
Cool that you're interested in lolcows though. Love my fellow kiwisisters
@@thekiwiclipper1113whatever helps you sleep at night
I thought that was a great entry point! This is an amazing doc. Kudos to you for escaping and healing from your experience!
The way he laughs when confronted with allegations of serious sexual abuse is so psychotic. If someone accused me of those things I would be angry, or defensive. But not treat it as a big lol.
Hi JJ!
This documentary was much better than content that I have viewed on major networks. Great job!
Your sense of humor is so golden lol. I LOVE the consistent playing of some of Chinmoy's "music" every single time it's mentioned.
I almost feel bad for laughing at those cuts since the rest of the video is so serious.
He's a musical genius! Hahahaha
"I only listen to REAL music"
It has a strong YTP vibe and I love it
Your sense of humor is so golden, you could make me laugh a thousand times per hour.
The cuts you did of Chinmoy 'playing' the instruments was perfection. I love when you can sense the message being portrayed purely through the editing.
Agreed. This is excellently organized and presented.
This isn't even improv. Like most musicians or bands can improvise, they don't call a jam session "writing 100500 songs" lmao. Even though, ironically, them just messing around is actually pleasant to listen to and can be (and often is) later turned into full compositions.
@@KasumiRINA at least he did them; I cannot believe Lens would take credit for just sitting there and 'cleansing' the music
@@KasumiRINAnonsense
@@petergoodfellow8752 Playing the same note at random intervals through a clay elephant's anus really stretches the definition of "improv jam session" and "song writing." 😂
Thanks! I used to work in television production and wrote for live tv, specials, and reports, I truly enjoyed this work, your research and writing and especially loved the neutrality of your reporting; something sorely needed now. God Bless
Interviewer: What do your followers do at your centers?
Sri Chinmoy: They listen to my sick trap beats and watch videos of me doing the Undertaker eyes
In my life, I have been an aspiring poet, author, painter, director, actress, singer, lyricist, programmer, and musician, and literally nobody cared. Turns out all I need to do is start a cult and everyone will see me as a creative genius, buy all my paintings, and pay $500 to listen to me bang a gong for 90 minutes. But I have morals, so I guess I'll just have to stay anonymous and broke.
And staying honest and true to yourself. 👍
After attending several new age events in Asheville a couple decades ago I thought the same thing. I thought if I could just manage a straight face, throw on a white robe, and pull some/any crazy idea out of my ass I’d have plenty of money to continue with my passions. But alas….
Yet, it remains baffling how the multitudes come swarming to these textbook narcissistic sociopaths passing themselves off as God incarnate - giving them their money, their bodies, and even their sanity.
@@annamossity8879Did you go see the Equadorian shaman who spoke in the back of the store with the giant drum, after it had closed? That was over 25 years ago, now. That was legit, but there weren't many people there, and he wasn't trying to get followers.
Yep! You & me both 🙃 I guess that’s why I don’t have my private jet 🛩️ never been able to take advantage of folks 🤷♀️ I’ve never been able to figure out how these people lead these cults and how they get people to believe them & why people believe so whole heartedly in these leaders 😳 I get loads of heat cause I won’t settle solely for any one religion or spiritual practice, so I’m not taken as seriously 🤷♀️🤷♀️ oh well good to know I’m not alone @rosem5062
It's a shame Scientology managed to destroy the Cult Awareness Network, they did important work
😮
Bruh that 'church' is powerful af. They are like THE cult.
Scientology is like a virus, worked it's way right into the ranks of the US government and pretty much every entity of power they could get their hands on. Theyre essentially a quasi-government operating unsanctioned within our borders. They're a domestic terrorist threat.
My uncle-in-law is Tony Ortega and my wife and her family have been stalked, harrased, threatened, blackmailed. They're serious, they will kill you or destroy your life for speaking out against them.
yes its a shame.they say the pen is mightier than the sword but I would look glady upon the Patriot that cleaved the long table of scientology into kindling and set it aflame into Eternity
@@matthewbrewster4647SP
It always amazes me to see what people will fall for.
The "entire" guru thing should be questioned. Any person who allows himself to be put on a pedestal and treated in an adoring and worshipful way, probably doesn't understand what love and Oneness are about.
To be fair, the idea of guru or 'teacher' goes back thousands of years and is commonplace is eastern cultures. Its not easy for our western minds to grasp because we are bombarded with so many frauds, which is unfortunate because it has tainted our views of spirituality. But thats also not bad because one should never blindly accept anyone as guru without deep prayer to God and proper diligence. In the end, a proper guru is just a teacher who leads you or provides the knowledge to have your own relationship with God directly.
@@SaveTheTrees333 Something isn't okay simply because it is commonplace and comes from the East.
I just broke up with a woman who is to this day a devoted disciple of Rama. She suffered so much trauma as a teenager before finding Rama, and saw him as the answer to her pain. I suspect many similar stories. I have compassion for her but she's too much into denial of her own issues.
Women from those regions know karma sutra.
It’s disgusting that anyone would be taken advantage of in this deeply personal (Spiritual betrayal) way- but esp someone who has experienced trauma. Wherever she is, I hope she’s safe. I’m sorry that you had to witness this too, it must have been so difficult.
Wow! Glad you had the good sense to get out of the relationship. 👍🏻
😊
Nope
I spent most of my time on CZcams watching weird and obscure stories and still this channel has never failed to show me something I've never heard about in my entire life
Same no matter what I find out about, this channel never disappoints.
Any other channel recommendations? I feel the same way about Atrocity Guide but I’ve seen all their videos lol
@@Forestfreud "unpredictable" is an alternative channel I found recently.
"Nexpo" for quality presentation
"Nick Crowley" for the most spooky and weird
"MrBallen" for good storytelling
"LazyMasquerade" for obscure unsolved cases
"Oki's Weird Stories" for the highest level documentaries ever
These are pretty much all my favourites
@@GasStationMan Oki's video about that guy who flew to the middle east and pretended to be in the US military is still the craziest thing I've ever seen.
For me it’s her voice. She could literally narrate the worst thing ever (and has) and it would be relaxing….
I've been studying cults on-and-off, as a weird hobby of sorts, close to a decade now. How they can distort the mind of intelligent people to believe gobbledygook is frightening to witness and is honestly scarier than anything Hollywood could ever produce. Virtually anyone could be a victim of it, all it needs are the right circumstances.
That said... as a music lover, I don't think any level brainwashing could ever convince me that a dude PUMMELING PIANO KEYS WITH HIS FIST and calling it music is a sign of an enlightened person.
When I watch cult leaders, often, it seems they believe in what they are saying themselves. It's easy to convince someone of something that they want to believe and are willing to logic skip in order to believe it. Especially if you think you're telling the truth yourself
Some really important musicians did the same exact thing during live performances, the first guy that comes to mind is Sun Ra, also others like Pharoah Sanders or Ornette Coleman were really noisy, however they were all really accomplished composers. This charlatan obviously didn't have a fraction of their skills.
This was masterful, thank you so much for making it. I was taken in by some free meditation courses offered by the Sri Chinmoy centre about 10 years ago. Thankfully just a bit of googling showed me the stories that the centre didn't want me to see and I never went back.
This channel is taking the whole "quality over quantity" thing to a whole new level. You get one or two videos PER YEAR but as reward for your patience you get a TV broadcast quality documentary each time.
We've become accustomed to seeing documentaries and news that portray the world in a certain way. And so Fox News and CNN have different viewpoints that cater to different markets. Both have some valid points but neither is a complete picture of what's happening in the world. The same is true here. This is a very one sided projection of someone who touched the lives of thousands of people over a span of more than 20 years.
@@nezahuatez I said that they have different viewpoints (clearly American viewpoints) and that neither is a complete picture of what is happening in the world. The American spectrum of beliefs is clearly not all encompassing of all viewpoints in the world. My point is that this video focuses on one viewpoint. And so when someone calls it a 'quality' video they sound brainwashed to me.
@@NoOne-oy7ftHe coerced women to have sex with him. And drugged people. Just because many people had positive outcomes doesn't mean he was a good person. He's no better than a televangelist.
@@NoOne-oy7ft You think someone is brainwashed because they think something is good?
Fucking hell, grow up.
Better than TV!
My favorite thing about Atrocity Guide is that every video feels closer and closer to a professional documentary
These are professional documentary... How did a television equal professional to you...
I hope you’re still making videos! I love your documentaries ❤
I just discovered your channel, and I am obsessed with it, I’ve been streaming these documentaries on my television for hours.
I can _absolutely_ see Jesse Eisenberg playing this guy if someone ever did a biopic on him.
Damn, this documentary was utterly stellar. Excellent work!
that would be amazing, good casting haha
Or the Napolean Dynamite guy.
@@AJWRAJWRJon Heder.
@@AshTheAntiHeroor Michael Cera, whose quotable quote is, "I am not Jesse Eisenberg "
@@quickchris10lol do you think he can come off serious enough for the role?
It's always so funny when you see these cult leaders, and they have these creepy smiles and vacant eyes, but for the right person that somehow translates to benevolent and knowing and peaceful. It's amazing what you can make people believe by maintaining eye contact and speaking with confidence
@@Tufticles I think we gotta remember that it looks sillier today because of how far computer graphics have went
For some reason their vacant expressions makes me extremely irritated lol
there are people out there with PhDs who believe there was a jew somewhere who could walk on water. people will buy anything
The last sentence hits hard as it applies to con men, propagandists and dictators equally. The moment we saw putin having that empty smile expression saying he doesn't know why would anyone attack civilians yesterday, we could guess that this night a major attack against our cities will be launched... Yet still not as creepy as Simonyan swearing about them never attacking civilians.
It's a psychopath smile. They're natural liars too. They enjoy lying to people's faces. The more egregious the better.
@Kuwandak wow really edgy and cool! Equating a religion with a long established history, and a pre-woke BS spiritual cult is totally accurate. Absolute reddit tier neckbeard comment. I'm not even religious, you're comment is just so cringe. Cope seeth dilate and ACK
I've been watching you videos for quite some time, but this one was just amazing! Keep up the good work!
This is my favorite channel on youtube. Thank you for the great work
Lenz was going around saying "just learn to code, bro" decades before it became popular. He was truly ahead of his time.
Isn't it inspiring to see a guru ascend to such heights of spiritual enlightenment that he needs to fuck your girlfriend?
He was a complete conman a narcissist and a fraud, he didn't have a spiritual bone in him !
In early computers, learning code was necessary to make most things happen. For very basic stuff, you had to memorise long complex commands. I'm 65 and learned coding in the 1980s.
My friends at uni, now 70, learned coding to do their science assignments.
Learn to weld now
@@elipotter369 You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, boomer.
I've never seen a more brutal takedown than those hardcuts to Shr Chenmoy playing an instrument like a toddler.
Thank you so much for this. As a half-indian, gurus like these have done so much harm to the world. My gran was a devotee of Satya Sai Baba, guess how that turned out... My mom was lucky, she hung her spiritual progress on J. Krishnamurti, who was raised to be the Theosophist World Teacher. However, in his early adulthood, he completely renounced the mission that had been imposed to him when he was young and spent the rest of his life encouraging people to seek their own paths, not to copy him or any other guru. When my mum heard that, she was like, "Oh, I guess he's right." And that was the end of her time following gurus 😂 Fascinating guy, though. Kidnapped from his father because he seemed gullible, trafficked around the world by his captors to avoid his dad's lawsuits, left to suffer from an epileptic condition because it was "bringing him closer to the Ascended Masters", held up to a huge occult society as a messianic figure from the age of 14, losing his brother... And yet, he still managed to break out and even had a long term relationship with a lady whose kid he helped raise. He'd make a good subject for a video.
"Lives in the Shadow with J. Krishnamurti" is a book written by the daughter of the married woman who the author claims Krishnamurti carried on an affair with for 25 years. Three secret abortions, bitter legals battles, etc. Not many teachers seem to walk their own talk these days, sadly, though some do teach certain things well.
@@jonmustang UG was right about Jiddu. So was Crowley funnily enough.
Seeing this guy promote materialism while calling himself a zen master was so bizarre
@@jonmustang I like J Krishnamurtis message about never following a guru, even himself. And learning about these dark secrets of J Krishnamurti helped to confirm this message for me funnily enough.
@@sean4128 That's what I always thought too. 🤷♀️
Enlightenment does not require money.
Really well done. I haven't seen your channel before but I'm glad it was on my page! This was exactly the kind of content I like--very professional, in-depth and polished, and the narration is very calming as well. Quality!!!
Thank you so much for discussing the dissolution of the Cult Awareness Network. So many people think cults are poorly organized and subsist of fringe members who aren't smart enough to avoid the pitfalls, but the amount of money and control they exert allow them to escape accountability and ensnare regular people once their guard is down. Much respect to Joe and Jim for speaking out.
Wonderful video as always!
Thank you!!!
"Having sex with my students is not physical, it's a strictly spiritual interchange"
"Oh cool, then can I h-"
"No men"
Scientology really is that despicable…
Absolutely loved this episode! Excellent work.
An excellent doc.
I was an ex-Moonie; and I was also featured on that San Francisco show - People Are Talking.
C.A.N. was important to my reintegration into mainstream society. Being in a cult means you’re living in a totalism that average people cannot understand. The ways that cult leaders manipulate your ‘reality’ is very similar; whether the basis of the teachings are Buddhist, Hindu, Christian or aliens from space: they all distort your autonomy and perspective: centering on themselves as ‘enlightened’.
Thank you for sharing, I hope you’re in a good place in life ❤
You can now call yourself enlightened as you've removed yourself from the cult and embarked on a journey back to yourself which is not one that everyone can take on.
I always feel that leaving a certain situation and reflecting back on it gives the best clarity and "enlightenment". You can't know one without knowing or understanding the other.
Now you can pass on that light of knowing what a cult experience is before other people get sucked into it.
Now I'm questioning whether I have been sucked into the youtube cult and I realize that I've been a devoted youtube consumer ..dare I say addict.
CZcams is Wallstreet of thought exchange 😅
I was raised by a Christian cultist. I remember seeing one of these interviews with Lenz in the mid-90's and thinking he was a charlatan, but even so, I was in my late 20's before I got physically far enough away from the source of my brainwashing to pop out of it, just as the experience that was described in this video.
The whole "I have the secret answers, and I will teach you the real truth" is such a powerful model, that even when I thought my doubts might be real, I was still brainwashed to look for someone to give me the answers, so I didn't strike out on my own until circumstances forced me to trust myself.
It took over a year on my own before it suddenly hit me that A. I had been brainwashed since childhood, and B. the brainwashing had just worn off.
One of the saddest scariest things with cults is that even when you do begin to understand how they manipulate a person, it’s still extremely hard sometimes impossible, to deprogram them. I mean look at how modern MLM cults operate. A core part of their indoctrination has actually become doing the typical deprograming session themselves, but strawmaning the points and countering with their own cute little “well actually”s. When in the past you might be able to show someone a couple videos and tell them a few things and they go “wow. Oh my god I’m in a cult.” Nowadays they’ve been prepped and prepped again on what people’s arguments will be and how to respond to them.
CAN was a good group. One time in college a guy invited to a free lunch and I ended up getting an hour lecture on spirituality. I called CAN out of curiosity and they told me it was a subgroup of the Moonies and sent me a bunch of interesting information for free. This was in the times before internet. 😉
This was one of the best videos like this I have ever seen. Great job!
I entered college in 1980 (Oregon State). There was no shortage of cults recruiting: Maranatha, Greeks, eastern religions, western religions.
They all approached you in the same way: life is hard, we'll help, we'll give you a ready-made community for you to be part of.
Most of these students just left home for the first time and are feeling a little lost, alone and are vulnerable.
I wasn’t aware that “Greeks” were a cult
I don't think you know what a cult is....😂
dictionary "a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."
Yeah, I think I nailed it.
May I ask,what do you mean with Greeks ?? I ask because I'm Greek but as far as I know,this does not describe a cult but an ethnic group,lol.
@@sirapos6550 Sorry, "Greeks" in America refer to fraternities and sororities. These are social and residential groups at universities and are very tribal and insular. They offer a ready-made communities as long as you are willing to follow their rules and beliefs, are loyal and will endure a hazing/initiation process plus pay money, of course.
I always wonder how many of these "gurus" actually start to believe their own BS, but it's clear from Lenz' interview with Larry King that he was just an opportunist, a narcissist, a user of people. The way he laughs away the accusations, especially the ones about the horrid things he did to the one young woman, show that he was just evil, plain and simple.
Excellent video, as always. It's exciting to to see a new Atrocity Guide video pop up because I know I'm going to get an incredibly well-done documentary on something really interesting. Thank you for what you do!
I think most of them do believe their nonsense eventually, if you lie about have special knowledge or powers enough and among a group that completely believes you it's very easy to get caught up in your own narcissism. Regardless none of these people can do any of their magic around skeptics, any and all attempts to scientifically document these people are either complete and utter failures or people in the pocket of these con artists.
I’ve often wondered this as well, like I always assumed they were conscious of the grift, however with so
A few of these groups it’s really hard to tell by a certain point. Like Marshall applewhite I think believed his own bullshit, for one example.
He had enough self awareness to see through Chinmoy's ploy, but decided to use this for his own personal benefits.
It's all we need to know, really.
(I don't know for Chinmoy, but I have no doubt Lenz is the worst kind of grifters)
I think he was both malicious and believed largely in what he taught ... I mean, look at how he died. When his beliefs involved him being special and chosen it would benefit his malice to believe it.
Literally this. First half of the video I thought maybe he was one of those guys who literally believed he was all these things (doesn't make it better, but tends to come less from a terrible place), but once that interview was shown with him laughing at accusations and outright denying them, it was clear he was malicious through and through. Really disgusting to watch.
I’ve actually seen Sri chinmoy in a theatre in San Diego. They were giving out tickets to this “free music concert” at the organic co-op. I knew nothing of who he was but like hey whatever. Let’s go hear music. At the beginning a man who said he was a student of Sri chinmoy started talking about these positive messages made to make you happy. They had his “paintings” across the stage that looked like crayon scribbles. Chinmoy’s thing at the time was “lifting up the World”. He traveled around and would put famous people on a platform probably 5ft high Then he would stand under and push the platform up like some kind of bodybuilder feat. They showed videos of him doing this. Finally he came out and didn’t talk. Just started grabbing instruments and creating the most awful sounds you’ve ever heard. Me and my brother were debating about staying because we didn’t want to be rude. In the end we walked out mid “song”. I’ve never walked out of any show/lecture/play no matter how bad. It was the most terrible noise (and I’d heard the worst b-sides thom york had to offer so that’s saying something). Knowing what I know now I wish I’d stayed to hear what he said for curiosity sake. I heard several years later he died. Not a riveting story but true and shows you never know who people might see as some guru. I never got it.
All of his concerts were like that. The students would work, for free, for weeks or months to promote the concert, staying up all night 'postering' the area, handing out leaflets, etc. to fill the auditorium, and it would work for the most part, that is, until the concert started. Usually within 30 minutes of Chinmoy playing, the auditorium would be empty of any people except his students. It went on like this for years. He was rather proficient on the Esraj (Indian stringed instrument) but that was about it. Maybe if he just stuck with that, although even that was only 'proficient' not brilliant. But he insisted on playing all kinds of odd instruments, mostly so badly people would just walk out.
@@stevew1487 did you ever see him? I didn’t know anything about him until a couple months after. I thought he was just some wannabe edgy artist self help guru type but the way he carried himself seemed so narcissistic to me. I didn’t understand why anybody liked him.
@@addybishop308 Yea, I was his student or 'disciple' on and off for 17 years. The reason is because I wanted to live a spiritual life. Even though I was born in America I felt Eastern religions were more intellectually rigorous and closer to 'the truth', and Chinmoy made some very lofty claims for himself regarding his own spiritual achievements, so I knew even back then he was either telling the truth or was a sociopathic narcissist. I chose to believe the former, but eventually found out it was the latter. I don't blame his students, they were trying to find truth, the one who exploits that sincerity with lies and deception is the one to blame.
@@stevew1487- His followers are mor0ns. It is SO obvious that the man was a creep and a fraud. It's unfathomable how stupid people are.
Great video. I wasn't notified about it 3 months ago but glad i came to check
Those karate video clips combined with his hair and the yelling are flatout hilarious
I was listening to this while washing dishes and found myself pleasantly surprised when one of those... compositions... suddenly turned into a rather competent and fun little tune. Then I glanced over to the screen to realize it had just been a perfectly timed ad break for tiktok.
I do always find it fascinating to hear former cult members and the like talk candidly about their history with it.
I’ve lost my very first love to Sri Chimnoy. My then love-of-my-life never touched the ground with his feet again. It was quite remarkable. He killed himself in 1989, left a note saying he was now completely floating. I never had the power to try and bring him back. I didn’t want to get mixed up in it, but a lot of our friend circle was messed up in it and they have suffered.
How tragic. I'm so sorry.
my condolences, sincerely
@@tanga1000mil Thank you. It ‘a been so long ago, but he was my first ‘true’ love and then he got all messed up in this, and I still wonder how life life been with him in it.
@grizzlybear4 Thank you! 😊
Lmao
That was so damn good. So well done! Ur channel has been so enlightening and captivating.. can’t wait for more!!
How is this channel so underscribed 😢 you deserve so much more love!
I would pay cold hard cash to have seen Lenz to go up against anyone minutely trained in martial arts.
He was definitely a bullshido artist
Or a real fighter.
Those clips were cracking me up!!
I’d love to go up against him 😃
Or literally any grown up that wanted to kick his ass.
Always a great year when Atrocity returns out of nowhere after 9 months
Yeah, now we just need the return of Lemmino
@@LanceBeckman I'll give it another three months and he'll drop two hours content
Always a great hour when Heisenberg continually announces his omnipresence.
@@LanceBeckman and Fredrik Knudsen
And we were Alla waiting and checking in on the channel! Neat!
Really incredible work, so beautiful comprehensive and well written. The interviews are really the cherry on top of a great video. As someone who has been taken in by narcissists, it’s really interesting to see the exact breakdown of how it’s done. I also love how the information is revealed in sequence, like princes of a puzzle coming together!
The longer it takes to make a new video the more excited I am to see how much research went into it
Love the part where Lenz talks about all his accomplishments: being well read, knowing about math, computer science, not being a bigot and helping wherever he can, being incredibly street smart etc. The only thing missing was "and I'm also very humble" 😂 so obscure. I'm surprised he only took out himself and tried to take one other person with him.
Seems like he did intend to take a few others out considering his dogs and the woman at his house overdosed
Unironically ahead of his time
His vanity and form of performative tolerance would fit right in modern internet culture, he'd most definitely be an Instagram "influenceooooor"
But that Perm is just as challenging to me 43 years after such things were socially acceptable for blokes .
Typical Narcissist.
@@newforestpixie5297 Bloody awful fashion.
Imagine devoting all of those hours to playing instruments and not developing musical talent. That's enlightenment, folks.
Nah that's insanity fam😂
I was thinking the same thing with the painting/artwork. All of those are small so it isn't impossible to reach 1000 in a day. If it was like big artwork and really detailed art work then it would be amazing.
@@kenlee2923 Yeah. Anyone can throw paint on paper.
There are a couple of instruments that Chinmoy could play properly tbf. He just decided to pretend he could play 100 for some reason.
@@THICCTHICCTHICC Gotcha. Interesting.
I agree with most comments that describe this doc as really really good. Excellent way of telling a story, kudos to everyone who was involved in making it. And this guy with the Italian name, he's really witty and humorous.
Comments for the algorithm. And also, love your work, you’re one of my favourite deep dive CZcamsrs and I hope to see more of your stuff
I was in meditation and prayer last night I was awakened by a shining bright light Overhead, a glorious spirit He gave me a message and you all need to hear it [Chorus] He said to Send me your money That's what he said, he said to Send me your money
Banger
Or, "give your money to God .. but make the check out to me..."
Like moths to a flame 😂
Your address? Cheques are OK?
The temptation to treat this with snark and irony must have been overwhelming. I am a veteran print journalist, but I would not have been able to restrain myself. My hat's off to you for this fine doc.
The irony is present, especially in the clips of Chinmoy's creative genius, but it is understated, so it does not intrude.
'When the student is ready, the teacher appears' is only the first part of the quote. 'When the seeker arrives, the master disappears,' I think is the whole passage. Perhaps his purpose was to recruit coders. Wonder in what discipline his PhD was.
@@quickchris10 I kept waiting for that to be revealed and it never was. Maybe not relevant, but still a flaw in the reporting because I'm sure we weren't the only ones wondering.
I think the characters hang themselves by their own rope just fine. All you need to do is display it.
@@quickchris10 Lenz's PhD was in philosophy; though from the documentary it was just as credibly a doctorate in B.S.
I am just blown away by your documentary's quality. Honestly if you get tired of CZcams someday, you'd make a damn good documentary filmmaker and I'd watch the crap out of your films.
Thank you!
This is top tier journalism, please keep it up.
Seeing Chimnoy looking so serious while bashing a musical instrument like a toddler cracked me up every single time
😂
@@moron_on_the_internet or both haha
Listening to the idea that he is Connecting to the Supreme Being with those "Musical Pieces" brings to mind Melkor from the JRR Tolkien Legendarium (Mythos).
It's amazing in retrospect that he once counted both John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana among his followers.
I came here for this comment
'I know a lot about people, I'm not a bigot, and I try to help people out whenever I can.'
I can only imagine that if Tim and Eric had been making their show when this guy was around that a lot of pain and suffering would have been averted.
Funny you say that because they did a skit that was based off of this cult
@@sabrinatscha2554 Which one? I gotta see it.
@@thomasbell7033 I'm _pretty sure_ it's "Zone Theory."
That’s actually a good point honestly.
Ba' hee Priss Dimmié! "All you have to do is diarrhea in a spaghetti pot."
Love this vid, Matthew! You’re amazing!
Who's Matthew?
Phenomenal work here! The interviews took it to the next level. Super impressed! Can't wait to see your next documentary.
I appreciate that this video didn't get too voyeuristic with the beliefs. It can seem very silly to an outsider, but when you're in the cult, nothing is too out there. I also appreciated how you showed the backlash to the involuntary deprogramming. It may be painful to watch family and friends in such a bad state, but trying to force them out can have disastrous effects.
It also seems kinda hypocritical.
Cults: Takes you away from the people you thought were your allies, tells you that everything you believe is wrong.
“Deprogrammers:” Takes you away from the people you thought were your allies, tells you that everything you believe is wrong.
So if you had someone you care about in a toxic relationship, you wouldn't try and get them out of there to see that it's not healthy?
Because often you have to get out to realise that the bubble you live in is not good for you, and you're being used and abused.
Deprogramming as such is a very questionable procedure, but to get these people out if a cult environment is an important first step. Especially if there is the danger that your loved one could disappear without a trace if you don't try anything.
@@KlutzyNinjaKitty i dont believe deprogramming to be wholly justified, but I think the key difference is that your "allies" the cult took you away from were actually allies; family, friends, coworkers, a proper, normal support system. The "allies" deprogrammers took you away from were either the charlatan at the top, their lackeys, or your brainwashes peers that, while possibly friendly, are all subject to the tricks of the other two.
Just because one thinks someone is an ally doesn't necessarily make them an ally.
@@henrymartinvo I get that. I don’t _want_ people to be stuck in cults. However, that doesn’t always mean that the indoctrinated individual’s previous life was inherently better. Parents, spouses, friends, and coworkers can all, and many times are, just as manipulative, abusive, and narcissistic as the cult leader.
As I grow older, the more I learn about cultish behaviors used in non-cult settings, and see them happen before my eyes. It just makes me think, you know?
@@KlutzyNinjaKitty that's why it's called DE-programming. Where's the hypocrisy? It plainly stated to do the opposite. Like counter-offensive, it also pushes the enemy back, opposite of offensive. We would need to do a lot of deprogramming to people brainwashed by russians in Donbas and Crimea. I wish we hire some South Korean specialists as they are deprogramming runaway victims of North Korean regime for years.
A much needed exposé of the common-ground of abuse and reality distortion in the age of cults: thank you AG. I also grew up brainwashed (along with my parents) in a "new age" cult in the late 90s up to the 2000s ran by a swiss woman whose name was Danielle Degoumois back then (now changed to Danielle Tripod for legal reasons) and who still has suit of followers in South America. It's incredible how much time of my youth growing up was wasted by being part of this cult, and the excessive squandering of money (including a pyramid scheme mind you) which left my family in bankruptcy. It's incredible in retrospect how this boom of cult leaders and wishy washy new age syncretism flowered and was so common-place after 60's in the West, and how many of us became victims of it.
I looked her up. She apparently told people that she could cure cancer, schizophrenia and other diseases with "La force de vie" (the force of life)... she apparently encouraged people to send their kids to follow a "training" (for a lot of money). She looks like a terrible human being. I'm glad that you are out of this cult and i hope that you and your family are doing well.
@@ObviouslyFonky Thank you! Even though we realised all of this a bit too late we were able to look critically in hindsight and leave. I remember that at one point they were selling branded water and a plan to produce a film...ofc all of the information has been swiftly sweeped off the web at this point and has gone underground, but she did have a big following way back then. Not unlike M. Rama
@@samuraiinCfede This is interesting! The information sweep. I heard that about Scientology, you know, that they are unique in how far their hands and lawyers go, Operation Snow White and all. What I never thought that often less famous cults ALSO do this kind of thing, and often more successfully. A good example is that a guy from this video who was on TV and had a legitimate signed band which got Rolling Stone ads and a record deal, and many people never heard of this thing... I just... didn't think they would consciously erase the compromising information on them.
This channel is one of the best in this platform
Ive watched all your content. Thank you!
“I have composed thousands of songs”
*starts doing absolutely random things with any instrument without knowing anything about it*
The same with the paintings. Of course he painted so many of them in a short time when it looked like pre-schoolers art project
This is such amazing work. As everyone else is saying, this video is so well polished. So I’ll say one other thing: I really appreciate how you included that involuntary deprogramming does not work. If you try to force someone out of a cult that they were drawn to willingly, of course they’d see that as abusive and be further pushed towards the cult. Its only by convincing people to listen to exit counsellors who are trained to not give an adversarial impression that cult members are able to be receptive to what they’re saying.
You could also intimidate and shout at people, weak people like that always seek comfort, so they will engage with what you're telling them, and most likely it will start making sense after you repeat yourself a few times and mock them.
If you really believe forcing people does not work, you might want to think again.
@@benegmond6584 You have clearly never been in a cult.
@@benegmond6584 That is absolutely not a healthy mindset, sending hugs your way
@@benegmond6584 did mockery stop the QAnon believers? When people believe in something so firmly and feel like they’re attacked they will dig their heels in deeper. Even people going broke mlm’s do not want to face reality because they cannot handle the idea that all the work and money they spent was for nothing. “Weak people” as you say, will cling to what is safe and comfortable status who even if it hurts them than do the challenging work of completely changing their way of thinking. By approaching them with derision and violence it only makes the huge barrier of changing your entire worldview even more difficult. And even if they bend to what you’re trying to tell them, like in the video, if they are kidnapped and held against their will, the moment they are free they will go back to the manipulative, but outwardly benevolent figurehead.
@@benegmond6584 you sound as abusive as these cult leaders.
The production on this channel is so unique stylistically. It's just so superbly edited and narrated, and it's peculiarities set it apart from other channels that are imitative or formulaic. Has enthralled me on many an otherwise gloomy day
Wonderful and enlightening video (pardon the pun)! Mind control is so fascinating to me. It amazes me how a sociopathic, narcissist can so easily brainwash people en masse. I see it happening in both spiritual endeavors and politics all the time. Thank you for this important documentary.
Produced over 140 000 paintings, none of which were of any consequence. Produced over 4 000 musical compositions, none of which were of any consequence. Near all of the works frankly just suck...
Yeah... Good job, man! Truly enlightened and reaching a higher plane!
A Monkey could have done a better job.
The way it was also presented as quantity somehow being a skill actually valued in art made it especially laughable.
Some artists can mass produce their art quite well, some even made it part of their art (Andy Warhol f.ex.) but that isn't the reason why they are celebrated. It's still only the quality of their artwork that is of interest.
@@samsalamander8147 I have seen generic furniture store bought living room art look more impressive 😄
@@Khenfu_Cake I didn't know it was so common! The only thing that came to mind was L Ron Hubbard
@@ToxoYou mention L. Ron Hubbard. As crazy as it may sound he was actually a fairly well regarded pulp science fiction author in his younger days.
When he founded Scientology and his mental health issues (there's very strong evidence that Hubbard suffered from paranoid schizophrenia) became increasingly worse combined with him being surrounded by yes-men, his authorship took a massive nose dive in quality.
He also fancied himself a musician and music producer without any real skill nor talent. I guess cult leaders just have a thing for wanting to be musicians and automatically thinking they are musical geniuses lol.
I love him basically insulting his own skills as a teacher by saying he'd been teaching them for thousands of lifetimes
Good scam. Like modern college system.
@@WiseOwl_1408 lol
Yeah. The idea that there were only 12 enlightened people out of a population of billions after he was supposedly teaching for tens of thousands of years is a very self-depricating claim.
Well, practice makes perfect, we are told.
Your editing is amazing.