How do you use a Preselector Gearbox? I find out in a Lanchester LD10
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- How do you drive a car with a Preselector Gearbox? What does it even mean? Find out as I put this 1947 Lanchester LD10 Drophead Coupe (by Abbott) through its paces. It belongs to the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust - find out more at sirwilliamlyon... or visit @JaguarHeritage
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That styling had a touch of USA stream lining going on at the front. I'm not sure that the interior mirror was as intended, but all mods were sensible and mostly sympathetic. A lovely car from a very different era.
I think the Lanchester brand could still work. Badge engineer one of Tata's small cars with luxury Jaguar style trim and away you go. But then I've often thought that BMW's larger Minis should be re-branded as Wolseley. I'm unlikely to get a job working in marketing.
The secret of getting a smooth gearchange with the preselector is in timing the change so the engine revs are right. Changing up you need to let the revs drop a bit while you hold the change pedal down, and changing down you need to keep a few revs on when you push the change-speed pedal to avoid a sudden nose-dive. Once you get in the rhythm of having the next gear preselected they're a delight to drive.
I love preselect boxes
My brother used to drive the old RT buses with pre-select gearboxes, and if you think back they were smooth; todays buses (automatic) are much more jerky than they were; but then the drivers back then would have put todays bus drivers to shame.
@@johnbower7452 quite so, they were taught to drive not just aim the vehicle
I spent dome time drivinga 20 tonne Foden with an Eaton twin splitter pre select. Made a hash of gear changes at first because i wasn't told that it was a pre select. Had i known thati'd have been okas i had experience with the Feret scout car whilst in the army
What a beautiful car. Thanks Ian for showing us such classics and their peculiarities.
This transmission is the direct predecessor of modern conventional automatics. GM bought a mid-range Daimler c1931 and used the transmission, adding a "brain" to produce the Hydramatic, first sold in the 1939 Oldsmobile for an extra $50.
The Airfix scale model kit company made a nice little model of a 1907 Lanchester Landaulette in the 1950s and 1960s.
My old dad, who would have been 97 if he was still around, used to often talk fondly of Lanchesters and Armstrong Siddleys.
That looked like a really happy place to be. What an amazingly beautiful little car. I did wonder what the horn was like though; I am imagining a quite satisfying 'parp' sound?
I don't think I checked it. Fail!
A car that wouldn't be out of place in one of the Miss Marple episodes set in the 1950s, I think.
Green and cream positively screams 1940s. I remember when it was a popular choice for exterior painting of houses. I also believe you can now get flashing LED bulbs for semaphores/traffictors.
Yes you can and believe it or not they're called Flashicators!
In the early 1970's I did an 18 month stint driving buses for Glasgow Corporation Transport. Mostly Leyland Titans, and Atlanteans. There were still a number of pre-selector gearbox Daimler CVG6's in the fleet ( dating from the late 50's ). My depot had 4 or 5. I loved them, these Daimlers always drove well, and they had a feel of engineering quality about them. As for the Wilson pre-selectors..., if you ever treated that 'clutch' pedal as a clutch, ie easing it in or out, the pedal would kick back fierecely. After it had whacked your ankle once or twice, you rapidly learnt that the best way was a firm press and release. Just like the instructor had told you in the first place !
My uncle Frank drove buses, with the gear boxes you mention, in the 1950s, for Glasgow Corporation Transport. He also drove the trolleybuses, around the same time, which he hated.
What a lovely old beastie. Looks like a real "gentleman's (or lady's) automotive carriage. I love these late 40s/early 50s machines.
Lovel little car there Ian. My dad worked for Tannoy in the '30s and I remember him telling me they tested two way radio in Lord Somebody's big Lanchester.
What a fascinating gearbox! I can't belive how quiet the engine is on tick over
The whirring sound is actually the planet wheels in the gearbox; some manufacturers like Lagonda, Riley and Talbot used a centrifugal clutch instead of the fluid flywheel, and they whirred just like that.
Beautiful car, I remember being astonished at Coventry Transport Museum when it dawned on me that ALL the cars there were built in and around Coventry. Presector gearboxes were quite common on buses.
I seem to recall the buses of my youth being preselector. Move a tiny selector through the metal gates and ptsch (not ptscho mind) it changed gear pneumatically. I always sat behind the driver if I could. I had taught myself to drive by 10 just from watching others. Used to get my Mother’s mini out of the garage for the morning school run. Precocious little sh1t I fear. 😂
Those rear wings have more than a hint of Morris Minor about them. But pre-dates the Minor . . .
The engine sounds very new for the time. Smooth for a small 4.
A fluid flywheel, or a hydrokinetic coupling, is a device where the output torque is always equal to the input torque. Because it can slip, yet still deliver torque, it allows the engine to provide more torque to the transmission under some circumstances than a mechanical clutch. However, as the coupling is always slipping, there is always a power loss. But I think fluid couplings slip less than a torque converter.
The three element torque converter employs a device called a stator, which modifies the flow of fluid to multiply the torque through the device. In cars the stator is mounted on a freewheeling mechanism, which prevents runaway behaviour and means that at higher speeds means the torque converter behaves more like a two element coupling. There are industrial torque converters that don't have this. The advantage of the torque converter was that you could get away with fewer gears, which made transmissions easier to engineer. That's why General Motors and Mercedes-Benz took the apparently retrograde step of switching from four to three speed automatics. Any decent automatic transmission also employs a lock-up clutch to connect the input and output sides of the torque converter, for greater efficiency.
My 1965 Canadian Pontiac had a two gear Powerglide, gearbox with a torque convertor, from memory, that had different lockup speeds.
Nice car to go for a drive and a picnic in the countryside 😀
What a pretty little car. Not covered in chrome, or odd little design touches. It's simple in the execution, the white wheels and top are a nice offset to the deep green paint. And the wood dash looks great. Love the design of the gauges, very 40's. Thanks for showing this one off.
I remember as a child my late dad talking about pre-selector boxes when we were on an old Daimler bus from as it was Coventry Transport back around the early 1970's, they used to have an H block switch selector on the left of the steering wheel left of the huge speedo if I recall correctly. It's only taken me over 50 years to fully understand how it was used so many thanks Ian for the enlightenment. I had my theories but have until today seen the use case in operation in my adult life. Many thanks for sharing. I've no idea how I remember these thigs from so long ago but I guess I'm on some scale somewhere.
I grew up driving pre-selector gearboxes on my Dad's Daimlers. So easy to drive and so smooth, always loved the Wilson Pre-selector gearboxes. It's definitely not a clutch and must never be driven as such. Its a gear change pedal. Press down, let off the throttle and let pedal all the way up again without slipping it at all. Slipping the pedal will prematurely wear the bands in the gearbox. Power losses in a Fluid Flywheel are much lower than a torque converter so you get better fuel economy but without the hassle of manual boxes (which were often crash boxes back in those days)
Fred Lanchester was an engineering genius, much underappreciated. He invented many things we take for granted now, such as an early form of disc brakes and counter-rotating harmonic balancing shafts to make engines smoother.
My father who passed away in 2020 passed his driving test in my grandad's 1937 Lanchester back in 1949. He told me that he once reversed into a low brick wall which was completely demolished but the car emerged completely unscathed thanks to its sprung steel bumper. Apparently because of the pre-selector gearbox, the car could creep forward very slowly without any input from the driver so my grandad had a habit of leaving it in gear and for a joke, hop out and with the car pootling along a walking pace, walk along side it with my grandmother still sat in the back much to her annoyance.
What a lovely little car and what a great day to be out and about in it 😊
Such a neat and classy little car. Wish I had roads around that would be good for bimbling along.
My dad had a 1930s one of these in the 50s. Its only disadvantage was the fluid flywheel: fully laden on a steep hill, it would gently come to a stop; then it could be pushed along with one hand!
How absolutely delightful. One can imagine picnics by the river on a summer's day, taking Jemima to her horse riding lessons and other such delights.
Beautiful colours too, totally my vision of what a classic car means.
Great to see a review of the preselector gearbox! My fathers 1933 Talbot 105 has one (based on the Wilson patents like other manufacturers of the time). I think it might differ from the type in the Lanchester as it uses a traditional flywheel and clutch so wouldn't suffer from the drivetrain loss of the fluid clutch and behaves much like a 'normal' gearbox. I drove it all the way to Le Mans and back a few years ago and it was an absolute joy! Very advanced for its time i think
What a lovely little old car, Ian! I also loved how when you weren't talking and all you could hear was the engine, the subtitles said "Music"! Magic!
Didn't know they did a coupe. We have an LD10 barker saloon in cream and 2 Daimler Conquest Century 2 saloons in black and silver-grey, with the same gearboxes made by Wilson, who became Self Changing Gears (Coventry) Ltd of bus fame.
I believe only two dropheads were built. Both survive.
A lovely looking car. I think I can see where Ford got the design for the MK1 Cortina rear lights.
There is a Grey 52 Land Chester "Leda" sitting out in the middle of what's known here as ty"West Valley" in Arizona, complete with matching Grey Steel Wheels and Right Hand Drive..... obviously a private import at some point. Last Inspected in March of 1971. It's covered with Vintage Cokeacola and RC Cola stickers along with a load of "Hippie" Flower--Power Stickers 🤪😜. No sign of it's original UK Plates, although there's a pair of Maryland plates from 1966 inside under the rear seats. The Inspection Sticker is an Arizona one. It DOES make you wonder just where the Hell this car has been. Richard Hammond would probably fall in love with it (His Grandfather DID work for Lanchester...) and repatriate the thing....🤪🚗💨 !
My dad had a 1939 BMW 315 'Special' with a Preselector gearbox, he used to race it in vintage Car racing! Never got to drive it myself as he had to sell it before I was old enough, now I know how it works.
I could see Miss Marple driving one. What a charming little car indeed.
Contrary to what Ian says I believe the whirring noise from the preselect gearbox in neutral actually is the planetary gear set whizzing away idling. Mid 1930s (Wilson) preselector-equipped Rileys have a centrifugal clutch rather than fluid flywheel but make exactly the same whirring noise in neutral.
What a lovely car
Lovely little car, pre-select gearboxes were far suited to larger heavier vehicles like buses, London RT's and RF's used a pre-select box which was very well liked by all the drivers. latter RM's like Pete and his bus, went over to a semi-auto but retained the fluid flywheel, it just didn't feel the same (i just about remember driving RT's, he drove RM's alot more before being inspector, and yes he got given a very famous nick name, ill let you try and work it Ian,
That would have been the Hydracylic or Pneumocyclic gearbox. Same idea as the preselector but hydraulics or air doing the job of the gearchange pedal so you could just move the lever and leave the box to do the rest. They used to do a fully automatic version too.
Great review of a superb motor car. A real high quality cabriolet. Curiously I wonder which Wilson gear box was used. I have a Special Sports which shares parts with the DB18 gearbox that were the staple Daimler gearboxes. But that gearbox is huge and heavy and fitted to a 2.5 litre engine. The fluid flywheel is interesting but I much prefer the setup in my Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire mark 2 which has a clutch and electrical shifting. The fluid flywheel has a serious disadvantage. When you stop you must preselect neutral and press the pedal to disengage. Otherwise next time you start the car your starting it in gear. And so it can start and drive through your garage wall! Less of an issue then but today 99% of possible drivers don't know how to drive such a gearbox. But they are swift and an absolute delight to use. Beautiful car.
Great video Ian, that is one of 2 in existence, abbot built 2 from what I believe one for him and one for his wife , my father rebuilt the other which is now in maroon and black .
Last I saw it was forsale at a classic car showroom.
Keep up the good work.
My grandfather drove Daimler Conquests with preselector boxes. They were always very smooth drives.
Beautiful Ian. Most people would choose something like the 4wd XJS to video but I am glad you chose this. I think in the day the pre-selector would have been far superior to a crash gearbox. Lanchesters must have made it to Australia as there are two sedans locally to me. Pretty rare though.
Lanchester United
Lovely old car, good to see one again.
My father was a proper motor engineer, ex REME, and I remember sometime in the 1950s him having a pre-selector box out of a Lanchester in a thousand bits on the bench and scratching his head. He got it up and running though but I learned a few new words helping him that week.
Talking of not liking hills.
As a child the vicar of Moreleigh in Devon ,had an old car with a gravity fuel pump! When he came to a hill he had to turn the car round and reverse up the hill! (Early 1960's)
My dad had a Daimler Conquest Century with the Wilson pre-select gearbox and the fluid flywheel - start off in 2nd and once in top it was virtually never required to downchange
Fun fact: the Dutch for preselector is ‘preselectie’, and if that doesn’t tell you why we love the Dutch, nothing will.
Lovely proportions. My dad always used to sing the praises of the Riley he drove with a preselector gearbox.
Wonderful as ever. The first preselecter gearbox I ever drove was also a Lanchester. The second was a Daimler Dingo!
What an absolutely spiffing little motor car. Tip Top!
That little mascot thing on the radiator cowl looks VICIOUS.
I remember my dad saying he drove a vehicle with a pre selector gearbox in the RAF. I think it might have been an aircraft tractor, the idea being they could be towed smoothly without undue stress or damage to the airframe. (He actually learned to drive on a fuel bowser which must have been interesting!)
David Brown built preselector aircraft tugs for the RAF
@@davidjones332 Thank you, that would be what he was talking about then.
What a charming little car with bags of character! I could get used to the pre-selector box no time. Love it!
I went school on a bus with a preselector gearbox - fascinating and actually good gearboxes (maybe a forerunner to a modern dual-clutch unit?)
Lovely old car Ian. Very enjoyable video.
My Dad used to impersonate the noises made by the Lanchester that lived opposite his family home in Croydon in the 1940's. It's only thanks to the internet that I've been able to hear one. The starters could make interesting noises too.
Best Hubnut wiper test ever 😂 👍🏾
A bus company i used to volunteer for had some Scania Irizar's Century's originally from 97/98 that had air operated Preselector gearboxes. It was strange as drivers put into the next gear first then it would change gear after the driver dipped the clutch. Very quirky and i suppose back then it was seen as the forerunner to semi automatic gearboxes like in Routemaster's, NSU80's, Citroen GSA etc's.
The Citroen C-Matic gearbox was a right pile of dog-turds. My dad had been used to automatic transmissions on his various Hillman Hunters and when he decided to change and get a Citroen GSA he went for one with C-Matic - you change gear manually (only 3 ratios) but with no clutch pedal. I had just learned to drive (on my mum's Renault 6 and the driving instructor's Honda Civic) and driving the Citroen was very difficult: I found I could never get a smooth gearchange but instead the lever was very clunky, and the release of power in the old gear and the take-up of power in the new gear was very jerky. Maybe if I'd had more driving experience I'd have managed it better. It also had that horrible "vague" feeling that you get with the torque converter of automatics: you press the accelerator and it takes a moment for the wheels to "notice", so everything has to be done with a slight time delay "I want to acclerate in 2 seconds, so I'll apply a bit more power now". Also, setting off from rest was a challenege because you increase the power gradually and then suddenly the wheels start to turn, with a bit of a snatch - no nice smooth transition from stationary to moving that you get with a manual - or probablt with a modern automatic.
I believe the C-Matic was a normal planetary-motion automatic with torque converter, but without the logic that determines the gear changes and a manual lever to do this. Worst of both worlds :-(
Thank you so much for taking us for a drive in this delightful little car.
What a lovely surprise this video was! Thank you for the preselector lesson and the reminder that lanchesters exist!
So many special cars have been made. Glad we can enjoy the ride.
I think London Transport Buses used to have a pre-select gearbox in the 60s,
I remember watching the driver he selected first while waiting for passengers
to board and as soon as we were moving he selected another gear and after
a few seconds the bus would lurch slightly and the engine note would change
and so on, there was quite a time between him moving the little lever and the
thing changing gear. That had me guessing for quite a while but being an
inquisitive 16 year old I had to ask and the conductor ( remember them )
told me, he said they took a bit of getting used to but were great to use,
Good grief that was a blast from the past, Thanks.
Yes, the RT buses were pre-select I think.
My first encounter with a pre select box was in 1970 with my 1938 Riley 12/4 LWB saloon. Riley had to use a centrifugal clutch (no in gear creep, engaged at 550 RPM) as Daimler held the Patent on the Fluid Flywheel and would only license its use by car manufacturers that used Daimler engines, Riley using their own twin cam pushrod OHV crossflow one both in 12/4 and 15/6 cylinder form. Daimler did license it to truck and bus manufacturers. Drove one for many years on LT with the RT and RF buses. The one big problem is they can't be flat or front lift towed unless a half shaft withdrawn or the engine is running.
Lovely car,good informative video well presented
What an amazing car , suprising how many old british car companies have gone .
As a London Transport bus mechanic aged 21, ( I'm now 68) I was instructed to report to Chiswick works for bus driver instruction. (1976)
As an engineer, I had to follow the same instructional procedure as the platform staff. The RT regent bus with its Wilson pre-select gearbox was a joy to drive.
This clever piece of engineering, never gave the inside staff much trouble at all. You could adjust the individual speed bands if one of the gears were slipping, while making sure that the air supply to the gearbox was set correctly.
Like many public service vehicles, they certainly had a tough life in all sorts of weather. Hopefully one day I'll get to drive an RT bus again before I get too old.
Thanks very much for showing this Lanchester, a very nice little motor.
Kind regards to all on here.👍
Windshield wiper test went Hubnut 😂
Cute! The wiper and trafficator theatre is quite amusing... ♥🇬🇧♥
I love the cat's eye headlights. A feature a Jaguar even didn't have!
beautiful little car
Well that was wipertastic, made me laugh. Lanchester still has associations with Coventry through the university. Cov Uni, of course, used to be Lanchester Polytechnic, remember those? The library at the university is named for Lanchester, Ellie was parked right by it when you visited the Moto Fest in 2019 pre Covid. Happy days. If you haven't seen that video you must, massive Citroen jamboree.
Like many other viewers, I'm sure, I will be beating a path to the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust! What a brilliant museum and what a great collection of working vehicles. Thank you, top video.
Such refinement in a small car, compared to the offerings from Ford, Morris and Austin of the day.
Aye, but I expect you had to pay for it.
What a little ripper mate. Aussie Graham.
What an excellent day you got for the review, perfect weather for a nice gentle amble through the countryside. I'm very much looking forward to the day we can do the same with our LD10. The bench seat looked enormous compared to the usual bucket seats, it's not normally so difficult to get your legs past the steering wheel, though it also looked incredibly comfortable.
The trick is when suicide doors fitted is to sit on seat and swing both legs in together as the seat is compressed allowing more space between thigh and wheel.
I suspect that the new upholstery wasn't helping, either. When the seat has had a bit more bum time it should get easier.
That looked delightful - absolutely delightful.
What a charming little car. I would love to give one a home, I think it would be superb for bumbling around in the country but I don't think the little thing would be too happy with modern city driving or tackling some of the hills around your neck of the woods.
M.G. used ENV pre-selector gearboxes back in the early-1930s, most famously on the K-type Magnette (the supercharged K3), but also on the F-Type Magna.
Such a gorgeous shade of green, love it.
Thank you for sharing your driving impressions of this charming LD10. Lanchester engineering was wonderful, especially in the early "cab forward" models that sported balanced dual crankshaft/flywheel engines with overhead valves and pressurized lubrication, epicyclic gearboxes, and mechanically actuated front disc brakes! (If I recall correctly, those early Lanchesters were designed to last for the life of the owner.) Even the more conventional later models (imposing cars intended to compete with Rolls-Royce) had unique features like side valves actuated by leaf springs (!) and worm drive rear axles. I would love to have one, even one of the later Daimler-based models (especially a Leda or Dauphin).
A delightful car and a delightful video. Very enjoyable. I love the piano music at the end too. A joy.
My dad was a London bus driver (29’s from Cockfosters) when I was a little toddler and the busses were preselector boxes.
So happy that you did this with the not-so-well-known Lanchester! I've always been interested in semi-auto transmissions as well as older automatics. I note that Daimler's Fluid Flywheel is basically a fluid clutch with that 1:1 ratio. It does enable the car to sit engaged stopped at idle. Mercedes used the fluid clutch for their Saxomat based Hydrak semi-auto and stuck with it for their first generation 4-speed automatics. Back to the preselector, when are you going to show ones used in performance applications, like on a twin cam Riley? Or take on a Cotal Preselector?
‘Apparently that’s where we’re going’. Proper motoring, that is. Sun’s out, lovely little car, nice surroundings… ‘Honey, gonna be late for dinner. The car has other ideas’ :)
What a lovely, lovely car !
Simply lovely love the pre selector box love to own one
I like that car a lot more than I think I should...
Wow, what a treat of a drive.
I MUST read up on how pre-selectors work!
I was disappointed that the additional gauge (oil pressure?) wasn't mounted upon a green-painted fascia to match the main cluster.
Funky trafficator action.
Thx :)
What a lovely little car.
Fabulous car. Perfectly adequate for the roads of its time. Love the pre-selector gearbox. Thanks Ian.🤩
What a fascinating little nugget of a car!
Our neighbour had a Daimler Majestic with a preselector gear box.
I got to drive it at age 17 back in 1970, very Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud in demeanor.
I preferred the Majestic to my the RR Silver Cloud I with the 6 cylinder and 3 speed automatic.
The same family had a Daimler SP250 which grandma drove... She was a hoon.
I did not get to drive it as she was quite protective of it..
A marvellous car! Well handled by Mr Hubnut!! Well done!!
An auspicious part of the country to drive a Lanchester. Coventry University started life as Coventry Lanchester Polytechnic, and before that Lanchester Technical College. Which often got confused with Lancaster and Manchester, if the lads in my 6th form were anything to go by.
Many thanks for such informative video I always wondered how a pre selector gearbox worked.
What an absolutely lovely video. Thanks Ian. Peak Hubnut! Really enjoy seeing you get to grips with unfamiliar tech. Lot of ‘30s Rileys had preselector gearboxes - Wilson, I think. You’ll have to go sometime, to the Riley Register Rally annual gathering in Coventry - usually in June or July. Get much pre-select eye candy. Again - thanks for a great vid.
Pre-selects are great fun once you get used to them. Fitted to the Ferret armoured car and some Foden trucks. I quite agree that oil pressure gauges are a wise addition. I was always taught that by the time the oild light comes on the pressure has already dropped to such a level that it's unlikely that the engine is undamaged. I'm surprised that they don't fit them to all cars.
Super little car surprised it such small capacity, the interior is wonderful
I owned an LD10 Barker many yuears ago . IT was in beautiful condition with only 11000miles when I bought it. Good smooth runner but underpoered somewjat and the mechanical brakes needed lots of foot pressure. I didn't use it as my everyday car but in the better weather time of year it got a decent run out at least once a week. Preselector box was very smooth and what is normally where the clutch pedal is actually engages the pre selected gears..
Absaloutly brilliant video Ian❤👍 what a beautiful car and I love that gearbox better than autos today brilliant
As a kid in the ‘80s my mates dad had a beautiful Armstrong Siddeley Hurricane convertible gathering dust in his garage. He didn’t mind us playing in it and I remember the owners manual describing how to use the pre selector gearbox. I was only 8 at the time so didn’t understand normal gearboxes and have never really understood how you’d drive a pre selector car until now…. We eventually badgered him into getting the Hurricane restored, I’d guess at horrific expense!
Armstrong Siddeley and Hawker were by that time part of the Hawker Siddeley group so I presume they borrowed the name Hurricane from the aircraft, much as Bristol did with their cars.
@@caw25sha I wondered if there was a connection. It was a stunning car with a 2.3 litre six cylinder engine if I recall the stats correctly!