Who is the NBA's GOAT? 🐐 Stephen A., Shannon Sharpe and Tim Legler debate 👀 | First Take
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- čas přidán 4. 12. 2023
- Who is the NBA's GOAT? 🐐 Stephen A., Shannon Sharpe and Tim Legler debate 👀 | First Take
Stephen A. Smith, Shannon Sharpe and Tim Legler debate who is the NBA's GOAT.
#firsttake #nba #espn
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Finally, I've been watching First Take for years waiting for them to ask this question. This is the first time this has been brought up on ESPN I think.
🤣🤣🤣
“That’s what I’m saying I would’ve never thought I’d ever hear this discussion or topic on espn or any other talk show”
LMAO
Glad they can finally tackle this topic....
It's about time they addressed the elephant in the room
Bro I’m so tired of this debate every day 😂😂😂
It’s no question
You clicked
@@GODMC87 ok doesn’t mean I not tired of hearing it on every platform goofy so run along
@@martaviouspaul7117you're the goofy. You're tired of heaing about it but you click on it to complain about how tired you are. My bad you are not a goofy, you're a clown.
@@BH-85facts😂 like why watch if you tired of hearing about it lmaoo
What a unique topic of discussion.
Truly original segment.
Very impressed.
There I give you like and comment... Because clearly no one else gives af 😂
I agree! Sick of this topic
@@lit101-gamesandgoodvibes3just like the debate lamest debate of the decade 😭
Agree. Never heard these guys discussing this one
Everyone is so sick of it but loves to engage in it 😅
All these nba players been saying Kobe. The disrespect is crazy smh
Mfs been disrespecting Kobe 🤦♂️
we can all agree the top 3 lock, in any particular order are Kareem, Jordan and LeBron
@@mr.s845lmao Kareem and Lebron aren’t even top 10 foh
@@mr.s845 nope
Just gotta boycott espn and all media publications that continue to spread these lies. They only do it because they know it stirs up conversation and draws clicks and views.
Here we go again 😂🤦🏽♂️
Yet here you are 😅😅
@@juanthompson8016he was being sarcastic and it’s true stop being that person
Hes right they talk about it all the time i watch this show daily during my breaks and this topic is overused
Exactly what I said 😂
Exactly 😂😂😂
Trevor Ariza was saying that Kobe is his favourite player but Jordan is the GOAT. What’s so hard to understand about that
You know they have to spin or mince words. Wouldn't be ESPN if they didn't do that. Also you could even agree with Trevor's statement which is Kobe was the most skilled player ever but it doesn't make him the GOAT. I know he didn't use the word skilled but sometimes people don't have an expanded vocabulary. But that is how I interpreted his "Kobe is the greatest player to me, even though Michael Jordan is on a level all by himself. Kobe is just my favorite player".
Facts Kobe is my favorite player but MJ is the goat
Nah he literally said "kobe is the best player ever" that's different from saying hes your favorite
He also said ant man is the best player. All you need to know
Trevor Ariza is a freaking moron though. Who cares what he thinks.
I would say in the early 2000s Kobe got cheated out of at least 2 Mvps
2003 and 2006 Kobe is the real mvp
@@JuwanTaylor-jz5zr2003 MVP rightfully went to Tim Duncan. Personal favorite and MVP are two different things
@@GODMC87 kobe average 30 ppg he the real 03 mvp
It’s funny because before Lebron won his 3rd championship in 2016, Shannon didn’t even bring his name up it was always Kobe vs Jordan
Because championships are part of the goat debate😂 at least 3 for me should start that conversation and all the other accomplishments lebrons had and something that’s not really taken into the debate much but the fact he’s been the same player for 21 straight years averaging like 25,7,8 or whatever is incredible, his longevity should have more weight in this goat debate, he’s already my goat but if he somehow gets 1 more ring that should solidify it to everyone else
@@mikedevito9338 he’s doesn’t have a DPOY award which Jordan has plus he’s never 3 peat like Jordan did twice
This debate is meaningless, and very unfair on Lebron James who was born the year Michael Jordan started his NBA. Again Lebron began his NBA journey when Michael Jordan had finished. Michael Jordan played in a different era. That’s why you should find other things to talk about because you can never get an accurate judgement between M &L. Jordan can be a goat to people who witnessed his days. Lebron James is the goat of his own era. Can Jordan withstand the media invasion which has been following Poor Lebron James as a kid to the present day if he is playing in this era?
Being a selfish player without considering that you and your teammates are in that business together does not make someone the best no matter how many rings he has. Lebron James is very kind, considerate, he distributes his talent.
No matter what Lebron James does Stephen A Smith and Skip will never acknowledge it with sincerity.
The Kobe disrespect is CRAZY
Kobe is not better than Jordan
That's why
And he's dead, let him rest in peace
@MangoTroubles-007 what does him being dead gotta do with anything? We all die. So once jordan or Bron passes does it disqualify them? U dumb af
On God they really sat up there and acted like no player has ever said Kobe was the goat… like gtfoh 😂.
@@MangoTroubles-007 Kobe is a better basketball player than Jordan in my opinion but Jordan is the GOAT cause he has the accolades to match his skill set plus how he looked compared to his competition
hes trash! dude kobe misses so much shots in game its not even funny
I got Kobe over Lebron
Lebron 16-6 against kobe
KOBE Over Lebron it’s not close the media know that but they keep disrespecting KOBE and His Legacy feel bad For Kobe Wife and Kids knowing they dad is really better but the media keep pushing this narrative disrespecting KOBE
@@YR-cr9db its not close, lol
Kobe has 1mvp lebron has 4mvp
Kobe has 2fmvps lebron has 4fmvps
Pluse kobe and bron both played 20 seasons but lebron the all time leading scorer
Youre right its not close
@Mt554. LeBron is NBA all time turnovers leader. LeBron choked lost 6 finals. Kobe won 5 rings and has the most all star mvps in nba history. LeBron the only player ever To get swept twice in the finals. Kobe clearly better than LeBron 💯
@@Mt554.LeBron is NBA all time turnovers leader. Kobe better than LeBron 💯. Kobe is the goat 🐐
“He’s the best player in the game is just that simple. There nothing that Kobe Bryant can’t do. He will defend your best player, he will shoot from the perimeter, he will get all in your mug. He is the most complete basketball player in the game today, bar none. He has a assassin mentality. ” - STEPHEN A. SMITH
There are many RECENT players (who have played against Lebron and Kobe) who are taking Kobe over LeBron.
Come on ESPN and First Take its hard to re-write history, when there are videos.
Im not saying that Kobe is the G.O.A.T but the notation that NO ONE not even their own on air personality has NEVER made G.O.A.T comparisons or put Kobe over LeBron at some point, is flat out wrong and blasphemous
Having Kobe ahead of LeBron is ridiculous. Havin Kobe ahead of Jordan should get one drug tested!
@@ASevBVB09 There a bunch of players ( not including players, who retired in 80s or 90s) who have had or still have Kobe over LeBron.
And to pretend that’s not true is lying to yourself and pushing a false history revisionist narrative.
Btw Stephen A said all of that about Kobe when he was still playing in the league. It seems like ever since he died (or even retired) people just love to discredit this mans greatness and come up with lame excuses to say he doesn’t belong in that same class as MJ, Lebron, and Kareem. Yet all the nba all time greats have all said that Kobe is in thag conversation.
Big facts!
@@ASevBVB09
I have Kobe over LeBron WITH EASE
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends.
Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ.
Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2.
Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3.
91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic.
92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half
93-- average 41 points per game highest ever.
Yo throat hurt yet
@@Youknowitthono actual point just a stupid comment
Too long, didn't read
@@MangoTroubles-007 um ok
Lebron fans won't like this
There’s no debate. 6-0 in finals vs 4-10. So we giving participation awards now? SMH.
Jordan wouldn't have took that cavs team to the finals like LeBron did when he was super young plus Jordan ain't have a team build the most over powered team against him in the 2017 warriors Jordan wouldn't have came back 3-1 in a finals also LeBron brought a championship to every team look at the early 2000 cavs roster and put Jordan there you think there winning 😂😂😂 people don't understand that franchises built super teams to stop this man the warriors knew they had to get kd man LeBron the goat thats my argument I had time
Like LeBron didn't have super teams...ok 😐
@@shillbill1299 lol
@@Sl4yDj It's hilarious how every Bron goat argument includes hypotheticals that literally can't be proven😂
@@MJ-uu3th LeBron resume is better imo because the road was WAY TOUGHER THAN WHAT MJ'S ROAD WAS wrap your head around that
THE HIGHLY UNDERAPPRECIATED KOBE BRYANT :
Lebron James was 0-4 in the Finals without a top 75 teammate, did win a ring with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love after a Draymond Green suspension.
Michael Jordan never made the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Larry Bird never made the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Wilt never won the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Shaq never won a Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Magic Johnson never made the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Kareem never made the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
Oscar Robertson made the Finals without a top 75 teammate.
In Kobe's 5 championship runs, 85% of the teams he faced were 50 win teams !
The rest of the guys in ESPN's top 10
meanwhile:
Michael: 67%
LeBron: 50%
Kareem: 43%
Magic: 50%
Wilt: 50%
Bill: 56%
Larry: 55%
Tim: 65%
Oscar: 0%
Furthermore Kobe’s beat more 50 win playoff teams in his career (25) than any other player in NBA history.
In Summary, Kobe carried his team to 3 straight Finals against the toughest playoff competition in NBA history, winning 2 straight Championships without a top 75 teammate, beating a superteam while injured, and was the closer in the first 3 peat in which he dominated key series in the playoffs vs. the toughest opponents including the Spurs, Blazers, Kings, not to mention taking over on command any time needed ie. vs. Pacers in 2000, game 7 vs. Blazers, in 2000, etc.
Kobe’s legacy will be defined by one of a kind skillset, scoring, defense, clutch, which all lead to winning.
Kobe got Shaq, he’s not even to 10 got swept by Dallas in 2011, missed the playoffs on his Prime
Lebron finals Loss
2007: Took a Garbage team to the Finals
2011: Got beat by the team that swept the Lakers, Lebron won 2 games.
2014: Lost To The Spurs who owned the NBA that season
2015: Injured Kyrie, Injured Love
2017: KD + Warriors
2018: KD + Warriors
Also what coach that LBJ had that is on the level MJ, Kobe, Magic had
this GOAT debate must end as soon as possible please..lebron, kobe, jordan, wilt, kareem, magic, bird, they all played in different eras...
unlike MESSI AND RONALDO in football they played in the same era, so it's natural and it make sense that their names keep getting compared..but if in the NBA you compare who the GOAT is ? it will be very difficult because they played in different eras..and the rules of the game changed..
LeGOAT beat the greatest team ever assembled and did it by coming back from a deficit never achieved before. Sit down and respect the unmatched greatness that is LeGOAT James.
greatest team ever assembled ?? how could that be?? Steph, Klay and Draymond are not the greatest..LEFRAUD was even helped by Kyrie and Kevin Love.. LOL... but after Kyrie left?? LEFLOP can't do anything,.. OWNED by KD 2 times.....Lebron is just lucky that he plays in this era with the massive impact of social media, so people are too overhype about him...🤣🤣@@KtonV
I hate the Kobe played with Shaq narrative , because Shaq would only have 1 ring if it wasn’t for Kobe. Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 7 players in the league at that moment and drastically shifted the competition in the East. Gotta give Kobe more respect for winning 2 more rings without a top 75 teammate. Lebron has always had at least 2 top 30 players each ring he’s won.
Thank you The Media Ignore and lie and cover up FACTS just to protect lebron but DISRESPECT KOBE career day after day when they die I hope people talk bad and make up lies about their career and put out false narratives to manipulate the people that don’t really know what happened
In a tougher western conference at that. People act like Pau [while great] is jokic or something
A young Kobe was averaging over 25 a game and was the reason why they even MADE THE FINALS. How is that carrying?
Wade got injured in like year 2 ahhaah, Kobe had a healthy Shaq for years + a healthy Bynum and Pau.
Kobe got Pau for Kwame. Kobe got Gary Payton Karl Malone Steve Nash Dwight Howard lamar Odom Bynum it’s just players wanna go to la not Cleveland plus the Lakers is a winning franchise Lebron got Cleveland it’s only championship it’ll ever has and Miami had one before he got there
Kobe is my GOAT, doesn't have to be everyone else's and it really is that simple. Shame on Tim Leger tho, saying he never heard anyone say Kobe is hella crazy, someone should call him out for that one.
Yea that was weird.
he must not know anyone from LA 😂
Nah fr lmao. Theres been hella players, coaches, etc that have called Kobe the goat and they said it way before he died before the dummies try and use that argument.
@@AaronTanyhill I swear, the census on Kobe is astronomical in L.A and for good reason, NOT just championships.
@@SojiRo23 Overall a garbage take, not even giving Kobe the benefit of doubt or fighting chance is trash and makes no kind of sense.
Anyone else remember a few years back when Shannon had this question asked on Undisputed and he said Kareem? 🤣🤣
MJ has a better PER, offensive net rating, defensive net rating, box plus minus, win shares per 48min, 2 more championships, 2 more finals MVPS, 1 more regular season MVP, 10x scoring champ, 9x 1st team defense, 1x defensive player of the year. All around better.
And he was loyal 😂
2 three-peats which the other doesnt even have one *NO GAME 7 IN THE FINALS . . .
🏀💯💯💯💯💯💯🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@MLhub. mj preferred getting beat in round 1
Who played against better skilled players?
I’m a LBJ fan, but I acknowledge MJ as the GOAT. LBJ will be all time in missed shots, TOs, and final losses. MJ was the far better scorer, defender, leader, competitor, and winner.
Respect 👊🏽...from team Jordan.
I'm an MJ fan too but no way a Bron fan has that much logical sense to speak..
You gotta remember, LeBron was 38 years old when he did a spinning 360 layup.. the greatest of all time🤣🤣
that spin move looks actually akward.@@juliuscaesar6994
MJ quit the most out of any player ever, never got the wizards to the playoffs once, could never reach the finals without Scottie and Phil, punched teammates, had David stern and nba media glazing him nonstop, and won during the expansion era(the weakest era in sports history). The only thing Mj is the greatest at is quitting and drinking.
@@KtonV okay.. and still more rings than Bron lmfao..
20 years, less accomplishments. 13 seasons, a lot more accomplishments. The math don’t lie.
Kobe disrespect is crazy
Truth. Tim Duncan may be even more so. It's wild
They are not necessarily disrespecting Kobe. It’s just LeBron Michael Jordan Kareem. They all just have better resumes. Kobe is so iconic that he gives you the impression that he was the greatest or at least one of the three greatest players you ever seen but his résumé doesn’t match up to them.
Shaq disrespect is even worse, dude carried kobe in the finals
@@Mt554. hack a shaq?
no he didnt dummy @@Mt554.
Not even close, it's not even a question. They won't let it rest. For me was/is and always be MJ-🐐
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Legoat 👑 🐐
LeBron is better but ok 😂
Kobe is the goat 🐐 💯
@@goatjames328kobe and mj better than LeBron 💯
Regular season MVP are a joke because its based on votes from sports writers. For Shaq & Kobe to only have one is crazy. In 2006 I seen Kobe score 81 points lead the league in scoring at 35 pts a game, and was top 5 in +/- and top 2 in VORP. Made the playoffs 7th seed in the West literally carrying the worst starting five line-up in NBA history of Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Lamar Odom...Kobe finished 4th in voting for MVP, Steve Nash won just by leading the league in assist but his +/- was ranked 17th meaning the team didn't need him on the floor as much as the Lakers needed Kobe or the Cavs needed LeBron...what hurts Kobe then and continues to this day will always be Colorado.
facts
Fr. I grew up on the 2000s and Steve Nash was great, he wasn't back to back MVPs great though
Faxx. Colorado is the main reason why he only has 1 MVP. The NBA always been "political" with their corrupt former commissioner in Stern.
LeBron got robbed of more MVPs than Kobrick
@@josh_7569 Lebron couldn’t even get out the east in 2009 and 10 those phony mvp awards lmfao cavaliers was favored to win the east both of those years one thing for sure he didn’t get robbed of 2 chips and kobrick? Why don’t you look up lebrons shooting outside of 3 feet you’ll see where the name lebrick comes from
The Gap between Jordan and LeBron is wider than the gap between LeBron and whoever you want to put third.
The obsession with this pointless discussion is genuinely one of the worst things about basketball, everyone has a different criteria and it’ll never be settled. They drub it up every few months purely for content and talking points. As a new NBA fan it’s honestly exhausting.
everyone does not have a different criteria. Most people have the same criteria but bias drives them to be inconsistent with that criteria. For example, most people who think Bron is the GOAT think it is because of longevity. However, if longevity was the way we judge greatness Jordan would not even be top 5. Which no one believes.
@@luminousrxk7288 your first 2 sentences completely contradict one another
@@luminousrxk7288 " However, if longevity was the way we judge greatness Jordan would not even be top 5. Which no one believes." What? Jordan is a 14x All star and 11x ALL NBA. That's longetivity. Years played is not longetivity it's how many years you've been great. The amount of people who have 10+ ALL NBA selections is a small list.
They simply didn’t have anything to talk about and use this argument as a filler piece.
to be fair the "debate" is already settled....its more of a can we make an argument for Lebron this time question that keeps coming up. Its MJ and it's been MJ for decades. This is really a who is #2 question.
When ESPN run out of ideas, they bring up this debate
They should be talking about SAS and Molly and the hypocrisy of how they spoke about Von Miller’s ACCUSATION, but did NOT speak on Dana White smacking his wife ON TAPE with any vitriol whatsoever. The hypocrisy. This show is silly.
He literally said Jordan is in a class of his own meaning Michael is the GOAT but Kobe is second after Mike and Lebron third a lot of players feel the same.
He said Kobe is second meaning Shooting guard. You gotta keep your comprehension skills sharpened.
To completely throw Kobe out the conversation is insane to me. ESPN will literally disrespect any player not named Jordan or LeBron.
Jordan is the goat hands down!!!!!!
Urr moms a 🐐
Sheeeeeit. MJ was fortunate enough to land with an organization willing to build around him. He was going to leave but they got right.
But Kobe and bron had better teammates
Shannon if it Ain't about RINGS then WHY the Heck are they even Playing!!????
Bill Russell
@@vintagemonteovert wilt, yes
Rings are a group accomplishment.
@@moresomoze sure they are but every group has that extraordinary player that stands out above and beyond everybody else and Michael Jordan definitely was that guy and without him none of his groups would have won a single ring and we all know that same goes for Bill Russell Kobe Shaq everybody
MJ is the only player to win MVP/Finals MVP/Championship/scoring title, and be first team all defense in the same season. However he did it 4x! MJ is the GOAT.
The only reason people started bringing up everyone else's accolades after people said Jordan was the greatest and then Kobe was after is because they wanted to give Lebron the credibility to partake in the debate.. eitherwise nobody cared about that we saw what we saw and it was obvious
Interesting insights from these NBA ANALYSTS. Why not include LARRY BIRD (3x NBA CHAMPION and 3x NBA MVP) in the GOAT conversation? TIM LEGLER and STEPHEN A's comparison between JORDAN and LEBRON is SPOT ON. MICHAEL JORDAN has cemented his status as the NBA'S UNDISPUTED GOAT 🐐
*coughs* lebron *coughs* kareem
@@julian2nicegive this man a hall's or some mucinex
@@genesthaiaadyaalso send him in for evaluation he might be mentally ill 😵💫
My dude. Have your opinion. If you stop talking about it like it's anything but a complete personal opinion this conversation doesn't exist.
@@moresomoze KID, i'd like to share with you "The GOLDEN ETHICAL RULE on OPINION": PEOPLE are entitled to their OPINION. It's their RIGHT to be OPINIONATED, for them they are RIGHT. If you happen to DISAGREE with their OPINION, you should RESPECT IT and NOT DEMAND an EXPLANATION from THEM (which isn't right, it's RUDE and UNETHICAL). There is NO ROOM for ARGUMENT. PEOPLE who know and practice this were PROPERLY SCHOOLED on ETHICS. An EDUCATED PERSON knows this and applies it in their ENTIRE LIFE with DIFFERENT PEOPLE coming from ALL WALKS OF LIFE.
Ooh! A GOAT debate? Keep the fresh ideas coming, ESPN!
Oh you clicked it again? Keep on boosting the ESPN stat that the goat debate triggers views.
The debate I never knew I needed thanks ESPN 🙏🏼
Kobe is the imitation of Michael Jordan LeBron wishes he had the Killer Instinct in basketball like Michael none of them will ever compared to Michael Jordan
Lebron has flopper instincts
Kobe should’ve easily had 2 more MVPs especially during his run from 2003-2010. The off court issues are why the media couldn’t position him like Lebron or Jordan.
But if we talking ability, winning and impact, Kobe def deserves GOAT recognition. Could do anything Jordan or Bron could do and sometimes better
Problem with Kobe is that people hated him which was his fault mainly. He just rubbed people the wrong way.
@@sunsuddy9310Aside from the cheating scandal what did Kobe do wrong?
@@user-lt1fx2he5s I'm not talking about the scandal or anything serious. He was just known as a mean person. Very polarizing actually. The cheating scandal wasn't the factor.
@@sunsuddy9310They didn’t like Kobe, but were wearing his shoes 😂😂😂
This is cap the nba line actually won should have went to Chris paul. What years was Kobe suppose to win the mvp over who ?🤔
Shannon's criteria is stupid. 3 MVPs and 2 FMVPs... Kobe would have had atleast 3 MVPs if voters weren't biased. And Lebron would have atleast 6 FMVPs if they weren't only given to the winning team.
lebron got robbed of DPOY when they gave it to marc gasol too
Lots of ifs in there.......
MJs game is flawless simple as that thus the TRUE G.O.A.T.
Comparing Kobe & Lebron is a better debate than comparing MJ to either player. He was clearly head & shoulders above both. I've come to believe Shannon Sharpe knows this in his heart of hearts. I'm not sure if it's a close personal friendship, hero worship on Shannon's part (because Lebron has similar political views), a mixture of both, or other emotional factors that are at play. Only God & Shannon know the "why" he can't come to terms with the truth here. :-)
Kobe way better than Jordan
@@AyoGemini I appreciate your love for Kobe. However, even a strong majority of Kobe fans admit MJ was better. There is a reason for that. MJ was the best player on his team from the moment he walked into the NBA until the moment he walked out even during those twilight Wizard years when he was over the hill physically. Kobe, (his teenage years aside), was the second-best player on his team during those Shaq years. MJ was clearly the better player overall, as great as Kobe was. Peace.
@matts_biz Jordan wasn't the best player on his Team. it was Scottie Pippen. Mike was more noticeable
@@AyoGemini That's a laughable comment. Even your main man Kobe, if he was here, would chastise you for that comment.
@matts_biz nah. Know how valuable Scottie was to that team. Kobe would agree with me.
Duncan should be in the GOAT debate.
5x Champ
2x MVP
3x FMVP
15x ALL NBA
15x ALL Defense
Didnt say he was the GOAT but DEFINITELY should be in the convo
This is the problem with using rings, people actually think duncan should be in the goat debate, shaq and larry bird are better
nahhh other people are ahead of him, but definitely top 10 in my opinion
He average 19PPG for his career if anything he’s starting to become way overrated because of team success the Spurs won 60+ games and lost in WCF the year after he retired if Zaza didn’t cheap shot Kawhi they probably win it all
Kobe is def in the discussion 💯
MJ the 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐6-0 In the finals 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Havlicek is 8-0. Hes the goat right?
@@quelaagging8532how many finals MVPs does he have?
@@SkarDCUO Right? It’s so funny to me when they say stuff like that. We’re comparing Jordan and LeCramp. Everyone knows Havlicek isn’t GOAT 😂.
The disrespect to Bean kills me! I remember ESPN analyst literally questioning if Kobe was a better basketball player than mike specifically from ‘07-‘11
The 4-6 record in the finals always does it for me. Lebrons longevity is something to really marvel at, but Jordan has more regular season mvps (5) and he’s got 10 scoring titles, and he’s been DPOY and played 82 games multiple times.
MJs mentality just does it for me too. After they got over the hump against Detroit, He won a 3 peat, went to play baseball then came back 18 months after to win another 3 peat. If it wasn’t for krouse being such an idiot it could’ve been 4 in a row in 98-99 during the lockout year.
nothing wrong with being 1A either but MJ is the Goat to me 🐐
The bulls were great without Jordan , every LEBRON chip was hard. Okay maybe not the first one.
he never beat a team that was 73-9
@@yffmoe facts.
@@yct2.0 all over lebron competition in the finals were tough match ups, don't let the media and the internet trolls fool you and poison y'all minds with that argument.
@@yct2.0 they were good but not great. Every MJ chip looked easy because he was so great lol. No game 7s. 6-0. 2 three peats. That is greatness.
We all know why Kobe doesn’t have more MVPs. Off the court stuff should never have an impact players on court performances. No way Steve Nash should have back to back mvps.
this is facts
This is sooooo True But The Media Refuses to tell the truth instead they ignore it and just lie to the public talking about lebron better than The Great KOBE Never in a million years KOBE Got Cheated out of so many Accolades and the People Know it
Kobe should not even won his 1 MVP that he has. He sucked.
Nash deserved at least one of those mvps in my opinion but its crazy how Kobe only has 1 MVP when he should def have more and people want to use that as an argument to discredit him.
@@Mysterion907 who would Kobe have won mvp over 🤦🏾♂️🤔
Kobe The greatest. (My Opinion)
Kobe is the most overrated athlete in the history of athletics. Kobe shot 40% on 2 pointers in the Finals. Kobe is only mentioned at all because he played for the Lakers.
The only time Kobe got into the finals and i felt he might not win was the first bout with the celtics when Ariza and Bynum were injured. they're both healthy, the lakers would've taken that chip as well. If Kobe had a team with just one other willing Allstar, not superstar, not multiple allstar, i would bet on him even going against Durant, steph and the Warriors. When he was on the court and had some help from role players, you just felt he would find a way to win. IDGAF what anyone thinks, IDGAF about the stats, i remember what i was watching.
Kobe made 7th seed with prime dwight+pau+steve nash+metta world peace
Your smoking crack that was not prime Dwight or prime Ron
He lost 2004 finals with shaq how old are you
@@MoonIronTRand how many games did they all play together collectively
You'd take him over the KD Warriors?
Kobe is the GOD
MJ is the GOAT
Lebron is the KING
That's it, that's the order.
Kobe sucks
Bron fans always bring up [voted] mvps cause they cant win the rings [won] argument anymore. Not 5, not 6, not 7 lmao
Yup! Lmao regurgitating the same old sht
LeMickey fans are too young and dumb and have never even watched a full MJ game or series
If it’s an argument based on rings…Jordan doesn’t even win that debate. The real argument is individual accomplishments & accolades. Both Bron & MJ have arguments in terms of that.
@saanyofficial6154 that would be true if it was an individual sport like tennis. It's always about championship. Was Bron talking about mvps when he said 5, 6, 7?
jordan has more finals mvps, mvps, scoring titles, DPOYs, all defensive teamsn and steals titles while playing 7 fewer healthy seasons.@@saanyofficial6154
Kobe the only player in league history gets penalized for being on a team with another superstar whether it’s the media hating on him in mvp voting for years or when it comes to debate shows it’s funny when you think about how much the goal post is moved with him…
man the difference is he played with a top 10 player of all time while himself obviously being top 10 so makes it unfair
@@sakshamdwivedi4273magic and kareem both top ten all time played with each others and shaq isn't top 10 all time
omg! what an original and groundbreaking discussion!
and here i was, so enthralled by the in season tournament, cuz it's super exciting...cuz espn tells me so!
the last thing i could hope for is two super smart poc's debating such a fresh, new topic
There’s something about MJ that just feels different to any other nba player. He has an aura that nobody else has. And like Stephen A said, he came INTO the league with the mentality of a goat. Lebron has never "felt" like MJ. He's right next to him. Absolutely. But he's not MJ. That dude is 1/1.
And that's a good thing. LBJ is LBJ and MJ is MJ. They played a lot differently and interacted wit their teammates differently. Most players probably would like better to play with LBJ, IMO. Look, MJ was tops. But so is LBJ in different ways.
ESPN needs to fire who ever is comping up with these topics it’s OLD!!!!
It's not the rings... its the loses ...LBJ fans really don't get it 😂😂😂
“Us jorbozos would rather our guy lose in the rounds before the finals rather than him reach the finals because we’re r3tarded.”
@@KtonV Nah, if that was the Case, lebron would make the playoffs every year instead of missing the playoffs for 20 percent of his entire career. He was swept 3 times in 4 game series and gentleman swept another 3 times. Thats 3-24 , and 20 percent never making the playoffs. Add to that, the embarrassment of a double bronze
@@KtonV You seriously comparing the teams Jordan had to face in the East playoffs to the ones Lebron faced? Ironic you call someone "r3tarded," look in the mirror
Who did he lose against again? Can you name the teams he lost too and the teams Jordan beat…and can we compare them? Jordan literally beat Charles Barkley and nobody else🤣 I guess a 40 year old Stockton and Malone combo but seriously this convo needs more context
But I get it bro you Jordashians really don’t like context when it comes down to it…it’s just caveman talk “6-0” even though he played trash teams
21 years, cried for the best teams money can buy, and 3 rings.
Kobe has to get more credit, because I remember when folks was saying he wouldn’t win another ring after Shaq left, and he went on to win 2 more rings without Shaq!
GOAT is a two-person race with MJ beating Lebron.
Most dominant is a two-person race with Shaq beating Wilt.
Greatest shooter is no debate. Steph is in a league of his own. That efficiency and volume while winning? No debate.
Weird I don't have LeBron in my top 5 😮
Ayeee what’s the name of the song at the end ?
I’m really glad they brought up this topic. It’s such a rare thing for them to do!
MJ all day, all night
Man really went to bball reference and seen "22 seasons" just cause they count some seasons as two if you have been traded mid season and said "22 years in the nba"...
How tf did no one challenge him on Ariza being 22 years in the nba???
They don't actually count them as separate seasons. It shows the teams played for in a specific calendar year & list it as TOTAL, followed by the teams played on in that particular season.
These folks be running to look up stats, but hardly ever know how to read them properly.
most original debate in all of basketball! good video guys! espn is definitely not an absolute joke of sports media!
Michael Jordan is the GOAT 🐐 🙌 👌
Tim Duncan honestly needs to be mentioned more.
If Kobe doesn't belong in the GOAT debate (and I'm a huge Kobe fan) there's no way Tim Duncan is going over Kobe in the GOAT debate. I also have mad respect and love for Timmy but naw bro. MJ is the undisputed GOAT 🐐 and nothing will change that. His resume is to clinical and he took the NBA to new peaks and created a global brand. His shoes are the most sought after even 25 years after his Bulls retirement.
@@LazyCrazyGuy I personally have Tim one spot above Kobe but there’s an argument for Kobe over Tim. All personal preference but I prefer Tim
I agree! Duncan deserves more respect
The downfall of modern media can be traced directly back to nonsensical topics and so-called debates like this. Nuance is dead. Actual analysis is discouraged. Clicks and views generated by outrage are all that matter.
I have Kobe over LeBron! MJ is the G.O.A.T
💯💯💯
Yup. Jordan is 1. Kobe is 2. LeBron is 3 💯
They're gonna drop at least 5 more GOAT debate videos before the season ends.
Lebron fans can't accept that people who played with him don't see him as the GOAT. They have seen what he is not able to do. Even his former teammates in the Heat, despite winning a title together, don't see him as the GOAT. That says a lot.
I like to judge by who dominated their era , and you can’t ignore Jordan ….. you wanna talk about #1 in scoring ? Well Jordan had 10 scoring titles and more 35 + point games
ofc he would have more, his main job was to score and not facilitate and got other guys involved. Another fact is MJ is 2nd all in most shots attempts per game in his whole career. He took 23 shots per game for his whole career.
Think of the jumpman logo when you have these kind of debates
Kobe having Shaq is a weak take. He had Shaq for 3 of his rings, then won 2 when he left. MJ had Scottie and Dennis. Kareem had Magic and Worthy. Nobody ever takes away Kareem and Magic's accomplishments. Plus Worthy won a Finals MVP over both of them one year. Lebron had DWade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, Love, DRose, Shaq, Russ, Ray Allen, Big Z, Dwight Howard, etc. How much help do you need bro? Plus he won the least amount of rings out of Kobe, MJ, Kareem.
To disregard Kobe's first 3 championships because he played with Shaq is ridiculous. MJ had Pippen for every championship and always had the most dominant team. Kobe almost 3 peated with his second best player being Pau. The thing a lot of people don't even consider when talking Goats is the defensive side of the ball. Kobe was twice the defender that Lebron was. To act like Kobe shouldn't be in the Goat debate is pure ignorance from people who solely look at accolades.
Casual fans assume a great "all around" player is a player that guys points/rebounds/assists. Not exactly, when defense is 50% of the game. Only Kobe and MJ have both the offensive and defensive achievements. I forget what it was, something like scoring champs and 9x all defensive 1st teams (tied for 1st all time).
I loved Kobe as a player and he was easily one of my favorite players all time. But unfortunately for him, the reason why he quickly gets brushed off as the GOAT is pretty much by default for the reason that he was so similar to MJ in so many ways and when you compare them 2, MJ wins that debate so he kind of automatically gets eliminated because MJ was a better version of Kobe. Not saying MJ was better in every way but when you look at everything combined overall, MJ has him. So that’s why a lot of people quickly disqualify him from the GOAT standard.
They do that because Kobe was the number 2 player for three of those rings. That would be like Jordan being the number two guy and Scotty being the number one guy but then still calling Jordan the goat.
Shaq was mvp player not pippen, Shaq required double teams, pippen didn’t. It’s not ridiculous…
If we're talking peak for peak, I'm taking LeBron defensively over Kobe all day (slightly depends on team composition though). Miami LeBron was a jack of all trades on defense that only really had a problem with the fastest/best guards like Tony Parker and D Rose. Calling out the opponents plays, being a leader on defense, being able to play defense on the perimeter and in the paint is unmatched. There aren't many defenders like Miami LeBron, and the only one I can really think of as someone being an all around great defender is Dray.
RESPECT TO SHANNON FOR MENTIONING WILT!
If wilt the goat, why did he lose to russell almost evry time in the finals,
@@Mt554. Because Bill Russell's Celtics was stacked with numerous all stars and hall of famers. Wilt only had (HOF) Hal Greer on his team. The rest of his 76ers teammates were average but yet they still beat the Celtics in the 67 playoffs en route to their first chip. He averaged 21.6 points, 32 rebounds and 10 assists and took out the stacked Celtics in 5 games. 👍
Kobe is the GOAT
Kobe Bryant has the NBA record for most points scored by a G in a decade (21,065) in the 2000 decade.
This averages out to a ridiculous 2106 points per season for 10 seasons while being All NBA 1st team defense nearly each of these seasons as well, a feat never done before, and will not be done again.
His 28.2 Ppg. are the most for the decade, more importantly they were highly efficient at 1.3 points per FGA, about as efficient as a G can get.
He also had the most assists and rebounds for a SG over this time.
Kobe’s astounding 21,065 points came exactly in midst of the slowest paced, most defensive oriented decade in NBA history by all defensive metrics and parameters.
*** This one separates him from MJ
His plus minus of +3470 is the best for any Top 75 G over a decade in NBA history.
He was undefeated in the WCF averaging 30-6-6 and beat the most 50 win teams in NBA history, all on his route to winning the most rings in the decade.
He also had the most playoff points in the decade, as well as the most playoff wins (98), compared to Duncan with 82 for context.
*** How did MJ do vs. Bird or Isiah in the playoffs ?
Key point :
What makes all this nearly inconcievable is Kobe played nearly 4 years of this decade with players like Chris Mihm, Smush Brown, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown in the STARTING LINEUP and still had the astounding +/- and most playoff wins etc.
*** Separates Kobe from MJ
Soon as his team got 1 marginal allstar player in Pau Gasol, (an 18 ppg. scorer, below average defender, previously 0-12 in the playoffs), they go to 3 straight Finals through that 10 team deep Western Conference gauntlet inspite of all the attrition, as Kobe becomes the only player in NBA history to have 600+ points, 100+ assists, 100+ rebounds in 3 straight post seasons as well as the only player ever to win back to back Finals MVP’s without a top 75 teammate.
*** Separates Kobe from MJ
Kobe also won without Shaq, something the great MJ was not able to do without Pippen. The numbers are broad in the regular season and playoffs.
*** Key separator between Kobe and Jordan
To most people, you can't be the goat with just one regular season mvp and Jordan outclassed Kobe in every metric: scoring+defense
That's why Kobe build his entire game around MJ
They will never give credit to Kobe. It is intentional. A dumb media narrative.
So for Stephen A what sets them apart is how they were different when they weren't winning...
Make no mistake about it.
Stephen A is MJ's Frat Brother
Shannon is a Bronsexual
That much is obvious just so we understand why nobody is ever allowed to personally pick Kobe over MJ or Lebron.
And Tim Leger's take doesn't matter because he's up there guessing. "Never heard ANYBODY say Kobe" 🤔get him outta here!
Brons first ring.. Shortened season ,, his 2nd ring.. Thanks to Ray Allen.. 3rd ring,, thanks to Drays suspension and the last one the bubble ring.. Y'all need to wake up.. Those are all questionable rings! Giannis' lone ring screams louder than those 4.. Queen James will be the GOAT among Kardashians😅😅😅
Cry
Even Dirk’s ring is more meaningful than Lebron’s rings.
Don’t forget about letting Kyrie close the game for him on ring three.
@@yct2.0kobe is the goat 🐐
Bro im here Everytime
Tim Duncan is the G.O.A.T He didn't care about individual stats he just beat everybody he played against and never had a losing season in 19 years. That's all.
Yeah but LeBron dropped 30 points at 38 years old..
😂😂😂
2 of the most impressive about duncan's resume are .... he prevented the kobe/shaq from going 4peat & going history... & he prevented the fake 🐐, d/wade & bosh from going 3peat ..... imagine, if the lakers won 4peat, no team in the nba after the boston in the 60's won 4 straight titles ....
@@johnnier.o.d4746 I have Tim over Bron all time because of this
@@juliuscaesar6994 Again, individual stat. But he couldn't beat Timmy. Duncan was more dominant against Lebron than Lebron against him. And twice the defender.
@@TheTlewis3074 I was being sarcastic with my first comment..
cut it out. everyone older than 29 years old knows that if you were picking your team in a park the order is as follows...
1st) is mj and 2nd) is kobe period.
and 3rd is a tossup between magic and lebron....carry on.
ESPN short on content as the Lakers aren't playing. There are other teams that actually won last night like the Pelicans. 🏀🇬🇧
Anyone know the song to the outri
Brand new refreshing debate
Yay another GOAT debate. Can’t wait
It's not merely the ring. It's being the best player and the finals mvp with the rings. It's the elite offense coupled with elite defense. It's the 10 scoring titles. Also the eye test. People got their money's when they went to a Jordan. The man was available. I don't want to take away from any great players that contributed to a championship team, but in a SERIOUS GOAT conversation we have to be more critical.
Exactly.
To be considered the GOAT, you first have to be the leader of your team.
Obviously, when we lok at the greatest leaders of their teams, we're looking at whether or not they led their team to the promised land, and how often they did so whilst consistently being the greatest on heir team while doing so.
Jordan did it with TWO 3PEATS.
SIX in EIGHT SEASONS.
THEY NEVER MENTION THE 3PEATS FFS
i forgot his career is only 8 seasons@@evaburnz
MJ had a better championship run. 6-0 with 6 FMVPs. But LBJ is a better all around basketball player with a greater all around body of work.
@@fearlesskingdom4051 huh? not really, dont get me wrong lebron resume is insane and stacked. Mj resume doesnt fall short to lebrons, considering the time he played, he without any doubt was a better defender than lebron.
@@luisdanielvega99 lebron is the better blocker and rebounder, and can guard all positions unlike mj, mj might be better against guards, but lebron is more versatile, and to some teams thats more valuable
What schedule is the goat debate on at ESPN? 4x a month?
Loool this debate will never end
You do not automatically disqualify Kobe for being to close to Jordan who everyone calls the goat? So Kobe being to close to the goat would make him in the conversation because he is the closest thing to Jordan.
LeBron can't be in the question because of his FINALS record 22-33 that is TERRIBLE. Kobe record is 23-14 and Jordan is 24-11. Disqualified LeBron.
To be the goat you have to have at least a 3 peat because that means you were without a doubt the best payer at that time that you dominant 3 years in a row. For LeBron to be in the convo he needs that 3 peat that he never got so how is that the greatest to ever play. 3 peats are rare and that makes you a goat. And LeBron has had the team's to do it. No reason the heat shouldn't have gotten it done LeBron I his prime on a team we have never seen before until the KD warriors which would have 3 peated if KD stayed another year
Lastly. Kobe played in 37 finals, games. LeBron played in 55 finals games in a best of 7. That's almost 20 more gamess.
kobe has more wins than LeBron and more rings than LeBron in way less attempts. Lebron hasnt even won more times in the finals series with way more chances too. Kobe almost got two 3 peats, which the Boston team split with Kobe or he would have got a 3peat without Shaq let's be honest. It's Jordan Kobe LeBron because LeBron came up short and the media won't ever tell you that
You can make to many arguments for Kobe he did it without superstars. Everyone always wants to say Shaq, who only played in about 50 games a season. Missing about 30 games a year Kobe had to keep the team alive. Shaq fouls out in the 4th even in playoffs vs pacers. Kobe has had to carry that team a good amount and he still won 2 in a row without Shaq and went to 3 in a row without Shaq... I didn't see Shaq do that without Kobe if he is the only reason they won. Talking about he had Shaq. You could also argue that Kobe did more with less because he is that great aka the goat. He famously chased away stars and did not want them to join him. Ran Shaq put the building ran Howard out the building, didn't call major stars to come there. If that is not the definition of a goat then I don't understand the criteria because he also passed Jordan in points. Has the highest scoring game in recorded history because wilts was not on tape. Had the streak of 50 point games and 40 point games and played in a more physical Era today he would drop 100 points and be more scary than KD because he's more dog than KD.
It's a harder case to say Kobe is not the goat than to say that he is the goat. But it is even harder to say that about LeBron. Did I mention 20 years with one team.. and still accomplish all of that. There was no Miami and playing with 5 hall of fame players only to get 2 rings out of 4 tries and the only time LeBron has won back to back. Kobe did that twice with and without Shaq. I'll drop the mic here
Lebron wasn't scared in his year going up to his first title. he performed really well as a rookie and carried his cavs team to the finals in 07
Well he did play terrible in 2007 championship
@@vulcanraven9701 he didn't play terrible. He had 22 7 and 7. His efficiency and turnovers were bad but that's because he went up against 4 hall of famers in only his 4th year and had no other right hand man to attract the spurs defense to take heat off him.
@@vulcanraven9701 jordan choked against shaq in 95, kobe choked against the pistons, it happens
@@Mt554. Jordan avg 31ppg in that series and Kobe/Lebron avg 22ppg with subpar shooting in their series..those series are not comparable imo
lebron average 17 ppg his 1st finals and got swept then totally disappeared in his 2nd finals against Dallas and he had a Superteam how tf is that Goat Status make it make sense
It’s that time of year again 😂
Michelangelo had a hundred times more artworks made than DaVinci's 20 paintings.
But is he the GOAT?
Sometimes it's a matter of how they've shown mastery.
Kobe's accolades were shorthanded, but can never discredit his mastery of the game. His prime work & skillset were untouchable. As oppose to someone who can't even hit "freethrows".
And the real pros, NBA legends themselves know, "who smokes who?"
It’s a difference between Greatest PLAYER, and Greatest CAREER. I would never say Kareem was a better player than Shaq, but with 6 rings & 6 MVP’s, you can’t argue & say Shaq had a better career than him.
Once you look at it that way, you’d realize LeBron is the best player we’ve seen by far, and MJ had the best NBA career anybody’s seen by far. Both great in their own right
You can’t have the greatest career if you aren’t the greatest player 😂 you a idiot!
wait a minute ive never heard this argument before
That's a good argument never heard it before
@@holyghost8467 it literally makes no sense and is just a cop out
Good argument. I'd say it the other way. LeBron had a better career [longevity], but Jordan was better player. Peak offense/defense and winning.
Kobe
How can Kobe even be in the GOAT conversation when he's not even the best at his own position?
Oh what a great topic to debate about. Finally something “new”
Since Kobe passed the media been tarnashing his legacy if he was still alive media will be saying he is better than Lebron
Nothing but fax
The simplest reason why MJ is the GOAT is because, as Stephen A. says, he was an assassin from the moment he got into the league, and as soon as he got actual help from his teammates, once Scottie became an All-Star, Jordan never again didn't win a championship after playing a full season. Basically, he couldn't win it all by himself, which no one can, and once he got actual help he never again didn't win it all, and he never even allowed game 7. That's crazy. Mind you, if his father didn't get murdered, it's possible Bulls would've won 8 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS! Couple that with 10 scoring championships, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, 9-time first team all-defense, playing 80+ games almost every season, etc. It's MJ, he's the GOAT. Period
And Scottie wasn't even an all star in 1991 (THE FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP).......
Preach! 👏🏽
He lost in a 1995
@@gmailgmail6234 So goofy?? Do you not hear how ridiculous you sound? Yeah he lost in May of '95 after coming back in March of '95... LeBron had the biggest meltdown chokejob that we have ever seen from a superstar on the biggest stage which is the Finals, in his PRIME .... Also with Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade on the floor with him which should have made it easier smh LeBron even being mentioned in the same breathe as MJ is pure comedy
They always bring this up every year
Can't believe this has never been debated on ESPN before! FINALLY a network brave enough to compare Jordan and Lebron!
So lame smh like talk about anything else dude I’ll take a practice clip anything else Idc