Mrs. Brisby is a great protagonist because she left her comfort zone to find a cure for her son, despite the fact she was way out of her depth and scared out of her mind. The fact that the Rats of Thorn Valley don’t give her a statue and reduce her heroics to being “The Wife of Johnathan Brisby” is fucking insulting.
Well yes she is amzing but to be fair Jhonathan did something heroic that benefieted the smart rats and mice, mrs Brisby did something heroic for her kids that was noticed by some not all
@@eevis588 Yeah back in the 20th century. Now there's so much 'Women of Power' or "Female Empowerment" stuff that when we see a female who acts and does stuff like how women have been for centuries is seen as wrong and that the woman should change her lifestyle to the point of divorcement in many cases. Also, some female movie writer just tried to make the argument that her film/biopic "Origin" about the first black female Nobel Prize winner of two categories ( one for journalism and the other I can't recall for this comment.) should be equal to if not higher than Christopher Nolan's 'Oppenheimer' due to how no body is watching her film. Seriously, trying to compare the man who literally changed both the world in terms of power and warfare to the point of complete world ending to a journalist who won two Nobel's is like comparing a pebble to a mountain. There is no equality to compare the two, yet she tries to, while also saying that audiences that went to see Oppenheimer are racist. Same with this; now Mrs. Brisby certainly deserved more credit, but than again, she was just a mother doing what she could to save her family, nothing more, nothing less. Not every hero needs a statue, yes, there are outliers, people who had done so much in the name of honor, duty, sacrifice, and creation that they earned their statues. But then there are those that don't deserve them, like George Floyd when it was discovered in the toxicology report that he had taken a speed ball just before being arrested. Is it ashamed he died, yes, but when you look at what spiraled out from it doesn't justify him being remembered as a martyr with a statue. Besides, can we really say that Mrs.Brisby didn't want a statue? There are many soldiers and heroes who take what they did in stride and the thought of being remember as some larger than life hero would put them off. They had a job to do and they were the ones willing to do it. Sorry for this tangent and rant Eevis588, it started a bit more like a jab at what has happened in the 21st century, but turned to a rant about how "modern" women and minority sub groups are causing a lot of unnecessary problems and pain.
@@lonesavior Indeed, and this film wasn’t even written or directed by the original creator of the first movie. Heck I don’t think it even is made by the same studio, so already it’s just a cash grab to end a movie license.
It's so fucking insulting how they treated Mrs. Brisby like trash in this. She saved not only her dying son and other children but all the other mice and rats who went on to live in Thorn Valley. She's not just a mother or widow, but a hero.
Yeah, though I honestly think they brushed her to the side, because they couldn't get her original voice, and the original Bluth team to do it, so they made a new story with a new main character.
If I remember correctly, the rats and Mr Ages and Jonathan's children age very slowly as a side effect of the injections from NIMH, that's why Mrs Brisby is so much older compared to everyone else
Yup! She gets a little life extension thanks to having carried Jonathan's children (also why she can read/write), but tbh she probably wouldn't have made it to the end of this movie since it's apparently years going by.
I need to unpack the implications of this. If carrying Jonathons children made her “smarter”at least enough to read and write, what was her intelligence before?? Did Jonathan have sex with a regular mouse? Like a non anthro mouse??
@@avery996789 yeah kinda weird lol Iirc in the book they say she and all mice are kinda intelligent but not able to comprehend things like written language. I can't remember if they go further into the explanation on that. As for her, it made her smarter because the NIMH mice/rats had altered genetics, and having his babies in her affected her via the bloodstream and changed some of hers too. Ultimately it was a book for kids so it's probably like the Pokemon/fighting animals thing where you're just not expected to think that far into it lol.
With Land Before Time, at least it's easy to ignore the sequels since the premise revolves around baby dinosaurs. With NIMH however, there would be so much insane lore that would be almost impossible to ignore! But thankfully, we only had one sequel, so it's easy to separate it as its own dumb thing. I would LOVE a proper follow up though.
@@benjamincopelin3795 It would be great to see what happened to Mrs Brisby taking leadership and what her kids would grow up to be. This isn't it. Again, Land Before time also deserved a proper follow up of the kids maturing and fitting in their herd with the others and becoming leaders. But that didn't happen either.
Don Bluth pretty much hated all the sequels. Not that I blame him. Though, I agree, "Fievel Goes West" wasn't bad, it was just more focused on comedy. (Still love the "Putting on the Ritz" & "Blues Brothers" reference.)
The Great Owl scene in The Secret of Nimh : dark, atmospheric, and genuinely frightening yet fascinating. The Great Owl scene in The Secret of NIMH 2: a nauseatingly cute song and dance number.
It's a bit excusable cuz it's not actually the Great Owl in NIMH 2, it's Jeremy pretending to be him. Still dumb as Hell, but in context it makes more sense as to why it's dumb as Hell
Man it makes me so happy hearing that these guys love Fievel Goes West. The movie isn't the kind I'd call a masterpiece or something, but it is a pretty enjoyable film. Fun songs, some nice animation, and the story continues some themes of the lives of immigrants into the migration west.
I'm going to say it- it's not as beautiful or emotional as the first movie, but it's so much more rewatchable. Tiger does a lot more, Fievel and Tanya get to have personalities, and it's focused on the protagonists not random tagalong side characters. Also: Cat R Waul is just a better villain than Warren T Rat. As a kid I watched it 20 times more often.
@@Tareltonlives I just couldn't watch the first one cause we didn't have it on VHS xD But yeah, the first is a classic for a reason. Moving. Emotional. Beautiful animation. Great commentary of the plight of immigrants. But man Fievel goes west is fun. I'm a sucker for a western, and it's the same reason why Back to the Future part 3 is my favorite in the series. Cat R Waul is also, like you said, a great villain- "No no no, we will not eat them _yet_ , first we shall exploit them for their labors." Like gosh, that is some vicious stuff xD And I think that the film still gets across a lot of the commentary from the original film. Yeah, this one is definitely more silly, but it also continues the idea of how people were fed rosy depictions of life out west. I recall a real life example of how Oregon country was said to "have full grown pigs with fork and knife already in the back, ready for you to cut off a slice" - gruesome but okay xD Another interesting thing about the film - Jimmy Stewart, legend of Hollywood, had his final role as Wiley. Some have lamented this as sad, as embarrassing for him - but he gave it seriousness. In that final scene with him and Fievel, when he says: "One man's sunset is another man's dawn." -It gets me every time. The only sad thing about the film for me... they made a third film and _completely_ retconned the second. They literally pulled the "it was all a dream." Stupid. Utterly stupid.
"migration west" lmfao you mean the brutal and violent occupation of other people's lands and the subjugation, removal, enslavement and genocide of entire peoples.
@@Tareltonlives I disagree, Fievel had a personality in the first movie. He was curious, mischievous, hyperactive, a dreamer, a silly-heart. Tanya admittedly didn't have a personality much (until the sequel) besides her optimism, and cute kid moments. She was cooler in the sequel, more sassy, had dreams, had confidence issues, and such. Her ponytail was a cute touch too.
One of the only things this film gets right is that Mrs. Brisby is noticeably older looking and feeble because she married a mouse of Nimh. The rats and mice of Nimh age slower than their counterparts. Sad that the story did nothing with that. Like maybe focusing on her aging and her kids staying youthful
I remember being in 2nd grade reading the NIHM series and being fascinated. The first movie was amazing. This second one… wooo boy…just watch “Once Upon a Forest” instead
I feel like a simple way to salvage this movie would have been to make Mrs. Brisby the protagonist again; Timmy gets in over his head bc the Rats gave him a Atlas Complex for no reason while Martin makes bad decisions out of jealousy that gets all of them caught by NIMH, leaving Mrs. Brisby to rescue them like Johnathan did in the first place. After she finishes chewing out the Rats for giving her sons issues, they get over their sexist bullshit and recognize her as a hero alongside her husband.
Or, have this be a family adventure with Mrs. Brisby and her kids. The rats are like "Timmy! You're the chosen one! We must train you, and only you" and Mrs. Brisby says "No, you will teach ALL of my children your rat knowledge.". She does her best to prevent Timmy from getting egotistical, and Timmy is less cocky than he would be without her. Martin is jealous, he turns evil, the rats say "Timmy! You must stop Martin by yourself!" Mrs. Brisby has none of that nonsense, and goes to save Martin herself, but Timmy does sneak after her, and her other kids follow him to stop him. Timmy gets there first, somehow, so an epic fight can happen between Martin and his siblings. His siblings lose, and when all hope is lost, Mrs Brisby appears. Martin attacks. Mrs Brisby dodges, desperately trying to appeal to Martin. Brief flashes of the old Martin are seen, but the brainwashing keeps regaining control. Then, Mrs Brisby lunges. And wraps her son in a hug. She cries, he cries, everyone cries. Then she takes her kids back home and never lets the rats of NIMH near her kids again. The end.
@@genericname2747 She cries, he cries, they cry... I cry. If the movie felt like the first, i probably would at the ending of that. If not for the emotional bits, for the relief at the end
I'd go even more insane by having the rats go all fascist ethnostate or something lol. I mean, the whole race analogy is there, might as well make the movie ultra uncomfortable!
@@genericname2747and the rats do all this cos of a prophecy(which Nicodemus saw while he was supposedly still alive but it's only coming up now for some reason and it's only twice) they decide for themselves that that it has to be Timmy and trigger everything.(aside from a couple things that back later, they didn't teach him squat)I'd change the wording so it's instead: 'One of Jonathan Brisbys own...' so it's left ambiguous and nothing is set in stone.(his own...children? His wife? Friends? Enemies?) Could be anybody.
No way you could get away with that nowadays. And couldn't most rodents not read in the previous movie? Miss Brisby remarked she could only read a little.
I... honnestly hate saying anything in this movie's deffense, but the reason that Just and Mr Ages haven't aged is because the experiment that heightened inteligence also slowed the aging process. Which doesn't explain why Niccodemus was a billion years old, but whatever.
The craziest thing about this movie? There was a sequel to the Secret of NIMH novel but apparently this movie has nothing to do with the book ever. They just straight up decide that they should make a very kid friendly movie entirely from scratch and especially without Don Bluth's involvement. Man.
Secret of NIMH was adapted from the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH. The daughter of the author did two follow books Rasco and the Rats of NIMH, R-T, Margaret and the Rats of NIMH. all three can be gotten from bookstores
I have to defend their decision to age Mrs. Brisby. In both the first movie and the book it's based on, the experiments prolong the rats' and mouses' lifespan. Brisby has not been altered and therefore will age like a normal mouse.
This film feels weirdly misogynistic. Mrs Brisby is just relegated to widow and mother of the messiah Timmy, and with all her struggles and duty from the first film completely ignored. Not even getting a statue! Then, Jenny who actually has an interesting back story whose trying to save her family plays second fiddle to whiney, off-key warbler dumbo Timmy! I feel so sorry for Jenny she deserved to be in a better film - I liked her character, and she's voice by Teen Titans Starfire too!
Mrs. Brisby (whose name, in a funny fyi, was changed from novel's Mrs. Frisby to avoid copyright infridgement with the company "Frisbee") not only wasn't recognized, she didn't even get to go see her son awarded with the key to the city or to help her son get settled. In reading the summary of one of the novel's sequel's it provides some info around this: as Timothy inherited his father's extremely high intelligent & lifespan, he moved to Thorn Valley in order to receive the same accelerated education as the rat children. There was no award ceremony mentioned. This film sequel was much worse than the original, which was a classic film! There were already 2 sequels to the novel,so why didn't they buy the rights to them instead of this weird story? 1 sequel, "Racso & The Rats of NIHM" has Timothy, as a side/co main character, meeting Racso, a city rat, as they both were relocating to Thorn Valley. Racso is Jenner's (who was the rat trying to keep the rats of NIHM from leaving in the 1st film, but had left with some separatists prior to Mrs. Frisby meeting the rats of NIHM in the 1st novel) son & while both are integrating to Thorn Valley (Rasco to country living & Timothy to his education), the rats discover humans are planning to build a dam nearby, which will flood the valley & rat colony. The rats (& Timothy) create a plan to sabotage the project & reprogram the developers' computers. Sure, there is no love interest in the novel's sequel, though they absolutely could have changed Rasco to a female character if they absolutely NEEDED to try to reproduce An American Tail's "Somewhere out there" male/female duet like they did during the scene they were caged. Not one of Lee Holdridge's (the music producer for the film sequel) best ideas.
I remember watching this as a kid, Hell I still have it on DVD. But as an adult I can understand why a lot of people thought this unnecesary sequel was cheesy (No pathetic pun intended.) But if I'm being honest for me the only two things that made this movie worth watching was the songs and the voice acting.
I showed this movie to my father(which this was one of his childhood favorites aside from An American Tail), the whole time I watch the light drain from his eyes.
this movie indeed sucks but in the first movie they _did_ cover why Mrs. Brisby aged while the others didn't was because of the experiments they endured in NIMH; along with their enhanced intelligence, they were also made to age less slowly. it's been a while, but iirc they said that's why Johnathan never told Mrs. Brisby about NIMH.
Whoa, WHAT?? There actually was a “Secret of Nimh 2”?? I always thought “Once Upon a Forest” was an unofficial sequel… *Edit* it also has just come to my attention that “Once Upon a Forest” wasn’t even a Don Bluth film.
If I’m remembering correctly… Mrs. Brisby started growing old due to the knowledge of Nimh given to her by Nicodemus before he gave her the stone. It’s knowledge of the horror that would age those that did not go through the tests Nimh preformed on the rodents apparently. In other words if Johnathan had told her about Nimh she would grow old while he remained young if he hadn’t been killed.
I suppose, the voice actor for Nicodemus made the line sound confusing anyways. This is why we should stick to the books for all the story beats.@@toomanyaccounts
The sad thing is it could have worked or at least a bit better is if they make it be that they asked all the kids if they want to be trained to be heros and only the two brothers say yes, then have it be the girl character shows up when there young and build there relationship, and also make it be the one brother that's the villian later in the movie have it be when the girl show up he leaves against ther teachers wishes because they are not ready yet but he wants to help those in trouble or even have it they both try to leave but only the one brother is stoped from going
Capybaras we’re briefly labeled fish by the church way back because so they could eat them during those times they’re not allowed meat but only fish (I dunno what it’s called sorry) so it was their work around for it, they justified it by pointing out how much time they spend in the water
EDIT: oh no wait you're right about that part, sorry. I remembered beavers were similarily eaten for that reason and jumped ahead on it. Sorry. That was beavers, and they would eat the tail because they believed that beavers were part mammal, part fish, with the tail part being fish cuz it was scaly, so they could eat that on meatless Fridays during Lent
A bespectacled sabercat, and an animesque coyote girl. They are cool, and cute. Almost makes me want a cuter avatar lol. No... Must not go furry... lol
"...yeah, it doesn't matter about genetics or legacy, but more of merits... but this is a baby film from the 1990s, I don't know wtf I'm talking about." Hey, filmmakers are STILL making this mistake. Look at the Star Wars sequels.
It's funny- Star Wars 1-6 deconstructed the whole idea of the Chosen One with Anakin going evil and Luke saving the day was being merciful rather than being powerful. And then they just played it straight.
As awful as this movie is, hearing Eric Idle go absolutely insane and just start singing this hilariously stupid villain song is so dumb that I can't help but laugh at it.
Adult Martin after he gets "fixed" from being Eric Idle was the VA of Fievel. You can not tell because by this point he's an adult therefore no longer sounding like a kid.
They actually mention in the first movie that the rats and mice of Nimh's age process went slower than normal because of the experiments they went through. Along with Nicodemus telling her, "you would've grown old while he remained young" when he gave her the stone. Sequel's still hot garbo nonetheless. Love your movie night streams, Saberspark!
I’m not so sure if anyone brought this up yet; but in the first film, Nicodemus brought up the fact that not only the serum made them intelligent, but had altered the age process to where they age slowly like humans. Therefore to Brisby, she would grow old, while everyone else remained young (hence probably the reason why she looks old in the second film). With that being said, It also makes me wonder if her children have been given those genetics by their father Jonathan 🤔
Movie 1: "Your husband was a good man Mrs Brisby but you are a true hero" Movie 2: "JONATHAN BRISBY IS THE MESIAH AND HIS SON IS THE SECOND COMING!!" Mrs Brisby: but.... "SHUT UP WOMAN!"
I actually used to watch this *all the time* as a kid. I thought it was a fun movie and I do still think that once they get to N.I.M.H. the story does actually have some merit. Obviously nowhere near as good as the original though but I didn't see that until I was like, 15
I know it's bad but this movie will always hold a special place in my heart cause I loved it as a kid (and tbh I think I had a crush on Tim? Idk). I loved the songs and the funny facial expressions and animation errors
That’s so true about the difference between men and women as they age. Why can’t everyone just be valued as a person regardless of any other value society might see in them?
Okay so embarrassing story uhhhhhhhh I was obsessed with this movie as a child and it was only in my TEENS i realized how eughhh it was ,. I realized I was in love with my initial idea of what it COULD have been . But yeah.. Its embarrassing to say this was the sparking force of my 8 YEAR LONG NIMH obsession/hyperfixation. OHHH my GODDD. Though if I could brush up watching the original maaaaaaybe ,,, I could write a better version that matches the glorious idea i had of it before watching it, the image i had in my mind when I saw it in a blockbuster in 1999 (?) who knows. Anyway great nostalgia trip Thx.
Not really that embarrassing, honestly. I know i spoke highly of a movie or tv show or something and when i sat down to watch it again with someone else, i realized i literally only remembered my headcanon. The actual story was okay, then got bad, and i had to deal with the fact that i seemed so excited about it but really didn't like it on rewatch. It was only good when i was overlaying my ideas to give meaning to their actions. Now i can't even remember what it was, and it's only been a few years.
I remember this movie…I can’t remember how many times I watched it as a kid and I was bummed that I could never find the first one. It’s been a long, long time since I’ve seen either of them…the first one I watched more recently, but I can’t remember much from either of them except for the unforgettable, somewhat horrific majesty of the owl.
Honestly I thought it was really cool how talking to animators changed your approach to reviewing a little bit. So often I see animation review channels critique work in a way that pretty much ignores the realities of the industry, which fair enough, I don't expect them to fully understand it if they're not a part of it. But considering that while also reviewing media based on its own content makes for a much better review in my opinion.
I didn't know that there was a sequel of that animated movie I still didn't watch in my life. It was exceptionally good that I didn't know about this not-so-well-known sequel not because this wasn't broadcasted in all countries, but because this is inferior compared to the animated movies Don Bluth made.
Awe yeah! The weak cash in that had a flimsy plot and had no involvement with Don Bluth. Such a classic dumpster fire that warms the cockles of thy heart. [edit] Note: No offense on the animation nor the animators who worked on this film. It is wonderful work, but compared to the first movie it was really watered down and the studio skinflinting the budget. Just felt betrayed when I watched this blind thinking I'm getting Don B. adventure, but instead a Saturday morning cartoon special.
There's only one true Don Bluth sequel (for lack of better word), and that's Bartok the Magnificent. I mean, I like Fievel Goes West, but it's the exception.
Quick note for ya; the serum that the rats, Johnathan, and Mr. Ages were injected with greatly slows the aging process. Since all of Johnathan brisby's offspring also are affected by the serum, they slowly ages as well 🧐
Speaking of Fieval Goes West, you guys should do the other two "An American Tail" sequels, "The Treasure Under Manhattan and "The Mystery of the Night Monster"
That movie sucks because it’s disrespectful to the source material even from the original classic back in the 80s. Why bother making a sequel to harm us fans alike? Damn.
I was legit just thinking about this sequel the other day and how much of a disgrace it is compared to the first movie. The Secret of NIMH didn't deserve to be done dirty like this.
Why did this movie age up Mrs. Brisby and her two daughters? I would have thought that they would look like this when Timmy gets reunited with them as an adult, not as a much older mouse kid. Timmy and Martin just look a little bit older than their first movie self.
I always thought this movie was amazing. Younger weaker brother the one with all the expectations and the chosen one stuff while the older brother slowly becomes resentful of that before becoming separated and becoming a villain. Earning a scientists (essentially a very powerful figure in this) trust only to betray them and turn them and their colleagues into mindless pets. Trying to corrupt the chosen brother to join him and yeah. Lol. But then i rewatch it and realize that i very much forgot about 99% of this movie and made it better in my mind.
I have this headcanon that the entire sequel was just a fever dream that Timmy had while fighting pneumonia.
I love that lmao
This is the sequel that's a fever dream, not Fievel Goes West. That movie was fun
I will except that headcanon
@@cordellriemer5177 accept* ♥
@@cordellriemer5177 Same
Mrs. Brisby is a great protagonist because she left her comfort zone to find a cure for her son, despite the fact she was way out of her depth and scared out of her mind. The fact that the Rats of Thorn Valley don’t give her a statue and reduce her heroics to being “The Wife of Johnathan Brisby” is fucking insulting.
A life story of all women in a nutshell.
Well yes she is amzing but to be fair Jhonathan did something heroic that benefieted the smart rats and mice, mrs Brisby did something heroic for her kids that was noticed by some not all
@@eevis588 Yeah back in the 20th century. Now there's so much 'Women of Power' or "Female Empowerment" stuff that when we see a female who acts and does stuff like how women have been for centuries is seen as wrong and that the woman should change her lifestyle to the point of divorcement in many cases.
Also, some female movie writer just tried to make the argument that her film/biopic "Origin" about the first black female Nobel Prize winner of two categories ( one for journalism and the other I can't recall for this comment.) should be equal to if not higher than Christopher Nolan's 'Oppenheimer' due to how no body is watching her film.
Seriously, trying to compare the man who literally changed both the world in terms of power and warfare to the point of complete world ending to a journalist who won two Nobel's is like comparing a pebble to a mountain. There is no equality to compare the two, yet she tries to, while also saying that audiences that went to see Oppenheimer are racist.
Same with this; now Mrs. Brisby certainly deserved more credit, but than again, she was just a mother doing what she could to save her family, nothing more, nothing less. Not every hero needs a statue, yes, there are outliers, people who had done so much in the name of honor, duty, sacrifice, and creation that they earned their statues. But then there are those that don't deserve them, like George Floyd when it was discovered in the toxicology report that he had taken a speed ball just before being arrested. Is it ashamed he died, yes, but when you look at what spiraled out from it doesn't justify him being remembered as a martyr with a statue.
Besides, can we really say that Mrs.Brisby didn't want a statue? There are many soldiers and heroes who take what they did in stride and the thought of being remember as some larger than life hero would put them off. They had a job to do and they were the ones willing to do it.
Sorry for this tangent and rant Eevis588, it started a bit more like a jab at what has happened in the 21st century, but turned to a rant about how "modern" women and minority sub groups are causing a lot of unnecessary problems and pain.
They didn't give the woman in this movie a statue either, even though she did more than Timmy.
@@lonesavior Indeed, and this film wasn’t even written or directed by the original creator of the first movie. Heck I don’t think it even is made by the same studio, so already it’s just a cash grab to end a movie license.
It's so fucking insulting how they treated Mrs. Brisby like trash in this. She saved not only her dying son and other children but all the other mice and rats who went on to live in Thorn Valley. She's not just a mother or widow, but a hero.
Yeah, though I honestly think they brushed her to the side, because they couldn't get her original voice, and the original Bluth team to do it, so they made a new story with a new main character.
If I remember correctly, the rats and Mr Ages and Jonathan's children age very slowly as a side effect of the injections from NIMH, that's why Mrs Brisby is so much older compared to everyone else
Yup! She gets a little life extension thanks to having carried Jonathan's children (also why she can read/write), but tbh she probably wouldn't have made it to the end of this movie since it's apparently years going by.
I need to unpack the implications of this. If carrying Jonathons children made her “smarter”at least enough to read and write, what was her intelligence before?? Did Jonathan have sex with a regular mouse? Like a non anthro mouse??
@@avery996789 yeah kinda weird lol
Iirc in the book they say she and all mice are kinda intelligent but not able to comprehend things like written language. I can't remember if they go further into the explanation on that.
As for her, it made her smarter because the NIMH mice/rats had altered genetics, and having his babies in her affected her via the bloodstream and changed some of hers too.
Ultimately it was a book for kids so it's probably like the Pokemon/fighting animals thing where you're just not expected to think that far into it lol.
@@avery996789 Honestly that's not as weird as, say, Stuart Little being literally his mum's child.
Yep is a field mouse, and jonathan was ordinary house mouse, meaning the children of mrs brisby are hybrids of actual mouse and tested one
I can only wonder what would have happened if they had gone full Land Before Time and made 15 more sequels
Oh God, I kind of want to see that universe 😂😂😂
With Land Before Time, at least it's easy to ignore the sequels since the premise revolves around baby dinosaurs. With NIMH however, there would be so much insane lore that would be almost impossible to ignore! But thankfully, we only had one sequel, so it's easy to separate it as its own dumb thing. I would LOVE a proper follow up though.
@@benjamincopelin3795 It would be great to see what happened to Mrs Brisby taking leadership and what her kids would grow up to be. This isn't it. Again, Land Before time also deserved a proper follow up of the kids maturing and fitting in their herd with the others and becoming leaders. But that didn't happen either.
Eh, there's plenty of books to take inspiration from. Might've been interesting.
Don Bluth pretty much hated all the sequels. Not that I blame him.
Though, I agree, "Fievel Goes West" wasn't bad, it was just more focused on comedy. (Still love the "Putting on the Ritz" & "Blues Brothers" reference.)
The Great Owl scene in The Secret of Nimh : dark, atmospheric, and genuinely frightening yet fascinating.
The Great Owl scene in The Secret of NIMH 2: a nauseatingly cute song and dance number.
It's a bit excusable cuz it's not actually the Great Owl in NIMH 2, it's Jeremy pretending to be him. Still dumb as Hell, but in context it makes more sense as to why it's dumb as Hell
@@Account_Not_Applicable Yes, we know. The fact that it is a fraudulent Great Owl scene is an even bigger insult.
@@tinstrings6312 I think it's fitting, like a metaphor of how the whole movie is basically making a mockery of the first
@@Account_Not_Applicable ha ha, maybe you're on to something, there.
Man it makes me so happy hearing that these guys love Fievel Goes West. The movie isn't the kind I'd call a masterpiece or something, but it is a pretty enjoyable film. Fun songs, some nice animation, and the story continues some themes of the lives of immigrants into the migration west.
I'm going to say it- it's not as beautiful or emotional as the first movie, but it's so much more rewatchable. Tiger does a lot more, Fievel and Tanya get to have personalities, and it's focused on the protagonists not random tagalong side characters. Also: Cat R Waul is just a better villain than Warren T Rat. As a kid I watched it 20 times more often.
@@Tareltonlives I just couldn't watch the first one cause we didn't have it on VHS xD
But yeah, the first is a classic for a reason. Moving. Emotional. Beautiful animation. Great commentary of the plight of immigrants.
But man Fievel goes west is fun. I'm a sucker for a western, and it's the same reason why Back to the Future part 3 is my favorite in the series.
Cat R Waul is also, like you said, a great villain-
"No no no, we will not eat them _yet_ , first we shall exploit them for their labors."
Like gosh, that is some vicious stuff xD
And I think that the film still gets across a lot of the commentary from the original film. Yeah, this one is definitely more silly, but it also continues the idea of how people were fed rosy depictions of life out west. I recall a real life example of how Oregon country was said to "have full grown pigs with fork and knife already in the back, ready for you to cut off a slice" - gruesome but okay xD
Another interesting thing about the film - Jimmy Stewart, legend of Hollywood, had his final role as Wiley. Some have lamented this as sad, as embarrassing for him - but he gave it seriousness. In that final scene with him and Fievel, when he says:
"One man's sunset is another man's dawn."
-It gets me every time.
The only sad thing about the film for me... they made a third film and _completely_ retconned the second. They literally pulled the "it was all a dream." Stupid. Utterly stupid.
@WasatchWind THERE. IS. NO. 3RD. 😊
"migration west"
lmfao you mean the brutal and violent occupation of other people's lands and the subjugation, removal, enslavement and genocide of entire peoples.
@@Tareltonlives I disagree, Fievel had a personality in the first movie. He was curious, mischievous, hyperactive, a dreamer, a silly-heart.
Tanya admittedly didn't have a personality much (until the sequel) besides her optimism, and cute kid moments. She was cooler in the sequel, more sassy, had dreams, had confidence issues, and such. Her ponytail was a cute touch too.
One of the only things this film gets right is that Mrs. Brisby is noticeably older looking and feeble because she married a mouse of Nimh. The rats and mice of Nimh age slower than their counterparts. Sad that the story did nothing with that. Like maybe focusing on her aging and her kids staying youthful
It follows the Force Awakens formula of just forgetting the main character of the previous film existed.
@@Tareltonlives sadly a common trope with sequels to movies over a decade or 2 apart.
I remember being in 2nd grade reading the NIHM series and being fascinated. The first movie was amazing. This second one… wooo boy…just watch “Once Upon a Forest” instead
Yes! They should definitely watch "Once Upon a Forest"!!!
once upon a forest was excellent
Mrs. Frisby and The Rats of NIMH has a book series?
@@H3y_Im_Rob yes, Rats of NIMH is a trilogy
@@hpalpha7323 Sweet! What are the other two books called? I wanna see if I can find them.
I feel like a simple way to salvage this movie would have been to make Mrs. Brisby the protagonist again; Timmy gets in over his head bc the Rats gave him a Atlas Complex for no reason while Martin makes bad decisions out of jealousy that gets all of them caught by NIMH, leaving Mrs. Brisby to rescue them like Johnathan did in the first place. After she finishes chewing out the Rats for giving her sons issues, they get over their sexist bullshit and recognize her as a hero alongside her husband.
It’d also be funny if they pulled a “How To Train Your Dragon 2” and have Jonathan be revealed to have been alive but idk.
Or, have this be a family adventure with Mrs. Brisby and her kids. The rats are like "Timmy! You're the chosen one! We must train you, and only you" and Mrs. Brisby says "No, you will teach ALL of my children your rat knowledge.". She does her best to prevent Timmy from getting egotistical, and Timmy is less cocky than he would be without her. Martin is jealous, he turns evil, the rats say "Timmy! You must stop Martin by yourself!" Mrs. Brisby has none of that nonsense, and goes to save Martin herself, but Timmy does sneak after her, and her other kids follow him to stop him.
Timmy gets there first, somehow, so an epic fight can happen between Martin and his siblings. His siblings lose, and when all hope is lost, Mrs Brisby appears.
Martin attacks. Mrs Brisby dodges, desperately trying to appeal to Martin. Brief flashes of the old Martin are seen, but the brainwashing keeps regaining control.
Then, Mrs Brisby lunges. And wraps her son in a hug.
She cries, he cries, everyone cries.
Then she takes her kids back home and never lets the rats of NIMH near her kids again.
The end.
@@genericname2747
She cries, he cries, they cry...
I cry.
If the movie felt like the first, i probably would at the ending of that. If not for the emotional bits, for the relief at the end
I'd go even more insane by having the rats go all fascist ethnostate or something lol.
I mean, the whole race analogy is there, might as well make the movie ultra uncomfortable!
@@genericname2747and the rats do all this cos of a prophecy(which Nicodemus saw while he was supposedly still alive but it's only coming up now for some reason and it's only twice) they decide for themselves that that it has to be Timmy and trigger everything.(aside from a couple things that back later, they didn't teach him squat)I'd change the wording so it's instead: 'One of Jonathan Brisbys own...' so it's left ambiguous and nothing is set in stone.(his own...children? His wife? Friends? Enemies?) Could be anybody.
"You can read?! But... You're a woman!!" really got me.
No way you could get away with that nowadays. And couldn't most rodents not read in the previous movie? Miss Brisby remarked she could only read a little.
@@beauwalker9820you could make that joke now if you do it right lol
Fun fact, the VA for Jenny would also go on to voice Princess Bubblegum!
I... honnestly hate saying anything in this movie's deffense, but the reason that Just and Mr Ages haven't aged is because the experiment that heightened inteligence also slowed the aging process. Which doesn't explain why Niccodemus was a billion years old, but whatever.
magic aged him. in the book Nicodemus was middle aged and had an eye patch
The craziest thing about this movie? There was a sequel to the Secret of NIMH novel but apparently this movie has nothing to do with the book ever. They just straight up decide that they should make a very kid friendly movie entirely from scratch and especially without Don Bluth's involvement. Man.
Secret of NIMH was adapted from the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH. The daughter of the author did two follow books Rasco and the Rats of NIMH, R-T, Margaret and the Rats of NIMH. all three can be gotten from bookstores
Yes! I had the Rasco book for many years, not sure what happened to it but I do remember the story and its very different from this. @@toomanyaccounts
I have to defend their decision to age Mrs. Brisby. In both the first movie and the book it's based on, the experiments prolong the rats' and mouses' lifespan. Brisby has not been altered and therefore will age like a normal mouse.
Still can't believe they got Eric Idol to voice Timmy's brother. What a completely out-of-left-field move.
He's the only good part of this movie- it's insane and stupid but at least it's not boring like the rest.
He made the film almost worth watching! He made me laugh at least!
Martin in the first half of the movie: “Hey Bro.”
Martin in the second half of the movie: *BRITISH OUT OF NOWHERE*
@@catgirl4198 it's cuz he's evil now, and a British accent means a character is rich, smart, or evil (or any combo of the three)
@@Account_Not_Applicable That seems pretty shallow, don’t you think?
The sad thing is that there are NIMH stories they could’ve made movies of, but instead we got this.
They do explain why the rats don't age in the first movie, its because of the nimh experiments.
I like when Timmy says, "IT'S NIMHING TIME" and NIMHs all over the bad guys. Or does he say, "IT'S TIMMING TIME"? Yeah, that's catchier.
Martin's villain song is the only thing worth remembering about this movie.
It's great.
Then again villain songs are usually the best.
Fun fact! Capybara are literally just giant guinea pigs. :)
This film feels weirdly misogynistic. Mrs Brisby is just relegated to widow and mother of the messiah Timmy, and with all her struggles and duty from the first film completely ignored. Not even getting a statue! Then, Jenny who actually has an interesting back story whose trying to save her family plays second fiddle to whiney, off-key warbler dumbo Timmy! I feel so sorry for Jenny she deserved to be in a better film - I liked her character, and she's voice by Teen Titans Starfire too!
The original book also has "sprinkles" of misogyny in it.
Which is WEIRD given who the protagonist is.
Mrs. Brisby (whose name, in a funny fyi, was changed from novel's Mrs. Frisby to avoid copyright infridgement with the company "Frisbee") not only wasn't recognized, she didn't even get to go see her son awarded with the key to the city or to help her son get settled. In reading the summary of one of the novel's sequel's it provides some info around this: as Timothy inherited his father's extremely high intelligent & lifespan, he moved to Thorn Valley in order to receive the same accelerated education as the rat children. There was no award ceremony mentioned.
This film sequel was much worse than the original, which was a classic film! There were already 2 sequels to the novel,so why didn't they buy the rights to them instead of this weird story? 1 sequel, "Racso & The Rats of NIHM" has Timothy, as a side/co main character, meeting Racso, a city rat, as they both were relocating to Thorn Valley. Racso is Jenner's (who was the rat trying to keep the rats of NIHM from leaving in the 1st film, but had left with some separatists prior to Mrs. Frisby meeting the rats of NIHM in the 1st novel) son & while both are integrating to Thorn Valley (Rasco to country living & Timothy to his education), the rats discover humans are planning to build a dam nearby, which will flood the valley & rat colony. The rats (& Timothy) create a plan to sabotage the project & reprogram the developers' computers.
Sure, there is no love interest in the novel's sequel, though they absolutely could have changed Rasco to a female character if they absolutely NEEDED to try to reproduce An American Tail's "Somewhere out there" male/female duet like they did during the scene they were caged. Not one of Lee Holdridge's (the music producer for the film sequel) best ideas.
I remember watching this as a kid, Hell I still have it on DVD. But as an adult I can understand why a lot of people thought this unnecesary sequel was cheesy (No pathetic pun intended.) But if I'm being honest for me the only two things that made this movie worth watching was the songs and the voice acting.
You want the whole spectrum of rodents, you watch Redwall
You guys should watch "Once Upon a Forest" next!!! It's a lot like "the Secret of NIMH," but also entirely different. lol
I showed this movie to my father(which this was one of his childhood favorites aside from An American Tail), the whole time I watch the light drain from his eyes.
this movie indeed sucks but in the first movie they _did_ cover why Mrs. Brisby aged while the others didn't was because of the experiments they endured in NIMH; along with their enhanced intelligence, they were also made to age less slowly. it's been a while, but iirc they said that's why Johnathan never told Mrs. Brisby about NIMH.
If you want a cartoon with various rodents interacting, there's the Redwall cartoon. It'd also make for a pretty good video.
Whoa, WHAT?? There actually was a “Secret of Nimh 2”?? I always thought “Once Upon a Forest” was an unofficial sequel…
*Edit* it also has just come to my attention that “Once Upon a Forest” wasn’t even a Don Bluth film.
Yeah I remember watching the sequel when I was a little kid
If I’m remembering correctly… Mrs. Brisby started growing old due to the knowledge of Nimh given to her by Nicodemus before he gave her the stone. It’s knowledge of the horror that would age those that did not go through the tests Nimh preformed on the rodents apparently. In other words if Johnathan had told her about Nimh she would grow old while he remained young if he hadn’t been killed.
she would have grown old anyway. johnathan just didn't want his wife to be alarmed
I suppose, the voice actor for Nicodemus made the line sound confusing anyways. This is why we should stick to the books for all the story beats.@@toomanyaccounts
Their lifespans were extended by the experiments done on them.
The timing for 31:40 is killing me!
Perfection.
The sad thing is it could have worked or at least a bit better is if they make it be that they asked all the kids if they want to be trained to be heros and only the two brothers say yes, then have it be the girl character shows up when there young and build there relationship, and also make it be the one brother that's the villian later in the movie have it be when the girl show up he leaves against ther teachers wishes because they are not ready yet but he wants to help those in trouble or even have it they both try to leave but only the one brother is stoped from going
I never actually saw this one, but I *did* see a review by the Nostalgia Critic. He did a great job.
Capybaras we’re briefly labeled fish by the church way back because so they could eat them during those times they’re not allowed meat but only fish (I dunno what it’s called sorry) so it was their work around for it, they justified it by pointing out how much time they spend in the water
EDIT: oh no wait you're right about that part, sorry. I remembered beavers were similarily eaten for that reason and jumped ahead on it. Sorry.
That was beavers, and they would eat the tail because they believed that beavers were part mammal, part fish, with the tail part being fish cuz it was scaly, so they could eat that on meatless Fridays during Lent
i love your furry versions, theyre so cute
A bespectacled sabercat, and an animesque coyote girl. They are cool, and cute.
Almost makes me want a cuter avatar lol. No... Must not go furry... lol
i love this series because it sounds like jim and pam from the office are watching animated films they love to hate
"...yeah, it doesn't matter about genetics or legacy, but more of merits... but this is a baby film from the 1990s, I don't know wtf I'm talking about."
Hey, filmmakers are STILL making this mistake. Look at the Star Wars sequels.
It's funny- Star Wars 1-6 deconstructed the whole idea of the Chosen One with Anakin going evil and Luke saving the day was being merciful rather than being powerful. And then they just played it straight.
Rian Johnson tried to fix that but people got mad about it
He tried to fix a lot of things, most of that didn't work, but he tried @@Pablo360able
Credit where it's due, Hynden Walch is performing her _ass_ off in this.
Speaking of Fivel Goes West, will you do a retrospective on An American Tail the same way you did Balto?
Your "fursona" is actually super cute
The farts never gets old 😂
As awful as this movie is, hearing Eric Idle go absolutely insane and just start singing this hilariously stupid villain song is so dumb that I can't help but laugh at it.
Adult Martin after he gets "fixed" from being Eric Idle was the VA of Fievel. You can not tell because by this point he's an adult therefore no longer sounding like a kid.
They actually mention in the first movie that the rats and mice of Nimh's age process went slower than normal because of the experiments they went through. Along with Nicodemus telling her, "you would've grown old while he remained young" when he gave her the stone. Sequel's still hot garbo nonetheless.
Love your movie night streams, Saberspark!
I’m not so sure if anyone brought this up yet; but in the first film, Nicodemus brought up the fact that not only the serum made them intelligent, but had altered the age process to where they age slowly like humans. Therefore to Brisby, she would grow old, while everyone else remained young (hence probably the reason why she looks old in the second film). With that being said, It also makes me wonder if her children have been given those genetics by their father Jonathan 🤔
Fun fact: There were multiple NIMH books, and this story was probably in there loosely somewhere!
The best thing about this movie is that it reminds us how amazing the first movie really was.
"Fuck your son, Mrs. Bri-"
NO! Do NOT speak that into existence! Don't give the r34 artists ideas!
Probably exists, but I don't feel like looking.
Of all the movies they've done, this is the one they had to blur. Just wow.
1:28 As someone who is named Jonathan, I can confirm that we aren’t even on speaking terms
Movie 1: "Your husband was a good man Mrs Brisby but you are a true hero"
Movie 2: "JONATHAN BRISBY IS THE MESIAH AND HIS SON IS THE SECOND COMING!!"
Mrs Brisby: but....
"SHUT UP WOMAN!"
Of all the I'll conceive sequels, this one falls on the "Damnatio Memoriae" category. We never speak about it.
Didn’t they like say in the first movie the experiment the performed on Jonathan and the other not only made them smarter but age slower as well
I wish I could have seen this live, i’m not getting notifications and I have them turned on..
they dont stream on youtube unfortunately, i think its twitch
I can't believe I saw this as a kid.
MOUSESOGENY
I honestly never knew that there was a sequel so to see this was a shock to me💀
I actually used to watch this *all the time* as a kid. I thought it was a fun movie and I do still think that once they get to N.I.M.H. the story does actually have some merit. Obviously nowhere near as good as the original though but I didn't see that until I was like, 15
I know it's bad but this movie will always hold a special place in my heart cause I loved it as a kid (and tbh I think I had a crush on Tim? Idk). I loved the songs and the funny facial expressions and animation errors
"Blurred for copyright"
My 166p 824KB/s speed internet: "You're welcome, for everything else."
That’s so true about the difference between men and women as they age. Why can’t everyone just be valued as a person regardless of any other value society might see in them?
Jenny sounds familiar because she is voiced by Hynden Walch the voice for Starfire and Princess Bubblegum
Okay so embarrassing story uhhhhhhhh I was obsessed with this movie as a child and it was only in my TEENS i realized how eughhh it was ,. I realized I was in love with my initial idea of what it COULD have been . But yeah.. Its embarrassing to say this was the sparking force of my 8 YEAR LONG NIMH obsession/hyperfixation. OHHH my GODDD.
Though if I could brush up watching the original maaaaaaybe ,,, I could write a better version that matches the glorious idea i had of it before watching it, the image i had in my mind when I saw it in a blockbuster in 1999 (?)
who knows. Anyway great nostalgia trip Thx.
Not really that embarrassing, honestly. I know i spoke highly of a movie or tv show or something and when i sat down to watch it again with someone else, i realized i literally only remembered my headcanon. The actual story was okay, then got bad, and i had to deal with the fact that i seemed so excited about it but really didn't like it on rewatch. It was only good when i was overlaying my ideas to give meaning to their actions.
Now i can't even remember what it was, and it's only been a few years.
Not Jenny with Princess Bubblegum's VA surprised only saw one person on the stream mention it
Hope to see the full Let's Watch of this someday
My first and only exposure to this movie was the Nostalgia Critic review and I think that's for the best.
Secret of NIMH 2 is one of the most baffling, frustrating and unnecessary messes I've ever watched.
Hynden Walsh brought her A game to voice act in this when no one else would. Starfire just cant help but be a superhero, can she?
I remember this movie…I can’t remember how many times I watched it as a kid and I was bummed that I could never find the first one. It’s been a long, long time since I’ve seen either of them…the first one I watched more recently, but I can’t remember much from either of them except for the unforgettable, somewhat horrific majesty of the owl.
Honestly I thought it was really cool how talking to animators changed your approach to reviewing a little bit. So often I see animation review channels critique work in a way that pretty much ignores the realities of the industry, which fair enough, I don't expect them to fully understand it if they're not a part of it. But considering that while also reviewing media based on its own content makes for a much better review in my opinion.
I didn't know that there was a sequel of that animated movie I still didn't watch in my life.
It was exceptionally good that I didn't know about this not-so-well-known sequel not because this wasn't broadcasted in all countries, but because this is inferior compared to the animated movies Don Bluth made.
Awe yeah! The weak cash in that had a flimsy plot and had no involvement with Don Bluth. Such a classic dumpster fire that warms the cockles of thy heart.
[edit] Note: No offense on the animation nor the animators who worked on this film. It is wonderful work, but compared to the first movie it was really watered down and the studio skinflinting the budget. Just felt betrayed when I watched this blind thinking I'm getting Don B. adventure, but instead a Saturday morning cartoon special.
There's only one true Don Bluth sequel (for lack of better word), and that's Bartok the Magnificent. I mean, I like Fievel Goes West, but it's the exception.
I watched this movie as a kid and even hated it then
14:14
Saber, I think the term you were wanting to use is "snubbed". This would be a VERY different film if Mrs. Brisbey was "snuffed".
There's a sequel book to the original book
20:06
"I shoulda listened" would make a pretty good sound clip to accompany hilarious failure.
Jonathan Brisby was the husband and he got killed by the cat from the first film, Dragon.
Jason Alexander started off in a slasher film called The Burning.
"it auto played" as he has his finger on the button.
The sequel was supposed to be based on the sequel book followed up by the Secret of NIMH.
Quick note for ya; the serum that the rats, Johnathan, and Mr. Ages were injected with greatly slows the aging process. Since all of Johnathan brisby's offspring also are affected by the serum, they slowly ages as well 🧐
Speaking of Fieval Goes West, you guys should do the other two "An American Tail" sequels, "The Treasure Under Manhattan and "The Mystery of the Night Monster"
Secret of Nimh, escape 2 Africa
That movie sucks because it’s disrespectful to the source material even from the original classic back in the 80s. Why bother making a sequel to harm us fans alike? Damn.
That dog howl sounds like it was ripped directly from the Wolfos in Ocarina of Time xD
The capybara is the world's largest rodent
Oh god the day has come, finally
OOooo the reason Justin and Mr Ages haven't aged is because the injections slowed the aging process (Explained via Nicodemus in the OG film).
"I want to see if I can guess . . ."
The plot? Oh, you'll never, it's so bananas.
"The voice actor."
Oh. Yeah, you might have a chance at that.
I remember Nickelodeon did movie nights, this was one of them.
I can't wait until you guys get to Once Upon a Forest. These have all been gold and I'm just waiting for more.
Jesus fucking Christ is Saber ever sober? 😂
I was legit just thinking about this sequel the other day and how much of a disgrace it is compared to the first movie. The Secret of NIMH didn't deserve to be done dirty like this.
Why did this movie age up Mrs. Brisby and her two daughters? I would have thought that they would look like this when Timmy gets reunited with them as an adult, not as a much older mouse kid. Timmy and Martin just look a little bit older than their first movie self.
I didn’t know they made a second one
I always thought this movie was amazing. Younger weaker brother the one with all the expectations and the chosen one stuff while the older brother slowly becomes resentful of that before becoming separated and becoming a villain.
Earning a scientists (essentially a very powerful figure in this) trust only to betray them and turn them and their colleagues into mindless pets.
Trying to corrupt the chosen brother to join him and yeah. Lol.
But then i rewatch it and realize that i very much forgot about 99% of this movie and made it better in my mind.
The Necret of SIMH
ngl, from the thunbnail I thought someone made an animated film from the web-comic Jack and was about to lose all hope.
The premise of them leaving their old community to not like devolve.