Great design and idea! It never cease to amaze me that people actually think they can 3d print accurate parts out of plastic! Make those pieces out of aluminum at the least and even better hardened and ground tool steel.
Whilst version 2 was a clear improvement over version 1, I definitely am interested in seeing you make a new one out of metal. Looks like a very useful addition to your lathe. 👏👏👍😀
Yes, please make a metal attachment. I don't think 3-D printing is the way to go with this kind of rigid precision parts, and I still see some irregularity in the spaces. The basic idea however is in my opinion very good. With precisely manufactured parts, preferably made of steel, this can be a very useful addition to the lathe.
One specific recomendation for the 3D prints. I'd suggest you take a look at modifier meshes. Even the default ones in Prusa slicer would be greatly helpfull in your case. For example add a modifier near the holes and make the infill 100% around those holes or adding extra perimeters around the holes. this could really help you with having rigidity where needed and saving material where you dont need it.
I think that's a really great debugging session!! I think of course metal would last 'longer' but equally, I don't think it would be too hard to modify the 3d printed parts to put metal bushing into the holes. I think with bushing the main cause of wear will have been removed, but over time with some of the side to side forces you would see the plastic eventually deform and creep, but thats on a timescale of years.... so hardly a concern. Love the work soo far!
Good Prototype Jonesy so now you have proven the design make it more robust in a good metal. NOT Aluminium too soft for the precision you will want.Well done mate
I know this is a year on. But, if you can perfect this, you could save allot of home shop owners allot of money. Or, even, give them access to something they simply can't afford, otherwise. Thanks for everything, Uncle Jonesey. :)
Thanks, I have another video in the pipeline where I'm going to redesign and re-make this in metal, I think that's going to solve the last of the issues. Thanks for watching!
@@joneseymakes Do all of your setups as rigidly as possible (in other words, no teaming of holes while holding the part in your hands on top of the vice). Use the hole-pattern function of your DRO to drill AND ream the holes, so that you don’t introduce unwanted error. Also, look into picking up a tapered reamer to use on the holes in the backplate. Then just make sure that you machine the matching taper onto the pin. This will further reduce any error by more accurately centering the holes in relation to each other.
Thanks for sharing the final endcome too. I am planning to copy this to my tiny Proxxon PD250/e. I am probably going yo use brass inserts for indexing holes.
Aluminum plates would be much more stable than the 3D printed plates, just the nature of the material. The 3D printed plates can still be of some sort of use, perhaps in woodworking where the dimensions aren’t nearly as critical, I can think of a few jewelry craft tools that are made of wood that require line divisions and these 3D printed plates would make the process much easier. Just a thought.
Defo metal for accuracy & longevity of those parts. Also eager to see the dovetail part that you’ll use for scoring/splines/keyways etc. new sub from me for sure! Greg
Excellent tool. The design is probably the best I've seen, but I am very eager to see the newer version with metal plates instead of the 3D printed ones. I will definitely be making this for my lathe, but I'm holding off until you have the updated version. Great videos and explanations. Thank you so much for sharing. When will you be doing the updated build?
@joneseymakes Yes, absolutely. I would buy it. As long as the graduation issue is resolved with the metal plates, I think it's a great idea. A kit with plans and material to machine the parts, or even just the prints so that people can source their own parts...I think either. Thank you again for sharing. Great content!
Try turning and pressing in brass bushings. You'll get stronger, tighter tolerance, and more wear resistant holes with the same 3d printed part. A nice compromise between production speed and functionality.
yep metal for sure. great job improving the printed one tho. The !0 and 5 degree scribes lined up well on the full circumference but the 1 degree is a wee bit off sometimes. I still think aluminium or steel plates will make the acuracy better being rigid. Looking foward to seeing it
You can't polish a plastic turd... But you CAN print it with more infill! Really cool videos, it is interesting seeing you turn what was essentially an unusable concept into something functional. A suggestion; if you stick with 3d printed plastic for the next iteration you could increase the diameter, ie the radius of the pin from the chuck centre. That will increase the rigidity at the cutting radius and reduce the angular error caused by pin and hole issues.
If you put another circumference of holes, like 20 inside the 36 (at a small radius and match those holes for divisions of 10, less then a degree), you could do divisions where feed screws are 1/5 or 1/10 leads per turn, like milling and lathe, this will enable 100 or 200 divisions in the circle. For the odd lathe I have where 8 comes out, then an another inner circle of holes at 25 divisions, so 125 or 250 divisions can be done (this would be between the 36 and 20 hole circle). Nice project, and good video production. Thanks.
You might recall from my comment to your last video, I kinda mention your reaming of the holes... ;-) Anyways, great improvement, and I would love to see it in metal!
Metal is ideal, but Perspex is a close second if you have access to a laser cutter. It's also pretty ridged. Over a certain thickness, it will crack before it bends. You might find ways of exploiting its transparency to simplify your design.
Good thinking Bob, I hadn't considered Perspex. I don't have a laser cutter unfortunately so it's going to be about the same effort to make them in metal
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it yet , but my suggestion will be to countersink the holes 2mm or so and add matching boss to the pin- I believe you’ll improve the play in the pin and minimize error due wearing of the plastic. And carbon filled PLA will be more rigid and wear resistant too . As I’m just shed professional with YT degree, i can be wrong for both…😁
I'm not OCD or anything, but, there was enough inconsistency between the degree lines that I'd have thrown it in the bin. However, it may be that only the vernier part needs to be made in metal to higher precision. I'll be watching to see where your experiments take you.
On the red or the black part some where in there is a hole that is not in the proper place, I see a pattern every so many lines it goes off I think it might be in the red plate...
It's a shame the holes have to be so close together or you could probably solve the issue with a metal bushing glued into each hole. of course that would also require the holes to be larger. could you increase the diameter enough to allow for larger holes and more space between them?
Hey Mr. Jonesey - loving the content as usual. Quick question - how is the new lathe? Any comments or suggestions? I'm eyeballing a similar model to your's and just wanted to see if you've had any input regarding it. Cheers!
@@joneseymakes I have indeed! And a brilliant review it was. Just wondered if you’ve had any things come up in the time you’ve had it, things you wish it had etc.
@@EngineerRaisedInKingston No I'm pretty happy with it. Small niggles, like the lead screw covers get in the way etc but I spoke about that in in video. One thing though - you still have to change the change wheels when switching between threading and feed gears. That's annoying. Would be better if there was a lever instead.
Amazing vids! gotta say tho, maybe its nicer if you make ur voice louder than the machine volume? In my opinion thats nicer. Anyhow do with that what u want 😁
Hi Parviz, I'll be making metal plates at some point soon. Have you seen the first video? That explains how the index plates work. If once you've watched that it's still not clear message me and I will exaplain.
You did the different length one degree lines so where they show the difference is where you want to put the “zero”, right? It was for a purpose. Wink, wink, nod, nod.
I’m not 3D printer savvy so excuse my ignorance… but is it possible to have the markings for the hole graduations on the outside of the indexer instead of the face of the indexer?
Hi Stefan, thanks for watching. You have to subscribe to my Patreon at the middle tier in order to be able to download the files. Another option if you didn't want to do that is to purchase them from my website at joneseymakes.com
metal please, preferably steel as itwould be much more rigid, we are talking +-0.02mm for being 1/10t degree accurate which is weirdly enough often visible to the eye on scales like this.
2:30 a reamer only creates a better surface finish and a better diameter accuracy you cannot make a hole straiter with a reamer or porsition accuracy they don't work this way i would suggest you get a plate made with a cnc somhow, pls pcb might have your solution
I appreciate the video, but I am not sure why you did not start with metal plates. You probably could have made them faster than your 3D printer printed those parts in the video and they would have been much more accurate.
OK...as a mini-lathe owner (see: Sherline) I have a great interest in what you are doing. However, I have to call "foul" on using your printer. I wouldn't mind if you had to cut this up into two or three video parts if I could be treated to watching you do All of the work on your lathe. For us DIY-ers, watching someone bounce back forth among a lathe AND a mill AND a printer sorts negates the point of watching your video cuz we don't have all of your toys. Help?
Yeah sorry man, I will be making a follow up video soon where I’ll re- make the whole thing in metal. I’ll try and cater for those without a mill too. Thanks for watching though.
Seriously? You 3D printed the thing and then expected it to work with any accuracy? LOL..... BAH HA HA HA HA!!!! I have a bridge for sale. I'll give a great deal. Sigh.... [Shaking my head in absolute amazement.]
Great design and idea! It never cease to amaze me that people actually think they can 3d print accurate parts out of plastic! Make those pieces out of aluminum at the least and even better hardened and ground tool steel.
Thanks. This was more of a prototype to prove the design really. I will be making this from metal in a future video.
I think metal parts will be more accurate and better rigidity.👍👍
Yep agree. I’ll get around to that soon.
Whilst version 2 was a clear improvement over version 1, I definitely am interested in seeing you make a new one out of metal. Looks like a very useful addition to your lathe. 👏👏👍😀
That's the plan! Thanks for watching.
Would love to see you make a metal one! Well done!
Coming soon! Thanks
Yes please, not all of us have printers
Yes, please make a metal attachment. I don't think 3-D printing is the way to go with this kind of rigid precision parts, and I still see some irregularity in the spaces.
The basic idea however is in my opinion very good. With precisely manufactured parts, preferably made of steel, this can be a very useful addition to the lathe.
Thanks Michel, I plan to make the metal parts soon.
One specific recomendation for the 3D prints. I'd suggest you take a look at modifier meshes. Even the default ones in Prusa slicer would be greatly helpfull in your case. For example add a modifier near the holes and make the infill 100% around those holes or adding extra perimeters around the holes. this could really help you with having rigidity where needed and saving material where you dont need it.
Great suggestion Berk, I hadn't considered that. Thanks for the tip.
I love it when the engineering big guns are brought out.
I think that's a really great debugging session!!
I think of course metal would last 'longer' but equally, I don't think it would be too hard to modify the 3d printed parts to put metal bushing into the holes. I think with bushing the main cause of wear will have been removed, but over time with some of the side to side forces you would see the plastic eventually deform and creep, but thats on a timescale of years.... so hardly a concern.
Love the work soo far!
Thanks! Good idea on the bushings.
Fantastic job there, mate.
Thanks a bunch for sharing.
Thanks, much appreciated!
Nicely done. Good job on figuring out the accuracy issues.
Thanks!
Good Prototype Jonesy so now you have proven the design make it more robust in a good metal. NOT Aluminium too soft for the precision you will want.Well done mate
Thanks Colin, will do!
Another fantastic video! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks.
I know this is a year on. But, if you can perfect this, you could save allot of home shop owners allot of money. Or, even, give them access to something they simply can't afford, otherwise.
Thanks for everything, Uncle Jonesey. :)
Thanks, I have another video in the pipeline where I'm going to redesign and re-make this in metal, I think that's going to solve the last of the issues. Thanks for watching!
@@joneseymakes
Do all of your setups as rigidly as possible (in other words, no teaming of holes while holding the part in your hands on top of the vice). Use the hole-pattern function of your DRO to drill AND ream the holes, so that you don’t introduce unwanted error. Also, look into picking up a tapered reamer to use on the holes in the backplate. Then just make sure that you machine the matching taper onto the pin. This will further reduce any error by more accurately centering the holes in relation to each other.
Hi, I agree with the idea of making the plates out of metal. Plastic is fine for prototyping but not for the long run. Cheers.
Thanks Peter, there will be a follow up video soon.
Great stuff
Thanks for sharing the final endcome too.
I am planning to copy this to my tiny Proxxon PD250/e. I am probably going yo use brass inserts for indexing holes.
Sounds like a good Plan!
Nice save!
Thanks!
That's a killer result.
Thanks!
If you’re worried about creep of the prints it might help to put a slit and clamping bolt in each to hold tight to the aluminum part.
Good suggestion, thanks.
Well done!
Thanks, much appreciated.
your videos are great bud
Thanks Karl!
I bet making some metal inserts for the holes in the plates would help with longevity of the part.
Good idea, thanks.
Aluminum plates would be much more stable than the 3D printed plates, just the nature of the material. The 3D printed plates can still be of some sort of use, perhaps in woodworking where the dimensions aren’t nearly as critical, I can think of a few jewelry craft tools that are made of wood that require line divisions and these 3D printed plates would make the process much easier. Just a thought.
Thanks, good idea.
YES.... we would love to see this made in metal. THANKS!
Thanks Chris!
Defo metal for accuracy & longevity of those parts. Also eager to see the dovetail part that you’ll use for scoring/splines/keyways etc.
new sub from me for sure!
Greg
Thanks Greg
Excellent tool. The design is probably the best I've seen, but I am very eager to see the newer version with metal plates instead of the 3D printed ones. I will definitely be making this for my lathe, but I'm holding off until you have the updated version. Great videos and explanations. Thank you so much for sharing. When will you be doing the updated build?
Thanks, much appreciated. I will be doing the metal version with the next two months.
I might offer a kit version with materials and printed plans. Do you think people would be interested in that?
@joneseymakes Awesome! Really looking forward to it.
@joneseymakes Yes, absolutely. I would buy it. As long as the graduation issue is resolved with the metal plates, I think it's a great idea. A kit with plans and material to machine the parts, or even just the prints so that people can source their own parts...I think either. Thank you again for sharing. Great content!
Try turning and pressing in brass bushings. You'll get stronger, tighter tolerance, and more wear resistant holes with the same 3d printed part. A nice compromise between production speed and functionality.
Yes, I like that idea
came here to say this!
Brilliant
Thanks Mike
very cool
Thanks!
yep metal for sure. great job improving the printed one tho. The !0 and 5 degree scribes lined up well on the full circumference but the 1 degree is a wee bit off sometimes. I still think aluminium or steel plates will make the acuracy better being rigid. Looking foward to seeing it
Yep. I’ll get to making a metal one soon.
You can't polish a plastic turd...
But you CAN print it with more infill!
Really cool videos, it is interesting seeing you turn what was essentially an unusable concept into something functional.
A suggestion; if you stick with 3d printed plastic for the next iteration you could increase the diameter, ie the radius of the pin from the chuck centre. That will increase the rigidity at the cutting radius and reduce the angular error caused by pin and hole issues.
Goo tip, thanks for that. I think for the next iteration I'll go with metal plates now that I've proved out the concept.
Yes, build with metal plates.
Hi Jonesy! Great video. Yes.... let's see them in metal (maybe stainless...?). Greetings from Southport.👍
Thanks Kevin! Will do, stay tuned.
If you put another circumference of holes, like 20 inside the 36 (at a small radius and match those holes for divisions of 10, less then a degree), you could do divisions where feed screws are 1/5 or 1/10 leads per turn, like milling and lathe, this will enable 100 or 200 divisions in the circle. For the odd lathe I have where 8 comes out, then an another inner circle of holes at 25 divisions, so 125 or 250 divisions can be done (this would be between the 36 and 20 hole circle).
Nice project, and good video production. Thanks.
Thanks, good idea. I think I might incorporate this in to the next version
You might recall from my comment to your last video, I kinda mention your reaming of the holes... ;-) Anyways, great improvement, and I would love to see it in metal!
I remember! I'll be making them in metal so stay tuned.
Metal is ideal, but Perspex is a close second if you have access to a laser cutter. It's also pretty ridged. Over a certain thickness, it will crack before it bends. You might find ways of exploiting its transparency to simplify your design.
Good thinking Bob, I hadn't considered Perspex. I don't have a laser cutter unfortunately so it's going to be about the same effort to make them in metal
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it yet , but my suggestion will be to countersink the holes 2mm or so and add matching boss to the pin- I believe you’ll improve the play in the pin and minimize error due wearing of the plastic. And carbon filled PLA will be more rigid and wear resistant too . As I’m just shed professional with YT degree, i can be wrong for both…😁
Sounds like a good plan, thanks for the tips!
Hi! I do wish to see a metal verssion of that index plate! I could be using steel.. Thank you for very interesting videos, more PLEASE! 🤗👍
Thanks, metal version coming soon!
I'm not OCD or anything, but, there was enough inconsistency between the degree lines that I'd have thrown it in the bin. However, it may be that only the vernier part needs to be made in metal to higher precision. I'll be watching to see where your experiments take you.
Thanks for the comment Jim, yes it's still not perfect. I'm hoping that it will be once I make the parts in metal.
I am waiting to see the metal version.
Coming soon
Nice work. I'm going to see how I can add indexing to my 1945 Clausing.
Good luck! Does it have a hollow spindle bore?
@@joneseymakes It does however it lacks a handy spot for the mount that holds the inner subdivision plate. Likely can be sorted :)
@@DavidR8 Let me know how it goes.
When you were hand reaming, you twisted the reamer backwards making it hard to actually cut accurately as well.
Good spot, I hadn't realised I'd done that.
On the red or the black part some where in there is a hole that is not in the proper place, I see a pattern every so many lines it goes off I think it might be in the red plate...
Thanks, I'll check it.
👍👍😎👍👍
It's a shame the holes have to be so close together or you could probably solve the issue with a metal bushing glued into each hole. of course that would also require the holes to be larger. could you increase the diameter enough to allow for larger holes and more space between them?
I don’t see why not. Depends on how much clearance you have on the back of your lathe I guess
if you remake it, use a taper pin and taper reamer. then it will be impossible for it to not align properly on the hole
Good tip, thanks!
@@joneseymakes have you thought about using a hirth coupling between the plates. That might be an interesting idea.
@@EitriBrokkr Yes indeed, not considered that. I'll have to work out how to make one first!!!
@@joneseymakes the beauty of a hirth coupling is as it wears it just locks more and more accurately and more solid
Hey Mr. Jonesey - loving the content as usual. Quick question - how is the new lathe? Any comments or suggestions? I'm eyeballing a similar model to your's and just wanted to see if you've had any input regarding it.
Cheers!
Hi Erik, yes I like it. I made a review video where I spoke in depth about it. Have you seen that? czcams.com/video/YvJ-juk8dNc/video.html
@@joneseymakes I have indeed! And a brilliant review it was. Just wondered if you’ve had any things come up in the time you’ve had it, things you wish it had etc.
@@EngineerRaisedInKingston No I'm pretty happy with it. Small niggles, like the lead screw covers get in the way etc but I spoke about that in in video. One thing though - you still have to change the change wheels when switching between threading and feed gears. That's annoying. Would be better if there was a lever instead.
Amazing vids! gotta say tho, maybe its nicer if you make ur voice louder than the machine volume? In my opinion thats nicer. Anyhow do with that what u want 😁
Thanks! I’ve been struggling with the audio since I started. Working on it though and hoping it’ll improve over the next few videos!
Thanks for the feedback by the way
Hi intresting idea i think metal part useful than 3 d print ..in addition please explain how to change degree dial
Thanks a lot
Hi Parviz, I'll be making metal plates at some point soon. Have you seen the first video? That explains how the index plates work. If once you've watched that it's still not clear message me and I will exaplain.
@@joneseymakes hi i saw your first video ,realy i can not understand ) i am new this sector) i waiting second video with metal parts
How long before you add a servo to drive the spindle, z and x axes ? 😜
Ha! It’ll be a while before I do that :-)
You did the different length one degree lines so where they show the difference is where you want to put the “zero”, right? It was for a purpose. Wink, wink, nod, nod.
Ha! Exactly!
I’m not 3D printer savvy so excuse my ignorance…
but is it possible to have the markings for the hole
graduations on the outside of the indexer instead
of the face of the indexer?
Hi Rod, yes that’s possible. Nice idea.
Sadly, I didn’t find the files on Patreon? Something went wrong somewhere?
Hi Stefan, thanks for watching. You have to subscribe to my Patreon at the middle tier in order to be able to download the files. Another option if you didn't want to do that is to purchase them from my website at joneseymakes.com
I would like to see one made from steel or aluminum..
I’ll be doing that shortly Terry.
metal please, preferably steel as itwould be much more rigid, we are talking +-0.02mm for being 1/10t degree accurate which is weirdly enough often visible to the eye on scales like this.
I will make one in metal, video coming soon!
2:30 a reamer only creates a better surface finish and a better diameter accuracy you cannot make a hole straiter with a reamer or porsition accuracy they don't work this way i would suggest you get a plate made with a cnc somhow, pls pcb might have your solution
Thanks for the suggestion
3D printed parts have their place, but not as components to a precision machine tool. They simply can't hold the requisite tolerances.
smol gap between 0 line & 1 line-it's my opinion.
Looking at it i think you're right. I'l try and improve on that with the next iteration
I appreciate the video, but I am not sure why you did not start with metal plates. You probably could have made them faster than your 3D printer printed those parts in the video and they would have been much more accurate.
Thanks Robert, I wanted to prove out the concept before making it in metal, I find it easier to work that way for these kind of projects.
OK...as a mini-lathe owner (see: Sherline) I have a great interest in what you are doing. However, I have to call "foul" on using your printer. I wouldn't mind if you had to cut this up into two or three video parts if I could be treated to watching you do All of the work on your lathe. For us DIY-ers, watching someone bounce back forth among a lathe AND a mill AND a printer sorts negates the point of watching your video cuz we don't have all of your toys. Help?
Yeah sorry man, I will be making a follow up video soon where I’ll re- make the whole thing in metal. I’ll try and cater for those without a mill too. Thanks for watching though.
Thanks so very much! Looking forward to that all-metal project!!
Seriously? You 3D printed the thing and then expected it to work with any accuracy? LOL..... BAH HA HA HA HA!!!! I have a bridge for sale. I'll give a great deal. Sigh.... [Shaking my head in absolute amazement.]
This was a prototype to prove the concept more than anything. I will re-make this in metal.