The thing I love about this episode is that it doesn't throw Pike under the bus in favor of Kirk. Each decision Pike makes throughout the episode and his overall more reserved approach has logical reasons behind it, the overall result just happens to be war with the Romulans. A lesser show would have just had Pike be incompetant and Kirk come in, be super awesome and know exactly what to do. But here the point wasn't that the situation needed a "better" captain, just a different captain.
Agreed, SNW Pike is the kind of captain a peaceful federation would want for exploration and diplomacy. TOS Kirk is the captain the federation needs for defense and protecting their interest from a hostile universe. They are different, but both seek to create peace in their own ways, diplomacy for Pike and deterrence for Kirk.
@@time391 On top of that, Starfleet needs both types of captains. The Soldiers to fight the war, and the diplomats to build the peace. Neither is more important. All have a role that only they can do in the Federation.
Well said, dude. I see Pike as a good captain, and the kind of diplomatic captain Federation should have in their fleet. Hell, his goal of trying to pursue peace with the Romulans was a worthwhile goal, and may have even been the preferred strategy for a different time. Sadly, it just was not the right strategy for what this situation called for. That doesn't make Pike a bad captain. Just makes him more human as a character. To paraphrase a Picard quote that comes to mind it's possible to make no mistakes, and still lose. That is not a weakness. That's life.
And I think this experience is what lead Pike to fight as hard as he did for Una. I think he now understands that while diplomacy is always a goal, one must always be prepared to fight. To quote Theodore Roosevelt: Speak softly and carry a big stick.
I can see how Spock and Pike on the last scene sets the stage of why Spock was willing to throw his entire career to transport Pike to Talos IV later on the timeline.
It really syncs up nicely. I loved that and the Pike/Kirk scene, particularly future Pike letting that happen. Was a nice moment for Pike to be reassured that his ship would be in good hands when he left.
@@ZJBorg it checks out. It was implied years ago in the prime timeline Pike was a fleet captain and he had major input who got promoted to starship captain and who got assigned to ships. Before this series it was kind of hazy how and when Kirk and Pike actually met. But from the dialogue on TOS episode of the Menagerie Kirk knew him.
Great scene in a great episode. My two favorite bits: when Older Pike realizes Kirk's about to come in and says "Oh yeah," remembering fondly what's about to happen, and then Pike's brilliant, funny-in-context line of "Just talking to myself."
Sometimes they cane be heavy handed in the writing or the acting, (See Captain Pike dropping pirate lines) but all in all it is hard not to like these characters.
@@j3pelfrey I thought the pirate line was Pike showing his playful boy scout nature. He clearly feels compelled to save as many lives as he can and avoid conflict wherever possible. He offered to cook for his captors. He is always searching for a human connection, an emotional avenue towards friendship with almost everyone. I agree that "Quality of Mercy" really hits all the touchpoints of excellence. It pays due homage to "Balance of Terror" while charting its own course regarding Pike's arc of trying to avoid not only his demise but the loss of lives of future Star Fleet officers. It was also a brilliantly thoughtful examination of the different command styles and philosophies between Pike and Kirk. Pike is a man driven to avoid conflict whenever and wherever possible. Kirk accepts that sometimes it's necessary to give your opponent a bloody nose to ward off future full blown fights. It's torn right from Neville Chamberlin's peace in our time approach which proved disastrous.
The way I read it, Pike knows that people in his profession put themselves into dangerous situations all the time in the line of duty. The accident which leaves him crippled does not even happen in battle but a machinery failure during peacetime. I think the way he is coming to accept it is that unlike every other officer in Starfleet he knows how much time he has with the people he cares about, I also get the feeling he suspects that Kirk may be the guy who replaces him, so he knows he would be leaving the Enterprise in good hands.
@@darthroden of sorts. I still sort of hope he still has a decent relationship up until the moment. I'm sorta rooting for the Pike/Batel thing to work...
TNG never showed any flashbacks with actual "Monster Maroons" (aka the Wrath of Khan to Generations Starfleet uniforms). Episodes like "Tapestry" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave viewers the follow-up version that came between the Monster Maroons and the one-piece jumpsuits of TNG S1. Ones without the turtleneck under-tunics. I do agree that the lack of undershirts or at least collarless ones made the middle period uniforms look strange and unprofessional. EDIT: "Cause and Effect" showed the Monster Maroons. I wish to revise my statement.
"Now, your father was captain of a Starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's and yours, I dare you to do better." - Kelvin Timeline Pike
@@dimitries The new movies follow a new timeline that was created when Nero went back in time and destroyed the USS Kelvin, which also led to the death of Kirk's father, Kirk having a difficult upbringing and then dared into joining starfleet by Captain Pike. To distinguish both timelines, the original one is usually called "prime timeline", the other "Kelvin timeline", "Kelvinverse", "Abramsverse" or "JJVerse". In the prime timeline, (where all shows and the older movies take place) this never happened. The Kelvin wasn't destroyed, therefor Kirk's father remained alive, Starfleet became less militaristic, Kirk wasn't promoted from Cadet to Captain in a single day and he met Pike only much later. That being said, the Kelvinverse is still canon. It was referenced in Star Trek Discovery as "an alternate reality created by the incursion of a romulan mining ship" and the supernova Nero mentions (that destroyed Romulus) is a huge plot point of the first season in Star Trek Picard.
My favorite Kirk line ever is: "No. I'm from Iowa. I work in outer space." It grounds the viewer and reminds them that these characters are part of a real place.
I like the small chuckle and "oh, yeah" from Adm. Pike when Kirk comes. Something about that feels very reminiscent, like a fond remembrance, whether of a simpler time or the start of a new friendship.
Way better than Discovery that's for sure. If this Trek Universe follows the course that leads to or gets very close to the Prime Trek timeline we all know and love, then the Discovery universe can just fade out of existence where it belongs.
@@heatsinker_5517 Discovery has an episode where a Time soldier hops over to the prime universe from the Kelvin universe. If it were already in the Kelvin universe then the dude wouldn't be in that episode. The creators have indicated it was part of the prime timeline back in 2017 so I don't know where this continued misinformation comes from with people like you. Makes me think you don't actually watch the show or read about what's going on with it. If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you're only saying it's not part of the prime timeline because you don't like it, which is not a very logical argument at all, so correct me if that is presumptuous.
It's interesting to see a more subdued version of Kirk. It's easy to forget that Shatner's portrayal of him was meant to be well into his career. He's gained confidence, he's gotten used to being looked up to, and he's in the prime of his career. Paul Wesley's Kirk is a younger, less sure of himself Kirk. He hasn't developed that swagger yet because he doesn't have the experience it takes to be that comfortable in the captain's chair. I hope we continue to see this version of Kirk slowly evolve into the self-assured, larger-than-life character he would become.
@@sw-gs For what it's worth, sometimes it's just a small difference to change someone's character - especially in Trek. Picard is a perfect example (ie Tapestry)
Kirk is shaped by his crew just as much as he shapes them. It's a Kirk without Spock or the rest of the Enterprise crew, not just a Kirk without Enterprise.
Shatner's portrayal was much more nuanced than most folks give him credit for; Kirk was always "subdued" in more private or small-scale settings, and would perform more in larger groups and command settings. For me, this episode's take on Kirk was pretty much perfect, and I'm looking forward to seeing more in Season Two.
I wonder if these events are what inspires Pike, when offered a promotion to Fleet Captain, to recommend Kirk as his successor as captain of the Enterprise?
Just gotta point this out. The divergent point between the Kelvin timeline and Prime timeline isn't that George Kirk served on the Kelvin. It's that the Narada went back in time and was used to destroy the Kelvin and kill George Kirk. So in both timelines, George Kirk served on the Kelvin. That fact alone is not indicative of either timeline.
I love the final scene with Pike and Spock. The emotions that are conveyed in their body language and few words spoken is amazing. The music too delivers it well
This whole episode is brilliant, I love the end conversation between Pike and Spock. It really reveals why Spock would risk his career to bring Pike to Talos.
I wrote this elsewhere, but the thing that makes Wesley's performance work is that the character of Kirk isn't written for laughs. He's written exactly how he's portrayed in the original show: as a top-tier officer, tactical genius and natural leader, and deadly serious where ship, crew, and Federation are concerned. I've not liked any of the new ST stuff, unfortunately even Picard, but credit to Strange New Worlds for slowly winning me over. Their willingness to understand and emulate what made the original series work is what makes this show work, with its various modern twists.
I liked his portrayal. I think they got the core elements of Kirk right without the over-the-top Denny Crane-style delivery which is what people think Kirk was like but really wasn't most of the time. I had kinda gone off my Kirk is my favorite Captain phase a long time ago but I think Paul's version might bring me around again.
Pike and Spock were very good friends. After serving together for 11 years, they developed a bond akin to being brothers. After the accident that crippled Pike, Spock was the one to take him to the transporters to let his friend and surrogate brother live the rest of his days in relative peace. In this instance, Pike was mulling about trying to avoid being crippled, but saw Spock be the one get hurt instead. He couldn't let Spock take his place. He saw dark times without Spock there. Each person in the timeline had a role to play, and Pike knew that his role wasn't to be on the Enterprise forever.
Liked that in this timeline, George Kirk (Sam and Jim Kirk's father) served in the Kelvin "before moving to..." they made sure to put that in the captions when Jim was telling Pike about his dad. That means that in THIS timeline, George Kirk didn't die in the Kelvin and, as we all know, in the prime timeline, he survives to see Jim Kirk take command of the Enterprise. These writers are en pointe... Nice.
No only does George Kirk live to see him take command of the Enterprise but according to “The Autobiography of James T. Kirk” both his parents George and Winona out live him. In the book he visits them in Riverside, Iowa for his fathers birthday just before he leaves to attend the commissioning of the Enterprise-B in 2294. While he’s there his nephew Peter Kirk shows up as a surprise having just been promoted to a Captain in Starfleet himself. According to the “The Autobiography of Jean-Luc Picard” though Peter Kirk doesn’t have such a prestigious a career as his uncle and spends most of his career in the science and operations devisions then by the time Picard attends the academy he’s flight instructor.
@@salamander337 Sulu showing attraction to women in the prime timeline and being married to a man in the Kelvin timeline is not a contradiction if he's bisexual.
I find it funny that - in the Kelvin timeline - Pike is Kirk's father figure... but in the prime timeline he's the father to Spock that Sarek couldn't be It's a very well done dynamic
In Balance of Terror, Kirk didn't wait for Starfleet to tell him what to do. He immediately started chasing the Romulan ship after sending off a report to Starfleet. At the end of the episode, a reply comes back from Starfleet saying "Do what you have to do." If Starfleet had come back and told him not to engage, he would have been screwed.
This show vastly surpassed my expectations and Mount's Pike is already a classic Trek captain. It's great to see a show portray a positive male role. All credit to everyone involved in this season.
I was sceptical about him when they first announced him as Pike for STD since I only knew him as Cullen Bohanon in Hell on Wheels but I should have realized back then, that a great cowboy will make a great ST captain :D
Pike was always the better character. But in the 60's, the network didn't want better characters, they wanted cowboys. They didn't want someone with self-doubt, they wanted someone with a cocky assertiveness. Is it any wonder though, that by the time the second film came along, they changed Kirk's character to be exactly what Pike was in the original pilot? They even gave him the same doctor/friend talk with a drink in his room, telling him to take back his command. I'm so glad we can finally get Pike as we were supposed to. Just a shame we didn't get Boyce along with him.
Absolutely loved this episode, there were so many good moments that hit me in the nostalgia feels. I loved them bringing back TOS movie uniform, the spock eyebrow raise moment, the setting for the episode(almost immediately realized what episode this corresponded to in TOS), and the conversation between kirk n pike.
The episode where the Enterprise goes to Majalis and Pike reconnects with who turns out to be the crazy ex really showed this. Spock was on point that episode, figuring things out and staying on the ball in a way that Pike was not.
Kirk's greatest strengths was his warrior nature and his improvisation. He would take the risks most men wouldn't and he was come up with unique solutions that helped defy the odds against success.
Have not seen the whole episodes, just the CZcams clips and this one made me quite emotional. Subtle performances and dialogue syncing perfectly. Bravo Strange New Worlds.
Picard was one i grew up with.. I love Picard, Mon Capitan. Sisko.. such a badass. Janeway got her people home and shared her torpedo tech I hope. Archer dared to be bold in a strange new world. Kirk was lucky, but also so damn brave and great with it.. Always entertained us. But Pike... Damn it Captain Pike is the BEST Captain.
As much as I love the O.G. Trek captains you mentioned (Shatner/Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer) I have to agree about Pike. Riker would probably be on that list too, but unfortunately we never got a spin-off Captain Riker series.
So, I have three things to say about this episode. One, I was surprised and relieved with how they handled the role of Kirk in this episode. He's not supposed to be the kirk we know from TOS or the TMP era films. Two, I love that they mention the Kelvin as being the ship Kirk's dad served on. Three, I have to say it's eerie how Pike was willing to give his life to save Spock, and yet both of them essentially die due to being exposed to warp field radiation (or delta rays) from being in close proximity to damaged warp cores (even though we never actually see Pike die in the prime timeline, I imagine he would have died due to complications from his injuries).
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this Kirk not supposed to be the one from TOS? Do you mean canonically or just that he hasn't developed that personality yet?
@@KryptonianChaos1 this is a "What If" episode about if Pike hadn't had his accident and stayed on as captain of the Enterprise. Experiences shape who we are, if Kirk doesn't become captain of the Enterprise he's not going to necessarily have that moxy
I've watched "Quality of Mercy" three times(that's sad isn't it?) and it's amazing how fast Wesley's Kirk grows on you. He can act, that's not an issue. And being a supporting character in someone else's show doesn't give you a lot of options for establishing yourself the way you would with episodes you're the star of week after week. I think he's fine, a little 50's geeky. He reminds me of Dick York who played Darrin on "Bewitched".
To be honest, Wesley's depiction of Jim Kirk actually reminded me a lot of Stephen Collins' portrayal of Will Decker in "The Motion Picture". Both in facial expressions and voice.
I have a feeling Spock is going to take a trip to Talos IV to set the stage for the events of The Menagerie at some point. He'll advise the Talosians about Pike's future and that they will be prepared for everything
I believe that Pike knew that Kirk would eventually succeed him as Captain of the Enterprise and sensed that Uhura would find where she belongs. RIP Nichelle Nichols.
Something that older Pike said made me think. He said that in every other eventual outcome Spock died (presumably at any time in the future) but in this episode there was a lot of emphasis on Pike analysing Kirk, like Kirk was being tested. Did older Pike know that Kirk and Spock would become friends and Kirk would take his regenerated body back to Vulcan and re-unite his Katra with his body, thus eventually saving Spock. Was younger Pike's mission this episode just to set the course for things to come and eventually unite Kirk and Spock thus saving himself and Spock in the that future. Pike's eventual evaluation of Kirk is that he could command the Enterprise when Pike took a desk job, I mean he must be pondering Kirk's future in the scene as Spock walks in towards the end, he has his file on screen.
Lot of negative comments I've seen so far on Paul Wesley's Kirk. Honestly, he was fine. No actor is ever in a great position to play the role because people either think you aren't doing enough Shatner or overdoing it. Important to remember this is a different Kirk. Different ship, different crew and he hasn't had Spock and McCoy with him for any period of time either (I've always thought those two at his back gave him more swagger/bravado because he essentially was confident in his counsel). I'll reserve more judgement when we see more of Wesley in season two as a younger version of Kirk. That's kinda what this came off to me as even though they essentially asked him to play mature Kirk from the TOS era and an all-time classic episode (again, tough ask to start with when you're main role moving forward will be to establish a version of the character we've as yet not seen).
I still think this is one of the most important conversations in Trek history, even though it's on a movie people love to hate. McCoy: You know, you two can drive a man to drink. Kirk: Me? What did I do? McCoy: Life is too short to do such stupid stunts. Not sure if it crossed that macho mind of yours, but you should have been killed. Kirk: It crossed my mind. McCoy: And? Kirk: And, Even as I fell, I knew I wouldn't have died. McCoy: Oh? I thought he was the only one who was Immortal. Kirk: Oh, no, it's not that. I knew I wouldn't have died because the two of you were with me. Spock: I don't understand. Kirk: I always knew I'd die alone. These three are a true Trifecta.
They both experienced being in multiple timelines , yet can't speak about em, unless altering the time line they're currently on...what trippy conversation...😬😳🤯
Absolutely! Mount's portrayal of Pike is the Captain we never got to see, with the exception of Jeffrey Hunter's one portrayal in The Cage/Menagerie two-parter episode.
Paul Wesley clearly doesn’t look or sound like Shatner and that’s fine. But he doesn’t have the presence as an actor to convince you that he could lead several hundred people. That becomes more obvious when he’s standing next to Anson Mount, who makes Wesley look like a junior officer. I do like that this scene clearly establishes why Spock is willing to risk his own future to help Pike return to Talos. He knows Pike saved him.
The actor playing Captain Kirk looks more like a young Dr. McCoy. He doesn't seem to have much screen presence like the last two actors who played Kirk.
@@willscorner8423 That's the point of the episode. You are supposed to see Kirk as overshadowed by Pike. It's not some failure of the actor. The entire story and performance is supposed to make you think that.
@@willscorner8423 Heh, Shatner pulling the Hulk Hogan style "that don't work for me, Brother" card, and changing up the script to make himself look better :P Its funny because we know The Shat is exactly that kind of person
FINALLY, Trek that's Trek ! Anson Mount , Ethan Peck, and everybody made this entire season work. Oh, and sailingmaster is right - THIS is the universe George Kirk lived and raised his boys, and yeah, he served on the Kelvin, but didn't die on it.
This Kirk had someone to idolize in Captain Garth that the Kelvin Timeline Kirk did not. I think that may have been what helped keep him a bit more grounded in his younger Prime years. Would be nice to see that character in SNW too, but Paramount likely wants to disassociate itself from anything remotely related to a certain fanfilm project. Having Gary Mitchell as his Academy friend may have helped too. The bigger hothead at his side may have made Kirk think "okay, we may need to tone it down a little", while instead having Bones at his side gave Kirk a self-appointed license to party. So many factors that one changed event can drastically affect.
Hopefully literally. Hope he bulks up somewhat. Not just to better resemble Shatners Kirk in TOS, but he frankly looks small compared to Anson Mount’s massive figure
How loyalty crosses species, times, events, we may never know. But Spock's unwavering loyalty to both the truth, and those he serves with, truly make the words T'Pring once told him all the more relevanr: "You are known among our people, almost a legend. I did not want to be the consort of a legend." So even T'Pring realized Spock's importance and chose a more "Salt of Vulcan" type in Stonn. But Spock truly became one of the Federation's finest minds. And truly earned the moniker of "legend".
@Bellmason which could make us think how big the SNW Enterprise really is. There is a line in DS9 where Sisko and Dax have a conversation how "packed" Constitution Ships were, but here quarters have sizes bigger than TNG.
The actor that plays kirk is great the entire cast is great, the writing is great i wish they would have said its an alternate time line which would explain the look...... it erks me but the acting from all the actors are awesome..
SNW is not an alternate timeline. THIS EPISODE is an alternate timeline. It's Pike being shown what the future will be if he avoids his accident and remains in command of the Enterprise through the TOS era (instead of Kirk). People are commenting on how "SNW Is an alternate timeline" based on clips from this episode without watching it. You kind of have to watch the episode. The entire thing is Pike being given a vision (via a time crystal) of what would've happened if HE had been in command of the Enterprise during Balance of Terror instead of Kirk. If's a what-if scenario.
I like the new look, if Gene had the means to i imagine this wouldn't of been to far off from what he would of designed, but what they had both in resources and imagination in the 60s was far more limited then what we have in the 2020s.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf TOS had a comically low budget. I'm surprised the original series looked as good as it did. Compare to Doctor Who from the same time period, TOS did much better.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf If Gene had the means to he'd do what he always did. Move the timeline forward and not stay stuck in the past to cynically feed off of nostalgia. Yes, Gene was a cynical profiteer too. But at least he had some creativity to go with it.
Love the soundtrack in this scene. Pike learns fate can be kind as well as cruel. Kirk will cheat death for a chance to live cause he believes every problem can have a favorable solution. Spock is the bridge between two worlds. 🙂
I was about to wonder about how strange the TWOK-Uniform looks but then I noticed the Shoulderparts and realized this isn’t even supposed to be the exact same design.
Pike was always the better character anyway. It just so happens the network didn't want complex characters, they wanted cowboys, so we got Kirk instead.
0:10 Precise moment that you realize that the only blessing that you're likely to get from being completely paralyzed, is that you'll never get to make another dad joke as long as you live.
You know, I love Star Trek. And I love the first one, The Original Series (TOS), the one made in the 60s. The visuals we're horrible, ridicolous sometimes, nearly cartoonish, but the stories were great. Well written, compact sci fi tales that kept you watching and ignore the fact that you've already seen that scenario 12 times before in 12 previous episodes, or the fact that you see the ship's wires. And I love Shatner's Kirk (it's even weird say "Shatner's Kirk"). I kept rewatching the entire series from time to time. With that said, that someone thinks into doing a remake of Kirk's adventures, it's something I not only understand, but I even find that idea exciting. It gives me hype to think into those stories I loved so much told again with a 2022 persepective, and the visuals today's technology can bring, detailed, action thrilled shootings with unknow, terrifyng aliens, wit and will competitions with cosmic forces of unfathomable power, space dogfights done with incredible CGI media. Imagine the Wrath of Khan done with 2022 visual tech. And I like this James T. Kirk very much. This actor has done Kirk's persona his own instead of imitate Shatner's performance. He's not Shatner, he doesn't have to. Same with Spock, I like this Spock. A lot. The thing is, this series is proof that a Star Trek TOS remake can be done for younger generations (I'm saying like I'm 50 years old, while I'm in my earlies 30s) to watch and enjoy. And can be done very well, trying to bring both new and old together. Nostalgia isn't the reason I say, said and will always say, Abraham's movies were a mess, a mediocre, souless corporate garbage. It was because... Well, they were written for what it seems to be a cocaine addicted psychotic monkey with a fetish for lens flares. This show is proof a remake of TOS can be made without insulting every single trekker's memory. I love the feeling to be excited for Star Trek's next week episode, or next season, or whatever. And frakly, yes, there are some mistakes made that contradict trek's canon universe. But I don't care. This show is fantastic.
TOS had some of the greatest SciFi writers of the time write or pitch stories for it. I think people tend to forget that. Plus there wasn't as much SciFi during TOS time than nowadays, so the minds of the writers that weren't SciFi Author Behemoths were more "established DOs and DON'Ts" shackles-free in ways more than one. Nowadays there's so much SciFi that people practically shout "Unoriginal Copycat!" even if what they see is 1% relevant to something else(was especially like that during ENT's time which is a major reason for its cancellation I think). STSNW is even more remarkable in this way and basically emphasizes that it isn't only the story that matters, but the delivery, setting, and other factors. Also The fans tend to rip Trek apart, way more than they should. I tend to avoid places that this happens, cause like the Romulan commander even says it clearly, that people allow ego to get in the way too much. This is what destroyed PIC seasons 1 and 2 imo: fans interventions.
The facial expressions of the actor playing Pike really remind me of Shatner’s Kirk and Wesley(especially in the thumbnail for this clip) looks like Darin from Bewitched
I really did love this episode and i love both seasons so far it really makes you feel for Pike and it make the episodes in TOS where Spock comits mutiny much more better as it shows spock showing his captain debt of gratitude by taking him to Talos 4
I believe that captain Kirk final dialogue was "my father George was first officer on the Kelvin before moving to Tarsus" If that's so, does that mean that in this universe his parents were killed on Tarsus IV? TOS never admitted that fact, but I always assumed that was what happened
According to Star Trek 2009, Prime Spock tells Kelvin Kirk that Prime Kirk's parents lived to see him become starship captain. So that means Prime Timeline Kirk's parents didn't die on Tarsus IV!
I think Kirk's line about his father affirmed SNW is in the non- Kelvin timeline. Tarsus is where TOS Kirk was living with his father, who lived beyond his birth.
Thats why Pike was given a choice to choose, its either him or spock, which means spock is an important character, not just being the best in starfleet and being the best officer at the enterprise but also the character that created the split in parallel timeline from the prime timeline also known as the kelvin timeline. So if Pike saves himself and the cadets and in result the death of spock, the kelvin timeline would not be created
Oh, it was more than that. Elder Pike mentioned losing Spock meant losing any chance of peace with the Romulans. That means, no Reunification. Spock's efforts on Romulus result in the Romulans returning to Vulcan in the 28th century.
@@jamesbuchanan4414 What Romulans? They were taken out in that Supernova in ST 2007, remember? Trying to make sense of all the conflicting BS is a losing battle . . .
Captain Pike will always be one of the greatest Captains in starfleet. The sacrifices he made knowing what would happen if he didn’t make certain decisions and still made them with the knowledge of what awaited him is a level of courage few would have.
He was worthy of the name "Captain of the Enterprise" The original series could not give him credit because that was Kirk's show...the Kelvin timeline was the first time we saw what Pike could have been and people agreed that this was the type of Pike Enterprise needed before Kirk. And now we are able to see all three sides: original, Kelvin and now this: Discovery/Strange New Worlds. Not bad for a character that we only had one episode with and then was bumped off.
I was going to ask when Spock was ever a captain, but then I remembered the greatest "Star Trek" movie of all time and now I'm wondering how I ever forgot.
How many Captains did serve on the Enterprise or Enterprise A at the same time again?...I think 3...but i don´t know if McKoy actually managed to get that Rank...the 3 Would be Kirk,Spock,and Scotty^^
I cannot find/see the series. Hence, these 4-5 minute pieces on CZcams let me see how the writing for this series just keeps on getting better and better! 🖖🏿
Up until I started watching Fan films I very much doubted anyone else could play Kirk other than William Shatner. Now I look forward to see other actors portray these characters just to see how they interpret them.
This is easy why both captains were different. Kirk knew the rule bend them most of the time. Pike knew the rules only bend them when it was no other choice. Pike great quality during peace time. Kirk great quality all the time. Why when the poop hits the fan rules most of the time get in the way. Out of the box thinking almost always wins
I really wish to see the USS Kelvin in a museum in future seasons. As well as George Kirk now as an Admiral. Would be cool if they get Chris Hemsworth returning if wasn't for his costs.
I'd still like to see a series where Captain Robert April, as we saw him in the cartoon series, was in command of the enterprise. Changing his race and age for the show, or putting relatives of villains in the show... It's not like a captain to not read reports of previous captains and crew.
I absolutely love the sets. The openness of them is spectacular. This is what you hope for the future. Not the closet spaces of TOS or even TNG. At first, I wasn't really happy about the Quantum Disregard for Trek Canon. But I do believe Gene and the others are very content with this continuation of their voyages. I know I am. 🖖
Open spaces are unrealistic though cos they're a waste of energy. that's the reason why real spacecraft and submarines are so cramped. There's no logical reason to carry dead weight.
Spock's quick on the uptake. Something is going on. And Pike had quite a profound change in the last five minutes. Somethings are bigger than our normal perception. Pike can not talk about it. Spock is an excellent first officer and when the time comes he will be so again for Kirk. Keep in mind that when pike is incapacitated Spock is the obvious choice to take command. But he doesn't want command. I think XO gives him control over department heads and the ability to manage/ monitor the whole ship. Which control is important to Vulcans. But command would take him away from his scientific research which is something he highly values.
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The thing I love about this episode is that it doesn't throw Pike under the bus in favor of Kirk. Each decision Pike makes throughout the episode and his overall more reserved approach has logical reasons behind it, the overall result just happens to be war with the Romulans. A lesser show would have just had Pike be incompetant and Kirk come in, be super awesome and know exactly what to do. But here the point wasn't that the situation needed a "better" captain, just a different captain.
he is a good captain just not the right captain
Agreed, SNW Pike is the kind of captain a peaceful federation would want for exploration and diplomacy. TOS Kirk is the captain the federation needs for defense and protecting their interest from a hostile universe. They are different, but both seek to create peace in their own ways, diplomacy for Pike and deterrence for Kirk.
@@time391 On top of that, Starfleet needs both types of captains. The Soldiers to fight the war, and the diplomats to build the peace. Neither is more important. All have a role that only they can do in the Federation.
Well said, dude. I see Pike as a good captain, and the kind of diplomatic captain Federation should have in their fleet. Hell, his goal of trying to pursue peace with the Romulans was a worthwhile goal, and may have even been the preferred strategy for a different time. Sadly, it just was not the right strategy for what this situation called for. That doesn't make Pike a bad captain. Just makes him more human as a character. To paraphrase a Picard quote that comes to mind it's possible to make no mistakes, and still lose. That is not a weakness. That's life.
And I think this experience is what lead Pike to fight as hard as he did for Una. I think he now understands that while diplomacy is always a goal, one must always be prepared to fight.
To quote Theodore Roosevelt: Speak softly and carry a big stick.
I can see how Spock and Pike on the last scene sets the stage of why Spock was willing to throw his entire career to transport Pike to Talos IV later on the timeline.
It really syncs up nicely. I loved that and the Pike/Kirk scene, particularly future Pike letting that happen. Was a nice moment for Pike to be reassured that his ship would be in good hands when he left.
Yes, this Scene anchor his behavior in the Future. Glad they show it to us
@@ZJBorg it checks out. It was implied years ago in the prime timeline Pike was a fleet captain and he had major input who got promoted to starship captain and who got assigned to ships. Before this series it was kind of hazy how and when Kirk and Pike actually met. But from the dialogue on TOS episode of the Menagerie Kirk knew him.
Yes it explains how Spock can act so loyally and illogically in the TOS episode "Menagerie". I'm glad that plot holes can be explained.
That was EXACTLY the writers' intent of that exchange.
Great scene in a great episode. My two favorite bits: when Older Pike realizes Kirk's about to come in and says "Oh yeah," remembering fondly what's about to happen, and then Pike's brilliant, funny-in-context line of "Just talking to myself."
Sometimes they cane be heavy handed in the writing or the acting, (See Captain Pike dropping pirate lines) but all in all it is hard not to like these characters.
@@j3pelfrey I thought the pirate line was Pike showing his playful boy scout nature. He clearly feels compelled to save as many lives as he can and avoid conflict wherever possible. He offered to cook for his captors. He is always searching for a human connection, an emotional avenue towards friendship with almost everyone.
I agree that "Quality of Mercy" really hits all the touchpoints of excellence. It pays due homage to "Balance of Terror" while charting its own course regarding Pike's arc of trying to avoid not only his demise but the loss of lives of future Star Fleet officers. It was also a brilliantly thoughtful examination of the different command styles and philosophies between Pike and Kirk. Pike is a man driven to avoid conflict whenever and wherever possible. Kirk accepts that sometimes it's necessary to give your opponent a bloody nose to ward off future full blown fights. It's torn right from Neville Chamberlin's peace in our time approach which proved disastrous.
It's admirable to see someone who can face his dreadful fate with dignity.
The way I read it, Pike knows that people in his profession put themselves into dangerous situations all the time in the line of duty. The accident which leaves him crippled does not even happen in battle but a machinery failure during peacetime. I think the way he is coming to accept it is that unlike every other officer in Starfleet he knows how much time he has with the people he cares about, I also get the feeling he suspects that Kirk may be the guy who replaces him, so he knows he would be leaving the Enterprise in good hands.
@@logosofgame4273 Plus we know that Pike will end up having a happy ending of sorts in spite of the accident.
@@darthroden of sorts. I still sort of hope he still has a decent relationship up until the moment. I'm sorta rooting for the Pike/Batel thing to work...
@@logosofgame4273 good perhaps but nonetheless boring hands.
@Samurai Momo I think the Series Finale will be the aftermath kf The Menagerie
I like how they treated the Wrath of Khan uniform style with more respect than most episodes of TNG did.
Well..wasn´t a lack of undershirts kinda popular in the 80s?^^
Yeah, the undershirt missing made the uniforms look off. Never understood why they went for that look.
Those were cadet uniforms as well.
TNG never showed any flashbacks with actual "Monster Maroons" (aka the Wrath of Khan to Generations Starfleet uniforms). Episodes like "Tapestry" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave viewers the follow-up version that came between the Monster Maroons and the one-piece jumpsuits of TNG S1. Ones without the turtleneck under-tunics.
I do agree that the lack of undershirts or at least collarless ones made the middle period uniforms look strange and unprofessional.
EDIT: "Cause and Effect" showed the Monster Maroons. I wish to revise my statement.
TNG paid respect to them. Just shows the transition to no collar
"Now, your father was captain of a Starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's and yours, I dare you to do better." - Kelvin Timeline Pike
I don’t understand. Is this not connected to the movies
@@dimitries The new movies follow a new timeline that was created when Nero went back in time and destroyed the USS Kelvin, which also led to the death of Kirk's father, Kirk having a difficult upbringing and then dared into joining starfleet by Captain Pike. To distinguish both timelines, the original one is usually called "prime timeline", the other "Kelvin timeline", "Kelvinverse", "Abramsverse" or "JJVerse".
In the prime timeline, (where all shows and the older movies take place) this never happened. The Kelvin wasn't destroyed, therefor Kirk's father remained alive, Starfleet became less militaristic, Kirk wasn't promoted from Cadet to Captain in a single day and he met Pike only much later.
That being said, the Kelvinverse is still canon. It was referenced in Star Trek Discovery as "an alternate reality created by the incursion of a romulan mining ship" and the supernova Nero mentions (that destroyed Romulus) is a huge plot point of the first season in Star Trek Picard.
@@docburton8923 Thanks bro. I needed that breakdown. So do we start with this series if we want to watch the original timeline in chronological order
@@dimitriesChronologically it would be Enterprise, the first two seasons of Discovery, Strange New Worlds, then The Original Series.
That is seriously the best line in the JJ Verse
My favorite Kirk line ever is: "No. I'm from Iowa. I work in outer space."
It grounds the viewer and reminds them that these characters are part of a real place.
ironically one of the greatest naval officer in us military history (fleet admiral william leahy) is also from iowa. :D
A good line, but still can't compete with "What does God need with a starship?"
My fav: "Well a double dumb ass on you too!!"
“Transparent aluminum!?”
Yes from Star Trek 4 the voyage home.
I like the small chuckle and "oh, yeah" from Adm. Pike when Kirk comes. Something about that feels very reminiscent, like a fond remembrance, whether of a simpler time or the start of a new friendship.
Admiral Pike was probably like “yeah, you’ll want to meet this kid. He’ll be great in the future.”
This show was so good. Made me feel passionate about Star Trek again like I was as a kid.
Way better than Discovery that's for sure. If this Trek Universe follows the course that leads to or gets very close to the Prime Trek timeline we all know and love, then the Discovery universe can just fade out of existence where it belongs.
Hey Matt!
@@heatsinker_5517 Discovery and strange new worlds are in the prime timeline.
@@brad7504 No, they are part of the Kelvin JJ-verse.
@@heatsinker_5517 Discovery has an episode where a Time soldier hops over to the prime universe from the Kelvin universe. If it were already in the Kelvin universe then the dude wouldn't be in that episode. The creators have indicated it was part of the prime timeline back in 2017 so I don't know where this continued misinformation comes from with people like you. Makes me think you don't actually watch the show or read about what's going on with it. If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you're only saying it's not part of the prime timeline because you don't like it, which is not a very logical argument at all, so correct me if that is presumptuous.
It's interesting to see a more subdued version of Kirk. It's easy to forget that Shatner's portrayal of him was meant to be well into his career. He's gained confidence, he's gotten used to being looked up to, and he's in the prime of his career. Paul Wesley's Kirk is a younger, less sure of himself Kirk. He hasn't developed that swagger yet because he doesn't have the experience it takes to be that comfortable in the captain's chair. I hope we continue to see this version of Kirk slowly evolve into the self-assured, larger-than-life character he would become.
He's not younger Kirk, he is one from Balance of Terror just never got a chance to command Enterprise.
@@sw-gs For what it's worth, sometimes it's just a small difference to change someone's character - especially in Trek.
Picard is a perfect example (ie Tapestry)
Kirk is shaped by his crew just as much as he shapes them. It's a Kirk without Spock or the rest of the Enterprise crew, not just a Kirk without Enterprise.
Shatner's portrayal was much more nuanced than most folks give him credit for; Kirk was always "subdued" in more private or small-scale settings, and would perform more in larger groups and command settings. For me, this episode's take on Kirk was pretty much perfect, and I'm looking forward to seeing more in Season Two.
This Kirk is the same age as the one in balance of terror. You didn't really understand the episode, right?
Even Pike can't take his own dad jokes.
I wonder if these events are what inspires Pike, when offered a promotion to Fleet Captain, to recommend Kirk as his successor as captain of the Enterprise?
Yes! I think that’s why he said oh yeah and shut the case.
that would make sense. pike already saw kirk in action and knows kirk is the real deal.
I believe so. Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain.
It would go a long way towards explaining how Kirk ended up hitting captain before 30.
Just gotta point this out. The divergent point between the Kelvin timeline and Prime timeline isn't that George Kirk served on the Kelvin. It's that the Narada went back in time and was used to destroy the Kelvin and kill George Kirk. So in both timelines, George Kirk served on the Kelvin. That fact alone is not indicative of either timeline.
Well that just explains everything.
It really should be called the Narada timeline.
@@breakblade97 The Jar Jar Abrams timeline.
I second All of these motions!! 🤠👍
The narada kelvin variants
I love the final scene with Pike and Spock. The emotions that are conveyed in their body language and few words spoken is amazing. The music too delivers it well
This whole episode is brilliant, I love the end conversation between Pike and Spock. It really reveals why Spock would risk his career to bring Pike to Talos.
I wrote this elsewhere, but the thing that makes Wesley's performance work is that the character of Kirk isn't written for laughs. He's written exactly how he's portrayed in the original show: as a top-tier officer, tactical genius and natural leader, and deadly serious where ship, crew, and Federation are concerned. I've not liked any of the new ST stuff, unfortunately even Picard, but credit to Strange New Worlds for slowly winning me over. Their willingness to understand and emulate what made the original series work is what makes this show work, with its various modern twists.
I liked his portrayal. I think they got the core elements of Kirk right without the over-the-top Denny Crane-style delivery which is what people think Kirk was like but really wasn't most of the time. I had kinda gone off my Kirk is my favorite Captain phase a long time ago but I think Paul's version might bring me around again.
@@NatashaEstrada Denny Crane-like? Lol, you mean Kirk-like :D
THIS! Thank you. My sentiments exactly.
@@NatashaEstrada well now I'm off to watch Denny Crane clips again
Thier dialog feels so bad
It's like a 90s pc game
The timing and delivery.....meh
So this is jj timeline?
Seems pretty gay
Pike and Spock were very good friends. After serving together for 11 years, they developed a bond akin to being brothers. After the accident that crippled Pike, Spock was the one to take him to the transporters to let his friend and surrogate brother live the rest of his days in relative peace. In this instance, Pike was mulling about trying to avoid being crippled, but saw Spock be the one get hurt instead. He couldn't let Spock take his place. He saw dark times without Spock there. Each person in the timeline had a role to play, and Pike knew that his role wasn't to be on the Enterprise forever.
Liked that in this timeline, George Kirk (Sam and Jim Kirk's father) served in the Kelvin "before moving to..." they made sure to put that in the captions when Jim was telling Pike about his dad. That means that in THIS timeline, George Kirk didn't die in the Kelvin and, as we all know, in the prime timeline, he survives to see Jim Kirk take command of the Enterprise. These writers are en pointe... Nice.
To Tarsus IV, seemingly, I inferred.
No only does George Kirk live to see him take command of the Enterprise but according to “The Autobiography of James T. Kirk” both his parents George and Winona out live him. In the book he visits them in Riverside, Iowa for his fathers birthday just before he leaves to attend the commissioning of the Enterprise-B in 2294. While he’s there his nephew Peter Kirk shows up as a surprise having just been promoted to a Captain in Starfleet himself.
According to the “The Autobiography of Jean-Luc Picard” though Peter Kirk doesn’t have such a prestigious a career as his uncle and spends most of his career in the science and operations devisions then by the time Picard attends the academy he’s flight instructor.
Of course the JJ Abram movie is an alternate time line, not cannon. And Sulu was portray as a straight man not gay as stated by George Takei.
@@salamander337 the JJ movie being in a different universe does not mean it's not canon. It's merely the Canon of a different universe
@@salamander337 Sulu showing attraction to women in the prime timeline and being married to a man in the Kelvin timeline is not a contradiction if he's bisexual.
I find it funny that - in the Kelvin timeline - Pike is Kirk's father figure... but in the prime timeline he's the father to Spock that Sarek couldn't be
It's a very well done dynamic
In Balance of Terror, Kirk didn't wait for Starfleet to tell him what to do. He immediately started chasing the Romulan ship after sending off a report to Starfleet. At the end of the episode, a reply comes back from Starfleet saying "Do what you have to do."
If Starfleet had come back and told him not to engage, he would have been screwed.
“Shall we self-destruct, then, since they were going to defeat us with the loss of all hands?”
This show vastly surpassed my expectations and Mount's Pike is already a classic Trek captain. It's great to see a show portray a positive male role. All credit to everyone involved in this season.
I was sceptical about him when they first announced him as Pike for STD since I only knew him as Cullen Bohanon in Hell on Wheels but I should have realized back then, that a great cowboy will make a great ST captain :D
Pike was always the better character. But in the 60's, the network didn't want better characters, they wanted cowboys. They didn't want someone with self-doubt, they wanted someone with a cocky assertiveness. Is it any wonder though, that by the time the second film came along, they changed Kirk's character to be exactly what Pike was in the original pilot? They even gave him the same doctor/friend talk with a drink in his room, telling him to take back his command.
I'm so glad we can finally get Pike as we were supposed to. Just a shame we didn't get Boyce along with him.
Absolutely loved this episode, there were so many good moments that hit me in the nostalgia feels. I loved them bringing back TOS movie uniform, the spock eyebrow raise moment, the setting for the episode(almost immediately realized what episode this corresponded to in TOS), and the conversation between kirk n pike.
My soul is satisfied. I saw why the best first officer in Starfleet stole a UFP queen of the line starship: so his friend could live in peace.
I really like Pike's version of the "movie era" uniforms. I'm not super into Star Trek cosplay, but I think I need one.
Wait for it. It will be made , trust me.
Oh I'd love a Star Trek uniform but I'd look like Scotty in the Dyson sphere episode on TNG.
2:47 - I can live with it... ... ... ... ... I *can* live with it
Good connection to a great episode 😆
Nice.
I absolutely love the connections made, that help to explain a lot of the Trek history and timelines. Love this series.
Love the seamless moments between characters, ... great acting, dialogue and story.
An amazing episode, Pike actually said Enterprise will be lucky to have you as their captain.
I love how fucking smart they allow Spock to be in this series.
The episode where the Enterprise goes to Majalis and Pike reconnects with who turns out to be the crazy ex really showed this. Spock was on point that episode, figuring things out and staying on the ball in a way that Pike was not.
As he always was. Not just intelligent, but perceptive as well.
Spock discovers the importance of friendship with PIke and then strengthens it with Jim
Kirk's greatest strengths was his warrior nature and his improvisation. He would take the risks most men wouldn't and he was come up with unique solutions that helped defy the odds against success.
Have not seen the whole episodes, just the CZcams clips and this one made me quite emotional. Subtle performances and dialogue syncing perfectly. Bravo Strange New Worlds.
It's an excellent show. The Star Trek we have been waiting for
The fleshing out of characters in the show is off the charts.
And now we know the basis on which Spock transports Pike to Talos IV... nicely done SNW.
Picard was one i grew up with.. I love Picard, Mon Capitan.
Sisko.. such a badass. Janeway got her people home and shared her torpedo tech I hope. Archer dared to be bold in a strange new world.
Kirk was lucky, but also so damn brave and great with it.. Always entertained us. But Pike...
Damn it Captain Pike is the BEST Captain.
As much as I love the O.G. Trek captains you mentioned (Shatner/Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer) I have to agree about Pike. Riker would probably be on that list too, but unfortunately we never got a spin-off Captain Riker series.
So, I have three things to say about this episode.
One, I was surprised and relieved with how they handled the role of Kirk in this episode. He's not supposed to be the kirk we know from TOS or the TMP era films.
Two, I love that they mention the Kelvin as being the ship Kirk's dad served on.
Three, I have to say it's eerie how Pike was willing to give his life to save Spock, and yet both of them essentially die due to being exposed to warp field radiation (or delta rays) from being in close proximity to damaged warp cores (even though we never actually see Pike die in the prime timeline, I imagine he would have died due to complications from his injuries).
That's kinda like a recall to the TOS timeline when Spock does die exposed to the radiation...i loved it..even brought back old memories
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this Kirk not supposed to be the one from TOS? Do you mean canonically or just that he hasn't developed that personality yet?
@@KryptonianChaos1 this is a "What If" episode about if Pike hadn't had his accident and stayed on as captain of the Enterprise. Experiences shape who we are, if Kirk doesn't become captain of the Enterprise he's not going to necessarily have that moxy
@@Ethan-dn1wc Oh I see, yeah that makes sense. Is the assumption now that Kirk will be more 'Shatner' in season 2 of SNW?
@@KryptonianChaos1 I think the assumption is that Shatner Kirk doesn't really happen until Kirk is asked to take command of the Enterprise.
I've watched "Quality of Mercy" three times(that's sad isn't it?) and it's amazing how fast Wesley's Kirk grows on you. He can act, that's not an issue. And being a supporting character in someone else's show doesn't give you a lot of options for establishing yourself the way you would with episodes you're the star of week after week. I think he's fine, a little 50's geeky. He reminds me of Dick York who played Darrin on "Bewitched".
Honestly he looks like Jim Carrey
Holy crap he really does give off Dick York vibes
More of a Dick Sargent vibe.
To be honest, Wesley's depiction of Jim Kirk actually reminded me a lot of Stephen Collins' portrayal of Will Decker in "The Motion Picture". Both in facial expressions and voice.
Let’s just call him Derwood. Capt Derwood Stevens.
I have a feeling Spock is going to take a trip to Talos IV to set the stage for the events of The Menagerie at some point. He'll advise the Talosians about Pike's future and that they will be prepared for everything
They probably already know and are just waiting for Spock's arrival.
They were at Talos IV before Boreth, and the scene was flash backed to on Discovery.
remember in the menagerie when spock stated he got a message from pike. it was the talosians who sent the message.
@@paulpisano8538 No. Spock just said he did. He faked the message
I believe that Pike knew that Kirk would eventually succeed him as Captain of the Enterprise and sensed that Uhura would find where she belongs. RIP Nichelle Nichols.
i totally just got chocked up and a few tears when he said "You are very important to me." I've never heard that in my life.
Something that older Pike said made me think. He said that in every other eventual outcome Spock died (presumably at any time in the future) but in this episode there was a lot of emphasis on Pike analysing Kirk, like Kirk was being tested. Did older Pike know that Kirk and Spock would become friends and Kirk would take his regenerated body back to Vulcan and re-unite his Katra with his body, thus eventually saving Spock. Was younger Pike's mission this episode just to set the course for things to come and eventually unite Kirk and Spock thus saving himself and Spock in the that future.
Pike's eventual evaluation of Kirk is that he could command the Enterprise when Pike took a desk job, I mean he must be pondering Kirk's future in the scene as Spock walks in towards the end, he has his file on screen.
Old Pike knew that Spock would be the one who works for Reunification. That means he has knowledge of events all the way into the TNG era.
Lot of negative comments I've seen so far on Paul Wesley's Kirk. Honestly, he was fine. No actor is ever in a great position to play the role because people either think you aren't doing enough Shatner or overdoing it. Important to remember this is a different Kirk. Different ship, different crew and he hasn't had Spock and McCoy with him for any period of time either (I've always thought those two at his back gave him more swagger/bravado because he essentially was confident in his counsel). I'll reserve more judgement when we see more of Wesley in season two as a younger version of Kirk. That's kinda what this came off to me as even though they essentially asked him to play mature Kirk from the TOS era and an all-time classic episode (again, tough ask to start with when you're main role moving forward will be to establish a version of the character we've as yet not seen).
I actualy thought he did a great job as Kirk. He did it really well :)
i liked paul wesleys more cerebral kirk.
I thought he did a great job. You have to remember it's a different Kirk like you said.
I still think this is one of the most important conversations in Trek history, even though it's on a movie people love to hate.
McCoy: You know, you two can drive a man to drink.
Kirk: Me? What did I do?
McCoy: Life is too short to do such stupid stunts. Not sure if it crossed that macho mind of yours, but you should have been killed.
Kirk: It crossed my mind.
McCoy: And?
Kirk: And, Even as I fell, I knew I wouldn't have died.
McCoy: Oh? I thought he was the only one who was Immortal.
Kirk: Oh, no, it's not that. I knew I wouldn't have died because the two of you were with me.
Spock: I don't understand.
Kirk: I always knew I'd die alone.
These three are a true Trifecta.
@@mwhalli that's always been one of my favorite conversations and all Trek.
They both experienced being in multiple timelines , yet can't speak about em, unless altering the time line they're currently on...what trippy conversation...😬😳🤯
In Anson Mount we have another iconic Captain. Genius casting choice. He IS Captain Pike.
Absolutely! Mount's portrayal of Pike is the Captain we never got to see, with the exception of Jeffrey Hunter's one portrayal in The Cage/Menagerie two-parter episode.
Yup, had to check. Kirk's serial number is the same as mentioned in TOS "Court Martial". Lifelong trekkies really appreciate little bits like that.
This Kirk + Pike = best modern Trek.
Wonderful episode! Star Trek has mostly hit the mark with What If shows. Like Star Trek TNG Yesterday’s Enterprise to many others.
Paul Wesley clearly doesn’t look or sound like Shatner and that’s fine. But he doesn’t have the presence as an actor to convince you that he could lead several hundred people. That becomes more obvious when he’s standing next to Anson Mount, who makes Wesley look like a junior officer.
I do like that this scene clearly establishes why Spock is willing to risk his own future to help Pike return to Talos. He knows Pike saved him.
It would have fit better if Kirk was a commander at this point. He still could have been in charge of another ship at that rank.
@@starsiegeplayer but farragut isn't small enough to be assigned to a commander rank CO
Also consider the example Pike gave to Spock for Spock's actions in Wrath of Khan.
@Rough Collies Rock yeah he is the tactical officer I think
Agreed
The actor playing Captain Kirk looks more like a young Dr. McCoy. He doesn't seem to have much screen presence like the last two actors who played Kirk.
But hes handsome
Give him time. With some more experience playing him - and maybe a few more lbs of muscle - he could grow into the role
He stood in the shadow of Ansons screen presence. I think even Shatner would have get lost in it.
@@willscorner8423 That's the point of the episode. You are supposed to see Kirk as overshadowed by Pike. It's not some failure of the actor. The entire story and performance is supposed to make you think that.
@@willscorner8423 Heh, Shatner pulling the Hulk Hogan style "that don't work for me, Brother" card, and changing up the script to make himself look better :P
Its funny because we know The Shat is exactly that kind of person
FINALLY, Trek that's Trek ! Anson Mount , Ethan Peck, and everybody made this entire season work. Oh, and sailingmaster is right - THIS is the universe George Kirk lived and raised his boys, and yeah, he served on the Kelvin, but didn't die on it.
This Kirk had someone to idolize in Captain Garth that the Kelvin Timeline Kirk did not. I think that may have been what helped keep him a bit more grounded in his younger Prime years. Would be nice to see that character in SNW too, but Paramount likely wants to disassociate itself from anything remotely related to a certain fanfilm project.
Having Gary Mitchell as his Academy friend may have helped too. The bigger hothead at his side may have made Kirk think "okay, we may need to tone it down a little", while instead having Bones at his side gave Kirk a self-appointed license to party.
So many factors that one changed event can drastically affect.
I like the music. So thematic but understated.
I still remember watching this I thought to myself this was from the scenes beginning to end the best I have seen from strange new worlds
Honestly, Wesley was okay as Kirk. I think in time, he'll grow into the role.
Hopefully literally. Hope he bulks up somewhat. Not just to better resemble Shatners Kirk in TOS, but he frankly looks small compared to Anson Mount’s massive figure
@@DocD173 Also true. Shatner did have some muscle on him.
He's Gotta Be Replaced 👎
@@channelwalk7286 Or else what, nerds will cry?
He needs to Buff up a little bit
How loyalty crosses species, times, events, we may never know. But Spock's unwavering loyalty to both the truth, and those he serves with, truly make the words T'Pring once told him all the more relevanr: "You are known among our people, almost a legend. I did not want to be the consort of a legend." So even T'Pring realized Spock's importance and chose a more "Salt of Vulcan" type in Stonn.
But Spock truly became one of the Federation's finest minds. And truly earned the moniker of "legend".
Love the fact that Pike's quarters are about the size of the Recreation Deck on the Enterprise in the Motion Picture
@Bellmason which could make us think how big the SNW Enterprise really is. There is a line in DS9 where Sisko and Dax have a conversation how "packed" Constitution Ships were, but here quarters have sizes bigger than TNG.
The actor that plays kirk is great the entire cast is great, the writing is great i wish they would have said its an alternate time line which would explain the look...... it erks me but the acting from all the actors are awesome..
SNW is not an alternate timeline. THIS EPISODE is an alternate timeline. It's Pike being shown what the future will be if he avoids his accident and remains in command of the Enterprise through the TOS era (instead of Kirk). People are commenting on how "SNW Is an alternate timeline" based on clips from this episode without watching it. You kind of have to watch the episode. The entire thing is Pike being given a vision (via a time crystal) of what would've happened if HE had been in command of the Enterprise during Balance of Terror instead of Kirk. If's a what-if scenario.
I wish I had some of what you were smoking so I can find it in my heart to love this mediocrity.
I like the new look, if Gene had the means to i imagine this wouldn't of been to far off from what he would of designed, but what they had both in resources and imagination in the 60s was far more limited then what we have in the 2020s.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf TOS had a comically low budget. I'm surprised the original series looked as good as it did. Compare to Doctor Who from the same time period, TOS did much better.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf If Gene had the means to he'd do what he always did. Move the timeline forward and not stay stuck in the past to cynically feed off of nostalgia.
Yes, Gene was a cynical profiteer too. But at least he had some creativity to go with it.
Love the soundtrack in this scene. Pike learns fate can be kind as well as cruel. Kirk will cheat death for a chance to live cause he believes every problem can have a favorable solution. Spock is the bridge between two worlds. 🙂
I was about to wonder about how strange the TWOK-Uniform looks but then I noticed the Shoulderparts and realized this isn’t even supposed to be the exact same design.
a 56 year old puzzle, finally comes together 1966-2022, now that's crazy, well if you live long enough you find the answer
Pike was always the better character anyway. It just so happens the network didn't want complex characters, they wanted cowboys, so we got Kirk instead.
Fate is fate no matter which way you turn it is always there to meet you.
It's a very tricky task to play Kirk without succumbing to the temptation to parody Shatner, but this version is excellent
0:10
Precise moment that you realize that the only blessing that you're likely to get from being completely paralyzed, is that you'll never get to make another dad joke as long as you live.
Finally some good Star Trek. Very good scene. 🙏🏻🤘🏻🖖🏻
He doesn’t just sound like Nimoy, he just has his cadence & essence down
This scene gets me in the feels. Good acting and writing here IMO.
stefan really broadened his horizons, more so with his hairstyle and severe lack of brooding than anything else lol
"I'm just talking to myself..." ROFL
This Spock… Chef’s kiss. Perfection
The writing here is some of the best in all of star trek
You know, I love Star Trek. And I love the first one, The Original Series (TOS), the one made in the 60s. The visuals we're horrible, ridicolous sometimes, nearly cartoonish, but the stories were great. Well written, compact sci fi tales that kept you watching and ignore the fact that you've already seen that scenario 12 times before in 12 previous episodes, or the fact that you see the ship's wires. And I love Shatner's Kirk (it's even weird say "Shatner's Kirk"). I kept rewatching the entire series from time to time.
With that said, that someone thinks into doing a remake of Kirk's adventures, it's something I not only understand, but I even find that idea exciting. It gives me hype to think into those stories I loved so much told again with a 2022 persepective, and the visuals today's technology can bring, detailed, action thrilled shootings with unknow, terrifyng aliens, wit and will competitions with cosmic forces of unfathomable power, space dogfights done with incredible CGI media. Imagine the Wrath of Khan done with 2022 visual tech. And I like this James T. Kirk very much. This actor has done Kirk's persona his own instead of imitate Shatner's performance. He's not Shatner, he doesn't have to. Same with Spock, I like this Spock. A lot.
The thing is, this series is proof that a Star Trek TOS remake can be done for younger generations (I'm saying like I'm 50 years old, while I'm in my earlies 30s) to watch and enjoy. And can be done very well, trying to bring both new and old together. Nostalgia isn't the reason I say, said and will always say, Abraham's movies were a mess, a mediocre, souless corporate garbage. It was because... Well, they were written for what it seems to be a cocaine addicted psychotic monkey with a fetish for lens flares.
This show is proof a remake of TOS can be made without insulting every single trekker's memory. I love the feeling to be excited for Star Trek's next week episode, or next season, or whatever. And frakly, yes, there are some mistakes made that contradict trek's canon universe. But I don't care. This show is fantastic.
TOS had some of the greatest SciFi writers of the time write or pitch stories for it. I think people tend to forget that. Plus there wasn't as much SciFi during TOS time than nowadays, so the minds of the writers that weren't SciFi Author Behemoths were more "established DOs and DON'Ts" shackles-free in ways more than one. Nowadays there's so much SciFi that people practically shout "Unoriginal Copycat!" even if what they see is 1% relevant to something else(was especially like that during ENT's time which is a major reason for its cancellation I think). STSNW is even more remarkable in this way and basically emphasizes that it isn't only the story that matters, but the delivery, setting, and other factors.
Also The fans tend to rip Trek apart, way more than they should. I tend to avoid places that this happens, cause like the Romulan commander even says it clearly, that people allow ego to get in the way too much. This is what destroyed PIC seasons 1 and 2 imo: fans interventions.
The facial expressions of the actor playing Pike really remind me of Shatner’s Kirk and Wesley(especially in the thumbnail for this clip) looks like Darin from Bewitched
Shatner and Nirmoy who play most Icon sifi character ever can never be replace , However Am glad the TOS still around .
ture but they can actualy play the role of awe inspiring Mentors to others such as these actors of these characters in star trek SNW.
I really did love this episode and i love both seasons so far it really makes you feel for Pike and it make the episodes in TOS where Spock comits mutiny much more better as it shows spock showing his captain debt of gratitude by taking him to Talos 4
"no, really. I'm just... talking to myself"
peak pike
I believe that captain Kirk final dialogue was "my father George was first officer on the Kelvin before moving to Tarsus"
If that's so, does that mean that in this universe his parents were killed on Tarsus IV?
TOS never admitted that fact, but I always assumed that was what happened
According to Star Trek 2009, Prime Spock tells Kelvin Kirk that Prime Kirk's parents lived to see him become starship captain. So that means Prime Timeline Kirk's parents didn't die on Tarsus IV!
@@ChateauLonLon Well, Spock said "he" as in Kirk's father. His mother could still have died on Tarsus IV. We know Sam Kirk dies on Deneva.
Nice to see my favorite Starfleet uniform again.
Now I want to see what a TMP uniform update would look like :3
I think Kirk's line about his father affirmed SNW is in the non- Kelvin timeline. Tarsus is where TOS Kirk was living with his father, who lived beyond his birth.
Only the three modern films are in the Kelvin Timeline... they are their own adaptation of Star´Trek.
Kirk looks and sounds like a young Jim Carrey trying his best to do a serious take on Kirk.
I see that Kirk doesn't have Stefan Salvatore's "Hero Hair"😉😁.
Thats why Pike was given a choice to choose, its either him or spock, which means spock is an important character, not just being the best in starfleet and being the best officer at the enterprise but also the character that created the split in parallel timeline from the prime timeline also known as the kelvin timeline. So if Pike saves himself and the cadets and in result the death of spock, the kelvin timeline would not be created
Not creating the kelvin timeline would be a positive.
Oh, it was more than that. Elder Pike mentioned losing Spock meant losing any chance of peace with the Romulans. That means, no Reunification. Spock's efforts on Romulus result in the Romulans returning to Vulcan in the 28th century.
so J.J's bullshit is erased ?
@@jamesbuchanan4414 What Romulans? They were taken out in that Supernova in ST 2007, remember? Trying to make sense of all the conflicting BS is a losing battle . . .
@@jkleylein that's the kelvin timeline actually
well. Ya tried for Kirk. Ya got Darren from Bewitched. Lol
Well now I'll never unsee that.
Captain Pike will always be one of the greatest Captains in starfleet. The sacrifices he made knowing what would happen if he didn’t make certain decisions and still made them with the knowledge of what awaited him is a level of courage few would have.
He was worthy of the name "Captain of the Enterprise"
The original series could not give him credit because that was Kirk's show...the Kelvin timeline was the first time we saw what Pike could have been and people agreed that this was the type of Pike Enterprise needed before Kirk. And now we are able to see all three sides: original, Kelvin and now this: Discovery/Strange New Worlds.
Not bad for a character that we only had one episode with and then was bumped off.
What performances… 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
We see 3 captains of the USS Enterprise. Even Spock gets to become a captain eventually.
I was going to ask when Spock was ever a captain, but then I remembered the greatest "Star Trek" movie of all time and now I'm wondering how I ever forgot.
How many Captains did serve on the Enterprise or Enterprise A at the same time again?...I think 3...but i don´t know if McKoy actually managed to get that Rank...the 3 Would be Kirk,Spock,and Scotty^^
@@NashmanNash *McCoy made admiral, so he had to have made captains at some point. He never, however, captained the _Enterprise._
@@r0bw00d Neither did Scotty,or in case of the "A"..Spock^^
Captain Spock trained Cadets on the out of Commision Enterprise. So it counts a little bit
I cannot find/see the series. Hence, these 4-5 minute pieces on CZcams let me see how the writing for this series just keeps on getting better and better! 🖖🏿
Up until I started watching Fan films I very much doubted anyone else could play Kirk other than William Shatner. Now I look forward to see other actors portray these characters just to see how they interpret them.
And this is why if given the opportunity, I would NEVER want to know my fate.
This is, nuance.
I can love the Kelvin, Pike, too.
Bruce Greenwood for the win
This is easy why both captains were different. Kirk knew the rule bend them most of the time. Pike knew the rules only bend them when it was no other choice. Pike great quality during peace time. Kirk great quality all the time. Why when the poop hits the fan rules most of the time get in the way. Out of the box thinking almost always wins
kirk is a warrior
pike is not
I really wish to see the USS Kelvin in a museum in future seasons. As well as George Kirk now as an Admiral. Would be cool if they get Chris Hemsworth returning if wasn't for his costs.
gotta love how they mentioned the Kelvin
I'd still like to see a series where Captain Robert April, as we saw him in the cartoon series, was in command of the enterprise. Changing his race and age for the show, or putting relatives of villains in the show... It's not like a captain to not read reports of previous captains and crew.
I absolutely love the sets.
The openness of them is spectacular.
This is what you hope for the future. Not the closet spaces of TOS or even TNG.
At first, I wasn't really happy about the Quantum Disregard for Trek Canon. But I do believe Gene and the others are very content with this continuation of their voyages. I know I am. 🖖
Open spaces are unrealistic though cos they're a waste of energy. that's the reason why real spacecraft and submarines are so cramped. There's no logical reason to carry dead weight.
@@DS9TREK
I can't argue with the logic of that.
But the visual appeal is definitely there.
We are talking Fantasy, after all.
Chris has no idea HOW important he is to Spock at this moment. Spock will break Federation law and court the death penalty for Chris in the future.
Love this show. ❤️
All of its trash though in honesty this is as good as Generation's. Thank you for this much MUCH LOVED needed breath of fresh air. Semper Fi
Spock's quick on the uptake. Something is going on. And Pike had quite a profound change in the last five minutes.
Somethings are bigger than our normal perception. Pike can not talk about it.
Spock is an excellent first officer and when the time comes he will be so again for Kirk.
Keep in mind that when pike is incapacitated Spock is the obvious choice to take command. But he doesn't want command.
I think XO gives him control over department heads and the ability to manage/ monitor the whole ship.
Which control is important to Vulcans.
But command would take him away from his scientific research which is something he highly values.
Love that Danish designer lamps
Stefan Salvatore 😱 Paul Wesley ❤
Spock: "I believe I may owe you a debt of gratitude, Captain..."
Pike (in Picard's voice):
*"YOU'RE DAMMED RIGHT!"*