Is Tudor Still The Best At Dive Watches Under $5000 in 2022?: Black Bay 58, Pelagos & Submariner
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- čas přidán 5. 03. 2022
- Following my recent review of the most important releases of 2021, a comment on the video raised a really great question: Is Tudor still the best Swiss made automatic diver under $5000 in 2022? The Fortis Marinemaster, with essentially the same movement as the Tudor, costs more. So why do I consider it a good value? What are the differences between Tudor and Fortis? What affects value when it comes to watches of this pedigree? How has the market changed with the ever-rising prices of its bigger brother brand Rolex, and stiffer competition from Omega and their Seamasters, as well as competition from brands like Fortis, though smaller, but with just as much heritage? Does this threaten Tudor's reign and dominance in this price range? Join me as I borrow a contemporary Tudor Pelagos and a Black Bay 58 in blue, and compare them with my own vintage Tudor Submariner (79090) to find out the answer to all these questions and more, in this Tudor-rific special episode.
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#Watches #DiveWatch #Tudor - Jak na to + styl
Your clever switching of the BB58 for Bond's four digit Sub in the Goldfinger opening says it all. The Tudor feels very much like a proper Bond watch - a robust, extremely high quality, aesthetically pleasing and stylish tool watch. Every time I strap on my BB58, I can see and feel the DNA and provenance it has acquired from its ancestors in the Rolex and Tudor family. It is a brilliant watch.
They are a grail for me
Tudor watches aren't robust and definitely not extremely hight quality. They are very nice looking watches these days with great marketing and fair prices. Nothing more.
Thanks for the video my good chap. It’s refreshing not to be told what’s good or not, what to buy or not to buy, but rather, to be educated so as to make an informed decision.
And even more, to be inspired to continue the learning and keep diving down that rabbit hole.
Good stuff sir.
I appreciate your videos. It's a nice break from the realities of the world and news. Keep them coming :)
Another great video TGV, honest and to the point. I love the way you strip it all back to the nuts and bolts. It’s not just about the name on that watch face.
You have opened my eyes to the Fortis of this world as well as Yema, I could go on.
A dive watch is always high on any collectors list and we take note and respect your reviews on the time pieces in your video’s. Great to have the comparisons. Toodle-pip
Thank you for this effort of synthesis and precision of thought. I have evolved and learned so much since I starting following your channel (and Mark from Long Island). Now I want to discover Fortis. In the end, I think this is what CZcams should be. Not a collection of 3min ''unboxing'' video. Thank you again. Untill the next episode! Milles mercis de Montréal! Chapeau!
So many watches ...so little time.
Thank you for shedding light on lesser known but historically and presently relevant brands. While i own several timepieces it is only quite recently that i have taken an interest in the history quality craftsmanship and dare i say artistry of the wrist and pocket watch.
Your efforts and presentations are most appreciated and in part responsible for my awakening and for that i thank you !
As always - another brilliant vid mate ! Plus - enjoyed the “tangent” commentary - cheers !
Bringing a little joy to our Sunday nights. Great vid as always!!
Thank you so much, have a great week ahead!
Best regards,
TGV
Great video T! Learning more about this hobby daily thanks to content like this!
This is one of your best videos, TGV. I love how you took this topic of value head on. I think that value is definitely a perception, and as you said in the video, something someone else experiences with a Tudor (or other brand for that matter) might result in flipping the value around completely. Also for the record, I definitely think James Bond should have worn a Tudor. The British link is much more apparent with Tudor, in my opinion.
Always a great day when TGV uploads. That Tudor sub of yours really is beautiful. You make a very compelling argument for the value of Fortis. The aesthetics just don't do it for me personally, or maybe I'm biased (he says while wearing a bb58). Thanks for the awesome content.
Thank you TGV for your great show! Stay healthy everybody. Greetings from Munich. Compliments for Intro and sound effects.
Thank you my friend, I hope you are well and safe too.
Best regards,
TGV
Thank you TGV for this nice video, like always! 🙏🥂
So glad you covered this topic, and really enjoyed your perspective as always. It’s evident to me that you’re going to be adding the marine master sooner than later. I will be happy if you do, because for once I would have acquired a watch TGV covered before seeing a TGV video on it. Too many times it has been the other way around for me 😂 (Flighty, Sarbs, Sinn 104, the list goes on)
Thanks for this. I’ve only been in this game for a year but I’ve watched your channel from the start and you consistently champion the lesser known brands which often have wonderful time pieces that are worth considering.
I’m currently looking for a luxury tool watch and deciding between a black bay 58, speedmaster, IWC mark XVIII and because of you seriously considering a fortis F43 flieger. Please keep up the moral compass and work ethic
I just bought a 41mm Tudor black bay last month. I'm having a hard time not wearing it every day. I just don't care for the style of Fortis watches but can still appreciate he history and value. Speaking of value. I bought my son a Squale 1545... He opted for a watch vs senior ring which absolutely filled me with joy. $540 from Longisland watches. What a great watch for the price. I've owned a few Steinharts and a lorier and I have to say... Love Squlae. I see one in my future.
Hard not to like the Squale 1545. Bought the Maxi and broke down and bought the Militaire 3 months later. You will not regret.
Simply one of the coolest channels and that intro is just SO GOOD!
Thank you so much Michael, I deeply appreciate it. You made my day 🙏😎
Best regards,
TGV
Hi TGV, that was a great review, I purchased a BB58 39mm heritage back in November, and its quite simply amazing, thanks for advice before pulling the trigger, kind regards Dave.
Both brands are so far out of my current price range that some would think I have no interest in them but once again your method of exposition and beautiful arrangement enticed me to watch the whole video. I prefer the Tudors. I would be thrilled to find something from either brand sitting on my desk, though! The point is that there are real differences to consider, and now if the subject comes up I have something hopefully to contribute.
This is a great video, and long overdue, imho. Value is a huge issue for most of us and I appreciate your hitting it head on. “Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing,” is indeed an impoverished way to view life, yet balanced considerations of price and value are important. Thank you.
Another stellar video that's well presented and researched. I love Tudor and would love to add one to my personal collection someday.
Always great to come back to older videos. Keep up the high quality content TVG!
What is the intro song!
When I research a watch in which I have some interest I stop by UG Channel 1st and have purchased several watches based on your recommendation TGV. Thanks for what and how you impact our community!
Wish Tudor would bring back the Submariner at the price that it is really worth: under 4k
Me too, but they probably couldn't cope with the demand. Tudor can't make enough BB chronos as it is, so can you imagine the demand for a 4k or 5k 40mm Tudor Submariner? It would be crazy and would probably bite hard into the increasing prices of the gray Market that Rolex are going for with their own Sub. Would be great though if they did a Tudor Sub..... I would sign up for one for sure.
I agree 👍 but they won't because it would disrupt the Black bay line and I doubt Tudor would do that but a Tudor Submariner with no faux rivets or faux lume would be greatly appreciated
It won't happen. Tudor trying to distance itself from Rolex.
They did bring it back in a new flavour. It’s called Black Bay 58.
Thank you for another informative and very enjoyable episode! Its my way of getting a little education on horological matters.
Excellent content as usual TGV. I can see you have the Squale 1521 back, love it!
All best, Juan
Haha, indeed, I will be making a video on it before the ned of this money, it's a very special reunion.
Thank you JP.
Best regards,
TGV
I was waiting for 4k from TGV. Intro looks f'in rad.
What a great piece of content. 11/10
Great reviwe Last year i picked up a Tudor GMT and Last week i got the Special Harrods Edition witch is my Favorit watch !! nice greethings from Vienna
Great vid TGV!
I always appreciate how informative your watch videos are TGV, I enjoy hearing about brand history and impact on culture. Thank you.
Thank you so much, it motives me endlessly to hear that.
Onwards and upwards!
Best regards,
TGV
Seiko prospect LX limited spring dive is much more accurate it’s around the same money and Seiko have been going from around the 1890s
Great video. Thank you
What a great video brotha! That intro was epic 😂👏👏. No doubt that both brands resonate with watch enthusiast in different ways. I agree, it comes down to a connection you find. The power of Rolex no doubt has a HUGE! impact and influence when it comes to Tudor.
Tudor is my first love, I’m a dive watch fan and Tudor has perfected the dive watch in my opinion. Great product for the money by far and is respected by watch lovers and enthusiasts. I own the black bay heritage red bezel smiley dial and black bay heritage bronze with no regrets.
I am a very proud owner of a Fortis Chronograph Marinemaster and absolutely love the watch. Amazing history.
Good evening TGV, great topic, Divers are always more than welcome. And we have a great selection out there from reputable brands. Breitling Superocean Heritage, Longines Hydroconquqest, Sinn U1 or U50, the Seikos. But the Tudor Divers are very much unbeaten when it comes to style and heritage. The Glashütte Original SeaQ is over $5.000, but that Diver I is just perfect. Have a great weekend! Best regards!
Great subject and well thought out. The only true rival I could come up with would be the Oris Aquis 400 Caliber? Doesn’t have the history of Tudor but it’s a fine Swiss built timepiece that has its own style? Have a great week TGV and everyone
Another great video!! Thanks
Great video! I believe though the Sinn u2(tegemented submarine steel)is way more rugged than the Tudor for the price. But I love both watches & both are in my top 3 favorites.
There's definitely value in having something different that makes you smile bc in the end watches are worn in real life and not on paper! I have my beloved Pelagos, a BB58 Blue and a BB58 925 and while the BB58 blue might be the best watch for me on paper (clean aesthetic / incredible proportions), its the one thats going to be sold most likely! So i guess it depends on the individual whether or not the history and great/unique design of the fortis is worth the price vs a tudor.
Of course, the Pelagos and 925 are amazing beyond the stats on paper, but having an accurate in house movement with a 70 hour power reserve adds even more to their respective value propositions. Of course I might be a bit biased lol
Happy to see this. Just finished watching a 2020 Guy Richie movie called the Gentleman. If you have not seen it yet TGV I highly recommend it 👍 Happy Sunday wishing you a prosperous week ahead
what a fantastic video ,thanks !
Nice vid , Have to say i like every watch featured ,Personally the mk1 ETA Pelagos is a very good proposition
Excellent video T
Tudor's doing a smashing job the last half decade or so, and they have not one, but 4 candidates for my big milestone birthday watch purchase this year. I thought the Pelagos would be too thick, but then I put it on the wrist (7-1/4"/18.4cm) and it wore beautifully. I don't know if it's the Helium escape valve, combined with the light weight of the Titanium, but it doesn't seem as thick as the specs. The BB GMT also wears a bit better than the regular BB41, due to a slight upturn on the bottom of the sides of the case vs. the regular BB. I worry the BB58 would be too small feeling (I have watches that size, but no divers that small). However, I've only gotten to try them on strap, not the bracelet. I've not seen the new Chrono in person, but the black dial looks great in photos. I think Tudor has more models that appeal to me than Rolex. I think I am just more of a tool watch/less blingy type of guy, though I would take an Explorer II in a heartbeat. I think the new Fortis MarineMaster 40mm is quite nice, and I hope that sells well for them.
Cracking, spiffing, joyous and ALL of the positive adjectives!!
Grazie fratello!!!!
😎🥂
T.
A lot of good options from Tudor and I’ve had a number come and go. The Pelagos is a great dive watch, the Black Bay GMT is great for a true GMT watch at the price, the under recognized P01 I think may be a sleeper value once discontinued and even the 1926 line is great from a value perspective.
Wow. Great vid. I admit I have no experience with either brand, but I do understand the economies of scale argument regarding Fortis' higher price. Its the same advantage Seiko has over many competitors. Regardless, I kind of feel the Fortis is more my style than the Tudor with the waffle dial. Very handsome machine!
Very slick editing of Goldfinger!
Last year I got my oris aquis Green Dial 43.5 mm and I Love it!!!
I still cant decide, Blue or Black Pelagos? I've been pondering this for about 2 years now! Thanks for the Vid. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Go black
Thanks for pointing it out..I'm liking the Fortis Marine Master in slate Grey or Blue!
Mon Amie , impeccable felicitations , the choice of the gentleman through the generations
Great video.
Great video! Saludos Tristano!
Thank you Paulo!
Best regards,
TGV
Well done!!!
T, As you know I am great fan of Tudor watches. They represent decent quality for reasonable money. Very informative video as always.... Best as always. Matthew
Great video, i love my Blue Pelagos and my Black bay. The Pelagos has the modern tool’sh vibe. The black bay that classic style. Have you ever checked out Bremont watches? This would be a good one to have on the channel.
Great video as always sir. Being a fan of both Fortis and Tudor it would be a tough choice. However throughout my life I've always gone the opposite direction of popular, and have always valued the rarer. So would have to go for the Marinemaster in this one. But no doubt if you are lucky enough to have any of the 3 watches you will love it. 👍
I respect that, not sure why, but I respect that a great deal. It makes the watch feel more special when its not so obvious. I think that explains a lot of my choices, but then again, I'm still a sucker for all the classic icons too as you can see 🤣🙏 God hope me!
Thank you Chris,
Best regards,
TGV
Best way to end a Sunday!
For me the aesthetic of the Fortis range simply appeals more. I also greatly appreciate their strong history and independence. Another great documentary review 👏
Great video!
Hum, I like the Black Bay on Sean Connery’s wrist. 😎
Nice evolution !... and video editing. 😉
I own the Navy 58. I lapped up the hype, obsessed over it for months, patiently waited for my turn on the AD list, then eventually got one. Was it worth the wait, and the hype? Absolutely. Beautiful watch, still my favourite. Would I like a Pelagos as well? Yep. For me, as a Welshman, it’s having a Welsh name on my watch. I know that’s ridiculous. But old Hans did name the brand after the Tudor dynasty, and old Harry VII was a Welshman 🏴 So there, that’s my ludicrous reason for loving Tudor. 😃👍🏻
I’d love to see the new OO7 sport a Tudor.
Very interesting that you mention Moyer Jewelers. I live in Indianapolis and they are up on the north side in Carmel, IN.
Re: consistent styling clues - automakers are famous for this. A gradual evolution of style is usually followed versus shocking departures. The companies want customers (and non- customers) to know the brand. An example is the BMW double-kidney grill. The grill grows and shrinks - it gets fat and gets thin - but is always there! You know it's a Bimmer! Good vid. Keep at it!
Hey Tristano,
I remember your old Tudor Prince Day-Date that you used to wear on the red strap. I'm not a huge fan on Gold toned watches, but for whatever reason, that combo got me hooked on the design. If I were to buy one, I'd probably go for a silver or two-toned dial.
Stay safe! O&U!
Pound for pound the sports diver style Tudors are very hard to beat. My preference are the BB58s and the Pelagos.
Nope, sorry. Hey, I love both the BBs and the Pelagos, and own an ETA Tudor.BB Blue. But, they are not as good a watch as a Sinn EZM3. This is based on 7 years experience owning and servicing both.
@@stephenscharf6293 Leave it to the vote, 30 thumbs up says a lot, and remember I said hard to beat. There is more to a watch than just build quality. Monta make some very high quality pieces as well but still there is something missing as an example. I just had a quick look at a Sinn EZM3 and yes it looks appealing but not for me I will stick with my Tudors. I have two BB58s the black and the blue and recently sold my BB36 due to not wearing it enough, but the BB58s are keepers for sure unless Putin invades!
Both Sinn and Tudor are lovely
I'd pick the BB58 and the FXD
After watching that intro, I believe Tudor would be a great new bond watch. The black bay has the Bond vibe to it, especially with a nato strap.
Huge bond fan and I had to do a double take. Clever move TGV, great bud as always!
Perpetually Rolex Jr., I highly doubt Barbara Broccoli would ever allow the Bond franchise to awarded to Turdor
I think in these times of economic hardship a citizen NY-0040 would make a great bond watch
I think the new bond needs to dress a little more modern and like some of the craig outfits more function over style I would think in more business casual and in that scenario Hamilton, longiness and tissot could be a good bond watch, are from the same group of omega and can sell a lot of watches to the middle class.
@@ANM149 I agree more raid gear and long arms I.E assault rifles. Though Craig had changed bonds dress. Think what was worn in the first part of Casino Royale
Great video and content as usual TGV! Keep it up! Always looking forward to ur new postings.
Is the Facebook group dead? Been pending there for two weeks now. Love your channel 😁
Love the content, thank you for providing your thoughts on the brand. Could you share your thoughts on the Royal with us?
Great vid TGV, hi from the UK👍 What is the piece of music you use for your current intro please? I really like it.
I’ve had a couple black bays and a pelagos, but I keep coming back to Seiko
Your analysis is on point as always. The first thought I have when I see is a Tudor is “couldn’t take that wait for the real sub huh?” take care of yourself my friend, don’t work too hard.
Hmm I have the real sub & my Bb 58 Blue arrives tomorrow can’t wait! 😜
@@1466Ash then I will admit I’m jealous!
Although never have seen a Fortis in the metal, i have seen the Tudors in the metal, there are amazing. These two watch brands are really well made, engineered, and have history which should satisfy any watch enthusiasts. I feel purchasing watches at this level, i believe you will get your money's worth. I think either brand you could have on your wrist for decades and either watch will prove it's worth. So i say go and purchase at the authorized dealer, grin and bear it when they hand you the bill, and begin your journey with your "forever watch" .
You're making great videos as always. I'll take issue with lumping Breitling in with entry level Swiss watches. A Breitling Colt, Avenger, or Superocean is every bit the watch a Tudor or Rolex Submariner is, in everyday use, robustness, accuracy, looks -- for prices around 1/5 as high. You could point out a few advantages in the movements, such as higher power reserve, full balance bridge, etc, but as I say, in everyday use... I have yet to know anyone who that has made a difference to.
Interesting point
I was thinking if I should buy 100 Vostoks or 1 Tudor and this video changed my mind, cheers
Hi TGV! Thank you for reviving my passion for watches... I particularly enjoy the new options I come to know by your videos with Mark. I have a 14 piece watch collection with a limit per watch of $600 and a max of 24 pieces, well balanced in terms of styles and features, Casio, Tissot, Seiko, Timex, among others carefully selected by quality and value. I also buy watches for one of my daughters who is 12 and likes them a lot like me, she has her first 5 pieces and also buy for my wife and my mom! Again thanks for sharing your passion and help me with inspiration for my own!
I would go with Omega Seamaster Neckton or a Breitling Super ocean. I get can into the Black bays at all and there so thick but if they made them like the Tudor Submariners I be totally down but that won't happen. Great video pizan as always 🇮🇹
I'm really still in love with my Seiko SRPD09 Save the ocean that's about 3 years old now TGV. So I watched this video with interest. And went out today and bought an Omega Seamaster with the grey dial and blue strap. I know I've craved said watch for a while but if you can explain my decision today after watching this upload please do!
I see you got another blue shark!!! How you like the new bracelet for the sub39? Congrats!!! I Just got done watching the Tudors- Love the costume and scenery! You watch it ? Thanks for the video !
Hi I enjoy all your videos, I was wondering If you could help me out on where you get those books on the history on watches I would love to read through something like that
Handled a few Norqain watches today, I'd include them in this conversation for sure.
Thanks for sharing. While I love the looks of both brands it's just not something I see pursuing. I play in the low end for fun. In fact just picked up a nh35 movement and likely going to grab a field watch style case. I'm thinking about sandblasting the case and applying dark gray or perhaps dark khaki cerakote , or perhaps a combination of both, to make a watch that's just mine. However, the Fortis is quite tempting.
With that sound for the outro you had me staring at my dw-5600 for sometime figuring out why it would suddenly beep.
I have a blue Pelagos and I’m very much satisfied with it! You know, whenever I get to mention I have a watch collection (not very often..) most people immediately respond with “(do) you have a Rolex?”, and I reflexively answer “NO. And I won’t wear one”. And That recurring question is part of what drives me way away from Rolex. Right after me answering like that, the conversation just dies off… sometimes there are polite people who will ask one or two follow up questions.. and once in a Gazilion years it will actually interests someone and I’ll be like a child who found a friend that really likes the same favorite toy🤗.
I like pretty much everything but I’ve always had a soft spot for Oris.
Hey TGV,
Great video! I’ve been looking for that Fifty Watches that changed the World book with no luck. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Omega Seamaster is pretty compelling buy under 5k as well. I did see one on the wrist of a British Army Sniper who turned out to be a watch geek like myself when I was deployed. We geeked out over each others watchs (his a Pelagos mine a MkII Paradive.
He wore the Seamaster while deployed?
@@dspserpico No, the Tudor.
Tudor is an excellent brand and extremely good value, in some cases the price of a Tudor makes it my preferred option over Rolex. As an owner of both brand Tudor pips Rolex mainly in the entry level Swiss luxury watches due to the premium and unwarranted waiting period. Nice productionTGB.
Blackbays with common as dirt ETA calibres are not great value, in fact they are Grossly overpriced compared to the plethora of other ETA powered watches.
@@r0ky_M BB aren't fitted with ETA'S.
@@kbarnbrook4993
Then you have something to learn about BB.
Heck I'm glad the hype is a little down now. I was able to finally pick up a blue heritage BB for about $3k and it's been on my wrist nonstop the past 2 weeks. I remember lusting after these a few years ago but finally had the funds to pull the trigger and couldn't be happier. It's such a quality tool watch for the money
great review..I'll take my lhd pelagos over any diver ..great spec ..with a vintage nod ..roulette date wheel ..aged lume ..red typo on the dial ..a nod back.to the 1st rolex ..tudor divers ..and one of the best brackets ..clasps ever
hard to beat at any price points
It’s the old case of horses for courses, whatever you like, not everyone likes the Tudor, some say it’s a bit boring or classic design where the Fortis is a bit more modern or unique design
Great review as always 👍
Another great video. I do have a question about my Tudor Heritage’s value. Do you think it will ever gain? Perhaps something to hold on to give to my son later? Or just enjoy it now and wear it without hesitation? Thank you in advance.
I think there are two points here. On the one hand what is "best" for one person is not "best" for someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is a purely personal choice. On the other hand, you summed it up beautifully when you said "The mastery of watchmaking has been directly incorporated into the proprietary made, chronometer level, movements we see in these contemporary Tudors". Thus on a technical level an argument can be made for what might be considered "best". To use an analogy, in Formula One Ferrari are "best" to many people because of their heritage and passion, but few would consider they have had the technically "best" car on the grid in recent years.
Personally I love my Black Bay, but did not just buy it blind - I tried several different watches from different manufacturers and ultimately made that "personal" choice.
Sorry for the wall of text but you raise an interesting dichotomy.
Great video. More available then Tudor too. I found fortis watches on Amazon
You mentioned Doxa toward the end of the video. I just googled "urban gentry doxa" two days ago, and it looks like you don't have any recent videos. Do you think you could make a video about the Doxa Sub 300/Sub 300T? I'm thinking it'll be my next watch; a review from you would help!
I got the Blue BB58 after you did a video on it. Awesome watch and best value for the cost I think but I just find myself missing my GMT every time i wear it.
If the bracelet had a micro adjust and it had a date function I think I'd enjoy it more
I totally agree on the micro adjustment, I wish it had the same instantly adjustable clasp like the Pelagos.
Thank you my friend, enjoy your BB regardless, it's pure class none the less.
Best regards,
TGV
Ive had my Pelagos Black for a month now and like it more than the day I bought it, it took me 3 months to make the decision. I like it so much because it was free, I sold a Ceramic date Sub and a OP 36mm white dial and with the profit got the Pelagos and some significant change. The Pelagos to me is what the Sub used to be, a functional steel tool watch, that isn't steel.
Im lucky to have been able to buy a Sub (from an AD) and sell at grey market silly prices a year or so latter. The Pelagos won't appreciate like the Rolex but I can wear it without being concerned about unwanted attention.