@@GirlNextGondor I think the actual problem Saruman had was that he was too aloof and had a growing superiority complex when it came to dealing with all those less than him, while at the same time becoming increasingly jealous of Gandalf. How Saruman could get away with this unnoticed when you have great telepathic beings like Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond is beyond me- but hey if Morgoth could fake atonement before the Valar then I'm certain Saruman can put on a brave face and conceal his true desires.
One of the qualities that should be more celebrated about LotR is how it shows how petty and boring real evil is. Those traits can't be separated from the more romanticized qualities of ambition or terror. It's a brilliant thematic move 😭 gets me every time....
@@GirlNextGondor this analysis of evil gives me hope for the world, generally. I’m putting this one in my back pocket. Love your work! Please keep it up.
Another thing I've noted with most of Tolkien's villains is that, at one or multiple points they are given the chance to repent. And they often know that they should, yet at the last minute they renege because of their self righteousness
Definitely - I suspect this was at least partly by design - Tolkien seemed to love the dramatic potential of that moment when a character is on the very cusp of repentance, however it was resolved. Repentance would make another great topic to explore!
@@GirlNextGondor It would! I can only think of three instances of repentance and two of those come too late, but the one success is one of the ways to achieve Eru Ilúvatar's goal of creating things more wonderful than their maker intended.
@@beatleblev "Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and he will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth." Too late or not?
Sauron is one of my favourite villains, like a blacksmith he views creation as something to be hammered into shape, bent into something structured, ordered and beautiful. As such, imperfections aren’t to be tolerated for they corrupt and weaken the pure design. The imperfections being chaos and disorder, which he wants to stamp out because it’s the only thing he *can’t* control. Sauron motivation in that sense, is an extremely human one. He wants to remove the uncertainty and sheer terror the next day will bring something terrible and unpredictable. And he does this through iron fisted control of everything he can get his hands on, refusing to accept that there are simply things in life that cannot be controlled, predicted or prevented.
I can only imagine how frustrated Sauron must have been with the elves and men. If only they had listened to him, if only they had obeyed, everything would have been perfect. Surely once his plans had reached fruition the elves and men that were still around would agree that it was all worth it, that _any_ means are justified if the end is infinitely good?
When the Elves takes off their rings to avoid being ruled he feels so so offended and hurt and betrayed and wounded! like they think they are somehow better than him!
I think the key phrase here is "that were still around." Like, of course the ones who were still around would agree... because the ones who foolishly persisted in disagreeing, would no longer be around. QED. I know Tolkien's all hyping Sauron's black anger at the failure of his plan, but... it always seemed to me that he wasn't just angry, but *hurt* that no one wanted to use his Rings that he worked SO HARD ON, and yes they subject you all to my domination but I promise I'll be a benevolent ruler, and certainly more organized than YOU, Mr. I-Can't-Remember-Where-I-Bestowed-Vilya!
@@GirlNextGondor I don't think he had any self-righteous or sincere pretence to be a benevolent ruler, if he had it would be a ruse. Wounded pride would fuel the hatred further and the desire to dominate is the only thing that's left. Yes you're entirely correct that evil is not absolute in Tolkien's imagination but rather a progression from something like acting out one's afflictive emotions to a state of being more or less pure evil. The question remains could is there still something within Morgoth and Sauron that is redeemable? Tolkien didn't give an answer to that it seems.
@@maxion5109 I mean by the end of the third age after having his physical body destroyed AGAIN i'm pretty sure he can't lie even to himself. But before that he may have had utopian goals, and horrific means.
I agree, it is clear for everyone to see that a lot of research and thought went into every single one of your analysises. I really appreciate your work
I love the idea of evil being the lack of good, having no value or reality of its own. Good is what's real and evil is what isn't, and can never be. And none of us is wholly good or evil- "Wickedness, when you examine it, turns out to be the pursuit of some good, in the wrong way." C.S. Lewis
‘As a shadow Melkor did not then conceive himself. For in his beginning he loves and desired light, and the form that he took was exceedingly bright; and he said in his heart: ‘On such brightness as I am the Children shall hardly endure to look; therefore to know of aught else or beyond or even to strain their small minds to conceive of it would not be for their good.’ But a lesser brightness that stands before the greater becomes darkness. And Melkor was jealous, therefore, of all other brightness, and wished to take all light unto himself.’
Melkor is the ultimate Niceguy. Also, i feel Tolkien operated on the premise that goodness is inherent whereas evil is always a choice, so every evil action is a choice, but left to their most basic selves at least the Ainur would do only good things.
Ooh, I really like that way of putting it - or at the very least, choices that are harmful but made unconsciously are redeemable. Aule is the obvious example - he knew he wasn't really *supposed* to be making Dwarves, but he didn't will or even fully recognize the possible consequences, so of course he repents as soon as he figures out the magnitude of his actions, and Dwarves become something that was 'good to have been' even though they weren't part of the original plan. Poor Melkor (not really): "I'm a nice enough guy, why won't everyone worship me like the god I almost-am?"
@@GirlNextGondor yes this is exactly why there's sympathy for some sons of Feanor but not others. No one could know the impact of the oath, and we don't even know how compelling the oath was, but abducting a woman to coerce her into marriage or being so hateful your attendants think it's okay to abandon kids in the forest are choices.
I would rather say that Sauron is more of a Niceguy than Melkor, because he paints himself as a good, benevolent person like "How DARE this ungratefull people not give My the position of godking of middle earth, even when I would make everything great!"
What? Kindly lookup what "nice" means......agreeable, pleasant, good natured, delightful. Melkor is NONE of these........contrary, defiant, disobedient, and destructive from square 1. Goodness is NOT inherent, but is conditional and is the absence of harm & death (evil), and sin (disobedience to God/Eru). Melkor's "basic" expression was to sin, i.e. be defiant and go his own way. Death and evil entered man's world BECAUSE he sinned (so says the Bible); because he was NOT originally granted complete knowledge (of good and evil), he was playing a rigged game where it was too easy to choose poorly. All who followed suffered because of this "choice". Jesus was made and joined the Lower Than the Angels Team so that he could taste death and be raised to glory. Satan, demons, and the JRRT bad-boys do not (apparently) ever possess any redemption green stamps. Aule sinned and constructed creatures that did evil, but he admitted his sin and (presumably) was pardoned and redeemed. Melkor and Sauron (and Saruman, too, come to think of it), never repented, never admitted error, and (I would guess) were never redeemed. Hitler, Jeff Daumer, and sociopaths/psychopaths everywhere never seem to repent or be capable of it. Perhaps orcs are all twisted/manufactured sociopaths and CANNOT be capable of repentance/redemption. I wonder about that Feanor dude, too. Lots of pride and anger, NO meekness.
@@GirlNextGondor😮 I am speechless - so here is a written message. Wonderful insight into Tolkien's insight into the parasitic nature of evil on the goodness of existence! So well and humorously expressed! Surely you are fair, yet terrible as a host in battle array?
I think Lexi is right about Morgoth. I never thought about what he would have done had the Valar and their army not intervened to take him down. He certainly would have wanted the death of everyone and the destruction of everything. He would have had the orcs kill each other in the end because after all they were originally part of Eru's Children and that is enough for him to eventually desire their extinction.
To expand on your anecdote about bronze medalists often being happier than silver medalists: in some team sports like ice hockey, the tournament format dictates that a team must *win* a match for the bronze medal, but a team *loses* the gold-medal match to 'win' the silver... Imma slap that like button like it's a puck being slapshotted into the back of the net in overtime to bring home the gold medal!
On my first or second reading of LotR (1965 or 1966) I was much impressed by Gandalf's statement that Sauron, being evil, would not be able to conceive that anyone who had the Ring could want to destroy it. I summarized this to myself as "good can understand evil but evil can't understand good," and I associated it with the idea that evil can't create new things of its own. Later, when I first read the Silmarillion, I was started to find, near the end of chap. 6, "For Manwe was free from evil and could not comprehend it ... and he saw not to the depths of Melkor's heart." Do you share my feeling that this last quote is hard to fit in with most of what Tolkien says on the subject?
Excellent take. Those were my exact thoughts on it when I first read through. It’s another direct mirroring of Biblical concepts Tolkien used as foundation for the world he created.
Manwë was so good, that he was beyond comprehension of evil. Beings like Gandalf or anything less than the Valar would be more capable of falling into evil. For Gandalf to turn evil was more possible than for Manwë to turn evil, that's why Gandalf could still see deeper into the very heart of evil than Manwë could. It's not contradictory to what Tolkien says. Gandalf for example is very aware that the One Ring would turn him into something terrible, Manwë is so far removed from the capacity of doing evil that he can not even truly understand evil.
It fascinates me that, though evil may begin from different roots, it all grows into the same bitter, twisted plant, whereas the forces of good are always expanding and growing into something greater.
Kipling's quote (Wimbledon) about triumph and disaster being the same imposter applies to good and evil. Both have the same growth and expansion........fields of lush crops or rank weeds; it's all in your perception.
Can I just say how supremely cool of you it is to put artist credit *on screen* with each image instead of a nebulous ‘artist credit below’ or something? Anyway, new subscriber here, and I’m SO happy I found your channel. Looking forward to the rest of your hard work!
"From splendour he fell through arrogance to contempt for all things save himself, a spirit wasteful and pitiless. Understanding he turned to subtlety in perverting to his own will all that he would use, until he became a liar without shame. He began with the desire of Light, but when he could not possess it for himself alone, he descended through fire and wrath into a great burning, down into Darkness. And darkness he used most in his evil works upon Arda, and filled it with fear for all living things" (The Silmarillion, The Valaquenta) "Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void" (The Silmarillion, The Valaquenta) "And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he." (Unfinished Tales, The Istari) I can't put my finger on it, but Tolkien's descriptions of the ends of his Dark Lords are some of my favorite passages in the Legendarium. The last one sums up the process of corruption succinctly. First comes pride, then impatience, then the grasp for power at any cost, and finally getting your own way through the use of force. Whether it is the Secret Fire, instant organization, or getting the respect you deserve and the power you are due, all of these foes have a need that could only be met by interaction and cooperation. Of course, none of these beings collaborate (like a certain fiery Noldo from a previous video) and won't be on a team they can't lead and dominate. The ends for these fallen Ainur are similar as well in their mind-numbing misery, either as a prisoner in the Void, or as a powerless shade of malice on the wind.
Agreed - he does a great job of making them sinister and chilling, but also hinting at the futility of their efforts. That "walked behind him on the same ruinous path" is such a good image.
Curumo's flaws began to show up even as soon as the council of the Valar that selected who the Istari would be happened. It's curious that none of the Valar picked up on Curumo's pride being wounded when Olórin was added to say nothing of the contempt in which he held Aiwendil. Then again, they often missed signs that all was not right with certain beings. I wonder what Sauron would have done had Morgoth not been defeated in the War of Wrath or at any later point. At a certain point, Morgoth's desire to destroy the world would have become clear to Sauron. If Morgoth had his way, there would be no world to bring order and efficiency to and perhaps in the end Morgoth would have sought to destroy his Maia servants, Sauron included.
When reading the silmarillion I often imagined, how frustrated Saurons was with Morgoths chaotic nature. I don't think this relationship was harmonious, just Morgoths was way more powerful.
@@MrX-nv8kp I imagine you are right. Sauron was enamored of Morgoth's straightforward approach to "solving problems" but I often think Sauron was tasked with implementing many of Morgoth's ideas and would have found that frustrating.
I never realized that critical difference between Morgoth and Sauron. Strange how he was both a very different dark lord and exactly the same (i.e. a dark lord)
If I was FORCED to live under the dominion of one or the other, I'd choose Sauron. A functioning bureaucracy, plentiful food, impeccable aesthetics, and no risk of half a mountain range being randomly destroyed 'for teh lulz'. Also he has the good sense to leave the spiders well enough alone.
@@GirlNextGondor but wasn't he also a perfectionist to the extreme? To the point where if you fell short for even a moment by even a fraction of his standards for order, he'd smite you?
@@an-animal-lover I mean yeah but she said that if she was forced to choose, it would be Sauron and not Morgoth. Because Sauron may be a perfectionist who would have you killed for the slightest offense... but Morgoth will have you killed anyway because the fact that you are not of his creation already offends him.
An important point about Saruman. He was the leader charged with defeating Sauron. He spends most of his time "studying the devices of Sauron". At some point this turns into envy and admiration of Sauron and his methods, and he starts copying Saurons methods. Then he concludes that Sauron is unassailable without the one ring. Saruman then focuses on capturing the one ring to defeat Sauron or failing that an alliance wiht Sauron in order to control Sauron and Middle Earth. Notice what Gandalf the white says: Indeed i am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been".
Saruman was actually trapped by Sauron by using the palantir. His true motivation is then fear, and fighting to get out of that trap alive, while being coerced to build a copy of Sauron's system. In that, probably mental, trap his objective was then to beat Sauron with Sauron's own weapons.
Melkor acts with the motivation to destroy the existing, and Sauron with the motivation to control and order the existing. Considering the relationship between Melkor and Sauron, this difference seems like a contradiction, but as mentioned in the video, motivation is a situation that is shaped by time and space.
Were it not for the War of Wrath, I think there would inevitably have been a situation where Sauron took over, whether by betraying Morgoth or just by being more and more responsible for daily operations until Morgoth was effectively a figurehead. As it stands, Sauron got the liberty to pursue his very own agenda soon enough 😆
@@GirlNextGondor According to your opinion, Sauron can take a position according to the developing conjuncture. In this context, it is theoretically possible to conflict with Melkor.
Tolkien wrote such interesting villains. Looking forward to more in this series as well as evil within the other sentient beings and incarnates. I'd be really interested in hearing about dragons, balrogs, and orcs! :)
Great analysis. Got some interesting tidbits I hadn't had before, like Saruman attempting to craft a ring of his own. I always thought it strange that a band of metal can be used to such incredible ends, but I suppose a ring is more than a metal band. It is more like a category of power amplifiers so to speak. Sauron's twist was in tainting his rings to subjugate the will of its bearer to Sauron. Celebrimbor made the three elven rings without that taint, so they served their intended function of amplifying the bearer's power. Saruman not being able to create a ring means he is lacking critical knowledge of amplifying the bearer's power.
Sauron definitely had the edge in Ring-lore, which I suspect is due to his direct tutelage under Morgoth, who kind of pioneered the whole power-externalization field 😆
Love the in depth compare/contrast of the three big bads. It really highlights the point that no matter how it begins, evil always leads in the same direction.
I would argue that Sauron was originally the most power of Maiar, his true name Mairon meaning 'The Admired or Admirable or Adored' and given Melkor's own name means something along the lines of 'He who rises in might' and was the most powerful Valar at first. Well, Tolkien has shown himself to be very deliberate with the naming conventions in his works.
"The coolest people are gonna be assholes if you pit them on a freaking pedistal, geniuses" -Tolkien, in a nutshell. Also, Fëanor rapresents this for the Elves as well.
Given that Melkor and Mairon NEVER had any girlfriends, are you slyly suggesting that JRRT was making a case for these two being gay for each other? By Jove, I wonder if you have something here?
Melkor courted Elbereth and lusted after Lúthien. Sauron was just asexual, he probably saw the idea of “sex for pleasure” as nothing more than a waste of time and energy.
Thanks....I don't think I ever knew that Melkor chased after Elbereth. Guess she could smell a rat when around one. I assumed Morgoth was simply twisted and possibly gay adjacent or even trans (pronouns not declared other than She-King-It).@@dllps
As a dad with 4 daughters, allow me to say how wonderful it is to have a strong and knowledgeable female voice in Tolkienien scholarship. Keep up the good work, lass, this is a very interesting and in depth channel.
I like the other Tolkien channels, of course, but I think in people who have read many of the books there is a hunger for deeper meditations and comparative analysis. The majority of other CZcams videos seem to merely regurgitate stories and lore from the books, I’ve found. Which of course is important and good. But I think there is a perfect niche for this content! And all the pictures add so much to the experience. Really loving it all & can’t wait to see what you come out with next.
Yes! I also have to say that I appreciate the quiet, irreverent but never gratuitous humor that accompanies the analysis. If anything I would love a little bit more light content, although the one episode who completely changed my view of Tolkien was the one about the Shire as a… shall we call it an ambiguous utopia?
Amazing video, I love hearing about the villains!! It always does annoy me when people accuse Tolkien's characters or bing too black and white, because for the most part they're all somewhat good and somewhat evil (although not all, I don't think Sam for instance has any 'evil' qualities, just some negative ones) and especially if you take characters from the Silmarillion into account, most all of them are pretty complex
How long do you think it took Saruman realize that Cirdan had given Gandalf one of the Three? That must have become the most burning of wounds to him, as the centuries passed.
One of the things we learn in childhood is how to cope with frustration. These three might have done better if they had started out as children and had that learning experience. Though most of their peers didn't seem to need it as much. Anyway, as usual a very interesting video. Thank you!
Yep, you pretty much summed it up 😉 different factors push them each to that point, but where they go from misguided or frustrated to outright Evil is when they decide their plan is not only the best plan, but the only one that can be permitted to exist. It's all very much downhill from there....
Lexi, you've become an expert in creating videos: In finding art which fits best to your script; in supplying all the bibliography for quotes, images and references; in mixing the sound, so that all decibels grant perfect listening experience; in the smoothest script delivery; and in creating an atmosphere both calming and engaging. *Here I enter a 80 speech in Quenya , which concludes in 'the end goal would be to build a city state with not 7, but 17 gates, dedicated to Lexi' *. Anyone who truly wants to learn about the legendarium should begin with your content. The depth of your understanding comes from a scholar level of a reader. I do think that evil is a choice and something some have to maintain. Almost brainwash yourself until you are lost and cross all boundaries. Envy and a sense of superiority get worse when you have the means to asset your will without close to utmost certainty. But when there is a greater good above all else, this evil cannot truly prevail and is ultimately finite.
Thank you so much! It did not come naturally 😅 as earlier videos could attest. I think one of the awful paradoxes of evil is how it weakens your ability to choose another option, but also makes you too proud to recognize (or admit) the damage that's been done.
Ur literally one of the only people on CZcamsrs who delve deeper into the themes of lotr and have a unique understanding of the definitions of power and potential and I'm addicted to ur videos bcuz of it! Luv hearing about the implications of existential power and dominion over the earth b4 bed
Thank you for dealing with this topic! I see many times that people see Evil in Tolkien's works as something necessary, as pure manicheism. And that is SO concerning, because it is completely the opposite and it really affects the reader's mind-set! I'm an admin in Tolkien Gateway, and we were recently discussing about making an article on this important topic. I'll put a link to this nice video if we ever get into that.
I owe a tremendous debt to Tolkien Gateway 💖 thank you all for your tireless labor and glorious citations! I am also so relieved to learn I am not the only one worried that the manichees are winning every time I see someone characterize a Tolkien narrative as 'an epic conflict between the forces of Light and Darkness.' Or, for instance, when a certain ore is said to have 'a power as pure and light as Good; as strong and unyielding as Evil.' (I may, however, be the only person to have nearly choked to death after screaming 'That's (expletive) DUALISM, you sick (expletive)s !' through a mouthful of popcorn.)
Surprised to see so little subscribers so far, this channel has potential to be top 3 lotr themed channels alongside nerd of the rings and men of the west, you certainly got my vote
So good. I love how watching these videos gives me such an appreciation for Tolkien's work and how many truths there are about the human condition in his writing! Excellent analysis.
💓 I love to spread the apprecation. And just when I think I've got a pretty good handle on the metaphysics and I know where he's going with these themes, I uncover some new connection or dimension that makes me go🤯. One of the reasons why lit analysis in general is so endlessly fun, if the book is any good there's always going to be a new angle to find!
I have heard you as a guest on other channels and recently listened to two of your own episodes. You are a delight! You have a unique take and are well reasoned and easy to follow. I hope you become as popular as In Deep Geek and others of his ilk.
Also thank you so much for adding credits for the artwork here. I've wanted to purchase prints of many of these images but was never able to easily find who made them!
The way you speak and break down these ideas is amazing. Thank you. No idea what else you do but u have an amazing ability to put together and express vast sometimes vagues ideas in and entertaining and cohesive way. Thank you again u rock
Fantastic video! "Evil" leaders in Tolkien have such complex histories and outlooks. And seeing these quotes make me really want to get my hands on a copy of Morgoth's Ring :3
Thank you! Morgoth's Ring is well worth a look if only for skimming through the "Myths Transformed" section and seeing what a different direction Tolkien was considering taking things. Lots of fun bits about Orcs and Eagles and such too.
Just recently found this channel and greatly enjoy these videos. Kudos for giving the artists’ credits on screen. Comparing their motives/corruption, I wonder how Sauron and Morgoth’s relationship worked? Sauron’s loyalty to Melkor seems to be build on a belief in Melkor’s status as the mightiest force in Arda, but their goals seem completely antithetical: Sauron wants a well-structured, smoothly running world, but Melkor wants to destroy anything that isn’t purely of his own creation, so how does Sauron see himself fitting into Melkor’s goals? Did he secretly think that Melkor would not be able to achieve his end goal? Did Sauron think that once Melkor has destroyed Arda, Sauron would have the opportunity to start from scratch on his own?
I really like your take on Morgoth not being wholly evil and probably not considering himself evil at all. I've always thought that the Balrogs were likely more evil than even Morgoth was, because at least Morgoth desires some sort of rebellious freedom and other aspirations to create. The Balrogs just seem like underlings who saw him search the void and said "oh that looks fun" and followed him just for the sake of wanting power. The Balrogs really aren't all that powerful considering what they actually are, just rather simple spirits of fire who spent all their strength in Udun taking on terrifying physical forms. More of reckless violent idiots rather than powerful masterminds of darkness. I think that's much more evil than most things Morgoth ever did, or Sauron, unless he's the one who killed all the Entwives (😭)
What an incredible video! I was always intrigued by the fact that the desire of creation ended up in lust for dominance, even more when that desire was pure hearted and actually creation is a divine and "good thing" in itself...
Tolkien has been the Jimminy Cricket on my shoulder, taking me to task, for prideful thinking, for many years, in a way that state sanctioned religions and spiritual practices never manage to. What an achievement, for a work of fiction.
Thank you! I was stumped for a moment by motivation, because of course they all *want* the same thing in the end... but at least at first they all have different reasons for wanting it.
Great stuff as ever. The comparison between these three, helps to illuminate Tolkiens ideas on evil. I am sure Saruman was the best man for the job, like the job of ringbearer it is too much for anyone. Gandalf himself gives many good examples of why he is a bad leader, but a great inspirer. Once again you have inspired me to smash that like button, as Morgoth tried to smash all his enemies. Thanks GNG and keep up the good work.
Very good channel you're up there with the best of them!! Nerd of the rings and broken sword right now are my favorites. But there's absolutely no reason I won't be listening to you as much as I do them. It's definitely a different perspective the way you put it. I find it very enlightening and entertaining so thank you very much
So glad to hear you enjoyed it! I think it's neat that there's so many different Tolkien channels that all bring a different take to the story, I never run out of stuff to watch 😁
Morgoth: the cosmic toddler that ruined everything. Saruman too is an especially is a pathetic shadow of his former self by the end of ROTK. I think the quantity he lacks that Gandalf has in spades could be paraphrased as "common sense" or perhaps "basic social skills."
I believe I understand Saruman more than I understand the other two. If Saruman just sat on his a** and did nothing, he would have won. If he hadn't betrayed the "good", that's an easy victory. If he didn't betrayed Sauron too, then the Nazgul catch Frodo, and again, easy victory. So what was his motivation. He didn't want to share the victory. He wanted to win ALONE. He wanted the others to lose as much as he wanted to win. And there is a tiny bit of ego. A small amount. He thought there was a chance to win while playing against everyone else. Which would have been a huge achievement. That's partly why he had to investigate the Shire, try to make a ring, and so on. It is so difficult to fight both the good, and Sauron, he couldn't allow himself any mistakes.
Thank you! Glad to see you got a kick out of it. 💗 Tolkien is, I think, surprisingly merciful toward his human villains; without glossing over their faults he generally suggests some extenuating circumstances or flawed-but-understandable perspectives that drive them to their misdeeds. But Valar and Maiar don't generally have those excuses 😆
Well met Squad Leader! Keep up the great work Mellon! I'm always enlightened, informed, and entertained by you analysis. House Storm Crow stands proudly with this squad. p.s. if you see any orcs....tell em I says, ECTHELION!!
You just made me have a mental breakthrough. Tolkien's view of evil being a privation of good ties back to St. Augustine's views on the topic and then the discussion of evil as boring of course brings to mind Hannah Arendt and her concept of the banality of evil. Arendt's dissertation was on St. Augustine and I had never put together how closely tied together the privation theory of evil is to the concept of the banality of evil. It's so obvious but I only put the pieces together now.
Great video, really appreciate how contemplative you are Lexi, about the lore, and am now pondering about the nature of Tolkien's statement regarding evil. Though now I'm stuck with the mental image of Melkor as a kitten striking at a piece of string. As to Sauron, the fact that he believes wholly in his own actions being justified is a terrifying element of his character. As this trend towards self-justification and savage cruelty is a horrid combination and could lead to countless mad misdeeds. Can't help but think that Saruman is the most tragic of the trio, given that he once had the most passion for good wishing truly to help by sacrificing for the greater good only to fall to madness.
I wonder was it JRRT's intention to create a lore with characters that we could see ourselves in and learn lessons from? He has the benefit of a thousand more years of literature to draw on to tell similar stories as church, but in a way that is more relatable. Your lessons seem very applicable, thank you.
I would say that is very likely on three fronts at least. 1) Tolkien desired to give England a mythology of its own that could be passed down. Thus education to a certain extent would have been the goal. 2) Tolkien was a solid practitioner of Roman Catholicism and as such would have seen the value in teaching people the ways of God, or perhaps the right and proper way in which to live. 3) Tolkien was by his own chosen profession an educator and to this spent his life in dedication. I believe these created a threefold instinct in him that heavily influenced his writing and worldbuilding.
I love your analysis. It's one of the saddest things to see all the characters turn to evil without realizing it. I remember in your Sauron character rehab video (which was spectacular) how you discussed this whole motives of evil concept but used Sauron as the example. It's great to see a comparison between all the different main evils especially Sauron and Morgoth. However, I do have one question: during the fall of Numinor when Sauron set up the temple of Morgoth did he not proclaim himself as Morgoth returned? In that way would he not have claimed himself as greater than Eru also? It doesn't quite make sense with his original motives, but it's still a thing.
As I recall, Tolkien says (probably somewhere in Letters) that Sauron didn't take up the "Morgoth returned" masquerade until the Third Age, not in Numenor.
"What do you despise? By this you are truly known." --Frank Herbert Although this statement has its limits, I generally agree with it. In my interpretation, evil people can love good things, but good people cannot love evil things.
I think I agree if we're distinguishing 'things' from 'people.' To love something you have to find something worthwhile or admirable in it - so you couldn't really love a totally evil act or quality like murder or cowardice. But I would think the capacity to love a *person* whose deeds you deem evil would be more common among good people than bad ones.
Excellent video, as always! I love that you incorporate every book Tolkien wrote (including the HoME series!) and don't just to LotR, The Silmarilion etc. You go really deep and arouse some thought provoking questions, instead of just covering lore. On a similar note, maybe you would consider doing a series where you cover the earliest versions of the Legendarium (The BoLT, the Lays of Beleriand and suchlike). I love the old tale of the Sun and Moon, the Óllorë Mallë, The Cottage of Lost Play, but most Tolkien channels (even really good ones like Tolkien Lore and Men of the West) rarely, if ever, discuss those topics. Again, great video, and I hope you have a good day!
This "Sacred fire" is also known as an individual virtue. A fire (metaphor) that burns within good and virtuous individuals to resist, fight and overcome the forces of evil. This might be explained as personal innate pure courage and bravery rather than a literal actual fire. Those that possess it are the ones who stand against seemingly impossible odds when all others would run and unite to resist the evils of others. This I feel was apparent and obvious to Tolkien himself when he was both an observer and participant in the catastrophic events of WWI. He was witness to evil, those that commit it and those that ran from it. He saw in people the potential to commit great evil but also the courage and bravery of those to stand and fight against it. Those blinded by pure evil thoughts cannot fathom why people would dare to stand against and resist their desire to commit evil. They see these individuals as stubborn and their feats of courage and bravery as being futile. However, when these individuals triumph against all odds it frustrates, angers and infuriates these powerful evil beings. The ironic thing in all of this is that Melkor/Morgoth, Sauron, and Saruman never understood and were oblivious to the fact that the "sacred fire" was manifest within the hearts and minds of all of their adversaries that thwarted their evil plans. What these evil leaders sort most was hidden right before their very eyes.
Your videos really stand out among all the channels on LOTR lore. Nobody does as much research as you, and I truly appreciate your grasp on both minute details and their function within the most sweeping themes. You really scratch that intellectual itch for meaningfulness, and it's obvious that you aren't doing this just to churn out content.
I am new to this channel, but this first video I have seen of Yours was enough to subscribe! This perspective on this three "dark lords" of Tolkien was very interessting... They are different and have each on their unique sides, but in the end they also have many keypoints in common and the more evil they become, the more they all become very much the same in many aspects that matter. (Sorry for My English, but it is not My language)
I continue to lobby for the terror and results of the Valier and women in general in representing Eru. Today's Focus: Nienna! By the unexpected power of Mercy (re: Nienna) Gollum survived to be used by Eru; the maiar, elves and men were blended in Numenoreans unlooked for by Melkor And Mair/Valar have a special representative, Luthien beyond the circles of Arda! Sometimes good seems so trite and boring as to require a nausea bag. Tolkien makes good unexpected, surprising and a cautionary tale without constantly looking like deus ex machina. Off topic: We've seen Melian repel Ungoliant when Melkor singly could not. When every other of the thousands of Noldor under The Ban failed and died by the curse, an Elven woman, Galadriel, not only defeated the curse, she played a significant role in cleaning up the corrupting influence Morgoth left behind (Saurman.) I will never cease to be amazed and in awe of Varda. The embodiment of "evil" feared, was terrified by this female Valar more than Tulkas, Manwe, Ulmo, even Mandos! I've been influenced by Zenna Henderson's story, "Through a Glass---Darkly" especially the character who succeeds in life and is immaculately good, but to me seemed sterile and terrifying for her complete mastery and accurate appraisal of her society. The idea that good could be terrifying and still good had never hit me before. That reminds me of the stress predictors that say a new baby can be stressful as a death, or a new job, new house, winning the lottery...Good can knock us off our feet. Through that lens, Mercy, can be liberating or it can be a weight.. Did Gollum in some aspects, carry that weight? Was Frodo liberated by compassion? In some respects was Sam the hero in many respects less free than Gollum.... Hmmm...
The kitten impulse control comparison had me laughing. XD Regarding morality of "The hitting of the like button", I have to ask for what end do we hit it. Is it, so that we feel better ourselfes? Is it, so that the (from our persepctive) incorporeal entity creating this viedo feels appreciated in his works? Is it, to partake in a social practice of communal praising? Or is it, out of a dislike for the button?
Amoral Lunatic Kitten Morgoth... someone needs to illustrate this. The goals of striking the like button may vary, but the result is to Glorify the All-powerful Algorithm, so although one may like out of rage, love, fear, or a host of other emotions, it is always a Virtuous Choice.
Thanks for tackling this aspect of Tolkien's writing. Once one looks past the escapist swords-and-sorcery surface, Tolkien's writings reveal a lot of philosophical ruminations. Tolkien has a theodicy problem, with Eru Illuvatar and the Valar. Clearly the Valar as a pantheon of creator gods are fallible - Melkor is the prime example but not the only example. The theologians like the word "tension" so let's use it hear. There is tension in Tolkien's constructed universe and it is sort of like a triangle: Eru is one vertex, the Valar (not including Melkor) are another vertex, and Melkor is the last vertex in the triangle. The problem-of-evil is not solved by Tolkien claiming that no one is 100% evil. In watching a recent LOTR reaction CZcams video one of the video's commenters brought up the problem of the Eagles: why didn't Gandalf have the Eagles just carry the ring to Mt. Doom. This of course was asked of Tolkien and the only workable answer was obviously there is not an answer if the story is to have a workable plot. Tolkien wanted "evil" but he did not want perfect evil. By anthropomorphizing "evil" Tolkien has antagonists (Morgoth, Sauron, etc.) for stories. But this only works only so far as we don't believe that the Valar are not powerful gods that are "good", and that Eru is not omniscient and not omnipotent. The whole problem-of-evil is clearly something that underlay some of Tolkien's motives in writing his stories. He _had_ to account for why bad things happen in the real world, and his imaginary world he constructs _reasons_ for evil. The one ring makes its bearer do bad things (and of course the bearer had latent bad traits to begin with.) Both the kin-slaying and the fate of Numenor are fall-of-man stories, retold by Tolkien to embed his own belief that evil exists because of the sinfulness of men (or any sentients.)
Again I want to thank you for creating this type of content. I also watch a lot of other Tolkien content on CZcams, and those guys are great, but sometimes I feel the insights from the other creators are slightly regurgitated. I always find your insights fresh and I have to start thinking of the content in a new direction that makes me fall in love all over for this universe. Please don’t stop!
Great video as usual, been pondering the connection with creation and evil long since Tolkien obviously saw it as a fallpit. Sauron and Saruman coming from Aule....and also Feonor that went batcrazy being the master craftsman. Dont think he saw it as creation itself was the fall, but maybe more that characters that some how wanted admiration and praise was drawn to it. But Sauron feels a bit different, order seems to have been more important than admiration and the titles he claimed might have been more as a tool to acheve that order.
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your future videos. You know your stuff so well and it's nice to see something besides multi-source summaries of events; the analysis is top notch
4:18 well, he's not wrong. Current events speak volumes of Tolkien's insight to life on Earth. The uniformity of evil people is downright stunning. They exist in single threaded cloths and behave pretty much the same down to the point where Advanced Programs could now (if focused on this) predict their actions down to a scary level of accuracy. Politicians, the rich, soldiers and so on, boy... do they fit Tolkien's views to a T. Of course, we don't care if there's any good in them, because the weight of the evil they produced is... heavy, to say the least.
@@an-animal-lover I AM TORMENTED ETERNALLY BY THE BURNING FURY OF A THOUSAND SUNS because I’m out of oreos. I WILL DESTROY ALL THAT EXISTS AND CURSE ALL WHO BREATHE and ask my wife to pick up more from the store when she goes.
4:00 I guarantee these thoughts on the nature of evil were first brought up in a conversation between Tolkien and CS Lewis. In both mere christianity and screwtape letters lewis makes similar points. Though now that I think about it, it has origins in classical Christian theology.
Morgoth: I want to see the world burn.
Sauron: I want to rule the whole world.
Saruman: I want to be better than Gandalf, and also rule the world.
Saruman: I want to be better than Gandalf, and the ONLY WAY I can do that is to rule the world 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor I think the actual problem Saruman had was that he was too aloof and had a growing superiority complex when it came to dealing with all those less than him, while at the same time becoming increasingly jealous of Gandalf. How Saruman could get away with this unnoticed when you have great telepathic beings like Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond is beyond me- but hey if Morgoth could fake atonement before the Valar then I'm certain Saruman can put on a brave face and conceal his true desires.
Haha, that Saruman take is golden
@@skatemetrix I think Saruman can hide that, as he also possesses telepathic power, because he is also a Maia/Istar.
Saruman after Gandalf breaks his staff: Alright I want to rule the shire
14:30 "Evil crushes uniqueness into conformity"
HOLY SHIT THAT IS GOOD
One of the qualities that should be more celebrated about LotR is how it shows how petty and boring real evil is. Those traits can't be separated from the more romanticized qualities of ambition or terror. It's a brilliant thematic move 😭 gets me every time....
@@GirlNextGondor this analysis of evil gives me hope for the world, generally. I’m putting this one in my back pocket. Love your work! Please keep it up.
@Jason this reeks of gnosticism and heresy. Get out.
@@GirlNextGondor Tolkien understood "the banality of evil". It's the opposite of creativity. Destructivity. Who knew?
Rings of power serves as the optimal example.
Another thing I've noted with most of Tolkien's villains is that, at one or multiple points they are given the chance to repent. And they often know that they should, yet at the last minute they renege because of their self righteousness
Definitely - I suspect this was at least partly by design - Tolkien seemed to love the dramatic potential of that moment when a character is on the very cusp of repentance, however it was resolved. Repentance would make another great topic to explore!
@@GirlNextGondor It would! I can only think of three instances of repentance and two of those come too late, but the one success is one of the ways to achieve Eru Ilúvatar's goal of creating things more wonderful than their maker intended.
@@beatleblev "Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and he will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth."
Too late or not?
i don't think the primary emotion was self-righteousness but rather wounded pride, simply too full of hate and the desire to dominate.
@@maxion5109 what is self righteousness but pride?
Sauron is one of my favourite villains, like a blacksmith he views creation as something to be hammered into shape, bent into something structured, ordered and beautiful. As such, imperfections aren’t to be tolerated for they corrupt and weaken the pure design. The imperfections being chaos and disorder, which he wants to stamp out because it’s the only thing he *can’t* control.
Sauron motivation in that sense, is an extremely human one. He wants to remove the uncertainty and sheer terror the next day will bring something terrible and unpredictable. And he does this through iron fisted control of everything he can get his hands on, refusing to accept that there are simply things in life that cannot be controlled, predicted or prevented.
I can only imagine how frustrated Sauron must have been with the elves and men. If only they had listened to him, if only they had obeyed, everything would have been perfect. Surely once his plans had reached fruition the elves and men that were still around would agree that it was all worth it, that _any_ means are justified if the end is infinitely good?
When the Elves takes off their rings to avoid being ruled he feels so so offended and hurt and betrayed and wounded! like they think they are somehow better than him!
I think the key phrase here is "that were still around." Like, of course the ones who were still around would agree... because the ones who foolishly persisted in disagreeing, would no longer be around. QED.
I know Tolkien's all hyping Sauron's black anger at the failure of his plan, but... it always seemed to me that he wasn't just angry, but *hurt* that no one wanted to use his Rings that he worked SO HARD ON, and yes they subject you all to my domination but I promise I'll be a benevolent ruler, and certainly more organized than YOU, Mr. I-Can't-Remember-Where-I-Bestowed-Vilya!
@@GirlNextGondor I don't think he had any self-righteous or sincere pretence to be a benevolent ruler, if he had it would be a ruse. Wounded pride would fuel the hatred further and the desire to dominate is the only thing that's left. Yes you're entirely correct that evil is not absolute in Tolkien's imagination but rather a progression from something like acting out one's afflictive emotions to a state of being more or less pure evil. The question remains could is there still something within Morgoth and Sauron that is redeemable? Tolkien didn't give an answer to that it seems.
@@maxion5109 I mean by the end of the third age after having his physical body destroyed AGAIN i'm pretty sure he can't lie even to himself.
But before that he may have had utopian goals, and horrific means.
@@GirlNextGondor all Sauron really wanted was someone to play with his rings obviously
Easily THE BEST up and coming Tolkien channel. I love this format and the deeper meditations on the Legendarium as a whole. Keep it up!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed!
I agree, it is clear for everyone to see that a lot of research and thought went into every single one of your analysises. I really appreciate your work
Totally agree.
Very well analysed my dear great content
Girl Next Gondor and The Red Book are the absolute best standard for Tolkien exposition in my view. By a long way.
I love the idea of evil being the lack of good, having no value or reality of its own. Good is what's real and evil is what isn't, and can never be. And none of us is wholly good or evil-
"Wickedness, when you examine it, turns out to be the pursuit of some good, in the wrong way." C.S. Lewis
It clarifies things when one understands that Evil does not think it is Evil. Evil, always thinks it is the correct version of the Good.
‘As a shadow Melkor did not then conceive himself. For in his beginning he loves and desired light, and the form that he took was exceedingly bright; and he said in his heart: ‘On such brightness as I am the Children shall hardly endure to look; therefore to know of aught else or beyond or even to strain their small minds to conceive of it would not be for their good.’ But a lesser brightness that stands before the greater becomes darkness. And Melkor was jealous, therefore, of all other brightness, and wished to take all light unto himself.’
Melkor is the ultimate Niceguy.
Also, i feel Tolkien operated on the premise that goodness is inherent whereas evil is always a choice, so every evil action is a choice, but left to their most basic selves at least the Ainur would do only good things.
Ooh, I really like that way of putting it - or at the very least, choices that are harmful but made unconsciously are redeemable. Aule is the obvious example - he knew he wasn't really *supposed* to be making Dwarves, but he didn't will or even fully recognize the possible consequences, so of course he repents as soon as he figures out the magnitude of his actions, and Dwarves become something that was 'good to have been' even though they weren't part of the original plan.
Poor Melkor (not really): "I'm a nice enough guy, why won't everyone worship me like the god I almost-am?"
@@GirlNextGondor yes this is exactly why there's sympathy for some sons of Feanor but not others. No one could know the impact of the oath, and we don't even know how compelling the oath was, but abducting a woman to coerce her into marriage or being so hateful your attendants think it's okay to abandon kids in the forest are choices.
I would rather say that Sauron is more of a Niceguy than Melkor, because he paints himself as a good, benevolent person like "How DARE this ungratefull people not give My the position of godking of middle earth, even when I would make everything great!"
What? Kindly lookup what "nice" means......agreeable, pleasant, good natured, delightful. Melkor is NONE of these........contrary, defiant, disobedient, and destructive from square 1.
Goodness is NOT inherent, but is conditional and is the absence of harm & death (evil), and sin (disobedience to God/Eru). Melkor's "basic" expression was to sin, i.e. be defiant and go his own way.
Death and evil entered man's world BECAUSE he sinned (so says the Bible); because he was NOT originally granted complete knowledge (of good and evil), he was playing a rigged game where it was too easy to choose poorly. All who followed suffered because of this "choice".
Jesus was made and joined the Lower Than the Angels Team so that he could taste death and be raised to glory. Satan, demons, and the JRRT bad-boys do not (apparently) ever possess any redemption green stamps.
Aule sinned and constructed creatures that did evil, but he admitted his sin and (presumably) was pardoned and redeemed. Melkor and Sauron (and Saruman, too, come to think of it), never repented, never admitted error, and (I would guess) were never redeemed. Hitler, Jeff Daumer, and sociopaths/psychopaths everywhere never seem to repent or be capable of it. Perhaps orcs are all twisted/manufactured sociopaths and CANNOT be capable of repentance/redemption.
I wonder about that Feanor dude, too. Lots of pride and anger, NO meekness.
@@GirlNextGondor😮 I am speechless - so here is a written message. Wonderful insight into Tolkien's insight into the parasitic nature of evil on the goodness of existence! So well and humorously expressed! Surely you are fair, yet terrible as a host in battle array?
I think Lexi is right about Morgoth. I never thought about what he would have done had the Valar and their army not intervened to take him down. He certainly would have wanted the death of everyone and the destruction of everything. He would have had the orcs kill each other in the end because after all they were originally part of Eru's Children and that is enough for him to eventually desire their extinction.
"Consider subscribing, unless of course the very existence of the world so offends you that your rage is ceaseless and unappeasable."😂
To expand on your anecdote about bronze medalists often being happier than silver medalists: in some team sports like ice hockey, the tournament format dictates that a team must *win* a match for the bronze medal, but a team *loses* the gold-medal match to 'win' the silver... Imma slap that like button like it's a puck being slapshotted into the back of the net in overtime to bring home the gold medal!
I accidentally subscribed to this channel whilst watching Tolkien videos, but the phrase “junior in depravity” has earned that subscription!
On my first or second reading of LotR (1965 or 1966) I was much impressed by Gandalf's statement that Sauron, being evil, would not be able to conceive that anyone who had the Ring could want to destroy it. I summarized this to myself as "good can understand evil but evil can't understand good," and I associated it with the idea that evil can't create new things of its own. Later, when I first read the Silmarillion, I was started to find, near the end of chap. 6, "For Manwe was free from evil and could not comprehend it ... and he saw not to the depths of Melkor's heart." Do you share my feeling that this last quote is hard to fit in with most of what Tolkien says on the subject?
Excellent take. Those were my exact thoughts on it when I first read through. It’s another direct mirroring of Biblical concepts Tolkien used as foundation for the world he created.
Manwë was so good, that he was beyond comprehension of evil. Beings like Gandalf or anything less than the Valar would be more capable of falling into evil. For Gandalf to turn evil was more possible than for Manwë to turn evil, that's why Gandalf could still see deeper into the very heart of evil than Manwë could. It's not contradictory to what Tolkien says. Gandalf for example is very aware that the One Ring would turn him into something terrible, Manwë is so far removed from the capacity of doing evil that he can not even truly understand evil.
"...a ten week old kitten faced with a twitching piece of string..." That's poetry. Fun stuff. Thx.
It fascinates me that, though evil may begin from different roots, it all grows into the same bitter, twisted plant, whereas the forces of good are always expanding and growing into something greater.
Well put!
Kipling's quote (Wimbledon) about triumph and disaster being the same imposter applies to good and evil. Both have the same growth and expansion........fields of lush crops or rank weeds; it's all in your perception.
Can I just say how supremely cool of you it is to put artist credit *on screen* with each image instead of a nebulous ‘artist credit below’ or something? Anyway, new subscriber here, and I’m SO happy I found your channel. Looking forward to the rest of your hard work!
Thanks for the sub! I saw a couple other channels using a similar art credit animation, and I really liked the extra clarity it provided 😁
"From splendour he fell through arrogance to contempt for all things save
himself, a spirit wasteful and pitiless. Understanding he turned to subtlety in
perverting to his own will all that he would use, until he became a liar without
shame. He began with the desire of Light, but when he could not possess it for
himself alone, he descended through fire and wrath into a great burning, down
into Darkness. And darkness he used most in his evil works upon Arda, and
filled it with fear for all living things" (The Silmarillion, The Valaquenta)
"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit
whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of
the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the
deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of
his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for
long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow
of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same
ruinous path down into the Void" (The Silmarillion, The Valaquenta)
"And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand,
and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power
sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron;
but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he." (Unfinished Tales, The Istari)
I can't put my finger on it, but Tolkien's descriptions of the ends of his Dark Lords are some of my favorite passages in the Legendarium. The last one sums up the process of corruption succinctly. First comes pride, then impatience, then the grasp for power at any cost, and finally getting your own way through the use of force. Whether it is the Secret Fire, instant organization, or getting the respect you deserve and the power you are due, all of these foes have a need that could only be met by interaction and cooperation. Of course, none of these beings collaborate (like a certain fiery Noldo from a previous video) and won't be on a team they can't lead and dominate. The ends for these fallen Ainur are similar as well in their mind-numbing misery, either as a prisoner in the Void, or as a powerless shade of malice on the wind.
Agreed - he does a great job of making them sinister and chilling, but also hinting at the futility of their efforts. That "walked behind him on the same ruinous path" is such a good image.
Curumo's flaws began to show up even as soon as the council of the Valar that selected who the Istari would be happened. It's curious that none of the Valar picked up on Curumo's pride being wounded when Olórin was added to say nothing of the contempt in which he held Aiwendil. Then again, they often missed signs that all was not right with certain beings.
I wonder what Sauron would have done had Morgoth not been defeated in the War of Wrath or at any later point. At a certain point, Morgoth's desire to destroy the world would have become clear to Sauron. If Morgoth had his way, there would be no world to bring order and efficiency to and perhaps in the end Morgoth would have sought to destroy his Maia servants, Sauron included.
When reading the silmarillion I often imagined, how frustrated Saurons was with Morgoths chaotic nature. I don't think this relationship was harmonious, just Morgoths was way more powerful.
@@MrX-nv8kp I imagine you are right. Sauron was enamored of Morgoth's straightforward approach to "solving problems" but I often think Sauron was tasked with implementing many of Morgoth's ideas and would have found that frustrating.
I never realized that critical difference between Morgoth and Sauron. Strange how he was both a very different dark lord and exactly the same (i.e. a dark lord)
If I was FORCED to live under the dominion of one or the other, I'd choose Sauron. A functioning bureaucracy, plentiful food, impeccable aesthetics, and no risk of half a mountain range being randomly destroyed 'for teh lulz'. Also he has the good sense to leave the spiders well enough alone.
@@GirlNextGondor but wasn't he also a perfectionist to the extreme? To the point where if you fell short for even a moment by even a fraction of his standards for order, he'd smite you?
@@an-animal-lover I mean yeah but she said that if she was forced to choose, it would be Sauron and not Morgoth. Because Sauron may be a perfectionist who would have you killed for the slightest offense... but Morgoth will have you killed anyway because the fact that you are not of his creation already offends him.
An important point about Saruman. He was the leader charged with defeating Sauron. He spends most of his time "studying the devices of Sauron".
At some point this turns into envy and admiration of Sauron and his methods, and he starts copying Saurons methods.
Then he concludes that Sauron is unassailable without the one ring. Saruman then focuses on capturing the one ring to defeat Sauron or failing that an alliance wiht Sauron in order to control Sauron and Middle Earth. Notice what Gandalf the white says: Indeed i am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been".
Saruman was actually trapped by Sauron by using the palantir. His true motivation is then fear, and fighting to get out of that trap alive, while being coerced to build a copy of Sauron's system. In that, probably mental, trap his objective was then to beat Sauron with Sauron's own weapons.
Melkor acts with the motivation to destroy the existing, and Sauron with the motivation to control and order the existing. Considering the relationship between Melkor and Sauron, this difference seems like a contradiction, but as mentioned in the video, motivation is a situation that is shaped by time and space.
Were it not for the War of Wrath, I think there would inevitably have been a situation where Sauron took over, whether by betraying Morgoth or just by being more and more responsible for daily operations until Morgoth was effectively a figurehead. As it stands, Sauron got the liberty to pursue his very own agenda soon enough 😆
@@GirlNextGondor According to your opinion, Sauron can take a position according to the developing conjuncture. In this context, it is theoretically possible to conflict with Melkor.
Tolkien wrote such interesting villains. Looking forward to more in this series as well as evil within the other sentient beings and incarnates. I'd be really interested in hearing about dragons, balrogs, and orcs! :)
Great analysis. Got some interesting tidbits I hadn't had before, like Saruman attempting to craft a ring of his own. I always thought it strange that a band of metal can be used to such incredible ends, but I suppose a ring is more than a metal band. It is more like a category of power amplifiers so to speak. Sauron's twist was in tainting his rings to subjugate the will of its bearer to Sauron. Celebrimbor made the three elven rings without that taint, so they served their intended function of amplifying the bearer's power. Saruman not being able to create a ring means he is lacking critical knowledge of amplifying the bearer's power.
Sauron definitely had the edge in Ring-lore, which I suspect is due to his direct tutelage under Morgoth, who kind of pioneered the whole power-externalization field 😆
Love the in depth compare/contrast of the three big bads. It really highlights the point that no matter how it begins, evil always leads in the same direction.
Great video. I think Tolkien’s writing is a lot more complex morally than people give him credit for, while also very clearly defining good and evil.
I would argue that Sauron was originally the most power of Maiar, his true name Mairon meaning 'The Admired or Admirable or Adored' and given Melkor's own name means something along the lines of 'He who rises in might' and was the most powerful Valar at first. Well, Tolkien has shown himself to be very deliberate with the naming conventions in his works.
"The coolest people are gonna be assholes if you pit them on a freaking pedistal, geniuses"
-Tolkien, in a nutshell.
Also, Fëanor rapresents this for the Elves as well.
Given that Melkor and Mairon NEVER had any girlfriends, are you slyly suggesting that JRRT was making a case for these two being gay for each other? By Jove, I wonder if you have something here?
Melkor courted Elbereth and lusted after Lúthien. Sauron was just asexual, he probably saw the idea of “sex for pleasure” as nothing more than a waste of time and energy.
Thanks....I don't think I ever knew that Melkor chased after Elbereth. Guess she could smell a rat when around one. I assumed Morgoth was simply twisted and possibly gay adjacent or even trans (pronouns not declared other than She-King-It).@@dllps
As a dad with 4 daughters, allow me to say how wonderful it is to have a strong and knowledgeable female voice in Tolkienien scholarship. Keep up the good work, lass, this is a very interesting and in depth channel.
I like the other Tolkien channels, of course, but I think in people who have read many of the books there is a hunger for deeper meditations and comparative analysis. The majority of other CZcams videos seem to merely regurgitate stories and lore from the books, I’ve found. Which of course is important and good. But I think there is a perfect niche for this content! And all the pictures add so much to the experience. Really loving it all & can’t wait to see what you come out with next.
Agreed. You'll like The Red Book channel too ----quite similar to this one
Yes! I also have to say that I appreciate the quiet, irreverent but never gratuitous humor that accompanies the analysis. If anything I would love a little bit more light content, although the one episode who completely changed my view of Tolkien was the one about the Shire as a… shall we call it an ambiguous utopia?
@ArdaEa agreed - both GNG and Red Book are great!
Haste. Old say ( the devil makes haste). Wonderful writing as usual. Lexi
Thank you Shane 😁 Rebel in haste, repent in leisure... 3 ages of it, in Mandos.
@@GirlNextGondor lol . Rebel in hasn't repent at leisure. Haven't heard that in awhile. Great saying
Amazing video, I love hearing about the villains!! It always does annoy me when people accuse Tolkien's characters or bing too black and white, because for the most part they're all somewhat good and somewhat evil (although not all, I don't think Sam for instance has any 'evil' qualities, just some negative ones) and especially if you take characters from the Silmarillion into account, most all of them are pretty complex
How long do you think it took Saruman realize that Cirdan had given Gandalf one of the Three?
That must have become the most burning of wounds to him, as the centuries passed.
Ooh yes! Your videos make me very happy GNG. Love your clever sense of humour and you really do immerse us into Tolkien's world.
Aw, thank you so much! It's very nice to know my videos bring happiness 😄
I feel like I just unearthed an Arkenstone in discovering this channel. Great work! More please!
One of the things we learn in childhood is how to cope with frustration. These three might have done better if they had started out as children and had that learning experience. Though most of their peers didn't seem to need it as much.
Anyway, as usual a very interesting video. Thank you!
This was wonderful and you are highly gifted. Thank you, internet.
Thank you 😊 glad you liked it!
My pre video prediction is their wish to impose their idea of creation on the world, and how this pushes them to their evil actions
Yep, you pretty much summed it up 😉 different factors push them each to that point, but where they go from misguided or frustrated to outright Evil is when they decide their plan is not only the best plan, but the only one that can be permitted to exist. It's all very much downhill from there....
Lexi, you've become an expert in creating videos:
In finding art which fits best to your script; in supplying all the bibliography for quotes, images and references; in mixing the sound, so that all decibels grant perfect listening experience; in the smoothest script delivery; and in creating an atmosphere both calming and engaging.
*Here I enter a 80 speech in Quenya , which concludes in 'the end goal would be to build a city state with not 7, but 17 gates, dedicated to Lexi' *.
Anyone who truly wants to learn about the legendarium should begin with your content. The depth of your understanding comes from a scholar level of a reader.
I do think that evil is a choice and something some have to maintain. Almost brainwash yourself until you are lost and cross all boundaries.
Envy and a sense of superiority get worse when you have the means to asset your will without close to utmost certainty. But when there is a greater good above all else, this evil cannot truly prevail and is ultimately finite.
Thank you so much! It did not come naturally 😅 as earlier videos could attest.
I think one of the awful paradoxes of evil is how it weakens your ability to choose another option, but also makes you too proud to recognize (or admit) the damage that's been done.
@@GirlNextGondor
Ur literally one of the only people on CZcamsrs who delve deeper into the themes of lotr and have a unique understanding of the definitions of power and potential and I'm addicted to ur videos bcuz of it! Luv hearing about the implications of existential power and dominion over the earth b4 bed
This particular video should be a university seminar. It is so lucid and insightful
Thank you for dealing with this topic! I see many times that people see Evil in Tolkien's works as something necessary, as pure manicheism. And that is SO concerning, because it is completely the opposite and it really affects the reader's mind-set! I'm an admin in Tolkien Gateway, and we were recently discussing about making an article on this important topic. I'll put a link to this nice video if we ever get into that.
I owe a tremendous debt to Tolkien Gateway 💖 thank you all for your tireless labor and glorious citations!
I am also so relieved to learn I am not the only one worried that the manichees are winning every time I see someone characterize a Tolkien narrative as 'an epic conflict between the forces of Light and Darkness.' Or, for instance, when a certain ore is said to have 'a power as pure and light as Good; as strong and unyielding as Evil.'
(I may, however, be the only person to have nearly choked to death after screaming 'That's (expletive) DUALISM, you sick (expletive)s !' through a mouthful of popcorn.)
Surprised to see so little subscribers so far, this channel has potential to be top 3 lotr themed channels alongside nerd of the rings and men of the west, you certainly got my vote
Thanks Lexi! I hope this turns into a series! There's many things to be said. 😀
Indeed - I could probably ramble on for several hours!
So good. I love how watching these videos gives me such an appreciation for Tolkien's work and how many truths there are about the human condition in his writing! Excellent analysis.
💓 I love to spread the apprecation. And just when I think I've got a pretty good handle on the metaphysics and I know where he's going with these themes, I uncover some new connection or dimension that makes me go🤯. One of the reasons why lit analysis in general is so endlessly fun, if the book is any good there's always going to be a new angle to find!
I have heard you as a guest on other channels and recently listened to two of your own episodes. You are a delight! You have a unique take and are well reasoned and easy to follow. I hope you become as popular as In Deep Geek and others of his ilk.
Thank you very much! I've been lucky enough to have some great hosts, and I'm looking forward to bringing on guests of my own in the future.
Also thank you so much for adding credits for the artwork here. I've wanted to purchase prints of many of these images but was never able to easily find who made them!
The way you speak and break down these ideas is amazing. Thank you. No idea what else you do but u have an amazing ability to put together and express vast sometimes vagues ideas in and entertaining and cohesive way. Thank you again u rock
Fantastic video! "Evil" leaders in Tolkien have such complex histories and outlooks. And seeing these quotes make me really want to get my hands on a copy of Morgoth's Ring :3
Thank you! Morgoth's Ring is well worth a look if only for skimming through the "Myths Transformed" section and seeing what a different direction Tolkien was considering taking things. Lots of fun bits about Orcs and Eagles and such too.
Just recently found this channel and greatly enjoy these videos. Kudos for giving the artists’ credits on screen. Comparing their motives/corruption, I wonder how Sauron and Morgoth’s relationship worked? Sauron’s loyalty to Melkor seems to be build on a belief in Melkor’s status as the mightiest force in Arda, but their goals seem completely antithetical: Sauron wants a well-structured, smoothly running world, but Melkor wants to destroy anything that isn’t purely of his own creation, so how does Sauron see himself fitting into Melkor’s goals? Did he secretly think that Melkor would not be able to achieve his end goal? Did Sauron think that once Melkor has destroyed Arda, Sauron would have the opportunity to start from scratch on his own?
I really like your take on Morgoth not being wholly evil and probably not considering himself evil at all. I've always thought that the Balrogs were likely more evil than even Morgoth was, because at least Morgoth desires some sort of rebellious freedom and other aspirations to create. The Balrogs just seem like underlings who saw him search the void and said "oh that looks fun" and followed him just for the sake of wanting power. The Balrogs really aren't all that powerful considering what they actually are, just rather simple spirits of fire who spent all their strength in Udun taking on terrifying physical forms. More of reckless violent idiots rather than powerful masterminds of darkness. I think that's much more evil than most things Morgoth ever did, or Sauron, unless he's the one who killed all the Entwives (😭)
What an incredible video!
I was always intrigued by the fact that the desire of creation ended up in lust for dominance, even more when that desire was pure hearted and actually creation is a divine and "good thing" in itself...
Tolkien has been the Jimminy Cricket on my shoulder, taking me to task, for prideful thinking, for many years, in a way that state sanctioned religions and spiritual practices never manage to. What an achievement, for a work of fiction.
Another great video. Very struck by your succinct summary of motivation, what they want and what it is about them that makes them want it.
Thank you! I was stumped for a moment by motivation, because of course they all *want* the same thing in the end... but at least at first they all have different reasons for wanting it.
Oh my goodness! I literally have a video coming out tomorrow on evil in Middle-earth! Great video as always.
AWESOME, can't wait to see it! Love me some evil bois.
Great stuff as ever. The comparison between these three, helps to illuminate Tolkiens ideas on evil. I am sure Saruman was the best man for the job, like the job of ringbearer it is too much for anyone. Gandalf himself gives many good examples of why he is a bad leader, but a great inspirer. Once again you have inspired me to smash that like button, as Morgoth tried to smash all his enemies. Thanks GNG and keep up the good work.
If your rage is anything less than ceaseless and unappeaseable, then it really is just a liability.
Very good channel you're up there with the best of them!! Nerd of the rings and broken sword right now are my favorites. But there's absolutely no reason I won't be listening to you as much as I do them. It's definitely a different perspective the way you put it. I find it very enlightening and entertaining so thank you very much
So glad to hear you enjoyed it! I think it's neat that there's so many different Tolkien channels that all bring a different take to the story, I never run out of stuff to watch 😁
Morgoth: the cosmic toddler that ruined everything. Saruman too is an especially is a pathetic shadow of his former self by the end of ROTK. I think the quantity he lacks that Gandalf has in spades could be paraphrased as "common sense" or perhaps "basic social skills."
I believe I understand Saruman more than I understand the other two.
If Saruman just sat on his a** and did nothing, he would have won. If he hadn't betrayed the "good", that's an easy victory. If he didn't betrayed Sauron too, then the Nazgul catch Frodo, and again, easy victory. So what was his motivation.
He didn't want to share the victory. He wanted to win ALONE. He wanted the others to lose as much as he wanted to win. And there is a tiny bit of ego. A small amount. He thought there was a chance to win while playing against everyone else. Which would have been a huge achievement.
That's partly why he had to investigate the Shire, try to make a ring, and so on. It is so difficult to fight both the good, and Sauron, he couldn't allow himself any mistakes.
Great video! I love looking at the motives of these 3. I like your insight on how this is easier to see played out in the Maiar vs corporeal beings 😊
Thank you! Glad to see you got a kick out of it. 💗
Tolkien is, I think, surprisingly merciful toward his human villains; without glossing over their faults he generally suggests some extenuating circumstances or flawed-but-understandable perspectives that drive them to their misdeeds. But Valar and Maiar don't generally have those excuses 😆
"psychoactive plant matter" A.K.A. pipeweed. 🤣😂😆
Well met Squad Leader! Keep up the great work Mellon! I'm always enlightened, informed, and entertained by you analysis. House Storm Crow stands proudly with this squad.
p.s. if you see any orcs....tell em I says, ECTHELION!!
I do find Sarumon a facinating character. Thank you for looking him again.
You just made me have a mental breakthrough. Tolkien's view of evil being a privation of good ties back to St. Augustine's views on the topic and then the discussion of evil as boring of course brings to mind Hannah Arendt and her concept of the banality of evil. Arendt's dissertation was on St. Augustine and I had never put together how closely tied together the privation theory of evil is to the concept of the banality of evil. It's so obvious but I only put the pieces together now.
Great video, really appreciate how contemplative you are Lexi, about the lore, and am now pondering about the nature of Tolkien's statement regarding evil. Though now I'm stuck with the mental image of Melkor as a kitten striking at a piece of string. As to Sauron, the fact that he believes wholly in his own actions being justified is a terrifying element of his character. As this trend towards self-justification and savage cruelty is a horrid combination and could lead to countless mad misdeeds.
Can't help but think that Saruman is the most tragic of the trio, given that he once had the most passion for good wishing truly to help by sacrificing for the greater good only to fall to madness.
I wonder was it JRRT's intention to create a lore with characters that we could see ourselves in and learn lessons from? He has the benefit of a thousand more years of literature to draw on to tell similar stories as church, but in a way that is more relatable. Your lessons seem very applicable, thank you.
I would say that is very likely on three fronts at least. 1) Tolkien desired to give England a mythology of its own that could be passed down. Thus education to a certain extent would have been the goal. 2) Tolkien was a solid practitioner of Roman Catholicism and as such would have seen the value in teaching people the ways of God, or perhaps the right and proper way in which to live. 3) Tolkien was by his own chosen profession an educator and to this spent his life in dedication. I believe these created a threefold instinct in him that heavily influenced his writing and worldbuilding.
I love your analysis. It's one of the saddest things to see all the characters turn to evil without realizing it. I remember in your Sauron character rehab video (which was spectacular) how you discussed this whole motives of evil concept but used Sauron as the example. It's great to see a comparison between all the different main evils especially Sauron and Morgoth. However, I do have one question: during the fall of Numinor when Sauron set up the temple of Morgoth did he not proclaim himself as Morgoth returned? In that way would he not have claimed himself as greater than Eru also? It doesn't quite make sense with his original motives, but it's still a thing.
As I recall, Tolkien says (probably somewhere in Letters) that Sauron didn't take up the "Morgoth returned" masquerade until the Third Age, not in Numenor.
Wonderful video, insightful and thought provoking. Subscribed.
Thanks and welcome! 😁
"What do you despise? By this you are truly known." --Frank Herbert
Although this statement has its limits, I generally agree with it. In my interpretation, evil people can love good things, but good people cannot love evil things.
I think I agree if we're distinguishing 'things' from 'people.' To love something you have to find something worthwhile or admirable in it - so you couldn't really love a totally evil act or quality like murder or cowardice. But I would think the capacity to love a *person* whose deeds you deem evil would be more common among good people than bad ones.
@@GirlNextGondor Yeah the quote only refers to "things". The Bible tells us to love all people, be they good or evil.
Excellent video, as always! I love that you incorporate every book Tolkien wrote (including the HoME series!) and don't just to LotR, The Silmarilion etc. You go really deep and arouse some thought provoking questions, instead of just covering lore. On a similar note, maybe you would consider doing a series where you cover the earliest versions of the Legendarium (The BoLT, the Lays of Beleriand and suchlike). I love the old tale of the Sun and Moon, the Óllorë Mallë, The Cottage of Lost Play, but most Tolkien channels (even really good ones like Tolkien Lore and Men of the West) rarely, if ever, discuss those topics. Again, great video, and I hope you have a good day!
This "Sacred fire" is also known as an individual virtue. A fire (metaphor) that burns within good and virtuous individuals to resist, fight and overcome the forces of evil. This might be explained as personal innate pure courage and bravery rather than a literal actual fire. Those that possess it are the ones who stand against seemingly impossible odds when all others would run and unite to resist the evils of others. This I feel was apparent and obvious to Tolkien himself when he was both an observer and participant in the catastrophic events of WWI. He was witness to evil, those that commit it and those that ran from it. He saw in people the potential to commit great evil but also the courage and bravery of those to stand and fight against it. Those blinded by pure evil thoughts cannot fathom why people would dare to stand against and resist their desire to commit evil. They see these individuals as stubborn and their feats of courage and bravery as being futile. However, when these individuals triumph against all odds it frustrates, angers and infuriates these powerful evil beings. The ironic thing in all of this is that Melkor/Morgoth, Sauron, and Saruman never understood and were oblivious to the fact that the "sacred fire" was manifest within the hearts and minds of all of their adversaries that thwarted their evil plans. What these evil leaders sort most was hidden right before their very eyes.
Your videos really stand out among all the channels on LOTR lore. Nobody does as much research as you, and I truly appreciate your grasp on both minute details and their function within the most sweeping themes.
You really scratch that intellectual itch for meaningfulness, and it's obvious that you aren't doing this just to churn out content.
Morning lexi . Thanks. Motives. ? The rowd to perdition ( hell ) is paved with good intentions.
I am new to this channel, but this first video I have seen of Yours was enough to subscribe! This perspective on this three "dark lords" of Tolkien was very interessting... They are different and have each on their unique sides, but in the end they also have many keypoints in common and the more evil they become, the more they all become very much the same in many aspects that matter. (Sorry for My English, but it is not My language)
I continue to lobby for the terror and results of the Valier and women in general in representing Eru. Today's Focus: Nienna!
By the unexpected power of Mercy (re: Nienna) Gollum survived to be used by Eru; the maiar, elves and men were blended in Numenoreans unlooked for by Melkor And Mair/Valar have a special representative, Luthien beyond the circles of Arda!
Sometimes good seems so trite and boring as to require a nausea bag. Tolkien makes good unexpected, surprising and a cautionary tale without constantly looking like deus ex machina.
Off topic:
We've seen Melian repel Ungoliant when Melkor singly could not. When every other of the thousands of Noldor under The Ban failed and died by the curse, an Elven woman, Galadriel, not only defeated the curse, she played a significant role in cleaning up the corrupting influence Morgoth left behind (Saurman.) I will never cease to be amazed and in awe of Varda. The embodiment of "evil" feared, was terrified by this female Valar more than Tulkas, Manwe, Ulmo, even Mandos!
I've been influenced by Zenna Henderson's story, "Through a Glass---Darkly" especially the character who succeeds in life and is immaculately good, but to me seemed sterile and terrifying for her complete mastery and accurate appraisal of her society. The idea that good could be terrifying and still good had never hit me before. That reminds me of the stress predictors that say a new baby can be stressful as a death, or a new job, new house, winning the lottery...Good can knock us off our feet. Through that lens, Mercy, can be liberating or it can be a weight.. Did Gollum in some aspects, carry that weight? Was Frodo liberated by compassion? In some respects was Sam the hero in many respects less free than Gollum.... Hmmm...
The kitten impulse control comparison had me laughing. XD
Regarding morality of "The hitting of the like button", I have to ask for what end do we hit it. Is it, so that we feel better ourselfes? Is it, so that the (from our persepctive) incorporeal entity creating this viedo feels appreciated in his works? Is it, to partake in a social practice of communal praising? Or is it, out of a dislike for the button?
Amoral Lunatic Kitten Morgoth... someone needs to illustrate this.
The goals of striking the like button may vary, but the result is to Glorify the All-powerful Algorithm, so although one may like out of rage, love, fear, or a host of other emotions, it is always a Virtuous Choice.
@@GirlNextGondor Fëanor founded Google.
Closely reasoned and well-supported textually. Great content!
Thanks for tackling this aspect of Tolkien's writing. Once one looks past the escapist swords-and-sorcery surface, Tolkien's writings reveal a lot of philosophical ruminations.
Tolkien has a theodicy problem, with Eru Illuvatar and the Valar. Clearly the Valar as a pantheon of creator gods are fallible - Melkor is the prime example but not the only example. The theologians like the word "tension" so let's use it hear. There is tension in Tolkien's constructed universe and it is sort of like a triangle: Eru is one vertex, the Valar (not including Melkor) are another vertex, and Melkor is the last vertex in the triangle. The problem-of-evil is not solved by Tolkien claiming that no one is 100% evil.
In watching a recent LOTR reaction CZcams video one of the video's commenters brought up the problem of the Eagles: why didn't Gandalf have the Eagles just carry the ring to Mt. Doom. This of course was asked of Tolkien and the only workable answer was obviously there is not an answer if the story is to have a workable plot.
Tolkien wanted "evil" but he did not want perfect evil. By anthropomorphizing "evil" Tolkien has antagonists (Morgoth, Sauron, etc.) for stories. But this only works only so far as we don't believe that the Valar are not powerful gods that are "good", and that Eru is not omniscient and not omnipotent.
The whole problem-of-evil is clearly something that underlay some of Tolkien's motives in writing his stories. He _had_ to account for why bad things happen in the real world, and his imaginary world he constructs _reasons_ for evil. The one ring makes its bearer do bad things (and of course the bearer had latent bad traits to begin with.)
Both the kin-slaying and the fate of Numenor are fall-of-man stories, retold by Tolkien to embed his own belief that evil exists because of the sinfulness of men (or any sentients.)
Did Tolkien's favorite theologian, Aquinas, satisfactorily solve "the problem of evil"?
Great video! It’s really fascinating to consider how their personalities changed and kind of dulled as they strayed towards evil.
Again I want to thank you for creating this type of content. I also watch a lot of other Tolkien content on CZcams, and those guys are great, but sometimes I feel the insights from the other creators are slightly regurgitated.
I always find your insights fresh and I have to start thinking of the content in a new direction that makes me fall in love all over for this universe. Please don’t stop!
the more i listen to this channel the more i like it
Great video as usual, been pondering the connection with creation and evil long since Tolkien obviously saw it as a fallpit. Sauron and Saruman coming from Aule....and also Feonor that went batcrazy being the master craftsman. Dont think he saw it as creation itself was the fall, but maybe more that characters that some how wanted admiration and praise was drawn to it. But Sauron feels a bit different, order seems to have been more important than admiration and the titles he claimed might have been more as a tool to acheve that order.
Excellent analysis.
Thank you, Carl! I appreciate it!
If you don't mind my asking, what's the best way to get in touch with you?
Your high level and intelligent content is so enjoyable
So glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your future videos. You know your stuff so well and it's nice to see something besides multi-source summaries of events; the analysis is top notch
4:18 well, he's not wrong. Current events speak volumes of Tolkien's insight to life on Earth. The uniformity of evil people is downright stunning. They exist in single threaded cloths and behave pretty much the same down to the point where Advanced Programs could now (if focused on this) predict their actions down to a scary level of accuracy. Politicians, the rich, soldiers and so on, boy... do they fit Tolkien's views to a T. Of course, we don't care if there's any good in them, because the weight of the evil they produced is... heavy, to say the least.
You r genius girl ❤ this video clarified soo much. Seriously, the Best translator of Tolkiens works and its essence, I’ve ever come across.
Another rad one!
😎
Love your channel so much, thank you for doing what you do!
Thank you!! Glad you enjoy it!
MY RAGE IS CEASELESS AND UNAPPEASABLE!! oh wait i found an oreo… ok you may continue.
I imagine you've finished that oreo, how's your rage now?
@@an-animal-lover I AM TORMENTED ETERNALLY BY THE BURNING FURY OF A THOUSAND SUNS because I’m out of oreos. I WILL DESTROY ALL THAT EXISTS AND CURSE ALL WHO BREATHE and ask my wife to pick up more from the store when she goes.
Hello! Yay! You are back again 💓🙌🏼🎉💖
Yes! Didn't necessarily plan it this way but it's a bonus week, everything kind of got finished at once 😁
that's weird I feel educated. I applaud your work on this content full video. subbed.
So very glad to have found your channel :)
Great video! Subbed!
Thanks for the sub! 🥰 Glad you enjoyed it!
Your videos are some of the best readings of Tolkiens work. Wonderful job!
Team bad boy forever. Always played mordor in bfme
4:00 I guarantee these thoughts on the nature of evil were first brought up in a conversation between Tolkien and CS Lewis. In both mere christianity and screwtape letters lewis makes similar points. Though now that I think about it, it has origins in classical Christian theology.
A very interesting, and fitting, choice of soundtrack for the intro.
🔥, always learn so much clearly and joyfully from your work. Thanks!
So happy to hear that!