The Terrible Problem With Skyrim's Magic (And Why Death Stranding's Is Genius)
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2019
- Skyrim had a boring magic system. But Death Stranding does its magic so much better. Why? This video essay is about worldbuilding and what makes for a good magic system.
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Hey guys, this video took me 16 days of work to produce so I really hope you like it. I thought I'd make this comment to address the most common criticism I'm seeing here I don't have to repeat myself too much down below.
A lot of people are saying the phrase I was looking for was "Internal consistency" instead of "Internal realism". I did consider using the term but chose against it when making this video. The reason why: internal consistency is too specific a term to apply to a world as a whole being realistic.
Now consistency is of course important when creating a world, but it isn't everything.
As an example, let's say that a writer's world has it so all women have the ability to start fires with the wave of a hand. And in that world male, and female prisoners are all treated equally in that they are all put in prisons made from dry wood and kindling. Now this is incredibly unrealistic based on the rules of this world as it would make sense different genders would have different cells. It is unbelievable that female criminals would be held in any cell that is not completely inflammable and made from something like stone.
But here's the thing. Every single prison and cell in the world is consistently unrealistic in this way and not once does the writer contradict themselves.
This world is highly unrealistic, yet could also be labelled as one with internal consistency as there are zero contradictions. That is why I did not use the phrase. It is far too specific a term for a world as a whole being real.
Some people have also said a term exists called 'verisimilitude' which is essentially the same thing as 'internal realism'. I looked up the phrase and... I'll be honest it is pretty much the same thing.
You win this round comment section...
I think the confusing element, at least for me, is the idea that the term realism implies a lack of fantasy. But using it versus consistency totally makes sense for the argument. Thanks for a really interesting video!
Great video mate, this is one of the reasons why Death Stranding is one of the best video games ever made.
It's called Brandon Sanderson's Third Law of Worldbuilding.
Edit: Sorry, hadn't finished the video yet. Hahaha.
i got all the achievements for the most part in the game. magic is such a small part that make skyrim a good game. 64/75 68/75 the law system and getting people to follow the law is what make's it good. you probably dont know about the shadow guild.
I like the way you synced your narration with...skull face guy - I'm obviously not a gamer but love your content!
Fun Fact:
In Morrowind, the slaves always wear a "gauntlet" that can only be taken off if they have the key. That gauntlet has the enchantment of draining Magicka from the wearer continuously :D
and to think, back in the day I got upset that slaves didn't realize they were free when I hit them with a disintegrate armor spell and destroyed their armbands. My standards were a lot higher then...
For real?
That's very good. So it seems that using that specific mod for Skyrim which gives you anti-magic wristlock whenever you're jailed is actually a correct choice (couldn't remember the name of the mod, unfortunately)
Honestly, that just means Bethesda got lazy in their world building instead of hiring someone who did nothing but think out the ramifications of their lore. I think any video game producers that did that would see a tremendous uptick in buyer interest. The majority of people, including me, agree with OP’s position: make the rules for your world, then be consistent and follow the logical implications.
@@jaf1995ful but unfortunately Skyrim seemed to be a success in terms of copies sold. I heard that it's even higher than Oblivion, let alone the previous predecessors.
So yeah, newcomers are probably what they're aiming now, because they don't know about the history of the series yet and hence most likely complaint less and enjoy it more. I'm actually also a newcomer because Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, but fortunately I'm not a blind trend-follower and hence i learnt that previois games seemingly have more "passions" and deeper rpg-mechanics than Skyrim, generally. And since rpg and open world is my favourite genre of gaming, something like this definitely picks my interest.
Based on what you wrote above, what do you think, what's going to happen TES 6? Will it be a lot more "bare" than Skyrim?
I don't know why, somehow i want TES 6 to not be a successful title. Because if they do, the future of Elder Scrolls will be gloomier (from rpg standpoint).
@@ARQP000 - I would say that I'd hope they learn from the debacle that is Fallout 76, but Bethesda has shown us nothing that would make us believe they actually care or have passion for anything other than draining their last few loyal fans of as much money as they can.
"Khajit are banned from cities"
Nobody cares if the player is a khajit.
"Do you think dark elves shouldn't be allowed in the city?"
Why would you even ask me that when I'm a dark elf too????
Simple solution: Group only some races as the "canon story races", and have the other races be there for gameplay variety later on or something. Or, allow the player access to only certain parts of the quests or story system based on their race.
@@Thalanox I would actually love this, if the gameplay was significantly changed based on your race. It could work kind of like mount and blade warband, where if you start of as a woman or a peasant you have to work much harder to prove yourself to the lords, and even then some still wont like you.
Khajit caravans are not allowed in the cities.
As a player you are not a merchant
@@sailor5853 No, that's an excuse fans have come up with. Khajiits in general are not allowed in cities. Bethesda implemented races horrible in Skyrim, they have basically no effect on your game experience. If playing as a dark elf a dark elf still asks you if you think dark elves should be allowed in Windhelm, as if you would say "No, I hate my own kind!".
The worst sin of the Skyrim guards not taking your magic away from you is that there is an item to do just that in the games canon, the slave gauntlets from Morrowind that passively drain your magic when worn (and I'm pretty sure can't be removed by the wearer) would work fine
Like, come on, why didn't they do this?
Lazy devs 🤷
There is actually a bit where you cant do any magic; in the mind of madness quest. So the devs are capable of it just chose not to apparently.
The funny thing is that Oblivion actually takes magic into consideration when you're thrown in jail
Almost like Morrowind has been in a state of crisis, since the Oblivion Crisis, and thus exports of magical crafted items wouldn't be a priority, when the enchanters would be busy enchanting dwellings to resist the ash fall and earth quakes from the eruption, and equipping House Redoran's soldiers as they restore order and fight to repel the Argonian Invasion of House Dres' land.
One of the guys kept breaking out with the gauntlets, taking them off somehow, then putting it on npcs
What sucks about bound sword is that there is a reason why most people don’t use it, that reason is just never mentioned in game. Bound weapons are daedra who you have summoned and bent to your will. You essentially pull a demon out of hell, over power its will, and force it into the shape of a sword/bow/axe/dagger. Fail at this, and you’ve just released a dangerous, otherworldly creature into the world, AND ALL OF THIS IS NEVER MENTIONED IN GAME!
Yep its also why conjuration is a rare art, since the price of failure while learning is you've summoned a hostile demon creature that now wants to kill you and whatever else is around.
This was alluded to once at least. This one mage near Neloth's house tries to summon an Ash Guardian but fails, causing it to be summoned but immediately hostile to him (and you), triggering a small miniboss.
@@skyscall The difference between these two things is that Ash Guardians become hostile without a Heartstone core. The other atronach and bound weapon spells should just have a random chance to turn against you.
There is *one* sort-of example of this, but it involves you deliberately summoning an Unbound Dremora that you have to forcefully pacify through repeated summoning and slaying. Since the Dremora isn’t bound to you, you’re deliberately allowing it free will, which is the only way to acquire the Sigil Stone from the Deadlands past this point. A Bound Dremora or Daedra would have no compulsion to follow your commands once returned to the Deadlands, but an Unbound one forcefully subjugated would listen to your commands on fear of death again and again. Dremora still feel pain, even if they’re essentially demons.
I had fun a while ago thinking how you'd go about representing Hammerfell as a game world where Conjuration magic is banned. You'd have to have some factions that practiced it under the radar, maybe one that did so in a morally depraved way (Necromancers and/or Daedra worshippers) and another that did so with more of an internal moral code (and thus stricter rules of membership; only permitted to conjure beasts and elementals, say, and never within a city). And then what about Enchantment, since soul gems are presumably just as taboo? Do they enchant everything with Welkynd Stones? Maybe they've found a way to recycle old enchanted items (that could be quite a cool mechanic, giving the player a reason to scavenge magic items they don't need other than accruing more and more useless gold). The Star of Azura suddenly becomes a way better artifact if soul gems are illegal!
All of which is an example of how just exploring a minor worldbuilding detail in greater depth gives you loads of scope for a more interesting game. Now you have the makings of a whole alternate morality/reputation system where simply playing the way you're used to in Oblivion/Skyrim, killing bad guys and trapping their souls to use in improving your equipment, makes you the local equivalent of a rampaging necromancer.
"Destruction magic's fine. Just don't go burning down any buildings."
-Can't burn a single thing that isn't an NPC.
okay but in fairness, that's more of a game mechanic thing. buildings can burn in the elder scrolls lore
@@muggedmuffin9867 but the game mechanic is the thing that matters, i think he was talking about gameplay not being accurate
@@muggedmuffin9867 Still an immersion breaking game mechanic :p But all jokes aside, of course every single game can't allow you to burn down and destroy every structure.
I actually accidentally set a haystack on fire during one of the Blackbriar quests by walking into one with the fire spell equipped, which was pretty neat.
WRONG!1!! You can burn bee houses in riften.
the annoying part is they have thought of this, in morrowind they had shackles that drained your mana so you couldn't cast spells while wearing them.
I came down here to comment just that, but you beated me into it.
Well done. Thats a true Morrowind player.
Morrowind also did not start every character with magical skills, if you played a redguard warrior and tried to cast a spell the chance it would outright fail were significant. It took a lot of attribute and skill management to be able to effectively cast any spells!
Bump
This whole thread is great
"It just works"
@silverfoxeater I'm a pretty casual skyrim fan so forgive me but which one is Morrowind? Numerically I mean, like Skyrim is 5 so what's Morrowind?
The point that did it for me in Death Stranding was when I knocked a MULE unconscious in a fairly shallow river, and an auto-deploy floaty suddenly popped up around his neck to prevent him from drowning/dying, and putting another crater into the world.
I didnt play the game but do u mean did it for u in a good way or a bad way?
@@HMASbogan I meant it in a positive way. That tiny detail makes the world so much more believable.
As someone once put it, it matters much more whether a story's world is *convincing* rather than *realistic*
I think even Gabe Newell said something in those lines
@@Winston126 The words you mentioned were said by Emil Pagliarulo (look up his infamous presentation on game writing), the lead writer for Bethesda and possibly the worst writer currently working in video games. He's as much responsible for modern Elder Scrolls' and Fallout's (and Starfield's) shitty quality as Todd is.
My biggest gripe with magic is Mirrak. The guy spent thousands of years in a library. What type of magic does he use? : sparks, the novice level lightning spell.
He spent thousands of years in library...reading fanfics
reading tentacle hentai
@@m.thorton9305 uwu hewmewus mowwa kun
@@brunoreis4455 a life well spent
You haven't unlocked the secrets he has.
Imagine using a bound weapon as a murder weapon. You'd never have to worry about it being evidence in any trial.
But part of why I use them
That's why I started a pure mage guy. I want to look "normalish" and being able to summon death with my own power. Not some weapon or armor.
never thought of that!
@@AngelBattosai27 I'm the same, I tend to run a pure mage, that uses armor spells with perks to make my robes the same as wearing heavy armor for a while, and then use bound weapons to still be a melee warrior.
Back in Oblivion, when we could make our own spells (without needing mods to do so) I played a mage, that with a single spell cast, could summon a full set of bound armor, and sword and board, then melee right through the game (although I did have to make a second version for the Arena, since it required you to not remove the team color armor)
Imagine killing someone and not getting a 1000 gold bounty because a chicken saw you.
The thing is the prison issue was already solved in morrowind, the slaves had bracers which constantly drained your Magicka, while since you needed the key to get it off also meant you could use it to identify escaped prisoners, this could still allow loopholes for the player to exploit( a powerful enough wizard could Regen faster then it drains and shouts don't need magical) but both of those are things the guards would reasonably not expect, not like there going to use a bunch of grand soul gems to make sure too magic effects just in case the archimage of the mages guild ends up in there prison
I think it is assumed that transmute is an insanely rare spell, considering you can't actually buy it. It can only be found in two locations in the entire game after all. In light of this it actually makes sense why nobody talks about it: they don't even know it exists. Transmuting gold would be a big deal, and that's why those that know of it keep it secret.
Having a secret quest only accessible to being dragon born causing specific circumstances to occur to you would probably help better sell the idea that Transmute is a more hidden spell.
It might only be in two locations but consider the locations:
The first is an ancient nord burial chamber, so fair enough. Pretty hard to access location.
But the other is literally a bandit camp, and right next to the tome is iron and silver ore, implying bandits are indeed trying to mess up the economy
@@MythicByrdthere are forbidden spells in Harry Potter so why shouldn’t there be in TES? Could be either forbidden or the bandits raided a cave, dungeon or whatever else since you can often find them there
@@realiascailt Harry Potter is a bad magic system for similar reasons, so it’s not really a good thing to compare it to. Yes, these spells are Forbidden. In that case, why are they taught about in schools at all? Their existence should have been mass purged from memory: something that it has been shown is very possible to do.
Dragon born: gets thrown in jail
Guard: We’ve taken all your weapons. There is no way you can escape.
Dragon born: summons Minecraft enchanted bow
Exactly why I love Skyrim
Guard: I'll allow it
bruh it looks like someone summoned the "enchanted" part of the "enchanted bow" without the "bow" part so now you just have strength II
To be fair though, they want you to kill everyone in cidna mine because plot. No excuse for the other prisons though.
In Lore there are shackles used to remove casting of Spells, surprised they aren't used in later games. I know Morrowind had this system.
I just find it hilarious that there is a stressed importance placed on getting a shiv in Cidhna Mine when everyone has pickaxes.
You can kill 'em with a pickaxe
You can shank 'em with a shiv
You can take a chunk of silver or a rock to do them in.
Oh it doesn't really matter
And nobody really cares
Wipe out all of Markarth and then "steal" all of their wares
Same. I was like "Allright, THIS is why I've prepared my mind itself to be a weapon!" - but then the game just said that the Archmage of Winterhold should find a shiv instead.
Bound sword and bow exist too
Plus you can carry around the pickaxe without being suspicious to the guards, since well it's a prison mine. And they should do A LOT more damage than the shiv, making it a far better easy to access weapon
@@mateocoglianio1965 But they dont need to worry about guards since they only enter to clear out ore and bodies and leave food, they are left entirely unsupervised otherwise, so they need their weapons to not be spotted by other prisoners as opposed to guards. They actually say this in the game that most people tend to see a pickaxe coming (because obviously) and that's why shiv's are sought after.
The worst part of Skyrim’s Magic System is that there’s leftover assets in the game code that shows Bethesda was planning on fleshing it out.
There’s hidden dialogue in the game specifically for Necromancy, which will cause guards and citizens to berate you and scorn you if you’re traveling with a raised entity. They call you a “filthy Necromancer”, and demand you leave. Even something this small would have been massive, and it takes the modding community adding it back in for the world to be given some form of life. It’s a disappointment.
While Transmute Ore is a rare and difficult to cast spell, I can see how that one still has a potential to destroy Gold based economies. But that Spell aside, I don't think Skyrim's Magic would make physical weapons obsolete. Some Mages the player can trade with, drop occasionally a line, "that you may want to go to the college of Winterhold IF you have the aptitude". There is even a short random encounter with a would be wizard who tried to apply for Winterhold with his grandfather's magic staff but got rejected because he himself had no talent. So Wizards while powerfull would be few and far in between.
2 month old comment, but the sheer abundance of random bandit mages kind of puts this idea to bed.
If this was the case, the world wouldn’t have so many random bandit mages
The powerful, elite wizards would. But a basic magic users would still be abundant (like bound sword users), as anyone can learn magic in Skyrim.
@@strongerthanever2039 I don't think that's true. Like yes, any type of player character you make has magical aptitudes, but it is implied that most people do not.
Even if only 20% of the population were magically gifted, it would explain the amount of bandit mages and other magic users in the world.
Something like abound sword would be a lot more common, and there would probably be elite troops or a somehow differentiated class of soldiers that can also use magic, and all the implications that brings to the table.
Then there's also the question of just how easy it is to learn and cast these spells. Sure, the game mechanics oversimplify it, making the learning instant, but the spellbooks have a cost. Perhaps this not only represents the book itself, but materials used that are necessary for doing the learning. It could be that a bound sword is much more expensive or much harder to learn than creating a steel sword.
@@TheGallantDrake Bandit mages show exactly why the Transmute Ore spell is a huge flaw in the game's worldbuilding, although if you think about it, if these magic-wielding bandits could simply transmute iron into gold, then why the heck are they even... bandits in the first place? Why risk your life attacking random people on the road to rob them of their valuables--which you would subsequently fence for gold--when you can simply quite literally "print money" at home from commonly available materials?
Well, I guess that these bandit mages could rob shipments from iron mines if they didn't feel like hacking the ores out of the earth themselves or buying them from blacksmiths.
Larry Niven said about world building “If you invent the car, you have to invent the traffic jam.”
That’s the most awesome quote I heard all day!
Have no idea who the dude is it’s GOOD!
Ali Juhdi he wrote some great scifi
@@AliTheHighest Do you know what a ringworld is?
Stathis Blackbird through Stellaris and other Sci-Fi video games.
@@AliTheHighest I think the first one to "invent" the ringworld was Niven. I remember that the first 2 books are very good.
"There are THOUSANDS of characters. Dozens of secret organizations"
And about 5 voice actors
70, actually.
elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Voice_Cast_(Skyrim)
about half of which voice only 1 character.
@@vaendryl So, the same effect when you're just walking around town, soaking in the (lack of) verisimilitude in Skyrim's expansive world.
funny misinformed comment, 50 likes.
short boring comment correcting it with a real source.
2 likes.
*this is why we can't have nice things*
@@thiccboss4780 *Thinking likes mean anything*
THIS is why we can't have nice things
@@wowsuchhandle Not like the arbitrary concept of "likes" mean any substantial relevance on its own.
But still affects exposure, and exposure matters, because it decides what gets seen and remembered and what gets buried and ignored.
My biggest probleme with Sykrim is that you never really feel to be part of world. The most immersive way people react to you are are the guards dropping the Dragonborn line and the few random encounters when some Thalmor agents or assassins trying to hunt you down or the letters you get from couriers. Aside from that it's most of the time like playing a nobody you can slay multiple Dragons, clearing dozens of Dungeons helping countless of NPCs but most of the time you get 0 recognition from the world around you, also the world doesn't change at all despite given the influence over the world or at least over some regions many quests have it just doesn't really feel like you are part of the world.
You can be the greatest hero of Skyrim and still NPCs will treat you like some random farmer.
Probably intentional since it's an RPG. They want you to supply your own persona onto the character, they don't want to Lore you into a mold.
@robertanderson4921
And that works. In the BEGINNING. After you've slayed a dragon, the citizens in the nearest town should start treating you as a friggin hero. Clear out the neighboring bandit camp? People should give you a nickname, and revere you. Slay Alduin and stop the LITERAL END OF THE WORLD? They should treat the player as the literal god they are.
This is why Skyrim is so unimmersive. NPCs don't change, at all. You're still that "random farmer" from the beginning of the game, even while having made pacts with all 13 Daedric Princes, met gods, been to the literal afterlife, are decked out in dragon bone armour, which is only obtainable (random dumb drops notwithstanding) by killing MULTIPLE dragons, and saved the literal world THREE times. The player should be revered. As hero or villain, the people should ACT like they're the literal savior of the world.
@@robertanderson4921that breaks immersion because the world isn’t reacting to your actions. It’s a very poor way of solving that design challenge.
The game is like crack I can’t stop playing it even tho I noticed all these problems that it has
soooo true
you can literally save the whole city, slay 100 dragons, and guards will still be like “let me guess, someone stole your sweet roll?”
that’s why i love mods that overhaul npcs relationship with / attitude towards the player
I think in Skyrim you have to accept that the Developers were forced by higher-ups to rush the development. So in lore we know magic is rare in Skyrim because nords are afraid of it, but in gameplay it's inconsistent because time was not on the Devs side. So I just trust what the npc's say about the world and try to remember my gameplay may not always match the lore.
Well I also think a lot of the newer lore created for Skyrim seems specifically designed to reduce how much they would need to include in Skyrim unlike Morrowind or Oblivion.
E.g. the Great Collapse seems to be just an excuse not to include Winterhold as a real city. The magic phobia as a reason not to have a mage guild in every city, the Companions as an excuse to only have one Fighters Guild. The Nord pantheon is almost completely missing, including their god of magic...
No. You do not.
"Guards make the effort of removing all weapons and armor before throwing anyone in prison."
*Camera slowly pans to Lydia, fully decked out in metal armor brandishing a greatsword*
I never realised that because the first time I did that quest I didn't have a follower with me. If you followers can accompany you into the prison while still keeping all of their gear then that's an even more gross oversight on the devs part, an extremely funny one I might add too! *XD*
God I never bring a follower around since I prefer stealth, that is such an obvious issue
“Skyrim never once came close to immersing me.”
*MxR Mods would like to know your location.*
yes, mxr is so good that itll keep your virginity
To be fair, MxR focuses on mods that make Skyrim more immersive.
Kyle Thomas That’s the point. My comment meant that MxR wants to know his location so that he can introduce him to modding.
@@atlasprime6193 don't know if he's covered a mod that prevents you from casting spells in jail. Most of the mods with bondage are BDSM variety.
@@kylethomas9130 oh the bdsm stuff does prevent u from casting magic in jail.
I get the feeling that transmute is either non-diagetic in Skyrim, just there so the player will craft anything other than iron daggers; or that the wizard who invented it got hit by those bandits, their leader learned the spell, and that's why they're hanging out in that mine.
There is also the fact that the mages in Skyrim have small mana pools compared to what a player can have. That bandit probably nearly passed out every time they use that spell.
It's not like it's this tiny amount of magika it's most of what normal mages have at there disposal. And sure it recovers but the players experience isn't universal. It wouldn't be possible for normal or even higher mages to do what he's talking about. And it would still be more profitable to just fucking sell the gold. Making proper coins that would be convincing would be far to much effort if you can just sell it or make jewelry and make even more than the gold normally would be worth. Yes it poses inflation issues but it's not a something that you can industrialize to make infinity money. fully draining most of your magika for hours constantly isn't smart. What if some random asshole comes and attacks you. Oh wait the player is that random asshole.
@@necrogirl2021 I think "the player's experience isn't universal" is part of the central thesis of the whole video. Immersion is constantly being broken because it feels like there's one set of rules for you and a completely different set for everyone else. And there are plenty of worlds that can get away with this because the player _is_ something completely different from most of the inhabitants (Warframe comes to mind), but Skyrim doesn't feel like that. You're a chosen hero of legend, but you're not meant to feel like a complete outsider.
@@TwilitbeingReboot yeah, Skyrim is a shitty power fantasy, your a mortal with a dragons soul. Sure they use the same perks magic weapons armor, but you can customize, create use items and most importantly shouts.
The game is set up to make you feel like you're not normal, not part of the world. Your not just some legend your the last dragon born, the one who will kill the world eater and stop the universe from ending. Killing the second most powerful dragon that ever lived. Mods tint peoples perspectives heavily. I have several and have made several to balance magic and other things to my specific liking. It doesn't really fix that magic in Skyrim just feels bad to use. It's just a reskinned weapon. Which for me feels bad to use.
Lorewise, I think the reason why guards in Chidna Mine didn't do anything to counter player's ability to cast magic is mainly caused by the fact the most Nords despised magic (which we all know why; winterhold accident). The other reason is that most nords (at least in legal region) such as guards, warriors, hunters don't use magic. If you look closely, you'll find that those who use magic are either bandits or Thalmor.
This was my biggest gripe personally. It's the same reason that nobody would want to use a spell from the conjuration school instead of old reliable.
Plus taking enchantments and enhancing weapons into account actual weapons are far better. Especially since the only way to improve the damage of a bound weapon is to be an incredibly powerful conjuration mage. The only thing you need to do with physical swords is use better material then the second worst material in the game.
Crazy how that's even more of a reason to have a countermeasure against mages you're imprisoning and reminder this is a setting where teleportation magic exists and even if it was made illegal canonically (this was done to fix most quest progression errors from occurring) that doesn't stop a criminal from using illegal teleportation or levitation magic (levitation was thrown out so they could make cities be inside interiors) because they don't care about the law
Nu-uh, the prisoners are almost all bretons in cidha mine which is a magic Base race
doesn't make much sense. If they despise magic then they would definitely have anti-magic measures for jails.
especially considering the winterhold accident.
@@lucasramey6427I hope in TES6 we will get lavitation magics back and teleportation magics we can learn. like we SEE people use them IN SKYRIM as you said.
Imagine how great it would be for an innkeeper to tell you to avoid eating at another inn because the owner "uses magic flames to cook the food, which always gives it a funny taste."
This guy gets it.
UT?
Best part is that using magic flames to cook might not change anything, but the simple fact that nords would waste their time being supersticious (or simply say that about the competition to boost their own profits) makes sense.
Not saying the nords are idiots, I'm saying their culture in Skyrim is. (as in, Bethesda failed to it feel organic)
*And then* imagine if you went to the other innkeeper just to find him praising his food as "magical" while discouraging you to eat at the other innkeeper.
@@jazzy3724 maybe that'd be the Winterhold innkeeper.
23:33
"It's time to do Bethesda's job for them"
Bethesda modding community: Welcome to our world
"First time, hah?"
More like: "Welcome to true man's world."
yh with the magic in prison thing there was literally a mod that gave magic cancleing binds to prisoners lmao
@@losfrail6142
JoJo dog whistling is now my new favorite thing
Became a huge thing ever since Fallout 3 lmao
Another thing I love about timefall is that you can actually see the plants grow and die constantly when it's raining, and how your boots deteriorate faster when you're walking in snow, which would obviously be timefall snow, AND how the gold stuff (chirelium? I forgot) is more timefall resistent as it does come from beings that exist within timefall
timefall becomes normal water once it touches somehing so i dont think its that i think its just in general walking in snow would be worse for footwear
Magic is actually pretty rare in Skyrim lorewise. It makes sense that the guards wouldn't expect you to be a mage.
That's completely incorrect literally everyone has the capability of casting spells even children can easily cast spells it's just (more recently in the timeline) less trusted by a singular race in the game and even then it's basically only mentioned in the areas around winterhold because that's where the college is while every hold has a court wizard and even on the opposite side of the spectrum random bandits have access to magic it is nowhere near "rare" it's pretty common just not as visibly common as something like morrowind who's main population is primarily casters or oblivion which is literally the empire of the world
@@lucasramey6427lore wise
@@zenthossohtnez8331 That just makes the game even more inconsistent. If magic is supposed to be rare, then why does everyone and their chicken know one or two spells?
@@t_kups8309
Most named NPC don't know magic.
@@t_kups8309my guy because most of said lore isn’t accessible in game. It can’t really make the game itself inconsistent if you’d have to explore sources outside of said game to argue it’s inconsistent. What the game offers you is actually pretty damn consistent lol.
Blacksmith sales pitch: "real steel can't be dispelled."
Also, when the soldier holding it dies, it can be picked up by another soldier.
Also, also; you don't have to fall back every few minutes to resummon a steel sword.
Also also also: summoning swords is for pussies.
"Enchanted weapons are better than bound blades. Heck, I could even enchant a fork stronger than anything you could summon!"
Also, also, also, also: magical swords seem to produce their own light. In a cave system, or at night, you could see the magical sword from miiiiiles.
“It’s time to do Bethesda’s job for them.” Said ever single person trying to mod fallout 76 ever.. I like it mate
Or modding any Bethesda games lmao
the reason bethesda still exists as a studio is because people decided to do their job for them
Forgot I'd seen this before, but I have theories on two other problems.
First, the lack of anti-magic measures in the prisons. Nords mostly don't trust magic, so it stands to reason they'd lack the experience in dealing with it to prevent inmates from using it. As for Cidhna Mine specifically, it's likely the guards let you keep your magic specifically because they assumed you'd 'take out' Madanach for them. This might also be why Thonar Silver-Blood is waiting for you at the exit.
As for Transmute, a lack of lore behind this spell might be the explanation itself. How many people actually know this spell? You can't exactly buy it from any of the court wizards. You can only pick it up in two locations, so it's highly possible that almost no one in Skyrim knows that spell but the Dragonborn. Besides, transmuting common metals into gold was an extremely common goal in real life folklore.
if they dont trust magic then they would damn well have anti-magic measures in place.
especially considering how many bandit mages roam skyrim.
its not like magic is unknown to nords, the college of winterhold is very well known afterall.
To be honest, I don't remember seeing any lore or dialogue stating that ANYONE can use magic. In fact, there is a random encounter with a guy named Nelicar where he can sell you a staff that is out of charges. He also has a line of dialogue where he specifically states that he was told by the College mages that the magic was in the staff and not in him.
EXACTLY, it's like they assumed everyone was exactly like the player in ability to learn shit.
the player could also be naturally gifted at it cuz dragonborn 'n stuff@@generalgarchomp333
"If anyone had the ability to print money the world would look like this:" *shows images of Argentina*
Hahahaha
?
Entendí esa referencia xD
Es muy triste :(
ey eso dolió
Actually, I do remember a single instant of that "transmute mineral" spell getting mentioned. A bandit, if they don't know you're there, may randomly mention something along the lines of: "Wizards have that secret magic. Turning wood to gold. Wish I could do that.". That is the only time I've ever heard about it.
There's a group of bandits in an iron mine and they have transmute ore there. Implying that they would turn the iron to gold
@@pachicore yeah it's a unique spell only found in that mine
@@tomcollett24 Definitely not unique to that mine.
@@AV-bm2kq I have 1.5k hours in Skyrim and never found the book anywhere else but in the Halted Stream Camp and the Ansilvund Burial Chambers, so don't go arround spouting bullshit that it spawns in random loot...
@@shahan10able can confirm,those are the only 2 places that spell spawns without mods.
I know this is an old video but, it’s pretty explicit in the game that magic is very difficult to learn, and it’s very dangerous. Also culturally magic is very mistrusted and even downright hated in Skyrim, so it would make sense that everyone isn’t just running around casting magic. Also bound magic weapon spells are said to be minor daedra in lore which would make it even more dangerous.
I was just coming in here to comment this myself
yeah i feel like the entire premise of the video is wrong because these things are pretty easily explained in the literal exact way he says they should be. Why isnt magic use more widespread? why isnt everyone running around with bound weapons? Because Nords have a cultural fear and distrust of magic... its repeated ad nauseum throughout the entire game... were you not paying attention dude? literally every question you asked was answered and literally does have physical, cultural and historical effects on the world... what are you even talking about? Did you ignore the entire college of winterhold segment? He also needs to learn to seperate gameified mechanics from lore implications. we play as a "chosen one" who can literally do anything. everyone else is bound by many many rules. magic is inherently difficult as well, the "level" of spell is irrellevant as it assumes you have even the basic affinity to wield magic in the first place. Being able to use magic in the elder scrolls at all is incredibly difficult, not "just anyone" can learn to use magic.
But everyone is running around casting magic
Right, but that doesn't make it much better, because that isn't reinforced via gameplay. Good lore should be reinforced by gameplay (example: dark soul's cruel world reinforced by harsh difficulty)
Imagine that in our world a nation, who hates firearms exists and it is not destroyed centuries ago.
You wanted to defend the world building of Skyrim but instead destroyed it
I remember a book I was reading where alchemy (similar to skyrim's transmute) was shunned because only one otherworlder knew how to really use it. By the time the MC appears he has to explain to the people close to him how it works. And they still think he is trying to trick them.
“Skyrim never immersed me when it should’ve”
Dragonborn: *crouches in from of enemy
Enemy: *where did he go!?*
Pro tip - doesn't work with Earth police
@@cosmogoblin does this have a story behind it?
@@kyle18934 I exercise my 5th amendment right to silence ;)
or being crouched 5 ft in front of the enemy, but they do not see you
@@cosmogoblin frodo baggans picture" ok keep your secrets you"
"4 whole playthroughs"
*235 Hours Played*
_Get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers_
1/75 achievements and 235 hours played, I really think thats actually impossible xD
@@samueldossantossable Nah, when you play with mods it disables the ability to get achievements.
Yup, over a k hours in Skyrim and I have like 3 achievements 😂
It's probably the Special edition wplay tile counter too no ?
There are mods that allow one to bypass the "mods disable achievements" thing. Hell, there are mods that add a savegame with various "savestates" in a room where you can teleport in various situations and quickly grab most tedious achievements, like riding 5 dragons or completing long drawn out main questline objectives.
When I got thrown into that prison, I had teleportation spells. I can't remember if they were added by a mod or not, so it was even more hilarious to me that I could teleport out of the prison whenever I felt like it.
It is in fact from a mod however teleportation spells exist in the setting they're called "mark" and "recall" how they work is you use mark to mark a location and recall to teleport to that marked location beyond that there's teleportation gates and circles that are linked to other gates and circles
I Loved that spell and in the future could not find the mod again which contained that spell :/
@@einholzstuhl252 i think it might be "Teleportation Spell and Mark and Recall Spell", i used it during a mage playthrough and it was great having a lore reason to zip around skyrim like that, felt like a real wizard
Same thing with me lol I had the “blink spell” mod
Transmute Metal Ore also pokes another hole in the quest you mentioned where you get thrown in prison; the SIlver-Blood family in Markarth got where they are by using prisoner labor to mine silver... imagine if they had a wizard on the payroll who could transmute the ore into gold for them. They wouldn't just own Markarth, they'd own the western half of Skyrim.
The term you’re looking for is grounded. A grounded world doesn’t need to mean it’s the same as ours, it just means that it’s internally consistent
Verisimilitude
In media it's often referred to as suspension of disbelief.
Internal consistency is what I was thinking
@@cinezach because if something is grounded doesn't "suspend" you off the ground in your disbelief? now that's smarter than I thought
@@cinezach suspension of disbelief is different, though connected. That's specifically referring to how much an audience is able or not able to tolerate unbelievable elements of a story, and how certain things can take us out of the story. But this depends on numerous factors.
Suspension of disbelief is referring to the audience experiencing the story, not the story itself.
A Grounded, internally consistent world requires *less* suspension of disbelief, true. But it is also more sensitive to things that may trigger our sense of disbelief. Even a completely grounded world can break that suspension if characters act irrationally or make unbelievable decisions, because we no longer *believe* the story, disbelief has returned. And this is a story element disconnected from world building.
This can go the other way as well. Suspension of disbelief is dependent on our preconceptions of the world the story takes place in. So we are more inclined to suspend our disbelief for something like a Looney Tunes cartoon or even a particularly outrageous but funny comedy than we are for a gritty drama, biopic, or WW2 period piece.
The problem is that Skyrim's immense world building *implies* internal consistency, and asks for audience immersion. It has details of historical events, religions, races, art, and so on. It wants us to buy in that this could be a real place. So our suspension of disbelief accounts for that when reacting to inconsistencies in its universe.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing either. Our disbelief may apply just to the story taking place, a certain character decision we don't buy, or as noted the world itself.
I think the term you’re looking for is “Internal Consistency” or “Internal Logical Consistency”.
That basically describes if the world follows its own rules.
That term is mostly used in research and statistics, but it is occasionally used in discussions of fiction stories too.
- I also love the video btw
Thanks. I did consider using the term internal consistency but I chose against it. It's too specific a term for having a world as a whole be real.
Essentially what it means is nothing in the world contradicts each other. The problem is: making a fictional world a realistic one is far more complex than simply not contradicting yourself in the lore.
Consistency is of course important for having a believable world, but it isn't everything.
You can have the foundation of the economy in your world make no sense and have it beg the question as to how the economy hasn't crashed yet. However, it hasn't actually contradicted itself as it is consistently unrealistic in that way. That world, despite being unrealistic, could be labelled as one with internal consistency. That's why I hesitated to use the phrase.
I see your dilemma. Thanks for the response. I’m glad and not surprised that you thought it out carefully.
@@coolaj56 not to carefully, he didn't think for one second about who the nords were and their hatred for magic to the point where they would be defenseless from magic attacks.
If the nords didn't consider magic just because they don't like it, in spite of the fact that half the population knows how to wield it, they're utter and complete idiots and would have been kicked out of their lands long ago. In fact I rather doubt such a group of imbeciles could even create any kind of semi advanced society to begin with. That would be akin to hating violence and consequently not having an army despite having a raging horde of barbarians living next door.
@@Skabbe1 oh you mean like the empire that beat their sorry asses? you know the ones that use magic? and own the country now? and the half you bring up are: A hag covens, B criminals, Cvampires, D possible cannibals, E deadric cults, F madman, G mage collage members which are bullied by the nords, H immigrants from morrowind, I healing clerics, J and the dragonborne, almost all of which the nords hate.
Yes Hideo Kajima deserves the bare minimum credit for stuff like "the magic time accelerating rain makes it so only moss, a quick growing and short lived organism, is the only thing to survive and thrive". But at the same time, he is also the guy who said "this 80 year old guy in full head-to-toe ghillie suit? He can sit still for weeks because of photosynthesis. This woman who has the same photosynthesis as the old guy? She NEEDS to wear nothing more than a bikini or else she dies because not enough sunlight. Also she can't ever speak a language because she knows too many secrets and a bomb in her neck will kill her. Also she drinks water through her skin so this shower scene is completely necessary." Not to mention the fact that if someone doesn't get what he was trying to do with something he straight up calls them stupid.
Fr, I agree with u
I was agreeing with you until the Quiet part.
Like as i guess cool as death stranding seems, theres a lot of nonsensical shit together with like a few strings connecting them just you can say “Ha! See? It all fits.” It can make sense, doesn’t mean it’s not batshit crazy or nonsensical.
Bro you're right, that 80 year old sniper guy better be butt naked in the MGS3 remake for lore consistency.
based Kojima
I gotta say you really illuminated the biggest problem with magic for me in Skyrim. I feel I understand now and have a deeper knowledge of what makes a good fantasy magic system, and what doesn't.
Anyway, time to go make my fifteenth mage character in Skyrim.
Oh yeah, even Ulfric was gagged to stop shouts earlier in the intro. They could have done something interesting with using shouts only, because they wouldn't expect anyone to have the power
Problem is the game can't assume you have any shouts either. It is totally possible to just ignore the main quest and never get any shouts.
@@Poldovico i mean, I'm certain it's possible to add a tag to your character if it is known they know how to shout and have different dialog options or scenarios. I mean hell, Bastion (2011), the first game of the indie company Super Giant Games managed to have realistic reactive dialog that reacted to what you were doing. I'm sure a giant like Bethesda could have made it so you get gagged if you're known to be the Dragonborn or you get put into a higher security cell if youa managed to escape one too many times
@@EricGreenFrightened-Crayfish That's not what I meant. Char10tti3 was suggesting the Cidhna mine quest could cut you off from both weapons AND magic, forcing you to rely only on Shouts. Because it's possible to never unlock Shouting, that would run the risk of blocking the player in prison with no way out ever.
@@Poldovico I mean, there is a quest to get a weapon. And with level scaling it's also very much possible to be stuck in the mine with "flames" as your only spell and have your character super high level but no good combat options.
Also you don't have to fight to escape cidhna mine anyway.
So yeah, locking magic out would really not create softlocks. Also you can do it creatively, like, add a collar that massively debuffs magicka, meaning you either have to be a powerful wizard which they didn't account for you being so powerful, or you have to find a way to remove the collar, which could be done through lockpicking or through a quest.
Basically be an rpg.
@@Laezar1 That could work. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided has a DLC that was basically built on that premise
Morrowind has those slave bracers that nullify your magicka.
I had to search for this comment cause that's exactly what I was thinking. Skyrim just kinda lacks the minute attention to detail that Morrowind had
But someone else pointed out that Nord culture just doesn't think about magic much, its not really widely available or encouraged. In Morrowind magic is really commonplace so the dark elves take precautions as an every day thing. When some burly northmen toss you in a prison for stealing a loaf of bread or something they aren't going to make sure you haven't studied the magical arts that probably less than 1% of the population knows.
@@ShadowTheDeathhog Yeah, Nord culture doesn't like magic, but it doesn't change the fact that there are necromancers roaming about, hags and forsworn spellslingers, an entire college of magic and a wizard with every jarl... even the regular bandits used magic.. there's plenty of magic out and about.. it would make more sense to defend and seal magic from all these spell wielders, no civilization is that ignorant.. and they also gagged Ulfric to deal with his shouts (granted it Imperials that gagged him, but if they can figure that out Nords can do it too).. and Skyrim has been under empire rule forever now.. just because you don't like magic doesn't mean you don't learn how to defend against it when it's clearly used and practiced in combat..
*Edit* Even the Drauger wield spells.. Nord civilization isn't ignorant of magic, it's been in their history, look at the Gauldur Amulet quest.. In Sovengard they have plenty of wizards/archmages throughout the ages..
Well... Morrorwind has actually good worldbuilding.
Yeah, on the whole the jail system is undercooked. Like so much else. Morrowind is still the best, just waiting for Skywind!
@@Junkzillabox Yea but you are the dragonborn that is interacting with tonnes of magic since your daily life consists of fighting high tier opponents like high elves (that know magic) and going into random caves and such. The average person in skyrim rarely if ever encounters magic.
I have to say for the magic thing if you ask around inns and taverns "Where can I learn magic" They always respond negatively implying that you shouldn't go or are "Weak" for learning magic. In the lore of the game games Nords (Skyrim is a Nordic region) Hate magic as much as they hate elves. Now I know you showed people using magic but they were Thalmor (High elves) and a I forget her name, but she was basically a Reachmen witch, SO by all means magic is supposed to be a rare thing, especially among nords (Cannonically the PC is a Nord and Bethesda being as lazy as they are built the game around that Idea), so it would be perfectly reasonable to believe that the player character had no magic. Now if the game led you to believe it was common when it's not supposed to be then you could argue that it is still a flaw on the game's part since it didn't properly build the world like that
@privateuser3726
That's all the more reason to have anti-magick systems in place. For the same reason all the Holds have court wizards. Magick EXISTS, and every man/mer/beast can use it. Its mere existence, even despised by the Nords, REQUIRES a countermeasure.
And besides, in a culture like Nords, mage-persecution would be rampant. They would ACTIVELY discriminate against mage users, and there would guaranteed be anti-mage precautions in place. They distrust magick and magick users. All would be jailed with countermeasure to prevent them using it, or they'd be under scrutiny from either the local guards or their Nord neighbors. Skyrim is dumb.
With the bound sword spell, there would also be in increase in spear and polearm weapons as to counter all of the words, and as now that you don’t have a sword, you have a space to also hold another weapon now that you don’t need to deal with carrying around a sword.
Transmute Ore would have been dope if you could hit early- to mid-level bandits with it and turn their armor from iron/steel to gold. I suspect it sucks to have your armor suddenly quadruple in weight and become far more malleable.
Right! I wish Skyrim's magic worked in a "My treasure, your torture" sort of system. Like "I could use the flames spell to keep a magic torch in my hand, or I could use it to burn you to death."
But they aren’t wearing made of ore lmao
But then they'd just stop being bandits because now they have several pounds of gold.
@@thuranz2773 You find this spell in a bandit den.
@@thuranz2773 *Several hundred pounds of armor-shaped gold with lots of holes in it and difficult-to-remove blood- and shit stains on the inside.
(And, as the video postulates, gold would be worthless in a world with that spell.)
I remember slaves in morrowind has bracers that constantly drained their magicka, which made sense. They didnt want any slaves teleporting or fighting back thanks to magic.
I know, the video is old, but as an avid Skyrim player, I have to add a few important comments:
1. Actually, the Bound Sword is much worse than the real sword. The Bound Sword cannot be enchanted or improved with a Grindstone. If you compare the Bound Sword to a maximally improved real sword, the difference in damage is huge!
2. We don't know the characteristics of the Bound Sword: strength, sharpness, weight, and so on. Perhaps these characteristics of the Bound Sword are also inferior to the real sword.
3. The Bound Sword is summoned for a limited time. How can a soldier go into battle if this weapon can disappear at any moment? This is absurd!
4. During a surprise attack, you are also at a disadvantage since it takes some time to summon the sword. At such moments, a second's delay can cost a life.
5. A person may run out of mana, be unable to cast a spell and be completely defenseless.
As a result, no one in their right mind would use the Bound Sword on a regular basis, as it is ineffective and extremely unreliable.
Also, why do you think that everyone in Skyrim is equally capable of magic? The vast majority of them use physical weapons rather than magic. The College of Winterhold accepts a player only if he shows his talent. At many points in the game, npcs mention a talent for magic. According to The Elder Scrolls lore, some races have greater potential for magic than others. This means that people have different levels of potential for magic, and some don't have it at all.
Bound items are sweet. Now lemme show you this by voiding your 5 points
1. Bound Sword and all Bound items stats can be found on the skyrim wiki. Base stat is 9 which can be improved to 14 with a perk. So the base stats are the same as an imperial sword, upgraded is the stats of a base daedra sword. Considering this is a novice spell thats pretty reasonable. You are right on one detail. They cannot be improved other than the perk. But bound bow with the perk is similar to an upgraded daedric bow (bound bow with perk does 24 damage while base daedric bow is 19) Plus the 100 Bound arrows that are equal to daedra arrows. Daedra arrows aren't cheap either, so having free DAEDRA arrows so early in the game is almost OP. Also all of these weapons are weightless. If you are trying to squeeze room for more dragonscales to sell, its convenient to not have to carry around an extra bow, sword, battleaxe, etc.
2. We know the characteristics so scratch 2.
3. Limited time?? 120seconds is hardly a short time for a battle. Does it take you longer than 2 minutes to kill an enemy?
4. Skyrim enemies should never be able to take you by surprise, you should be the one surprising lol It takes literally 1 second to cast. Same amount of time as conjuring a familiar
5. If you're smart you only have to cast it once per battle so why would you run out of mana? Casting it several times is not a big deal but you shouldn't need to.
lol you basically made the same point twice, 1 and 2 so maybe you are the one not in the right mind?
Are bound items endgame items? No, upgraded physical weapons usually have them beat, but if bound items allow someone to be doing daedric damage so early in the game with no weight to worry about, You'd be out of your mind to not consider them.
@@dee_wade I don't know if you did this on purpose, but you commented on the topic only from a gameplay point of view. While the author of the video examines the practical use of the Bound Sword for the ordinary people, its impact on everyday life and the economy of Skyrim if it were closer to reality.
@@yuummorosa I prematurely commented, lol before watching the whole video. I actual agree with your rationale about how lorewise not everyone has magic. And that makes me forgive the lack of precautions protecting from magic users. If only select individuals can use magic, I don't think bound items would disrupt the economy. Thoughts?
@@dee_wade well, a small number of mages is a reasonable argument, but I'm not sure if it justifies the prison problem. Also, nords have a prejudice against magic, which further reduces the number of mages. But still, it’s hard to believe that over the years of Skyrim’s existence there have been no cases of arrests of mages. Also, there are slave bracers from Morrowind that constantly drain mana, so I agree with the author on this issue.
You're right that the limited number of magic users is the main reason why the Bound Sword wouldn't affect the economy. The spell's disadvantages are also quite significant imho, so it wouldn't have become widespread anyway.
4:26 I know this is an old video, but would you normally pronounce inventory like that, wouldn't it be more like inven-tree? Normally brits say tree for the end, not tory. Just curious.
The word that you were looking for is Verisimilitude. Literally: "The appearance of being true or real."
It's commonly used to mean a work of fiction being internally consistent, rather than just "gritty" or "real"
your comment should be on top.
I was thinking the exact same thing! People would also talk about breaking or maintaining the "suspension of disbelief"
You should teach that word to Bethesda
Finally someone got it, we were taught this word in film school, and it’s exactly as described in the video
I think also "internal consistency" is applicable as well. Consistency is extremely important to realism, as when a thing behaves a certain way one time and a different way another - or when a mechanic is considered for one aspect of worldbuilding but ignored when developing another - with no explanation or reason, it can be very easily break immersion.
I thought we were just gonna talk about how shit magic is to use in skyrim. This was much more interesting
I thought the exact same!
That's because it's less about the magic and more about the fact that Bethesda doesn't focus on the interactions between their game mechanics and lore.
yea, but i also gotta say its pretty dumbed down compared to oblivion, less possibilities less creativity less ways to improve.
Filthy Casual and what’s sadder is that oblivion’s magic system is dumbed down from morrowind’s
I havent yet watched a video and i find it so fun to read these comments about absolutely random parts of skyrim that seem so unrelated to the video title. Love this stuff
Interestingly, the slaves in Morrowind had bracers that have a constant effect drain magicka by three for each bracer. A key is needed to unlock them and free the slaves. It's a nice touch that uses the ingame magic system to show how they would keep prisoners from using magic.
I think it's a little difficult to judge the magic system in Skyrim because it is essentially a watered down version of the magic systems elaborated in Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind. In those three games (and, to a lesser extent, Oblivion) the magic system makes a lot of sense in the world and is largely explained by the lore.
The real tragedy is that a lot of the necessary worldbuilding for Skyrim was already done years ago but it was thrown away when they made the game. Take the Shouts, for example. In the old lore, Nords were like D&D barbarians and it was explained that they didn't wear armour because the power of the Voice made it redundant. They didn't build siege machinery because they could just Shout down enemy walls. There was good lore for Skyrim that could have made it a more coherent setting. Same is true for Oblivion's Cyrodiil.
Well, it is a game after all, and balance is a thing. And if you couldjust blow up walls and houses with no delay like in lore, then nothing would stand before you, leveling uo would do little and if there was somethin that didnt blow up with your shouts you would just be upset again that it didnt and therefore didnt show realism.
They could've explained shouts being lost as "the empire outlawed it's teachings" and it'd add to the civil war plotline aswell.
Hell, it would make the Greybeards feel more mystical and powerful being the sole exception.
And then most of them died in a failed invasion of Morrowind, that caused the main example of Dwemer and Chimer/Dunmer uniting. With the warriors dead the people who knew the shouts were a monastic order that shuns using the Voice for violence, and only dragonborn were able to learn shouts without major training. Let alone learning the voice would have been way easier back when dragons were still common.
They don’t even know their own lore though. They use fan wikis to keep track
Yes, the Nords from Atmora, and the nords who spoke the Dragon Tongue in their day to day lives like the Draugr, DID use the voice for such reasons. But the trade tongue in the world changed. The Nords of the time sent Alduin away in time; they hunted the dragons and slew the dragon priests, seeking freedom from their masters, much like how the Imperials overthrew their Aldmeri masters in ages long past. The dragon tongue stopped being practical as it was no longer needed to understand your slave overlords, and learning a language that has the capacity to kill you or the people around you through a simple slip of the tongue isn't ideal, so they learned the language of their southern neighbors they traded with. The dragon tongue became lost except among the greatest religous hermits atop the throat of the world, and so the barbarian tribes of skyrim modernized. They began wearing armor, they began building siege weapons. Magics became shunned due to their associations with Elves and Dragons, and so the magical arts in Skyrim dwindled until only healers, court mages, and members of local cults of the college in Winterhold practiced magic to any level of mastery, leaving most nords with at most a novice's comprehension of magic, casting spells like 'flames' which would in-setting at most cause light surface burns before a guard cuts them down.
This is even reflected in the ECONOMY of the games; a Grand Soul Gem, filled with a Grand Soul in Cyrodill in the time of the Oblivion Crisis costs 500 septims. The same is true in Skyrim, when regarding the objective value. But the price you buy these items at varies vastly; maximum prices the average player encounters in Oblivion is around 180% base price. In Skyrim, the lowest price increase over base you can expect from a vendor is 200% base price; the default ranges up to 320%. "Oh, the prices for everything is inflated" you might say. But check again: The base price of an iron sword in skyrim? 25 septims. In Oblivion? Assuming in-game lore about Skyrim having some of the best smiths in the world, we should be comparing to the Fine Iron Longsword in Oblivion, which has a base value of 40 septims. Steel? 45 to 90 in Skyrim's favor. Elven? 235 to 420, Skyrim's favor. EBONY? 720 to 1700, and again in Skyrim's favor. Weapons, armor, all less costly than in Oblivion. Food? The same deal; farmed food and ingredients are more expensive in the cold tundras of skyrim where farming is done for subsistence and not for profit like they do in Cyrodiil. The objective value of the strongest (legal) soul gems used in enchanting hasn't changed in 200 years, between two different countries.... but almost all non-magical goods prices have varied between them. And when you look at other magic items, Scrolls are eons cheaper in oblivion and much more common. Staves? 1322 base price for the strongest destruction staves in Oblivion (80 magnitude any element), 2750 in skyrim for the strongest fire staff (60 magnitude), 2931 for the strongest ice staff (60 magnitude + slow), and they dont even have a comparable lightning staff in skyrim.
The fact of the matter is that Skyrim does a very bad job representing the facts of its setting and so the player doesn't intuit them accurately, leading to a gap between player expectations and what happens in game, and the cherry picked example of Markarth's Jail does have a countermeasure for magic: the dual gates. If a mage tried to attack the guards from within, the real protocol wouldnt be to open the gates and charge the working slaves, it'd be to lock shit down and let the prisoners starve to death. That bit of logic which the game engine doesn't allow for is the answer to the magic prisoners you can expect with the population of forsworn bretons in Markarth. They don't CARE if you burn all the other slaves to death, they'll just catch some new slaves. And they know that any mage who TRIES is in theres with a bunch of bretons, who naturally resist magic, know magic of their own, and will happily drive a pickaxe through the mage who is trying to murder them's temple. As for a counter to the Thu'um, the only person in Skyrim with the Thu'um besides you and the greybeards is the head of the Stormcloak rebellion. And what did we see in the opening cutscene when he was being sent to the executioner? He was gagged. The only reason they don't gag you in Skyrim is because implementing a gag you can't remove while also having you be able to escape from prison would be awkward, AND they'd need the game to check whether or not you completed the first quest which lets you shout first, AND they'd have to have the game assume after that point that every hold instantly knows who you are as the dragonborn.
Skyrim's shortcomings are in presentation of information, not the existence of it, and it didn't really 'throw away' the old world building; by the time of Arena they're not using the voice to protect themsevles anymore, and thats 3E 389. Dragons were last seen in skyrim by that point in 1E 2809, and were driven out of Skyrim well before 1E 0. The Dragonguard's Dragonlore was studying knowledge from THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO for them; by the time of Skyrim we're doing archaeology on the people who did archaeology to understand what happened with the Nords who lived under the dragons, the ones who had common mastery of the Thu'um.
imagine how easy it would be to get away with murder too.
Stab someone
sheathe to dispel
"coulda been anyone"
Well, if this spell was fleshed out that much each would probably work like a finger print. There'd probably also be a ton of variety in spells, possibly side quests where you track down superior versions of the spell in old ruins or through certain factions. The black brotherhood? A version of spell that saps life away. The high elves? A super light weight version of the spell. Possibly you'd get an entire skill tree for each spell introduced into the game just because each as their own unique traits that can be expanded upon.
It's a eternal medieval world... Getting away with murder is kinda easy (and is exemplified in the "blood on ice" quest.)
@@DemonKing19951 Kind of like forensic science today is able to identify the shape of weapons used in a crime, and have it where the bound weapon's appearance is different for everyone. In court or even on the spot with guards, you could have suspects summon their bound weapon.
Then comes along an antagonist who has multiple bound weapons, or can alter the shape of their bound weapons.
Who Knows that kinda what I was thinking, it’s like how ballistics lets you trace what gun a bullet was shot from because of the rifling
Or you could just bribe the guard, or crouch in a bush till everyone forgets about you.
you're kind of right. although, I think if you read the lore, conjuration magic is incredibly dangerous that conjured weapons can actually fight back against you. But still, the least they can do is make the conjured weapons to deal a certain % of damage back to the player with every hit.
however, I think because of this shallowness, it makes it a perfect game for modding. hence why the game survived so long.
On the subject of transmutation,
I'm currently doing world building for a dark fantasy setting with several magic subsystems. Transmutation will be present in this world, with a lead-to-gold transmutation spell.
However, in this setting, silver is more precious than gold due to it's practical use in monster hunting, and the spell for transmutation is closely guarded by an independent banker's guild, which is governed by a council of mages from each region. Additionally, while transmutation to silver is possible, it results in an unstable product that decays to a lesser metal (in this setting, silver also has a huge affinity for magic, and that affinity is something that cannot be artificially created or altered to this extent).
So even if individual mages somehow learn transmutation magic outside of the guild, the amounts of gold they can realistically transmute is pretty insignificant, as the Banker's Guild relies on basically a small army of mages who each play a small role in a larger spell to transmute large quantities of metal and thus is more efficient, compared to a single mage or group of mages spending immense amounts of energy and days of preparation to transmute basically $50 worth of gold.
Skyrim: We're throwing you in prison, and taking your weapons away.
Me: Laughs in Master Conjuration.
Blacksmiths still make horseshoes, armor, farm tools, shields, nails, hammers, saws, etc.
and the books may be expensive or magic may be hard to learn
@@evanbates3062 That's not the case with Skyrim, though.
Lucitaur a 100 magic 15 conjuration human does not have enough magic to cast bound sword.
Instead of repairing and maintaining a blade you have to study and meditate and improve your Magicka and wear enchanted items.
Or. Improve your conjuration by making packs with malevolent trickster demons from another realm whose only goal is to enslave mangle and torture mortals for their personal gains and amusement, or by damning your foes fought in combat to an afterlife of eternal anguish where their soul is slowly sucked away and turned turned into Magical energy spent to sustain a malevolent trickster demon, leaving them in a shallow husk completely lacking in sentience and desperately trying to acquire souls.
You know. Maybe the reason only thalmor and necromancer use bound swords is because. It’s unethical?
@@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar Still doesn't change my point that it's neither expensive or hard in Skyrim, no matter how hard you try to make it sound.
It's a NOVICE ability and books are very present and cheap in Skyrim, meaning pretty much everyone who needs a sword will find more value in learning the spell than depending on a smith.
@@Lucitaur It's neither expensive or hard for YOU, the player with an infinite number of lives and chances. For the characters on the other hand, well, they don't to get to clear a cave of bandits to sell off all of their gear and loot since well, they'd more likely than not die. There's even a group of bandits that hunt mammoths to survive and you can see a group of them attempt to hunt some that belong to a giant only to get routed/destroyed in seconds. From a lore perspective it's not as simple as collect a few hundred septims and go by a spell tome and open it up, done. Lore wise they actually have to learnt o understand what they're actually doing, which for the most part, they don't even when they can do it. There's also the cultural influences on the use of magicka(Some races shy away from it(Nords and Orcs) while others basically made it illegal(Yakudans)). Considering how cheap a lot of items are, rooms, clothes and food in particular, I'd guess that most Npcs aren't exactly walking around with 200-500 septims to burn on a spell tome they may not have the education to understand or even the time to delve into. Not to mention conjuration is actually pretty dangerous lore wise
All Skyrim needs for that is to equip you with something you cannot remove that severely drains your magicka every second. Item gets added and forcefully equipped when you're imprisoned, removed if you sleep off the sentence or interact with the chest holding your stuff.
Could even add an option if you escape jail and don't interact with the prisoner belongings chest to ask a guard to remove them, it will get you immediately sent back to jail and without any lockpicks since they'll be more thorough with an obvious prison escapee.
I've only just seen this video now, and I've never played death stranding, but I noticed in one clip that the main character of that was skiing on some snow. Wouldn't the snow also have time altering properties since it is part of the precipitation that exists in that world? If that's the case, wouldn't it be a highly concentrated form of that, and thus wear down anything that touched it quickly? That is an oversight on the same level as magic in prison in Skyrim.
They had bracers in a previous game that prevented you from using magic.
Which reinforces his point. Bathesds didn't incorporate it into the new game, maybe due to laziness or plot contrivance but either way it shatters the immersion....moreso if the damn thing exists and they just left it out.
He also mentioned potions that inhibit magic, and they failed to include _that_ as well, do I'm going to say they chose a plot contrivance over world building or as Closer Look outs it "internal realism"
@@petercarioscia9189 nords don't like magic so why would they use magic to restrain mages? the most magic a hold had was the weapon of said hold (axe of whiterun) hell the axe of the stormcloak leader wasn't even magic!
@@justinsmith9006 While the nords don't like magic, that doesn't change the fact that it's stupid that they are not doing whatever they can to restrain magic (or at least gain an advantage over magic users).
@@akedus44 well most town guards can handle your character till high levels, so maybe they are training past most human limits? that would explain how most guards can take said magic to the face, and hell maybe the only reason your magic gets so potent is because your dragonborne?
@@justinsmith9006 That still doesn't change anything. Just because they train to be past normal limits doesn't change the objective disadvantage of not accounting for magic.
15:52 "It's better to go deeper than wider"
Me: THAT'S THE TITLE OF MY- *gets shot five times*
Damnit you beat me to it
I think another consequence of bound weapons would be that if people do use real steel there would probably be more of an emphasis on enchanted items because only they could be more useful then a weapon you can just produce. Leaders would outfit their guards with enchanted gear but also make sure they could use bound weapons so they are never truly disarmed. you would also need a way to prevent someone from just producing weapons to assassinate people too.
Gangs would also be horrifying because they can arm and disarm themselves quickly and don't have to hide weapons. Imagine every gang member being as well armed as your average soldier.
typically when i make a world i make a lot of history for said world as well. sort of like a timeline of major events i guess, it doesnt have to go into too much detail. It just also has to include when exactly certain types of magic are discovered because then that allows me to advance this type of magic and have it influence the world and the world influence it together simultaneously as i move down the timeline. for instance, potions. lets say potions were discovered 2000 years ago. what was the first potion ever discovered? how was it made? how many possible uses could this potion have? how did the tools/magic used for making potions advance over time? how many potions have been discovered since then? how have potions influenced the development of various other industries such as medicine and warfare? how common is potion making in the modern day and why? are the materials used in modern potions able to be farmed or otherwise mass produced? what is the science behind potion making and how has the science behind it influenced other types of magic? etc etc etc theres a billion questions to ask and the more you answer the more complete your world will be but you dont have to shove it all into the audiences face because that would frankly be really boring. i guarantee that 99% of whatever audience you are making your world for is not going to care that 1500 years ago some dude discovered that grating lavender leaves makes a slightly better potion than mincing them. unless that dude plays a somewhat important role in the narrative so dont go into that much detail because then youll be stuck for months just developing the setting for the world without actually making a story
Skyrim's prisons make even less sense when one considers the magical security present in Morrowind.
In Morrowind, the dark elves made their slaves wear special arm bands that sapped all their magic power, so they couldn't use it to escape or fight back.
The wizards in morrowind are obviously better at magic as the best wizards are in the college of winter hold and that says the people of skyrim don't have the needed experience to place this idea into action. The only place that would do this is the college itself but a bug prohibits this from happening by telling the guards just to kill you or take you to winter holds jail instead of the college's jail
@@Vera55557 There's a College Jail?
Skyrim is full of nords.
Nords < magic
@@Vera55557 still there are poisons that eliminate Magicka regeneration
"Internal realism" is often called internal consistency, which means the world "makes sense" and follows it's own rules.
I've also heard verisimilitude used most often, most often in the context of novels or film.
@@michaelmooney4024 They are very closely related, but seperate concepts. Internal consistency lends itself a LOT to verisimilitude.
TVTropes calls it "Minovsky Effect", I believe.
internal realism is not the same as internal consistency
@@mrixxxery What's difference then?
I remember watching this already a year ago but I just sat here and watched it again. That’s how you know it’s good writing 💯
The best word to describe "internal realism" would be "verisimilitude."
This makes me think of Morrowind’s mushroom towers, and how their architecture is affected by levitation.
Toby H People just forget that Morrowind is just a better game when you download graphic mods.
Connor grant You say ‘people’...
Slaves in Morrowind had bracelets on that drains their Magica.
hugo that’s exactly what is was reminded of and what they should’ve done when you get thrown in any jail. But they didn’t do that because they didn’t think about it.
Toby H
Your point?
I think Bioshock does a really good job at showing the effect the “magic” (or, in this case, DNA shifting drugs) in the game has on the world around the character. The Plasmids were originally supposed to be utilized for mundane tasks like lighting a cigarette with a snap of a finger or starting something up through electrical force, but as Rapture became more dangerous and the denizens became more insane, the unchecked Plasmids became weapons. It also shows how the constant use of the Plasmids both deranged and disfigured the citizens of Rapture, leaving your enemies with hideous, mutated faces and scabbed up bodies screaming absolute gibberish as they try to set you on fire or bash your head in with a lead pipe.
I actually made this exact comparison. If the ADAM slugs were never discovered at the bottom of the ocean where Rapture was built, the game would just be about a city underwater with no problems at all. The magic system of Bioshock is the reason Bioshock exists, while the magic system in Skyrim has no reason to exist, excluding the shouts
this was a really well written comment and observation.
@@joeyjointjebaiter1275 Well technically Rapture would have fallen apart anyway due to the flaws in its objectivist philosophy. The discovery of ADAM was just the catalyst that doomed it much faster.
@@isaachamilton7976 well, it still impacted the story more than magic in skyrim does
Bioshock as a whole was an awesome game. From the legendary wrench to the first time I seen a Big Daddy and thought he was just some big dumb ass lug I could wreck. The subsequent sound of hearing him after that encounter would send chills down my spine making sure not to aggro his ass again.
Not until later on in the game when I could kill him, I felt bad for the big guy and the little girl he left behind. Especially since they have such a tight connection. Makes me want to play Bioshock again!
I always suggest to people look at Outward's magic system. I love that game so much and the magic system is great and balanced. You have to sacrifice health and stamina in order to unlock mana (permanent exchange) and ALL the spells in the game are useless on their own, because you MUST combine 2 spells in order to create one that has a nice effect. Example: spell Reveal Soul + Conjure (must be used on a dead body that has a soul attached to it) = Summon ghost
I’m sure the differences between a 5th installment action rpg and a standalone story driven game is part of the reason why
On the topic of being able to use magic while imprisoned, there's already an IN UNIVERSE item that could be able to stop you from using magic.
slave bracers were extremely common and near worthless in morrowind, there's no reason they couldn't have slapped em on you, and for dragon shouts they could have bound your mouth shut like they did Ulfric Stormcloak.
In fact, in the lands of Skyrim where there is such a widespread distrust of magic and mages, they would have even MORE reason to slap some kind of magic suppresion on prisoners than other regions.
elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Slave%27s_Left_Bracer
Considering that the slave bracers use a type of magic themselves, I think it'd be natural to assume the Skyrim justice departments would shy away from them as well.
just use a mod lmfao
@@physical_insanity
Hehehe. Idiots.
@M33ble That's probably the most they're willing to tolerate, then.
In tabletop role-playing games many of these issues have been discussed under the concept of "verisimilitude".
Oh good call. Very true.
@@Gray963 what's that?
IMO it's not quite the same. Internal consistency dictates that the story adheres to it's own logic, and that might support versimilitude, which is about how easily you can suspend your disbelief and immerse yourself into the world's logic.
@@Spiderboydk Sounds like one helps to enable the other...
@@trenauldo Exactly. :-)
I see your point, and you are right but also, it's super fun to clear out iron from a blacksmith, transmute, make necklaces, and sell back to them for infinite profit
the thing that get's me is that in older elder scrolls games, the magic was even more diverse and much more deeply explored. prisoners had anti-magic collars you could not remove without the guards attacking you. people used magic in their daily lives and for specific exploits. at least in morrowind.
"There are no spoilers in this video"
"Wait Skyrim has a magic system?"
What, you went with anything OTHER than stealth archer?
Screw destruction weak af conjuration alteration and restoration is the only good one illusion is good too
@@ProGaming-db6ln
Illusion is the shit. Why should you have to fight your enemies when you can just make them fight each other?
@@Error0101 it doesn't work on bosses and dragons but eh could work
@@Error0101 conjuration pretty good its also ez to level up just cast soul trap on a corpse over and over again untill you get 100
"Bigger isn't better"
Ubisoft: I'm gonna pretend i didn't hear that
FIVE TIMES THE DETAIL!
At least Ubisoft doesn't put a fucking transmute gold spell in their games.
what are you trying to say?
CDPR: I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that
*cough AC ODYSSEY cough*
It's easy to overlook the subtlety of the moss landscape because of the complete lack of subtlety with which we are smacked over the head by babies from the word "go."
i love how in the anniversary edition you can get the best spell in the game immediately…and then make it free to cast with not even that much effort put into enchanting, i an of course referring to the expert level elemental bolt spell thing i forget the name of that you find in a chest in some cave west of dawnstar along with like a bajillion other spells
I must nitpick that moss actually has potentially extremely long lifespan and grows very slowly and this is the reason its so abundant
But there's one big flaw, life lives off of water, and water rapidly ages things, so, living things would be constantly aging so rapidly, that they're born, then die in a few hours, it would kill EVERYTHING, so i call bullshit.
@@callumkristofer7793 It's not all water all the time. I haven't played the game and that much is obvious just from this video.
But still, the plants might age fast, but where do they get the resources to grow that quick?
@@nathanlevesque7812 Water causes timefall, water is in your body, water is a requirement for most forms of organic life, if not, then liquid methane is.
@@nathanlevesque7812 It makes no sense, that earth life, could just instantly switch over to living off methane rather than water, if it still lived off water, then that water would be in their system, causing timefall in their internal organs and such, it would near instantly kill you.
In morrowind prisoners have to wear a gauntlet that drains magicka.
That was because Bethesda actually cared about the art of games back then and weren’t just in it for the cash grab
Why should betheada work harder if the game will sell 10+ million copies regardless of its quality?
My friends told me that the areas for high level wizards in their guilds were only accessible via the fly spell. This means that not only economy, but arquitecture is changed as well.
@@KrolKaz Because they could sell much more.
@@icarue993 yes. Even a few spots in the main quest you need some kind of levitation spell to progress
The place you find the transmute ore spell there’s a letter talking about using it to get rich I’m pretty sure but that’s literally it
In Morrowind prisoners had enchanted shackles on, and they covered Stormcloak's mouth at the beginning, they must have just forgotten.
Skyrim: "Wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle"
death stranding: "wide as a puddle and deep as one too"
@@jasonhymes3382 its 3 inches deeper as skyrim. still shallow tho.
Jason Hymes really? Is it not a good game?
@@F1fan4eva no, its not. :D
powerthunfisch des donners you can dislike it, but to say it’s not deep is just wrong
"This video is brought to you by Raid: Shadow Legends!"
I never moved my cursor to the slider so fast in my life.
You caught the joke though?
@@Quasiguambo But of course.
Get the "Sponsor Block" addon! I really wouldn't want to use CZcams without it anymore. It lets people upload a sponsor segment in a video into a database, which then allows other people using the addon to automatically skip it.
@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus and then to counter that "magic" the world would adapt and allow the uploaded to add a random dynamic sponsor segment that never plays in the same place. since the world has yet to adapt it kind of breaks the immersion of the world we live in. ;D
@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus or just skip forward.
What’s funny on the prison part is Morrowind has prisoners/slaves and they all wear bracers (you can loot if you kill them) that have a constant magicka drain, there’s also a spell named silence which stops you from being able to cast spells. Maybe itd be hard to code it so you can only take the bracers off when you have a key or leave the prison though.
You know, I think I figured out something here when you talked about Summoned Sword. You went with a magic build, didn’t you?
I went with a warrior build and I remember learning that spell and not being able to use it because the cost was 200ish magica until I sank some perks into summoning.
This is another thing, it takes not only a lot of training for the average nord to learn bound sword, but a lot of training to even have the magika to USE it, as nords are notoriously bad at magic. And hate it besides.
"Hmph, wizards... now that's power.. bet they got that "secret magic".. turn wood into gold.. yeah, wish I could turn wood into gold..."
-random bandit
and he'd get to keep that gold. "that kid could be anyone's..."
-random bandit with transmute spell on a shelf nearby
@@jergensherbit756 they probably cant read tbf
@@Microwave-Child There's that one blind guy who's always "reading" a completely blank blook.
@@jergensherbit756 Actually first transmute book i found was immediately after the first time I heard this line. About 15 ft to his right.
that's why Avatar: The Last Airbender was so good, it basically only had 4 magic spells that were fleshed out to the maximum
"It's not magic, it's bending!"
@@felixhaggblom7562 shut up katara
@@felixhaggblom7562 it's basically magic though...
@@MisterSketch4 I know, I was quoting the show
My favorite part of that series was Iroh telling how lightning bending shared the ferocity of fire bending with the tranquility of water bending. God I miss that show.
10:14 music?
Love to see a different opinion. I think these are different enough that what is valued and not should change. Yes I know things don't fit together but honestly this type of game is sooo complex you could take another 20 years and still have things to polish. I think it's one one of the few that games exempt from less is more because they still provide a lot more quality than most stand alone stories IN MY OPINION. Can't wait to see how much further #6 will take this series. I get so lost I'll just explore one small section for hours. I think balancing access to all the classes is important. Magic is integral to my journey regardless of "class" I would never even touch it if it was made to abide by rules instead of well... Magic(imagination is magic to me if you get what I'm saying). Doing the impossible. The game as a whole is just the ultimate fantasy. I would hate that magic is limited in use just because it would take 10x longer to make it balanced with the story and gameplay. Skyrim isn't driven just by story exclusively. The sandbox is half of not more. You could know nothing about the story or pay attention and still have 100's of hours of fun with antics. Sprinkle just a bit of lore and it makes a universe that you can interact with others even offline. I mean this franchise still provides content that YT can get millions of view in 2023. But it still has more depth to the lore than most story based games. It balances that so well when compared to Tolkien or Martin as it's sooo many people in control coming together, with less time for rationale than them. And Puts it in visual/sound form. The only games I've loved like this is Minecraft and dark souls. Many of the same reasons. But that's my opinion I don't watch much movies or shows so I can't argue too much about the story as it usually takes 2nd seat to gameplay unless I just happen to like it. What y'all think if anyone is still watching this 3 years later? Can't wait to see how #6 could address these things he does have a major point. I guess it's just not my major point🤷 also just want to point out that I love fallout for the exact reason. I would say I spent more time on fallout just because of the imagination aspect. Two completely different stories that reached a new level when introduced to the engine they run on. I don't know any other system that could be translated soo flawlessly. You could probably use it only any genre (starfield doesn't count) not yet at least
There actually is a word for “Internal Realism,” it’s “verisimilitude”
That's the one I was going to offer, yeah.
Aka "I'm sick of all these obnoxious assholes who think they're clever by pointing out that dragons and lightsabers don't actually exist any time we try to have a discussion on realism in Fantasy settings."
I like the term *Internal Realism* a lot more.
I would like to posit the alternative term of Lorehole.
I had heard that word years ago and forgot exactly what it was and then I was playing Outer Worlds and there is an ad for “faux windows- perfect verisimilitude for your frontier home”
Imagine the security nightmare for bodyguards protecting nobles and kings if any random Joe could summon a sword or bow anywhere, anytime ..
Or if an assassin drops a poison in your pocket, you immediately decide to drink for some reason.
@@edgarbm6407 I think the logic behind that one is you're secretly spreading it on someone or injecting them with it, but Bethesda couldn't be bothered to make it more realistic. Their design philosophy ever since Oblivion was finished is to half ass everything and expect the community to fix it for them. They're just trying to make bank at this point.
@@ProtoPerson or they absorb it through their skin
@@prophetofwatersheep8100 Hence the spreading it on people.
@@ProtoPerson sorry didn't see that part
25:55 No. There are several reasons why that's not the case;
1. Technical, You can't create armour with this spell, so blacksmiths would still be just as necessary for the military purpose because they produce armour... unless you want all your soldiers to run around in leather tunics or pyjama-armour.
2. Practical- for daily-use items like tools. Even if there was an equivalent spell "bound tool" it would still be a pain in the ass for every peasant to chug a mana potion every 2 minutes to recast it during harvesting season, the process of which could take like 30 seconds to a minute (cause how many times can you drink a double-shot of some blue stuff, in a day?) which sure, 45 seconds isn't much, but when you have to repeat that process every 2 minutes, when the harvest itself can last like 14 hours a day, for several days? You suddenly have a problem that the harvest is taking almost 10 days, of backbreaking dawn-till-dusk work instead of 'just' a week. Just have a blacksmith make a scythe, it would literally be easier, cheaper-in-the-long-run, and more convenient.
Same with wood axes, scissors, saws, shears, scythes, hammers, hoes, flails (flail is an agricultural tool, used for threshing grains out of husks) pickaxes etc. etc.
3. Logistical. Since the tools were/are in near constant use, for HOURS, then suddenly, in that theoretical scenario, every flippin village needs to have several dedicated mana-potion-brewers to keep up with everyone having to spend most of their mana every 2 minutes to re-create the tools they use, and will use for the next X hours, for the next decades, instead of just having a single blacksmith that can make new/repair old tools...
EXCEPT THAT'S NOT TRUE, cause things like nails that hold the houses and other constructions that people live in/use, or horseshoes still need to be produced, CAUSE YOU CAN'T RE-CAST 'bound nail' EVERY 2 MINUTES, OF EVERY HOUR, INCLUDING NIGHT TIME, or 'bound horseshoe' 4 times every two minutes while riding a horse, so the blacksmith is still there in that village, and is just doing almost nothing and asking prices for nails, horseshoes and other basic stuff, that can't even theoretically be replaced with 'bound X-item" spell, that would've been exorbitant before the shift, cause he still needs to eat, and is looking as everyone else is chugging mana potions every 2 minutes, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.
And while it is much more feasible for an army to carry caravans of mana potions, instead of just carrying weapons- it wouldn't really be that much easier than just carrying the weapons. It would also mean that 'the cost of a battle' would be that much higher- you need to equip a soldier regardless if he fights or not, but the soldier even doing nothing is still an asset, but you only use the mana potions during a fight, so going into battle suddenly doesn't just inquire the cost of potentially recruiting new soldiers and equipping them with new armour and other equipment, in place of the slain ones, but you also need to replenish the stock of mana potions, and while the army is low on mana potions it can't fight properly again.
Logistics just don't compute, armies of the period most closely related to the one shown in Skyrim had problem transporting food for themselves and often needed to plunder the countryside to not starve themselves, but yeah somehow they'll have no problem transporting metric tons of mana potions everywhere they go, just so that average soldier doesn't need to carry a simple sword and a spear, and no, they can't rely on natural mana regeneration- it doesn't regenerate quickly enough, maybe once every 3-4 casts you don't need to chuck the mana potion, but you still need to do that more often than not.
4. Going back to military use, how long do you think a battle lasts? Cause I can tell you it's more than 2 minutes. Most battles took for hours, the shortest battle I know of- Battle of Kircholm 1605, lasted for about 20 minutes and it was considered to be a lightning victory, and even then there were a few hours of initial tactical manoeuvrers and then the 'mop-up' of the retreating swedes. Now lets imagine that the PLC's winged hussars needed to re-cast their 'bound lances' mid charge, or that some of them miscalculated and just ran into the wall of Swedish pikes, without their lance, cause they cast it a bit too early... DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM? And even if all of them calculated it properly, they would still need to chug 10 mana potions over the course of the battle, and re-cast their spells, 10 times... And Kircholm is an extreme example, most battles took much much longer than that; On the other side of that example- Battle of Cannae lasted for 2 DAYS, and it was still a field battle, while a battle of Crecy took a good portion of the day.
Another issue- what happens if the enemy just comes in with actual metal weapons, and doesn't need to 're-cast' them every 2 minutes? What do you think happens during that 30 second period when one side needs to drop everything they do, chug a mana potion, and then re-cast their bound weapon? A slaughter. A slaughter is what would happen. No sane leader would ever gamble an engagement against enemy actually equipped with metal weapons, and therefore nobody except maybe the most greedy of despots would think of skimping on at the very least equipping their soldiers with spears.
Healing magic on the other hand? No more post-battle losses, no more need for medics, no more soldiers dying of untreated wounds or infections, because everyone can just cast healing spells. THAT would be an actual thing armies would likely implement, have every soldier learn how to cast a basic self-heal spell.
Another thing that could actually change a lot, would be the 'light' spell- both the one that sits above your head and the one you can cast at an area, due to how cheap those spells are, soldiers on sentry duty could actually feasibly keep them up for the entire night, and still have enough mana to throw a mage-light from time to time at a weird looking bush while on a patrol.
And as you don't need to heal or cast candlelight constantly, you don't need to chug so many (or really any) mana potions. Maybe the soldiers could get like 1 or 2 flasks just in case they got a really grievous wound, but that would still be easier than having 300 medics follow an army whenever it goes, which means that Both of those spells would also help a lot with reducing logistical strain- no more need to carry so much oil/pitch to make torches, and you can have fewer camp followers (medics) and thus also indirectly decrease the need for food and water.