SMALL CORRECTION - Coteaz is 95pts for allies, 75pts for agents. Sadly looks pretty bad as an ally at that cost, 75pts felt about right for him to be a niche pick.
@@GundamReviver It's still only really consistent for weaker characters like Guard/Eldar. Even a standard marine profile (i.e. techmarine) still has around a 40% chance of surviving a shot. Not terrible, but not exactly standout. Other snipers like Eliminators seem to offer similar damage relative to their cost, and while they can't target lone ops from across the table you won't feel like you're wasting them on targeting secondaries or regular units. At least in a tournament setting you can swap it out if there're no good targets, but then you've wasted a fairly significant number of points for the option.
I started playing warhammer in April and bought a Vindicare Assassin for my Astra Militarum Army because it was a threatening anti-Character unit and also good for doing secondaries/screening deepstrike. I guess its going on the shelf now and i instead add a Leman Russ? Because apparently it is as expensive as a whole Tank.
I think they realized callidus is one of a few lone op choices for most imperium armies and often their only lord of deceit choice, so they kept her available as a pretty viable competitive unit to avoid having to fix the balance issues that could arise from most imperium armies basically losing cost effective access to their only unit that carries one or both of these abilities. By contrast they’re generally aiming for the other agents to be more luxury picks for casual games and primarily be played in the agents army. Its just a different purpose thing, they want the vindicare to be a sick sniper, but dont want him to be in every space marines, sisters, grey knights, custodes, knights, and mechanicus army, while callidus sort of needs to be an option because the imperium armies are generally speaking sort of balanced around her being a lord of deceit/lone op unit they have unofficially as part of their datasheets, and are often low or completely lacking in those types of units natively.
The bit that I hate the most about the deathwatch killteam unit is that if you ally it in to space marines they don't benefit from oath of moment and can't be targeted by stratagems due to them lacking the "adeptus astartes" keyword. It was lame enough that GW's plan was to force us to ally in our unique DW units, but to have them not interact with other marines at all? Devastating
Being able to Ally Grey knights is fantastic. I've been using daemon Allies for ages with my chaos. So my Imperial opponent bringing some Grey knights is really cool thematically. Like it.
Those assassin costs are FUBAR. Callidus was the best and remains the best (and the cheapest), while the Vindicare is hilariously overpriced for non-agents...
They are completely fairly priced. The Eversor is CRACKED. Vindicare can now casually finish a land raider ffs. Callidus is much less used now, and her up and down rule is essentially roll dependent in this update.
Considering GW couldn't keep them in stock for months, it's more likely that they don't want to rock the Imperium meta too hard. Especially when considering she didn't change point costs *or* abilities
@sgtjericho7884 true, but given how shit GW's warehouses are it wouldn't surprise me if all that time spent being unable to restock may just be their incompetence at shifting the stock to where it needs to be
Let's give assassins a little buff. Let's also almost double their points to make them not worth including them. What's next? Increase the price of the units for the rerelease by €10,-?
The codex as a whole is very strange, but as an Imperium collector I am kind of excited to try out all 4 Assassins, some Grey Knights, an allied Knight Castellan, and some other stuff to fill out the list. It's not competitive, but it's fun to look at!
Is the Vindicare points cost a typo? At 80pts the Vindicare was unplayable as he was way too swingy and unpredictable. When they buffed him I was finally looking forward to playing him as he had some utility at last but at 150pts they've immediately made him untenable again! Honestly what's the point?
The vindicare is now 150 for a single d3+3 damage shot. You could just run a warglaive with t10, 12 wounds, 3 d6 damage shots, and good melee at the same price. That's insanely stupid
I could make it worse. You could, if you use allies properly, run inquisitors in GSC as part of Brood Brothers. You wouldn't do it because it's good. You would do it because it's bad. Also, you need a Warhound Titan to do it at 2000 points. You have to start with a Brood Brothers Unit, so you have a unit with the Imperium keyword. I suggest Kasrkin with a Chimera. Now you can add allies if everything else has the Imperium keyword. Warhound Titan. Well, we still don't have a warlord, so we can grab an Inquisitor and their retinue for the warlord.
I’m sorry, I just can’t take this army seriously. As a standalone faction it’s grossly inadequate, and now it seems most units as allies are too expensive.
@@CatroiOz yes, but at the same time you have the eversor, which is cheaper that can sprint to the other side of the board and violently blend the leader and entire squad he was in.
@@CatroiOzI'd consider it a major tactical error if you're throwing your lone operative in the sight line of a static piece that does not want to reposition and shoot. Especially with cover and line of sight blocking terrain being so prominent this edition.
Wait for it, they will drop the points down to something like 125 after enough online complaints. Even with the ability to take out lone operatives, it isn't worth it. Without line of sight, the Vindicaire just can't earn its points back.
I'm sorry that your rules breaking toy isn't as powerful as you wanted it to be and that you have to play 40k like the rest of us. On the plus side is GW made a lot of money after showcasing the toy and many people bought one without waiting for the points.
I think there's a pretty good chance of that honestly. Either this year or next. They seem to be going through the Marine factions and updating them steadily. Despite people complaining about the blood angel's wings, at least the release shows that GW is committed to updating these older factions
mmm personally I never liked the wings. not that I play blood angels. I'm not a heretic 😜. however I think the new ones are way cooler. personal opinion
also yes grey knights need the model love. I kind of wish they just did an upgrade kit or something ages ago so you could use primaris marines bodies and an upgrade kit to make them look right
One thing that's really funny is, the point update actually write SoB in ally is "1 MODEL--115 points"😂😂😂 So yeah, it's even more expensive than a titan if you ally a 10-girl sister squad😂😂
It's impressive how you can kill death watch, dig it up out of the grave (if it can be considered as making it that far!), piss on it, and bury it again.
Yeah but as always, they screw them up _after_ they've sold the models. They really don't care after they've made their money. Outside of some fringe player actually fielding a Agents army, almost no one is going to run an assassin.
Deathwatch Kill Teams can seem flimsy on paper, but I've got a build thats still very viable if you want a surprisingly durable unit that no infantry will ever want to get near: 10 man squad with at least 4 shields and 2 Infernus bolters, led by an Inquisitor with Psychic Shockwave. Plank 'em on an objective, and drop Overwatch the moment any enemy footsloggers hike within range. Unless your dice REALLY hate you, you've got a solid chance of taking a sizable chunk out of all but the toughest enemy infantry with that much Torrent. Inquisitor gives you a decent chance of earning that overwatch CP back. The 4 guys with shields present 8 wounds worth of 4+ invulnerable saves for your opponent to try and chew through. Invincible? No. More damned annoying to take out than they have any right to be? Hell yes. I speak from experience.
Even with the changes to the Vindicare's datasheet it was still the worst assassin and just not good overall, easily outshined by the other assassins and any internal datasheet within an individual army. Now with that points increase it's EXTREMELY bad or just flatout never worth it regardless of playing agents or allies, you would have to be playing against some of the worst players in the game to ever get value out of a Vindicare ESPECIALLY in Pariah Nexus. There is a couple ways to fix it; either A-Give the Rifle 2-3 shots instead of 1, or B-Remove Epic Hero and lower their cost by like 30-40 points.
I love the idea of the imperial agents army. I own most all the models in the codex. Frankly, I just don't see it being viable as a full fledged army though..
@@christopherfreitas6510 But what‘s the definition of viable? It has all the rules to be played and I guess some people will even be successful with it (probably though by adding some Knights as allies). But I don’t think it will ever have that full fledged army feeling to it as it will always lack a core identity and instead will always be a hodgepodge of an army. But it has a lot of units/models and fills most roles other armies have with something (though it needs IK for heavy vehicles).
I still think you're better off just taking either a Sisters or Grey Knights army from their own publication than an allied unit, or just taking more of the parent army that will benefit from their own army rule and synergy. Deathwatch as ever, got utterly shafted. Screw this "codex".
The different point values adds a advantage to not just being used as allies. And it makes sense that its that and not some magic aura that appears if you stack units of one faction.
I am starting myself as Black Templar but after purchase 2 box of Kill Team for Inquisitorial Agent and Eludician Starstrider, I hooked by the lore and fascinated by the fact that normal human being can still work to hunt down the Xenos. To be frank, after going through the release of codex and limitations, i am thinking to put a stop to build up a 2000 pts army after making a purchase of Imperial Rhino and Vindicare Assassin.
I have a full deathwatch army I played with and most of the imperial agents models that i had bought just to paint for fun. Technically I'd only need to buy the codex and some grey knights. Nothing appeals to me about playing this faction. Lore wise sure! On the table top, nope.
@@HereticNinjetik Honestly I play crusade and my local group have already agreed for me to run them as Marines. I'm trying very hard not to be excessively angry about it all. I will say that if you're interested keep you eye on the Unification mod for DoW: Soulstorm, they've said they're going to add Deathwatch in a future patch. Blackspear is, at the time of this comment, still up. Go download that. It's 10 times the detachment OX is because it doesn't remove the ability to attach Marine characters.
the immolator is the sister's flamethrower tank. yeah, it's one model, and probably honestly one of the more reasonable allies to take considering its price
The thing i like most about this update to imperial agents is the fact i can now use a corvus blackstar in grey knights, and with the inclusion of their terminators in the roster i can now also use 65 terminators in my grey knights army in 3000 points games.
Wait, Grey Knight only can lend Terminators not strike/purifier/purgation/interceptor squad? And Deathwatch veterans is need upgrade sprue/buff just to make them useful Corvus Blackstar should be "dedicated transport" for death watch units
The laziest thing is the lack of an Army Rule. I mean here's a perfectly balanced one for them I came up for them literally in my sleep... "Extra Ordinary Authority: Whether from the Rosette, the warrant, the mitre or the more estoric privilidges of the Officio or the Navigator Houses Imperial Agents armies are unusually overburdened with (often competing) supreme authority. In their first Command phase they generate 2 CP rather than the usual 1."
Times I’m glad I don’t actually have any armies the assassins would thrive in, and my choice of Vinny in particular was getting a commemorative sculpt for being a shelf model. That being said, the fact that Vinny would have to remove a model per turn now to justify taking over my Stiltboy? Big oof
Vindicare before points reveal: OMG so unfair that imperial armies get that op broken sniper! Vindicare after points reveal: OMG unplayable so expensive!
The Assassins going up is not surprising given that the Rogue Trader Combat Patrol was about 85 points short of 500 points and not filling that out with one of the cheaper Assassins was odd...
I'm wondering what the point of locking the ally datasheets behind the codex paywall is. I cant see the grey knights datasheet if I ally them, but I can go to their index and see it there. Good work GW
I'm struggling to build lists with these points and previous leaks. In each list I write I always want to take all units with the detachment support and then I ally a Knight, or maybe even a wardog titan, because the detachment doesn't support the rest of the units anyway
I haven't had a chance to read the rules details for Coteaz, but if what I see on wahapedia is right it sounds like Spy Network can trigger off your opponent's Spy Network? Am I missing something, here?
Well, I was excited to use some Imperial Agents stuff in my other lists but now I guess I will not... some of those are a little ridiculous, how the fuck can someone actually go for a 150 points vindicare and think "yeah, thats fine".
Honestly the pts change to voidsmen is just real insulting. There is no reason for it other than force you to buy a new cheap chaff ally to soup in. Very dirty tactic by gw. I won't buy any more imperial agents.
Well this makes my knight army awkward, I was running the rogue trader entourage with voids men as a fun utility ally with the redeploy. What's the next best objective holding ally now?
I find it interesting that while they've updated the Legends points list alongside the Field Manual, they've yet to remove the Deathwatch or Agents of the Imperium Index files to be rolled into an updated version of the Legends: Agents of the Imperium file. The Indices are still the June 2024 versions and Legends: Agents of the Imperium is still last years August 2023 version. I wonder if this is an oversight, or if they meant to keep the Indexes active for people who want to use the ally points costs from the Field Manual without actually being forced to buy the new codex for the rules. It'd be a nice gesture on their part if they are keeping the indexes, but this also would mean that there are potentially two versions of several units now.
@@hickorybane9323 Now I just have to figure out, if I attach a Phobos Captain or Lieutenant ("Painted Black" as GW suggests) to a Spectrus Kill team can the squad still ride the Blackstar now that its transport capacity is keworded to Deathwatch Infantry instead of Adeptus Astartes Infantry. I know that overall, Units have all the Keywords of any of their models, but Transport Boarding is typically per model. This is why the Inquisitor needed their Power of the Rosette rule.
Well... frick I am not sure I am allying my assassins in any more. Except the Callidus. Nearly doubling the points to ally in the Vindicare? that is stupid and insane.
Shoutout to Art of War for voicing the fact that the Vindicare isn’t that good, especially with the points hike. He’s basically the 4th best assassin now. “But it can ignore lone op and that’s so scary!” If you leave your lone op within line of sight of this model that can barely move and also doesn’t want to move, that’s on you. Also Precision literally exists.
Yeah but those people always forget the most important part. This isn't just datsheet vs datasheet. You talk to your opponents. Psychological warfare and strategies. Left a vindicare in a ruins once not even touch it for 3 turns. They forgot it existed. Used it to kill some eldar leader. Had games where people were afraid of its existence and played too hard only to play into other units hands easily. I say the vindicare is still worth it and is a proper tool of psychological warfare.
1, what does precision have to do with lone op? 2, auspex literally said he wasn't that good as an ally because she is so expensive I'd why this needed to be brought up? 3, if I am using a lone op, it's so I don't have to worry where I put it as long as it's far enough away. Yes if this model is on the board I can just hid my lone ups like I do my other units, but that means I now cant use my lone op like I usually would. There is utility in being able to keep someone from just standing around in the open while completely Untouchable. Not great utility for a 150pt cost, but acting like saying "just don't use your lone ops as lone ops" makes this guy's ability useless is a bit disingenuous.
@@goldenruhl246 80 points to do nothing for 3 turns and then kill a single eldar model. And occasionally scare people who don’t know any better. And now it’s 110 (or 150). Like… you do realize that that’s not good, right? If you know what you’re doing you can maneuver your opponent into playing how you want with much more effective units
@@aj.hardwick 1. The ability to ignore lone op isn’t that crazy when we have precision which is another rule that is specifically designed to target down and kill characters. Yes they operate differently but conceptually they are the same. My point is that a single sniper ignoring lone op isn’t some insane game breaking mechanic like some of the top comments on Auspex’ codex preview video seemed to think. 2. More people watch Auspex than Art of War so I’m reiterating what they said here to reinforce the points Auspex made. I don’t know why you have a problem with that lol 3. The Culexus has a 3” deep strike ability. It is also 50 points cheaper. The Eversor literally exists and is 30 points cheaper. *A unit being a threat to your opponent’s game plan and forcing them to adapt is normal*. The Vindicare is not special, and its rule is not good. It’s not useless, I never said it was. If you don’t get that then I don’t know what to tell you.
Honestly all the Assassins bar the Culexus should be 120 for Allies so it's an actual decision - do you want the best shot in the game, a superb objective grabber who can also shank a few key heavy infantry, or do you just want to blend things? I'm just happy to see the agents be an army... but they still need more stuff. The fluff is so full of weird and wonderful things it's sad that they actually dropped Jakero and Daemonhosts. Heck, there are units that already have models which should be here - Tempestus Scions (Inquisition Stormtroopers) for one, Vanus and Venenum assassins, Astropaths... I hope for 11th ed they will be bolder than this.
Looks like we'll have to ally to astra militarum for that - unless we get an update via White Dwarf or *sigh* next edition. Still can get all the inquisitorial themed units into any size of army for it (except now we get 5 scion units instead of 4).
I really do wonder what this faction will look like in 1-2 years time. Will it be just as disappointing? Will it be dead? Will it sneak into a meta somewhere? Who knows?
SMALL CORRECTION - Coteaz is 95pts for allies, 75pts for agents. Sadly looks pretty bad as an ally at that cost, 75pts felt about right for him to be a niche pick.
Draxus was 85 not 75. It is just a 10 point decrease for agents and 10 points increase for non agents.
- And so their watch has ended -
RIP Deathwatch
Coteaz is 75pts for the agents, but 95pts for allies. Presumably Imperium armies have to pay more to cover the cost of bird seed.
Tax break for friends extra for shmucks
Vindicare at 150 for allies and Callidus having NO INCREASE for allies???? goddamn :
@FiannaBat pretty priveledge. Lol.
Well, guess I am using Callidus more than Vindicare
Caladus got worse with the aura update. The vindicare can quite easaly oneshot units more exspensive then him.
@@vidarthorsby2052more expensive than 150 points on the dense LoS-blocking terrain of Tourny-standard boards? Yeah no.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 he can ride in a chimera though...
RIP voidsmen. Never taking them as long as they’re more expensive than scouts
I'll be using them for my fluffy armies! My boarding actions games MEAN boarding actions!
It's almost like you were never meant to in the first place.
Planned obsoletion hard at work.
The dude that shoots good now costs as much as a god-damned dreadnought...
Dude that shoots good also kills characters better than a dread can
Costs as much as a knight armiger
@@GundamReviver It's still only really consistent for weaker characters like Guard/Eldar. Even a standard marine profile (i.e. techmarine) still has around a 40% chance of surviving a shot. Not terrible, but not exactly standout. Other snipers like Eliminators seem to offer similar damage relative to their cost, and while they can't target lone ops from across the table you won't feel like you're wasting them on targeting secondaries or regular units.
At least in a tournament setting you can swap it out if there're no good targets, but then you've wasted a fairly significant number of points for the option.
I started playing warhammer in April and bought a Vindicare Assassin for my Astra Militarum Army because it was a threatening anti-Character unit and also good for doing secondaries/screening deepstrike. I guess its going on the shelf now and i instead add a Leman Russ? Because apparently it is as expensive as a whole Tank.
Depending on your target, it will do as much as a tank so...
I swear they got the Callidus and Vindicare mixed up
not really vindicare is a hard counter to every other agent
I think they realized callidus is one of a few lone op choices for most imperium armies and often their only lord of deceit choice, so they kept her available as a pretty viable competitive unit to avoid having to fix the balance issues that could arise from most imperium armies basically losing cost effective access to their only unit that carries one or both of these abilities.
By contrast they’re generally aiming for the other agents to be more luxury picks for casual games and primarily be played in the agents army. Its just a different purpose thing, they want the vindicare to be a sick sniper, but dont want him to be in every space marines, sisters, grey knights, custodes, knights, and mechanicus army, while callidus sort of needs to be an option because the imperium armies are generally speaking sort of balanced around her being a lord of deceit/lone op unit they have unofficially as part of their datasheets, and are often low or completely lacking in those types of units natively.
The bit that I hate the most about the deathwatch killteam unit is that if you ally it in to space marines they don't benefit from oath of moment and can't be targeted by stratagems due to them lacking the "adeptus astartes" keyword. It was lame enough that GW's plan was to force us to ally in our unique DW units, but to have them not interact with other marines at all? Devastating
Same for me, as a deathwatch player wtf have they done. Now with my "Just another" Astartes non descript chapter
Don't forget you are also limited in the amount of units you can take.
Being able to Ally Grey knights is fantastic. I've been using daemon Allies for ages with my chaos. So my Imperial opponent bringing some Grey knights is really cool thematically. Like it.
I feel like this codex is just imperial daemons for the reasons you mentioned.
Those assassin costs are FUBAR. Callidus was the best and remains the best (and the cheapest), while the Vindicare is hilariously overpriced for non-agents...
Bro. I literally just searched my town for a Vindicare and spent $35 on him monday. I didnt pop the blister and wont.. wtf.
@@steveolie985 He'll probably go down on cost next time GW updates the pts but...yeah.
They are completely fairly priced. The Eversor is CRACKED. Vindicare can now casually finish a land raider ffs. Callidus is much less used now, and her up and down rule is essentially roll dependent in this update.
@@MinscS2 wait, it's fucked up beyond all repair (fubar) but you can fix it with a points adjustment? So... it's repairable?
@@steveolie985 that’s on you buying models for rules
"Tell me you have a surplus of callidus models without telling me you have a surplus of calidus models
Considering GW couldn't keep them in stock for months, it's more likely that they don't want to rock the Imperium meta too hard. Especially when considering she didn't change point costs *or* abilities
@sgtjericho7884 true, but given how shit GW's warehouses are it wouldn't surprise me if all that time spent being unable to restock may just be their incompetence at shifting the stock to where it needs to be
Why in God's name did they increase the cost of Voidsmen by 20?!
Let's give assassins a little buff. Let's also almost double their points to make them not worth including them. What's next? Increase the price of the units for the rerelease by €10,-?
Don't give GW any ideas......
How dare you sir giving GW more cause for price increases 😂
The codex as a whole is very strange, but as an Imperium collector I am kind of excited to try out all 4 Assassins, some Grey Knights, an allied Knight Castellan, and some other stuff to fill out the list. It's not competitive, but it's fun to look at!
Is the Vindicare points cost a typo? At 80pts the Vindicare was unplayable as he was way too swingy and unpredictable. When they buffed him I was finally looking forward to playing him as he had some utility at last but at 150pts they've immediately made him untenable again! Honestly what's the point?
I feel like they mixed up the Vindicare and the Callidus points.
The vindicare is now 150 for a single d3+3 damage shot. You could just run a warglaive with t10, 12 wounds, 3 d6 damage shots, and good melee at the same price. That's insanely stupid
Before I watch, my instant thought is I'd wanna see which 5 units have the biggest discrepancies between their codex/ally points.
I never thought there would be a faction worse than GSC... GW, you've outdone yourselves again.
I could make it worse.
You could, if you use allies properly, run inquisitors in GSC as part of Brood Brothers.
You wouldn't do it because it's good. You would do it because it's bad. Also, you need a Warhound Titan to do it at 2000 points.
You have to start with a Brood Brothers Unit, so you have a unit with the Imperium keyword. I suggest Kasrkin with a Chimera.
Now you can add allies if everything else has the Imperium keyword. Warhound Titan. Well, we still don't have a warlord, so we can grab an Inquisitor and their retinue for the warlord.
I’m sorry, I just can’t take this army seriously. As a standalone faction it’s grossly inadequate, and now it seems most units as allies are too expensive.
Goodness, what did they do to my poor Vindicare, he nearly doubled in price.
As he should. He is a complete rule breaker now
If he gets LOS and spikes, otherwise, a waste of resources
@@CatroiOz yes, but at the same time you have the eversor, which is cheaper that can sprint to the other side of the board and violently blend the leader and entire squad he was in.
@@CatroiOz He costs as much as a Leman Russ lmaoo he aint THAT good unless he catches something out of position
@@CatroiOzI'd consider it a major tactical error if you're throwing your lone operative in the sight line of a static piece that does not want to reposition and shoot. Especially with cover and line of sight blocking terrain being so prominent this edition.
150 for the sniper? What is GW smoking?
Wait for it, they will drop the points down to something like 125 after enough online complaints. Even with the ability to take out lone operatives, it isn't worth it. Without line of sight, the Vindicaire just can't earn its points back.
Its just a codex tax, it'll drop later - but they will want to discourage people only getting one model from this army at release.
I'm sorry that your rules breaking toy isn't as powerful as you wanted it to be and that you have to play 40k like the rest of us. On the plus side is GW made a lot of money after showcasing the toy and many people bought one without waiting for the points.
@@EliteDarkAssassinThe game is full of rule breaking toys. Why are you upset about this particular one?
Last time I was this early, Horus was still loyal.
I never thought I'd see a 40k dad joke.
@@nathantripathy Given how much 40K is basically Daddy Issues: The Wargame, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often!
See this comment on every video 🤣
@@Jarlballin123 it’s a great formula for cheap jokes. :)
Im just waiting for my Grey Knights to get new models 😭
If you have access to bits the custodian guards legs work wonder to make GK primaris size and they fit the theme
I think there's a pretty good chance of that honestly. Either this year or next.
They seem to be going through the Marine factions and updating them steadily. Despite people complaining about the blood angel's wings, at least the release shows that GW is committed to updating these older factions
mmm personally I never liked the wings. not that I play blood angels. I'm not a heretic 😜. however I think the new ones are way cooler. personal opinion
also yes grey knights need the model love. I kind of wish they just did an upgrade kit or something ages ago so you could use primaris marines bodies and an upgrade kit to make them look right
Nah. Grey knights and sisters are both discontinued and can only use imperial agents book. Until dw get an actual codex. Total bs.
One thing that's really funny is, the point update actually write SoB in ally is "1 MODEL--115 points"😂😂😂
So yeah, it's even more expensive than a titan if you ally a 10-girl sister squad😂😂
Is this what it’s like to be early
Now im just praying imperial knights get something officially theirs for secondaries because these allies prices are not worth giving up an armiger.
looks like i need to get a squad of sisters and an immolator...for mine .. don't love that, not a fan of sisters.
It's impressive how you can kill death watch, dig it up out of the grave (if it can be considered as making it that far!), piss on it, and bury it again.
Did they mix up the points for the Vindicare & Callidus assassins? This feels like a mistake to me. Who is running precision these days?
Honestly, the biggest shock is the Vindicare being so overpriced for what he does, then again GW always needs some kind of controversy
Really does feel like they had no fucking clue what they were doing with the codex when it was being done.
Definitely a B team codex.
sad about Inquisitorial Agents (henchmen) they lost so much and barely went down in points :(
Assassin points hikes are insane. They absolutely gutted the agents model line, then made their good units over costed. Another great decision by GW.
Yeah but as always, they screw them up _after_ they've sold the models. They really don't care after they've made their money. Outside of some fringe player actually fielding a Agents army, almost no one is going to run an assassin.
At least points can come down, its worst when they just make the stats bad.
I found an old metal vindicare in my bitz box and thought, nice i can start an allies detachment, then i saw it was 150pts..
Deathwatch Kill Teams can seem flimsy on paper, but I've got a build thats still very viable if you want a surprisingly durable unit that no infantry will ever want to get near:
10 man squad with at least 4 shields and 2 Infernus bolters, led by an Inquisitor with Psychic Shockwave. Plank 'em on an objective, and drop Overwatch the moment any enemy footsloggers hike within range. Unless your dice REALLY hate you, you've got a solid chance of taking a sizable chunk out of all but the toughest enemy infantry with that much Torrent. Inquisitor gives you a decent chance of earning that overwatch CP back. The 4 guys with shields present 8 wounds worth of 4+ invulnerable saves for your opponent to try and chew through.
Invincible? No.
More damned annoying to take out than they have any right to be? Hell yes. I speak from experience.
Even with the changes to the Vindicare's datasheet it was still the worst assassin and just not good overall, easily outshined by the other assassins and any internal datasheet within an individual army. Now with that points increase it's EXTREMELY bad or just flatout never worth it regardless of playing agents or allies, you would have to be playing against some of the worst players in the game to ever get value out of a Vindicare ESPECIALLY in Pariah Nexus. There is a couple ways to fix it; either A-Give the Rifle 2-3 shots instead of 1, or B-Remove Epic Hero and lower their cost by like 30-40 points.
Expect great increases in points for DW vets as allies. 100 pts per 5 is great for sternguard equivalents with a bajillion options.
I love the idea of the imperial agents army. I own most all the models in the codex. Frankly, I just don't see it being viable as a full fledged army though..
It’s probably more something for fluff and crusade players, but as it consists mainly of allies, I don’t think it needs to be hyper competitive.
@@davidgantenbein9362 I don't think any faction NEEDS to be "hyper competitive", but it should at the very least be viable in that setting.
Maybe if you include some Armiger Warglaives...
@@christopherfreitas6510 But what‘s the definition of viable? It has all the rules to be played and I guess some people will even be successful with it (probably though by adding some Knights as allies). But I don’t think it will ever have that full fledged army feeling to it as it will always lack a core identity and instead will always be a hodgepodge of an army. But it has a lot of units/models and fills most roles other armies have with something (though it needs IK for heavy vehicles).
Ah this is super relevant to my GSC brood brothers detachment
I too need a warhound titan to make that 2k list fill out real easy.
I still think you're better off just taking either a Sisters or Grey Knights army from their own publication than an allied unit, or just taking more of the parent army that will benefit from their own army rule and synergy. Deathwatch as ever, got utterly shafted. Screw this "codex".
4:15 in and GW must be on crack xD . Well I guess I can get my DW kick from Space Marine 2 in just a few weeks >.> .
So, Imperial Navy detachments are feasible?
If you want to spend 1000$+ on a ton of kill team kits, maybe?
Yes.
Solar Auxila make good Voidsmen At Arms..
Yep! I'm already working on a pure naval themed list as well as a police themed list.
I wish you could run the navigator with any battle line infantry or something. I really like the model.
😢 my poor Vindicare... It looks like he'll be benched in my Custodes list
RIP my Vindicare!
The different point values adds a advantage to not just being used as allies.
And it makes sense that its that and not some magic aura that appears if you stack units of one faction.
I can forgive GW for making the Blood Angels the Genesis Chapter (Ultramarines in red). Killing the Deathwatch on the other hand is totally BS!
How tf is blood angels forgivable
I am starting myself as Black Templar but after purchase 2 box of Kill Team for Inquisitorial Agent and Eludician Starstrider, I hooked by the lore and fascinated by the fact that normal human being can still work to hunt down the Xenos.
To be frank, after going through the release of codex and limitations, i am thinking to put a stop to build up a 2000 pts army after making a purchase of Imperial Rhino and Vindicare Assassin.
Having separate points for allies and then leaving the Callidus the same points as if you were taking her in an Agents army is the biggest troll
I have a full deathwatch army I played with and most of the imperial agents models that i had bought just to paint for fun.
Technically I'd only need to buy the codex and some grey knights.
Nothing appeals to me about playing this faction. Lore wise sure! On the table top, nope.
"At 100pts for five I don't think they'll be worth it"
Yeah no. Deathwatch are scuppered. It's deeply upsetting.
I figured they'd be a bit cheaper if running an allied force to make up for the lack of other support, but I guess not?...
@@HereticNinjetik Honestly I play crusade and my local group have already agreed for me to run them as Marines. I'm trying very hard not to be excessively angry about it all. I will say that if you're interested keep you eye on the Unification mod for DoW: Soulstorm, they've said they're going to add Deathwatch in a future patch.
Blackspear is, at the time of this comment, still up. Go download that. It's 10 times the detachment OX is because it doesn't remove the ability to attach Marine characters.
Lol... 1 sister model being 115 points. I love GWs errors sometimes. Beats a single neophyte being 55 points a while back
Nice I can now fill out my agents army with 690 points worth of sisters.
the immolator is the sister's flamethrower tank. yeah, it's one model, and probably honestly one of the more reasonable allies to take considering its price
No, he's poking fun at the fact that the Imperial Agents allies section has Sisters Squad listed as 115pts for 1 model.
Kyria Draxus was actually changed from 85 to 95, 10 points is not difficult to come by in a Custodes list so she's still good
I bought Kyria and vindicare on monday. RIP
The thing i like most about this update to imperial agents is the fact i can now use a corvus blackstar in grey knights, and with the inclusion of their terminators in the roster i can now also use 65 terminators in my grey knights army in 3000 points games.
That is kind of funny and interesting that you can ally in additional Grey Knight terminators into a Grey Knights army.
Wait, Grey Knight only can lend Terminators not strike/purifier/purgation/interceptor squad?
And Deathwatch veterans is need upgrade sprue/buff just to make them useful
Corvus Blackstar should be "dedicated transport" for death watch units
I didn't see Deathwatch as an index in the points. Does that mean they are no longer a stand-alone army?
They're part of this codex now.
nice for DW player that bringing Kill Teams doest cost more
I mean they cost the same but suck more than previously with the removal of weapons.
150 points for a neato ability is batshit. The vidicare shouldnt even be close to that
The laziest thing is the lack of an Army Rule. I mean here's a perfectly balanced one for them I came up for them literally in my sleep...
"Extra Ordinary Authority: Whether from the Rosette, the warrant, the mitre or the more estoric privilidges of the Officio or the Navigator Houses Imperial Agents armies are unusually overburdened with (often competing) supreme authority. In their first Command phase they generate 2 CP rather than the usual 1."
Can't believe Grey Knights and Sisters aren't battleline
Times I’m glad I don’t actually have any armies the assassins would thrive in, and my choice of Vinny in particular was getting a commemorative sculpt for being a shelf model. That being said, the fact that Vinny would have to remove a model per turn now to justify taking over my Stiltboy? Big oof
GW balance team ins just super incapable.... They have no clue what they are doing
Vindicare for 150 points...... who hurt you GW?
One of these years, I'll understand Games Workshop.
Vindicare before points reveal: OMG so unfair that imperial armies get that op broken sniper!
Vindicare after points reveal: OMG unplayable so expensive!
BIG CORRECT, Sisters of battle as allies are 115 points for ONE model!
150 for the Vindicare is far too expensive.
The Assassins going up is not surprising given that the Rogue Trader Combat Patrol was about 85 points short of 500 points and not filling that out with one of the cheaper Assassins was odd...
I'm wondering what the point of locking the ally datasheets behind the codex paywall is. I cant see the grey knights datasheet if I ally them, but I can go to their index and see it there. Good work GW
I'm struggling to build lists with these points and previous leaks. In each list I write I always want to take all units with the detachment support and then I ally a Knight, or maybe even a wardog titan, because the detachment doesn't support the rest of the units anyway
This looks great as a standalone army, which is what im excited for. Time to start my new army. Hype ^^
I was really hoping for an Eisenhorn Buff... he is the reason I started playing 40k....
he got buffed alright, they buffed him right out of the game, the spot where he was is super shiny now
Do you think that they will do the same thing for Battle line Deamons, having them cost more as allies and less if running deamons?
110 for eversor …so 2 custodes boy for 90…ahoot better and melee is better …yeah fuck the eversor xD
I haven't had a chance to read the rules details for Coteaz, but if what I see on wahapedia is right it sounds like Spy Network can trigger off your opponent's Spy Network? Am I missing something, here?
Thumbnail should read "Big Imperial Agents Points Update"
Its not a Big 40k Points update at all. Sly.
Well, I was excited to use some Imperial Agents stuff in my other lists but now I guess I will not... some of those are a little ridiculous, how the fuck can someone actually go for a 150 points vindicare and think "yeah, thats fine".
I still don’t understand why they don’t have Inquisitorial Stormtroopers.
Remember, my fellow wargamers, that points can change. Your new Vindicare will not be unusable forever.
I expected the points to drop, I have never been so wrong in all my life. Assassins price increase...that's just wow...
Where do you find this info? Everytime I look for updated stuff I can never find it
I see so it’s not 2k of kill teams it’s 2.3k of kill teams I see I see
Draxus was 85 not 75. It is just a 10 point increase which is not a big deal for custodes.
Honestly the pts change to voidsmen is just real insulting. There is no reason for it other than force you to buy a new cheap chaff ally to soup in.
Very dirty tactic by gw. I won't buy any more imperial agents.
Well this makes my knight army awkward, I was running the rogue trader entourage with voids men as a fun utility ally with the redeploy. What's the next best objective holding ally now?
Beacon was always 30pts, also are these points the final set and stone or isnt there a balance update suppose to happen?
I find it interesting that while they've updated the Legends points list alongside the Field Manual, they've yet to remove the Deathwatch or Agents of the Imperium Index files to be rolled into an updated version of the Legends: Agents of the Imperium file. The Indices are still the June 2024 versions and Legends: Agents of the Imperium is still last years August 2023 version. I wonder if this is an oversight, or if they meant to keep the Indexes active for people who want to use the ally points costs from the Field Manual without actually being forced to buy the new codex for the rules.
It'd be a nice gesture on their part if they are keeping the indexes, but this also would mean that there are potentially two versions of several units now.
It would be a nice gesture...so I'll assume it was an oversight lol (also the multiple versions of units thing)
@@hickorybane9323 Now I just have to figure out, if I attach a Phobos Captain or Lieutenant ("Painted Black" as GW suggests) to a Spectrus Kill team can the squad still ride the Blackstar now that its transport capacity is keworded to Deathwatch Infantry instead of Adeptus Astartes Infantry. I know that overall, Units have all the Keywords of any of their models, but Transport Boarding is typically per model. This is why the Inquisitor needed their Power of the Rosette rule.
Is different points the solution to regular space marines vs divergent chapters?
Well... frick I am not sure I am allying my assassins in any more. Except the Callidus. Nearly doubling the points to ally in the Vindicare? that is stupid and insane.
150 for vindicare is quite high for space marines imo. Not sure if I’ll take him now…
So do I gotta buy a codex to use assassins as allied units now?
The Chimera should have been able to transport all non astartes or seroritas units in the codex.
Still quite angry at how gutted my DW Army is ...
So much for running eversor with my custodes 😅
Shoutout to Art of War for voicing the fact that the Vindicare isn’t that good, especially with the points hike. He’s basically the 4th best assassin now.
“But it can ignore lone op and that’s so scary!”
If you leave your lone op within line of sight of this model that can barely move and also doesn’t want to move, that’s on you. Also Precision literally exists.
Yeah but those people always forget the most important part. This isn't just datsheet vs datasheet. You talk to your opponents. Psychological warfare and strategies. Left a vindicare in a ruins once not even touch it for 3 turns. They forgot it existed. Used it to kill some eldar leader. Had games where people were afraid of its existence and played too hard only to play into other units hands easily. I say the vindicare is still worth it and is a proper tool of psychological warfare.
1, what does precision have to do with lone op?
2, auspex literally said he wasn't that good as an ally because she is so expensive I'd why this needed to be brought up?
3, if I am using a lone op, it's so I don't have to worry where I put it as long as it's far enough away. Yes if this model is on the board I can just hid my lone ups like I do my other units, but that means I now cant use my lone op like I usually would. There is utility in being able to keep someone from just standing around in the open while completely Untouchable. Not great utility for a 150pt cost, but acting like saying "just don't use your lone ops as lone ops" makes this guy's ability useless is a bit disingenuous.
@@goldenruhl246 80 points to do nothing for 3 turns and then kill a single eldar model. And occasionally scare people who don’t know any better. And now it’s 110 (or 150).
Like… you do realize that that’s not good, right? If you know what you’re doing you can maneuver your opponent into playing how you want with much more effective units
@CuriousLumenwood it won me the game
@@aj.hardwick 1. The ability to ignore lone op isn’t that crazy when we have precision which is another rule that is specifically designed to target down and kill characters. Yes they operate differently but conceptually they are the same. My point is that a single sniper ignoring lone op isn’t some insane game breaking mechanic like some of the top comments on Auspex’ codex preview video seemed to think.
2. More people watch Auspex than Art of War so I’m reiterating what they said here to reinforce the points Auspex made. I don’t know why you have a problem with that lol
3. The Culexus has a 3” deep strike ability. It is also 50 points cheaper. The Eversor literally exists and is 30 points cheaper. *A unit being a threat to your opponent’s game plan and forcing them to adapt is normal*. The Vindicare is not special, and its rule is not good. It’s not useless, I never said it was. If you don’t get that then I don’t know what to tell you.
Honestly all the Assassins bar the Culexus should be 120 for Allies so it's an actual decision - do you want the best shot in the game, a superb objective grabber who can also shank a few key heavy infantry, or do you just want to blend things? I'm just happy to see the agents be an army... but they still need more stuff. The fluff is so full of weird and wonderful things it's sad that they actually dropped Jakero and Daemonhosts. Heck, there are units that already have models which should be here - Tempestus Scions (Inquisition Stormtroopers) for one, Vanus and Venenum assassins, Astropaths... I hope for 11th ed they will be bolder than this.
Sure but 100
I honestly can't stop laughing at the current state of the game.
4:00 fuckin phenomenal.
I hate GW so fuckin much.
lmao yep I thought this was going to happen
Draxus might be fine for Custodes still, but she’s way too much for anything else. I’ll miss running her with some scions in a Taurox Prime.
Where are my Inquisitorial Stormtroopers?
Looks like we'll have to ally to astra militarum for that - unless we get an update via White Dwarf or *sigh* next edition.
Still can get all the inquisitorial themed units into any size of army for it (except now we get 5 scion units instead of 4).
I think there hope for that is that you make a Tempestus Scion army and ally in the Agents.
I really do wonder what this faction will look like in 1-2 years time. Will it be just as disappointing? Will it be dead? Will it sneak into a meta somewhere? Who knows?