Diluting thick or solid raw materials for perfumery
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
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Harry Sherwood (Labdanum): harrysherwood68@yahoo.com
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Labdanum is an extraordinary scent! When I first smelled it, I felt like I was being transported to Egypt. So deep, beautiful and quite unique, like you said.
❤️
I love how you give us both "Lecture" and "Lab" sessions. It's a perfect blend of theory and practice.
One trick with regards to very viscous materials (as you demonstrated with labdanum) is to tare the empty bottle ALONG with a clean pipette. Dispense your material (leaving the pipette in the bottle) and add the alcohol - gently aspirate the pipette until the pipette is clear of material - this will ensure that you use up the precious material that you can't remove from the pipette that you wouldn't normally be able to remove. More so for very expensive materials like Orris Butter for example. Cheers Sam!!
Great tip, thank you for sharing!
Yes! Thank you, just made a dilution doing this and you just saved me tons of material. I was able to get to .003-.006 grams of weight with pipette.
😊
I've used Rice baths for Tonka bean oil. Heat the rice in the microwave dry. Put the bottle in the heated rice and wait a little while.
Interesting, never heard of that
Another nice option’s to use a solvent like TEC or IPM that can be safely preheated in a water bath, along with the material you want to dilute. Warming both helps them to be more miscible, plus no risk of heating your perfumers alcohol. Great video Sam!
Thanks! And yeah I think this is a good option, though I haven't tried it. When I've bought ingredients prediluted in those an issue I've had is the final perfume being more sticky on the skin. I should probably try it at some point though.
thank you! im jumping into perfumery and your videos are helping me :)
Glad to hear it :)
Thank you for this. It was incredibly helpful. I got some Vetiver Absolute and it's just this sticky brown mess of resin that is nearly impossible to scoop and a pipette won't even look at it.
Getting it warm made it runnier, but also somehow even stickier. Once I finally used a broken half of a pair of tweezers to scrape it out like a spatula it still took *hours* in 40-B Ethanol to become liquid.
Man that sounds frustrating - glad you you got it in the end!
I've used Harry for many materials and always found them to be high quality and good value
Yeah I agree, Harry has a great range and good prices
Same! Gave me some good advice too.
I bought a small mini fridge that can heat and cool. It can heat the inside up to 140 degrees which works perfectly for these solids to make them easier to flow. Just don't get ANY kind of essential oil on paint. It will take it right off. I once had an air freshner plugin tipped over on a shelf and some of the oil leaked out. It made that paint bubble right off :)
Yeah, I've had the same thing where the essential oil has stripped off woodstain on my coffee table
100th like! excited to watch, new to your channel and perfumery
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Thank you bro for such a great information
Glad it helped
Thanks for the video Sam. I made a bit of a mess when I diluted my Ethyl maltol lol
Haha well there's always next time ;)
Hi Sam, can you please explain how. To dilute elemi resinoid 50% and do I need to dilute javanol for perfumery
Labdanum is one of my favourite scents too but a sod to work with. To me it smells like a delicious liqueur infused with dried fruit, tobacco and leather.
Yeah I think that's a pretty good description
Ahh yeah nice work, Benzyl Benzoate. In regards to Labdanum and Oakmoss enfleurage. I generally let either one soak in a hot bath both in a jar or vessel of course prior to placing in a piping hot bath generally water is added from the kettel, and then once its more loose and runny dilute 50-50 with Benzyl Benzoate. Benzyl Benzoate is good since it further anneuates the fixative properties of both. Both are ideal in a chypre fragrances.
Nice! Never experimented with it myself but I’ve heard good things…
@@sammacer I tell you what works well with musks like galaxolide and tonalide is mastic resin, it just makes Musk stand out whilst enhancing the aroma. Mastic can be used as a top note too because of the terpenes. One of my bases I went Mastic-Juniper-Vetiver-Oakmoss-Ambergris-Musk. Got the wow factor. Juniper is good too since you can use that as a natural fixative.
I would like to try using heat gun or a hair blower
That could work for sure
Thank you so much for your videos, they're helping me a lot!
I have one question at this topic, if the "recipe" says like 0,02g of that labdanum, I should use exactly 0.02g or I'm I supossed to use 0.2g? cuz I diluted it 10%
Yes that would make sense, though the maths always depends on exactly what you aim to achieve
Nice work very help full video I am perfume reviewer and I love to study perfumery your video helping me
Glad it can help
Hi did you have to study Chemistry to be able make these perfumes?
Very usefull thank you for sharing your passion
No problem
Thanks Sam. BTW I’m digging your hair metamorphosis 👍🏻
Haha well, I would love a haircut but unfortunately lockdown is still a thing
@@sammacer lol don't worry mate. I am in the same boat!
@@juelraj3901 haha
When I put the powder in my fragrance that I have created will it eventually dissolve because I have already put it in the oil
That big jar of Labdanum absolute looks so satisfying lol.
Yeah haha
Could you please make a tutorial on how to further process materials that turn into suspension? Got this problem with elemi resinoid and camomille CO2, 10% in ethanol. I guess I could filter them, but is that it? And how do I calculate the concentration after filtration?
If it forms a suspension, the only thing you can do is dilute it further until it’s no longer a suspension.
Hello sam.with due respect the knowledge you are sharing...Could you please make some videos where those who wants to start there small business like mixing ethyle and ready-made oil can get some tips like exactly what fixitives or booster to use for longitivity,and fixing and projection too.also it changes the top note slightly in french note will be appreciated.Thanks in advance
I tried to dilute Coco ABS@10% essential oil and coffee essential oil in perfumers alcohol. Problem is even in the alcohol it still falls to the bottom no matter how many times i shake it... Any recommendations
Unfortunately not - you could try 1%. Otherwise, the materials may not be suitable for perfumery use.
good video, but I have a question that I couldn't find an answer to on the internet, can I use carrier oil such as apricot to dilute the labdanum? I tried to dilute benzoin in apricot oil, but it keeps precipitating to the bottom, so I'm guessing benzoin absolute is not soluble in oil!
No you can't use a carrier oil - they are usually not miscible with perfumer's alcohol and so will separate. I diluted some benzoin last weekend directly into perfumer's alcohol using the oven technique and lots of shaking and it dissolved perfectly.
How can I contact you thanks
Hi all to anybody who reads this. Can anybody help me how to dilute labdanum resin. It needs to be mixed after with essential oils....
Hi, im glad to find your channel,Should i still need to delute labdanum with 10% in DGP. Thank you😊😊
You could just dilute is to 10% with alcohol
Awesome. Thanks for the video. I used microwave and dgp just to be in safer side.
Nice alternative
Get in contact with me , i wanna discuss perfumery hope it is beneficial for both
Could you use dog instead of perfumers alcohol for diluting your materials? I bought a ton of it based off recommendations on the good scents company but most people I’ve talked to says use alc or tec, which I don’t even know what that is.
If you're making regular perfumes you would just use alcohol. The only reason to use something else is the rare case in which something doesn't dissolve in alcohol.
Hey SAM, I just want to ask with respect to Jojoba oil and other base notes like Sandalwood. How do you force to dissolve in ethanol?
Jojoba oil doesn't dissolve in ethanol. You can't use anything with Jojoba oil for alcoholic perfumery. Sandalwood should dissolve just fine in alcohol as long as there's no Jojoba oil in it.
@@sammacer thanks Sammy.
fiest thanks for your detailed info about perfumery, I want to know your opinion about the aspect of labdanum dilution in DPG ( labdanum 50% pellwall ) and labdanum in alchohol solvent in perfume outcome , also the odor character of both.
tnx
I’m not sure it even dissolves in alcohol at 50%?
Oh , I didn't mention about 50% in alcohol , though
I wanted to know the different aspects of dilution in DPG and Alcohol , because I worked with labdanum 50% in dpg , pellwall and its more delicate than diluted in alch
Hey Sam you probably won’t get this seeing as this is quite an old video but you say to make a 10% dilution you take the weight of the material and times it by 9.
How much do you times it to get a 1% dilution?
99 from pure or 9 from the 10%
@@sammacer thank you so much Sam and keep up the amazing work you’re doing for the world!
I tutored chemistry years ago, and now I need a video on this 😆
Where does the 9 come from in the equation? Do you always multiply by 9? I have just been finding (for example) 10% of 100 subtracting that from the total and that is how much alcohol I need
Yeah that method works too. To understand the x9 check out my video on making dilutions and the video on maths for perfumery :)
Hello from France ! Thank you for your videosssss ! if I make scented candle, in which product I should dilute my raw material to make perfume for candle ? Merci beaucoup Sam !!!!
Hi! Unfortunately I haven't got any experience with that so can't really help, sorry.
Please What do you do?
Can i ask what bottle sizes you use to make your predilutions in. Are they 5ml?
The ones I now use 15ml
Why is sunlight bad for perfumes yet you would use heat to mix the perfumes
i see other perfumers uses heated magnatic mixer
For sure you can do that, it can be useful but I don't have one
Do you make any lotion or oils? I myself like these as longer lasting. Was wondering if you know what absolutes will NOT dilute in carrier oils. I'm assuming pretty much all the resins. Still checking out your videos.. 👍
Sorry I don’t make lotions or oils!
@@sammacer OK, thank you.
It's possible to dilute pure solid incense, for making perfume use?
I don’t understand
@@sammacer hello. I mean if is it possible to melt resin incense in perfumers alcohol?
@@alethink5492 I have no idea sorry, I don't have any 'resin incense'. Unless you mean frankincense? You can try that as a tincture but it's better to use pre-distilled as an essential oil or extracted as an absolute
Hey Sam, quick question and my apologies for being a little naive, when you combine small portions of raw materials (i.e a tree sap for instance or citrus peel) with perfumers alcohol, is this process called an extraction?
This is called tincturing, which is a form of extraction, yes.
@@sammacer thank you so much Sam!
May I please ask you also, what steps would you take if you wanted to make a tincture using a finely milled ingredient, cinnamon for example?
@@genkestrel7254 I don't ever tincture so I would be a bad person to ask. I would assume you leave it in perfumer's alcohol for some time and filter it afterwards. Be careful though to do research on the safety of what you do because cinnamon can contain allergens for example.
@@sammacer thank you. Yes, absolutely, I acknowledge how imperative it is to research all ingredients and methodologies before and possibly even during the process of formulating a perfume. Diligence of care is critical- I'll be the first to agree Sam :) 🌟
@@genkestrel7254 Awesome, good luck with your experiments!
microwave a bowl of water then dunk bottle in preserves the material ..did it with resins gets them running
Nice idea!
My supplier offers Calone in a powder form. They recommend a 10% dilution in either DPG, TEC or IPM. I have yet not really understood what these really are or stand for since I've only worked with perfumers alcohol in my dilutions. Can I dissolve this powder like you did in the video?
These are usually to make it a liquid that’s not flammable for shipping since some beginners don’t know how to use powders. It’s fine to do it in alcohol yourself.
@@sammacer perfect thank you! I really appreciate that you reply even to older videos. You videos in general helped me so much already 🙏
Hey, which aroma chemicals can I buy from perfumers apprentice that give the best vanilla accord or essence ? I want to create a gourmand perfume, I want something similar to the vanilla note in Ultra Male or any Jean Paul Gaultier
I haven't ever bought from perfumer's apprentice or smelled those perfumes, but I'm pretty sure that if you get some vanillin and vanilla absolute you can't go wrong
If you're looking for a nice vanilla absolute replacement Perfumers supply house has one made by Paul Kiler that everyone raves about. I'm ordering some soon. Its close enough to absolute, more complex than just vanillin but decently affordable.
@@laurenbray8314 thank you!
@@sammacer then where do you get your materials ?
@@Raafxt Currently I get the majority of mine from Pell Wall
Of course you made this after I’ve already ruined all my materials trying to improv 💀
Very glad I found this channel
Laudanum smells like vanilla-marshmallow to me
Haha well I'm sure it happens to everyone at one point or another. I see what you mean with the labdanum, though have you smelled ethyl vanillin? That's exactly how I would describe it...
@@sammacer haven’t explored synthetics fully yet, but I prefer fresh scents anyways so I usually avoid heavy sweet notes
@@nickkerinklio8239 Yeah in that case, Ethyl vanillin probably isn't the one for you!
There's a way better way to do what you're trying to achieve.... Warm up your product by giving it a bath until it becomes runny. Then pour it out into your beaker or bottle that has a dropper. Then use the perfumers alcohol to Wash out the rest of your products with the ethanol in the remaining bottle. Then just add your alcohol accordingly. Done deal! Otherwise you are wasting a lot of time with using the pipets
For sure that would work as long as you're keeping track of the exact weights of each component transferred
I put in hot water
Hello. How do you do dilution? I bought a perfume from Perfumey World, but dilution is a problem.
Check out this video: EASY MATHS for perfumery predilutions
czcams.com/video/dtKeR1LJDd4/video.html
@@sammacer ❤️🤙🏻😊 thank you💕
@@sammacer I have a question while studying the formula. If we dilute the fragrance with 50% dpg diluted in the Perfumer World Kit to 10% again, can we apply this formula? I was wondering if the amount of Dpg would increase... (ex: 10% dilution / 50% original x 30ml container = 6g)
Sam Is there anyway to dilute some types of absolutes in an oil base? I know that maybe not all absolutes probably will not dissolve into oil no matter how much you try.
Also apologies if this question has already been ask here recently.
Absolutes are alcohol soluble. They aren’t designed to be compatible with an oil base.
That’s a bummer. I want to use natural vanilla. But I’m also trying to make attars which are oil based. But I really like vanilla. I’ve looked around a bit online and I’ve actually managed to find some vanilla that is an oil.
@@shaunpovlsen2430 You may be able to use vanillin
@@sammacer I just don’t really know where to find it besides some that I’ve seen from Mandy Aftel. There’s also a company here in the US called Attar Bazaar and they have a vanilla oil.
Has anyone used labdanum clear absolute? Same applications? Thanks
The one I used in the video is marketed as 'decolourised' but still has some colour.
Yea just got the “clear” and it looks the same as yours in the video.
@@wib6044 It's definitely more clear than the normal though
Ahh ok. Thanks.
Yeah that's what I have from Eden botanicals. I bought it prediluted though so didn't have to mess with it. I love it.
If I understand correctly, you use perfumer's alcohol as a solvent for most (if not all) of your materials..?
If one orders a "Lab-in-a-box" accessories kit from Pell Wall, they include a whole set of other solvents, specifically
Benzyl benzoate, DEP, DOA, DPG, IPM, MMB and TEC. Do you use any of these solvents for any of your materials? How does one know which solvent to use for which material?
Apparently DOA is good for candles, MMB is good for reed diffusers, and Benzyl benzoate is useful "for certain traditional musks"... But what about the others, DRP, DPG, IPM and TEC? Are they basically interchangable with perfumer's alcohol when diluting materials?
One of the reasons I ask is that here in Sweden getting a hold of perfumer's alcohol is a real pain in the arse because of Sweden's very strict laws on high-grade alcohol (even if it's been denatured!) so if I order a "Lab-in-a-box" I'd like to make maximum use of those solvents since I really don't want to waste the small volume (100ml) of perfumer's alcohol that's included in the kit.
You’re correct in that I dilute everything using perfumers alcohol. Most of those other solvents are for either making solid materials pourable or for specific applications like you say. I don’t use them myself. If you’re looking to do regular alcoholic perfumery then I don’t think they would be that useful. I understand your frustration as I think getting perfumers alcohol can be the biggest challenge in some countries.
@@sammacer Thanks for your response. It seems, then, that if I can just get my hands on some Perfumer's Alcohol then most of those other solvents in Pell Wall's accessories kit aren't necessary. So maybe I should just get some supplies separately instead of that whole kit, since I won't be needing a lot of it anyway. Because, I'm assuming that most solid materials can be dissolved in and made pourable with perfumer's alcohol as well..?
@@tamlin420 Yes exactly!
0:37 to 01:03 there's a weird flickering in the color. Especially around the hands, flashing blue. But also a hand popping in and out on top of your shirt.
Thanks for pointing that out, I have no idea what happened. It's kind of funny I guess haha. Kind of annoying to film loads of stuff for the video and get weird glitches though.
@@sammacer Yep. Just curious, but could you recommend a Hot Plate for perfumery, for diluting materials?
@@JayMannStuff I could recommend that it would work in general but couldn't recommend a specific one as I don't have one. Equally in that vein, you might want to consider a hot water bath instead.
You can put the glass open in a little bowl with hot water (only half, without immerse). This will avoid the risk of fire or breaking.
That’s a great suggestion, I often do something similar nowadays
i just double boil the thicker stuff
I used the microwave for 15 seconds.
Thanks for making these films 👍🏻
No problem
Hi
Very Informative !
Also vice versa process ?
We would need your guidance For Dilution of Rock/ Resinoids into Liquid Or Pourable ? Too
Thanx
The same as shown in this video would apply. Either you melt it or dissolve it from solid.
Labdanum is sweet and goaty :P
Labdanum smells tasty and want to chew it
Thanks 🙏
Haha not sure if that's a good idea...
@@sammacer
I ment frankincense 😅
I really feel to chew it once I smell it
Thanks a lot Sam for all videos, really a huge help to start with all this stuff 🤍
Could you please tell, if I have for example Lyral with CAS 31906-04-4 and the bottle parfumer’s apprentice marked this component like Diluted @ 6.72%, should I delute it to 10%? Or Galaxolide 50% from PA, these numbers terrify me 😮
Well if it’s already diluted to 6%?you can’t undilute it to 10%
Check my video on dilutions
I don’t get the numbers side of it one bit I wish I never started to take interest in it I need help
I have 1gram that I want to dilute to 15%
I can’t figure it out
Please help Sam