Is this 100 oz bar a fake? Specific Gravity testing Silver Bars
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- If you would like to support my channel please consider buying my hand poured silver: backyardbullion.com/product-ca...
Thanks also to the channel sponsor The Silver Forum!
thesilverforum.com/ (302)
A 4k Camera & close ups of coins! What more can you want!?
What do you think? Comment below!
Comments welcome below or email me at byb@backyardbullion.com
If you like this kind of content and want to get more involved and support Backyard Bullion please consider supporting me via Patreon.
/ backyardbullion
Follow me on Instagram: @ BackyardBullion
backyardbullion
Thanks for watching and I will see you next time!
silver, gold, bullion, silver bullion, gold bullion, buying silver, delivery, gold delivery, buying gold, gold review, review, stacking, stack, stacking silver, silver stack, coins, silver coin, silver bar, silver investment, investment, gold investment, investing in silver, investing in gold, silver price, gold price, backyard, backyard bullion, stacker, prepper, SHTF, why not to buy silver, buying silver in 2018, silver 2018
For the specific gravity test, use cold water. Ideally 39 F (4C) but any temperature under 50 F is fine. Put an ice cube in the water. Even 60 F is okay but 100 F would be off by 1%. That is a specific gravity of 10.49 would show to be about 10.6
huge congrats on 7k subs my friend!!! 🔥🐉
Thanks buddy!
Great video BYB! Thanks for showing us how to do the test.
My pleasure - thanks for stopping by!
Thank you for taking the time help educate us.
My pleasure!
Thanks for this information; it's something that has been on my mind for some time.
Excellent video BYB!
Thanks indeed!
Nice chunk of silver my friend, I believe I’ve seen it before. 👍🏻😬. Love that test, it’s definitely the best test for sure.
It is one I have featured a few times! It is the best test you can do at home for a great level of accuracy.
This channel is awesome!
I appreciate that!
Awesome video! I subscribed! Thanks for the lesson!!
Pleasure, welcome along!
best way too check your silver stack , Bravo
The proof is in the pudding my friend : ) I love this test, been done many times in the past. Kind of you to share it with everyone.
It certainly is - it is such an easy test to do and one everyone should be aware of.
Thank you for this video that I'm only now getting around to! Was Educational.
Although I have acid to test my silver, some of my silver I would prefer not to destroy it. I didn't know this process was possible. Time to get my silver out and double check to be sure what I have is indeed silver!
Cheers mate!
Great info. So anywhere around 10.5?
Nice scale, where did you get. Time to add affinity links ByB.
Thank you for the great information and I love your accent.
Wouldn't a tungsten core be insanely expensive compared to just a normal silver bar? I heard some where that tungsten was pricey
Because of their jealousy, they want it to be fake. Trolls are everywhere.
Quite probably they are!
Pretty neat , new to silver did you end up cutting this open ?
Like this test my friend good for newer people to see 👍
And to demonstrate it can be done on big bars too.
Would love to see you try and make a lead core silver bar to see how difficult it would be and to specific gravity test it
Does this mean 10.3 or 10.6 one should be concerned?
cool,VERY interesting, THANK YOU FOR SHARING
My pleasure, thanks for stopping by!
Ok will try this
Nice one. It's a very satisfying test to watch (as opposed to destructive tests). I always cringe a little when I see someone drop corrosive liquids onto their silver or scratch the edges on an abrasive board. I mean, all the tests are interesting to watch, it's just a shame that some of them involve destructive procedures, which may be unavoidable depending on the degree of certainty you're after.
Would love to hear more about those bars from Sheffield if you have any more details
I think they are from london, not Sheffield!
Nicely done...
Thanks!
Great education!
Thanks my friend! Glad you enjoyed!
Nice info. You could also buy a sigma metalytic tester, but it’s an expensive machine.
It is a lot more expensive than using a pan, water and some scales!
I have seen specific gravity tests on other channels and some people put the part of the string in the water first and subtract that amount from the number they get when they dunk the silver in the water to get a more accurate specific gravity. Does that work?
If you use dental floss, just subtract .18 grams or so for each string you use. So a one ozt coin will come out to 3.02 grams with one dental floss string, and the end result is 2.964. 31.1/2.964 is 10.49.
I'm sure you had no doubt about that huge bar but it's always great when the test "works out", eh? I recently bought a Morgan Dollar on Ebay that turned out to be a dud - I got my money back no problem but the seller wanted to carry out his own tests on the coin when he got it back. What a palaver it was explaining to him how to carry out a SG test - hahaha Great video, big lad!
Send him a link to this video bud!
poor seller..
Science and silver with a big 'up yours' to all who said it was fake.
Yes indeed, not that anyone who thought it was fake would watch this...
Lead is denser than silver, zinc is less dense, so there's a ratio where an alloy of lead and zinc will have the same density as silver.
The specific gravity test will detect some fakes, but not all. Lead and zinc, though, will have a very different conductivity.
(Specific gravity works better for gold. Gold is denser than lead, and while there are a few metals that are denser, their properties are such that pulling the same trick is difficult.)
Yeah. Good fakes are thank God quite rare. Like I've said for a long time that you really don't need very expensive tools to be able to verify reasonable sized bullion as long as it's not in packaging.
And some jewelry too! (as long as it's not hollow and of reasonable size) I bought a jewelry box a few years ago because I spottet that it contained a few pair of silver cufflinks and one of them from an old collectible brand with very good collectors value. The silver price of the box barely was what I paid although it was cheap at that time. There also was some random junk not even worth trying selling but also one destroyed golden cufflink with no hallmarking. It was very close that it was just thrown out but I figured let me test it. No acid I had would damage it - even at the broken soldering joint. OK, very interesting as it totally weighted in at almost 5 gram. Tried my very best to do some specific gravity testing on using very thin treads of dental floss and a 1/100 gram scale. Specific gravity came out as over 14! So I stored it until I wanted to buy some bullion and sold it as scrap gold - it turned out to be 18K! That piece alone was almost 10 times as much worth as I bought the whole box for incl. shipping! Had it not been for my experimentation that piece whould have been thrown (but I'd still be very happy with my purchase because of the collectible cufflinks alone).
third! Wife : 'Honey, did u saw my pan somewhere?' BYB 'Yes i give junior shiny Silvyboy a fresh bath' 😊
Love it!
.??
Thanks......
My pleasure!
Nope, it can be hollowed out inside and other metals can be used for weight
Yes it can - but that is not easy to do and to get the specific gravity just right is a very hard task indeed.
@@BackyardBullion here ultra sound scanner helps, there is precious metal verifiers (scanning), they acoustically scan through the entire small nuggets where also the thickness is judged then the weight is taken into account then the nuggets (coins and bars) are measured for it's physical diameter in another predetermined metrics
If Sheffield (or any assay office for that matter) put their mark on a fake piece, would the buyer have any recourse if they were to bring it to their attention? Are the assay offices obliged legally or morally to reimburse an unsuspecting buyer who put faith in their stamp?
It would be interesting to ask, but I think they would not ever be in that situation, their reputation is too important
You sir, just asked the "bullion" ah, I mean million dollar question!! Couldn't help myself, pardon the pun. But seriously, what recourse is there if you get stuck with a dud bar? I'm abit concerned over the RCM 100oz bars, they don't pass the "ping" test... And I've suspended them in a plastic bag before giving them a "gentle" rap with a hammer. Yet the Johnson Mathey bars "sing" (or should I say "ping") like a canary... You can see I'm a punster at heart...Oops!! Go figure, about the pinging I mean. I fully realize that the ping test is not the end all, just gives you a sense if it is silver. I will have to try this SP test, looks easy. Thanks Backyard Bullion for posting this vid!!
Using calipers and a weighing scale is the same accuracy? (If it's a common bullion bar and know their measurements)
Also thanks for the video!
Yes and no. You can get some variation with a lot of cast and poured bars and unless they are perfectly flat the only way to reliably calculate the volume of a piece is with a specific gravity test.
I've done the test on my kilo bar and it checks out. Have you checked out my latest videos? Thanks for the show my friend.
Good to hear you had no issues, I will go check it out
Is it a bad sign if my 100oz bar floats?😂
lesson here is don't buy large bars, lol. stick to small coins and rounds.
Well, not really....the lesson is you can test easily at home with basic equipment
I got news for you mate! Small bars and rounds are faked at least as much as the big stuff.
Those damn Chinese people don't care if they get your money $20 at a time, or $2,000 at a time.
As long as they get it
@@p4prodrone315 one good thing though, the small rounds and bars are always easy to spot fakes. The weights are off, they never fit into normal capsules, theyre magnetic, calipers show theyre too big, etc. You don't even need to do a specific gravity test. Its the large bars like kilo or 100 ozt or 1000 ozt bars that are trouble. There's a lot of wiggle room for tricks the bigger the bar is.
Maybe someone could explain something to me if I had four different types of metal (gold, silver, copper, and iron) and each had the exact same width, height, and depth with an identical string and identical knot tied on each one, wouldn't the water displacement be the same for each metal?
No gold is heavier than silver and copper is lighter
Bit late I know but the answer is no,it's impossible because if all bars had the same dimensions as you stated,the weights would be completely different as each metal has a vastly different density.
That's why a 1oz silver coin is substantially bigger in circumference to a 1oz gold coin
@Witness Truth Yes, the four different metals, if all are made to the same exact dimensions, would displace the exact same volume, you are right. But each identically sized bar would have different weights, which is dependant on the material. The gold in your example would have the highest density, which would be the mass (weight, which is gravity dependant) divided by the volume. The point of this video is that silver has a specific density, and this video shows you how to find that density, using the mass and volume of that particular silver bar. I hope this explanation helps.
Thank you for Making this educational video.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it and learnt something!
Every days a school day
Glad you learnt something!
I always take anything I buy up to a LCS for sigma verification (and I buy a coin as a thanks)
I had a 100 ounce englehard that didn't register correctly on the sigma and I got worried. The LCS owner said he was very confident it was real and even offered to purchase it.
Just did the specific gravity test on it and it came out with measurements 10.55-10.65 so I feel better now lol
Not sure why the sigma failed on it. Worked fine on the other 100oz bars
Thanks for sharing!
Nice video
Thanks!
Ok maybe I can't wrap my brain around this. But what if a silver bar with a lead core was the exact Same weight as a solid silver bar. Wouldnt it displace the same amount of water. If someone made a fake the exact Same size and weight as real silver bar? Wouldn't it register the same water displadement?
Yes - but the weight of the bar would be different suspended in water - lead weighs a different amount to water, so you would get a different reading on your scales.
@@BackyardBullion Ok I get that now. Thanks!!!!
Volume or displacement differs
It could be silver plated lead (11.342) + copper (8.96) alloy bar for example. I'll give you $10 for it (+free shipping) :)
Not possible, it still wouldn't even come close unless they spent a lot of r&d on the best ratio for that particular coin. Good fakes are spent on much larger bars, even then they almost always fail the specific gravity test anyway because its hard to fake it.
Totally agree., this test is easily defeated. The specific gravity of 10% Sn & 90% Pb is identical. If such a core was plated with silver, it would pass this test
wow how cool is that
Easy as pie!
@@BackyardBullion Or, errr boiled water!!
If i got 10.7 is that a problem?
A better test, that can discern metal alloys and inserts is ultrasonic testing on those bar. The ultrasonic thickness goes for less than $200. Measure the width or length with caliper then use the meter to ultrasonically measure and verify those measurements. Any fake silver/gold/platinum will give different readings between caliper and the meter. Eg, If you measure a 0.999 'gold' bar using a caliper and you get say 40mm, and your ultrasonic meter say it's 64 mm, then it's highly likely it's tungsten, not gold.
I just can't believe your giving that bar away? let me know know if I win.... too cool
I find the gravity test not accurate with junk silver coins.
Yes, that's because silver coins are usually only 90% silver, at least US coins. But I think he alluded to that. But with .9999 fine silver, this test will work.
LMAO @ 3:19
What is so funny? I dont get it....
@@BackyardBullion didn't you say I've pre tied the bar were not going to fuck around with that? Lol Just made me laugh.
My scale won't hold that much weight!
You need a bigger set of scales then!
Why buy a bigger scale, when you can just saw the bar in half? :-)
This is the ONLY true way to tell. Copper and silver are so close in their magnetic properties that, that test is useless. Great stuff for folks today my friend.
Yes indeed - only way to do it at home definitively (or as close as can be anyway!)
I still think you should have cooked it
Yes i think so too!
Where did you get the scales from?
Gosh - I think I got them off amazon - a long time ago though
I bought a very nice digital scale from a smoke shop. Very accurate. Can be used for other things too.
get an over flow can and a graduated cylinder .
too much work and more risk of random errors. lesser steps yeild lesser degree of uncertainties.
+Nzm Ak I would respectively disagree ,I would do the error propagation for u but don't know where to post it
actually I could post a video on it . @backyardbullion If I did the physics for testing this would u post the video ?
other methods with simple steps are much welcomed..
on those errors calculation, it is a good thing to show how you can come up with better degree of uncertainty.
even without overflow type, graduated cylinder can also be used as we just need to measure volume increment when test item being submerged.
x-ray testing is the best, but who can afford the machine !!!
I agree - but that ain't cheap!
First!
Yewww!😎
illimited knowledge 👌
You two are always fighting for 1st place, you should keep a tally!
Backyard Bullion Ik, you are a worthy competitor. And I’ve subbed you! But frankly, we’re BOTH winners to be able to enjoy quality videos by ByB!! 👌
I really don't want to drill into my thousand oz silver bar. Maybe I will try this.
Hard to lift and suspend something that big in water, but one way to do it! Be aware though, if won't tell you whether there are some substitute metals in the core that have made up the weight. A mixed metal core of some denser metals than silver and some lighter could have happened. This is why most big bars like 1000 oz are drilled.
A better test, that can discern metal alloys and inserts is ultrasonic testing on those bar. The ultrasonic thickness goes for less than $200. Measure the width or length with caliper then use the meter to ultrasonically measure and verify those measurements. Any fake silver/gold/platinum will give different readings between caliper and the meter. Eg, If you measure a 0.999 'gold' bar using a caliper and you get say 40mm, and your ultrasonic meter say it's 64 mm, then it's highly likely it's tungsten, not gold. My UTM can measure up to 8 inch thick.
How about investing in a mic so we can hear you?
Um....there is nothing wrong with my mic, perfectly clear my end.
FroggyNight: It sounds perfectly clear to me (maybe a problem with your speakers?).
Or maybe you need some new ears... Better yet (I suspect this is the real problem) I've got an idea!! Why don't you do a specific gravity test on your brain, you can start by dunking your head in a large pot of water (preferably boiling), you ingrate. I suspect you might find an SG range somewhere between .0005 to .001 OR something in the magnitude of twenty tons. The jury is out... The guy makes a very informative video, and the best you can say is to make a stink about a minor, one second audio blip. GET A LIFE MORON.
That’s rich coming from someone who took the time to rant about a comment not even directed at them from over a year ago. What’s going on in your life that you’re so angry over nothing? You ok bud?