Ex-Christian Musician CHALLENGES How Jesus Can be the ONLY WAY to God
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- If you’re going to critique a view, it’s important to accurately represent the view. In this video, former Christian music artist Michael Gungor offers an analogy that he thinks describes Christian exclusivism-the idea that faith in Jesus is the only way of salvation.
Unfortunately, Gungor’s water bottle analogy is fundamentally flawed in at least two ways. First, his analogy assumes all religions are fundamentally the same. Notice how while one water bottle has a superficial difference-a pink bow-they each contains the exact same thing-water. So, if you were thirsty, it wouldn’t really matter which bottle you drank from. In fact, it would be absurd for someone to demand you drink from the one with a pink bow. Ironically, this analogy more accurately describes religious pluralism-the view that all religions are equally valid-than exclusivism.
This leads to the second fundamental flaw. The water bottle analogy fails to account for why Jesus is the only way of salvation. After all, there’s no good justification for why someone needs to drink from the water bottle with the pink bow.
#RedPenLogic #Christianity #Apologetics
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"If you're going to critique a view, it's important to accurately critique the view." That covers close to 99% of objections to Christianity I see online.
Pretty much
Especially from Islam. They can't even get the Trinity right. "Atheists" are just as bad. I put it into quotations because being an atheist kind of requires you to know the basic fundamentals of a religion well enough to be able to critique its core principles.
In other words, most so-called "atheists" on the internet haven't a clue.
This is the strawman fallacy summed up
They don't understand so logically it's not true 🤣
"accurately represent the view"
Dude lost me when he said Jesus is like one water bottle among many water bottles. . . . .
Also, Jesus is not like anyone else, let alone any other religion, because he is the ONLY one who claimed to be God in the flesh, claimed to be the Christ, claimed to be the one who would die at the hands of the religious leaders at the time AND rise again from the dead, AND actually do it!
It's called watered-down religion lol.
@@muppetonmeds good one
Really prove to me that Jesus actually existed in the first place there might have been a guy named Jesus who lived at that time but there is no proof of the miracles he supposedly performed and don’t say the Bible because it has been proven that the first writing of the Bible was 50-100 after Jesus supposedly was on earth
He didn't claim to be God.
@@nusknvp_I know right 🤦♂️ Just another example of people not actually reading and/or studying the Bible for themselves.
it was sad, but not surprising to see Gungor go this way. His theology was never very deep, he always seemed really wishy-washy about his Christian beliefs, and videos like this just show he never really fundamentally understood the gospel; he knew lots of "Christianese" but didn't truly understand it. Most de-constructionists I've seen will so confidently poke holes in a version of "christianity" that's not really quite what the Bible teaches, and it's just so sad, they're often rejecting things that I reject too, but they turn to the world instead of to what God actually wants. But tbh I don't think they want to hear the truth, they typically have such fundamental misunderstandings that they could've found the truth with minimal research if that's what they wanted to do (which is what I did with my own "de-construction" time, which just deepened my faith and removed those doubts instead lol). We can only pray for their hearts to be softened and hope they turn back to Jesus some day! But I'm grateful for ministries like this one that make it easier for those who ARE seeking to find the truth.
Amen, brother!
Or they "deconstruct" as a means to an end of wanting to live the way they want. They'd rather drink from a broken cistern as it was described in Jeremiah 2:11-19.
You have a very carnal way of understanding the divine.
@@Michael-Archonaeus Anything deeper to say?
@@jan_777 Do you?
@@Michael-Archonaeus I don't follow. What definition of carnal are you going by?
He's judging by the fact that they're all plastic bottles full of liquid. He assumes, on this basis, that they're ALL water, and the One who said, "Drink from This Bottle alone" did so for arbitrary, capricious and petty reasons.
No -- He wants him to quench his thirst with clean water, but all of those other waters contain poison.
They are all religions that all claim to be the right way to God.
@@Michael-Archonaeusand they are all wrong. Jesus proved he was who he said he was.
@@Michael-Archonaeus Correct. They all *claim* to be water that will quench your thirst, but only one of them is. The rest are poison.
You have to base your choice on the actual contents of the bottles, not their outward labeling.
@@Michael-ArchonaeusNot all water is equal and can quench your thirst and can kill you. Jesus is like purified water through a hoard of stale, poisoned, saltwater, bacteria filled swamp water, etc. Only one can quench your thirst and that is Jesus.
ANd every water company (including the many Christian water companies) claim that theirs is the only bottle that doesn't contain poison. Everyone is saying mine is water all the others are poison. As an atheist, there is no reason why I should believe your water company over any other.
I’m so thankful for this ministry. Tim Barnett is one of the great Christian apologists of our time.
no he isn't.
He sure is.
This guy is the epitome of Romans 1:22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
@jamesrussell8535... It is grievous that there are so many who count themselves but, in God's eyes, know nothing. 😞
Almost every modern Christian falls under that too
And how do you know that the author of Romans was "wise"?
@colinmatts no One more wise than the Holy Spirit, Who inspired every word found in Romans
Bible says not believe in Bible big stupid. You no want be stupid?
Don't do drugs kids.
😂
There are an infinite number of possible answers for 2+2, but there is only 1 right answer.
How do you know Christianity is the right answer to anything?
@@colinmatts As someone who has studied majority of mainstream religions, Christianity is the most consistently accurate chronologically, geographically, and eye witness based. It's the only one that has God come down in human form and raised from the dead (with hundreds of eye witness accounts) Also Jesus is the most historically documented figure in early history, more than plato, more than Flavius, etc.
The question of right religion is not so much that 2+2 has only one right answer but rather that, 2+2, 3+1,5-1, 10-6,56-52 all yield the answer 4. 4 being the analogy here for God
@@colinmatts You know when God reveals himself to you.
@@Romans8-9 I won't hold my breath waiting
Since I have juvenile eplipse, this was a perfect analogy for why God is the only way. If I take the wrong pill or don't take the pill, then I could very well end up dying or in the hospital, but if I take the right pill, then I'll be safe. Perfect analogy Tim.
It's a ridiculous analogy. Every religion claims to have the "right pill" to cure your sin. How do you know the Christian pill is the right one. Or that "sin" is not just a fake illness made up by religions trying to sell you their cure
I actually didn't like the analogy. Simple because there are NO other needles/pills. It's not about choosing the right or wrong one. The pill that works vs the pills that don't work. It's about choosing the only pill that exists and not believing others when they preach a false God/pill and trying to find that pill that doesn't exist.
@@The757packerfan I personally liked it because it was saying you COULD choose any of them, but only ONE was the right one to take. That's why I liked it. But I understand if you didn't and do see where you're coming from.
It’s like water verses soda, both are refreshing but only one is good for you
Point blank taken!
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Very nice name, by the way, Brenton. Never heard of it before. It ought to become common!
Or... clear water versus a clear, slow-acting poison thay has a strange aftertaste.
I'd say it's more like looking at a cup of fresh water and a cup of sewer water, consciously choosing the poo water over the sustaining water, punching the waiter in the face after he warns me not to drink the sewer water, the master of the house wrestling me to the ground, wrenching the bad water out of my hand, and miraculously making me desire fresh water, and now I desire to be one of His waiters telling other people how much better fresh water is than sewer water... But your analogy was good too! 😅
Owned.
@@JoshxDude92 well done.
A big part of Gungor's premise is that the container is what is being debated, not the contents, but the container is important in identifying the content. Say we are walking through the store, I grab a bottle marked "water" then I grab a bottle marked "bleach", it will be no surprise that the contents of those bottles will be different. We aren't debating if bottles marked "water" contain water, but this analogy assumes that all bottles contain drinkable water. There are superficial similarities in many religions (being a liquid in a bottle) but there are very significant differences if you look into the doctrines that they teach (being water or bleach).
Yeah. Buddhism is way better then Christ water.
everyone seems to assume satan is going to be horrid. if i go to hell then GOD is "punishing me" for my sins,
but why would satan want to punish me too? satan hates christians. if i'm being punished by satan, then satan is
doing god's work - that makes zero sense, hell is eternity having WAY MORE FUN than you ever could on earth, this
is what god hates, god wants you to suck his toes for eternity, satan is SAVING you from singing amazing grace for
eternity. hell is where satan thumbs his nose at god and gives everyone a good time, no mind control, no ten
commandments to follow, just eternal life that you can probably quit if you get bored with learning guitar from
hendrix or trying to grasp relativity from einstein. why would hell be undesirable? why would satan want to torment
me - he hates god and christians, not sinners.
@@HarryNicNicholas you have expressed a tragically flawed view of what Hell is, probably shaped by a combination of what we see in popular fiction from the middle ages and modern literature and video games.
.
Satan isn't punishing anyone in Hell. In fact, he's in Hell being punished himself. There is no "Lord" of Hell but God alone. He created it specifically for punished Satan and his angels. From Scripture we learn, "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25:41
.
Milton's "Paradise Lost" gave us images of Satan as some kind of tragic anti-hero. "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven!" thunders Satan after being cast down. Nope. Satan is going to be in torment, as will his angels, as will be all those who are eternally separated from God.
.
Hell has nothing to do with fun. The Bible describes it as "the outer darkness.. where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." It's not going to be an eternal party where the everyone gets to partake of all the earthy delights of the flesh and party forever. That is a sad, false view of Hell.
.
Looks into the real biblical teaching on Hell. Utter separation from God who is Good. Being separated from him is being separated from everything that is Good: joy, love, hope, peace, contentment, faithfulness, kindness... none of those things will ever exist in Hell. The torment will come from knowing that is true, and yet the soul freely chose it. The worst torments are those we know we deserve for doing wrong, and yet we choose the wrong anyway.
I love it how skeptics think their words are so creative and profound. They all think they’ve got the “gotcha” message.
When their so-called "hot takes" are actually freezing cold.
They do! they sound like a 5 yo old who had a profound thought!
they are not lying, they think their L's are W's
Remember that this isn't just him trying to lead others astray. This is how he himself was led astray. This isn't a malicious attempt at a gotcha, this is a man who is deeply confused and lost.
I'm not saying we shouldn't eviscerate his argument and render it unto ashes while he watches. I'm saying we need to remember that he isn't the enemy. He's a lost lamb.
@@Ryvaken I wasn’t insinuating he’s the enemy.
A master class of a response.
And Mr. B wasn't even eating an apple!
I would have used his analogy with the water bottles. The issue is that the other bottles are empty and cannot help no-one's thirst.
Or the others are full of hazardous liquids.
How do you know the other water bottles are empty when millions of people drink from them and manage to slake their thirst? Some of us don't even think we have a thirst
I see. His problem is that he doesn't assume that Jesus is the true apocalyptic death cult leader.
@@colinmatts
What? The water in the water bottles is salvation, or eternal life. You can't say millions of other people drink from them when you can't show us that they obtained salvation/eternal life.
@@The757packerfan and can you show that Christians "obtained salvation/eternal life?
So heartbreaking to hear Micheal Gungor has fell away. Ive loved his worship music and its helped me to get closer to the Lord. Praying for him 🙏🏽❤
why? why be sad? why do you care? when you're in heaven will you be crying for him? is unhappiness ALLOWED in heaven? christianity is the best cure for caring.
@@HarryNicNicholas We care because we don't want people to suffer the same fate we all deserve, burning for eternity. We want everyone to live in eternal happiness, not eternal torture.
One bottle has water in it, the rest have sulfuric acid.
And yet the "sulfuric acid" seems to slake the thirst of billions of non Christians. Explain?
@@colinmatts "Seems." Do you have any other "arguments" other than your empty appeals to emotion and arguments from outrage?
@@ScottAlanBecker38 What specific argument are you responding to? Your comment seems to be somewhat incongruous to the message I left on this tread. I think you'll find that it's the religious who are appealing to emotion. I try to appeal to logic
And the bottle with water is Buddhism. Congratulations, Buddha.
That is a straw man fallacy, the H2SO4 might seem like that is slaking there thirst, but is not, if they do not believe in Jesus, they will end up in h3ll. H2SO4 look very much like water, but it is not water at all.@@colinmatts
I went to Aquire The Fire when I was a teenager and Michael Gungor along with his wife at the time (I think they’re split now) played the praise and worship for the whole event. I went a few times to those events and that was the one time I felt such a strong anointing not only at any of the Aquire The Fires but just in praise and worship in general. I was heartbroken to hear that he had gone off the religious deep end and left Christ. Really sad to see that happen. I really pray he finds his way back. He seems so confused and most likely led astray by new age baloney.
In 2005-6 I did my internship with Teen Mania's Honor Academy, which did ATF. In hindsight, it is sad how many false converts and heretics they worked with and supported.
Or he just left your cult.
I went to ATF too in the 90's. I loved it. Good memories. 😁
Maybe to go with his water bottle analogy: you’ve got a bag full of water bottles but only one actually contains water while the rest are full of vinegar. If you’re thirsty there’s only one that would quench your thirst while the rest would only exacerbate it.
I'm still not a fan of that either.
Christianity(Truth) is: There is only 1 water bottle. Anyone who tells you there is more than one, is just lying.
Perfect.
@@The757packerfan , maybe if we said water bottles are like religions: from the outside, they all say, "this is the way to God/god/the gods" but the contents are vastly different. We all know "religious" people who have all the outward appearance, but in reality are (as Christ calls them) "whitewashed tombs, full of dead men's bones."
I love how you clearly and concisely break down the fundamental flaws in false arguments.
Fantastic video as usual!
You could have even stayed with his water bottle analogy and just say that only one water bottle has actual water in it, the rest have vinegar or sulfuric acid or some sort of poison, even if they may look the same from one perspective, it doesn’t mean they actually are the same.
This is why I never take advice from entertainers and celebrities.
Amen! absolutely AMEN to this! the worst advice we get is from entertainers!
What I personally find hilarious about criticisms of Jesus is that the people who decry Christian exclusivity never criticize Hindu exclusivity or Muslim exclusivity or atheistic exclusivity.
Every worldview says it is the one true view (even the Bahai (sp?) faith which claims to combine all of them will still exclude those who exclude). But only Jesus is criticized for saying he is the way to God.
Interesting. When I hear them condemn Islam and every other worldview for doing the same thing Christianity does with the precise (and I mean PRECISE) same level of conviction, volume, and frequency, in EVERY WAY,, I'll take their judgments more seriously.
It's just because he grew up in the Christian tradition.
People who came out of different traditions criticize those just the same.
Christianity isn't exclusively being targetted, however you do get a distorted view, since most of the English speaking world is traditionally Christian, and you probably don't communicate much with non-English speaking people who are more likely to come from a different religious. background.
not to mention they execute you for such speech in those parts of the world@@Michael-Archonaeus
@@mgntstr Yeah, that's certainly a part of it as well, at least in some non-English speaking countries, but absolutely not the majority.
it is the rare exception that a nation permits blasphemy of their rule@@Michael-Archonaeus
@@mgntstr It is not a rare exception that a nation allows criticism of religion, quite the contrary.
Jesus is the truth, the life and the way. He is the truth in totality. All truth eventually leads to Him. I was raised Christian, left and searched for years for truth, praying to not only find truth yet have the wisdom to recognize it. I searched many places, ways, tried many things, became proficient in many New Age areas, guess you could say I drank a lot of water however when I got filled with two mighty rivers of living water in a mind blowing out of the blue supernatural experience, I knew, I knew nothing and had much to learn. Lord knows I love learning from the best. Hallelujah!
No. He isn't. He's dead. Sorry.
@@adamcosper3308 My goodness, He's real and sorry for your luck that you don't know this basic truth. You do yourself a grave disservice in not discovering what is real and what is not in this human experience.
@@rev3182 No thanks. I really have no desire to join a cult of human sacrifice and blood magic.
The first 2 Gungor Albums are incredible music with mostly good messaging throughout. It breaks my heart to see him take this path. Praying for God to reach him, and that he would repent of his reliance on his own faulty understanding.
I'm so blessed by your ministry, Tim. I often fear confrontation when it comes to my faith but each of your video's has taught me that there is usually a simple thread that unravels the whole argument once it's touched on. You also remain consistently respectful and loving in your confrontations. God bless you and your family.
I'm convinced most of these folks who "deconstruct" their faith, were looking for an out all along or at least at some point along the way.
It's very easy to walk away from the faith if you just completely misunderstand it on a fundamental level from the start, and then just ride that ignorance right out the door.
That is is a problem, you describe, with anyone who has not truly placed their faith in Jesus. It shows up later, like this guy, who never meant it.
Sure buddy. They certainly couldn't have real reasons for leaving. Just keep worshipping that zombie.
To be honest his theory sounded like what someone high on pot would come up with.
LMAO!
Have you ever tried getting high on Jesus? Stick to pot. Jesus gives a really harsh, judgemental high.
The problem is we’ve put music above the word of God. Music carries a lot of emotion, while the word carries truth. Let your emotions follow truth and don’t try to create truth to follow your emotions
Needle analogy was spot on brilliant
This is my belief but have no Bible verse: If someone has never been provided the Gospel, then Jesus will judge by what they were taught, and their choices.
God will condemn those who know a choice is wrong, and do it anyway.
I remember like 15 years ago when Gungor released their song "Beautiful Things". I hated it from the moment I first heard it. Then I watched as Christians were moved almost to tears because they thought the song was so powerful and amazing.
Looks like I was right about Gungor!
I thought that song was good when I first heard it but I quickly realized how flawed Gungor was when I challenged him on Facebook about Adam and Eve. He seemed to indicate these early Old Testament figures were purely symbolic, poetic, etc. I stopped listening to his music after that exchange with him.
I really like your videos. You're very knowledgeable about the Bible and theologically in general. Also your videos are short, in all honesty I can only watch long videos if they're with either R.C. Sproul or James White and sometimes Jeff Durbin. I'm not a young man. I came to the Lord late in life at age 45, that was eleven years ago. I never knew that God had always been with me. I have 3 degrees all in the humanities but the only thing that has interested and fascinated me during the last ten years is theology. I'm going to seminary, I guess better late than never. God bless, Mike.
NO ONE picks the wrong bottle “accidentally.”
No one "picks" the right bottle either.
I think that musician didn’t have a basic grasp on anything that he was talking about. It was utterly baffling how incoherent or irrational his argument was.
Tim, I love how you break down these arguments. It helps me to think more clearly about what is being said and how to counter it with truth.
You can choose to drink from many wells but only One Has Living Water , Thank You Lord Jesus 💓💓💓
Praise the LORD!! 🙌🙌🙌 I am so thankful for His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus IS The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Don’t let the proliferation of online bots and real life demons trying to tear the faith down deter you.
Wow I didn’t know Michael Gungor fell away! Man… I pray for his return.
One of your best videos, man!! :)
Thanks! 😃
Bringing tears to my eyes. My brain, gets so much clarity for these short videos. 😊
I think you summed this one up perfectly. He's the perfect candidate of the typical stereotype of never having been a Christian in the first place. When you misrepresent Christianity that bad, you clearly never understood it to begin with, and therefore could not have possibly been Christian.
Does that make you feel better to judge others? Maybe your faith is just that weak. Sad.
This is a great example of the no true scotsman fallacy. He doesn't believe exactly what i believe so he's not part of my group and never was. Seems easy to say that til you look at thw 70 other sects of Christianity that call each other wrong for the same reason.
So good! I'm grateful for your content. While I was watching Gungor's part, I wondered if he meant that because God said, "No other gods before Me," God must mean that there *are* other gods. That's not what God meant, of course, but if that's the reasoning some people use to get to the idea that other gods are valid gods, and that God Himself said so, that might be worth addressing.
How do you know what "God meant"?
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Has any nation ever traded its gods for new ones, even though they are not gods at all? Jer 2:11
"Moreover, The Infinite God explicitly stated that no one comes to the father except through Jesus. So there's that too"
Major mic drop moment.
He said it at the beginning of his statement. He said that he was raised as an evangelical and taught that Jesus is the only way but next he said that he “thought that meant there was a bunch of options” those two concepts are exactly opposite so I’m not sure how he concluded he had options if he was taught that Jesus is the only way.
I'm sad to see Mr. Gungor go down this road as so many have before him. Trusting in faulty assumptions and bad analogies can have such terrible consequences.
Yeah. If you're not careful you could end up worshipping a Jewish zombie.
Nothing about Jesus is a zombie even when the Hollywood depiction is applied. Zombies are the living dead and are walking corpses. Jesus is the living God and very much alive. Try again. @@adamcosper3308
Also, Christianity lived out is so vastly different than other religions in that you can't earn your way to salvation (a method based in pride and self reliance). I find pretty much all other religions are based in that false belief system of pride and self reliance. We as Christians are only saved by trusting in Jesus as our Lord and Savior who gave his life for us out of his abundant grace and mercy. Good works spring up out of the belief and realization of his grace. Not the otherway around. Our good works could never earn that.
Great video. Thank you for covering this!
Your dogma has several serious faults. "christianity" did not invent morals or ethics. In fact its attempt at formalizing those things is a sham. jesus did not give his life. You cannot kill a god. Stupidly, many "christians" try to sanitize this myth by saying only the man part of jesus died. This notion of a temporary death of a virgin god-child is the act of a blood cult gone mad. Worse still, Acts 1.9 has jesus the god-child going up into heaven. Organic bits cannot go up to heaven. The "christian" god is said to be omniscient. Therefore he knew all of this in advance. A ridiculous charade, as if god were playing Russian roulette with jesus life. And yet your appalling religion demands trust, belief, worship and subservience.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
@@KeepingWatch95 "christians" love to cherry pick from the bible. My turn. John 19.14 says that the last supper occurs a day before the passover and jesus gets crucified on day one of passover. Matthew, Mark and Luke all tell a different story. Oops. John 18.13 says jesus is taken to Annas and then later on to the high priest. Matthew, Mark and Luke say jesus is taken directly to the high priest. Oops. What a crock.
@@rf7477 Let both grow together.
@@rf7477 Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Love that explanation and analogy on exclusive 👌
@Mr B. I just want to say, in a brotherly Christ-Filled way, I love you man. I hope you're doing well and pray for your persevering encouragement.
Truth is truth. There can only be THE truth. All religions and atheistic philosophies contradict each other. Logically only one can be true.
There is so much evidence that supports the Bible being reliable. Along with the witness and guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can know the Truth.
Witnesses? There are no witnesses to a virgin birth. This has been confirmed. There have now been thousands of virgin births registered in the US, all without witness. All religion is bullshit. There is nothing special about the "christian" bullshit.
Good on you be along it all down. I was kind of confused and didn’t even k so where to start in that one because there was just soo much wrong with this argument. I was really just absolutely astonished that this guy grew up around Christianity and didn’t have answers that Sunday school teaches you when growing up in the church. This just goes to show that knowing is purely supernatural revelation..
How can you "grow up christian" and not even know if Christianity is monotheistic or polytheistic.
Because the Bible is a mess and suggests both at different times.
Tim dropping another banger as always. Thanks Tim!
There can never be 2 infinite being.
As for 2 different being to have a differences, one needs to be different from the other.
But if one is different from the other, they cannot be infinite and the other needs to lack the attribute the other being has.
Pretty hard to understand but read it with prayer for 10 times and it might help
Sure, I'm just making shit up, but pray about it 10 times and it will make sense.
Your apologetic, *and* the commenters your video attracts, earned a sub. “Come, let us reason together” means so much in these latter days.
Maybe you should reason about why Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet.
Also saying all religions are valid or true is like making a square circle 😅
Great point!
This objection to the skeptic no longer works.
There is such a thing as a square circle, in multiple different ways.
It's better to point out how the different religions each contradict the others in major premises / conclusions.
Cold case Christianity has some great info on this exact topic
@@nathanielalderson9111 yeah I know the main point is it's in theological fallacy which most skeptics don't accept anyways because they don't believe any religion is valid regardless they're just trying to be nice
@@nathanielalderson9111 also anyone smart enough to understand the premise yet somehow give corky answer is just being a troll but that's how people are i guess
@@brick2392 I didnt see what Nathaniels point was either! some people like to argue over nothing! but he is correct in saying Cold Case Christianity has some fantastic info!
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Sounds like the way a complete loser would talk. This John guy seems totally insecure.
Gungor clearly doesn't understand salvation or Christ's teachings. Praying for him to know the truth. Thanks for the solid vid, Mr. B!
may his L's be turned into W's by god's grace
Thank you for the excellent video, dear brother 😊
The Lord’s love + grace be with you
Hope you are all well and resting in Jesus saving love + grace 😊
Blessings friends 😊
I feel bad for that dude, He's gonna grow old and wither away like that. I know God will always touch this guy's heart and patiently waiting for him to look back.
God's grace is irresistible, if God "touched his heart" he would be saved. God is not waiting with his fingers crossed hoping for someone to choose him.
Even the Catholic Church addresses the issue of those who never came to know Jesus (or God) in their Lumen Gentium.
God is love and mercy and he will be just.
Michael Gungor loves to hear himself talk, but ironically it sounds like he doesn’t even hear how foolish his words are when said out loud.
Thank you for your response! ...
Oh my. He's talking in circles, and probably thinks he's brilliant. I'm guessing he's been drinking the Liquid Death water...
Those pseudo-intellectuals full of cognitive dissonance, pride, selective logic and intellectual dishonesty tend to think they are "smart, rational, logical" ones in debate...
That's why they're are very few of any Christian musicians I trust. Never know which ones are real, which are just using this as a way to gain a foothold in the music business etc etc.
Next time he should complain water is wet, sky is blue - it is just what it is, God did set rules and that´s it, he can "complain", "philosophize" as much as he wants, but that´s not "how reality works" and he can´t do nothing about it...
after reading some of the comments I am heartened to see many others wanting to pray for him and having been helped by his worship songs. Let us all in the comments pray the power of our Savior Jesus over Mr. Gungor that the spiritual stronghold that Satan has him in may be broken! And let it be, in Jesus name!
They dont accidentally pick the wrong God. They intentionally and continuously reject the right God.
All religion relies on insidious indoctrination of defenceless children. They have no choice.
But there are also many born into the wrong faith :(( As kids, they are taught the wrong beliefs tt become deeply seated in them. I guess tts why Jesus commanded His disciples to go share the gospel tt many such folks will hear and realise tt they hv been deceived.
@@aclp003 "christianity" became corrupt from the moment of virgin birth. Most "christians" never find the courage to even question the vast pack of lies fed to them as children. The sickening heaven/hell cringe of "christianity" inflicts its poison very early on in the life of most "christians".
Keep looking to Jesus, leaning on Him in all things, rejoicing and resting in His hope, strength, saving love and grace 😊
Our gracious Lord bless you, strengthen you + keep you, as He SO FAITHFULLY does 😊
Every blessings + love in Jesus, our wonderful loving, living + gracious Saviour 😊
There are no new heresies. Satan has always led us astray by getting us to doubt God's word: "Did God really say...?"
Of course, you properly answered and corrected the old heresy WITH God's word.
Amen brother, God bless you!
It is also interesting to note that "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." doesn't necessitate there being a multitude of actual gods, just that we don't worship anyone/thing more than God. There are countless ways we can put 'other gods' before God, without literally a one of them being an authentic/actual god.
(I.E don't pray to bronze bulls. don't worship money, possessions, or women. Don't pray to that long-haired weirdo in the homestead claiming to be a god on earth. etc. etc. etc.)
We tend to make gods out of our desires, in other words, and God demands/deserves to be second to nothing/noone.
Once somebody invents a god it is nearly impossible for the rest of us to get rid of the filthy thing.
They don't ask because they are honestly seeking truth. They just are bitter and want to try and disprove it
They WANT to live the way they want, with no limitations. Having a GOD that has rules & expectations crimps their style.
I woulda said that the first mistake was that Jesus was seen the same as other water bottles.
I would’ve instead said Jesus is the bottle filled with fresh, clean alkaline mineral water while the other bottles have mixtures of water, juice and soda.
What’s so sad about this to me is that Gungor is so incredibly talented. Ghosts Upon the Earth is one of the greatest albums of music I’ve ever heard. Breaks my heart.
Pray for Mike. He was hurt by terrible circumstances and lost his faith, but that isn't the end of his story. Beautiful Things is still one of the all-time great love songs to God.
Gross. God shouldn't phuck humans.
Excellent Point, thank you for standing up for the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL.
ALSO A VERY MERRY AND BLESSED CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
GREAT response! Clarified all the confusing arguments…
this should be a reminder to those who are vigilant that just because a church can put out trendy music or have trendy sermons doesn’t mean they understand or can teach basic fundamental doctrines of the faith
Gungor was the writer of "friend of god" with israel houghton. Hurts to see him like this now..
Genius! Don’t stop your work👍
What a spot on video, the needle analogy is extremely on point!! Thanks for breaking this down brother🔥✝️❤️
Excellent. One of your best videos. Keep fighting the good fight, Brother.
We all make mistakes. His, is just costing him, his eternity. Colossians 1:19
John 11:25
He also said that He was the "I AM" of the Bible (John 8:57-58; Exodus 3:14-15). Hebrews 1:8-9 refers to both Jesus and the Father as God.
Amazing. God bless you all.
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your videos. You do such a great job of explaining the flaws in these arguments in a clear and straightforward manner.
Excellent lesson, thanks so much: Well done! Well reasoned!
Thank You so much for your ministry Tim.
Amazing video. Thank you for this explanation!
God bless you so much, this is a great ministry. Stay strong in the faith brother!
Well said brother
So well done. 👏👏👏
Jesus is different and is capable of much more than the other options. The religious pluralism stance becomes inverted when you begin to criticize religious standard claims, it becomes hypocritical, it becomes the most intolerant, it’s contradictory to say all are correct except that one, it doesn’t fit with a presented standard because then they aren’t all correct.
Unfortunately my take on this is in the title. “Ex-Christian? Was he truly saved in the first place? Thanks Tim!
Tim, you’re doing such an important work with these videos & I’m so thankful the Spirit has led you to do this type of work in our culture!
To my fellow commenters: a lot of these comments sound so hateful and condescending toward the other guy. Please put yourself in his shoes, and ask yourself how you’d like people to speak about you, even if they disagree with you.
Amen! Thank you for speaking the truth. Praise God!
God is One God among any vain imaginations of man, all other gods
Nobody, or nothing else can claim to be the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Only Begotten Son of the Father God in Heaven, who was Sacrificed upon the Cross at Calvary, Rose the Third Day, and now on the Right Hand of the Father in Heaven. JESUS said, JOHN 3:13, "NO one has ascended to Heaven, but He who has came down from Heaven, that is the Son of Man who is in Heaven AMEN.
Btw showed my paster your channel a while a go and he loved it, he was also a teacher and a Principal
When one bottle teaches you to stop stealing and fighting and be honest and fair but another teaches hatred and fighting, they aren't all the same
This is what happens when people have religion and not a relationship with GOD. When we fail to personally know and connect with GOD on a spiritual level, we end up with questions like this.
Not really! Jesus had a personal relationship with GOD and he was tested too! Being tested is PART of being human. Coming out of the test with our faith intact, is divine!