Dropping out: Is college worth the cost?
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2012
- Students with promising ideas are paid $100,000 to drop out of college and become entrepreneurs in a controversial program founded by billionaire Peter Thiel. Morley Safer reports.
It's not that college is good or bad, it's the damn cost that's out of control. There's a lot of good classes in college, but there's also a lot of useless ones too, dump those and bring cost down, it's a start.
exactly, there are stupid pre-requisites that you don't even need or you have to take if you have to start at a lower placement, and they aren't transferable which is a waste of time and money and college tuition goes up every year, and when you live in the dorms you can't split rent like an apartment, a certain amount is charged per person so you can't split it and lower the cost
True man I hate talking bullshit classses that we will never use in the real world. College is bullshit unless you do something that is marketable skill do not waste your time in college. I know many people with master degrees working in starbucks and mcdonalds
So you saying basket weaving is not a good class or career to major in?
sean craig lmao
Sean Craig: It's simply a matter of supply and demand. As long as their are more students wanting to attend class than their are slots for those classes then the price will continue to go up. Stop demanding them (i.e. insist that the colleges drop those 'useless' classes else you won't attend that college) and they'll either drop those classes or lower the costs.
Thiel didn't say "don't get an education." He said "don't go to college." DIFFERENCE.
Everyone is missing the point. YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE TO GET AN EDUCATION. The point is not NOT to get an education. You do not need to pay $250,000 for an education when you can go to a library and read, go listen to free lectures or those with minimal fees, watch lectures on the internet, gain knowledge and wisdom through experience, etc.
Shewib I agree if you're talking about liberal and fine arts but for STEM you really need credentials from a university to get a job.
The discipline to go through a "Selfmade independent study program" is some skill that people don't get it as easy. Daily free time can be there, but distraction are huge.
Or go to a trade school or Community College. I have a college education with a low paying job and high student loan. Ugh
Shewib I hear you but I don't think the resources aren't as accessible as it is in college.
With increased demands, these mediums will also experience a rise in cost. They are cheap now, but like all things in capitalist system, increased demand leads to higher cost.
Colleges do not teach you to be an entrepreneur.If anything they give you a small chance to maybe work for one.
E.L.Dorado bingo
Prof. Wadwah claims college is what teaches u to become an entrepreneur. That guy is delusional.
@@BallinNQnz You're right. He is really delusional.
Entrepreneurship doesn't come from college, it comes from within yourself. College is simply another way to connect to people who will help your achieve your goals. Simply put, it's just another stepping stone, to sharpen your networking and intangible skills.
Bee Thao It may be for those things (connections, Selling your product) but it is more challenging. If your graduate with debt, your going to have to delay starting a business because you have to pay your debt and most people who pursue starting a business don't due to burning out in college. My advice for people like that is start a business, and if you go to college, major in Accounting (that's the real business degree) and do your business on the side. If your business fails, you can still have a job in Accounting (since it's a good major) and pays well.
If you wanna be a doc, go to university. If you wanna be a businessman, don't go there. You can learn a lot more by books and the internet than from getting a degree.
Nick Shoutout for the advice, this is real talk
Nick , I agree now. I went to college back in the 90's were the internet did not exist until later part of 90's by that time I had graduated from college but what I learned as the explosion of the internet came about is that u can invent or learn ideas just by searching through the internet to create an invention. so to these Millennial kids of today I say do your research before thinking about going to college unless of course you want to e a doctor or lawyer. you do need training to become a engineer or information technology.
well put laid
Exactly, there are some majors that are useless. They teach stuff that you can learn on your own. But there are certain things that you really need a degree on. I always tell people to choose a degree that it’s difficult to learn and that you see future on it like computer science, accounting or medicine. The problem is that people always goes for the easiest degrees, degrees that a lot of people have. If a career is not for you and you want something quick and that will give you a job go for a trade.
your right, becoming a medical doctor needs education, however, not everything in Medicine is taught in med school or by the consultants in hospitals. EXPERIENCE is one of the most important factors. I encountered times which even medical books have almost zero information and even consultants experience is not enough either.
My sister makes double what I make and does not have a single degree. Me on the other hand have two bachelor and can't do anything with it without a master degree. I went to a private school that costed 40,000 a year and thank god for scholarships. My point is college isn't the only option you have to be successful. I look at her and regret the stress and tears I put into college.
She works for a beer company. She was just moved to the lab and now makes around 80,000 and her husband works for the same company
@@k.a5765 I know it's late but in what position if I may ask?
"He's completely out of touch with the real world" - Says the Academic to the Businessman
Colleges over in Europe are only 3 years long. I really have no idea why I have to study about women/gay rights and photography when I want to program computers.
+youngbloodx correct. But college in Europe starts a year later than in US.
Thats an excellent question. Society, the government, often tries to shove its agenda down our throats as a way of making us comform. You want the degree than you need to play by their rules. Its disgusting!
it used to be 5 years of college and then you didnt need a master's degree and now you do but they tried and succeeded to copy the american system and now most last 4 years except medicine 5/6 years
You need to remember Europe is not a country, it's a continent made up of independent sovereign nations. I've been in Europe 11 years and have traveled extensively. Every country I've been in a college degree is had after 4 years.
You can avoid these general education classes by getting a certificate rather than a degree. Your choice.
see the bias for the professor is that if no one goes to college then who's gonna pay his salary
Carol T. Is it worth the price. Remember our students are 28 th in the world for math!
It’s all about the money 💰
Sawyer Duke you nailed that right in the crosshairs.
YEP...... Oh wait the drugged football team rapes and stabbings
dumb reply because he could just say (and im on your side) thats why we need college to get better at math.
This reporter is incredibly bias. His job is to lay the facts, not judge his interviewees. Yes, leaving college is risky, but starting college was risky to begin with.
True. When most people go to college today, they are rolling the dice now.
Lol. the reporter...
>calls peter theil boring by saying he's "living a predictable, pamepered, billionaire's life..." like his hero, " howard hughes."
>makes fun of theil's political party choice, and one he chooses to support publicly
>calls theil a "premadonna" and pokes fun of his "outlandish projects." e.g. reporter: his water city LOL his water city has no college LOL.
>laughs over tea with his new indian teacher friend, who is employed by the school system ;)
Start your own business. The trades are in high demand - plumbing, electrician, restoration, drywall, painting. Learn business, run your own show, and AVOID DEBT!
The interviewer has seen better days. He is stuck in the past. There is a need in education to build a person's basic knowledge of a subject. A person can get knowledge through the internet, book, or professor. Most of the time, college hinders a person from innovating. College is not for all.
Apocalypse Wolfman But college really isn't for everyone, something my ex did not get. Cause she's a major conformist
***** It's pretty ironic isn't it?
Jimmy Strudel Pretty much why I gave up on getting mine. I might as well be bragging about being able to afford toilet paper this month.
Jimmy Strudel If degrees weren't becoming common place for jobs, then I'd be inclined to disagree but as it stands I have to agree. Now it pays to learn how the internet game works, start a business and best learn how to placate social media to get enough attention for people to become interested.
Yes.. the interviewer is 65 years old, and the interviee is 40 years old. There is more than a generation, 20 years between the two gentlemen, an huge difference!!
I would enjoy this if the host wasn't being constantly condescending and criticizing Thiel's personal life and other projects. It's rude, annoying, and just plain unnecessary. It does not contribute to the topic and sounds like simple bias.
As someone who dropped out of college without any promising ideas. I did just fine over time.I own two online stores which collectively bring me on average $200,000-$240,000 a year for the past 5 years. I'm even looking towards diversifying my income streams. The key is to have a plan and continue an educating yourself one way or another. The method best suited for me was a combination of self education and mentorship.
That professor who teaches at Duke & Stanford is completely out of touch with students who financially struggle to afford college. Perhaps his ridiculously high salary is one reason why they’re paying their tuition costs with interest. College... it’s all about the money 💰
The education system is the problem, not people going to school. Right now the K-12 system teaches only one thing: get good grades so you can go to college. Not every single person needs to or should go to college. There are great careers that have good prospects and will always be in demand that college has no capacity to fill. I like the plumber example, yes you can make good money as a plumber eventually, just like every career you start out at the bottom, and no one is going to go back to using an outhouse so there will always be demand. Trades have been sold as a "you weren't good enough for college" career which is just terrible. We should promote getting a solid education and college as ONE PATH, no THE path to a better career.
Absolutely, that is what I have been trying to say to everyone but some people who are so delusional that there is no hope to redeem them.
Live in Kalamazoo Michigan and get 💯 % of it paid. It’s called “ Kalamazoo Promise “ program. You can even use it for private colleges.. go almost to any university...do not need to be an American either. F
Absolutely correct, not only that but the economy and badly paying jobs is also an economic factor! Big problem!
Shane Ourada agree with you. By the way ever heard of this? Live in Kalamazoo Michigan and get 💯 % of college paid. It’s called “ Kalamazoo Promise “ program. You can even use it for private colleges.. go almost to any university...do not need to be an American either.
I’m legit thinking of dropping out, I am tired of school
Me too bro. especially during this quarantine. Starting to think it isn't for me.
Daniel C. It might sound scary to drop out but it’s really not as bad as you think. Since I’ve dropped out I now I have time to study things I actually have interest in & pursue my dreams. I say go for it, you’ve got all the support you need
@@ntsubeats what are you learning about right now?
Ivan Kara I’ve always wanted to make music and edit videos. Hopefully monetize on CZcams and get sponsors in the future so I’m doing that every day trying to perfect my craft. I post most of my work on Instagram @ntsu.bodybuilding you can check my content out
Sure you're tired! You have to go to school or go thru life on "Your Interest!!!" The educational system probably didn't help students to find their interests, only the schools interests! Just saying.
College is damned joke. I came out of college with a 3.97 GPA and that doesn't mean Jack these days! Then the field that you get your degree in requires 2 to 5 years experience and the employer won't look at you if you don't have that experience. So I went to college for nothing and wasted my time!
Mary Allen get the experience required lol...... This is why students work and go to school 😊 graduate with a degree and at least some experience to go with it. Community college students are often faced with this path.
Nate: Not everyone can go to school while working full time schedule wise. Even if they can, you have to put all your time to studying; Otherwise, regardless if you have a job or not, you're not going to do well in college. Some just can't work while going to school at the same time.
Nate Motivation, who works full time while in college? People start looking for jobs in their field after getting their bachelor's degree. If they are lucky enough to find a job in their field, they can go for their master's degree where they will be working full time while taking classes part time.
Mary Ellen, I feel so bad for u. I do not know why jobs require experience when the only way to get experience is to be given a chance.
That's exactly my problem along with many other coworkers! I have a good education from a prestigious university; however, I don't have enough work experience. It's a catch 22. You can't get the job unless you get the experience but you can't get the experience unless you have a job. That's why I am always stuck working crappy jobs. Furthermore, it's not easy to just work govt jobs since the people with disabilities, etc. receive extra points on the test to get ahead of the crowd.
stupid College need you to take those stupid General Education classes, which we took in high school so why we have to take it again?! Waste of time and money!
My exact thoughts those general ed classes is what is the hold up. College should only teach you what you need for the career field basically hands on stuff. Those general ed courses will not be used in the job field. Like for example nursing you should be taught exactly what you are going to be needing for that career.
Same here pal
I dropped out just ridiculous sitting in class waisting time! And how much it cost! I can use it for traveling! Life's to short you can do something better than that!!
Marc Meex amen to that
People need ot stop looking for a 'path to success' and get it into their heads that in order to get what you want, you need to take control of your life into your own hands and do it directly.
Not once does the professor mention the cost of college. If college was still affordable I don’t think this would be an issue. Step foot into any college and you’ll see wasteful spending paid for on the backs on the students and their parents hampered with enormous student loan payments.
Just go to a community college. Loads cheaper
My responsibilities and requirements in my current job I could have learned in 6 months of job training... I needed a degree to get the interview, but I needed NOTHING for my job to learn what my job required. Our educational system and economy is completly out of whack. We all wasted thousands of dollars and years of time for things we don't even use at our jobs.
No one NEEDS to go to school. Thats the message.
Emerson Herndon No the message is if you DON'T know the right people with the right tie and handshake then you have just as equal a chance in life with someone who never went to school, that's the message.
+Tony Hancock True to the core
+Emerson Herndon
If you don't get a degree in a HIGH NEEDS AREA then you wasted your time.
bigtruckseriesreview definitely
frisby850 Viva La Revolution!
What is the anti-college movement in the country the professor asks?! It comes from us Millennials because we got duped into taking on oodles of student loans because we were utterly brainwashed that we HAD to get a college degree at ANY cost or we would turn into completely trashy, useless heaps of human waste! Even if you: work during college, start at a community college before transferring to a 4yr school, pick a sensible degree, live at home, and do your best to avoid student loan debt it is nigh on impossible to avoid if you do not have family members with cash to help. My husband and I made the mistake of going to nursing school to get a bachelor's of science in nursing. At least we actually got jobs after graduation due to picking this degree, but we graduated right when the economy collapsed. Many people cannot get jobs, let alone a job that pays enough to have quality of life after you pay student loan debts. Now almost 10yrs post graduation we look back and see the many careers we could have chosen that didn't require a college degree, and we would have ended up making about as much as we do with a degree. In addition, when you account for the 4-5yrs of your life NOT making money while in college and the time wasted paying on student loans it often doesn't add up to really be worth it. If it is a wash or a detriment due to costs why bother?! Add to all of this that student loans are pure evil as they are the most difficult debt to discharge in bankruptcy...you really can't ever discharge them. The govt can garnish your wages to seek payment, take your disability money or social security to pay on the debts, and tax returns can be withheld to pay the student loans....and the debt won't go away. Federal student loans were granted the ability to be discharge after 20-25yrs (depending on what year you graduated), but good luck chuck with private student loans as there are cases where a former student with loans died and the private student loan company still continued to harass the parents of the deceased for the flipping payments!! Why can you rack up debt buying big screen tvs, boats, houses, etc and discharge this debt in bankruptcy....yet if you went to school in good faith to work a career and contribute to society and you graduate to find that you aren't making as much as anticipated, you get hit by a bus, etc you CANNOT discharge this debt and are hunted down like an animal by the govt seeking repayment?!! I am just waiting for the govt to put folks in default of their student loans in concentration/labor camps like the "poor work houses" of Victorian era England. It is sick!!! The opinions on college have changed somewhat in the past 10yrs or so, but the notion of "needing" a degree is still far too entrenched in the brainwashed masses minds.
Jeremy & Cassie L I couldn't have said what you said and better and your spot on.
Which careers could you have chosen which didn't require a degree?
I agree with you 100%. I am telling my girls to avoid a 4 year college, but to get special training for jobs that are in demand that require less than two years, and to look at being an apprentice or assistant to get experience in order to be promoted. I don't have all the answers, but I tell them they can live with me as long as they need and to do their research without feeling they have to make a decision about what they are going to do for the rest of their lives at the age of 18 or 19. I mean, that is just silly. Most of us don't even really know who we are and what we really want until after our 20's. If you are 18 or 19, get a job and save your money, and do your research and talk to people who have the job in which your are interested because you can really learn a lot from them on what to do and what not to do.
Live in Kalamazoo Michigan and get 💯 % of it paid. It’s called “ Kalamazoo Promise “ program. You can even use it for private colleges.. go almost to any university...do not need to be an American either. Note
@@motheroftwo5551 Be careful. The grass isn't greener on the other side. I'm a college graduate and now I'm financially supporting my relatives who had lengthy careers as plumbers and electricians. They made good money and didn't save as much as they should have. By 50, their bodies were completely worn out and they had to quit their jobs. Now they don't have a college degree. Trades pay very well, but you are trained for a specific type of job. A college degree is very broad, so you can pursue multiple career options. Pursuing a career in a trade such as plumbing, construction, electrical, etc is great, but your body is more likely to wear out at a younger age, so you need to be prepared for a potentially shorter career. This means that you should tell you daughters that they need to be much better at saving and investing than a college grad.
That's why I'm attending a community college, then transferring in 2 years. As much as I want to go to a UC or CSU straight out of high school, I understand that this is the smart and most inexpensive way to go
Go to college if you plan on going into STEM career. If a kid makes it to IVY and is qualified as poor, it should be free.
Most public colleges are cheap if attended in state. Around $10,000 a year for tuition.
First two years are wasted on general education classes.
cheap when compared to big public or private universities, but Fox is right. 10k is a serious chunk of change, especially for a kid fresh out of high school with little to no work experience.
Brandon Driver junior colleges are always there
Only go to college for a STEM major. If it's Arts and Humanities, your better off going to Trade School or even Community College.
Issac Moreno stem majors in same situation what r u talking about?
Hill Bill
10k is cheap if you’re filthy rich.
Morley Safer went into that segment with obvious bias. Instead of finding evidence that Peter Thiel's libertarian ideas are "unfounded", he attacks his ideas and character. Horrible journalism.
I'm a college grad that got an associate's degree in collision repair and I can back the claim that this degree resulted in nothing more than a hobby. I never achieved anything more than a 400 net check a week. Then, I spent 3 months training to be a truck driver. I now make 5 grand a month fairly easily... 3 months gave me more than my 20k college diploma did...
Bachelors degrees pay more than associates
I wish I had the billionaire businessman mentor me for 6 months on entrepreneurship
The internet has made college obsolete but many can't see that. If you know how to read and have decent drive you can be extremely successful without a degree.
I'm 51, at 41 I took out a student loan to attend a vocational school. I never worked in the field (pharmacy tech) because other jobs paid more. The school was $16,000 for a 9 month program. I borrowed $9000. They now want $16,500. $9000 (I borrowed) $5000 (interest) $2500 (processing fee). At 16 I quit school, got a GED and went to work. After 5 years in the work force I got into a Union trade. I gave up the trade to stay home and raise children. The economy crashed, me and my ex split, I had to reenter the workforce and the worst choice I ever made was going to that school and running up a bill. A bill that you can't file bankruptcy on. My way was always to work and keep looking for something better. That's what I'm in the process of doing now. The school was a bad choice and a setback financially.
Everyone has been told to attend a college right after high school. I am one of them, I feel as if someone who wants to attend college must first work around the degree they are wanting to pursue. This will then help the college graduates to obtain a job when they graduate. They will have "experience" this is what jobs now a days are wanting from someone. Companies do not care about degrees!!! They care about your work ethics!! Textbooks are full of crap. Books not affiliated with school systems have more things to offer to learn about the real world. Having a dispatching company at 19 almost making 6 figures and coming out of high school. It is not so damn difficult to be successful. It does take time! It will take sacrifices and I do believe college is a profit system!
(Only my opinion with this video)
The problem with college is that it is obsolete. It's an industrial age institution trying to exist in an information age. Nowadays, people can receive better quality education at a much lower cost elsewhere. All it will take for the entire system to go bankrupt is for a significant amount of employers to lift their college education requirements.
Well that is an opinion. I have degrees in Engineering from UC Berkeley and Stanford, two traditional Research Universities. I'm convinced they firmly grasp the idea we are in an information age. You suggest I missed an opportunity for a better education at much lower cost. Do you have any specific suggestions?
For starters, NASA has their own education program. I'm sure many other prominent companies that have a large focus on engineering do as well, and they're taught by actual engineers; not professors.
Are you suggesting that if you want to be an Engineer working for NASA, you should just get an Engineering job working for them and they will send you to some inhouse Engineering school? I am sure it would be a very rare exception for NASA to hire someone with the intention they will work at NASA as an Engineer if the candidate does not already have an Engineering degree from a well recognized college Engineering program. There are some jobs that use Engineer as part of the title that don't require an Engineering degree (maintenance Engineer in a large building or just a train Engineer. While these are important and respected jobs, no one would suggest they are doing similar work as an Engineer at NASA or IBM.
By the way, another successful Entrepreneur College drop out was Apple cofounder Steve Wozniak. He left UC Berkeley in 1971 after his freshman year. He started Apple Computer with Jobs in 1975, they were successful and Wozniak has been successful in other endeavors. After he made tons of money at Apple and could do anything he wanted, we went back to school at Berkeley under an assumed name and completed his Engineering degree in 1986. He must have felt it was a worthwhile investment of his time.
I'm majoring in Kinesiology to become a physical therapist. And yet, I had to a perspective on racism class. I'm a black male from southern Georgia, so wtf. What do I need to know about racism that I haven't learned in life?
Aren’t you glad they’re requiring people to take that class? Changing ignorant point of views
You probably could have taught parts of that class!
Clifford Dorsey like Arabs, Caucasian, disabled, people who live in remote areas as well as religions are discriminated against. And yes some African Americans are racist too. Must learn that
@@MichiganUSASingaporeSEAsia blacks are not racist... some may be vile to others or REACT against all that has been done to them by the strong arm of colonization and slavery... tis what it is
Instead of student loan. What about business loans for people who want a business
"What makes it [idea] successful is being able to take that idea and turn it into an invention and turn that into a company. Those skills you only gain through education." HAHAHAH. 2 degrees. LEARNED NOTHING about taking an idea and making it into a company. All of it was a waste of time! I learned NOTHING.
Mark Zuckerberg did not learn how to make a company in college.
Make the world a better place buy eliminating, poverty,sickness,war aging ,homelessness and hunger.Beat that !!!!
Life is a power/control game. No one that "matters" wants to promote the survival of potential competitors. If anything, the "important" people are obsessed with genocides and "eugenics" (elimination of folks unlike themselves).
Even junior college is crazy expensive. JC was damn near free back in the days. Got my AS degree and spoke to some younger cats years after and its over a $100 a class. Just insane.
College is a business. It advertises itself to mostly young naive people like myself that it is the gateway to a successful life. You must go to college in order to get a great job, take vacations, raise a family, and live comfortably. In reality it can be a huge trap, with loans and interest rates that most of don't and aren't prepared to understand. My advice would be to try a JC or tech school. Before committing to a big 4 yr university, be sure about the major and direction you want to take with your life. If I could have done it all over again, I would have saved the 80k and started my own business, college was a huge waste of time.
Getting good grades and going to college is NEVER enough... you need to
be creative and scrappy... Anything else is a dead-end ... Employers
want go-getters, not competent students...ANYONE can follow a recipe.
"challenged in the wrong ways" excellent description
Have to disagree. I have an undergrad and master's degree and I don't use either of the degrees for anything I'm doing now. I learned everything I know from self-motivation -- my undergrad was in English yet I wrote for the University newspaper, yet taught myself to code front-end dev. My master's was in advertising art direction - learned the fundamentals of design, layout, composition, typography. I did that for a while, but I found myself drawn more and more into the interactive UX/UI world. I had a good enough portfolio to make that switch. And, ironically, I've gotten the comment about how when I conduct user testing everyone seems to think I'm extremely good at it. But, to me, it's not much different, in terms of communication and interviewing, from writing for my Uni newspaper years back. And I get compliments from how good my typography and layouts look for an online applications - from my art direction days.
My points - no educations is useless, but it all depends on what you do with it. You'll be extremely surprised at how you can apply what you've learned to other fields when you go into them. Keep an open mind, keep learning and don't be afraid ask for help. Ask stupid questions...and you'll be surprised at how many people felt the same way when they started.
Before you drop out, make sure you have a plan.
Kathy J sadly most people don’t .
I wish these colleges would start these students off taking courses thats relevant to their field of study as oppose to being required or force to take refresher courses that don't matter.
The guys is trying to get talent before they reach the markets and get picked up by private and public sectors. Degrees are just worthless paper with the value being retain in their persons as human capital. College can be cheap if you go about it the right way with junior colleges, scholarships, buying used books versus brand new but a decent education can be had without going to college if you gain that knowledge somewhere else. Universities do require too many credits for class student don't want nor need though. Standardize Testing for employment is best and you'll find some college student not worthy and fail those.
He is absolutely right: there are trainings that need credentials in education such as becoming doctor,scientists & professors, but the necesssities of getting education in practical sense diminish in other area of studies. Even in engineering, you would need more experiences than taking time at school to learn stuffs which most likely not be used in future. What the higher education perhaps can provide to most of people is chance of getting matured during their college life.
Honestly I think it just all depends on WHY you are going to college. Go to college for a CAREER in mind, and you are usually set. But if you are going JUST FOR a degree, depending on what kind, you can get screwed. For example, I'm in school to be a Registered Nurse, and I plan on going as far as a bachelors with it (BSN in Nursing), in my case, it is worth it. you can't be a nurse without a degree. But to go to college for a degree in history, art, music, something to general will not get you
He had me at floating sea colonies. Wonder if he's hiring?
sometimes it's the classes that you are forced to take and they are hard
There are many promoters of university education who confuse going to college with education. Most wealthy people became wealthy through self-education. This shows that college and education are not necessarily synonymous. College is not for everyone; if you want to do a job that doesn't require college then don't go. If the cost of the education doesn't make financial sense compared to the pay you will receive from your career afterwards then pick a different field or accept that you will be broke forever. Be realistic, run the numbers beforehand, and if you can't calculate the cost-benefit numbers of college cost versus salary after college then don't go to college until you can. The worst investment is the one you don't understand; this includes college.
So true man, Im at mid life crisis at this point, a mid junior college drop out at the age of 24 of which i consider myself to be quite bright, and hard working; I just honestly have no idea what i want to do with my life. Ive always considered myself a hustler by nature, and a an aggressive person be it in the gym or through work but I dont enjoy college from a practical standpoint and its even worse through an economical view. Im fortunate not to be in debt but the hardship of explaining
Man, videos like this makes me worried and somewhat stressed out when thinking about going to college next year. Especially since i have no career or job in mind that i really want
How's life now?
Tuition in the UK is less(average is $15k and under) and the education is better. The Unnecessary gen edu classes are not taken. students study their actual major for three years. Or, what about the Dutch, education is free. US what's up!
The Dutch are following a socialist model that will fail in a few years. Beware.
When will you people learn? Nothing is really free. Everything costs something.
It's money from colonization... that's why it's free
As someone who teaches at a small New England university, it’s clear to me that Thiel doesn’t understand the larger goals of higher education and how humans learn, and many of the comments below reflect this. No doubt, college can be very expensive and this is something the majority of colleges work very hard to control, and it is an issue we need to continue to work on, especially in lowering student debt and the interest rate on educational loans. But going to college isn’t simply about “getting a job” as most people think, and if that’s your primary reason for attending, then Thiel is correct, individuals can and should head into the work force and start working (ideally in a field you’re interested in). But college is more than just preparing workers, its about creating thoughtful, well-rounded citizens that can go out into the world and help society become a better, more democratic place now and in the future. Reading a book or watching a lecture is just the very first stage of learning something. We may become more informed by doing this, but learning is a much longer, iterative, and social process that requires time, a community, and, ideally, a thoughtful teacher who knows how to create a great learning environment. Going to college is, primarily, about growing intellectually, emotionally, and socially; “getting the job” and finding meaningful work after college depends on developing these aspects in each individual student. Nevertheless, educators need to continue to be clear about why college is important beyond job skills, and we need to continue to make college as affordable and accessible as possible.
papi en fuego well said
The problem with what youre saying is.... historically employers would just train workers for jobs. Now theyre requiring degrees. What you're saying is true about what the purpose of education is, but like everything under capitalism it's been hijacked to make as much money as possible and employers have moved away from training anyone and pushed that off onto higher education. & also college is nowhere near affordable, if you look at statistics higher education has inflated more than anything else under the sun.
Lately college has me frustrated. I'm currently studying for a degree in engineering, which many in college know, is a difficult major. Lots of math, physics etc. The thing that aggravates me so much is that everything is done by computers now. I'm never going to have to calculate the force on a spring pulling a block at a 15 degree incline. I went to an exotic car exhaust system fabricator recently. How do they design exhaust system parts for their cars? They take a pen thing hooked to a wire, tap around at different points on a cars exhaust and it builds a 3D image on the computer. All they have to do from there is modify it. I feel like I'm paying for the future job security, and that I'm not paying for an education. If I was put into a 9-5 job now with good pay, I guarantee once I'm settled in after a week I'd be fine...without the degree. Anyone else see what I'm saying?
sgfreak96
Trade School for the win for employment. We have a real shortage of plumbers, electricians, hvac, stationary engineers and many more careers. Plus most trades today pay 50k to 100k with an average cost of 10k or less.
Why does the interviewer looks like he is going to cry the whole time?
It's the same thing that is going to happen to you when reaching his age 📕📔📖😰
CBS
Cause he’s old AF
I went to college (Oregon State University, graduated 1986), and I think it's worth it. Your parents can claim you as a tax deduction if they help send you too college (depending upon how much they help you), so this helps offset the cost for them. I think it's helped me find a job when I've needed one. It just looks good to an employer that you stayed with a course of study and finished it. And even if you didn't graduate it looks good that you got some college credit.
3-4 years is a long-term investment. Problem is though initially the investment may seem like a good idea, come year 4 the market demand has shifted so significantly that what was good in year 1 is no longer.
College is worth it if you take something that will allow you to work for yourself.
I believe the main message is not about not going to college. But rather: What are you passionate about? Find your calling. Do what you love and help change the world through your passion.
In my opinion and situation yes a university is expensive and you're basically buying the social experience vs community college where people just get their shit done for a third of the price
Costs aside! It really depends on who you are and what u want out of college. I am a terrible test taker and not into the idea of writing essays for 4 years straight and I am not that wealthy. I'm leaning over cheaper and quicker alternatives and looking for a trade that I could have a passion for.
Well, the first time I went, on went on an A+ program, which is practically free money for like 2 years or something
I went for a semester and wasnt really liking it...at all. My grades sucked as well
I never did know what I wanted to do. So I took a year off and went back again, still not knowing what I wanted to do
I was really only doing crappy in these two childhood classes, and in the middle of the semester I decided just to be done with school. Not my thing and I never could focus
it also really depends on what your core values are, do you want safety and security? or do you want freedom? And yes there's a difference between the two.
After finishing school of any kind, whether high school or college, you have to present yourself well at an interview.
The only reason we are having this debate is because of the immense cost of higher education in the US and some other countries. Education helps you become adaptive to the changing job market. Following one idea can be good in the beginning, but you would have to be on your toes all the time, looking out for the changing trends.
For regular working people a certificate or a community college degree is sufficient. Nursing, HVAC, plumbing just about anything in the medical field can get you a comfortable life with a fraction of the cost.
There so many different avenues you can take, be it Apprenticeships, 2 yr Associate Degree and Professional Certificates. You want experience? Get in contact with a Contracting Agency, Internship, Volunteer, Apprenticeship. The problem is... most people is programmed to think within the box instead of thinking outside of the box. Education is the most beautiful thing that man has ever created. There's people in this country and in the world who give anything to receive an College education.
MY experience in Community College. I was working full time, I went to school Monday - Thursday, nights, 6-10 pm.. for 3 years... year round, Spring, summer and fall semester. I got my AA/AS degree, and 3 career certificates in Electro/Mechanical Design Drafting, CAD, manufacturing process. My pay went from $8.50 per hour, to $22.00 per hour. BOOM.. 2 1/2 times pay increase with a 2 year COMMUNITY COLLEGE DEGREE...
There are 3 main paths through Community College.
1. Transfer to a 4 year university. >>> YOU MUST TAKE ALL TRANSFER UNITS
One of the reasons why most people graduate from college into an occupation that didn't require any is because they majored in studies that aren't going to get you a job. I do agree with your thoughts about quality of education depleting in it's own way, but I also do agree that it's a terrible move to be in major debt out of college with a degree that won't even land you a job.
He said a plumber makes as much as a doctor. Well, I don't want to deal with sewage for the rest of my life. I am happy to be an architect, I don't even want to be waiter dealing with food ! Mr. Thiel. George wu, AIA, ARCHITECT, NCARB In my days in 1958, the tuition for the entire year was only $1,000. when I graduated in 1963, the tuition doubled. I could pay back my student loan $2,300 with $ 28.87 monthly for ten years after I graduated. And above all I learned a job I love all my life ! As an architect !
Hey there April Yes sure I would like to get connected with you! :) a build a network and share ideas, experiences advice, and I'm enthusiasm to hear from you
There are still a lot of professions that still require a college degree. Based on what I saw of the business programs and taking some business courses at the two universities I attended I would want to attend college prior to starting a career in business. An example of the usefulness of college was the supervisory/management training the federal government sent me to when I first entered lower management was given at Utah State in Logan. It was an 80 course and I learned skills that I used the remainder of my career, it is hard to describe how useful this training was. In a supervisory position in the federal government 40 hours of human resources/supervision/management training is required every other year for as long as you are in a supervisory position. Eighty hours equals about a 4 or 5 semester unit course at a university. My degree also required 6 units of economics (2 courses, 1 macro and 1 micro course) and those units allowed me to understand a lot I never would have otherwise.
During college I also took technical writing and speech course. Both were required for my degree, which was a Bachelor of Science in Forestry. Most of the full time, resource management jobs in the U.S. Forest Service and ranger positions in the National Park Service require a degree in an earth science. MY degree involved quite a bit of work in range management and wildlife management as well as hydrology and soil science. This knowledge was incredibly useful in interacting with the resource functions I( interacted in as a fire management employee and later a recreation and special land use management.
College, not matter what degree you get, teaches you to write and speak, something that so many non-college grads don't shine in. When working in a scientific field, such as natural resource management, even at the lowest levels where you are directly applying science on the ground requires a basic understanding of science. Hopefully, non science degrees also teach how to gather information and use a process similar to science to discern fact from fiction, legend, tradition, rumor, etc. T'hat skill seems to be absent from many in the U.S. population.
This man questioning the usefulness of college made a ton of money by being in the right place at the right time and apparently being able to judge what new and untested ideas will work. Some is just chance or luck in this also. What are the odds of a person being successful in the same way. What are the chances of failure following his advice? I support a different definition of luck: it is when opportunity and good preparation meet. I consider college a good way of getting prepared, but there are a lot of ways to be prepared, especially in the trades. Good preparation also includes working very hard, beyond what you think you are capable of, right from the start, no matter how menial that first job is. The ability to work in teams, as part of an organization and a good attitude are all essential.
One more observation. After a career with the federal government I tried to find a job in the resort town I live in. The town has a major ski area. Most of the business people in town have no formal, post high school education. I've worked at 4 different businesses in town and I'm amazed how poorly business owners and managers are at human resource management. Almost everyone of them have very high turn over, . Those that do talk about not being able to get good people. However, much of their retention and quality performance problems are a result of their own dismal human resource knowledge and performance. IF they had the chance to attend college and learn something about managing people I think they would be more successful. In fact, there are 2-3 businesses in town where the owners either have business degrees or took some extension courses in it before moving to his small town. Those businesses are very successful over a long term and have grown some very sharp people. The other business owners dismiss college and extension courses as being "too corporate" or "useless book knowledge." "We know what we are doing, and don't need anyone to tell us anything" is a quote I've heard a lot.
I had a friend who received training in giving mammograms for one year with a one year intern at a really good medical center in Houston, Texas. She has now been employed at a top rated medical center in Houston over several years, has never had a student loan, and makes more money than most people who went to a 4 year university. I went to a 4 year university to be a social worker. Without a master's degree which I could not afford, I worked for the Health Department. When I looked at the list for welfare persons, with my salary if I had had a child as a single parent I could have received welfare. That is really sad, and that was about 20 years ago. Now it is really bad. I am going to encourage my child to find out what jobs are in demand without going to a 4 year university that would require special training for two years or less, have her get experience with those that are experienced in her field even if she is just an assistant at first, and learn skills that will separate her for others going for the same job. She says she wants to work with children with special needs, and so she and our family are learning American Sign Language since many of our next generation of children are nonverbal or nearly nonverbal. And instead of having her go to college to be more fluent in ASL, I will hire a tutor who is fluent in the language. Yes, hiring a tutor may be expensive, but not as much as a four year university that often does not offer ASL as a language. After she graduates high school, I plan to work with her in learning to do her research with my help instead of just sending her off to college as the public schools and universities want us parents to do.
Why did the education community dismiss his idea and mock it? Because they'd lose money!
Because the cost of college is so huge, that there is no way to pay off your college costs while going nowadays. Maybe 40-50 years ago, that was a possibility to pay off your tuition with a part time job during the school year and a full-time job in the summer, but now that possibility is only a reality in the realm of community colleges, which are a very good investment compared to their four-year competitors.
I think he is on the right track. we need more company's to exist so that they can higher more people and grow the economy. the economy won't grow if everyone goes to college and their are no company's. the other problem is that their are more people their there jobs
My friend was saying at his office the people in their 20s-30's were required to have a college degree. The people who were older weren't. Same pay. Anything above 30k a year a master's.
Mind opening interview.Both sides are right in someways.But college courses have become astronomical to finance.Higher education means higher tuition and higher pricing for knowledge which shouldn't have a price tag.
Everyone in the video keeps referring to college or university as being "education", yet like most they do not understand the difference between education and training. Education aims at creating a permanent behavioral change in the individual through imparting knowledge. Training, unlike education, is focused upon gaining a particular skill. Training is taken to master a particular task or job. So, college / university is more akin to training than it is education.
Going to college is about learning so that you can contribute to society with a mature, professional mindset the knowledge and skills that will produce great value to advance your field. Be honest with yourself: Have you truly mastered the foundational concepts of your studies in order to produce value to employers, or do you need more time to learn these concepts (even retake the classes again)?
You cannot build higher than your foundation is strong. How much have you truly learned? Or do you just do the work without understanding the reason why? Passing classes is NOT equivalent to gaining knowledge and skills. Focus on learning, your grades will reflect what you have truly learned. And what you have truly learned will allow you to succeed at your future job.
Peter Thiel has it right-end of story. Our society has to catch up to him-it'll take a few more years.
+Jimmy Strudel Very well said Jimmy!
Does school matters, like university of Phoenix vs. university of Arizona? Also, does major matters, like chemistry vs. political study? How does this documentary select their study sample?
The moderator sounds out of touch with modern times, employers care more about how much experience you have rather than how much education you completed.
Peter Thiel is the man!! Take note that Vivek Wadhwa does not offer a single concrete piece of evidence or example to counter Thiel or support his claim (simply saying someone's 'wrong' does not count as evidence or an example to support his claim)
Although not possible any time soon, we need to value education enough like in Europe or other continents to the point where we only have to pay hundreds of dollars rather than thousands of dollars. College will not guarantee that you will get a job. That's not the point. It's a path to getting a job just like other paths for getting from point A to point B. Also, if you don't go to college to get a job, you gain different skills whether you realize it or not. There is always merit to different subjects whether we know it or not and whether we like it or not. Just because you are studying math for instance doesn't mean that sociology is completely useless. Education is not only what educators make of it, it's also what students make of it. It's like anything else. People make what they will of the experience/situation. So, to say that one thing like education is ABSOLUTELY useless is just an excuse/outlet for people's frustration with the cost of college. If we didn't value education in the first place, we wouldn't even have primary school and secondary school, much less a post-secondary school. So, we do value it enough to have implemented these levels of education, but we should go further with our value.
Just like the 2008 Housing Market bubble, this too will kill us.
There are jobs that require a degree and jobs that don’t. This is not an all or nothing situation. Never heard of anybody claim that a doctor or judge doesn’t need a degree. We need to be wiser about where we place our time and money, rather than condemning all universities.
ALSO THERE CAN'T BE 5 MARK ZUCKERBERG'S HMM.... Owners: 1) WorldStarHipHop.com: Lee "Q" O'Denat, 2) PlentyOfFish Pof.com: Markus Frind, 3) Tagged.com: Johann Schleier-Smith, 4) Myspace.com: Tom Anderson, 5) LinkedIN.com: Reid Hoffman
College is a joke. 90% people go for the complete wrong reasons (b/c they dont know what they're doing, what they wanna do, just to party, or b/c their parents make them). The quality of education has dwindled and prices have skyrocketed. Almost every single person I know who graduated from college is now in an occupation that required absolutely none. From an investment standpoint it's a terrible move for most (90% plus) of the people.
College was the worst mistake of my life. A complete and total waste of time and money. Never never never borrow money to attend any college. The debt is absolutely not worth the risk.
I agree with Peter Thiel, have you noticed or talked to College students lately? ... WTF? how can 10 classes that have nothing to do with IT, a Teaching degree or Liberal Arts, or help you if you are trying to be a Biologist?
this comment makes no sense
Neither does going to college and then have no job and move in with your parents while your debt is 20, 30. 40 thousand dollars or more.
briggs9187, and an immigrant from south of the border is smart enough not to fall for that trap.
and also people are geniuses because they make huge sacrafices so that they are able to learn while others crew around
Thiel is correct in many instances. So many top schools advertise that your child is going to be earning in the six figures by the time they're 35 or 40, when in reality, your earnings capability also hinges heavily on what you study, not just where you go to school. We need a vocational system of education that tracks less intelligent kids into vocational job training (like Germany), instead of having them waste tons of money on a degree from a crappy school.
Getting into thousands of dollars in debt just to jump into the pool of uncertainty, wondering whether you can get a decent paying job or not, is not worth it.
That being said, people should do their due diligence instead of going in on it blindly just because your parents went to college or your entire HS graduating class is attending.
Where's the other 46 mins and 18 seconds ?
The thing that is misconstrued here is that it isn't a problem with being educated. No one is saying that we shouldn't be educated, the problem comes with the establishment. The crazy amounts of money that these institutions charge has skyrocketed over the last few decades to crazy amounts. Pro education, anti establishment.
Exactly.
That movie Reality Bites was produced in the 90s and so these problems with unemployment has long existed.