Yeah I’m wondering how they don’t have Atleast 250K per video! This is what I needed when I was a teenager. I’m 26 and I’m excited to try some of this as I build a workshop
I know this is an older video, but for the carbon fiber material, if you get really close and look down the length of the carbon fiber, you can actually grab one or two of the strands and pull them out. This leaves you a perfect line down which to cut with your shears, and it aids, a bit anyway, in avoiding some of the unraveling issues. Cellophane tape works as well, however.
Where you been all my life... you are easy to learn from. :) thanks a bunch I've been flying carbon fiber blades for over ten years and I learned more about my blades in five minutes with you video..
great stuff. laminated (using epoxy) craft paper then wrapped around a mandrel, cure then notch works in place of the custom aluminum cutting tool. I use these for cutting holes in foam.
You go into too much detail. In a 100% awesome way! I love your videos. I sometimes find my attention drifting away when you're talking about something I know about, but then I get brought right back in because you explain in so much detail that I don't think anyone has all of what you say in their knowledge-bank. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks! It is always a balance between too much information and not enough depending on who's watching and what they're interested in. I could go into significantly more detail believe it or not, but without that background it wouldn't be possible to select the most useful info or defend a decision to do something when questioned about it.
Your video when you were talking about making your own propellers vs buying them you were talking about the profile of the wing and how it's best to have an asymmetrical profile so that there aren't opposing forces. I was about to google why we don't use flat blades, I know the basics, but then you went right into explaining how house fans, ceiling fans most notably use flat blades and are inefficient because they are just vectoring the air. That was great!
You are an excellent instructor! The thoroughness and cadence of you presentations are quite enjoyable. In my professional life I worked with carbon fiber in prosthetics and orthotics. You may find pulling a vacuum on the lamination may improve uniformity in thickness, reduction in weight, and finish. All the best!
Thanks! I've done a lot of vacuum bagging, but in this instance the extremely light and flexible core, bends and twists as the laminate and the plastic tightens with the vacuum. After several attempts, we just did it the old fashioned way.
Only half way through and I am quite impressed with the quality of the content in this video. Subscribed. Over time I will go through some of your other videos on topics that I am interested in.
Instead of the quartz micro-beads, I used to add the leftover foam dust (occasionally divinycell dust too) from shaping the foam core of surfing / windsurfing boards. Performed really well.
Two more types related to carbon fiber aside from un-directional (no weave) or weaved: standard modulus fiber, intermediate modulus fiber & ultra high modulus fiber and in these 3 sub-types are sub category: spread tow (the individual fibers are woven) and regular (groups are weaved instead of individual).
extremely good info./suggestion about cutting the fiber (along with everything else you said); when ever I've worked with fiber, I always got aggravating strings everywhere and had to do a lot of extra sanding. This info. is not just good for prop./rotor fabricating, but with any fiber construction.
suggestion Now I'm no expert but I do question things when I see it, Some people will see how you build this type of a rotor, And they may think they can do the same with a bigger rotor for possibly a helicopter, or a drone type for personal lifting of packages or even human lifts.? Now where you put that epoxy into hold the plates that tie them together, I myself would have tried to make a H plug with the lands of the H that go outwards, to have them tapered, This in my understanding would prevent a sharp internal edge where the rotor is flexing between all 3 surfaces, to eventually crack, work lose or tear out with considerably usage. Depending also on the G forces being exerted.
been binge watching a lot of the vids here and they're great. love your presentations. surprised that i can follow along quite well. I'm curious as to where you purchased the CF TOW from? keep up the great work, looking forward to new flights!!! Russ from Coral Springs, Florida, USA
Thanks so much for share your Knowledge, I really appreciate it. I would like to build a drone for a small farm in Mexico. Could you please tell us where can I get that foam to make the rotors?. Thanks!
In our next episode we will show you how to build a superior Formula 1 car using only common household items and a few things from your local DIY store.. ;-)
I must say you are one of the most technical people I have encountered, you certainly know your stuff, I thought I was quite knowledgable on RC and drones. Do you work in aerospace engineering?
Hello,i have some ideas id like to share. I am currently working on a Autogyro Rc project,so i am going to try this method soon. I plan to 3d print the wings partially with 100% infill (maybe even in nylon or reinforced pla). Then i plan to re-melt the plastic in my offen to strengthen the parts (there is a interesting method involving burying the prints in salt). The multiple parts are then reconnected ether through mechanical connections,adhesives or "welding" with a low heated soldering soldering iron. The exact design of the blades can be done in Fusion (or similar products),with some clean up work before and after melting. What do you think? Edit: partially 3d printed in 100% infill means that the wing is divided in multiple pieces,but each piece is printed in 100% infill to allow re-melting and allow lager wings. You could also print on a belt printer to do the whole thing in one print,if you got the pocket change
Thank you for the great video. I really love your informative and educational style, and enjoy your thorough discussion. Forgive me for criticizing, but I only mean to be helpful. Might I suggest: less " modern dance" movements with the camera/s. The constant motion, and multiple cameras, are distracting. In addition, the camera movements create a continuous change in sound quality. Both in stereo image, and tone due to proximity effect, and, worst is the large variations of room reverb due to changing mic distances. Please keep it simple, less is more. Perhaps, if the cameras must move instead of zooming in, wearing a lav. mic would at least minimize the crazy sound. Again, thank you very much.
Couldn’t you make a hot wire type jig that could cut a tapered air foil? I can see how it would work in my mind but I’d have a hard time explaining it. If the hot wire was fastened on one end of the jig you could move the wire along a airfoil form. ... never mind.
Hi all of your videos a great I think I have watched and liked most of them by now. Do you mention where you source the carbon fabric from? I am working on a hydrofoil surfboard and need some carbon for the foil. In the past I have used Uscomposites.
I really enjoy your videos! I have a question.. All new jets have winglets for more lift, and efficiency, would i have any effect, if the rotors you make, ended up with some sort of winglets?
You can do that. The trade off is the structural loading of the out of plane mass requires a heavier foil. The manufacturing is also much more difficult.
@@TechIngredients Thank you. But, it brings me on to my next question :-) If winglets are efficient on big jets, would it not work the same way on big helikopters? Is there done any research in that?
Awesome video. I’m going to try this technique to make the wings of a hand launched RC glider. Two questions. Did you consider vacuum bagging the blade while it cured for a nice finish without sanding? Also could you tell us the approximate weight carbon fabric you used? It appears that you might be using thicker materiel than you need but I’m sure you thought it through. Thanks for the whole drone series. Very impressive.
@@TechIngredients awesome thanks for taking the time to respond. Have you had any trouble with the props withstanding long term centripetal force? I’m building a discus launch style glider and the forces are pretty high at launch.
In my experiments with epoxy and styrofoam, I've found the styrofoam can be dissolved by the epoxy somewhat if it isn't sealed with something water-based first. Are you using a special epoxy that does not contain nonpolar solvents? Or is it a special foam that does not dissolve?
How can you calculate the lift from a drone rotor to know it will carry the weight on the unit divided by 4 if using four rotors on the drone. I see Para motor blades and then I see huge military osprey blades. Totally different. Osprey has 1900 ho Engines times 2, but the engineers obviously calculated the shape and size of it with its rpm to give the required lift for the 10,000 lbs plane. Paramotor was obviously calculated for thrust. Do you know of a website that calculates this all for you.
I am not aware of such an online calculator. There are many variables when determining dynamic forces. Notice how many large helicopter rotors sag significantly when grounded. This is due to only their own weight! The centrifugal forces counter the lifting loads which are far greater than the weight of the rotors. Also, long, thin blades are vulnerable to aerodynamic flutter failure. The best method is to actually test the blade to failure.
How does one test a blade to failure? So here’s the equation. 1000 lbs max to include engine airframe and two persons. What length, how many blades per rotor, hp required and rpm would you guesstimate?
You can test a blade to failure by overpowering it untill it comes apart. This is the most comprehensive way of testing all the individual factors like laminations, hub strength, resonance etc especially when something valuable will later be supported by a similar propeller.
Any ideas what the rough rpms of a drone blade are? Also can you confirm a helicopters rotors only spin 250 rpms per min. I cant believe it. Must be in the thousands surely
Any ideas what the rough rpms of a drone blade are? Also can you confirm a helicopters rotors only spin 250 rpms per min. I cant believe it. Must be in the thousands surely
Just for the record, you left a lot of thrust on the table. (design table) An airscrew, which is what this rotor basically is, as no cyclic is applied, needs a varied angle of attack, with the greater angle of attack at the root, decreasing to the tip, to develop best efficiency.
Actually, that would be correct if there was any appreciable forward movement of the rotor disc. But, in the case of these large multi rotors, the most effecient angle of attack is independent of the distance from the axis of rotation.
@@TechIngredients Not sure but I believe you can obtain Air Plane Wing forms over 40" . Balancing may be a issue ? You can buy factory made sets and a hub for under $70.00 ..
Yes. With an added "twist". Because the airplane is traveling at a considerable fraction of the velocity of the propeller blade, but at a right angle to the movement of the blade as it rotates, the propeller is twisted from the root to the tip in order to maintain an optimal angle of attack to ythe "relative" wind it sees.
@@TechIngredients I think I understand. Do you by chance know the calculations off your head to know how much to twist given the dimensions and intentions of the prop, or is it better to get your foam core with the "twist" already in it?
It's actually pretty easy to calculate once you can visualize the geometry. Assume an optimal angle of attack. This will be between 5 to 8 degrees. For a hovering rotor, that angle is maintained from the tip all the way in to the axis of rotation; just like a helicopter rotor. For any given RPM and position along the blade you can calculate a velocity. Compare this velocity to the forward velocity of the entire propeller disk (and the plane it's attached to). Use trig to determine how much steeper the angle of the blade needs to be at several locations along the blade to maintain the optimal angle of attack. The twist will bridge the gaps between those points along a smooth curve.
Don't let the low view count on this dissuade you from these kinds of videos .. this is gold. Pure gold.
Yeah I’m wondering how they don’t have Atleast 250K per video! This is what I needed when I was a teenager. I’m 26 and I’m excited to try some of this as I build a workshop
trueh!! just subscribed!
I know this is an older video, but for the carbon fiber material, if you get really close and look down the length of the carbon fiber, you can actually grab one or two of the strands and pull them out. This leaves you a perfect line down which to cut with your shears, and it aids, a bit anyway, in avoiding some of the unraveling issues. Cellophane tape works as well, however.
Where you been all my life... you are easy to learn from. :) thanks a bunch I've been flying carbon fiber blades for over ten years and I learned more about my blades in five minutes with you video..
i keep rewatching your videos and absorb many different details. well done!
This is knowledge transfer at the best level - Thank you !
great stuff. laminated (using epoxy) craft paper then wrapped around a mandrel, cure then notch works in place of the custom aluminum cutting tool. I use these for cutting holes in foam.
You go into too much detail. In a 100% awesome way! I love your videos. I sometimes find my attention drifting away when you're talking about something I know about, but then I get brought right back in because you explain in so much detail that I don't think anyone has all of what you say in their knowledge-bank. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks! It is always a balance between too much information and not enough depending on who's watching and what they're interested in. I could go into significantly more detail believe it or not, but without that background it wouldn't be possible to select the most useful info or defend a decision to do something when questioned about it.
Your video when you were talking about making your own propellers vs buying them you were talking about the profile of the wing and how it's best to have an asymmetrical profile so that there aren't opposing forces. I was about to google why we don't use flat blades, I know the basics, but then you went right into explaining how house fans, ceiling fans most notably use flat blades and are inefficient because they are just vectoring the air. That was great!
Great detail in the explanations. Not too much, not too little.
Absolutely awesome content! CZcams needs more of people like you! You really dig into details and that's what I love to watch. Definitely subscribing.
Thank you, that really helps us!
You are an excellent instructor! The thoroughness and cadence of you presentations are quite enjoyable. In my professional life I worked with carbon fiber in prosthetics and orthotics. You may find pulling a vacuum on the lamination may improve uniformity in thickness, reduction in weight, and finish. All the best!
Thanks!
I've done a lot of vacuum bagging, but in this instance the extremely light and flexible core, bends and twists as the laminate and the plastic tightens with the vacuum. After several attempts, we just did it the old fashioned way.
Amazing video. I love carbon fiber, and I learned something. Thanks
Thank you for explaining about problems i did not even know existed.
thank you for the deep insight in your wast knowledge ! I learned a lot !
Only half way through and I am quite impressed with the quality of the content in this video. Subscribed. Over time I will go through some of your other videos on topics that I am interested in.
Thank you!
Instead of the quartz micro-beads, I used to add the leftover foam dust (occasionally divinycell dust too) from shaping the foam core of surfing / windsurfing boards. Performed really well.
Good idea and the price is right as well!
Two more types related to carbon fiber aside from un-directional (no weave) or weaved: standard modulus fiber, intermediate modulus fiber & ultra high modulus fiber and in these 3 sub-types are sub category: spread tow (the individual fibers are woven) and regular (groups are weaved instead of individual).
Very interesting video, how simple you make it to be, great job
Thank you so much for the high quality of your video, a miss only one thing in general: some theory for a better understanding
thanks for the super cool video. You did well going it to things I needed to now with the mic beads
extremely good info./suggestion about cutting the fiber (along with everything else you said); when ever I've worked with fiber, I always got aggravating strings everywhere and had to do a lot of extra sanding. This info. is not just good for prop./rotor fabricating, but with any fiber construction.
Please add in the description from where you bought the carbon fabric and what weight of this fabric.
Great video! Thank you
great video , thanks
suggestion
Now I'm no expert but I do question things when I see it,
Some people will see how you build this type of a rotor,
And they may think they can do the same with a bigger rotor for possibly a helicopter, or a drone type for personal lifting of packages or even human lifts.?
Now where you put that epoxy into hold the plates that tie them together,
I myself would have tried to make a H plug with the lands of the H that go outwards, to have them tapered,
This in my understanding would prevent a sharp internal edge where the rotor is flexing between all 3 surfaces, to eventually crack, work lose or tear out with considerably usage.
Depending also on the G forces being exerted.
Great video. thanks very much. Is there a way to order the material in US/Canada like the carbon fiber, epoxy and the bubble filler :) ?
been binge watching a lot of the vids here and they're great. love your presentations. surprised that i can follow along quite well. I'm curious as to where you purchased the CF TOW from?
keep up the great work, looking forward to new flights!!!
Russ from Coral Springs, Florida, USA
Thanks so much for share your Knowledge, I really appreciate it. I would like to build a drone for a small farm in Mexico. Could you please tell us where can I get that foam to make the rotors?. Thanks!
Sure.
Sorry to report that the company we used and linked to went out of business last year.
Pulling strands out where you want to cut gives you a line to follow and reduces unraveling.
Good point.
In our next episode we will show you how to build a superior Formula 1 car using only common household items and a few things from your local DIY store.. ;-)
I must say you are one of the most technical people I have encountered, you certainly know your stuff, I thought I was quite knowledgable on RC and drones. Do you work in aerospace engineering?
Thanks! No I don't. You might want to check out some of the laser videos as well.
You probably sniff a lot of resin. :D Awesome workshop you have there.
Leading Edge DIY ! Did you say squeal’a ? Is that a pig wing ?
Hello,i have some ideas id like to share. I am currently working on a Autogyro Rc project,so i am going to try this method soon.
I plan to 3d print the wings partially with 100% infill (maybe even in nylon or reinforced pla). Then i plan to re-melt the plastic in my offen to strengthen the parts (there is a interesting method involving burying the prints in salt). The multiple parts are then reconnected ether through mechanical connections,adhesives or "welding" with a low heated soldering soldering iron. The exact design of the blades can be done in Fusion (or similar products),with some clean up work before and after melting.
What do you think?
Edit: partially 3d printed in 100% infill means that the wing is divided in multiple pieces,but each piece is printed in 100% infill to allow re-melting and allow lager wings. You could also print on a belt printer to do the whole thing in one print,if you got the pocket change
Thank you for the great video. I really love your informative and educational style, and enjoy your thorough discussion. Forgive me for criticizing, but I only mean to be helpful. Might I suggest: less " modern dance" movements with the camera/s. The constant motion, and multiple cameras, are distracting. In addition, the camera movements create a continuous change in sound quality. Both in stereo image, and tone due to proximity effect, and, worst is the large variations of room reverb due to changing mic distances. Please keep it simple, less is more. Perhaps, if the cameras must move instead of zooming in, wearing a lav. mic would at least minimize the crazy sound. Again, thank you very much.
Have you sent this along to Foam Flyers? I'm sure they'd be really interested to see the amazing stuff you're building on top of their product.
you could have bedded some dowels into the epoxy plug!
Couldn’t you make a hot wire type jig that could cut a tapered air foil? I can see how it would work in my mind but I’d have a hard time explaining it. If the hot wire was fastened on one end of the jig you could move the wire along a airfoil form. ... never mind.
These re pretty common. They require some skill to get a good cut.
This video is super gold ! I could not find the URL of the "Foam Flyers " or " Flying foams ". Could you give me some hints to find them , Sir ?
Thanks.
Sadly, they went out of business last year.
Thank you so much for your information, Sir ! So sad !!!
If you had four of those propellers (a quadcopter), how much weight could those large of props lift?
Hi all of your videos a great I think I have watched and liked most of them by now. Do you mention where you source the carbon fabric from?
I am working on a hydrofoil surfboard and need some carbon for the foil. In the past I have used Uscomposites.
Try ACP Composites and Composit Envisions.
@@TechIngredients awesome, will do! Do you have any plans to do a hydrofoil? It seems like that would be in your wheel house
I really enjoy your videos! I have a question.. All new jets have winglets for more lift, and efficiency, would i have any effect, if the rotors you make, ended up with some sort of winglets?
You can do that. The trade off is the structural loading of the out of plane mass requires a heavier foil. The manufacturing is also much more difficult.
@@TechIngredients Thank you. But, it brings me on to my next question :-) If winglets are efficient on big jets, would it not work the same way on big helikopters? Is there done any research in that?
They already exist and have the added benefit of reducing rotor noise.
Awesome video. I’m going to try this technique to make the wings of a hand launched RC glider. Two questions. Did you consider vacuum bagging the blade while it cured for a nice finish without sanding? Also could you tell us the approximate weight carbon fabric you used? It appears that you might be using thicker materiel than you need but I’m sure you thought it through. Thanks for the whole drone series. Very impressive.
These cores are too flexible to retain their shoes as the plastic tightens down on them. They tend to twist or bend. 1.8 oz/yard spread tow fabric.
@@TechIngredients awesome thanks for taking the time to respond. Have you had any trouble with the props withstanding long term centripetal force? I’m building a discus launch style glider and the forces are pretty high at launch.
awesome
Did you use to work at Los Alamos?
Why not use end grain balsa here to help keep the weight down?
The company that provided these CNC cores, only cuts them out of foam.
In my experiments with epoxy and styrofoam, I've found the styrofoam can be dissolved by the epoxy somewhat if it isn't sealed with something water-based first. Are you using a special epoxy that does not contain nonpolar solvents? Or is it a special foam that does not dissolve?
Epoxy won't disolve styrofoam, but polyester will.
@@TechIngredients I'll be darned, what I thought was epoxy in my fiberglass resin kit is polyester! I'll look out for that next time, thanks!
Is there a select all videos, thumbs up button in youtube?
Sorry, no.
But, thanks!
Hi, How do you clean your tools, eg the syringe and needle of epoxy or are they sacrificial?
They're sacrificial.
These videos ( rotor build etc) is not visible in your video list on the page wich will explain the view amount, found it by accident
Good point, we'll add these.
Hello, you can add subtitles, because I can not translate.
Thanks and Regards
Rad!
Wouldn’t it be good to make the hard point from a piece of hobby plywood?
Not really. The epoxy naturally fills voids and irregularities as well as conforming to the surfaces and the effort is minimal.
respect
How can you calculate the lift from a drone rotor to know it will carry the weight on the unit divided by 4 if using four rotors on the drone. I see Para motor blades and then I see huge military osprey blades. Totally different. Osprey has 1900 ho Engines times 2, but the engineers obviously calculated the shape and size of it with its rpm to give the required lift for the 10,000 lbs plane. Paramotor was obviously calculated for thrust. Do you know of a website that calculates this all for you.
I am not aware of such an online calculator. There are many variables when determining dynamic forces. Notice how many large helicopter rotors sag significantly when grounded. This is due to only their own weight! The centrifugal forces counter the lifting loads which are far greater than the weight of the rotors. Also, long, thin blades are vulnerable to aerodynamic flutter failure.
The best method is to actually test the blade to failure.
How does one test a blade to failure? So here’s the equation. 1000 lbs max to include engine airframe and two persons. What length, how many blades per rotor, hp required and rpm would you guesstimate?
You can test a blade to failure by overpowering it untill it comes apart. This is the most comprehensive way of testing all the individual factors like laminations, hub strength, resonance etc especially when something valuable will later be supported by a similar propeller.
Any ideas what the rough rpms of a drone blade are? Also can you confirm a helicopters rotors only spin 250 rpms per min. I cant believe it. Must be in the thousands surely
Any ideas what the rough rpms of a drone blade are? Also can you confirm a helicopters rotors only spin 250 rpms per min. I cant believe it. Must be in the thousands surely
Just for the record, you left a lot of thrust on the table. (design table) An airscrew, which is what this rotor basically is, as no cyclic is applied, needs a varied angle of attack, with the greater angle of attack at the root, decreasing to the tip, to develop best efficiency.
Actually, that would be correct if there was any appreciable forward movement of the rotor disc. But, in the case of these large multi rotors, the most effecient angle of attack is independent of the distance from the axis of rotation.
I see your point, well made. Thank you.
carbon fiber isn't quite strong in all directions. and when you blend the cloth like that you have "quasi-isotropic" properties.
Would these be good for wind generator blades
Sure, but weight is less of an issue in that case and you could save money going with fiberglass and denser, more robust foam.
LOL, Thinking Wind Turbine Blades here.
That's a good idea.
@@TechIngredients Not sure but I believe you can obtain Air Plane Wing forms over 40" . Balancing may be a issue ? You can buy factory made sets and a hub for under $70.00 ..
"...alright, already, we'll all float on..."
Sir what is the design parameter for propeller designing
Does this information apply to airplane props as well?
Yes. With an added "twist". Because the airplane is traveling at a considerable fraction of the velocity of the propeller blade, but at a right angle to the movement of the blade as it rotates, the propeller is twisted from the root to the tip in order to maintain an optimal angle of attack to ythe "relative" wind it sees.
@@TechIngredients I think I understand. Do you by chance know the calculations off your head to know how much to twist given the dimensions and intentions of the prop, or is it better to get your foam core with the "twist" already in it?
It's actually pretty easy to calculate once you can visualize the geometry. Assume an optimal angle of attack. This will be between 5 to 8 degrees. For a hovering rotor, that angle is maintained from the tip all the way in to the axis of rotation; just like a helicopter rotor. For any given RPM and position along the blade you can calculate a velocity. Compare this velocity to the forward velocity of the entire propeller disk (and the plane it's attached to). Use trig to determine how much steeper the angle of the blade needs to be at several locations along the blade to maintain the optimal angle of attack. The twist will bridge the gaps between those points along a smooth curve.
@@TechIngredients This should be what I need! Thanks a lot for your help!
I sure hope that needle isn't 'hypodermic', being completely dull as it is! lol
So....i could buy four toy foam glider planes from amazon and wrap the wings with fiberglass.
You could.
What 3D printers and software do you use? Here is yet another idea for a review you might like to do. Ramjet555 -at-Gmail