The REAL Number of Timelines in MLP
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2023
- How many timelines are in MLP? Is there a multiverse in My Little Pony? Did Starlight Glimmer kill anyone when she changed the past?
Black Moonlight and I's World Building Podcast: / @worldexplorersworldbu... Well, I'm here to set the record straight and explain just how time travel works in Equestria!
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The King Sombra future timeline is fascinating, isn't it? That one and the Queen Chrysalis futures are my personal favorites. :) - Krátké a kreslené filmy
At first I denied this theory...but it makes more sense when you realize we never saw another Twilight Sparkle or Starlight Glimmer
By that logic, it makes me wonder; are there any alternate universes where Twilight wasn't able to--lack of a better term--save the day?
you're right this is the best way to explain it.
Not saying the theory is not possible but we do see another starlight and twilight in those timelines.We see past starlight when she shows twilight and past twilight when it shows her not seeing the rainboom.
The starlight we can understand as it might be before the rainboom but that filly twilight ended up somewhere and twilights own encounter with time travel shows that two of the same pony can interact and be in the same time without issue.
Now i have a theory about what could have happend if twilight failed but it requires some explanation of what could be going on here. firstly twilight and spike and starlight along with the table became independent of the world once the spell was cast meaning no matter what they did in the past nothing would be done to them (no dying if they kill their other selfs). Secondly starlight could not use this spell on her own so she needed the table to power it completly, this means the table has its own power sorce. Lastly is that we know that in some of the timelines the tree is absolutly dead and destroyed so the table even if it could take energy from the other trees has a limit on the jumps. With all that info we can conclude that twilight would have eventualy gotten stuck in the other timeline if the fight went on too long and the table might have even been holding the way home open.
There is also the whole thing of "if starlight and twilight embracing brings them back to their timeline does that mean they were always in their own past?" and yes that does mean that
Twilight, Starlight, and Spike(Possibly) exist in the altered timelines, just elsewhere. Starlight would stay in her old village with out the mane 6's interference until it gets invaded or caught in crossfire. Twilight failing her exam, led her to a regular school and since she didn't become Celestia's pupil, she wouldn't have gone to Ponyville. Spike would either never be born or would have hatched some other way such as another pony.
Yea
@@glitchyfox8706yea
The problem is that the terms "alternate timelines" and "multiverse" aren't universally interchangeable. While the alternate timelines that Starlight created may not be separate worlds themselves, alternate universes absolutely do exist within the boundaries of the show. Even if you disregard the comics and what they bring to the table, the EQG world is already established canon. There is a multiverse out there, but still only one timeline.
this 👍 ^^^^^^
I object.
"Alternate timelines" are not the same thing as "parallel timelines".
MLP has multiple alternate timelines, but each timeline overwrites the previous one rather than existing parallel to it. Eventually all alternate timelines were destroyed and the original timeline was restored, but the alternate timelines did exist within the show.
That makes me wonder though.
The multiverse is real to an extent because of Equestria Girls.
It is established that it is a real world within the MLP Universe
It was just the idea of a fanfic, but it might be possible the universe we see is the main/original one(though it seems impossible to say except it looks like the other universes we see have the same individuals from this one).
it exist because in the episode with tree hugger discord wants to send her to another dimension (if i remember correctly)
Honestly thought that you were going to say that the real reason that people want to believe that Starlight created a multiverse is because it creates an easy explanation to how G5 is just an alternate universe at the end, lol.
But in all seriousness, there’s another reason why people would think that Starlight’s time travel created a multiverse. It’s because, in quantum physics, that’s our closest answer to what would happen if we theoretically time traveled. You are right that the past cannot be changed, but that also means any altercation that would be made similar to what Starlight did would have to create another dimension (I’m sure someone smarter than me can better explain this to you). It’s why the directors of Endgame actually counseled with quantum physicists when figuring out how time travel works. So people are likely going for the most scientific explanation of how time travel works in MLP.
Which doesn’t really matter, given that MLP is 1) a show for 5-10 year olds, who’s most advanced math skills are divide and times, 2) set in a universe where the power of simple companionship is enough to create rainbows of mass destruction. I don’t think we should expect PHD level science here.
G5 might as well BE a AU, it barely related to G4 despite th hornsheoed in mane six refernces lol
Also, as someone else mentioned, it's magical time travel which is likely different than science time travel. To go back to Endgame for a second, the MCU even has both of those and they are different. So. Yeah.
Considering magic being gone from the world, it seemed like it could've been an alternate timeline where Cozy successfully removed all magic, where the Mane 6 eventually get back and destroy her reputation(while she could be smart about it, 6 different accounts of trickery would at least cast suspicion, especially as the teachers of the school and their previous history).
The crystals could then be an attempt to return magic, but with something like magic gone, society at the large scale would collapse and hence, magic-less technology would replace it as much as possible and provide the seperation seen.
Honestly, Hasbro should make an anthology series with unique “What If?”esque episodes focusing on how different timelines played out in the alternate timelines created by Starlight & Twilight time traveling.
I believe that timelines have a form of "durability." Some universes have fragile timelines where changing the past or different decisions made splits the timeline into different realities while others have timelines that are so sturdy, changing just one thing in the past has drastic effects on the future.
Exactly this
Butterfly effect.
@enolaholmesasoue If a timeline is fragile enough, the Butterfly Effect can and/or will result in all kinds of outcomes at once.
@@WhiteFireTheDragon makes sense. I kinda didn't understand what you said in the original comment. What do you mean by "fragile" timeline?
@@raatkikhoobsurti Like I said; timelines that split into multiple different futures instead of one singular one.
To this day the time travel in this episode always confuses me. Why were Twilight and Spike unaffected by history being altered when they should be? Why did the salves disappear? Does the timeline keep resetting itself? Is that why we don't see the other moments they travel back simultaneously? What did Starlight do after she changed each timeline? Did she just sit around until she gets dragged back when Twilight activates the spell?
This is just a thought of mine, but I think the cutie map had something to do with it. Let me explain, when starlight activated the time map, she didn’t expect the cutie map to be connected either, the map acted as a form of return pad, so to speak. Whenever the spell was used, the map also had a feature, the reason why there was no time displacement, was cause the map made sure there was none. Both the map and spell are connected, which is why Twilight and Spike returned to the beginning.
Now when Starlight was about to destroy the map, the timezone they were in, started to shake, basically Starlight was destroying not only the spell, but the map too and without the map, all of time would’ve changed. In short it may not be a multiverse, but at the same time, in a way, it is. It’s multiple time universes, with multiple outcomes, the end was either all of time imploding in on itself, or the map showing Starlight’s future
That’s just my thought though
@@reveredmadagascar6778 this is true, but they were also a fixated point in time at that point. It’s kind of a little bit of a Wibbly, wobbly shoe string sort of deal, because they are there in yet they’re not there.
Ah, sounds like Schrödinger’s cat@@Beyondthe5thPanel
@@reveredmadagascar6778 that’s a good way of putting it. If you try to think linearly, it’s going to drive you nuts. But when you learn to think outside the box, funny enough, you start to realize there are so many different possibilities in the realm of opening a whole new Pandora’s box of so many different realities, so the person, or in this case twilight gets to experience so many different potential realities, but she, Starlight and spike are all base points. They have set so many different possibilities into motion, so, even though it seems as though they have reset, each time they go back, they really haven’t because they’re just creating a whole new base of existence from that set point period. Hence they have to figure out a way to get back to their initial time. And that is by going through what got them there in the first place. The fact that they have existed in that same point in time over and over and over again wins itself to the fact that there are different variations of even themselves, despite having the exact same memories of what they’ve gone through before.
In this case the cutie map and time spell are the catalyst, Starlight used the spell, but was unaware of the map’s involvement. The map, for twilight showed what the future ‘could be’ while the map at the same time, does damage control. However when Starlight was going to destroy the spell, the world started to shake, indicating the map was going to be destroyed.
The map was controlling both the butterfly affect and timeline, in hope to prevent total collapse. When starlight was going to destroy the spell however, the map’s destruction would result in a total collapse of the timeline.
The map though played Starlight, showing her a possible future, while at the same time showing her the past. Example the barren wasteland, the map showed what was before and after. Beginning and end.@@Beyondthe5thPanel
Exactly! Plus, Twilight brings up how Starlight used the same time traveling spell as Star Swirl’s from It’s About Time for her plan, but just made it go further back in time.
As someone who's a long-standing aficionado of time-travel and multiple timelines in entertainment media, I agree with you entirely. What's happening is that every time Twilight and Starlight go back to the beginning to fight over the timeline, they are resetting/changing it from that point forward. There is no branch-off.
Compare with Back to the Future, where the series showed the timeline COULD branch off, but would also re-connect and become the same timeline if circumstances matched closely enough. But had Marty been erased because of the timeline being reset far BACK enough, THAT resulting timeline would not have been a branch at all but simply the same one - albeit without Marty or anything he ever did.
Thank you! This is pretty much how I always saw things in the episode and never really understood why people thought there was a multiverse. Glad you were finally able to clear all this up.
same
same
Same
You guys do know dragon ball z did the Multiverse thing years before end game right I'm just asking because I never watch end game
Back to the future did stay relevant to original theories. Things changed as soon as Marty arrived in 1955. Twin Pines mall became lone pine mall after Marty killed a pine tree that the farmer was trying to breed. That's just one example
SO I'M NOT CRAZY! Sorry, it's just every time I've watched that movie my mom doesn't realize the name changed.
@@AstralArbourSys no you are not going insane. What you do in the past affects everything. Your own presence in the past makes changes
I don't fully disagree with this theory, but what i dont get is if theres only one timeline then how can the adult twilight exist after starlight changes the past? with multiverse it makes sense cuz her world still exist she just cant access it. But here, as soon as starlight changes the past, neither should exist (which would be a paradox but lets overlook that for now) , they even showed twilight failing to get her cutiemark and spike not being born, so how can they still be there and not even show signs of starting to fade away. Geniune question
Exactly. This breaks the theory. As soon as the original time line is destroyed, so should Twilight be. Unless you want to credit her being ethereal and godlike since she’s and alicorn and therefore isn’t affected. But even then, spike should be affected too
True just as was thinking alicirn twilight and spike should not exist if it is one timeline it just doesn't make sense to me
@@lololghi7909It might've been tied to the spell scroll itself as a safety measure.
Neither should the map in that case.
I think the map protected them, and that time itself or the elements kept track of how things were *supposed* to be. That's why they both glowed in the changeling timeline.
If it was separate and she was simply locked out of her timeline, the glowing thing wouldn't make sense because she wouldn't necessarily be more true than the other timeline - in fact she'd be more out of place.
But the fact she and spike glow shows they are the true timeline with how things should be. They were completely separate from the new timeline, existing outside of time itself - this is also the only way Starlight could still exist to change it in the first place, otherwise there'd be a paradox.
Some force obviously realizes something's wrong. That's why the map stays and why Twilight and Spike glow. I think everything that was connected to the spell, and thus brought outside of the timeline by it, remain unaffected when it was overwritten.
Well, I kinda agree, but in the comics (which have been proven to be canon) Luna and Discord travel through an infinite hallway of dreams where all those infinite dreams and choices are all infinite alternate timelines, and the fact that the comics do confirm that Equestria's Multiverse is indeed, infinite.
It's one aspect they could address in G5 if they'd want to make it an alternate universe given that the world seems to always go bad if the Mane 6 aren't together(which might explain Opaline's contribution to the fall of a great civilization if it wasn't already as if Discord's comments can be considered as the truth, the problems only got worse with the Mane 6 slowly dwindling, though it does make me wonder if they'll use the limbo spell again as a way to keep some other characters of the past).
The thing everyone forgets is that time travel is scientific or natural means of gaining access to time, where as in My Little Pony it was really "CHRONOMANCY" which is the magical manipulation of time.
The theory does have evidence, but then again, we need to remember that Starswirl is the only example of a Unicorn wanting to travel into the past. And as far as we know, Twilight and Starlight are the only other ones to actually do anything with the Time Spell in the modern day. So, I wouldn't go as far as call them experts. Plus, the first time we see the Time Spell be used is more of case where we are witnessing a Timeloop rather than something being outright changed.
YES. i agree completely. The map literally destroys the time spell, almost like it helped guide starlight's lesson 😊
(Perfectly plausible, the map seems to have some knowledge of the future when it comes to friendship, considering all those missions with specific casting XD
I also think people want there to be a multiverse because they don’t want the other characters from other timelines to die
And the other timelines are really interesting
To see them straight up never exist is really sad
Agreed. They are all really interesting, and make for fantastic starting points for fanfictions! But, like I said, I am not the bearer of what is or isn't more interesting, only the bearer of information ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't think it would kill them. They just become the version from the true timeline.
Hey my guy even though this is definitely the Right theory, that doesn't mean the multiverse doesn't exist
@@SonarTheBat it would kill some of them
Many fillies wouldn’t even exist in the original timeline under different circumstances
And the ponies from these timelines are essentially different
Merging them back with the original timelines version killed of all the memories, the things they have done and the accomplishments they might have gor
@@SonarTheBat living in a peaceful world is not the same to living in a war, a world conquered by insect or a world of eternal night
I always understood it like that. Like Starlight changing the past .. AND BY EXTENSION the future and every time they go back... It changes.
As someone in his 3rd out of 4 literature courses (that are mandatory for everyone) where all we do is do literary analysis, this is valid. The Zecora argument alone is enough because it has her lines AND the animation of the river's flow. Writers (at least good ones) don't just randomly put things without thought
Stopping the kids from saying first, thank me later
Thank you lord and savior
Last 🙃
I didn't say that word
You can't touch me
Thanks Nika! I love you for this! :D
o7
Fifth
So, there is a multiverse, but not because of a branching timeline. It's the horseshoe mirror that connects the multiverse together, not the flow of time, as the Equestria Girls series and the comics have demonstrated.
it's nice someone explains this up right because with the multiple dimentions in comics and eqg it can get confusing but I don't think endgame is the whole reason people tend to see it in the multiverse way, endgame came out way later than season 5 and also DragonballZ did the multiverse thing in TV with Marvel and Dc with their comics and some shows, so its mostly those three that are at fault.
It's also more interesting to people to see it that way because of the potential "what if's"
The episode that introduced time travel made the events fixed points because it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Although there may be a lot of character based soft evidence, I believe there is one much more 'physical' case of hard evidence which refutes the whole thing and implies the ponies don't know what they're talking about:
When starlight first uses the spell to time travel, twilight stays in the original timeline. Even after twilight joins her, we see pinkie pie continuing to act as if the ponies disappeared.
If this truly was one timeline, the universe would've instantly altered itself in that moment. The fact that starlight could affect the past without affecting the present, very strongly implies that the past she went to is a different past from the past of the universe we saw. That only works if its a multiverse/multiple timelines thing.
Hypothetically, the timeline may have forked and came back together (As that's the only way the 'lingering old timeline' would be unaffected by starlights travel), but this is convoluted and so occams razor says otherwise (I believe it is applicable here as well, since if the timeline did fork and come back together, that would still imply multiple timelines could co-exist - and over a long timespan at that (Rainboom to present), so it wouldn't make sense to assume they'd just merge back together or delete themselves unless proven otherwise with hard evidence rather than soft evidence. (And we don't have any. Arguably maybe the flash of light on the screen a few times that twilight travels, but this could easily just be a quicker transition for brevity sake. Furthermore, if multiple timelines can co-exist over a long timespan (Rainboom to present), whose to say they can't co-exist over an infinite timespan? This at the very least implies that a timeline multiverse is possible.)
Furthermore, if we propose that the timeline didn't switch until the camera switched (Which again: convoluted, occams razor), this would imply that starlight just straight up didn't exist for a bit, which is kind of weird, although stranger things have happened on the show.
If you have any counterpoints, I'm open to hearing them.
Time is a river. Changes take time to propagate, you can see that in Zecora's demonstration.
How can a change take time to propogate if that change is within time itself? This implies a 'super-time' within which the timeline exists inside, and there's no reason to assume such a super-time would not have multiple timelines within it.
I will concede however that this would allow this to be one continuous timeline, and potentially explain EQG as well. The explanation is logically self-consistent, and has some hard evidence backing it up (EQG existing, the nature of the time travel as we've seen it)
However it doesn't prove any other explanations wrong, leaving it to a coin toss which is correct.
@@deltainfinium869 Also Starlight specifically mentioned that she always auto-arrives *before* the time scroll. If Twilight was erased before she used it, that would create paradox.
@@VcSaJen It would've. Yet we see pinkie pie present after twilight travels in the first scene. This indicates to me that the original timeline co-exists with the timeline which twilight/starlight visited (Even after twilight leaves). Thus it doesn't get deleted. At least 2 timelines have co-existed here.
Also, the fact that it would create a paradox is a moot point if it does create alternate timelines, as it isn't the original past which gets changed, so everything there still happens.
@@deltainfinium869Nothing really based on the show anyways, but the power of the tree/harmony might've been holding the universe together while creating a branch to seperate itself from any direct effects(as it kind of just feels random if the spell or harmony magic didn't do anything, considering it'd be a random causality feat for Twilight and potentially the rest of the main cast otherwise, whereas the other two at least seem more probable considering Starswirl as a spellcaster as well as the common problems of time travel or the undefined limit to harmony magic).
Only really potentially attribute to the tree given another comic where Rainbow does a rainboom that sends the Mane 6 back to themselves after the rainboom, concluding with them meeting at a young age and Celestia using magic to supress those memories until they went back, where the most impact is a strange new memory of that event.
if you want a good time travel template, watch The Flash. It explains it really well imo. That's my go-too when time travel comes up as a topic of discussion
The series or movie?
Because if you're talking about the show, you have a point.
If you were talking about the movie... oi vey
The Flash (TV live-action show) uses the system that's no one else uses, and I can see why.
Basically, when you travel back in time to kill your grandpa, you're not erased immediately. You can walk just fine, even return to "your" future and back. The moment you kill your grandpa, you're erased, in that moment. Not retroactive. Meaning your past self is not erased and still hanging out. Your timeline becomes "doomed" timeline, where only your past self can travel. Time travelers from "new" timeline can still visit your past self and see how you're traveling to future that never happened and back.
Well I still prefer Many-worlds interpretation of time travel where paradoxes and disruption events create new timeline.
Awesome video as always Star Strike!
Thank you!
Hmmm, that’s pretty fascinating.
And I thought it was supposed to be a explanation of if it’s possible, G5 is a Parallel universe😅.
Does at least make me reconsider about my Theorie from last year.
But it’s not like I already did
You forgot Into The Spiderverse which also has applied different look on multiple timelines.
I don't think into the spiderverse showed the concept of different timelines, more like the concept of the multiverse
@@freeexcitin6933 yeah spiderverse uses multiverses
The only timeline i needed is a universe with bears 🐻 🐴
Let's be honest everyone does as long as they are cute bears 🐻
Like care bears❤
I think a lot of people prefer to think of it as the multiverse option because it is one of the two forms of time travel (to the past) that don't create paradoxes. The other being the "Groundhog day" time loop (which MLP also did, of course). Any other option will fundamentally break the logic of your story. But a lot of stories do that anyway because it's fun. Tale Foundry recently made a video about that.
I had this in mind a long time ago! Thanks for making the video :D
still enjoy your videos uwu, its what i hit that bell for
and the moment you end the video with "hold your sanity" the song "insane" pop up XD lmao
cant wait for the next one! (i know, late with reply, i watch first and let my brain think of something to comment, yes yes)
I've nere seen End Game, my knowlage of time travel was from Back to the Future movies and as you said in the video how time travel was explained in End Game the same way it was explained in BttF
Alt time lines are caused not by medaling in the past but by the choices we make in life all time travel dose is effect those choices even if something in the past changes its still up to those present in the past the make the choice to continue as normal or take a different path.
Time travel does cause new timelines, those timelines are typically unstable though.
Meddling actions and choices affect time travel when one’s not careful, example, in the movie “A sound of Thunder” explains a group of time tourists going back to the prehistoric age and hunting a T-Rex. Every trip they go, they must stay on a linear path, hunting the dinosaur, until one guy medals and chooses to walk off the path, in doing so steps on a butterfly, altering the future and destabilizing it in the process.
This reminds me of a time travel narative I came up with awhile back its an artifact given to the protagenist by an old man who says you can't change the past but you can take it with you.
The progagenist uses it to go back in time to change something but upon returning to the present nothings changed and let me explain why.
The artifact has a fail safe to keep the flow of time going as normal and it dose this by eraseing the time the user spent in the past makeing that amount of time start all over but with out the traveller there so events play out as normal and unchanged.@@reveredmadagascar6778
I never understood how there could be different timeines. Like Zecora did with the stream, it didn't turned into two streams it just changed the direction. It's nice someone finally makes a video about it.
I think part of it is theories.
Like for example if you make a decision based on a coin flip, there is an idea of an alternate timeline in which you flipped the opposite, and for every choice make, an alternate timeline in which you make the opposite choice, and each new choice branches out to new paths.
I do like Zecora’s version here though.
This time travel seems to work on the "back to the future" mindset.
Pretty much
No way, I actually remember those three movies! 😊❤❤❤❤❤
@@Star_Strike I disagree with the theory because think about it starlight changed the past yet wasn’t affected by it. She shouldn’t exist if it was on one main timeline because when she time travelled in the first place that was already a change in the timeline. sure of the rainbow would’ve happened and the events that happened would be the exact same, but just being there, it was already a change into timeline they were free extra spectators this means that if it wasn’t a Multiverse
Then starlight, Twilight and spike would only return to another timeline where everything is the exact same but still a different timeline which would be really depressing because then chrysalis and all of the other villains will take over the first Questria that we all know
And that’s a bit too depressing
For the riders to put in
So yeah, if your theory is correct then
My Little Pony friendship is depressing
And here I thought Starlight had a kill count in the millions, potentially billions.
I like your still making MLP G4 and franchise content I’m new to your channel keep up with the good work.
this made me remember of the anime called "Date a Live". I dont want to spoil too much but basically in the season 3 finale ,the time travel happends but its not the alternative universe thing but its about changing the past cause we literally get to witness why the future suddenly changed. I recommend this anime btw ,its has some fanservice but if you close eyes on that thing then its a pretty interesting and fascinating story which lead me to see some things from the other point of view (this anime genre is like a magical girl mixed with harem thingy)
DragonTrainer201 video on alternative timelines is still the best explanation for how each timeline came to be, he perfectly explains how each Starlight action lead from one thing to another.
What does it have to do with the video? Nothing, I just wanted to mention it 😅.
Also your video definitely seems to be most likely canon explanation of the episode because if the episode was about multi universe travel, then that would mean, the original timeline Twilight came from is no more and that would be grim 😅
To be honest it's like other multiverse's of Mlp. "They travel through time" they traveled through a multiverse. But i agree with you.
But as Starlight not creating a universe. These other universe knew something was wrong which was Zecora. But yeah i agree!
I really enjoyed this video. The way it was explained, it was really good and sensible.
Thank you so much! I'm glad to hear that!
When first watching the series, I always assumed it was a linear timeline like the one you described. I was very confused when I saw people mention multiple timelines 😅
I didn’t watch avengers before when I watched that episode and I still assumed it was an alternate timeline. And I still follow that theory because my brain refuses to process this video (AuDHD)
technically, there is a multiverse. exhibit A, the universe with the characters roles completely reversed. aka, all the villains are good and all the heroes are bad. exhibit B, the power ponies episode where they went into a comic book. could be another universe. Exhibit C, the equestria girls universe. the key here is that these are not alternate time lines, but alternate universes. which means, there is a multiverse
Since this is the case, then why do starlight, twilight, and spike never run into themselves? Does their universe erase them from being there in the first place, so, starlight can alter the future again? Shouldn't they see themselves there from them being there before?
I think it should work somewhat like how the multiverse presente in Into the Spiderverse and Across the Spiderverse shows it. Several universes, but one single timeline. Proof: every character that came back aged equally, some universes were simply ahead or behind. Spider noir being in the 30s or Spiderman 2099 being in the late 2090s. I think that yes, it's one timeline, but multiple universes that ALREADY existed and mirrored what we saw when Starlight altered time, in short: they are not meant to be because that's not THEIR destiny in THAT universe, but they are meant to be like that in another universe that still follows the timeline.
I'm kinda surprised you didn't bring up Back To The Future II where Doc states that Jennifer and Einstine would automatically revert to the standard time after they got the alminac from past Biff.
One thing that you(and practically everyone that ever does a time travel scenario) are overlooking is the fact that if Starlight actually Did succeed in stopping the Mane 6 from ever becoming friends, then she never would have met them, they never would have defeated her, and she never would have had a reason to go back in time in the first place, so she never would have used a time travel spell to begin with and her plan would have been doomed to fail from the start, which meant the whole time travel adventure never would have happened and Starlight would have been stuck in the present without anything happening at all, but since she Did travel back in and stop the Mane 6 from becoming friends, that can only mean that she didn't simply leave her rightful time Period, she left her own time Line, meaning that the time line she left was still perfectly in tact, she along with Twilight & Spike simply lost Access to their rightful timeline due to a Paradox caused by tampering with the Space-Time Continuum, anyone who knows a lot about Sci-Fi could tell that That is what's happening in that Season Finale!
Considering the spell and the spellwright, part of it might be precautions from the spell itself.
Though her motivation wouldn't be around anymore, Starlight destroying could've meant the last timeline would come to pass, and considering Friendship Games' proximity to it, the timeline might've stayed to Midnight Sparkle destroying the world in her pursuit of magic.
Agreed.
There is one other problem: If you have only one timeline, not only would recreating the future mean mass murder, but the question is still the following: What's with the greatfather paradox? It can only be avoided by a multiverse theory.
I’ve always believed that there is only ‘1’ universe in mlp, it just makes more sense
Endgame wasn't even the first work of fiction to do that whole "going back in time creates a splitting timeline" thing. Dragon Ball had literally done that for years.
My idea is that alternate timelines do exist but there can only only be 1 active(or real but I dunno) timeline while all the others exists as possibilities. To make those possibilities(alternate timelines), changing the past active timeline would change the present active timeline. Separately, if we take that EQG is canon, then there would be another universe(there are many interpretations of multiverse, so just another universe). If assuming that the portal discord open when he was about to banish tree hugger as an entirely separate universe, then the mlp multiverse is real . With this idea, each universe can have multiple possible timelines but only one that’s real while others are possibilities . Although this theory may not take account for other facts.
But I still don’t know what is considered a “universe” in the first place in MLP. Is a timeline a universe or a separate thing of its own.
There is actually a full proof that the timeline itself changed and no multiverse was formed. In the end, after Starlight, Twilight and Spike went back to the original present, Applejack says "What in the world just happen". If there was a multiverse, their original tineline would continued and the mane 5 wouldn't have felt the change . This means that the changes that happened are within the timeline.
So Applejack remembers all these alternate universes?
@llllllllllllllllllllllllll9211 Not exactly. She seemed more confused about what just happened to them. It was as if they are in a deep sleep or something like that.
@@diphalwe6915 We were not shown Applejack, Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy in the Nightmare Moon timeline unfortunately
MLP FIM: Kept saying it has only one timeline that *CAN’T* change (With exceptions…).
Fans: *MULTIVERSE IS REAL!*
The whole point of having a multiverse is so that the story can be rebooted. Comics have been rebooting their stories for years. And it's not just Marvel. Naturally, some people didn't want a reboot so the management told them, oh, but this is a new timeline. It has no bearing on the old timeline. As for what Starlight Glimmer did, there is also the possibility that what they experienced was all a simulation created by Discord. Personally, I prefer the multiverse theory. Not only is The Quantum Multiverse an actual physics thing, it also gives all the AU stories just a touch of legitimacy.
Thing is the first instance of time travel just how time travel works by the laws of physics, if you go back and remind yourself to not do something you actually create it. This is a well known issue with time travel theory, when star light was travelling she was travelling within the prime universe to a single anchor in that universe's space (what she kept bringing twilight to), and so each time she effected the time line the future was different but in the same universe, some theories would say this still makes for unique branches of the universe, but tbh it is 50/50 belief. Thing is as well in one instance we do see her failing to do her spell to hatch Spike, so more likely she does exist in the other futures, just not in the place where she is needed to save the day
Is funny how endgame literally says that each show has it's own rules for time travel
0:25 agreed!
I never even knew multiverse theory was a thing with this
What can be seen as the mlp multiverse are the different generations. Anyway, I do see it as one timeline, but still call the different futures different timelines cause its a bit less confusing in my head ^^"
when in doubt: blame avengers endgame when starlight travels through time
The first time i encounter time travel was from speed racer the next generation where it have an overview of dimension travel, whihc i guess it like the multiverse, and time travel. For time travel, you can go forward and back in time, speed racer and co go back in time to change an outcome, then return to the present, so really they're in the same timeline, but the outcome has changed. Dimension travel is like going sideways through space and time, many shows use this saying of "there are an infinte amount of possibilities based on our choices or other factors.. I guess its just confusion of the dos and don't of time travel and dimension travel
thats my take on it
I like the multiverse theory. but one thing we need to consider is how can a system exist and maintain itself based on every single being's decisions? If I reach for a can of soda but then change my mind, I just made 2 realities. One where I grabbed the soda, and one where I didn't. I like to think only major events trigger a split. But even here on earth, we're just a tiny spec in a grand universe. Do we really make an impact on the grand scale? Another thing to consider is the amount of energy and mass it takes to duplicate the universe. It has to come from somewhere.
Lets go back to one timeline...multiverses are getting old
All of this is true. There is no multiple timeline.
Infinity war did NOT popularize the multiple timelines thing; Dragon Ball Z did. Infinity war came out in 2018, well after this episode aired. It was already common consensus about multiple timelines as people were drawing inference from Dragon Ball Z and future trunks
I always thought this was obvious, no? like starlight glimmer kept doing different things to change the past (with the rainboom), and every time it butterfly effected differently and she kept doing back and doing it over and over again... right??? this video left me more confused then before I watched it
I’m happy you made a video debunking it because honestly, the Multiverse theory is kind of sad just a bunch of different world where everything is wrong.
I agree that the S5 finale makes it very clear there aren't multiple timelines.
But that hardly wraps things up...
Firstly:
In a single-timeline situation, Twilight cannot possibly have memories of events that didn't happen.
Yes, that includes the time-traveler Twilight too.
Only in a multiverse situation could you argue that time-travelers are unaffected by their own actions in the past.
Secondly:
The rainboom isn't important for deciding which cutie-marks the ponies get (since they all get the same ones -- except maybe AJ / RD)
But, Spike hatching _was_ important for Twilight becoming Celestia's protégé.
Which is ultimately the reason why Twilight met her friends...
So why is Spike at Twilight's side in these episodes? -- he'd be some other magic-student's companion instead...
Don't spend too much effort trying to resolve this:
Time travel is nonsense, even in fiction.
Spike hatching was caused by the rainboom, so the rainboom trumps in terms of significance. Without it, spike wouldn’t have hatched and twilight wouldn’t be Celestias protege
Time travel definitely isn’t just nonsense. But here it kind of is. There’s way too many conflicting factors for it to make sense
@@lololghi7909Part of it could be attributed to the spell as both Spike and Twilight got caught by its magic while Starlight cast it, making some parodox situations avoidable as a safety measure for the spell considering Starswirl's reputation as a master spellwright(a bit more probability could exist, though it relies on external media/comics).
The other possibility could be the tree itself, holding a link to the spell as an anchor point or the awareness of it allowing it to create a pocket dimension like Discord's to prevent direct effects from the time manipulation.
Though yeah, it never being addressed besides its potential impact does leave plenty of uncertainty.
Have you ever watched the movie "Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths"? Which came out nearly a Decade before Avengers Endgame, and Owlman clearly explains that Everyone's decisions creates an alternate timeline for each & every one, Billions of People, making Billions of Choices, throughout Countless Years, creating Infinite Earths, also the Ben 10 Franchise has dealt with Alternate Timelines & Parallel Universe situations Numerous times like with the Gwen 10 timeline, aParallel
What Zecora was probably taking about was that the timeline that they existed in was a timeline that was never meant to exist because of Starlight influencing the past to create the timeline that they were stuck living in, and that Starlight tampered with the Primary G4/FiM Timeline causing it's location in the endless plains of Space/Dimensions to be filled by a new timeline that was never supposed to be born, and Zecora told Twilight to go back in time to prevent Starlight from messing with the Primary Timeline so that the Changeling Timeline would not be born, or at least move it to a different plain of space so that the Primary Timeline could be restore to it's right place.
Also the incident with Future Twilight was simply Twilight putting herself in a Bootstrap Paradox, a time travel event where something can exist before it's even created, which is something completely different from the creation of entire alternate timelines, you should really do more research before assuming something like what you just talked about in this video.
time travel is complicated to understand,I do belive the multiverse thing though,but that's just cause that's just how it is in cartoons,we don't get to see the multiverses cause that would make things even more confusing,so I think that's why they simplefied it in MLP,to keep it as one timeline so it doesn't get too complicated,I know nothing about avengers and never even seen the movie at all,so you can't tell me to stop beliving in something that I've never even watched,this is my own belief for MLP
i don't really agree with your endgame theory since it didn't even come out until a few months before fim ended. i'll admit i wasn't paying much attention to fandom theories when the episode came out but it seems unlikely that no one developed their theories about how starlight's spell worked until 2019 when the episodes came out in 2015.
One thing - the mere presence of Starlight in the past alters thee future. As soon as she traveled to the race, the past was altered. Sort of like a Schroeder's Cat situation.
There’s like five different types of time travel. There’s an image of it somewhere from a few popular movies we all knew before Endgame
I have a theory on My Little Pony. What if that alternate timeline doing that season never actually happened
Ok on god after you stated “were going for a ride” a freaking CAR AD PLAYED
I've never even seen Endgame but I thought this was a multiverse because she kept preventing her from doing the rainboom and there was a different result each time.
Edit: Actually no, I thought it was a multiverse because of Sawtooth Wave's video explaining that it's a multiverse
I believe that people think about this multiple realities because we saw different 'paths', dare I say. Like in one world Nightmare moon is the boss, while in another one Discord is the boss. But I think the whole scene is all made wrong for one reason. Remember how the mlp show began. With Nightmare moon coming back as the first big evil gal. And if theoretically speaking twilight and the girls didn't meet and became friends, then there was no one to stop nightmare moon. So logically speaking in all 'realities' where Twilight and the rest didn't meet, Nightmare moon should still be. So the whole thing with all different results is wrong. Since no matter what, Nightmare moon comes back and she isn't stopped. Try and argue with that. Btw @star strike. good video as always
Thanks for the comment!
Three possibilities here.
One is that Nightmare Moon returned, and Celestia had come up with a different plan to defeat her since Twilight wasn't around. Or, it's possible Celestia converted her. As we see in the Discord future, Celestia and Luna are both there together, not Nightmare moon.
It is also possible that another villain showed up and took out Nightmare Moon. I could easily see Discord, Sombra, or Tirek winning that fight.
discord has shown he can distort people so him turning luna back into herself isnt out of the relm of possabilitys. maby celestia even made a bargin for it?
The way i saw it each timelines had each the villens hit equestria and the nightmare moon one might just have been her luckily finding a way to stop the others
@@Star_Strike I agree with the first and second one...but with last...not so much....I mean yeah, Sombra and Tirek are strong, but I don't think Nightmare moon would waste any time to send a student or some shadowbolts are them, I think she would take the matter in her own hooves. she did beat Celestia in a one-on-one without the elements. and discord? Yeah he is short of a god so he can defeat her. thanks for your smart possibilities.
You forgot to mention a third way to time travel: mental time travel via Time Twirler. It also changes history.
This video kinda reminds me of MatPat's "Neville is also a chosen one" video.
What about Equestria Girls though? There it seems is another „time line“? Because there are Eg versions of all ponies
4:30 yea
Here is the problem with your theory, as logical as it is, Starlight herself affected the world of harmony as we know it. Twilight’s original foray into time travel was mostly insignificant. In some ways, it was significant because it gave her character development, but it was also an example of, she was supposed to do that in the first place, and as a result, nothing changed. However, had twilight gone a different route. The twilight of the future would still have existed, sort of, but the timelines would have diverged. In essence, any decision makes from here on out may be a little different, because, she decided not to go the same route that her future self went even though she doesn’t realize it.
The 2009, Star Trek movies tackled the divergent timeline in which both the main original series timeline as well as the Kels and universe timeline exist simultaneously
When the world of harmony was interrupted by starlights twisting of the spell, it created a shoestring bootstrap paradox (something I made up) in which all roads lead back to that original point in time we are Starlight changes the future. Twilight and Spike are able to still exist due to that initial tie in, so the present that they came from is still there, but each present that they travel to is going to be completely different because they don’t have a set known in time in which they can just go back, and leave Starlight to do what she did. If twilight and spike hadn’t gone through the portal, there’s really no telling what would’ve happened, but two different things could’ve happened in my opinion. First twilight would feel the fluctuations since she was at Ground Zero, and things from other universes might start pouring in as a result, or only one separate universe, is going to exist, because twilight chose not to go back in time to stop Starlight, harmony is now having to supplement throughout all these different universes and it may cause some interesting dynamics down the road.
Although I disagree with your claim that there is no multiverse, I do understand your point. It's not that the timeline can't be changed, it's that THAT SPELL can't change the past. I could argue that those other "timelines" do exist as separate timelines, but they didn't continue after Twilight left.
There are two reasons why I disagree with the claim that the multiverse doesn't exist. Equestria Girls, and one of the comics (which was inspired by Equestria Girls, so maybe that's just one reason...). And in EQG and the comics, they have the Mirror Portals. In both cases, these timelines don't branch from each other, but are independent. EQG is canon to the show, so that means that the Mirror Portal is canon, and that includes the Human World.
In the comics, there were other Mirror Portals that were revealed to be made by Starswirl the Bearded. And in one of them, for lack of a better term, morality is swapped. And that includes helping a good version of Sombra save his Equestria from an evil version of Celestia.
Yeah, the Mirror Portals aren't time travel. I get that. As for whether or not there can be a version of time travel in Equestria that can result in branching timelines, I don't know. But I'll agree on your point...at least about the events in the Season 5 Finale.
It is however hard to argue that people claim time travel works this way because of Endgame. Endgame came out in 2019. This episode came out in 2015. And the branching timelines trope was at least popularized during the Trunks Saga of DBZ. But there are several timetravel theories. And I'm a fan of Doctor Who. Did you know that I found an answer to the Grandfather Paradox (I mean, I claim to have found an answer, but it helps answer some paradoxes when you can view time as something other than a strait line).
The theory in End Game is how people believe time travel would work since even without time travel, alternate realities can still exist. A time line where you wear a blue shirt or a red shirt can both exist parallel to each other. No time travel involved. Its connected to string theory and that 11 dimensions thing popularized way back before End Game.
The one the story in mlp used is more like Back to the Future style of Time Travel. Or Heroes. Narratively, it has real stakes so its a popular choice too if you're gonna write a time travel story.
I think the Zelda timeline may have also contributed to the misunderstanding
2:10 yea
Funny.
I've never watched Endgame or most of any Advengers.
Next to no idea what the movies are fully about.
Farthest was Iron Man 1 - 3.
I just thought there were multiple timelines from another reason.
My first thought example was how in Zelda Orcarina of Time splits into 3 timeliness (Adult, Child, and fallen/death of Link) and how they all still exist and yet separate to each other.
It felt similar with Starlight's interruption except it turned to multiple outcomes.
Until Twilight was able to calm Starlight and return to their timeline.
Although, it may not even be their original timeline from when they left, just a very, very similar one.
Even that idea leaves me feeling anxious, curious, and something...?
Um, as a fan of Back to the Future, I object. Endgame wasn't the origin of the multiverse theory. I've seen it in BTTF, as well as a bunch of DC Comics stuff.
One thing I find interesting is that Starlight prevents Rainbow from doing her Sonic Rainboom, but it doesn't change Rainbow's cutie mark. All the mane 6 still has the same cutie mark in all the timelines, this suggests that you can delay when a cutie mark is obtained, but you can't change the cutie mark itself. Now wether that makes sense or not is entirely subjective.
The mark may just hold a different meaning, giving room for error should destiny not go the way it's intended.
❤💯 Correct! Yes finally 🙌
I would love starlight glimmer have a lord drakkon-esque storyline and created her own visioned *universe* and became some sort of god to me.
There is multiverse in mlp
Equestria girls
In the sense of other worlds and dimensions, yes, there is a multiverse. We see many dimensions such as the sock puppet dimension, the O&O dimension, and EQG.
In the sense of alternate timelines specifically though, there is no multiverse.
I got into the whole multiverse theory from startrek years before mlp or any of the avengers movies.
I agree with you
4:26 also didn’t endgame release in 2019. The episode was in 2016.
Hi I like you video on my little pony