The Problem With Swinging In Spider-Man Games
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
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☰ TimeStamps:
0:00 Intro
2:39 Types of Swinging
2:54 Anim Based 2D
3:24 War Thunder
4:19 Anim Based 3D
5:30 Physics Based 3D
10:49 What Spider-Man Gets Right (Nearly Everything)
11:26 What Spider-Man Gets Wrong (How to Fix)
12:20 Low Swinging
13:46 Swing Control
14:44 Air Tricks
15:38 Momentum/Speed
16:35 World Interactivity/Animations
17:58 Outro - Zábava
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I really wanted him to talk about Web of Shadows swinging.. The webs don't attach to buildings but the swinging feels so good and it does require skills.
they do attach to buildings but they hover a few feet away so it looks a bit wonky
nah
@@DaRealViso you're both correct, that happens sometimes too
@@thisbubblygoodness7611 yea I'm pretty sure the only times the web attaches to the air is if the objects you can swing on are to low to the ground
It doesn't attach to buildings, but it crucially *still* attaches, even if it's to the sky. It's still 100% physics based. Less realistic, but still fun and beautiful, capturing the Spider-Man experience pretty well
I think it's a shame you didn't mention Web Of Shadow's web swinging system, since I consider it to be just as good as SM2's system. The webs themselves I think are the best part, they feel so elasticky and visually look amazing, while the physics are refined while still feeling realistic
The way you can slide up the building over the peak before you fall down to the next swing is reeeaally addicting..
@@AfroV The best thing is when you knee slide up a building and spiderman just backflips into a swan dive.
fr Web of Shadows always had an amazing web swinging and wall sliding movements that makes you want to practice how you maneuver quickly to buildings and enemies, god I miss wall combat and it's unique combat system aswell. I hope the sequel adds that or perhaps shows more of it's new unique moves
@@inkchariot6147 im so glad you guys mention the knee-sliding mechanic when you go up and down buildings.
it genuinely feels like a pro-skater move and its amazing.
TASM 2 Crying in the Background for not even being mentioned at all 😂😂neither the video nor the. comment section
The speed issue has actually been explained by insomniac as a streaming issue, the PS4 couldn't handle loading so much detail when speeds got too high so they limited his maximum speed. In the remaster they did increase his speed but only slightly. With Spiderman 2 coming exclusively to PS5 the issue will likely be gone and the speed and momentum issues you stated will probably be gone.
So that's why it felt different
It won't, the PC mods already proven it. 2018 it had a speed of 1, their plan is to upgrade to 2, which has already shown to be not even close to older games' speed, which were somewhat closer from 3 to 4, and even then that won't change the fact the game doesn't have physics, so making it faster won't fix an issue that anyone can do now with the mods. Now the least they can do is raise the speed.
@@radrno7 so just play on PC and mod the game, n quit bitching
@@radrno7 I don’t think it needs to be 3-4 times faster that’s a little absurd
@@radrno7 For most mods it felt like you were flying across the city. The moment Peter let’s go of the webs he’s halfway across another building. That’s not all the mods just some.
I think it's a shame Web of Shadows wasn't mentioned. It's web slinging system and more importantly Peter's movement on the walls and air is fantastic.
Sliding on walls was the most fire shit I've ever seen in a Spider-Man game
I still remember I use to to that same sliding animation in real when I was kid. It's soooo good. There was a rotating puch animation too that was also coool
Insomniac has the best swinging rn
@@RMCUU youre wrong
@@Lua0x07 then what does💀 it ain't wos definitely 😂 you literally just swing onto air insomniac has better fundamentals etc while swinging
I think having the freedom to swing any way you want is a great feature as it allows you to do cool moves on your own instead of being able to swing and do some generic move intended by the game but I hope they improve it in the next game
That's why real-time physics based swinging is so much better. It presents some challenge and reward by releasing the swing too late, too early or spot on.
Did you not play miles morales and see how free form the web swinging and animations were?
Just go look at the web swinging in that game and you’ll see they already improved it a ton but how fluid his body moved
@@Blueslyfox But it's still a gimmick that gets old quickly. Like how many times can you watch Miles open his phone while falling before you get bored? Physics-based swinging is superior, as literally every swing is unique since it depends on your location in space relative to the building, the forces acting on you, e.g. gravity, momentum, etc.
@@fernandowong371 Yup, outside the tricks the game still has the core issue the previous game had. It barely feels like I'm in the shoes of Spider-Man and rather the game is partly being Spider-Man whilst I'm just there for the ride
I like the idea that swinging could be exactly like skate 3 physics with actual damage. I enjoy the web swinging in the game but I would love to actually be able to have that tense feeling of cutting it as close as I can by falling and shooting my web at the last second for a crazy amount of speed only to dodge everything else coming at me. One thing I kinda get bothered by is being able to move him in mid air so easily.
I think they should add it as an option, or part of a new difficulty
Honestly fr, halfway through Spider-Man ps4 the swinging doesn't feel satisfying anymore and you start to notice that he moves like a fucking plane.
im glazing just cause 3, but i love the wingsuit in that game for the same reason, especially combining it with the grapple
Movement mods can make the swinging more realistic
came to this video right here just to say that they added a new realistic swinging slider into spiderman 2:) it causes peter to hit obstacles more frequent, swing in the direction of the buildings that peter’s web latch onto as well as having him fall to the ground if he gets too low!
I have it on 0 swinging assistance
The one thing I think makes the whole, "just hold forward and R2 and spiderman will do it for you" in Spider-Man PS4 because Peter isn't just going to let himself smack into a wall, he's been Spider-Man for 8 years, he's skilled, which makes it seem more immersive and flow better than if he just slammed into a wall like an idiot. But I get that people want to have a challenge.
So the hand holding is because Peter is supposed to be experienced right? What about Miles? He's new at all this. Honestly they should have left everything up to the player and if Peter fails, he should say something like "I must be tired or something", and if Miles fails he should say "I thought I'd gotten the hang of this by now"
No.
At least they added in Miles crashing onto the floor when failing a trick
@@no.1spidey-fan182 yeah that's true
@@Fade_ToBlack yes
Honestly they should really look at how Uncharted 4 does it. Zero hand holding and you have to be aware of what you're doing at all times. Makes for some fantastic traversal that feels both unique for a given player and earned
Something I like about spider-man 2 is that you don't have to face plant into the wall when your swinging. If you react fast enough, you can wall run up it like in spider-man ps4, except you actually meant to do it
Truth! Really makes it feel like the split decisions are significant + impactful
In Spider-Man 3 and Web of Shadows, you do faceplant into walls if you swing too fast. They need to have that in the sequel. It shows as a consequence for you being reckless. Same thing with fall damage.
@@winnesota_ yes. But it would be cool if you could easily avoid it when you're skilled
The amount of control they give you in SM2 is incredible and it feels awesome to play. You can even control the speed of your mid-air flips. If you hold the jump/air trick button (X) instead of just tapping it, you do a slow version of whatever air trick is next in line, and you control how long it lasts by how long you hold the button. Not really a crucial gameplay mechanic but i just love the amount of freedom they give the player. I don't really care about doing the flip tricks but it has a gameplay element as well, it builds your spidey-sense meter, which slows down time (You can also build it up by doing "clean swings" where you don't hit any buildings)
The swinging on Fortnite during the Spider-Man event was surprisingly one of the most satisfying swingings I ever played.
You also had a lot of control over the web and could mess up. My favorite thing was being able to do loops with the webs on certain buildings like bridges. I felt like in one of the swinging scenes of Spider-Man 1 when Peter is going after Green Globlin to save Mary Jane.
Spider-Man 2018 was great animation wise, but there were definitely something about its swinging physics that wasn't that much satisfying. Specially when jumping from the highest building and swinging on the last possible moment. It didn't felt as fast as it was supposed to.
Just so you know, if you miss that swinging, there's actually a few creative maps that have the "Grapple Glove" which is basically the same thing. I can find one of the maps if you're interested
This video is the Spider-Man version of Sonic Fans talking about Sonics slope physics
I was thinking the exact same thing while watching this video.
@@donjason7874 a man of culture i see
I love the structure of your videos. Good visuals, you speak well. I find myself listening through the whole thing. Your efforts are not wasted. Very entertaining and I wish game developers took your suggestions.
100% agreed. His editing is perfect for these showcase and/or analysis a concept videos, it inspires me everytime.
He should teach a class.
Thank you for the kind words! It is nice to see someone enjoys it :D
@@StuartLugsden I'd love to watch that masterclass.
@@DarkSpaceStudios What editing software do you use? I'm genuinely curious.
Insomniac should add two systems similar to what was done in SM2 where you could choose automatic or manual swinging
Where one could be more controlled like it is in previous games and the other is how it is fully player based so it can be preferable for two kinds of players
This 👏🏻
Either way, that's not happening becuase they fixed their swinging to be controlled.
But you can make swinging harder within the settings, though.
now you have those options
??? No
@@ianfrankegordon4182yes
Ehhh... I hope in SM3 they do the actual "Select your swinging mode" thing, since everyone complained that it wasn't worked on because they didn't know about the assist slider. They should give it to you as an option on the new game menu instead of going into accessibility, and you still should have things like loop-de-loop and corner tether as basic movement abilities, not unlockable skills.
Web of Shadows might be a good thing to look at as a frame of reference for, what I feel is, the best Spider-Man physics a game has ever received.
While I think the swinging in Insomniac’s Spider-Man is serviceable and holds enough weight, it definitely feels pretty automated at certain points that you’ve mentioned.
Great video!
Its still surprising that people dont mention Web of Shadows when it comes to swinging.
This. So much this. IMO, WoS had the best aspects of SM2 and SM 2018 combined: satisfying physics based swinging that's easy to learn yet hard to master.
For me, the best Spider-Man game to fully master web swinging is Spider-Man 3.
Spider-Man 3 was a super good game because it had such a good variety of swinging,
Like dual swinging, running on poles,
And also, the way they made air-tricks so useful to the game is mind blowing,
Most people hate it but they don’t fully understand how the game wanted you to swing.
Keep in mind that web of shadow is 95% taken from Spider-Man 3.
Also: the goddam speed in that game was so good.
Like you could get so far by swinging but it didn’t feel weird.
The physic is not that good since buildings are not taken into account when swinging..
@@ahadullahalimi9332 I hate it how everyone be sleeping on both USM and SM3. The web swinging from SM2 all the way to WoS is the same system.
As much as I love 2018 Spiderman I have to agree with everything you said. Its great, its what I want, but Spiderman 2 still dose it better in some areas. If they combined both and had options like turning off the wall colliding animation then it would be absolutely perfect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciated having to learn how to swing well in Spiderman 2. Another thing I like about the Spiderman 2 swinging is that the building blocks themselves are so simple, you can shoot a web, hang on to it, jump from it, wall run etc. and the cool stuff you can do is a result of the "systems" and physics put in place by the game, making it feel like I discovered some cool move even if it was 100% intended by the devs. The newer game doesn't have that kind of discovery, I think, but it does have an insane amount of handcrafted animations and motions that look sweet.
Insomniac will definitely make you disciver thos time when it comes to their physics.
Spiderman 2 also had an easy mode. They could've implemented something similar to the 2018 release. I was a bit disappointed that you could not even do loops as spiderman would release the web automatically. I agree with you on everything here.
Another amazing video! Awesome. Insomniac developers mentioned in a GDC talk on YT, that they initially went all physics based for the first iteration of their web swinging but it didn't feel good and was difficult. So they added some invisible helpers to really make you "feel like Spider-man". I do hope that they allow you to touch the ground while swinging in Spider-man 2. Btw, I can link to the talk if anyone wants to see that.
Treyarch's Spider-Man 2 definitely has the best swinging control by far. Because hitting a wall or being too close to the ground results in lost speed in that game, players are constantly encouraged to improve their skills in order to go as fast as possible. It was a system based on meritocracy, but because Insomniac doesn't prioritize that philosophy, swinging in their Spider-Man games can feel boring after several minutes, as your speed varies less often.
Also it being a PlayStation exclusive too was a benefit and a curse. Sure it got the big budget required to make the game look and feel polished but because it's a huge game, they have to downgrade mechanics so that a 5 year old kid can easily go through most of the game
@@DatPRGuy2017 they can improve heavily in Spider-Man 2.
You had me up until the last part.... It bugs me how Insomniac's Spider-Man wants to hold your hand when it comes to web swinging. But to say it's boring? I mean it's still enjoyable and very satisfying I think!
@@huliniswhoiam yeah, for the 1st 2 hours.
@@user-ee8eo4hi6q I disagree. I thoroughly enjoyed the swinging throughout the city.
YES! The advanced swinging is something i’ve always wanted. I always wished i could be punished for bad swinging, because it makes the good, skillful swinging much more rewarding!
ah yes id love to face plant into a wall at mach 2 instead of just keeping my movement
Ther testet that at insomniac found it wasnt fun and replaced it with a fun systhem instead
Spiderman 2 ps2
@@indedgames4359Says a lot more about the play testers than the mechanics themselves.
I loved swinging through the city in Ultimate Spider-Man & I was 9 years old.
That game had full pendulum physics & fall damage.
@@god_number4
Soooo don't turn the (hypothetical) option on
You can keep the swinging you like, others can keep the swinging they like, and everyone is happy
Thank you for at least mentioning Ultimate Spider-Man but I still stand by it being the most underrated spider-man game. The combination of the swinging and the web zipping made you feel so agile just like you should as a superhero that relies so much on his movement
Web zipping was so satisfying in that game! I also loved the style. Combat was lacking but the story made it worth it
I believe they will improve web swing physics in Spider-Man 2.
So far they dont even try to replicate it.
@@Kacpa2 What does that even mean? How would you know what they're doing in a game we've seen zero gameplay of?
@@gavo7911 No game after Spiderman 2 tried to replicate its web slinging physics so far.
@@Kacpa2 I believe the commenter you replied to was referring to Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2, not the old one
@@Kacpa2 ultimate Spider-Man and web of shadows. web of shadows tried to do so much . aside from webs floating near to buildings, the swinging system is pretty great. it looks great ,feels flat, you fuck you'll feel the fuck up.
I wish you at least mentioned the swinging mechanic of Tasm 2. They added one feature that i wished every spiderman game had. Left and right trigger their respective web shooters. I think in the discussion of freedom to swing this is an important aspect as you actually have control over which side you want to move and are punished for accidentally using the wrong trigger in certain areas like around the edges of cities or around central park where you want to fire your webs on one specific side. This also helps reduce the whole "hold one button to move straight forward automatically" as your webs will swing to one direction based on the the trigger.
It is such a shame that you just disregarded those games like that.
That idea was cool but the main problem with TASM 2's swinging is that the animations were very repetitive plus the momentum felt off compared to past gamws
@@DatPRGuy2017 thats why i only mentioned the triggers and nothing else. The web zip mechanic that goes into first person is also nice but i think I prefer Insomniac's web zip.
@@lamedrawings I like the Concept tho of Web Rush
That's definately something I'd want in an advanced swinging mode, I may be swayed by nostalgia, as I joined the spidey fandom around 2013-ish (my first marvel comic books, if memory serves, was the last few issues of Superior Spider Man, where the real Superior Spidey, Peter, returned) but I do have fond memories of the TASM 2 game, it does a lot wrong, but there are a few things it did well, and the swinging controls were one of them.
@@medafan53 Imagine how a swinging control like that effects boss battles like in Vulture & Electro fight where you're swinging around most of the time
Bro got his wish 🙏🙏
How did you not mention the splat animation from spiderman 2? If you're ripping along at max speed (as far as I know it's impossible to get the animation to play without a few swing speed upgrades) and you slam into a wall spiderman halts all momentum and pancakes across the wall, arms and legs splayed out. It's a hilarious way to punish players for getting extra careless, because you have to hit a wall nearly dead on ad well.
In Spider-Man Miles Morales, they also had that dollar animation. Also while I do understand the points the video made, I do think of PS4 Spider-Man's web swinging and why he wall runs if you swing towards a wall in a narrative way. In Spider-Man 2, he's only got 2 years of swinging under his belt and therefore can't fully maneuver swinging into walls. PS4 Spider-Man, has over 8 years to get it down so of course his parkour skills are a bit higher. However, I do agree that the swinging right over the street is a little wonky.
Plus the point about Miles and how he's more interested in looking cool than getting there fast, he's a brand new Spider-Man so of course he's going to look and feel slower. However if you notice the swing animation and speed from the beginning of the game to the end, you'll notice a pretty decent difference.
@@jasonmsanchez
No, Spider-Man should be punished for carelessly swinging, it doesn't have to be like ps2 where you just plant your face in the building, but encourage smart swinging.
If you swing straight into a building, then you should be punished with losing your momentum.
Not face planting, but the fast impact means that spider-man has to stop for a moment before he starts wallrunning up, and he shouldn't be at full wallrunning speed, when he does. it should build up.
but the player should be able to circumvent these momentum killer animations/moves by smart swinging.
if the player wants to wallrun, but they don't want to have their momentum ruined, they could "tactically" attach their web in such a way, that they are not forced to crash into building. instead they swing up next to the building so that their movement is close to parallel to the building's walls, when they player then lets go, all the momentum they have can be easily tranferred to a wallrun without losing speed.
@@DatAsianGuyy'all be so picky
@@crashjetto wanting an improved system for the sequel is now being picky?
@@DatAsianGuyNo he is saying “Y’all be picky.” Because you guys want all of the mechanics just for web-swinging which will prob to very time consuming and almost impossible to do. But at the end of the day it’s still just a video game and it does not have to be completely realistic.
This video perfectly captures the small issues with the swinging system, amazing job as always
now it's everything good in new spider man 2
I appreciate your take on this! Your absolutely right about having a more advanced swing system for people who want to feel the mistakes, or feel more control.
This was an interesting video, well done too. For my own thoughts on swinging I think Insomniac did really well with the mechanics. Personally I like that it holds my hand to a degree with the swinging. I have a disability and only the use of my left hand. (I'm playing it on PC by the way). I can set all the controls to the left side of the keyboard and just go full bore through the city at amazing speed. There are points where the game gives me a hand, but I don't really notice it. Partly because Insomniac worked really hard to hide that behind the scenes. But more to the point that helping hand made me feel like Spider-Man to such a degree that it didn't matter. (Though I agree with what you said about Central Park).
To add onto what you suggested I think that perhaps there could be, three levels of swinging. Perhaps you could select one from the accessibility menu. The first would be what we got in Insomniac's SM1 and presumably Miles Morales. The second could be a bit more intensive where you get a greater level of freedom to pull of the tricks and swinging mechanics with less handholding and helps you get used to the tougher mechanics unaided. The third, could be advanced and incorporate the parkour and movement animations that Insomniac got right, but gives the player more total control over swinging, running, diving etc.
your other video games related videos are awesome ! Great to hear you on something else than GTA and doing something you're passionnate about !
Looks like the developer understands the problem and tried to fix it with an adjustable swinging assist in Marvel Spiderman 2. By turning off the swinging assist, there is a possibility of losing momentum when you hit something. It's a neat feature. Even tho if it's not gonna be the same as OG Spiderman 2 level, at least it's there
Spider-man 2 (PS5) does have the ability to adjust swing assistance. It does feel more momentum based but I don't think it's enough. I don't think adding a web suit builds on the swinging. They didn't fix the low swinging issue. And if you set the assistance to 0 with fall damage and try to swing low, there isn't much saving you from the ground since there isn't the ability to run on the ground or if the arc is too low you'll hit the ground since you can't control the web length or climb the lines.
Finally a criticism of most these games I can fully get behind. I think the reason they don't make the swing system more realistic is to streamline the experience for players. But I think what they miss is a swing system that emphasized momentum would feel more fun and make traversal more strategic and interesting.
You definitely spot on the problem with insomniac spider man swinging, especially on web control and momentum also the willingness of let player fail and stumble upon swinging. At first I thought the lack of dedicated wall attach button,you know so that I could stop swinging whenever I wanted to, is the problem, but after seeing your explanation its all about web control and momentum and insomniac definitely need to see this video.
Having played Spider-Man 2 and not being good at swinging beforehand, i can ASSURE u the swinging is better in this one and i DEFINITELY lose momentum when i hit a wall or hit the ground now. Its realistic and makes my failure hurt💀
Also they even added a fall damage option
Wait until u die due to loop swing 😂
and this is why you voice your criticisms folks
This reminds me of the "Normal" vs "Novice" controls topic on Ace Combat. One let's you fully control the aircraft, i.e. manually do rolls and loops with complete freedom. The other feels like driving a car that can go up and down.
Spider man 2 definitely improved in this aspect
I think the mechanics in spider-man ps4 where it saves you from hitting the corner of a building could be useful in the advanced version too. If they have it be almost nonexistent while you're swinging slower, but have it be more present if you're swinging fast, since it's harder to control when you're going super fast
What I think should be a swinging system is to have R2 as right swing with right arm and L2 with the other arm giving that feeling of web swinging
Tasm games did it but it feels unnecessary
I have been thinking a lot about these problems, thanks for making this video.
Agree to 100%!
This is why I like Spider-Man 2 on PS2, you were rewarded for good gameplay but also punished for swinging poorly and lost your speed.
This will NEVER happen in Insomniacs SM games though :(
so cool that they actually made it optional to have the swing assist in the sequel.
Still - zero physics
Having two or more options for swinging mechanics is a perfect solution, give players the choice. Many videos like this I've seen ask for risk but don't consider its very difficult for the game to tell if you wall running was a failed swing or something intentional but with options that allowed for a more easy and higher risk option they can have their cake and eat it too
Great video!... ive always thought it would be a cool idea to have each trigger shoot a web from that hand. full control kinda vibe
i know attention to detail in miles morales is top notch. i remember doing trick falling all the way to the ground and boucing off the concrete leaving an imprint of the bounce in the snow. THAT WAS DOPE AS FUQ.
YESSIR!
It's crazy to think games are getting so advanced that they can leave imprints in the snow for every action you can possibly do along with the full accurate reflections, higher pedestrian count, and the fluidity in general it's such a cool concept to me that we went from 2 sticks and a bouncing ball to what we have now.
Watching this after the Spider-Man 2 gameplay reveal, sadly it seems like Insomniac played it safe and didn't iterate on the web swinging. Still need proper free roaming gameplay to come to a conclusion, but it seems like we're stuck with artificial and automated swinging.
i think they just overhauled the web sound effects, it seemed the exact same "holding your hand" type swinging unfortunately
Tbh that decreases a lot of the excitement I had for that game. Cuz I've already sunk hours in that swinging system and am quite bored by it, I don't need to spend money to get the same swinging system because I can play that right now.
I was really looking forward to seeing an improved version of the web swinging in Spiderman 2, but from the gameplay trailers, it still has the same problems as the first two games, which was extremely disappointing to me. Oh well. Maybe they’ll improve it in Spiderman 3
They are people who like to please everybody... they can still add it as an option, becuase they are people who love to give players veriety on what they can do when it comes to accessibility.
They have said that we only got a taste on what we saw.
So we shall see...
Just have faith.
This is what happens when all feedback gets immediately shut down sadly was hoping for a swinging overhaul the swinging is way way way on rails for a character that thrives off the thrill of freedom and freeflow
This video explains the issue perfectly, I agree 100%! The one thing I want to expand on is the inaccurate momentum in both the newer titles and even PS2’s Spider-Man 2. I’ve never swung on ropes in the Grand Canyon but no matter what title I play, I’ve always felt that the momentum was not fast enough, and I wasn’t launching myself higher or farther as I believe I should. Keeping a balance to the game could be a reason for this, but I hope to see a change for the better one day. After seeing gameplay footage from Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2, which I am so very excited for but the traversal aspect of its swinging appears to be the same, but now with web gliding implemented, which is pretty sweet. Nonetheless, I’m very excited and I don’t mean to judge it yet without even trying it first. I just hope Insomniac has implemented improvements and new ways of expression without the overstepping protection/control that this video mentioned. If that’s not the case for this new game, then hopefully, an Insomniac developer will see this video for a chance of consideration towards future titles to be implemented.
this video aged so well after marvels spiderman 2's release
Can we talk about why fall damage is the boogeyman? My palms still sweat when I'm swinging atop the highest buildings in Spider-Man PS2 but in the PS4 game I can be in any difficult situation barreling towards the ground and feel nothing because it's 0 risk. 100% the new Insomniac game needs lethal fall damage but 100% they won't implement that.
Personally, I wouldn’t think Spider-Man could die while falling. He’s superhuman after all.
@@christopherjohnsonthe2ndch644 Maybe not lethal fall damage then but like 90%-95%, then just tweak the game so it’s harder to leave combat scenarios with full health and there you go, looming threat of death and once again thrilling movement.
If they implement that, people will go fucking nuts and complain because the game would be "too hard".
@@notpeterparker5863 I played dark souls 1, 3, in progress of 2, finished Sekiro twice, beat Bloodborne countless times. If they do that I would not have any 'its too hard' gripes
This isn’t elden ring
i think the ability to stay held onto a web should totally be added in. i wanna do a full loop dude!
Ps4 and Ps2 being there with their respective gameplay footage during the side by side was such a nice touch 🤌
Damn the motion graphics in this video is amazing. I can see the effort put into this. Great job!!
Well, you got what you wanted. You can now incrementally turn down the Swinging assist from 10 to 0 in Spiderman 2.
Nice
Insconmiac delivered
Copium
@@hgyuuuuhj098?what
this much cope is dangerous for your heart, Tim
I Subscribed on your channel just yesterday. And for today I watched a lot of your videos and liked it.
I am not even English speaker, and not used to watch content on foreign language. But your videos are unique and interesting, so I truly watch it with curiousity. So much right things you saying, and talks about not ordinary themes.
Thanks for your work! Nice job you did 👍🏻
Thank you! I would like to get my videos translated but i'm not really sure how to do it honestly.
@@DarkSpaceStudios It depends on which one you prefer.
I saw translated Nostalgia Critic content, this is just Russian channel, that make dub on every critic video.
And second way, is subtitles on your videos
The new spiderman game has something to do with where the camera is facing, if you follow with the camera up at the end of the swing, pete or miles doesn't let go the web and you can perform something similar, but yeah, i wish they had an option activate/deactivate the swing assists. Thanks for the video btw!
Awesome video also there is a charged jump for the two spider man games it’s in the skill tree but u hold R2 and x then your controller vibrates and when it stops you release the 2 buttons and spider man will jump high in the air it’s also the same for running but u use the left stick with R2 and x and spider man will release a charged running jump
Now this is interesting
Dude your content is amazing there some of the best videos I’ve ever watched on youtube didn’t expect to see you here lol 😂
@@ToastedHeadcrab Eyyy nice to see a fan here
I believe that they did that not only for the mentioned reasons, but because there we're the drone challenges and all that pursuit/timed bs, I hoppe that un Sp2 those challenges are tweaked or not included at all
those challanges are designed with the mechanics in mind they are not what caused them to be the way they are in fact spiderman 2 (2004) was super packed with those (much more then insomniac's games) and they varied on the type of challange they wanted to put the player through in fact you had to specific moves to be able to get the checkpoints
The "advanced swinging" system you mentioned at the end of the video reminds me of the "assisted mode" in Devil May Cry 5.
In that game, you have the ability to create super intricate combos that look really cool, but it takes a while to fully understand all the moves your character can do, so when you first start playing you will struggle to pull off the cool moves, but you are rewarded for putting the time in. With the assisted mode enabled, just pressing the attack button a bunch will automatically do some pre programmed combos for you without much input from you being required, it takes away control from you in exchange for making your character look cool, which is perfect for less abled gamers or people who just wanna have a good time killing demons and looking cool doing it, while not having the time to really get good at the combat.
Wow, I've been working on a video about this exact subject for a few years (or at least how to fix Insomniac's swinging), you touched on a LOT of points I was thinking about as well and did a beautiful job! I'm still looking to make mine, would you mind if I reference bits of this at points and credit you?
My fear is that since it's coming too fast, Spider-Man two will basically have the same exact swinging physics as the first game. Which is fun, but they can and should do better.
Miles was released not too far from the 1st game, yet it still made pretty noticable improvements to the swinging. At least the looking cool part.
@@insertnamehere658 Yeah, but looking cool is all about animations. I hope they improve on the physics and mechanics.
@@ullyssessilverio5923 I have the same concern, I'm not really holding my breath on that aspect of the game unfortunately, I feel like it'll just be flashier animations with no actual improvement to the physics :/
@@Cybernyde yep. I hope we're very wrong!
It'll be 5 years since the first one by the time Spider-Man 2 comes out...
Insomniac did a really good job with Spider-Man (2018) and Miles Morales and were improved for the PS5 versions for sure, but some ragdoll physics other than when Spider-Man dies would be nice
It happened! Spider-Man 2 for PS5 has this implemented! Although it’s a slider setting so you can adjust how much swinging assist you want. It is very cool.
Great video man, I completely agree with you, especially about the two different swinging options idea. I do think web of shadows deserved a mention though.
some f ur ideas r imported in spiderman 2 (not sure i watched this vid long time ago)
You could make the same video for 3D sonic games and momentum.
This is the time where realism is no longer tied to graphics and world size/scope only... PHYSICS is now probably thee most important aspect of video games, but its kind of neglected. In Sonic games, In Skateboarding Games, In GTA like games, and in the new Spider-Man.
Physics is so important. But I feel like we are still in the 7th gen era when it comes to physics (with GTA5 its worst cos they went backwards.)
Methodical video and this topic is food for thought, I personally try to wall run or, for example in the park use the pillars and lights to jumpboost and keep the momentum, but there is really no danger for failling, you can climb the avengers tower and land on the floor, swing full speed against a wall, there is no consequence, same applies to the fighting, man throws the burglars so hard it breaks concrete and the burglars get up for more, Spider-man doesn't kill, they get thrown off rooftops and somehow they get webbed to a wall. Details, hard to control details.
I hope they include Spiderman climbing his web and the mechanic of shooting two webs towards buildings to stay suspended in mid air in Marvel Spiderman 2
The thing about swinging isn't just about the "fast, blurring speeds", but the fact that you were capable of fairly achieving that speed thanks to your skill and momentum control. You could actually accelerate, while newer spider-man games do not let you do that, keeping your swinging pace always the same. Naturally, in older spider-man games, the more speed you gain, the harder it is to maneuver around the buildings as you were taking bigger risks of hitting something, yet it was still quite rewarding.
You can absolutely accelerate in the new games. I'm not saying it's the best system, but it's really, really easy to prove acceleration and varying swing speeds exist and you get there by adjusting your swing to increase momentum. I don't get what you mean by the pace is "always the same", it's fundamentally untrue and anybody can see this for themselves by experimenting for about 10 seconds or so.
@Payton Mollo I think you people forget that there's a lot more to fucking do in the games than just swinging, you want an extremely intricate swinging system then the game would be only swinging.
@@Agherosh There's nothing too complicated about it, though. Activision has managed to give Spider-Man proper swinging in those games. Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man 3, Spider-Man 2, even Spider-Man: Web Of Shadows. All of those games have good web-swinging system that only lacks in Spidey's flashiness and moves he'd make in air (like in new spider-man games), but that's about that. It gave you good control over your speed, ACTUAL pace increase, was challenging if you were getting good with it, AND was also far more in depth than it is in newer spider-man games.
@@Agherosh
If you ask basically anyone who played Spiderman 2, they'll tell you that most of what they did in the game was just swing around aimlessly, getting into the flow of swinging fast.
Yes there's more to do than just swing, but how do you get to places? You swing, unless you really want to tell me that you just walk location to location in a Spiderman game?
@@reddodeado301 Go ask for a swinging simulator then, a game where they take all of their efforf and put it into that, no story, no music, no good graphics, no combat, just swinging.
Thank you so much I’ve been saying Spider-Man 2 was still elite swing and to this day or until they do something like this to perfect it in the future. People where biased with Spider-Man ps4 swinging mechanics and I argued and argued and argued. Nobody was getting it. The way you articulated this was what I’ve been trying to explain. I thought I was crazy. I hate the fact the Spider-Man has unlimited agility and ways to get around and with style but it’s held back disrespectfully. Spider man 2 and I’ll say, even Spider-Man web of shadows and ultimate Spider-Man had something going with the physics that are true to Spider-Man’s nature. Especially climbing on the web while swinging I loved that so much. That’s why I love his poses while he’s swinging on his web and threw the air and multiple ways of agility and speed. But people that I spoke too were very little minded and wasn’t looking at the big picture about Spider-Mans web swinging in PlayStation 5. Like even from the movies adaptations of Spider-Man’s winging I wished where implemented in games today. Spider-Man ps5 (4) even miles morales could’ve just used what they have already but just add it with Spider-Man 2’s mechanics. But for some reason no. I’m glad there’s people like you that recognize this. This is not a knock to Spider-Man ps5 but I feel like it still could’ve been better. Especially with the technology today. Like cmon Spider-Man 2 did it on ps2 like for real. You mean to tell me a highly advanced console and the technology we have today can’t even compete with something that was made a decade ago? Cmon now stop playing with my boi Spidey and get his swinging correct.
It's not that they couldn't have collisions, they obviously can. The game recognises that there will be a collision so does something to prevent it whilst still looking natural. I do prefer it like that to be honest. The question which the devs obviously asked themselves during development is should they.
Not every aspect of a game needs to be punishing, swinging in a Spider-Man game should involve some hand holding so that players can look good doing it and get that satisfaction, remember even the original reasoning behind a physics based system was to not be realistic, but to make players feel like Spider-Man, spider-man doesn't crash into buildings, he does break his swing and run up them. The real punishment should and does come in the form of the combat.
Insomniacs swing system is a great balance between giving players control, but also having preset animations and hand holding to keep the swinging looking good and maintain momentum. I think a genuine improvement to be made will be to in regards to swinging low and redirecting to go through pipes and gaps. Low swinging doesn't look good sometimes when the game forces it, neither does this strange float redirection when you go to webzip through a small gap, so there's no loss in preventing that from happening. But I don't think building collisions should be a thing, perhaps running or even sliding along the ground when you launch a web when low to the ground whilst swinging would be a cool aesthetic change.
It be best if they just did like spiderman 2 and give actual options between casual and skilled swinging.
You’re editing is pretty good 👍
I actually remember long ago when streaming Spider-Man Remastered that something felt off on the swinging, having come from Web of Shadows. I've never been able to fully realize what I felt on that stream, part of me still kind of preferred the punishing swinging from Web of Shadows (especially if you get all the collectables which upgrades the swing speed to max level 11), the speed was just exhilarating and just knowing that one mistake on the timing of letting go of the web can spell doom on your momentum just amplified the feeling. While on the Insomniac one you had to mod the game just to get even close to the same amount of adrenaline rush you get when swinging at maximum speed, I also kind of hated how you just suddenly lost momentum sometimes (this video actually explained why that happens so thank you).
it was buggy as hell though, and if they ever remade Web of Shadows with the same attention to detail as the Insomniac games BUT retained its web swinging mechanics, I would definitely play that instead.
I understand that this is different from your typical GTA content, but I'd really like to see you make more videos like this, whether it be Spider-Man or something else. Also, I really appreciate you making this video as not enough people criticize Spider-Man PS4's web swinging. But the unfortunate fact of the matter is that as these Spider-Man games are AAA, it also means they have to be accessible to even the worst player. Casual gamers dislike challenge and that means unless Insomniac incorporates a separate mode for challenging web swinging and easy web swinging like Spider-Man 2, then I doubt Spider-Man 2 PS5 is going to be more challenging.
So that's why the swinging didn't appeal to me in the new Spider-man games. It was okay, but didn't have the joy of the Ps2 Spider-man which had me playing it for hours, just to go swinging.
Another thing I wanted was like the force of the web pulling on spiderman,so basically like in the opening of the amazing spiderman 2 when hes in first person,you can see how hes getting pulled by the webs,also his body is turning and not always facing forward
I do want to say you can hold on to the web forever in spider man ps4 if you’re going slow enough you just have to hold the opposite direction and not run into the building it’s really janky but it still works also when he stops moving he’ll even flip upside down and chill
Congrats on 159k subs
Thank you! Unreal!
Bro rly foreshadowed Spiderman 2 swing physics
About that Advanced Swinging you wondered about at the end...
I believe I came up with an awnser.
Hey DarkSpace! Loved your video, you have tackled thisproblem very well, and the swinging really could use some more grounded physics to feel more rewarding.
About that Advanced Swinging you wondered about, i've been working on a swing mechanic concept WITHIN Spider-Man 2018's mechanic. It's about setting rules for yourself to prevent you from breaking some key physics related to a swing and it's pendulum effect, also changing the way you look at the city and at the objects, as everything now becomes useful and important for the traversion.
I call it Ultra Realistic Web-Swing, and I've been practing it and learning more about the game for about 2 years now, and the results are really good. My more recent videos shows how a future Spidey game could look if they went for a swing mechanic grounded in reality, and I gotta say, it makes the game 100x more interesting and challenging, as every swing is YOUR responsibility instead of being assisted by the game. Every manouver, avery air trick, every landing, you're in control, and after you get used to the rules, you really start feeling exactly like Spider-man, having to sort of calculate where the swing will take you and what to do next.
If you're interested, please check my channel out! I really think you'll like it!
i think to this day that spider-man 2‘s and wos web swinging and traversal options are absolutely the peak of movement
for me the reason why spider-man 2‘s animations don‘t seem that flashy is due to the way tobey‘s spidey moves. while yes you can see the occasionial air acrobatic he‘s pulling off he usually tries to be at his destination as fast as he can. his movies show why that is since usually whenever you see a swinging scene it evolves around him trying to save
i think sm2 (the game) encapsulated that style of swinging with you getting from a to point b if you‘ve haven‘t mastered swinging that well yet, however there is a insane skill gap in sm2 showing a newbie and a master controlling the game
a newbie will hit the walls often and slip the opportunity to catch yourself from falling with a swing. he won‘t memorize the city‘s layout yet since he still hasn‘t grasped the mechanics
while a master takes full advantage of the traversal options making it look like one of these clips you can see at the cinema of a dev doing an „insane“ level race. he memorized the city‘s layout due to him spending alot of time swinging,looping, flipping, climbing, wall sliding, wall running, pole swinging web ziping and more.
while wos takes it a little more user friendly i‘ll always argue that the learning curve of sm2 is essential for wanting to be better and be an absolute beast at moving in extremely fast pace without hitting a while once without him going for it
The three updates I want in the new one are:
1:By holding the trick button while holding a web I want to climb up the web
2:I want to be able to wall run down a building
3:As said within the video i want to beat ble to run along the ground while swinging
I bet number one is possible.
But mapped to Triangle.
We'll see if it happens to number 2! But idk about number 3... we do have fall damage, but we'll see if they solved the "ground" problem when it releases in the next 4 weeks.
One of my favorite bits about SM2 was using two webs to turn yourself into a slingshot. I forgot how fast you could go in that game until these clips. In the newest ones, I find myself avoiding getting too close to a street or roof if it means it makes spidey float.
I do appreciate the callbacks to the older games, though. "My boy lost his balloon and Spiderman didn't get it back. #JJJatHome was right! He's a menace!"
*Exaggurated swagger of a black teen intesifies*
15:22 especially
I don't know why anybody isn't mentioning this, but I love your Presentation of the things you talk about! The Animations are very well done haha!
Finally a video that summerizes all my opinions about Spider-Man PS4 in relation to PS2 covering everything I have ever thought.
Just one thing you did not mention Is that at the beginning of a new game in Spider-Man 2 for PS2 you could choose between 2 kinds of swinging mechanics, an "arcade" one, simpler, and a physics based one. I hope Marvel's Spider-Man 2 will feature a "phisics mod" for swinging.
I just want to say beenox are not that bad yes tasm and tasm2 had flaws like the cloud swinging from the first game, But to be fair these games were underdeveloped because of activision's greed, but they still managed to pull off good stuff like spider man shattered dimensions which is a fucking masterpiece and edge of time that was also underdeveloped but still had and amazing story not to mention that they are more familiar with linear level design like in shattered dimensions and edge of time so it makes sense for them to not have much experience with open world games and realistic swinging, also one great thing that I have to give them credit for: they once asked fans what character they wanted to see in tasm2 and everyone chose carnage so they added him into the game for fan service, Yes tasm and tasm 2 ARE bad games but I think you were a little rude when talking about the devs of beenox, Also shouldn't spider man web of shadows be in this video?
Hope they do this for the sequel
Ohh loop de loop physics are happening.
i re-played just cause 3 recently. cancelling the grapple and re-reeling was a much more engaging swinging experience than most spider-man games, which was only enhanced by the other movement options (parachute and wingsuit). im sure that same system could be reworked to look more like spider-man, though im not sure how that would work as i have negative one experience in game development.
idk whhy people are complaining about the autocorrect when hitting walls. If anything I enjoyed that aspect because it meant I could chill and enjoy swinging instead of having to worry about calculating wether my swinging was precise enough to not hit the buildings.
ikr like who cares about how spiderman will hit a wall beacuse you didnt swing correctly
I remember someone telling me once, “A dude can climb walls using only his bare hands and you’re concerned about the physics of his swinging?”
Glad to know I’m not the only one. 😂
Because they can't argue half the damn time. It's just deflection
I always really hated that logic. Yes, asshole, I do expect the world with dragons flying about and people shooting fire from their fingers to at least follow its own established rules; otherwise, it's just not a great piece of media.
Holy heck what is this production value? In the first 15 seconds I’ve already seen more effort than any CZcams video I’ve seen today, and I just watched a Mark Rober video.
Heres the thing in spiderman 2 you can turn off swing assist so its not really babying you
Sudden Idea: Give him the "advanced" swinging, with all the safeties off... until he puts on the symbiote. So long as post-game allows you to freely alternate, it could be a cool way to showcase the sheer power and invincibility of the symbiote, while also subtly suggesting that the suit is in control.
I like this idea
Interesting
This may sound weird but my favorite swinging mechanic is the one in Fortnite. There you have complete control of your swing, you can actually aim where you want to attach the webs. I really hope this kind of swinging mechanic to be explored more in spider man games.
Also, in web of shadows you’re able to hang onto and swing around the lamp posts
you can contol nd steer while swinging, shifting weight does so. you can also steer a bowling ball with rotation