The Sea Kayak Problem
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2023
- Sea Kayakers, we have a problem. Well, really three problems. Let's chat.
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Another problem with sea kayak is storing them. Younger adults are mainly in apartment or duplex without any storage capacity so a 17' long kayak is quite hard to keep. We have a lot of 20-30 years members in our club but they all rent the kayaks from the club because they just don't have the space to have one. Without the renting option, they wouldn't be able to practice sea kayaking.
I may be an outlier here.... but that wasn't my experience. I started off - while living in lower Manhattan in a tiny 1 bedroom - renting boats on Long Island. Then when I bought I boat which I clearly couldn't get up my stairs I stored it at my sisters house, also on LI, where it lived outdoors. I have never had an indoor space to store boats, they have always lived in my yard which isn't ideal but you do what you gotta do. But as I said, I might be an outlier.
This does imply that people have even a yard in which to store it. If you live in a city in an apartment, you might not even have someone's yard to borrow.
Its true. As I said I may be an outlier. To add to it, living in Manhattan I didn't have a car. I bought an old, used SUV specifically to carry a kayak. And the Kayak cost almost as much as the truck.
As a 52 year old new kayaker that started with a 12' rec boat and has now upgraded to a 14' touring one (and just took my first sea kayaking class!) I fit your demographic too well...
Looking from a novice perspective, sea kayaking in long boats and learning necessary skills to survive is definitely a commitment. I am fully hooked, but admit that it is much easier to get into cycling or backpacking. In today's world of instant gratification it's a difficult proposition.
The safety aspect as a deterrent to paddling is something I hadn’t considered probably because I feel like I over emphasize the safety aspect - I occasionally feel like a safety nazi - I am going to have to do a video about it. Thanks!
I'm 30 and just graduating from a rec kayak to a sea kayak. I live in coastal southern British Columbia where there is a lot of great kayaking to be found. In the past I've always found a way to scrape together the money for pricey hobby gear when I really wanted it, but space has been a barrier when it comes to sea kayaking. Many of my peers don't drive or own a vehicle which also adds to the challenge. There are a few of us younger paddlers out there, though. Thanks for making videos that do such a good job answering the questions I have about the sport!
Thanks for watching! You live in a beautiful part of the world. I spend a month paddling there. Super amazing.
I'm 37, from Canada, and currently live on the east coast. I grew up doing flatwater sprint as my introduction to kayaking; I'm obviously an outlier in how I grew up with the sport, but in my case I don't need to be sold the concept of paddling as a sport to pursue. For me, the largest barrier to being more involved in sea kayaking is that I don't own my a house, and I have moved every couple of years (usually not by choice) often to apartments without access to a yard. Storing a 14+ foot boat is not trivial, and without owning a boat, I can't casually practice skills, I can't plan trips without involving an outfitter, I can't join planned trips without significantly more expense etc. An inflatable touring SUP, as a comparison, is dramatically easier for me to store and manage, and has been the way I've been taking my paddling life, even though I acknowledge that a sea kayak is the better craft for ocean touring. When I still lived with my parents, I owned a surfski; I sold it about two years after I moved out because it was becoming so difficult to store and use. I would love to do more sea kayaking, but the logistics scream "stable homeowner with disposable income and free time", and to me that sounds pretty similar to "50+"
That's a valid assessment Rob. I too am an outlier as at 32 I made changes to my life to accommodate a kayak. I bought a cheap truck to put it under, found a place to store it for free.... But your assessment is probably a good reason that our population of participants is older. Thanks for the comment.
Bingo!
Accessibility plus affordability. I’m kayaking due to inflatable kayaks. Easy to transport, easy to store and easy to use. I’m 50+
Recently got back into paddling a long boat after about 8 years away from it. Surprised to see so much less local selection and local specialty shops have gone away. REI has almost no long boat selection anymore, sadly. Main reason for getting another long boat (Melker Ulvon LV) was fitness paddling, in addition to the joy of being on the water again (and using every ounce of effort efficiently). While I always aspired to multiday trips, I never did any, and am not particularly interested in them. I think fitness is another great angle to look at paddling from. However, there is a pretty steep learning curve and it does require quite a bit of coordination, dexterity, and familiarity with water and weather. But for the person interested in an activity that can range from serene to quite adventurous (or terrifying, depending on experience, haha), while providing the unusual upper body-focused distance workout without needing to swim, and with a nice boat that costs much less than a high-end bicycle, paddling a touring boat for 3-4 hours is hard to beat. The biggest difference for me between paddling in the early morning with no one else around, verses anything on land is the trance-like state I can get into, especially in light rain. It’s a great mental break from everyday life. Mid-50’s, btw, and started paddling in early 30’s. Unfortunately, most people aren’t going to take the time to study and practice long boat techniques. It’s kind of like long-distance bicycling: ain’t nobody got time for that these days.
Im with you on that early morning paddle in light rain…. That’s why I paddle in Alaska.
I’m gaining interest in sea kayaking, coming from a tarpon 120, now have a Cape Lookout 145 I can’t wait to land on the beach of Cape Lookout. Thanks for providing a great resource and keeping me inspired to make it out there!
A cape lookout at cape lookout! Sounds like fun, that is one of my favorite places. Watch the tides, the current there can be a pain in the A$$.
Was 77 deg F today on Long Island Sound, ocean temps about 68. Lovely day kaking with my 5 50+ year old friends.
It is better and wose than you think.
I don't know where you are getting your data, but all the kayak racks from NY to MA are full, with long waiting lists. 20 years ago, few yacht clubs offered kayak racks, now they all have them and they are all full. Towns along the water also have public racks, prices for storage have gone way up.
However, Perception used to make affordable and fun roto-molded kayaks for the entry level 30+ year olds. They have dropped their sea kayaks in favor of those sit on tops. Roto-molded still. Lots of "Fishing Kayaks" too. Folks have no sub $1500 entry sea kayak to get into the sport. Remember Perception's full line of Roto-molded sea kayaks with that fantastic foam bulkhead system?
About REI: from a store employe, "This is the only sport, short of rock climbing, where the average person can kill themselves easy." Ya know, he is right. Sit on top and standing paddleboards have a low skill entry point and an easy exit into the water and back in to the boat.
Sea Kayaks offer a 'bicycle on the water' kind of experience, but there is a learning curve. Still, there is that price point to contend with, and few sub-$1800 options. I bought my first kayak, roto-molded Perception 'Carolina' for $500 used, more than 20 years ago.
Well, there are a couple of things I am going to disagree with, but first, my data came from the ACA and the Association of Paddle sports, I posted pics of the two main reports I used in the video. Public Kayak racks are full, but not with touring boats. They are full of fishing kayaks and rec boats. I just did a trip to Maine, I am from LI. And I am currently living in PA. Ive seen those racks. They don’t have sea kayaks in them - some in Maine did, but most are rec boats.
I do remember Perceptions line, my first boat was a Perception Shadow. Loved that boat. It was $1800 new. The foam bulkheads were fantastic! Yes. There is a danger factor. Without a doubt. But a sit on top isn’t any safer than a sit in kayak - though there is perception that there is. People don’t get stuck in boats when they roll, which is a common fear among new paddlers. THe only reason a touring boat is more dangerous is that people may take them out in more dangerous weather/water without skills and knowledge. FInally, you can still buy a perception Carolina used for $500. I don’t buy that cost is keeping people from buying sea kayaks, because mountain biking is booming, and mountain bikes are expensive, and a lot of those riders are in their 20’s and 30’s. Where in LI were you paddling, that is where i learned to paddle and really miss it.
@@AdventureOtaku Stamford CT and Cos Cob. On the mainland side of the Sound
I agree with your points but wanted to add another one in. I think part of it may also be a skill/desire and financial issue as well. Recreational kayaking is more popular because it's much easier and cheaper for most people to grab whatever random pelican they see on sale at their local superstore of whatever kind and leisurely paddle down a river with their friends. Sea kayaks are far more expensive.
I barely ever see proper sea kayaks when I'm out paddling, it's almost always inflatables or rec kayaks whether that be on the great lakes near shore or going up creeks. Most times their paddle is upside down, terrible form etc. But they don't care about these things, they're out there to just have some fun and chat with a friends while floating down a river. Nothing wrong with these things of course.
Additionally, as mentioned sea kayaking requires more skill and time investment, something people may not have. Sea kayaks are narrow and enclosed, that's intimidating for your average person, they wonder how would I get out, what if I flip over etc. While education helps with this and I'll get to that, it's a non-starter for a lot of people. Developing skills like edging, paddle strokes, rolling etc all take time to learn. If all you're ever doing is socially paddling down a creek with your friend then why would you ever care about these skills. I'll add most people I see kayaking near me are not younger people and tend to lazily paddle while chatting away, so skills aren't really needed.
Paddle boarding for example is pretty cheap and easy to start off with, you can sit, kneel or try and stand. My buddy often brings his paddleboard when we hangout and always gets people to try it out and learn to use it, alongside an efoil but that's a different story. It's much easier to have someone try out a one size fits all paddle board than it is a sleek, form fitting sea kayak. Which raises another point, finding others who sea kayak. None of my friends do, so I generally paddle alongside them on paddle boards, or I go out solo most times.
Onto education, and this is where I agree with you about there not being much content out there. Finding quality sea kayaking videos is hard, they're few and far between. Pretty sure at this point I've watched every video on sea kayaking on youtube lol, not the case for whitewater, canoe expeditions or even rec kayak reviews etc. And to your point, if more people were making quality content that drew people in that would probably improve the amount of people in the sport. Additionally, education wise, there's not a ton of content out there video wise of learning all these techniques. There's definitely some good stuff, it's how I learned much of what I know, but a lot of it can also be outdated or hard to find unless you know what to look for. Also classes are not cheap either, here in Canada if I want my level 1 and 2 paddle Canada certs, which are basic skills to have, it's around 1000$ total, on top of a good sea kayak like a Delta being 2500$, throw in pfd, paddle and wetsuit or drysuit and you could be spending another 500-2500$ depending on quality.
That being aid I would say education and content is what got me into a sea kayak. I started with an inflatable since I didn't want to invest into roof racks and figured it's good enough for the local creek and shores of the great lake. I used it basically every day of the summer. But I wanted more, more performance, to hit big waves etc. So I researched and found sea kayaking and fell deeper and deeper into that hole. Bought my first sea kayak and within a month was taking rolling lessons.
In conclusion, I would say it's a combination of lack of content, lack of desire to go on some expedition, not wanting to spend thousands on gear and learning how to properly use said gear and that most people just want something fun to do for a couple hours while they chat with a friend. I doubt most people think of kayaking as a sport and more of a leisurely summer activity. Compare this to backpacking which is fairly easy to get into. Walking is a pretty standard thing, jumping to walking through forest and hills isn't a huge leap, it still requires training and investment to get good at and that's mostly building your strength and stamina. The bar to entry is very low.
One more additional thought here, is a lot of people in the modern world probably don't care much for the outdoors and would rather do something else.
Anyways, just my thoughts. Thanks for the content :)
And they are good thoughts, thanks for watching. I agree with most of it, I am doing my best on the content front! The lack of desire can be overcome by the marketing aspects I talked about. If we sell the concept that this is fun adventure it will draw more people in. The part I disagree with is the cost as barrier. and I have said this now in a couple of videos, but the cost of getting rolling in sea kayaking isn't any higher than cycling. cycling and kayaking have about the same entry point cost wise, but we see way more cyclist go from their walmart mountain bike, to a real mountain bike, to a real expensive mountain bike in a few years. We don't see those progressions in kayaking. the vast majority of people buy a rec kayak or a fishing kayak and never move on. We need to fix that. Thanks for watching and taking the time to create such a well thought out comment. Really appreciate it.
@@AdventureOtaku I wonder if it's because cycling is less location dependant and as a kid a lot of people are taught to ride a bike.
A bike you can just hop on from your house and ride wherever, you can use it for work, school etc. Kayaking requires you to live near a body of water, and generally sea kayaks are used for larger bodies of water compared to small rivers.
Storage could be another thing too, a bike you can store on a patio, underground parking, in an apartment etc. A sea kayak needs a backyard, garage or renting storage. I didn't get one until I had a garage, but I had a bike as a kid in an apartment.
@prophecy66 could be.
Them feeling a bit tippy has definitely been a concern for people joining my group, especially when it gets a bit choppy!
@@AdventureOtaku A performance high end bike dose not take up anymore room to store and transport than a cheap junk Walmart bike. I’m just getting into paddling after many years of cycling and one of the first things I noticed was just how INEXPENSIVE Kayaks are in comparison with what I have spent on my bikes. Plus the maintenance is so much higher with cycling. So for me it isn't the price of the sport- it all comes back to the SIZE of a sea kayak. I'm limited to a 12' boat both for transport and storage.
Storage and price is what inhibits most people I think . I need to get out and do more kayak camping trips and put them on my youtube channel . most of my stuff is day trips but i does give people a good sense of what exploring in a kayak is like . I love the freedom to go and paddle where you like
According to the data I gathered from the people I surveyed storage was on the list but price wasn’t or was pretty far down the list. I think thats because being older they were in better shape financially.
Call me selfish, but I like that a neat sport says obscure. I'm 69 and can remember backpacking as a boy on gorgeous empty trails. True solitude. No radios, no bros, no 4wd BS. After the 70's trails filled up, bears became a problem in the high country - hint - they were not before the masses appeared. Are we afraid the ability to get a good kayak will go away?
I get that selfishness…and I am right there with you. I am afraid that the ability to get a good kayak will go away. If there is no one buying them - or more accurately if it isn’t cost effective, no one will manufacture them. We already see this in kayak specific gear. The big dry bag manufacturers have way more options for backpackers than kayakers. Thanks for watching!
Selfish or not I have to agree. Kayaking here in Scotland was better in the '80s and '90s. I could paddle for a week or two and not see another kayak. Commercially-run groups with 6 or more paddlers camping at places that can really only accommodate one or two has put much more pressure on the environment. Equipment always used to be a more DIY thing and sea kayaks last a very long time.
I'm a +50 avid outdoorsman / camper / backpacker. I got into kayaking because of COVID specifically. It was a complete accident. Why ?
1. The lockdowns forced people to think outside of city life: people viewed camping as the end-around the lockdowns: that's a good thing. The bad news were the hoards of newbies showing up en masse without any idea of what it takes to camp: poor eqeuipment, improper clothing, litter, music, powerboats, minimal skill sets. It maybe 28 C during the day, but it is not uncommon for night time temperatures to drop under the double-digit mark during June and August in Central and Northern Ontario.
2. Busloads now show up to provincial parks. Algonquin Park had to close several times this past year because the overall park capacity was reached. This is now common across many parks.
3. Good luck trying to book a campsite these days. Provincial Park booking sites routinely crash due to the the volume of on-line traffic. The days of simply pulling up to a Park and buying your camp tickets for the day are over.
4. The "selfie" has become far more important than to "experience" of Wild Canada Most people only go into the first couple of km's and stop. It's important to go beyond the 3-5 km where the crowds thin out. Developing skills sets, and learning resiliency takes time: most people are looking to be "entertained" rather than learning about the land, and wildlife.
5. Kayaking provides the opportunity to explore further into the wilds and waterways. The people you meet tend to be of a similar mindset and skill set which makes things much more pleasant. I do enjoy canoeing because it does provide more opportunity to carry more gear. However, you sacrifice distance and time. There is no such thing as solutions only trade offs.
Some additional points:
6. Every year I go to the Outdoor Show here in Toronto. SUP's now dominate over canoes and kayaks. Likewise, many of these Outdoor Shows have really morphed into "Travel and Destination" shows.
7. Lack of overall fitness is a problem for many individuals. I train 12 months are year in support of my outdoor adventures. Cross-fitters, ex-military, EMS, Hunters and Anglers are good candidates for kayaking.
Peace.
This is a great comment, and I appreciate it. Im going to respond to your points with some updates. Keeping in mind my info is based on numbers in the US not the Canada.
1. Yes, the outdoors were overrun by people during covid, I was working for REI at the time, and we initially shut down and then a few weeks later had to ramp things up. But as you said these folks brought zero skills or understanding of LNT.... On the money.
2. You may be seeing busloads of people showing up in Parks, but the numbers in the US (and I suspect the same will follow in Canada) have dropped significantly. Only about 10% of people who were new to the outdoors during covid continue to use it for recreation. Still a 10% jump is a lot.
3. Similar, in the US most campsites during prime season are booked, but the bigger problem is how many booked campsites never get occupied and the systems in place can't adjust for that. That to me is really upsetting. That people who want to get active in the outdoors can't because someone booked a site they won't end up using.
4. In reality it is far less than 3-5k... we used to call them "rebook hikers" people who never go much further than the parking lot.
5. TOTALLY AGREE! This is why I transitioned from backpacking to kayaking. You get further out, easier and see fewer people along the way.
6. I know from the data I was reading for this video that SUP has not only peaked, but is declining in use. So you may not see that for much longer. I think if you went to a similar show in the US you would be inundated by fishing kayaks which is currently the fastest growing segment in paddle sports.
7. I see this every day, and every time I teach. For myself at 56 I have to work harder every year to stay in the same shape. And every student I work with needs to be stronger (with better mobility) to do the things they want to do.
Excellent comment. Thanks!
I'm getting into sea kayaking and I'm 59. I'm definitely part of that problem. On the other hand I already have 3 early teens keen for an intro this summer, looking for an overnighter and maybe fit in some fishing.
You aren't a part of the problem, at most you are a symptom. But you are spreading the love! Let me know if you need any help.
I'm 48 and just bought my first kayak (CD Stratus 18); honestly, like a lot of other people have said, the issue for me was entirely one of resources. It's an expensive hobby. I first kayaked when I was 20 or 21 in college and really liked it, but I didn't manage to buy a house (and thus have access to a garage, or any remotely acceptable storage option) until I was well into my 40s, and seldom had a car which would've been appropriate for transporting a kayak; other than a few years with a (very unreliable) VW, I almost never had something I could've realistically put a rack on. A few years ago I happened to pick up an old Mazda to use as a winter car and general rat rod, which allowed me to finally surmount that hurdle, but even the dang rack wasn't cheap, costing by itself, in a single swoop, far more than I ever put into decades of, e.g., basketball, baseball or tennis (apart from maybe the b-ball shoes). Actually, comically, in total it cost about the same as the kevlar kayak and CF paddle I bought, combined. Then all of the associated gear you need? Make no mistake, I _wanted_ to participate, I knew from the first time I got in one over a quarter century ago that it was a hobby I would enjoy, but getting to a place where I could actually sustain it took forever, personally speaking. It's always going to be a severely limiting factor; the enthusiast needs to be reasonably well-established, and with all of the other competing economic pressures on people today, the pool of possible participants doesn't seem likely to ever be particularly deep. But that's fine, half the reason for the appeal is the solitude and opportunity to get away from people, so to me this feature rather than a bug, so to speak.
Im not trying to negate those resources challenges, not at all. And has been said a number of times in the comments (not on this video, I don’t think) I am an outlier, in that I have built my lifestyle around kayaking, which as I type it, explains (and for a normal human, negates) what I am about to say. I bought my first kayak in 1998 (maybe a little earlier) a few months after buying a 1991 Isuzu trooper - to be used only to move the kayak. the boat was a few hundred less than the truck. At the time I lived in lower manhattan and the boat lived in a friends yard on LI. I have never had reliable indoor storage for a boat. Yes, this sport is more expensive than team sports - my parents would probably disagree, as I grew up an ice hockey goalie - but compared to other adventure sports, I don’t think it is. Ive said this a few times in these comments, look at mountain biking. Bikes are $2k to $7k and I know twenty-something’s with 3 and 4 bikes! But I do agree the appeal is the solitude. But too much solitude (ie, not enough people paddling, and we wont be able to get boats, or paddles….
I'll personally attest to your second point. In late 2022 I was personally looking for a sea kayak for a much awaited return to the sport. As Rec kayaks were a cherished part of my childhood.
In my mid-30's and in an area of the Mid-Atlantic that has access to both the coast and abundant rivers, I very much wanted a sea kayak. REI was my first stop. Why not, they outfitted half of my hiking and camping trips through the years.
Wow was that the wrong place to go. Zero stock approaching what I wanted. Limited knowledge in the store. And not much in the way of equipment I wanted to buy for it either.
I wound up finding a brand I enjoyed on line, then tracking down a local outfitter 3 hours away and having to put in a custom order.
I did get the Eddyline Fathom I wanted. Which was a challenge on the east coast. But, it was only after finding a passionate small business that saw the value in the same product I was after. REI was a waste in this regard. I still get camping gear there, but I'm not going there for kayaking.
On your third point however, this channel was responsible for my first kayaking trip last fall. I started watching while I was shopping, and you certainly convinced me to try a kayak trip. It was wonderful advice and a great experience. Transitioning from camping/hiking to camping/kayaking was both easy and something I'll do more of. But, you're right. It's not content I see often.
Hey, thanks for watching, sorry REI let you down - but equally not surprised - and glad you had a good trip. This made my night. Thanks again.
Some may assume these are limited to use on coastal waters, most kayakers don’t live near coasts but can we say touring kayaks have the same problems - maybe. Other CZcams channels have tried to communicate the differences (Ken Whiting for example) but perhaps the best message to the younger crowds is getting lost in the confusion. If a person wants to take multi-day trips, learning that kayaks with two bulkheads and big hatches for gear are needed, without having the extra rocker and hull design to handle ocean waves. If touring kayaks have same problems, then that’s really serious because it’s those kayaks that people need (regardless of age) for multi day camping trips, coastal or not. But then, someone serious about multi day touring wants to feel safe doing it too. I live in Missouri, far as you can get from coasts, and I can’t get touring safety courses near by. Finally signed up for one available this summer, waited for months, only to have it cancelled because not enough people signed up. So, perhaps that’s an indicator that these problems are also touring kayak problems too.
So for starters, I use the terms touring kayak and sea kayak pretty interchangeably. You can use any kayak in the ocean, but as you said if it has bulkheads and large hatches it can be used for multiday. And I think declaring that sort of classification distinction is as you said, confusing, and it is certainly intimidating. My goal, the point of this channel is to get people outside, and on the water. I would rather you do it in a long skinny boat because it will perform better, and I want you to do it safely, but beyond that paddle what you want and call it what you want. Someone else commented on the lack of a welcoming environment created by the "old guard" of kayaking and this I think falls into that category. Thanks for a great comment.
Its really interesting that you bring this up. As a fairly new kayaker I have bin surprised at the somewhat unexpected age span, and thought it to be a local phenomena. (I am located in Sweden) but clearly it is not.
Unfortunately I don't think it is. Welcome to the sport!
Totally agree with everything here. Great video. I am a graphic novelist currently working on a sea kayaking centered comic book story. Also work at urban kayaks in Chicago. Great to see this content:)
Thanks for watching. Would love to see the graphic novel
Sea kayaking has never been a sport/activity for the "masses", and expecting that to change is just completely unrealistic. There's way too many factors preventing that, and most of them have already been mentioned in this thread.
In case you haven't noticed, the field of leisure activities is so fragmented these days that this is pretty much the same discussion you'll find everywhere you look. How can we get more people into sea kayaking? How about archery? Chess? Slalom skateboarding? Bird watching?
Everyone wants more people, younger people, so the hobby/sport/activity in question will stay alive or even grow, leading (among other things) to more business opportunities and more societal acceptance. But it's getting harder and harder to reach a position like that. The competition is too fierce and people have limited resources to invest in their free time.
It seems to me that the recipe for popularity these days when it comes to leisure activities is to have as many things from the following list as possible:
- Looks great visually on social media (particularly with some embellishments)
- Has a low learning curve to reach a basic skill level
- Allows you to "buy the look"
- Is built on something that almost everyone has a connection to from their childhood (riding a bike, walking, climbing, kicking or throwing)
- Projects an image of adventure but not actual mortal danger
So... no wonder the whole world seems to be backpacking or mountain biking right now. They both have ALL of those. The perfect hobbies for the social media age.
I suspect, though, that while sea kayaking can be very photogenic in the right environment, it often looks flat out crazy, frightening and reckless to outsiders. You're in open water, attached to a tiny, tippy death trap, at the mercy of waves, wind and sharks. The subset of people who find that kind of thing inviting is not that large.
What's more, your selfie angles are limited to say the least, you're wearing a neon PFD instead of a trendy Patagonia sweater, and you can't really take your cute dog with you.
I don’t necessarily want it to be a sport for the masses. But I would like to think that it will still exist in 20 years. I’d like our average age to 40, instead of 55.
As a new 40 year old Kayaker, I think there is definitely a gap in information to newer would be kayakers. I had to buy a the wrong boat before I figured out the right boat for me. Fewer and fewer people own their own homes these days because of rising housing costs and I think that is adding to the Transportation and storage problem for the longer boats. Things like the Pakayak and the skin of frame portables are also solutions you have to be educated on to know they exist but they are still often the more expensive option…
Yes. I would like for people to take the time to learn a bit more before they buy their first boat, but it is so hard when most places don’t offer quality boats for rentals.
after buying a larger touring kayak, I still use my rec kayak and have great fun in it. No reason not to. Have fun on both.
And I totally agree... My point was that sea kayaking participation isn't growing, and a lot of aging sea kayakers will eventually not be able to sea kayak anymore. I just don't want to see the sport disappear.
Great post! Thanks
Thank you! Thanks for watching.
@@AdventureOtaku I totally agree with this video. I’m a member of the Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club. We keep our membership dues very low - probably the lowest in the nation : $175 p/year. $100 for 18-22 y/o and $30 for 12-17 y/o. Membership includes everything you need to sea kayak. He also have a youth division called the Hudson River Riders (HRR). They hold free public kayaking in the summer on Wednesdays and Thursdays. Youth start off with rec kayaks then from there we encourage them to get more involved to learn sea kayaking with us. Our kayak club promotes openness to sea kayaking heavily. We try and break down the “elitist” stigma of sea kayaking. We make it affordable and provide all the equipment and training needed.
That’s awesome. I love that you are working to get youth into sea kayaks. I give talks with paddling clubs, and you aren’t that far from me. Reach out if it is something you would like to arrange. Brett@adventureotaku.com
I’m 52 the wife and I started truly kayaking 2 years ago with pungo 12’s. We live on a river and have multiple rivers to choose from within a couple hours drive or less. We want to do more kayaking on the great lakes which should require sea kayaks but $5k pretty much starting for a pair of non roto molded sea kayaks that would be destroyed pretty quick on rivers isn’t logical. We are 2.5 hours to southern Lake Michigan which is boring and 3.5 to Erie. Most people have to travel to use a sea kayak so a 12’ roto makes more sense. If you start running the numbers for camping gear or hotels, travel expenses, a pair of rec and a pair of sea kayaks you’re at $10k and can be well over. Most younger couples won’t spend that kind of money on something they probably won’t use that often and the resale value is around 40% if they want to upgrade. As far as REI we have one an hour away but I personally have never met a person that will do business with them because they are so political.
You glossed over the most important part of your comment. The resale is around 40%! Buy your first touring boats used! I just did a video about this. There are also great rotomolded sea kayaks that make a first touring boat option more attainable. And while there is of course depreciation on selling a boat used, they dont really continue to depreciate. So if you buy a boat used, you can probably sell it a year or two later for what you paid, if you decide to transition to something else. There are a lot of options. Im not saying it isn’t an expensive sport, but cycling can be as or more expensive and cycling is booming with younger people. I know people in their late 20’s early 30’s who have multiple bikes with values in $2k to $5k range.
Lol, yeah that commercial got me.....Wouldn't life be grand if it were that simple.
This type of kayaking is more of a state of mind kind of experience, sand pipers running along the shore, sunbathing turtles, herons hunting for food....Hell I still get excited when I see a large group of mussels on the bottom of a river bed. Hard to capture in a commercial. Your vid's are spot on, Please keep up the great work.
Thanks, Ill do my best.
You are right. It is a marketing problem but it is also a training problem, sort of. You already know about my frustration when I went looking to find Sea Kayak training. And I live in a place where long boats are relatively plentiful.
I used to teach SCUBA. In comparison, training for kayaking seems to me much more casual but that may be appropriate.
As a SCUBA instructor I was a walking talking advertisement for the equipment and programs sold by the shop I worked for. All of the equipment I used was available for purchase. Every class imparted not only the knowledge and skills the students needed for the level they were training for but all sorts of teasers, encouragement and excitement for the things that were available if they took training beyond the level they were at.
It worked on me. I took training all the way up to becoming an instructor where I then hooked the next batch of divers, Dive Masters, and instructors into the sport.
Of course SCUBA has the advantage that you can’t go diving without a certification except under the supervision of an instructor. Whereas anyone can buy, rent, or borrow a kayak and go paddling. The latter may never result in a paddler looking for more than that.
In contrast to my SCUBA experiences, I took an intro to sea kayaking class. Since it was just my son and I the instructor covered skills a bit beyond the typical intro class around here.
If that instructor had talked about or demonstrated (or marketed) a next level class or some of the things we could learn and do beyond those basics it would be easier for his students to see themselves doing those things.
Of course I want more because I watch CZcams channels like Adventure Otaku and several others but I still feel like it’s harder than it should be to keep progressing in training and practice.
Bottom line is no one in the kayaking community is marketing to me beyond a few semi-functional websites that I have to search for. It seems like it’s all on me to go out and figure it out. I suppose some might argue that is as it should be.
I have a couple of things that I would add.
For me the Scuba comparison doesn’t work, because most people don’t even realize they should take a kayaking lesson. That is the big challenge I face, and I think we face as a community. It is hard to convince people there is more to moving a kayak than putting a paddle in the water and pulling it past you. But I can’t think of a sport - maybe rock climbing- that screams you must get instruction more than scuba.
Additionally, when I worked for REI we had people in stores - people who are trained to sell things - pitching the idea of classes. Then the people they convince to take a class came to me to learn to kayak, and in that class we talk about the other two classes we offered. Advanced strokes and rescues. Those classes never filled up.
There just isn’t the perception that you need to take classes. I think you are the outlier in that you wanted classes!
Of course, this probably varies by region and water types people are paddling on. But if more people wanted classes, you would have no problem finding them. I have 3000+ followers. I get 30,000 views a month. I travel to teach people. And I can’t fill my calendar with students. I wish I could.
Im 41, love the outdoors, lakes, boating, fishing etc. Have always liked padding. A year ago I got a 10 foot sit inside fishing kayak for my birthday. Using it confirmed my love of padding, and the exercise benefits, however it didn't take long to realize I wanted to be able to paddle faster, further efficiently therefore a 10ft fishing kayak wasn't my boat. A touring or sea kayak became my next goal. Biggest problem is the lack of kayaking retailers to see a good selection in person. I purchased a 14ft Wilderness kayak online but refused delivery upon finding cracks. The other issue after speaking with my local dealer, ordering a specific Kayak from the manufacturer is a very very aggravating and lengthy process. So, here I sit over a year later, still hoping to find a sea kayak that I want in stock at my local dealer.
Glad you are making an attempt at transitioning. Yeah, shipping of kayaks is problematic. When I worked for REI I saw A LOT of boats come in damaged. Sorry you are experiencing that first hand. Good luck!
I recently attended a sea kayak symposium. I'm 55, and i was among the younger people there. I think there were a couple of people in their late 40s, and one who had just turned 50. The rest were in our 50s and 60s, and there were more than a few attendees who were well into their 70s. (It was cool to see a nearly 80 year old woman effortlessly rolling in the surf)! But it was a bit disconcerting. It's rather like the way I feel when I visit a church and see nothing but gray hair. If I'm not a relative of elder in the community, something is amiss.
Agreed, and my goal is to get more, younger people, paddling. And this case younger is under 50.
38 yo, a 5yo and a 3yo and my wife. We rent 2 tandems 2-4 times a year for mostly river floats and an inland lake sometimes. But we live in Michigan, i would love to go out on the great lakes amd rivers. What do i do?? Buy a 14-16' tandem for rivers and just wait to till the kids can have their own? Then get sea kayaks to go out on the Great Lakes? I would love any advice, im having hard time finding any yhat isn't related to fishing kayaks 😂.
Main question would be, can a 17' sea kayl do well on a river? I alway have a 14' tandem with kids anyways..
Thank you so much.
Depending on the river and the 17 foot sea kayak… but probably not. Touring kayaks tend to be more fragile, and dont turn as well. Yes, most of the market is aimed at rec kayaks, and fishing kayak. If I were you I would keep the tandems for the kids and buy yourself a nice used touring kayak. Craigslist/facebook marketplace.
Honest to goodness as a 32 year old the reason that sea kayaking is becoming less popular with younger people is because of how expensive the cost of entry is. Just a BOAT even starting pricing and the used middle tier… we are talking about $800 up to $3000+ for the brand new high performance Kevlar and carbon fiber options add to that you need a good paddle good PFD, safety gear drysuit/wetsuit among other things and that is a very high price tag for someone to try something they may decide they don’t like. The economy is also a factor… folks in their 20’s (taking inflation into account) are making significantly less than their parents or grandparents made when they were their age. Less disposable income and less free time means people are typically less likely to spend money on expensive equipment to take long trips and be away from work or family.
The economy is also largely to blame for the massive price hike in boats and equipment too.
Yeah…but that isn’t stopping young mountain bikers. I know 25 year old mountain bikers with multiple $2k, $4k and $6k mountain bikes.
@@AdventureOtaku I can’t personally speak for people in their 20’s that can afford to buy anything between $2k-$6k outright.
If they do own something like that it is more often than not financed.
I’m in my own little world echo chamber myself though I’m a trades guys, no college degree and everyone I know is like that too. Even the guys I know that did go to college aren’t really making much more than me if they are making more than me at all. If you see young 20 something year olds REGULARLY with 2k-6k dollar bikes idk what to tell you. I myself do not see that very often at all. Honestly even your Delta kayak even though it’s gauged as the middle higher end is out of the price range I can entertain for (at the end of the day) a toy. An implement at my disposal for pure enjoyment. My budget is more solidly in the W.S Tempest ballpark. Maybe even the top-end. The max I can personally go on a boat would be 2 grand. If I want Delta/NDK/P&H type performance I am forced to go to the used market. Given your role as an outdoor activity instructor I think it’s more likely that you are probably in your own echo chamber consisting of people who purchasing higher end sports and outdoor equipment that the average person typically will not… like 2k-6k dollar kayaks…..heck my first CAR was $1800. Having something over 2k without even a motor seems a little wild to me but that’s just my subjective position.
I know a lot of mountain bikers…. They have fancy bikes.
Reminds me of the T-shirt: "I'm a beer drinker with a kayaking problem."
Yeah...I have a big kayaking problem.
@@AdventureOtaku There has got to be some support group out there somewhere where you can make those sorts of tearful confessions.
There is. It’s called a whiskey on the rocks.
As a 25 paddler and former instructor, remember that sea kayaking was only popularized about 40-50 years ago. It has been declining since the mid 2k's IMO. There will always be a pelagic few and there you will find me...
Well, sea kayaking may have had a surge 40-50 years ago, but don’t forget, the original kayakers were sea kayakers. The Inuit and the Greenlanders started it all, and they were sea kayakers.
Oh yes, I know the history. I even built some of those skinny rolling boats and did the G-stick for a couple years. Happy with my Brit boats now. @@AdventureOtaku
I kayaked 70 miles down the Schuylkill River over Labor Day weekend.
It was a blast
Sounds like fun!
@@AdventureOtaku it was for me.. but my buddy who went in a canoe didn’t have as much fun for the first day and a half.. it felt like he spent more time pulling his canoe though the shallows than paddling. But I had a blast as long as I have 4” of water or so I’m good to go lol
Yeah, that sounds like a hiking trip for him… a hiking trip with wet feet.
Could you please post a link to The Arctic Cowboys? I'm having trouble finding them.
here ya go - www.thearcticcowboys.com
All great points Brett. I would like to add to your list a few other points I have watched over the years.
The average age is high numerically, due to a couple of factors. The economic factors being a barrier due to the gear intensive nature of Sea Kayaking is a big one. But, it has been historically speaking a unwelcoming atmosphere to new comers. The dogmatic ideology of some of the elder statesman of the sport is off-putting to someone getting into the sport. Couple that with a societal risk aversion that only seems to be getting more prevalent and you have a recipe for decline. Minority groups and female paddlers are often looked at as inferior by the old salts of kayaking and that is a major problem. The dogma often rears its ugly head on social media in the form of safety shaming. I was subjected to that early in my paddling career and was labeled as reckless and promoting unsafe behavior by a couple of "old school" paddlers who chose to threaten me anonymously. I defiantly gave them them the middle finger by continuing what I was doing and sharing it every chance I could. It is hard to imagine getting into this sport as a minority or as a female, but I have friends that are and willing to tell their stories of the invisible barriers in the sport.
The good news is that there has been progress in breaking these barriers. The teaching aspect is changing by becoming more inclusive as well. The sport can't grow unless you have highly skilled ambassadors that shine a light on what it has to offer with a positive and inclusive mindset. You are doing great with your videos and I have to believe that is having a positive impact.
Thanks Joey. I hadn't thought of the aspect of the "old dogs" not creating a welcoming environment (excuse me while I slide into outdoor educator speak) and I experienced it too, and sometimes still do as I paddle a boat with a rudder and "they" just don't like that!
In terms of the economic factors being a barrier, then how do so many 20 something mountain bikers have $6k mountain bikes? I frequently look at cycling as a culture that does it right - as I am not really in that culture I may be wrong - but I feel like so many mountain bikers start with $400-$600 mountain bikes (similar in cost to a rec kayak) but 2 or 3 years later are riding insanely expensive bikes. Cycling also has better demographics in terms of gender and race. How are they doing it?
@@AdventureOtaku , we do think alike! I had forgotten about mountian biking, a sport I am also getting into. EXPENSIVE!!! The culture is different and inviting. I've noticed a big difference between the MTB scene and Sea Kayaking. I would say that it has changed my approach to the sport for the better.
I remember that commercial.. I almost bought an ExTera because of that commercial
ME TOO!
I think a problem with the transitioning from the smaller rec boats to the longer touring boats is that besides being a lot more expensive, the length of the boats is a big drawback to a lot of people. Transporting and storing them can be intimidating. The composite boats are usually more fragile too i think. Also a lot of rec paddlers don't know how to roll or even maybe self rescue and that can be a limiting factor too, and the touring boats are narrower and therefore "tippier". The majority of rec kayakers also don't have dry suits and again, that can be intimidating. Just my thoughts....
Check out the follow up video to this - I discuss many of the things you mention. It’s called Tips for new (older) paddlers and was just like a month ago.
Thanks! Will so! @@AdventureOtaku
I've been seeing that tendency for years. I remember going to a group paddling event where I was the youngest person by far, and I was 40 then.
I see it as more as an outdoor progression/evolution problem. Without being exposed to organized outdoor activities as youths, people come across different outdoor activities more erratically.
Dayhiking can be accomplished with a book bag some sneakers and a bottle of water. Dayhike more, and you'll gradually add gear. Dayhiking tends to be a gateway to backpacking. Most of the people I backpack with dayhiked for several years before they decided to try more. And most dayhikers never develop into backpackers. Some get hooked sooner, but most won't be backpacking before they're 30. An advantage backpacking has over other activities is that you don't need as much location specific gear like a canoe, whitewater kayak or sea kayak to be used in most areas.
Cycling has a similar path, but has higher costs, transport and storage barring entry. Most don't have the discretionary income to buy a decent road bike or mountain bike until they're in their 30's. That's why most touring cyclist are over 40.
Paddling has an even later adoption phase. Your average person that got started in their first real job then gets their first real place away from their parents to live isn't going to have a place to store a sea kayak or afford one until they hit their 30s.
The lack of other paddlers is a self-perpetuating cycle as most new paddlers won't paddle alone or at least prefer to paddle socially. So they probably won't even try it.
Marketing might help, but I think grass roots groups have to be there for people to be able to try it. But there aren't enough groups....and as you noted most are over 50. How do you get those 30 somethings to want to go hang out with 50 somethings? And if you got enough 30 somethings involved, more 20 somethings would start earlier.
I see this trend happening in all of the ACA clubs around here. Membership is aging, and they're not attracting enough younger members. Meanwhile, the entire population is aging since people aren't having as many kids if they're having them at all.
The group that stands to gain the most from selling more kayaks are the people that sell kayaks. It used to be that there would be at least one paddle shop around in an area with 500k people. The shops would host events and let people try out the new boats. With the advent of internet retail, fewer shops are around, and the shops that do remain have less inventory. It's not easy to get people to pony up the money for a sea kayak sight unseen, nor should they.
I agree with everything you said, but want to expand on one idea. Mountain biking as a community does it really well. Lots of people start on inexpensive mountain bikes, and then a few years later they are riding $4k-$6k mountain bikes. Very few rec kayakers are moving up to sea kayaks. And even if the cyclists are doing it at 30 or 35 that is way younger than the 50 year olds (or higher) that we are seeing in kayaking.
@@AdventureOtaku I hadn't seen that with mountain bikes. It seems to have fallen off a bit over the last 20 years, but COVID might have yielded an increase (I was going to say "spike" or "boost", then caught myself.)
I can't think of what might alter the current trajectory other than a swarm of paddling evangelists sitting by the water with several kayaks handy, paired with the time, desire and ability to get paddlers started.
As an actual paddler with a paddling group, I find lots of people wanting to try paddling that don't have any equipment or ability to transport it.
Every now and then, I'll step up and loan a boat, paddle and PFD out, but that means my day will be spent giving a free paddling lesson and not doing the paddling I want to do. To top it off, there's little expression of gratitude for my equipment, time and effort. I'm not looking for a card or flower basket, but it would be nice to get a thank you. These people act like I'm in the business of free kayak gear and training.
I think im the evangelist.... I just need a bunch of boats.
@@AdventureOtaku or some apostles...
Seems like some boat dealers could arrange some demo boats for your use.
The "credit boat rental towards purchase" model doesn't appear to be as effective as it should be.
Some colleges used to have rec clubs with equipment too. Since my last time in grad school Bill Clinton was in office, I can't vouch for that.
A lot of colleges still do, which is a good thing. The University my wife used to work for had a large and very active outdoor program that ran trips and did education. Super great program.
I actually think you have missed it altogether. I think the disconnect is connecting rec kayak and sea kayaks. How many people with a sea kayak started with a rec kayak? Zero of my paddling partners started in a rec kayak. We were all backpackers/climbers first, not rec kayakers. Sea kayaking is the performance end of rec kayaking, but the customers for each have always been very different: rec kayakers don’t aspire to be sea kayakers; backpackers aspire to be sea kayakers. If Sea Kayaking is going to boom, it will be from increasing participants from the core community of backpacking. Rec kayaking/SUP is simply something different, as is fishing. Test my theory: who backpacked before sea kayaking and who rec kayaked?
As an instructor for the last 10 years, I would say roughly half came from rec kayaking. At least that is my observation. A lot come from whitewater as well. I have seen a far amount of backpackers coming for skills training in order to take their camping pursuits to the water.
The number I would like tro see is the attrition rate from Rec to Sea kayaking or Kayak Touring. Those numbers would be very interesting.
@TurningPointBoatworks agreed, I would like to see those numbers. I see more backpackers (with aging knees) moving to kayak touring than I see rec kayakers but that may be an aspect of NOLS. NOLS migrates a lot of backpackers to kayaking, as they do courses that have both disciplines
It is a valid point. I was a backpacker before I was a sea kayaker. BUT I do have students who were rec kayakers. But I think you are right there are a lot of backpackers who become sea kayakers.
I’m a former cyclist that got off the roads as traffic got worse. Got into rec kayaking on a sit on top, and then found a used Tsunami 145 for sale. That first paddle in a sit inside kayak changed me forever.
@Boilermaker92 THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING! Thank you!
Have you checked out Beau Miles and his paddle from mainland Australia across Bass strait to Tasmania. Epic.
I have, I think that video is the closest depiction of what a sea kayaking trip is really like. He is an excellent film maker. (And has an excellent crew!)
31 UK, the blocker for me was space and affordability. I didn’t have space in my rented apartment for anything except an inflatable. I only recently got enough space to put a kayak in my yard.
But in an ideal situation I’d need a garage, proper roof racks and a larger car for transporting it.
Backpacking is just a lot more accessible to a younger, mostly city dwelling crowd.
I agree with all those things, but it doesn’t mean you can’t make it work. My boats have always lived outside. And I drove 3, 17 foot touring kayaks across North America to Alaska on the roof of a 4 door Toyota Yaris. Which is tiny. So you can make just about anything work….But I hear what you’re saying.
I'm based out of Vancouver BC, and I'm not seeing this problem here. Maybe it's a different crowd, and we've got a really robust sea kayaking guides association, as well as it probably being our largest rental market for ocean rental, maybe alongside paddleboards, but it's right up there. I see very few rec kayaks on the ocean to be honest. It also could be that we've built a large amount of kayaking brands that built a base in this area. We've got Seaward, had Necky, have Nimbus Paddles and had their kayaks, and Werner is in Washington right near by, so maybe that plays a factor as well.
Having paddled in BC I can say you are right. The BC coast, the San Juan’s, the Inside Passage… you live in the Yosemite of sea kayaking. I don’t know if those companies are there because of the crowd/environment, or the other way around. great paddling though.
Im in the UK and have only been paddling just under a year. From what i see, there isn't much done to promote the sport to adrenaline junkies like me. I got into it because i saw a random surfing video and thought it was cool AF, but on doing some research I found very little on learning to do it. I even chose my boat (Dagger Stratos 16.5l) based on wanting to surf and rockgarden but Daggers promotional material wasnt that great. My point is , if more was done to promote this kinda thing, I think more younger people would be tempted by it....Akin to the whitewater content on youtube. Just my 2 pence . Thanks for the content .
and that's what I am saying in terms of marketing. It's not done well, as you pointed out, not even by the manufacturers of the very boats we are paddling!
I would say it’s not just REI. There aren’t any good sporting goods stores focusing on padding. You have to find a the two or three local stores that focus on padding to find the gear you NEED to go kayak touring
Agreed, but REI is the leader in the outdoor market, and do a great job with cycling and hiking and backpacking. But are blowing it on paddling.
How much costs a sea kayak starter pack comparing to a backpacking starter pack?! The biggest problem is logistics ( storage and transport) and affordability.
Storage and transport is definitely a challenge - that I solved by never taking it off the roof of my van. But comparing the two is an interesting question…. Perhaps a video.
I fell into sea kayaking due to being 30 and not wanting to do extreme sports anymore, my club also skews older.
It’s a sport which is gentle, not adrenaline based and focused on touring which has a lower impact on the body.
It also requires years of skill and knowledge, probably progressing from previous water sports.
And money, lots of money.
The only thing I will disagree with is the money. Lots of money. Yes, it is more expensive to get started than backpacking… but long run, you will go through 2 or 3 backpacks before you replace your boat - and boats are easier to sell than backpacks. But if you compare to cycling? Kayaking is way less expensive than cycling.
30 and just got on. Love the videos
Thanks for watching.
After reading through a lot of the posts here I agree with one of your comments- yes, you are definitely a outlier. I think most outdoor sport enthusiast choose activities that fit within their lifestyles. It doesn't rule their lifestyle. I don't feel the cost is necessarily the barrier for some folks but the size of a sea touring kayak is.
Thanks for sharing!
Sea kayaking movie. Cockleshell heroes.
Get to work on that for me.
Same with surfski, which is similar to kayak. At the Gorge downwind registration even back in 2018, 81% of participant are age 40 and above. See something similar in road biking. Mountain biking is not as bad. For one thing, these sports are expensive. Good bike, good surfski cost over $3k.
I am sure cost is part of it, but I see a lot of 20 something/30 something’s on $4k mountain bikes. Somehow they are making it happen.
Sea kayaking requires an initial investment outside the scope most young people. It hits a niche and maybe this age group is the niche that will keep it going. I’ve just started again and I’m loving it but there’s no way I could have afforded one in my 20s and no way I had the time in my 30s. I guess I’m a low bar starter too. My ORU Bay ST is 12 feet but at least it will take a spray skirt so rolls are possible. It might be suboptimal but it does the job of letting me enjoy the coastline where ai live and it fits in my little house. The pricing, I think, is the major issue. The exercise is also either light or endurance. Both of which are more appealing to an adult crowd. Look on the bright side; a lot of us in our late forties and up want to stay fit and avoid injuries and have a little bit of money saved up for that sort of thing. It’s not a small pool to draw from. Where I live everyone wants to go fishing. They keep trying to convince me to fish in my little kayak. That’s not my thing. I want to paddle around and look at the sea and the coastline and find a little inner peace. Anywho, I’m enjoying your channel. Stay positive. Getting out is the only way to survive the madness!
I agree that sea kayaking is very niche. no debate there. But I think there are plenty of people in their 20's who can afford it, and you need look no further than mountain biking. Mountain bikes are crazy expensive and I know many 20-somethings with multiple 5k mountain bikes.
I for one, fall into that category of 50-something Hiker who wanted to paddle....and I wanted to Sea Kayak especially, not Rec. It seemed to me that Rec is not "serious" kayaking and a Rec kayak is not for Coastal waters. Since I live on Van Isle, Coastal waters are my backyard. It only took one paddling session on the Sea to get me hooked.
This issue of attracting younger participants affects my other hobby of motorcycling as well. Demographics of the Aging Biker are real and most new riders aren't buying the big old cruisers anymore. Attracting new young riders is a challenge, much like attracting new paddlers to Sea Kayaking.
I also agree with the storage issue mentioned in another comment. I have to store my boat on my car as my building has no storage space for a 15' boat. This is an issue with any big piece of adventure equipment. I have to keep my Mtn Bike IN my apartment even.
Keep up the good work Brett. I just started my paddling journey and I have watched all your content. Leanred alot and you have helped make me more confident and comfortable on the waves. Thanks a bunch.
I think that you are an outlier, not because you are 50, OR because you started in a Sea Kayak. I think it is because of where you live. I have no data, but I would bet in the PNW, Vancouver/BC and Alaska, most new kayakers are sea kayakers…. But that is a hunch and not based on anything real. Thanks for watching!
Salut, un film qui ne traite pas du kayak mais sans sert comme support, "comme un avion" de Bruno Podalydes. Pour ma part, je suis venue au Kayak de mer par la contrainte. Beaucoup de régate sur des habitables et rêveries de grand voyages circumnavigation "Moitessier" et de montagne "ski randonnée". le vieillissement fait que les genoux ne suivent pas, et pour conserver cette liberté et les grands paysages, le kayak était la solution. Ne sachant pas et un peu isolé je me suis orienté sur un kayak Nautiraid "grand narak" occasion un jeunes sur St pierre et Miquelon qui l'avait acheté neuf pour des raid sur le grand Nord. Maintenant je suis sur un beau kayak Lettman dans un club vers Antibes en France.
Je vois que de nombreux pagayeurs viennent de la randonnée et d'autres sports qui peuvent être durs pour les genoux. Bonne chance pour ton voyage. Merci d'avoir regardé!
I always knew I was part of the problem, but that's another story.
Sounds like a good story!
I am from Ireland and where i live where are no other sea kayaking people around. When i go out with people its sit on tops. Yes i am over 50 and have a yard with bad knees otherwise i would be still hiking and climbing . I find experience paddlers don't want to be with new bs. I hiked and climbed on my own since i was young but kayaking needs two to be safe.
The safety aspect, as a deterrent to paddling is something that I didn’t take into consideration. I am going to have to do a video. Thanks and if there is anything i can do to help you, reach out via email.
I always recommend everyone paddles with someone. However, I paddle the North Coast of Ireland mostly solo. Only go in calm-ish conditions, always wear PFD, carry a phone and let people know exactly what I am doing and when I’ll be back.
I think another things that puts a stop or a hold on taking up Kayaking, is Kids and how much later we have them. I am nearly 50 and my Kids are 15 and 12 years of age. Which also links to disposable income. My Wife and I both had Canoes as they were called back then over here, that needed some work to get them back in the water, we then found that my wife was pregnant so that put pay to them and now it is my youngest Daughter and myself that are interested in Kayaking. Only I am interested in Sea kayaking, as my Daughter is only interested in using a White Water kayak on flat water on Club nights. There is also from what I see myself and my not be true for every where, but it tends to be class divide with most paddlers coming from a more affluent background or form better paid careers. Yet our Club has concessions for those on Benefits and they only charge £95 per year for membership for those that are not on benefits and you have use of all the equipment that is needed from Paddle Boards, White Water, Sit on Tops, Touring Kayaks and Canoes.
One of the other bars I guess is the cost of trips, which will again stop even the likes of my whilst my kids are still at home and dependant upon both me and my wife as I am a stay at home Dad as I am a full time Carer for my Eldest Daughter. I can do Club trips a they are very well priced and that is so that they are more affordable. It is the big trips that would really tick the boxes for me are the Expedition trips that cost thousands to book a place on. I am a long way off doing them on a skill level at the moment.
There is a Film or TV show that comes to mind that is based on a true story during the Second World War with Servicemen using Kayaks to place limpet Mines on a German Battleship. I think it was the Royal Marines, but it has been years since I sure it hence being unsure. and not being able to remember the Name.
The effect of children is not a bad point. Ill have to dig into that one a little bit. THanks for the tip on the TV show, im gonna try and track it down!
@@AdventureOtaku It is called The Cockleshell Heroes. There is BBC news Article that covers the Recreation of the Raid by the Royal Marines 80yrs later. There is also a book by Paddy Ashdown who was once a Royal Marine Officer as well as a member of Parliament. I seem to think that there was a TV show as well, but will require a bit more digging.
Found it! It is Called The Heroes and Stars Jason Donovan, (probably more well known to British and Australian people) it was a TV mini series made in 1989. Don't know without searching if this was a factual account like Cockleshell Heroes is, I do remember watching some of it with my Mum when I was younger.
You missed a whole segment of paddling: Surfskis. "Skis" have come a long ways in the last 15 years. All major manufacturers make entry level boats (Epic V5, V7, V8) in plastic and fiberglass. Unless you are touring or in cold conditions many people would be better served by a surfski. Much safer, less weight, faster learning process. If you aren't worried about whether you can roll up in 'real' conditions, you're more likely to push your limits. Two aspects that make surfski paddling appealing is 'fitness paddling' ( who wants to paddle a barge) and wave/wake riding.
Yeah, I didn’t talk about surf skis because the title of the video is literally “sea kayaking” - surf skis aren’t sea kayaks.
@@AdventureOtaku Maybe you should start thinking outside the box. Who cares about labels. It's about fun and safety. The right tool for the right job.
Yeah I can’t paddle for two weeks unsupported on the Maine coast with a surf ski.
@@AdventureOtaku I get it you're a guide/instructor. Most people will never tour over night or paddle when its cold. Its kind of like driving a Winnebago because you use it one or two times a year. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. With safety priority one, most paddlers being in the low skill range would be better off on a sit-on-top. See, I didn't use the 'SS' word.
Im 16 and I'm into sea kayaking
Thank you for being an outlier. Anything I can do to help you, let me know.
I would figure the two biggest problems are cost of entry (you can pickup a lake kayak for like 300 from Walmart, Dicks and more but how much is a sea kayak) and access. Sea kayaking means being close to an ocean (which isn't available to a huge swath of Americans) or having the money to travel to an ocean. Also, the safety aspect is huge. Harder to drown in a still lake than a moving ocean. Also, also, how the hell do you find a community of like-minded individuals? To spend the money to buy, then to transport this giant, unwieldy piece of equipment and then meet people you can do it with seems pretty damn hard. But then again, I have no idea what I'm talking about. In order for me to get into sea kayaking, I would have to borrow or rent a kayak, find a "safe" kayaking location AND someone to go with. Lots and lots of barriers of entry.
Okay, with all respect, I am going to debunk all three of those problems. Cost. Yes, sea kayaks are expensive. But they are plentiful, used online. Plus, Mountain biking is booming and most mountain bikers start with a cheap mountain bike and then end up in $2k, $3k even $4k bikes. I don’t buy the cost as an obstacle. Okay, oceans. Most Americans live on coasts. BUT i do most of my paddling on lakes and travel to paddle. I may be an outlier, but it isn’t that expensive to drive 3-5 hours and get to the coast. But certainly people who live close to the coast will be more likely to paddle a long boat and we see that in the PNW and Maine. Next, harder to drown in a still lake… The vast majority of paddle related deaths do in fact occur on lakes, or otherwise benign conditions. The Coast Guard releases a report on boating injuries every year. Now this may be that ocean paddlers are better, understand the risk better and are more prepared. I will say, yes…. Transport is a pain in the butt. I find it really interesting how many people have listed “safety” or even perceived risk as a hindrance which never occurred to me as a hindrance, and that is clearly my bias. I appreciate you taking the time to comment!
Kayaking is relatively expensive. It is not matter of 2000 buck boat, but everything else top of that. And geography. One can hike almost anywhere, but not paddle. You content creators are part of issue too. Hate to say that but demand of classes and courses, demand of rolling skills etc is creating image where kayaking is even more difficult and expensive. It is reason why sup-boards are increasing popularity at same time when kayaking is slowly sinking. And that is word wide thing. What can we do? No idea. But finnish guy did solo rowing over Atlantic from Europe to Americas and is now coming back. Visibility is huge (in scale of north europe of course) and selling of modern row boats is booming. You are right, we can’t create such hype anywhere for some reason.
There are a couple of things here I disagree with. I don’t accept that expense is a reason, because Mountain biking is booming over here and mountain bikes get expensive quickly. I can also say (because it was in all the data I sifted through) that SUP is dying - at least over here. I can’t say what is happening in Europe. But in the US, SUP numbers are decreasing. I need more info on how you think content creators are hurting though. Most of what I publish is to help people get on the water. I do agree that there is a class divide. There are very few people of color sea kayaking. Thanks for stopping by!
I suspect the rec SUP market is starting to get saturated in the US, if it hasn't already. The modern dropstitch boards (even the cheapo ones) are so good and durable that most people have no need to ever upgrade or replace them.
Totally saturated
This doesn't explain the age gradient, but: Not everyone lives near the sea. Many more people (like me) do live near a lake or river suitable for recreational kayaking
Except that I use my touring kayak on lakes. and travel with it to do trips.
Let's be clear; for everything a sea kayak does, there is something else that does it better. It is a niche, within a niche, within a niche. I am a lifelong whitewater kayaker, and that is dork. Surfing is cool, whitewater is dork, and sea kayaking is what old men do when they are too boring to die in whitewater. Sea kayaks are too long, too expensive, and too fragile. Anyone in the market for a sea kayak can afford a small day-tripper fishing boat, with an outboard motor that you can put your feet up on, relax and have a few beers while you fish, or they can opt for a small sail yacht. Backpackers can hike in to places, they can take various public or odd transport modes which you simply can't with a sea kayak. Other people exploring inland waterways can just bring a Canadian canoe. It has a bunch of perceived advantages. Sea Kayaking properly is hard, and needs specialist training to do it right. There is the actual kayaking part, with strokes, rolling etc. There is the navigation part which is more common in mountaineering or sailing, then there is the wild-camping part. Sea kayaking is too expensive, requires too much training, equipment, support equipment (car, roof rack, home storage) and has overly limited utility, and is more gruelling than exciting. There, my sea kayak bashing done. Now I hope to see youtuber sea kayakers up their game and actually make videos that entertain and inspire, so all these perceived issues get given real evidence to be false. In ALL my above assertions I want to be proven wrong, and I want sea kayaking to be a healthy activity for the foreseeable future. Good luck.
If all this is true (and some of it is arguable) why are you here, wasting your time watching a video that clearly infuriates you? Why do you care enough to want to be proven wrong? But for the record, a canoe can’t handle wind the way a sea kayak can, and isn’t as fast as a sea kayak, so I can go places it cant. It is less expensive than sailing (I know because I do both, and an entry level sailboat is more than the most expensive touring kayak, which is why I don’t own one) It is less equipment and climbing or mountaineering (I do that too) and I can’t put even the smallest (say, a sunfish) on the roof of a car the way I can a kayak. And for the record you can die in a sea kayak just like a white water kayak it just takes longer. But hey, you have a nice day.
You are so right about this. Sea kayaking community should grow better. Longest sea kayak solo expedition was Mark Ervin #TheGreaterLoop with 11000 km around Canada/US
Freya is working on all of North America!
wow ! all america !
I'll look into that
She’s already done South America and Australia
As someone who was in the cycling community for 30 years, until I had a back injury, here is my perspective. I feel there’s a bit of elitism from certain segments of these sports.
I was a road biker and always felt like roadies looked down on the rest of the cycling community. When day hiking, I always feel like through hikers consider the trail theirs, and I’m in the way. I get that vibe from sea kayakers, like they are the only ones doing things correctly.
And you’re not wrong. The thing is when you transition into a sea kayak, if your goal is to do multiday stuff, you are sort of forced to get your stroke down, and to take safety seriously, etc… The problem comes as to how they interact with the rest of the paddling community - and I include myself in that too. There is a lot of elitism among what another commenter called “the old guard” of sea kayaking and there is no place for that. I literally built this channel with the goal of getting people on the water, but admittedly when I see someone paddling wrong, or not wearing a PFD or not paying attention to the weather it drives me crazy. In part because they are working harder Than they have to (paddling wrong) taking unnecessary risks (not wearing a PFD and not paying attention to the weather.) But - I hope - I am not presenting that information in an elitist way. So as I said, you’re not wrong, but that information has to be presented in an environment that is welcoming as opposed to condescending.
I really appreciate the information your channel provides. I like paddling in the winter and bought a dry suit after watching one of your videos. Your advise translates to the recreational kayaker as well.
Thanks for watching.
It all comes down to money. Backpacking or climbing is super cheap to get into and incremental upgrades are cheap and easy.
Anything better than a 10' rec kayak has a big cost barrier. And everyone that I try to get into kayaking thinks ita crazy to get something bigger than 10' ("its too big!") People look at me like I have two heads when I tell them my kayak is 13.5ft
I love kayaking and want a sea kayak and dont have one because I have yet to justify the expense to the wife.
Ive said this in a bunch of comments already… clearly I should have said it in the video! The cost barrier isn’t keeping mountain bikers from buying multiple, multi-thousand dollar bikes. Cycling is long term WAY more expensive than sea kayaking. And Mountain biking is growing like a weed.
@@AdventureOtaku that's true, but virtually all 332 million people in the US have ridden a bike or will do so when they're old enough, and most people start with a bike that's under $100. So you have a massive foundation (entire population), and even if a small percentage moves to the next level, its still a lot of people. Plus there's a ton of great road and mountain bikes that were $1000+ in the late 90's available for $200 on marketplace that act as a conduit to the next level. Get someone off a $100 Walmart bike onto a $200 1999 Stumpjumper, they experience not only the quality difference but they also learn how much more than can do, and the next thing you know they're dropping $5k on a good bike.
In comparison, only people that live near water can kayak, and they still need $500 to score a used $300 pelican, buy a paddle and a pfd.
you're right they have a much bigger base, and we do need water to paddle...but still... that transition is happening in cycling and far less often in kayaking.
I’m 53
Im 56 and I am younger than most of my students!
This year I signed up for a sea kayaking course with the mountaineers. Being 62 at the time I thought I would certainly be the old man in a group of youngsters. Well, I wasn't. Not even close. For the most part it was my peer group.
Yup. Not surprised
What is the problem? Sorry, but your video is based on the assumption that the viewer understands the problem and agrees that it is a problem. For your sake, please be more explicit in describing the issue and why it needs attention. Otherwise, keep it up! I’ve enjoyed your videos!
Literally at the 1 minute mark, I explain the problem. I can’t make people agree with me, but if our average age continues to rise and we don’t have positive growth in participation soon we will have no paddlers. That is simple math.
@@AdventureOtaku, sorry you're right about that. What I was trying to say is why does it matter if participation declines? I'm sure that you have many good things to say about why that matters, but they simply weren't stated. Playing devil's advocate, many outdoor sports could benefit in many ways through decreased participation (e.g., less crowded trailheads, less trail conflict, etc.), so I don't think that it's obvious that decreased participation is a bad thing. Basically, I think there were unsaid things that you could expand on further; my intent was not to be critical but rather constructive in my feedback.
Nope I didn’t state them, because I felt they were obvious. And we already experience these problems now and they are only going to get worse. Try going into a store and seeing a touring kayak. You can’t because they don’t stock them because so few are sold. The same goes for quality paddles. Equally it is harder to find instruction, equally it is harder to find support for trips. When I got the Skagway, the end of the inside passage - which is arguably the Appalachian Trail equivalent for kayaking - the only place I could land my kayak was the boat ramp where if I had been caught using it, I would have had to pay an exorbitant fee. That town simply isn’t set up to support people ending the most important paddling destination in the world. This sport is a pathway to the outdoors for people who don’t want to, or cant carry a backpack. That is my goal, to get people outdoors. The fact that so few younger people want to paddle touring kayaks makes that more difficult.
Along with marketing, is competition for people's time and attention with other water sports. There are so many water sports to choose from now like stand-up paddle boarding, kite boarding, wing/foil surfing, etc. I love sea kayaking, but I also SUP and surf; I have to balance where I spend my time and money. The barrier to entry with SUP (and casual rec kayaking) is lower both in cost and learning curve. Most people seem to dabble in multiple activities or can only afford to do a single sport -- often renting equipment a few times a year. Then there is access to the ocean -- people are more likely to SUP, rec kayak, kiteboard or wing surf on inland bodies of water.
You’re right in terms of competing for time, but you are wrong in terms of usage. Ive never seen a kiteboarder on an inland lake but I see them all over the OBX. I see a lot of people in long kayaks on lakes, and I see rec kayaks and sups everywhere.