Do Kids Need School? Inside the 'Unschooling' Movement
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 01. 2019
- "School is a place where children go to learn to be stupid," said author and educator John Holt.
Subscribe to our CZcams channel: / reasontv
Like us on Facebook: / reason.magaz. .
Follow us on Twitter: / reason
Subscribe to our podcast at Apple Podcasts: goo.gl/az3a7a
Reason is the planet's leading source of news, politics, and culture from a libertarian perspective. Go to reason.com for a point of view you won't get from legacy media and old left-right opinion magazines.
---
Watch the video above to learn more about the history of the unschooling movement, and to meet some of its modern practitioners, like the Rios-Sherman family. We also visited a school in Houston, Texas, that operates on the "Sudbury model," in which the kids decide how to spend their time, and vote on issues such as how to handle disciplinary matters and the allocation of school funds.
Produced by Zach Weissmueller. Camera by Jim Epstein, Mark McDaniel, Brynmore Williams, and Weissmueller.
"Float," "Ether Oar," Don't Force This," "Goodnight Shapeshifter,"Bubble," "Tides," and "Sanguine Bond" by Joel Corelitz are licensed under a Creative Commons attribution license.
"Static Shoes" by Loyalty Freak Music is licensed under a Creative Commons Universal 1.0 license.
"Don't let schooling interfere with your education"
-Mark Twain
as long as the students learn core subject matter like reading and writing and math to a standardized lvl for entry into college the more power to this idea. I was bored in school, because the teacher had to teach to the class so 1/4 to half of the time I did homework at home or twiddled my thumbs in boredom.
students need to be enabled to learn at their own pace and the tech has been their for 20-30 years to enable to this approach.
@@kercchan3307 But parents leveraging technological advancements for customizing kids' learning would upset the sweet deal teachers unions currently enjoy. How dare you put student education and well-being first!
@@kercchan3307 College is a scam for most people
Mark Twain was a highly intelligent voracious reader and writer. He gets a pass.
@@kercchan3307 Missed the mark a little bit there. Who cares about "entry into college" as a standard. If a kid needs to go to college, then let him. Don't force everyone else to obey an arbitrary standard. That is the point of this video.
As an anecdote;
Self taught here. Parents did not let me go to school, nor did they do ‘home schooling.’
They let me learn at my own pace, over my own interests.
I ended up with a PhD in physics.
However... my sister lived the exact same lifestyle, and things did not turn out well for her at all.
The key is to determine how a student best learns, not to force a learning method on a student.
I think that sex differences may play a part. Little girls respond better to the schooling format than boys.
May I ask how you got into a university without school grades? Because if that's possible I've been wasting a good portion of my life on bs.
@@deidara_8598 A lot of institutions have admission exams etc. The government also offers certification for high school equivalencies.
@@michaelharder9737 Ahh.... if you're suggesting that he got into a college physics program with a GED and a high ACT score, I also would love to know the name of the university that accepted him.
Jason James No ACT. Spent a couple weeks studying for the GED. After I obtained the GED a few weeks later, I took a semester of courses at a community college, transferred to an in state junior college, then transferred to an in state 4 year (Colorado State University).
After graduation I applied to the University of Colorado, Boulder after working at NIST for a year.
If you want your kids to be smart and succeed teach them how to learn on their own, rather than trying to teach them everything.
Collective thought is far more powerful.
Overwhelmingly most of intelligence is genetic. Once a kid is about 8 years old who they will be is pretty well set. "Education" has little discernable benefit. Test them at 8, 17, and 25 and there is little change that can be verified beyond the margin for error.
This. Hundred percent this. In the information age school is redundant and ignorance is a choice.
Exactly what school never taught me and what I found myself having to learn once out of school.
Samuel Bickford Yep that’s exactly how we do it we teach our kids how to think not what to think
“You can’t judge a fish by its inability to climb a tree”
-Mark Twain
"My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me out of school." ~Margaret Mead
I had no idea Mead was hs. Makes sense
No, just no
Just about everyonoe famous and worth a damn said similar stuff: Mark Twain, Frank Zappa, etc.
Deep, but true.
Teach a child how to learn, not so much what to learn.
Don't make a child learn, make it want to learn.
Kids know how to operate computers better than most adults, yet they've learned nothing about them in school, natural curiosity is what drives this learning and it's effects are quite profound.
That's a total load of crap and is an invention of your bias. I am nearly 40 and even I had computer classes in school, they still exist as it is an essential skill in this day and age.
In fact, I have been asked to teach IT as I am highly skilled in it and I can promise I know how to operate computers better than most kids. Many IT jobs in the domestic market are from kids breaking the home pc because they don't know what they are doing and think they do.
Curiosity improves learning outcomes as it creates interest in the subject matter. If you put the time and effort into learning something you are not interested in, you will still learn it. You could even study something you hate all the way to a PhD.
@Elisa Castro clearly those kids are just dumb, I Google history and science stuff all the time.
*giggles* I've been in IT for over 30 years, and my 3-year-old daughter smokes me on the Shopkins Run game... I'm SO getting old. :*)
There is classes later in high school that you can take
@@fluffyunicorn57 What nonsense are you speaking? I'm a teacher and in my district we have to do IT classes every year and update our skills every time that we do them.
So... I'm a teacher. And I'm someone who would consider home schooling. There are fantastic teachers at public schools but for every great teacher, there's at least 3 that are just meh. But that's not even the biggest issue - behavioral issues as well as disruptive students and teachers unable to effectively eliminate that behavior from the classroom is a bigger problem. Also it's hard to not teach to the middle, so the advanced students are often not challenged and the lagging students just feel like dummies. And I also know teachers that do insert their own political and philosophical ideas into their lessons in irresponsible, propaganda-like fashion. I want my kids to be able to think critically for themselves and make up their own ideas about the world, not be force fed someone else's party line.
Some parents switch to K12 online public school option. A homebased instruction format for kids who learn at a pace too. It is actually closest to what a free homeschooling you will get for your children.
@@ashleynave561 that solves behavioral & pacing issues, but I still have to wonder about indoctrination instead of education. I have taken graduate courses online and I honestly don't know if students get quite as much out of online courses as there really is something to be said for peer interaction. Although I think it could be done well if carefully designed so it's something to consider. Thanks!
I'll have to agree with the initial comment. I dont believe in unschooling but I do believe that if home schooling is done right it's a wonderful thing. I remember my time in school quite well despite not being in school for like 15 years now(I'm 31). Home school worked well for like the first month because my mom was there. When she got a job though that's when I was kinda left to my own devices on it. I believe that homeschooling is great but theres got to be some form of structure to it. When you shove a 15 year old in a room with a computer for an entire school year and dont let her go out to do anything outside of the home it can and DOES lead to depression(didn't really have friends and my parents seemed to favor my brothers more). There has to be some commitment on the kids part but there definitely needs to be a consistent active commitment on the adults part. However if you have the commitment and the some kind of structure mixed with some activities outside of the home it's great.
All great points! We have created little more than an educational bureaucracy in American that serves no one well. The public schools are a great place to learn how to play sports, deal drugs, gangbang, extort, bully, and sexually exploit others. Preparation for a real career... not so much!
I've been in both worlds... Public school and homeschooling. There are positives and negatives to both
I think parents need to step back, stop pushing their trash in bags for kids to carry... and figure out what is best for each child.
I have a kid who thrives in public school, homeschooling would be a prison for him. I have another kid who is like a fish in water with homeschooling.
I just hope that people who choose homeschooling, find what fits the child... not parents pushing. I've seen the same thing with religion... and realize how lucky my kids are to have us. I am honest with my kids as to how my experiences formed my opinions... but I'm open minded enough to accept they are not my clone
Interesting. I just want to see where these kids end up in terms of employment, engineers, start ups etc. If the data backs it up then why not consider it 😃.
It seems like this movement has been going on long enough for data to exist. Curious why they didn’t mention it in the video.
Eric Herrero - self education is easier than ever. At this point the only value of public school is to act as a daycare for parents to go to work. But this can be solved if we could allow parents to use school vouchers to let parents stay home and teach their kids. My school districts spends $8000 per kid per year with poor results. Give me that $8000 per year to homeschool my own kids and I can guarantee my kids will be much better educated.
I see. It would've been very helpful to include that data in the video . I'll take a look at the data and look into these different options. Thank you 😊
@@earthbjornnahkaimurrao9542
I agree. Use the money to teach your own kid while having the school support the local football or baseball teams so my kid can still play sports and learn socializeation in the meas of sports
My kids were a hybrid of homeschooled / unschooled. One manages a restaurant, the other is leading the project to build Toyota's new AI & Robotics lab facility. Neither has a college degree. Both of them learned as children 1) how to learn, and 2) how tremendously fun and enriching learning can be.
im a gen z and i have learned 90% more from the internet and it's endless chapters of information and i hate that older generations think the internet kills your brain. I'm complimented for all the things i know from my grandparents and they ask what books i read and i just give them links to scientific studies. in school, there are teachers who are lazy and are baby sitters so i waste roughly 3 hours of my day on my phone because there is literally no lesson. So, it looks like students are distracted drones when more often than not, they just want stimulating classes that (mostly) the american school system doesn't have the budget to do
Agreed, school literally just wasted my time
As a mother of a gifted 10yr old who bores easily,he's also told me a huge amount of what he knows about life has been through myself,or good ol' internet
Stop it with This bs it's Just not true
Agreed. I know this sounds douchey, but I guess you could say I’m one of the “smart” kids in my class. I have straight A’s, and am in mostly advanced classes except for math. 99% of what I learned has come from the internet, and if my parents did not give me a phone so early, I would not be in the position I’m in today.
I’m a millennial and the big thing in school was that teachers took your phones away if you were on them in class. I’m glad to see that’s changed but I don’t think I really had times where there wasn’t a lesson. Can you elaborate on that?
As someone who was homeschooled for a large part of life, my experience was terrible. I learned at a much faster rate than others my age (when I was at a first grade age, I was doing eighth grade academics), but I was completely alone and developed debilitating depression that I still suffer with as an adult. I was severely socially underdeveloped, and it took years to even be able to comfortably talk to other people. I still have difficulty leaving my house because of it. I'm all for independent learning if it helps the child, but please make sure they can still socialize with other children on a regular basis to develop normal and healthy social bonds.
I think the main problem with homeschooling or "unschooling" is the lack of socialization with other kids.
I like the idea of this but it seems like there is an absence of self responsibility and productivity. Doing "what you want" is not what life is about. It's moderation between responsibility and relaxation. I'm sure the kids will learn, the information and possibilities are there, but no direction can bring a shallow understanding. Why apply ones self, dig deep, master a subject. The school system is broken as well, with a lack of relaxation and motivation. It seems like blending the two with a greater degree of fiscal responsibility and minimal administrative employees would be a successful solution
@Jacob Johnson I was the same. I would say most students have a natural desire to learn. Asking questions beyond the mandated material etc. But it would be foolish/ ignorant to say everyone is hungry. Anyone who had schooling would remember the kids that never did anything. It could be argued that it was the school system that made them disinterested (and they themselves would probably say that was why), but I think parents need to get their children to a level of willingness/ hunger for knowledge. That's where I think this is important. Letting your kids discover a little bit and then make them excited for learning. Unfortunately not every parent gives their child that chance which is sad, but I think every person discovers it a small bit when they become an adult and need skills to provide for themselves. It's that point where the kids that didn't learn to learn feel like the system failed them, that they are entitled to things they're not and that school is "dumb". So a sweet balance is definitely needed, I'd even say wait til a child is 7 to school them, or give them less stringent schooling than what currently happens in Kindergarten through 2nd grade
One of the most valuable skills one can acquire is the ability to sit down and do things you don’t want to do, when you don’t feel like doing them. Especially when you don’t feel like doing them. As an independent artist, I need to employ that skill for not only the business aspect of my career, but also the creative aspect. Not teaching that skill to kids is doing them a disservice.
From what I have been told, when a child first enters a school like this, they do spend a bit of time doing whatever lazy thing they do at home, however boredom quickly sets in. One child even said they timed it to an average 2-3 months. The boredom becomes so mindnumbing, the child will actually seek out opportunities to learn after seeing what other kids are doing. Generally, they'll seek out a medium to master and will end up learning all the subjects one would learn in a traditional school, sometimes to a greater degree. Say a child chooses to master creating videogames, they would learn computer coding and mathematics, but also science (designing a physics engine requires a baseline knowledge of physics itself), artistic design, player psychology, history of gaming, and marketing. And if they decide to get fancy and base their games off of a historical event, real life experience (simulation), or a favorite genre, they have to study those subjects too. And if they're truly interested in the subject, trust me they'll learn all of it. After all, everyone knows you learn more when you're interested than when you're forced. And if they need support, there are tutors to provide extra guidence and direction. Mastering a medium could take 2-3 years for the equivalent to an entry level job, and if they spend their entire schooling on it, they would qualify to run their own company. There's even a story of a 7 year old starting his own business in the school selling ice pops, where at a normal school that would've been squashed immediately.
As for the discipline thing, while the adults don't have power, the entire student body is given the power of discipline, and they are made aware of exactly how much power that is. These kids love their (un)school and know if the school looks bad they go back to a traditional school, so they are suprisingly meticulous about keeping trouble to a minimum. Every single student from k-12 has a vote in every decision about the school, including potentially expelling a student, so they study and take everything into account. In fact, many children who have behavior problems have at other schools seem to do well in this environment, because so much personal responsibility is expected of them, and they feel more confidence. And the one time the student body voted to expel a kid, the children said is was the most difficult decision anyone had to make and they all cried. So it seems in this system, children are placed in an environment where learning is presented as the cure to boredom (not the cause), self motivation and self discipline are rewarded, and they are given adult societal responsibilities in a safe, simulated environment.
It is the opposite. Unschoolers are 100% responsible for their choices. That is why they make good choices. They learn because they want to gain knowledge, not because they want to pass a test or get a good grade.
@@GeorgeCoghill my unschoolers learn discipline because they have to get up and feed the chickens if they don't want them to die. My 12 year old decided he wants to be a youtuber. He decided that if his videos are going to be good he needs to first write a script. He doesn't like writing, but he forces himself to do it. I don't need to force him to do the things he doesn't like. (Except maybe take a shower)
i love homeschooling/ unschooling, but setting kids down in front of mine craft all day is the most degenerative thing you can do. Youre teaching them how to be consumers, not creator or innovators. take the phones, give them books, give them tools to create, give them access to courses on coding or something. Kids will naturally learn, but if they are distracted with instant gratification, they wont. kids dont know the benfits of delayed gratification. it is learned. kids will learn to love to create, it will eventually be even ore fun than video games. take it from a teenager who is unschooled, and hasnt touched a video game in months. I spend my day learning, and making. its more fun and gratifying to me than minecraft.
I may have once thought that way, but now I don't. Actually, I am seeing less and less value in reading as a means of gaining information. It is still useful, just not as much as it used to be. Writing, even more so. If a kid learns better from a video, why take it from him and force him to read a book? I am not sure why Minecraft is being dragged through the mud here, but seriously, one of mine would have never learned to read without Minecraft and Zelda. He said, "Reading is like opening up a whole new awesome cheat code. " He didn't need some lame Reader Rabbit or Jumpstart, he learned to read because it made gaming easier.
@@michellerohl2794 Maybe books aren't for every one, but they are extremely useful for learning, I think if you are willing to go past your comfort zone to read books, you'll gain a lot more value than from a video. This is coming from someone who used to rarely read at all. I started reading about a year ago, and i have discovered that is a more compact form of learning, because books take more effort to write than it takes someone to film a video. Again, maybe not for everyone, but should be tried. I actually have learning the vast majority of what i know in my field because of youtube videos, and certainly see the potential and value in them. On minecraft, i think there is very little to be learned from it, especially for a 15 year old kid (approximated from video). What can you learn from looking at instagram or memes all day? probably not much. I think in this case minecraft helped your kid because he had incentive to learn to read, but minecraft itself didnt teach him. Also his young age can allow him to learn alot from anything, as all kids do, because they have so much to learn. Im glad your kid can learn like this, making learning a active life long activity is the most important thing you can do, I just dont think it should ever be implemented on a mass scale. most kids dont see the value in challenging themselves to learn, and when an enticing video game is put in front of their face, why would they ever leave it to go read or explore other avenues of learning.
Btw i actually think minecraft is fun, so im definitely not knocking it, lol
@@lukecunningham8793 I love books. I grew up before computers. But, I have come to realize that my preference does not need to be my kids' preference. They don't like books, and that is okay right now. Good for you for going out of your comfort zone though.
@@everyone9500 good for you, that's a very productive thing to do, whether that's reproducable, I'm not sure. And playing 50 hours of Minecraft to 2 hours of coding(somewhat abitrary, but reasonable ratio estimate) is far too common, and that is unacceptable as a schooling solution. It also must be supplemented with other subjects/activities to diversify an education, otherwise you'll grow up being really good at Minecraft and possibly coding, and nothing else.
I just wanna day that Minecraft is basically like giving children an infinite amount of blocks and telling them to build whatever they want. They could easily learn design from the game.
all i learnt at kindergaten thru grade 12 was reading, writing, and a bit of math basically. Something i could of knocked off in two years, and the rest was fluff that basically killed my spirit for about 10 years. I was lucky i got my love for science n stuff back, most people don't.
Yes, and this isn’t an argument for “unschooling,” but better-schooling.
BabylonianDynamics As well you should have. But if you want things to improve we must first decide on what goals to pursue. Unschooling is not a worthy goal. If you’re interested in the subject, check out some of Lisa VanDamme’s videos about her academy and teaching philosophy. I’d love to hear your thoughts. (Marva Collins is another great example of what’s possible, btw)
That's bc it's a tax-paid-for babysitting (and govt indoctrination) service. Our 5 cram the "3 Rs" in 1-2 hours a day then spend the rest of the day actually learning.
BLUEGENE13 wish I could have tested out if school. I was reading 12th grade level in 3/4th grade . All I would have needed was a lil access to science labs etc growing up and I would have been fine. Many forget that the average student doesn’t require a teacher to learn but they are loved by teachers. The bad student and bad learners are despised by teachers but are the ones in most need of them.
Apparently you didn't learn proper grammer.
"The only thing that damaged by education was ... my schooling." -- Winston Churchill
*Starts WW2 like a boss*
He did not say that.
Actually, he did say that
@Dio Brando Please learn history
@@DioBrando-mr5xs please learn history
My 5-year-old son is 'unschooled', and he:
1) knows colors/alphabet/basic math (add/subtract and some mult/div)/DoW/MoY/etc.
2) reads fluently, including some words usually reserved for middle school readers
3) can talk about planets/dwarf planets/moons/stars/other celestial bodies in detail (the Kuiper belt is his favorite)
4) can identify the first two rows of the periodic table by atomic number, can tell you what type of element it is (alkaline metals, transition metals, halogens, noble gases, etc.) - Beryllium is the current favorite
5) knows the Russian alphabet (can speak and write) and can pronounce some Russian words correctly
6) knows and can describe all 2D shapes and most 3D shapes (and can build them)
7) knows many Chemistry/Biology-A&P/Physics concepts at a high school level
My 3-year-old daughter actively gleans knowledge from her brother and frequently plays word games and build stories together based on that knowledge - all while literally standing on their heads/tumbling/swinging from a trapeze...or just sitting :*)
If I were to put either of them in a classic kindergarten/classroom, they would implode from boredom and most likely become disciplinary issues for the teachers who believe children should remain in their seats, sit quietly, and listen to the information being given.
Simply put - Unschooling works. Learning becomes the awesome game you always play unless you are asleep.
It's really about I.Q. That's what no one wants to admit.
Lol. My son is 5 and has been in the public school system since he was four. He can write his name, knows half the alphabet, just learner to count to 10, does not know any math, cannot read. Due to the poor public education system I quit my job and took him out of school. I'm now unschooling him. He has learned basic math, the whole alphabet, science and so much more in one month then he has learned in 2 years at public School. Not only that but what made me decide to take him out of school was he came home one day and asked if he should kill himself because he's white. turns out my son was suffering from depression and being bullied at school at the age of five. Something is seriously wrong with our education system
I have always viewed IQ tests (and the overall concept of IQ) with skepticism. If the goal of the IQ system is to determine how "clever" you are, then how can you truly test someone's cleverness if the test is constrained to a set of predefined concepts of what cleverness is? Children's minds are infinitely malleable, and are amazingly agile when it comes to creative thinking. Our goal as parents (IMHO) is to try as best we can to determine how each child "ticks", and to help them harness those natural learning inclinations to maximize not only their overall knowledge repository but most importantly their analytical abilities.
My son reads well, not because he has memorized every word he reads, but because he has figured out the patterns of the English language. I didn't have to teach him grammatical rules - he figured them out by looking at the words and hearing how they compared phonetically. If I had tried to cram down the "i before e except after c" stuff, he would have lost the passion to read and I would be left trying to force the skill down the throat of an unwilling child.
To use another example - why teach a child to add 127+96 by the old method of "add 7 + 6 and then carry the 1, etc.", when the child more readily thinks:
127 = 100 + 27
96 = 100 - 4
100 + 100 = 200
27 - 4 = 23
200 + 23 = 223.
Which way is "right"? Aren't they BOTH right? The "right" way is the way your child more naturally approaches the problem and more readily solves it. What if, instead of counting to 10 on his fingers, your child counts his right-hand thumb as equal to 5, and counts fingers and thumb on the left hand as 10s and 50s respectively? Your child can now count to 100 reliably on his fingers, with the numbers in the correct position. Is your child "incorrect" because he has learned how to represent fingers and thumbs with different values? How can any formal classroom determine each child's abilities to approaching problems and then compensate for these alternatives?
My son brought a piece of paper to a friend of mine with colored scribbles. He mentioned the different colors. It wasn't until he said the word "wavelengths" that we realized that he was talking about how the different frequencies each light wave in the visible spectrum expresses itself. He made the association of each color to how each light wave would look relative to the other. This is not genius - this is simply a connection he made that made sense to him, which would never have been made had he not been exposed to the concept. It's the same reason that he can identify the splenic flexure in the large intestine and challenge my wife (who is an RN and taught A&P in college) to name all the other parts. We didn't force this stuff down his throat in a regimented curriculum - he learned it because it was exciting and cool at that moment. Regular classrooms simply cannot flex like this by design. Unschooling allows each child to find their own areas of genius and run with it. The "essentials" naturally fill in as needed in the pursuit of their passions...and it's never thought of as "work".
@@justinc746 While as a proud daddy, I would like to think my son (as well as my other children) are significantly above average, I think the idea that we believe we understand the human brain to the extent that we can prescribe tests, distill the results into a number, and then correlate that number to someone's innate value to society as reprehensible. To also assume we have unlocked the code of intelligence to the point that we can create a curriculum that is both optimal and infallible for all is the height of hubris.
The human brain is not simply an empty vessel to pour knowledge into - it is a wonder of biochemical evolution that is as unique and mysterious as it is awesome. I have no issues with the relentless pursuit of the knowledge of how the brain works, but I take issue with a field of research that presumes to understand with full clarity that subject. I remain Socratic in the presumption of knowledge, and Euripidean in my questioning of "established fact". Had we historically relied on established fact of the scientific community, we would still be living on a flat earth. So yes...I do question, and I always will. It is amazing what we have done in the name of "Science"...but it is incumbent upon us to remind ourselves that it is still much more of an "Art" and only reflects our ever-evolving and still-meager understanding of the world around us.
On a lighter note...I could pull a Sheldon Cooper and say "Neuroscience is not a real science", but I think Mayim Bialik would probably hunt me down... *giggles*
I'm a freshman and I'm about to do unschooling cause I cant function in public school. Im exited to get out of this jail!
The only thing I learned in high school is to smoke weed with a soda can.
My high school yearbook quote.
" I learned a lot in four years here, none of it came from teachers or books"
Or an apple 🍎 😂
2 liter gravity bong
Thats a pretty good skill to have
It's sad how common that is.
I used to be Unschooled but then I decided (By myself) to go back into school in first of secondary. When I tell the other kids this they are like "but then you never learned anything?" "What did you learn" It kind of makes me sad, that they don't know how much I learned through my own passions... I also do quite well in school, I just get upset because I feel like I don't have much time with my family anymore...
edit: They also ask me if I had any friends. I have my two best friends who are sisters and a few other kids, it's not much but they mean more to me than all my new friends at school, they don't feel the pressure to grow up, we like climbing trees, drawing, playing games, etc. I socialized more with them than any other girls I met.
School was depressing and demotivating for me. I learned way more outside of school than in because I felt more free and enthusiastic than just copying things from a text book and being forced to try to learn things that don't interest or benefit me in any way.
One of those kids was wearing a Sabaton shirt - he could learn more history listening to that band then in a year of school!
Love when people shine a light on how ridiculous traditional k-12 education is. It's one of those "emperor has no clothes" moments.
its not ridiculous.it is EXTREMELY important.you dont go to school to learn actual skills or acquire useful knowledge.school is designed to get you used to menial,repetitive and daunting tasks that you have no interest in.it prepares you for the mundane monotony of real life .its designed to beat the rebelliousness out of you and teach you discipline.people like bill gates,musk etc are one in a million.the other 99% of people need to be prepped for their mind numbing lives as accountants,low level engineers and cashiers .they need to beat the hope out of us from a young age,otherwise nothing would ever get done on this planet.depressed drones blindly going through the motions is what makes the world go round
the school system was originally created to train/educate assembly line factory workers. Look it up. Where else in life would you have to ask your superiors for permission to use the bathroom? If there is an problem the superiors deal with it, the individual has no say. I hated school. I faired quite horribly in primary and middle school, - 40%, 50% and if I was lucky 60% in my courses. I had only an few friends, I was constantly bullied. A lot of kids thought I was an lesbian, because at 13 I was still an virgin - 13! My mom when to every Parent teacher meeting, " She's not paying attention", "She doesn't understand any of the concepts". My mom would come home and yell at me. Every evening my mom would help me with homework - which was just us yelling at each other for 2-3 hours over how the work was suppose to be done. In high school my number of peers changed from 200-300 to over 600. I made a lot of new friends we would study together every recess, lunch and after school. Some of us were better at science, or math, economics, while others like myself were better at language arts, or history. We all helped each other by sharing our strengths to get help with our weakness. If the was an concept that no one understood we would go to the teacher as an group and ask for help. In the younger grades if I asked for help or if I asked the teacher to repeat the example of the new math problem - they would say " Everyone else here understands it why don't you?" , or "This is so easy, why don't you understand?" - making me feel stupid and small. I graduated from High school with an 80% average and was accepted into University. Everyone in our group of friends graduated with an 75% or higher. Most of us (90%) when on to post secondary. Not everyone excels in an environment where were told to sit down, shut up and start memorizing.. P.S. our little group of students consisted of students from Advanced classes, Academic/Average classes (like myself) and basic classes. The sad thing is that students in the basic classes understood my math better then me - they tutored me! They were getting 90-95% in their math class. I helped them turn their 50% in language arts into an 80%-90%. The school board still refused to bump them up into academic classes. "Oh, but she has mild autism - she'll never understand the work and it just give her unwanted frustration", "No, no, no, he has Dyslexia - he'll never be able to keep up with the other kids." When these students applied for post secondary schools - such as trade schools. A lot of them had to stand before the teachers board of their school of choice and argue their case to get accepted. These were also the students that made Valedictorian or Salutatorian of their class in post secondary.
@@mariaocean2165
how can you still not know the difference between "an" and "a"?
My daughters teach my grandchildren by homeschooling. They love it and it bonds all members of the family.
I feel like there's a lot stuff public schools should be teaching us but isn't teaching it like how to pay bills or how to do a good job on an interview-these are valuable life skills and yet the average kid who attends public school knows nothing about these things once they leave it. That to me is the biggest tragedy of public schools
I dropped out at 6th grade. Elementary school was great for me, but middle school felt like Rikers Island by comparison. I left after three months. I tried high school for a year, but that felt like day care. I left after a year. Now I'm in grad school! I think I turned out pretty great! I know how to think for myself and am not susceptible to groupthink/peer pressure like most people. I am also comfortable being truly alone with myself. No regrets.
Trust me you did the right thing, Good people usually get manipulated into group think and end up in party scenes doing drugs or wasting their life on bullshit and regret it later.
The most successful people are ones who never went to public school, those dance mom kids for example, people like to talk shit but those kids make millions now and what are the public school kids doing, even the dotors, not making anywhere near that
@LagiNaLangAko23 I applied to 10 colleges, and got rejected by 6. But I got almost a full ride from one in NYC, so I moved out there. Now I'm in grad school. There are other details re: how I was able to get high school accreditation, but it's a long story and may be only specific to WA state.
@@Anomalouzs Thanks, so true. I just found out this month that another one of my high school freshman year classmates ODed. Not the first and sadly probably not the last. So much drinking and drugging at that school. So much frying of potential.
Tell me what the difference between a gerund and an infinitive is. Tell me what subject they relate to. You can’t, not without Google. Stay in school kids, or you’ll end up as moron and a miscreant. I bet you can’t even tell me what that word means.
Many schools are a terrible place to send kids. Stressed out teachers, bullies, gangs and drugs. High quality lesson on our large flat screens would be better and safer for our kids.. A million dollars could be spent on just one lessen as each lessen could cover the whole country.
czcams.com/video/Um2c9o25nfM/video.html
The best advice came at the very end, " *Pay attention to your kid.* Find out what they want to to do and work with that." My ex-wife was all about forcing our son to get good grades in school. When he comes to visit me at the weekend, I go through different activity books of various subjects and let him do constructive things on the computer. I do let him play games, but only if he has done something creative with his hands first; like draw a picture, make something out of legos or demonstrate a scientific principal in action and explain how it works to me. The subjects that we work on over the weekend, he excels at in school.
We should just introduce these ways into public education instead of totally getting rid of it.
No
Wow - what a bunch of crazies. This coming from someone who did home school for most his life. What's presented in this video appears equally as bad as formal education approaches, just in the opposite direction. Why do people always go to extremes when the answer is almost always somewhere in the middle? I agree with all their criticisms of traditional schooling, but learning does require work and discipline as well. I think the best approach is to let your kids explore their own interests, but you have to encourage them to work at it to excel in those interests. You also have to push them fill in the gaps. For example, unsocial kids (like I was) still need to learn how to socialize. Math nerds (like me) need to spend some time doing art/music. Everyone needs to learn math and writing skills, whether it interests them or not. Too much discipline crushes individual strengths, spirit and the natural desire to learn. Too little discipline and no one reaches their potential.
Good comment.
Why is it that traditional homeschoolers are always the worst critics of unschooling? Jealous that all of that force fed education didn't get you any further ahead in life than your peers that were allowed to learn in freedom?
Thank you! I was hoping to see a comment like this.
@@michellerohl2794 Lol, no. The version of home school I had was closer to 'unschooling' than what's done in public schools. I also went to public school for a few grades, so I feel like I'm in a unique position to understand both. I credit my parents for allowing me the freedom to pursue my interests - something that has stuck with me (and yes, helped me to 'get further ahead'). However, I also understand that without any discipline at all, I never would've bothered to learn and do some of the harder stuff, and some of the necessary stuff that I'm not as interested in. I don't think the premise of unschooling is bad, I just think the way it is implemented (as presented in this video) is 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'. It's crazy. I would be happy to see evidence to the contrary if there is any (the video didn't present any).
@@michellerohl2794 Also, I should clarify that my criticism is directed at what's presented in this video specifically - not necessarily 'unschooling' in general ("an educational method and philosophy that advocates learner-chosen activities as a primary means for learning" -wiki), which I am partially a product of. There is limited evidence supporting that idea - but it's a very broad concept. The devil's in the details.
Are they still at least learning basics? Math, percentages, stuff you're actually likely to use in real life?
Yes. Minecraft teaches math
Kevin Kostyk yes. He said the philosophy is learning outside the school
If you need it in real life, you will learn it.
You still learn math, but not in a traditional way. Like using fractions to double a recipe. My son also has a job so he’s learned how to budget and save money, as well as do his own taxes.
LITERALLY all you need is basic math, after that is a bunch of horseshit! Unless you're specifically going for something that requires that kind of knowledge!
It all depends if the kids are actually learning something and not believing that the world is flat lol
Manuel Zurita Nice strawman!
That's the issue. Just like any industry. There will be a small or moderate percentage of these "school" not teaching kids n just taking tuition. Abuse. Or propaganda.
Propaganda as small as "abstinence" only philosophy which never has worked. Etc...
Im.not arguing the school we saw in the video. BUT without ANY type of regulation there will be alot of victims. That's all
@@Gamer1st1 go to sleep sheep
So you think it's a wet spinning ball? That's rich! Time for some critical thinking perhaps.
@BabylonianDynamics dude I know that. I made that last comment as a joke.
My children have never gone to a traditional school. While we have done some curriculum at home, I keep it to a minimum so that my children have plenty of time to pursue their interests and passions. My 14yo has taught herself Japanese and digital art and animation. She asked and I found her a Japanese curriculum. She's in the 4th book. My 12yo took about 3 years of piano and then decided to learn Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, Debussy, and found CZcams tutorials. He practices at least 2 hours a day. He also reads composer biographies (he tells me which one to buy next), composes his own music and copies public domain music onto Muscore Ike it's his job. My 11yo takes horseback lessons which involve full care of the horse. She's also begun milking our sheep and is doing it all on her own, zero help from me. My 8yo planted our vegetable garden by himself this spring, and regularly checks on it, watering and weeding. He also cares for our 8 baby chicks, only asking for help if he can't open something. He's also composing an Opus with every type of music he can think of in it, and taking horseback with his sister.
I'm frustrated reading these comments of people saying "well if they choose what they WANT to do all day, they'll just play video games and watch TV and do nothing productive and not learn anything important." Baloney! My kids aren't geniuses, but for some reason people think they are merely because I "let them choose what they want to do all day."
How many hours do you usually do for core subjects?
@gustavus0013 for actual book work, 1-4 hours depending on the child and age and difficulty of the lesson that day. My 15yo may spend 3 hours on an Algebra 2 lesson. My 8yo may be done with his math lesson in 10 minutes.
As for "other" learning, that's our lifestyle, so every waking minute is spent on learning something interesting.
I wish I’d had a similar experience when I was a kid. The most I remember from school is being bullied for having special needs, and teachers who either ignored it or bullied me further. :(
I don’t dislike the concept of schools. Going somewhere where you can go to get information and ask teachers questions is a good idea. But the current western school system is completely flawed. It’s just too strict and rigid.
They discovered that you learn better when your moving, exercising and interacting. But instead kids are stuck at their desks sitting.
The curriculum at most schools is outdated and doesn’t teach proper life skills anyway.
I think school should be a place kids can go to interact with people, ask questions and advice from teachers and actually learn what they want to learn at their own pace.
czcams.com/video/Um2c9o25nfM/video.html
I have been saying for years that you could pull your kids out of "skool" after the 5th grade and the vast majority of kids would be just fine. Very few go on to be scientists, etc. and need further education. Basically after they learn reading, writing, and basic math, they can wing it from there.
That’s great that they balance freedom with responsibilities.
We pay over $1000 to the local public school we will never use. I can homeschool 3 children for less than that a year.
@C&J AFVets But you consider your time and effort to be of zero cost?
Only $1000 a year? Or do you mean month?
@@mirzaahmed6589 Most likely a month meaning +12K / year in property taxes
TRUTH IS THAT MOST OF THE POPULATION ARE MORONS AND IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL FOR SOME OF YOU DUMMIES TO HOMESCHOOL.
@C&J AFVets AMEN!!! I consider the years that I stayed at home educating my 4 children while surviving on a mechanic's salary with far greater satisfaction than moving up the career ladder. I probably would have gotten far more rest, for sure, lol!
But even if I could have been bringing home $100k a year during those years, it was worth FAR more to be there watching them grow and learn. And they have happy memories of their school years.
I'd be happy for vouchers so I can send my mechanically-inclined kid to a school with shop classes, football, drafting, engineering, etc. 90% of High School for me was being forced to take tests on stuff I had learned either on my own or in elementary and middle schools. The other 10% was stuff that I have NEVER used since. High school was a waste. I was a metal worker for 17 years and a recruiter for 8 years. What the HECK did I need to read "Catcher in the Rye" for?
I see your point, and agree to an extent but its interesting you used the example of Catcher in the Rye because the main character Holden hates school too
@@2bitmarketanarchist337 I didn't hate school. I did fine in college. High School is a prison where they force-feed you propaganda and heaps of useless stuff. It is a training ground for future socialists and a feeding trough for unions.
@@RyeOnHam I hear a lot of similar things about universities these days unfortunately
I love this idea. I struggled in school my whole life. I'm blind with some learning difficulties like ADHD so I always had trouble just sitting there and listening. As an adult, I love that I can learn what I want and have the freedom to study with few time constraints or requirements. I didn't fit the mold in school and the people who owned the public schools I went to never cared to help me learn by supplying large print books or teaching aid. When I want to school for the blind it got better, but they still weren't teaching me in a way I could learn best, which is hands-on. I feel that schooling needs a massive overhaul.
My daughter was unschooled from "grades" 5-10. She went to community college and got 3 degrees with a 4.0 and is in the process of transferring to a university. She applied to 37 colleges and universities and so far been accepted into 10, we are waiting to hear from the rest, 3 are Ivy League. Anything is possible!
how did this happened with out the whole mandatory thing they talk about and other things?
Public school is like a dirty public bathroom ,sure one can use it but do you really want to sit on that filth?
@William Giron go before you leave the house or hold it till you get back ...and wash your hands.
Doctor Song WELL SAID! You just have to visit any school for 1 whole day and you can see you wouldn’t want your kid in there
#DEEPESTQUOTE
“School is a place where people learn to be stupid” - John Holt
Very true.
For most of human history school wasn't a thing, it's merely a relic of the industrial revolution where people where herded like sheep to work in factories. We need a system where the child's creativity and freedom is valued above all.
It's a complex problem and an ideological approach won't help. Some aspects of unschooling might help people on the spectrum, but that doesn't entail that this approach will work with any child, anywhere in the world, given that some children want to become doctors, engineers, computer scientists, psychologists. Our education is stuck in the industrial era, and that needs a big overhaul. That doesn't mean that unschooling is a one-size-fits-all solution. We need to identify our goals, our values, and understand how to implement them respecting individual differences. Unschooling might be a solution for a subset of people (maybe not necessarily those who are deemed to have learning disabilities). Who knows? We need data.
Think twice before dismissing education just because you feel you haven't learnt much in school. You cannot possibly know what the alternative would have been.
5:30 "developing more social skills and responsibility" *half the kids in the scenes are just on their phones not talking with the others*
As someone who is homeschooled and unschooled, I've noticed that unschooling doesn't always work, it depends in the child, some kids need direction, and others don't. I was unschooled, and homeschooled. I had a set curriculum, but I also did a lot on my own, such as finding the curriculum I wanted and found best for myself, and my parents helped me when I didnt understand something, or if I needed some help with the curriculum. It is best to homeschool and unschooled, but again it depends on the kid.
I taught for 44 years and I get what these people are saying. However, I always told my students that school is not about learning facts and figures. It's about learning self-discipline and learning how to complete a task in a given time. I would love to see how these kids do when it is time to hold a job.
My late husband was unschooled from an early age,through to about 16. He was extremely intelligent, articulate and creative.. However....Upon entering adulthood/parent life with ZERO understanding of consequences or, action=reaction,he learnt alot of harsh realities. Especially when in some essence he had blend in to society..I think essentially it comes down to the support system you have in place,in addition to being shown by example the basics like manners and integrity,etc..
I mean, I agree and disagree. There are certain things that schools are good for that unschooling isn't. There is certain things that unschooling is good for that schools aren't. I see the benefits and disadvantages of both.
Don't see why there can't be a mix of both.
For example, teach history and personal finance (instead of math), Science and how to do a check book and look for jobs in school. Also, have other classes or activities that are optional and that students can choose between.
This video feels like a failed animal documentary when the director come back empty handed. "Sorry, we were not able to film the students in the act of studying...".
"studying?"
I never studied a day in my life, had all homework that I can ever remember done before the school day ended, and was in honor roll straight A's in all available advanced classes all of the way until my junior year of high school - when I dropped out
Studying is just repetition for those that need it. A striking amount of kids don't. If I had had access to more information, and more useful information, who knows where I'd have ended up.
I dont study. And im in public school, passing and working through. You can pass without studying.
Children learn by playing.....
All of it was "studying." They study the environment in which they live, and learn how to live there efficiently.
Parents who think kids playing video games is a sign of them working in the industry are deluding themselves honestly. It's good to have some freedom for kids but they also need some direction. Let then choose an area to learn about or a method of learning it (programming in Minecraft may be an way they like??) But don't just let them fuck around all day... Seems irresponsible , especially in a word where media companies monetize our attention span.
I did poorly in school. I was smart enough not to go to college. Now I'm 28 with no debt. Nice businesses, and I'm well off financially.
I always wondered how Edison only had a 3rd grade education. Faraday, an electrical pioneer and engineer also had a 3rd grade education. Yet we send our youth to colleges to understand their achievements. Yup, we are definetly dumber today.
Edison stole most of his "inventions" from others. Notably Nicola Tesla.
Edison was a con-artist but I get your point. School doesn’t make ultra-successful people.
Lol. All of Faraday's astounding achievements, spanning 20+ years of effort, can be learned in a couple of weeks worth of classes, and that's meeting every other day while worrying about the frat party on Friday night. Sorry, no. We spend time learning about already discovered knowledge because it is STUPENDOUSLY faster than "rediscovering" it on our own.
Not to mention the fact that you're only citing a couple of the extremely rare achievers that are at the absolute tippy-top of intellectual curiosity for the human race. Why didn't you cite all the never-famous, Joe 6 Pack guys back then who jerked around in a lab, discovered nothing, yet ended up poisoning themselves by playing with mercury...? Wouldn't those guys be a MUCH more realistic person to compare to for 99.99999% of us than a scientific giant like Faraday?
Lol Edison was nothing compared to tesla, but a genius is a genius regardless of academic merit.
They were educated through apprenticeships.
Well, unless you are disciplining your kids also in certain behaviors like regular Fitness, you're kids aren't going to be successful.
Because when I look at those kids, I see kids who aren't going to be successful in life unless you radically change some of their habits.
Almost ZERO kids who look like that in life have I seen become successful. They almost ALL end up mediocre and not successful.
A lot of people would disagree with everything that you just said.
Did you not watch the video? Those kids were outside being active for far longer periods than the average schooled child. Just because no one is stopping them from being on their phone, doesn't mean they are on their phones all day.
@@michellerohl2794 But it is likely that they *are* on their phone all day. If what I believe you implied was true (that the majority of kids that can freely use their phones wont be on it all day), then we wouldn't have hundreds of millions of kids playing minecraft or roblox.
@@ezioauditore7636 when kids are given unlimited access to something, it becomes boring after a while. Most kids that obsess about video games don't have unlimited access.
@@michellerohl2794 Video games are very diverse. If you get bored of say, Minecraft, then move on to Roblox. They have vastly different gameplay and thus different experiences. It's why you don't get bored of eating food
I strongly believe that the school system gives children a sense of responsibility and maturity to study for tests that will prepare them somewhat for jobs.
I don't use like 95% of the things I learned in school in my daily life so I would say no.
I understand parents being sceptical about the school system their children are expected to attend. In fact, I am somewhat envious of US citizens for their right to home school.
However (you felt this coming), much of what is shown here seems to be fraught with a hippy-dippy attitude toward teaching. I agree that much of what is taught in school is not important for most students, and that many teachers wast their time with much more. But there are opportunities to be missed when not "schooling" your children at a young age. The prime example for this is language acquisition. A person's ability to learn different languages decreases sharply with age, and there is an age (I believe it is usually around 13) after which a person is physically unable to learn to vocalise new sounds. Thus it would become impossible for such a person to speak a language without accent that used sounds foreign to his mother tongue.
Similarly, the ability to effectively learn decreases with age, making it much harder to learn new skills or concepts the older you get. I am sure most people will have seen the graphs showing this, it is a steep, steep decline until around 20 years or so of age. After that it still goes down, but at a much lower rate, but there isn't much to fall to.
Also, the people in this video stress that they want their children to go after their passions and interests. On the face of it, this is a perfectly noble sentiment. But there are at least two major objections:
1) Are we sure that their interests and passions will be all they need to lead a fulfilled live? If that were the case, I reckon there would be many more rock stars, professional skateboarders, or professional gamers around. I'm not saying you should completely disregard your children's interests, not at all. But you should not leave other important lessons by the wayside.
2) How do we know that the child even found his true passion or interest? To put it another way: Imagine a child was never exposed to some field of study, say paleontology. How would he possibly develop a passion or an interest in it? Most likely he wouldn't, unless by some chance coincidence or by learning about a related field. I am very doubtful that these parents can adequately expose their children to the breadth of human endeavours that would guarantee they know all the possibilities.
On the idea of children having freedom to do what they like all day, including just playing outside or video games: This is often thought of as some ideal way of raising children, probably because of some rather romantic notions. And to a large extent I agree, children should definitely be left to figure things out by themselves, including social relations and large parts of their environment. However (again!) I have often seen this coupled with a very lax or completely absent set of rules. I can't judge from the short clip how things fare in the school shown here, but in the long run children do not benefit from such circumstances. Children do need some (!) authority in their lives, some rules to abide by. These should be gradually reduced, so the child grows up into a self-reliant adult, but they do need to be there at the outset. The absence of authority figures and clear rules do breed all manner of problems for the children in the long run. We can all wish this wasn't the case, but the evidence is very clear.
I do not mean to defend conventional schooling. In fact, it usually stifles children's interests and passions at the expense of cramming useless or soon-to-be-forgotten information into their minds, and hardly exposes them to any idea of a fulfilling life at all. I do have my own ideas about how a school or education system should be run to benefit the children, but neither what is presented here (and in similar documentaries I saw a while back) nor what is offered in most schools is even close to the mark.
Didn't finish as your statement about language and new sounds is completely false. Same with the ability to learn any new skill after twenty. What a horrific thought given most doctors don't enter medical school until after that age and surgeons begin their training even later. This is the point I stopped reading what you wrote.
I'm not sure what you understood me to say, but to be clear: It takes much more time and effort to learn any new skill the older you get. If doctors could be reasonably trained at an earlier age that would make it much easier.
Obviously it is not impossible to learn anything new at any age, but it's not like medical school is considered a walk in the park.
Zersetzor In general I advise not to respond to anyone who begins with, "Didn't finish x" or any variation thereof. You wrote a very articulate and well-thought out response, and for the people who actually wish to learn and engage with those sorts of things, I think you'll find much appreciation- and with luck, actual discourse. It is a CZcams comment section though, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
To add to your actual point, I think a lot of the school choice movement and its related movements (such as this) are the first attempts at reevaluating the American education system. It's been declining steadily in quality for the last twenty years, and has reached a point where something drastic needs to be done as so many children and young people are simply washing out of the system altogether. Inevitably large-scale overhauls start with radical and sometimes wildly different ideas, but as time progresses they temper and begin to actually provide workable solutions. I'll be very interested to see how this unschooling thing develops in the next twenty to thirty years.
I think there are quite a few problematic statements here. Let me address what I believe is not correct and maybe I can be convinced otherwise.
You imply multiple times that by not being exposed to a somewhat traditional school children are not exposed to so many things that:
- Prevents them from being native-like-speakers in multiple languages
- Prevents them from finding their passion
- Prevents them from getting to know boundaries and rules
I believe that the first rule every human being needs to learn, before all else, is that actions have consequences. I learned that since I was probably 3 years old. If you get that into your child's brain pretty much everything else solves itself.
Will they be able to afford a living being a rock star or playing games? That's the kid's problem in a few years that they will need to solve. That alone will guide them through what they need to learn in order to have a fulfilling life. That is actually, quite the contrary to what is currently being thought to kids these days where parents and teachers tell their kids to pursue their dreams and everything will be alright. That obviously doesn't work. Just look at the state of millennials and what they think the world should look like. The answer to that problem, as it is to many others, is teaching responsibility.
I speak three languages and learned two of them after I was 12 years old living in an undeveloped country. Of course, I have an accent and probably can't speak like a native in both languages. Compare that to the average American, if you will. They learn Spanish and sometimes multiple other languages throughout their school years and all they can say is tacos and quesadillas, if that much. It is harder to learn as you grow old, but not that harder that it makes impossible or even undesirable. That is also true to anything else. A lot, if not the majority of scientific contributions were made by "old" people especially in the past where you would be considered old if you lived for 40 years.
You can get really good on anything if you dedicate yourself to it for 10 years. In an average life, we can say that conservatively, we have at least 6 to 8 periods like that which means that someone can master up to 8 things if they really want to. Once again, look outside and see how many masters in things you have out there? People that are called professionals nowadays, in general, can barely execute their flip burger routine correctly. Most Americans have no idea where North Korea is or what are the seven continents. Some even don't know who are the US founding fathers.
Lastly, what does it matter if they are exposed to all these things in an environment that will make them wait 18 years before they can pursue their paleontology passion? I can't remember 85% of what I saw in my 17 first years in school. It just doesn't matter. Why waste that time going through a standard curriculum only to throw it away after all that time? The problem with that approach is that kids go through things that should be fun in the first place, but are forced onto them without explanation or choice.
I'm 32 now and I love things I dreaded when I was younger. Who would imagine that I would try to understand how cells interact with one another and multiplicate themselves? Who would imagine I would try to understand how it is possible to land a rocket in a comet 10 years away from us. Nothing like that happened until I re-learned how to learn and how much fun it is. I wish I had the opportunity, as a kid, to have that feeling.
I know you mentioned that you are not in favor of the school system as it is, but to me, it sounds like you made a pretty good argument in favor of it.
@@arcuscotangens except that is nothing more than an old wives tale. But as Samuel Clemens said, it is much easier to fool someone than convince them they were fooled. Same crap is said about training dogs, "cant' teach an old dog new tricks." It is all just self limiting bullshit with know basis in reality.
And before someone takes this to the extreme, I'm not saying there isn't cognitive decline in older people, but they are generally much older. The human brain doesn't finish growing until the age of 25. How is it you're adding more neurons, making more connections, learning more things and you are less capable of learning?
Put simply, you wrote a whole lot of things that simply aren't true.
It is immoral to force money out of people to pay for other people's education. And piss poor education at that.
Fine. You don't have to pay for the children's schools in your area in exchange for them not having to pay your SS check to you in retirement... Deal? Not to mention, 20 or 30 years from now, don't you want to have a doctor to see when you're sick? Or someone to design a new car for you?
@@danh2716 You do realize most people watching this are Libertarian right? So the answer is EXACTLY, you should not have to pay for my retirement!
@@danh2716 Adult humans beings should save and invest their retirement accounts as they see fit. I don't want a forced investment in our pedophile run government. I'd rather invest in gumball machines and nickel arcades than our government war machine.
And 20 or 30 years from now when I want to see a doctor, I want a free market system such that prices for medical treatment are low and like any other service I can afford treatment. For major incidents with rare exotic treatment (accidents, illness) that is what insurance is for.
Exactly, taxation is theft.
Apply to have your citizenship revoked and leave the country
Without school, life is kinda boring because my parents work all day!
宮川アリシア
For you
--- THE FIVE QUESTIONS ----
by Larken Rose
1) Is there any means by which any number of individuals can delegate to someone else the moral right to do something which none of the individuals have the moral right to do themselves?
2) Do those who wield political power (presidents, legislators, etc.) have the moral right to do things which other people do not have the moral right to do? If so, from whom and how did they acquire such a right?
3) Is there any process (e.g., constitutions, elections, legislation) by which human beings can transform an immoral act into a moral act (without changing the act itself)?
4) When law-makers and law-enforcers use coercion and force in the name of law and government, do they bear the same responsibility for their actions that anyone else would who did the same thing on his own?
5) When there is a conflict between an individual's own moral conscience, and the commands of a political authority, is the individual morally obligated to do what he personally views as wrong in order to "obey the law"?
Michał Z. Your assuming morality has value.
@@darinmalone If you observe your own actions and are honest with yourself, then I'm sure you'll see that you think so as well.
Laws are just conviences for those in charge, if murder produced gold it would be legal, encouraged, and people would push for it as long as it was of a group that didn't support society.
Try reading: 'Natural Law and Natural Rights' by John Finnis, 'Taking Rights Seriously' by Ronald Dworkin, 'The Authority of Law' by Joseph Raz, and 'Is there a prime facie obligation to obey the law' by Smith, and 'In Defense of Anarchism' by Wolff.
Larken Rose is awesome :)
I was homeschooled until i was 18. My dad was a welder and i could weld since i was 12. I never could get algerbra. So at 18 i dropped out of "school" and got a farm job using my welding skills
And other skills i picked up. I can say what i have learned in a welding shop and just being a good ol country boy has tought me more then advanced chemistry or calculus could ever do. But letting kids play videogames all day. Pathetic. Somebody lied over a crumpled paper. K mon. If they tought them how to grow a garden or raise animals or build a play house, cook.something productive!!!. I would be all over it. But video games. They do nothing.
I know kids my age without drivers license and cant change or fix a flat!! Other than that i liked it.
Yall have a good day
I'm 19 and just getting my license within the next couple weeks. Didn't really have the time for it in HS and it took me awhile to learn how. I'd probably have been better off taking a path like yours, although I'm a poor welder and only a meh mechanic, so perhaps I'd be better off planting and harvesting produce lmao. I was also a poor math student.
@@2bitmarketanarchist337
Work hard man people will see you and pay you better its happened to me. And good luck
@@thenumerousfew1205 Thanks :)
How do you know it taught you more than chemistry or calculus? You could substantially enhance your career in welding and engineering if you learned to apply those disciplines.
@@andie5031 i find those jobs boring and montinus. Farming is never the same for very long. Right now we are building a new shop. In 2 months we will be planting. And after that we will be irritating. I like my job its not the same thing all the time. I had a job in a welding shop. I was bored to death same thing all day every day. It may pay more but i would rather enjoy my job then hate my boss. Did i answer your question???
How does unschooling help kids become adults and get jobs?
I know our system doesnt do that either.
The point is replacing one unpreparitave system for another is running in circles.
School should be a sorta internship program for life.
I get the unschooling thing is learning thru doing but what a child does is important.
How does a loosely structured system about playing with friends get them any closer to doing taxes than the current system?
"How does unschooling help kids become adults and get jobs? I know our system doesnt do that either. The point is replacing one unpreparitave system for another is running in circles. School should be a sorta internship program for life."
Can't you do all of that with vocational school, trade school, or on-the-job training? I don't see a need to force a kid into doing something that they'll probably be mediocre or worse at because they are doing something that they have no interest in doing.
"How does a loosely structured system about playing with friends get them any closer to doing taxes than the current system?"
They can all learn those skills eventually. The approach does not need to be one size fits all.
@@SayNoToDemocide1
"You can do all of that with vocational school, trade school, or on-the-job training."
No you cant because those are career specific. Skills needed to function in life cant just be learned by going to the park.
"There is no need to force a kid into doing something that they'll probably be mediocre or worse at because they are doing something that they have no interest in doing."
Agreed up to a point. I agree a positive approach to learning is ideal. But a wait n see strategy to learning only goes so far. A day will come when a child will need, not need to learn, but need in full some knowledge and by then it will be too late.
"They can all learn those skills eventually. The approach does not need to be one size fits all."
Correct, flexible and adaptive learning programs are better as they mold to a child's needs. But flexibility both requires some give, the ability to roll with punches. And also some resilience, the ability to remain firm.
A slow reader who needs time should be allowed time, while also attempts are made to spark interest in the written word. However, if a child is dragging too far behind, say unable to read a menu at age 14, a firm stick, metaphorically speaking, should be used where the carrot failed.
I admire the unschooling, wait n see approach. Its very appealing to believe a child will learn boring life things on their own.
I myself was a victim to this mindset. My parents home schooled me, gave me ample time to learn reading, writing and math. I only took to reading, and just barely. I cant spell anything other than common words and don't ask me to perform simple multiplication unless you have pen, paper, and a few minutes to let me count on my fingers to find my multiplication tables.
Being a starting barber does not need to learn about physics. Yes may be for being god among barber may be need it but not for regular start. Thing is we learn through communication and connection which is lost in schooling. That is why teachers pet us good students and delinquent are bad. Delinquent are delinquent because they don't want to be there. Also our school system is rigid many developed country have become more flexible and understanding schooling. But what needed is to evolve current system instead of abandoning them. You can tak certain principles from them and make new.
@@Mayurbhedru
Agreed, yes and very much so. I understsnd how dehumanizing the current system is. I learned that first time I watched pink floyd's The Wall.
But as far as the barbor is concerned. I understand a barbor doesn't need to know physics. But a member of a smart voteing population needs to know about it.
Part of being an adult in america is voteing. And uninformed holistic medicine touting adults who didnt learn about heard immunization or the energy retaining properties of carbon atoms is a problem for our scociety.
Its the kind of problem that leads to polio outbreaks and more hurricanes for out grandschildren.
Yes, our system sucks.
It needs a major overhaul.
Im on board with change, theres lots of good ideas to unschooling and i see it has a good direction.
But lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I was unschooled in the 90s. I graduated early and moved out in 1999. I got my first job and car at 16. I bought my 2nd car at 17 and I got an apartment 2 hours away from my parents. They never gave me a dime. I was completely self-sufficient and succeeded. I even got a $1,000 bonus in 2000, a pay raise and I moved up in the company. All at age 18. So yes, unschoolers can do well.
The only thing these big institutions teach is submission, group think and left wing indoctrination. Individual thought , common sense, the constitution and some trade (based on your interests and skills) should be in a curriculum. This unschooling is interesting and should be studied and pursued.
I'm not sure I understand the benefits of this. I agree that there are a ton of subjects that I had to learn in school that are totally useless and in a lot of cases taught by people who don't know how to engage young people to learn, but I don't see the advantages of not providing basic subject material for them to at least learn to prepare them for life in general. Even basic principals of math, English, and science would be better than just letting run around and do nothing all day.
I think instead there needs to be more emphasis on allowing parents to choose where their kids attend school so it can be clear where they're getting their education from.
Notice how the home schooling advocate is full of passion for what he does, sounds healthy happy and well adjusted? Compare that to the typical government bureaucrat
Here in Germany kids must attend school. No chance for home schooling. The police will pick kids up and bring them to school.
Every stupid person I know graduated high school and their horizon stopped that day. Being smart assures nothing. Knowing things you want to know is hard to do but easier with the www, at least for now.
Can we talk about how one of the kids is drawing a fursona? Yooo.
How are games like boggle and scrabble not educational? I agree with that parent. Many schools have games they can get out to have kids play and learn. I agree that kids learn more when they are having fun. I learned more about ww2 from watching tv shows than I ever learned in class at secondary school history class. Educational games/tv shows/ role playing/ experiment kits kids remember more because they are enjoying themselves. Hands on often gets better results than reading a book and worksheets.
emily cheetham I learned more French just by speaking and reading French than I did in a class in high school. Mind you that was my highest grade in high school
I used to teach a small private school. I used books but also games and songs to teach my fourth graders. I could never get in a position in public schools. Why? For one, most of the hires are "connected" to the district through family or politics. Second, most public schools don't want teachers who are too smart or creative or they make the rest of the staff look bad (I kid you not, I have seen that happen).
I learn more about my country history than i did in my school
most children learn their first wrdswithout formal education. The same principle can apply to all subjects. Rather than school just let your kid learn while they live their normal life
wrd
Cool in theory. Not true in reality.
Show of hands, who wants a surgeon that picked up their education while they lived their normal life?
Dan H Yep. Structure and learning from those trained and experience in something is important and not to be entirely discredited. Teachers aren’t the baddies.
@@danh2716 That's pretty much how surgery and all professions existed until the last hundred some years.
Bushrod Rust Johnson Yes, when those were terribly dangerous (to surgeon and patient), horribly inefficient professions.
Public school and university is structured wrong in my opinion
Lectures are out....
"Public school and university ARE structured wrong in my opinion." Sorry, the irony was just too grand to pass up.
Public schools* and universities* ARE
Public school and university IS
Checkpoint! 😎Class is now in session fool!
Don't you think showing up every morning to some mom's house who converted it into a "school" and interacting with only 5-6 other kids hampers their ability to develop social skills and expose them to different cultures and personalities? That is one thing that the traditional public school has over this type of learning environment.
When you're an adult in our modern economy, you do have to be able to teach yourself things at some point. Whether its a specific computer language or program, chances are you'll have to pick up some new skill or knowledge for a job you want. Nobody will hold your hand like in school, either. Also, it can be quite a shock to leave school and suddenly have no structure to your day, to have to set your own agenda and prioritize tasks.
That being said, the parents still have to be parents and make sure their kids are staying busy and learning, even if that learning is unstructured and self-determined (Like, have the tv and all digital gadgets off for a certain period of the day such as 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM). Additionally, all the bases need to be covered, so they should make sure their child understands the practical importance of learning each subject.
czcams.com/video/A0NM-xGEwDs/video.html
once funding is allocated via the government, the government controls that activity
Am I the only one who loves going to school and the structure?
School just prepares kids for actually living in society. Unschooling is essentially just what other kids do in their free time outside of school. They play and learn from playing just like these kids do. Do you people think only your unschooled kids play? Kids who get an actual education get exactly what unschooled kids get but they also get to learn how to function in society.
czcams.com/video/A0NM-xGEwDs/video.html
5:30 the teen is in the middle of stating how you have more opportunity to interact and develop social skills, yet no one in that moment is interacting. They are all either on the computer or heads down on their phones... Don't get me wrong. I'm an advocate of less structured learning.
This movement actually sounds really great. In all of my schooling so far, teachers have punished children for talking and rewarded those who were always quiet. I have always been a rule follower, so as a result I am a very quiet person. I feel I don't have a voice. I don't feel comfortable speaking in front of people and I answer a lot of questions with one word. Any time I speak, it sounds like dialogue from the movie the room. I also have recently found out I have Attention Deficit Disorder. I have a really hard time paying attention in class, and as a result my grades have suffered. If it weren't for the shitty public school system, I may actually have had a good education.
I think there are some things a child definitely needs to learn, but public schools usually do not give a child everything they need. All kids are expected to learn the same exact thing, the same exact way, and that’s not how it should be.
I agree with unschooling/homeschooling as long as they’re trying to tech their children things.
So, I guess the lesson here is that, there really isn't a "right" way for a child to learn, and that the form of education that is best suited for a child success, varies from child to child
I work in the public schools. Every day I see kids who are suffering from pointless "learning" and utter boredom.
High school was invented to keep kids off the streets once child labor laws came about, which is on the whole a good thing given the abuse potential, but the schooling method in place is torture for many.
To answer the title question: No.
Seriously, think about all the stuff you were taught in school and how little of it you use in the real world. Ask everyone you know what the quadratic formula is and see what happens, for example.
Hell, just watch an episode of Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader. All you have to do to win is answer questions from elementary school textbooks, and most people can't win.
Alternatively, go ask the engineer that designed the plane you're about to fly on if he learned everything he knows from sitting on a couch playing video games and surfing youtube...
@@danh2716
Um, the guys who invented the airplane were bicycle mechanics, so thanks for confirming my point.
Q B and, do we fly using those models of airplanes? Can your average joe successfully design a functioning airplane that is up to modern standards? Because that was the point.
@@moriahjmiller
You don't need to go to school to do engineering. I think that the history of the airplane proves that.
Q B Commercial airplanes are just shinier versions of what the Wright brothers flew on, right?
I always felt stupid because of school especially public school
It's almost fucking crazy how I just finished watching this video about tutors making banks in Hong Kong trying to push kids into universities few minutes ago, and all the kids in there have so much pressure studying for exams almost every waking moment of their life. And then we have this right here.... just a bunch of kids playing Roblox and whatever, and parents who don't think they need school at all.
What a world.
My cousin refused to go to school and his mom and my mom wanted to force him to go to school and he said to my mom auntie why do I have to go to school? To earn education and money he said I will make a lot of money when I grow up but I will never go to school. He f.. rich now chilling in Dubai so school is just waste of time.
Our schooling is the slowest thing to evolve with the times, and we wonder why suicide is such an issue for our youth.
5:28 I CAN GO TO SCHOOL AND PLAY SMASH ULTIMATE ALL DAY!??! Sign me and the rest of the world up.
Joey Trave once you hit the job market you'll reconsider xD
@@fuhreaks There is a lot of interesting and potentially useful things you can learn from browsing wikipedia.
the best gift from that freedom is responsability
These people act like just because a kid goes to a public school, it means they're somehow not allowed to pursue their interest or learn anything on their own. As if there's some kind of law against reading books that weren't assigned for a class, or using the internet, or taking private lessons in anything? It's like those people that get pissed off at public schools that don't offer sex education or that they can't offer religious education. You know, kids can still seek out and learn whatever they want in addition to what they get in school, right? A basic public school education is just a foundation. It's up to you to make sure you build a house on top of it.
Part of life is doing things you don’t want to do and school prepares you for that. These kids are going to get a job, their boss is gonna tell them to do something, and their gonna say “well I don’t really want to explore that right now”
No doing what you dont want to do doesnt have to be a part of life. It's what toxic schools indoctrinated into you
0:33 oh God is that a furry
*anthropomorphic animal
*I'm watching a dystopian nightmare being created while I'm living.*
maxjosephwheeler we already live in one,
That's overly dramatic. This is by almost any metric the greatest time to be alive. Videos like this are just suggest ways we could make things a bit better.
@VES SEV do you not have a social life outside of school? that _sucks_
im not sure you understand the question
So no, you didnt, but thats okay
Kids do need to be allowed to explore their passions and can learn a lot more that way. The problem is kids have zero sense of structure and very little self-control to be able to productively learn a wide range of things. Not to mention lots of kids need extra help to be able to learn certain areas.
As a future teacher and a mother how is the unschooling method going to prepare our youth for their future, particularly the school, Sudberry. How is this method of learning providing structure? How is it providing teaching a child that you don't always get what you want out of or in life and that's OK. We work around it, we learn and we move on. To me, I feel these students are going to learn how to want exactly what they want and when they want it and when it comes to their future careers I believe they're going to have a difficult time fitting in with society. Society is changing yes, but not as rapidly as this movement.
Did the little girl who was trying to figure out who crumpled her paper get what she wanted? They learn this hard fact through real life.
@@michellerohl2794 Err, that supports both sides of this argument.
Well, this is interesting. If schools were all a small business model like this one, would there be more individuality, freedom to learn specifics from a young age (e.g. Bill Gates 10,000 hours of programming by age 18), and competition between schools? Interesting.
I love this channel. I don't always agree with everything but I love it.
I have been a homeschooling dad for 12 years now. Out of 12 children, adopted and biological, my wife and I have applied a mix of unschooling, homeschooling, public schooling, and online schooling. Sounds crazy, I know. What I have learned is that education works best when it is tailored to the student's personality, needs, and interests. During the early years, up to about 12 years old it is critical to keep them out of the public school meat grinder, where they have adult authority figures making them question whether they are male, female, or "other". They need moral instruction, basic reading, writing, and math, and some science, all within strong loving relationships with family and community. During these early years, I have seen clearly that emotional security fosters a curiosity for things, which coupled with required basic skill-building fundamentals, creates a confident and adept student. Later, as the fundamentals have been secured, which includes critical thinking skills to sort out the B.S. going around in our culture, my kids have been given the option of choosing how to proceed with their education, including going to the state schools if they wish. The advantage of that is mostly to get more structure in their education, which I believe should be part of their training for success in this world. For those of my kids that have chosen this option, some of them have felt a bit like outsiders, but we all find that their academic performance has met or exceeded public school expectations. And best of all, they have learned from us that they must educate themselves, seeking information about what they do not understand, and not waiting around for someone to tell them what to think. -Oh, and our state requires yearly standardized testing to make sure they progress in their knowledge base. Every year they smash the curve, in spite of our shortcomings when it comes to structured instruction at home.
Now we have our second wave of kids approaching college years and I am VERY apprehensive about sending them to university. As far as I can tell, the state universities have become obsessed with left-wing, even Marxist, indoctrination, and are more concerned about selling students an overpriced "University Experience" than offering a high quality education. Unless my kids are desiring a field of work that requires postsecondary qualifications, like engineering, I will recommend to them that they do NOT go to a university, the exception would be a well-grounded Christian College. And the online schools that are available these days are a great option for most degrees that a professional may need for their career.
Regarding what is shown in the video, I do think a school such as this ought to have more structure, and NO video games, unless they are learning to code by it or something educational like that. Young students are fine without heavy structure, but as the students age and cognitively develop, more structure is important and effective.
If you have taught your children how to think critically, you have nothing to fear from college.
The smartest kid in our school started homeschooling. Before he left he sold hella candy to other students and made a lot of money. Then made himself a computer. That dude was a legend!!
The valedictorian from my engineering college was homeschooled and a very popular and cool guy
My parents "home schooled" me until the 9th grade. I really just taught myself as my parents completely ignored me. I remember sitting outside in the yard all summer teaching myself to spelling and math. I went to public school when I hit the 9th grade and the high school tested me to see which grade to place me in and I hit college level in every subject. I would only homeschool my kids if there was a big community to keep them socialized. I would never homeschool them if I thought they wouldn't develop socially.
...school slowed me down ...I was infinitely curious and followed the path of interest with zeal
...I always saw school as a babysitting device with benefits, a chemistry lab, a swimming pool to dive into, an expert in a field of my interest to speak with
...as I matriculated into the real world, I noticed much illiteracy as other kids opted out and just played with each other
...I am appreciative to have lived in times when you could learn much
...Today, we have the internet and instant access to facts and systems analysis, BUT, most are satisfied to text endlessly and just play with the other kids
...conclusion: you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink (you can't make backbone for a jellyfish either)
I was lucky to get 1 day a week of this same concept while in elementary school. It changed my life forever and was one of my favorite times of learning, and really showed me the happiness and success pursuing your passions can bring. We don't have to pull kids out of schools, just give kids them the opportunity to learn something they WANT to learn and develop a skill of their choice.
This works so much better and school shouldn't even be forced by law.